H.B. 48 Criminal and Juvenile Justice Changes

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What the bill does

This bill amends statutory provisions related to the criminal and juvenile justice system.

Hearings and debates

• Jan 28, 2026 House Judiciary Committee
• Feb 2, 2026 House Judiciary Committee▶ Watch
  Transcript (49 turns)

  1. Committee chair1:32:09

     a bill in law enforcement committee in just a few minutes. So we'll, we will move agenda item, we'll go to item number, uh, six, which is, uh, house bill four eight criminal and juvenile justice changes from Representative Libe. There's also a first substitute online representative, libe, the time is yours.

  2. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:32:28

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I apologize to all those who are, are waiting for me to present this bill, but in order to have Representative Clancy chairing, we needed to switch up the agenda a little bit. So HB 48 was an interim committee bill, and we worked on that and heard it at a couple of different hearings. Uh, and we had some good discussion there. Uh, and so just to remind everybody really quickly, uh, it, when we passed the definition of recidivism about three or four years ago, we indicated at that time that we would be revisiting, um, within a few years the definition of recidivism. And, uh, and so because of that, this bill contemplates the definition of recidivism. But as I'm speaking to the substitute, the first substitute, um, this doesn't significantly change the definition of recidivism, but it does. Uh, and, and there's a reason for that. It actually preserves the definitions so that it is comparable to other states, but it also adds on some additional data requirements that CCJJ will follow so that we can keep track of criminal activity in the state and it can inform our policy making. And that is really important. So we won't include it in the definition per se, but it will be additional data points that we will be collecting per the bill. And then it also works on the definition of juvenile justice, um, recidivism. Another change that it does is it gives some discretion to the courts. Currently, if an individual is 18 or older, um, and is causing significant disruption in, uh, under the custody of JJ Ys, there is discretion to, um, motion to move an individual to, um, the Department of Corrections for supervision. And this just gives discretion to the courts in addition to JJ to JJYS to move individuals to supervision and the, um, in the adult system. So it has been indicated to me, we, I've done a lot of work with CTJJ to make sure that this bill has broad consensus. There are some lingering concerns out there, um, but there, uh, there was a, a vote to support in concept. So, um, I'm still in discussions, but since this was a committee bill file, it's a low bill number. I'd appreciate the committee's support to move forward with my commitment that I will continue to work with the stakeholders to ensure that we have a good consensus on, on what this bill does. And with that, I'm open to questions.

  3. Committee chair1:35:15

     Thank you Chair Libe. We'll go back to the committee for discussion and questions on HB 48. Okay. Seeing none, we'll go to the public for comm, is there anyone in the room that would like to speak to HB 48. All right, we've got three. Perfect. Come on up. And do we have anyone online? Jonathan. Darren Adams. Darren Adams. Okay. All right. Chief Ross.

  4. Tom Ross, Executive Director, Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice1:35:43

     Thank you. Thank you. Chair, uh, chairs, committee members. My name is Tom Ross. I'm the Executive Director of the Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice. And I'm here speaking on behalf of CCJJ today and wanted to let representative Liz me know I've appreciated the conversations. I've, I've appreciated that trying to find the right, the right recidivism standards, the right data that we're collecting so that we can be the best informed as possible as a state to be able to, to see what we're doing and make those adjustments and changes is extremely important. And to the point that she made in her opening comments, we were talking about adding more to the standard metric that we all landed on back in 2023, uh, in the working group that we had. So I think everyone recognizes that we need to do more and can do more. The challenge, which has kind of delayed at least making a one metric that has all these pieces in it, is we don't have the capability currently to be able to do that. And I think this language says that we can, we can keep our standard metric that, so we can compare with other states. We can use it as a, a metric within our state. And then as the capability improves, which we're working on, we can add other forms of data and metrics. So appreciate that work. There is a, a group with, uh, some sheriff's association that's ongoing with JJYS conversation and we'll see where that leads. Thank you.

  5. Committee chair1:37:15

     Thank you Chief Ross. Welcome. Thank you.

  6. April Graham, Director, Juvenile Justice and Youth Services1:37:24

     Hi, my name is April Graham. I'm the Director of Juvenile Justice and Youth Services with the Department of Health and Human Services. My intent is to provide some information and share some concerns, um, regarding this bill while maintaining neutral to the, to the bill. We recognize there's been a lot of work that's gone into some of the pieces, but there's still some work we believe could be done. Um, starting about line four 30, I'm not, I just wanna share, I'm not aware of any research suggesting moving a 18 or 19-year-old to the adult prison improves recidivism. In fact, we found, uh, decades of research consistently showing that transferring youth during that developmental window increases subsequent violence and increases risk to recidivism younger population in the prison experience the highest rates of institutional violence. We've seen this play out in Utah. The last few kids that we've sent over early, we had two involved in stabbings very quickly as they moved over to the prison. Um, so a delay in transfer until age 25 ensures that the adult system receives immature condition and inmate equipped to serve their time successfully. Rather than an impo, an impulsive youth forced into gang survival mode. The current statute is not an exempt from accountability. It is highly regulated, conditional stay in the juvenile system. There is a safety valve currently in place. If a youth is not amenable to treatment, poses a security rest that can be transferred immediately. Um, I just wanna say one more thing, just that, um, in the juvenile system, we front load programming, they're getting a lot of intense and treatment, participating in school, things like that. Some of those things come later in the, in the prison system. And I also brought my colleague Amanda Alma, she maybe she could speak to any questions she works with, uh, correctional Health.

  7. Committee chair1:39:15

     Thank you. Thank you. April, there's a couple questions. I think there's two hands on line and we'll go to Representative Acton first.

  8. Rep. Clancy Acton1:39:23

     Thank, thank you. Um, I wondered, so you said age 25 would be ideal, um, to transfer to an adult, but what about, um, what do you do with that individual between 18 and 25?

  9. April Graham, Director, Juvenile Justice and Youth Services1:39:37

     Where are they held during that? So currently they're held in our system from um, 18 to 25 5. But physically where in the System? In a juvenile justice secure facility. So they're incarcerated with us. Um, they're not allowed to leave. They participate in programming, they're mandated to, to participate in programming. And if they're not willing to do so, then we will transfer them to the prison. But meanwhile, they do have potentially influence on those who are younger. Do They Actually, our system is a lot older than you would probably imagine in our secure facilities. We do have a younger male unit. Um, the youngest person I have there is 13 and actually there for a murder charge. Um, but they are segregated in a different unit. There's very few of them. Most of our population is 17 and up.

  10. Committee chair1:40:33

      Okay. Thank you. Thank you Representative Acton. We'll go to chair. Livy has a question.

  11. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:40:39

      Yes, thank you. So currently JJYS does have discretion to move individuals and has moved into, moved individuals. Um, all that this bill does is allow the court system, the judge to also, um, move an individual if they see fit. Yes. It's also very confusing with the, um, the way that the, the old system was, um, this was put in place just so we had a, a little more, more discretion and really looking at a person in their amenability to the system. We often have these kids housed in our detention facility for years as they go through this adult process. We have a really good idea who's amenable and who's not, um, moving forward. And I think there's two different things in this Bill. You have that detention provision as well that I think you were, you were trying to fix a, a piece where they're housed with us while they go through the district court, um, proceedings and gives us an ability to move them over to the jail if they become violent. But the way it's written right now, it doesn't quite fix that. Um, have you looked at the first sub? Yes. That was language directly from You. It, it, it doesn't still fix it. Well, I'm happy to hear further language from you. Thank you.

  12. Committee chair1:42:00

      Alright, thank you Chair Lobe. Um, is there any questions online? I thought, I thought I saw two hands that was representative er has a question for you. Uh, director, representative ox here. The time is your,

  13. Unknown speaker1:42:12speaker not certain

      Yeah, thank you. Um, okay. Thank you. Yeah. Um, so I'm just wondering, this sounds like if if you know someone is under 25, then they would have the ability to move them over. It sounds like they already do a little bit. So I don't really know what this would change except, um, you know, e even if they're not with the 13 year olds or the under eighteens, I would actually like to know how it split up. Uh, Yeah, we Are influence, those populations are still enough that, you know, they're wanting to be moved and it sounds like perhaps they're not being moved for some reason right now. So, um, this sounds like another way to get that done. And, you know, could it be out of the normal process if for some reason, you know, there's, there's an issue and the influence on the other ones that aren't, you know, having so much resistance to the, to their treatment. So, I dunno, it just seemed like we were focusing on the one person moving to the adult and the influence on, on that person being moved to the adult population instead of the current influence that they're having on everyone else who might be more amenable to the normal process.

  14. April Graham, Director, Juvenile Justice and Youth Services1:43:44

      Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. Um, we do split up these individuals, uh, and try to make sure that we're keeping them in similar age groups again. Um, like I said, you know, currently I have 137 kits that are in our secure facility. I have 30 of them that are 18, 19 that are 18. I have 23 that are 20, uh, three that are 21, 3 that are 22, 3 or five more that are 23. I don't have any above that. Um, we try to make sure that they are in similar age groups and risk. Um, also another thing with reform efforts in Utah, um, the risk that we get on young people coming into our secure facilities on average is about nine and a half felonies. It's increased about 113% since before reform. So the kids that we have are pretty significantly high in risk. These kids that are provisionally housed, a lot of 'em know they have a lot to lose, and they're probably some of our best behaved kits. Um, currently I feel like the law is working the way it's intended, and we do our best to make sure that we're not allowing that, uh, contagion to happen, just like we see the problem with the contagion in the prison system as well. I appreciate that. Do you have any numbers on how many people have been referred to the adult population over the last five years? So I think this law's only been in effect for, I wanna say four years. Um, I know we did, we referred seven in the last probably year and a half.

  15. Committee chair1:45:26

      Okay. Thank you. Thank you representative. Er, I think that is all the questions. Um, Nate. Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry. Just all the questions for, for April. Okay. Thank you. Oh, sorry. No, no, sorry. All right. Thank you.

  16. Lacey Singleton, Attorney, Salt Lake Legal Defender Association1:45:50

      Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Lacey Singleton. I'm a criminal defense attorney with Salt Lake Legal Defender Association, and I, over the course of my career, I have represented numerous juveniles charged with murder and aggravated murder. I currently represent a 17-year-old charged with aggravated murder. I'm only here to address the provisional housing aspect of this bill. Um, my concern, um, really, uh, comes down to some practical implications of what I think this change could result in. If we are allowing the courts to make the decision as to where an individual is being housed. First of all, I think that, um, what you would likely see is that plea negotiations in these cases would likely come down to, um, negotiations on, it would focus on placement of the individual as opposed to the issues in the case itself. Um, and, and that could frankly result in, in more trials of cases that potentially did not need to go to trial, because I could envision a scenario in which, uh, an offer is made to plead to a murder instead of an aggravated murder, but with a stipulation to prison. And I don't think that, um, any defense attorney representing a 17-year-old would want to see their client stipulate to go into prison instead of, uh, secure care. And so, um, I think you would likely see, um, more judicial resources expended, and that would have an impact on both the, uh, court, but also if the victims, by dragging out a process that should otherwise be, um, you know, potentially resolved. I also think that sentencing hearings could also come down to looking like a trial in which we are trying to educate the court about what, um, where an individual should be housed and what services are available. And that would, again, drag out this process. I also have concerns about the ability for prosecutors to circumvent the judge's decision by allowing, uh, them to move the board, uh, to ask the board for a transfer. And again, I think that, you know, there already is this process in place in which, uh, JGYS can transfer an individual currently housed without any kind of hearing. And, and I think there would be some due process concerns raised with a prosecutor's request to the board and how that would implicate somebody's rights at a hearing. And again, uh, juvenile secure care is effectively juvenile prison and, and, uh, prison is, is not, uh, a place that makes anybody better. It makes them worse, and especially young, young kids. And, um, they, they certainly are not, uh, they, they're actually have more freedom in a prison than they do in secure care from what I've seen in my career.

  17. Committee chair1:48:03

      Thank you. You have one question? Yes.

  18. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:48:05

      Uh, for you from Chair Libe. So actually the, the, I I'm confused. So I think you said that JGYS can move people without any kind of, what did you say?

  19. Lacey Singleton, Attorney, Salt Lake Legal Defender Association1:48:19

      My understanding is that currently if an individual is housed in secure care, um, under this provisional housing aspect, that if there is a, if, if there is an issue, um, with their behavior or there's concerns about their, their presenting a danger that they, they can move the individual to, they, they can request that. And that happens more quickly than it would be if the, under this bill that the prosecutor could request that from the Board of Pardons, and that there would need to be a hearing as to that, and that, again, would likely result in some due process issues with respect to whether or not that individual is represented at a hearing in, in terms of the board and, and, and what that hearing would look like. So

  20. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:48:56

      Just to be clear, I actually put language in my bill for JGYS to make that a smooth process. Currently, they have to go before court in order to move an individual from secure care to UDC. So that is not correct, but I just wanted to make sure I heard you correct. Thank you.

  21. Committee chair1:49:15

      Thank you. All right. Thank you, chief.

  22. Nate Mutter, Chair, Law Enforcement Legislative Committee1:49:20

      Thank you chair. Uh, committee. Uh, my name is Nate Mutter. I'm the, uh, I'm representing now the, uh, the Law Enforcement Legislative Committee, to which I'm the chair. Uh, our committee does support this bill. Um, uh, a specific piece of this bill, our, our, one of our working groups within our committee, uh, approached representative Libe on, on a, beyond a policy change. And, and we understand there's differing opinions to that. Um, what, what the, the issue was, uh, when we have, uh, someone who's nearly 18, 17-year-old who commits an aggravated murder that is the worst we can argue crime, uh, to commit. And, and it, uh, seriously victimizes the family of, of the, uh, the person that was shot and killed, and all, all our working group was asking was to allow a judge to make a determination, uh, where to sentence that individual, uh, for detention purposes, um, if the person was convicted after they turned 18. Uh, so if, if they're an adult at the time that, that the case is adjudicated, allow the judge to make the decision based on the facts of the case based on on the victim testimony, the, you know, anything that goes into that where the judge believes the best place for that, um, individual, uh, is housed, uh, after conviction, uh, for, so speaking to that, that's, that's what we ask for. Uh, we appreciate the representative for doing that and we support the bill. Thank you.

  23. Committee chair1:50:59

      Thank you, chief. Welcome, Pam.

  24. Pamela Vickrey, Director, Youth Defense Office1:51:02

      Thank you. Uh, thank you Pamela Vickery. I am the Director of Youth Defense Office. And first I wanna just say thank you to Representative Livy. I know you've been getting a lot of feedback with regards to this, and you're trying to hear all the different perspectives. This is a very nuanced area of our system. Um, and I only wanna talk about the detention piece and the provisionally housed. I appreciate all the changes to the recidivism language. Um, the, I wanna make it very clear we are talking about two distinct and separate populations of kids. The language with regards to detention on 360 2 and 5 0 7 is for kids that are not subject to transfer to the adult system. They are kids that are just your regular kid. What this does, by removing the language about using jail as an alternative, is it makes it so that if you had someone who committed a trespass at 16, but they don't get referred to court until they're 17 in one day, the court can now use jail as the detention instead of, um, instead of the detention center. That previously was something that existed so that we didn't have the contagion effect that I think Representative Ox and Representative Acton discussed earlier. But detention has done an incredible job of being able to separate those populations and create older age ranges. This makes it so that you could make it, you could use jail for someone who committed an offense at 16, but just because it didn't make it to a prosecutor's office till 18, now they're subject to the jail versus the detention center. Um, we wouldn't use jail or the jail for younger kids with murder traders without going in front of a judge and having a significant conversation with regards to the direct file. I'll just save quickly and I know I'm out of time. Um, JJYS can move them right now without anything, if they can do it administratively. And that's the way that the law is. This makes it so that we will be having many retention hearings at the district court level. We will be going in and arguing about, is the juvenile facility better equipped to deal with this kid or the adult facility? Right now, it is automatic. You go to the juvenile facility unless you mess up and if you mess up, JJYS can move you the same day. This will make it so that we have to then request a hearing with the Board of Pardons, wait several months to get the hearing, go in and have the argument, and then they can move them. The system is working right now. They have the ability to move them if they're not acting well and taking advantage of the benefits of the programming within the juvenile system. Thank you so much, and I promise to work with you on any language representative Liz b if it's helpful.

  25. Committee chair1:53:17

      Thank you, representative or, uh, chair. Liz has a question for you

  26. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:53:21

      And Pam, I, we talked about this in the interim, and I never did hear from you, so I would appreciate you reaching out if you have some concerns, because certainly I've always been willing to listen to you. Um, uh, Brett Peterson approached me about six months ago and, and, um, the new director was with him, and they asked me to put language in this bill to create and facilitate that ability for them to move somebody. So they said that currently they have to go before a judge in order to move somebody. So I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but happy to talk with you about that online. Thank you. Yes,

  27. Pamela Vickrey, Director, Youth Defense Office1:53:55

      And I appreciate that. And I do think that Juvenile Justice Oversight Committee, we did try, we did send, um, information and concerns, but I agree that I Will reach out to you. I understand those. Thank you.

  28. Committee chair1:54:05

      Okay. Um, that will wrap up our comment, uh, our public comment in person. We'll go. We have two, uh, individuals online. We have Darren Adams and Mr. Seth Stewart. We'll go first to Mr. Adams. Just as a reminder, if you could just turn your camera on and just share your name, where you're from, and if you're representing any organizations. Thank you, Mr. Adams. The time is yours.

  29. Darren Adams, Chief of Police, Cedar City Police Department1:54:26

      Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. Can you hear me okay? Yes, sir. Thank you. Uh, Darren Adams, uh, chief of Police down in Cedar City. Just briefly, I'll reiterate a little bit of what Mr. Mutter said. Uh, as you probably know, we had an incident in Cedar City a year and a half ago with, uh, two young men who were housed in secure care. One, uh, 18 years old, uh, 17 years old, when he committed the, uh, aggravated murder up in Draper of two individuals. Uh, we responded out there because these two had assaulted the three staff members. Um, I happened to be there with my crew, got there, and was able to see firsthand the problems that can come from, uh, a juvenile who has committed such a crime and is now housed with other juveniles of lower offenses. Um, there was no remorse there. Uh, by the grace of God, these, uh, three staff members, um, two of which were severely hurt, uh, were not hurt worse. And so, um, lines 4 33 to 4 38, just re uh, reinforcing what Chief Mutter said. Um, it's not a given, obviously, it's not something that happens automatically. It does give the district judge the ability to sentence these, uh, people, um, and these offenders to which, in my opinion, in this particular case, that's where they belong. They didn't belong in secure care. And, and so just want to, to reinforce that and ask the committee to support this bill. Thank, Thank you.

  30. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:55:48

      We'll, now go to Seth Stewart online.

  31. Seth Stewart, resident1:55:52

      Yeah, so I mainly have due process concerns with this bill.

  32. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:55:54

      Uh, Mr. Stewart, can you, before you make your comment, can you state your name, where you're from, and who you represent?

  33. Seth Stewart, resident1:56:03

      No worries. I know the drill. Yeah. So I'm Seth Stewart from American, representing myself. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to speak on this bill,

  34. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:56:12

      Where are you located?

  35. Seth Stewart, resident1:56:13

      Uh, American Fork. Okay, go ahead. So, um, yeah, just, just mainly due process concerns of the ability to reallocate, uh, defendants to a different, uh, prison facility. A different, uh, excuse me, a different incarceration facility just on the basis of an administrative decision. And furthermore, the, uh, the use of further of, of prior arrests in that as opposed to requiring, uh, proof of conviction, for example, now that that seems to, uh, apply in the face of certain protections against, uh, uh, double jeopardy and so on, I, I think a jury should be involved in that decision making process. If they're gonna re-sentence. So urge you to oppose this bill. Thanks.

  36. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:57:02

      Thank you, Mr. Stewart. That concludes public comment. We will now go to the Committee for committee action. Is anybody stand?

  37. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:57:25

      Okay, Representative or chair Liz Bee. I'd Like to move that we adopt first substitute.

  38. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:57:31

      Okay. So the motion is to adopt the first substitute. Would you like to speak to that motion?

  39. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:57:36

      Yes. I heard a lot of concerns from all of the members of, um, well, CCJJ and I responded to those. Those are in the first substitute. Um, there are some lingering concerns, and again, I'm happy to look at those as we move to the floor, but I'd appreciate the committee support.

  40. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:57:59

      Okay. Is there any other comment or debate from the committee? Seeing none place the motion. So the motion is to adopt the first sub to HB 48. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Is that Representative Miller?

  41. Rep. Michael Miller1:58:20

      The sub? The sub? Yes. I support the sub. Okay.

  42. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:58:23

      So that I, I'll rule that motion passes unanimously. We'll go back to represent or chair Liz b

  43. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:58:31

      I'll make the motion that we favorably recommend first substitute HB 48.

  44. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:58:35

      Okay, thank you. The motion is to favorably recommend first sub HB 48.

  45. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:58:40

      Would you like to speak to that motion? I think a lot has been said. I think I've said that I'm willing to work to, to, um, continue to alleviate concerns and appreciate the committee's support. Thank you.

  46. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:58:52

      Thank you. Do we have any other input from committee members? Representative Miller?

  47. Rep. Michael Miller1:58:59

      This is a much better time to pipe up. Sorry about that. Uh, no, I just want to, um, uh, uh, commend the sponsor of the bill. Um, even though like this is a no, this bill has come a long way, and I, I want to acknowledge that there's some very positive changes. Um, I'm, my, my vote is informed by the JJYS, uh, a testimony. Um, but, uh, but I, I'm, I'm optimistic that I think that, uh, consensus could be reached. So I just wanted to explain my vote and, and not just, uh, uh, seem like I'm, I'm voting against substitutes for no reason, uh, trying to clarify that here. Anyway, thank you.

  48. Rep. Nelson T. Abbott (presiding)1:59:35

      Thank you. Seeing no further lights, we'll go back to the, I guess both the sponsor and the motion maker for any, I'll waive She waives. We'll place the motion. And let's do a roll call. Vote. I guess I need to restate the motion. Sorry, I catch you off there. So the motion, just so everybody's clear, is to favorably recommend HB 48 for seven Representatives Act. Yes. Yes. Lube? Yes. Millard, no. Thompson? Yes. Hold on. Clancy. Aye. Gracious. Sorry. Trying to get my video. Yes, Libe Aye. And Abbott Aye.

  49. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee (presiding)2:00:39

      Seven one. That motion passes seven to one with Representative Miller voting in the negative. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thanks for your patience. I'm sorry. Senator Harper, please come for me. I did not realize that was gonna be such a long discussion. I apologize to the committee and to Representative Jack and represent, and Senator Harper who are here to present. Um, so we'll first and thank you to the committee. Um, okay. So we're going to SB 35 amendments to Interdisciplinary Parental Representation pilot program.

• Feb 10, 2026 House floor debate (day 22)▶ Watch
  Transcript (3 turns)

  1. Speaker (presiding)1:56:16

     First substitute house bill 48 criminal and juvenile justice changes by Representative Libe. This bill heard in judiciary with a vote of 7 1 3.

  2. Rep. Christine F. Watkins1:56:27

     Representative Watkins Motion to circle

  3. Speaker (presiding)1:56:31

     Is a circle. All in favor say aye. Aye. A opposed say no. Motion carries. The bill is circled. Madam Marine Clerk

• Feb 17, 2026 House floor debate (day 28)▶ Watch
  Transcript (10 turns)

  1. Speaker (presiding)1:11:10

     substitute HP one. Go ahead. Or sorry. HB 48. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Until that motion passes, the bill's been encircled and before the body for its consideration. You Representative Libe.

  2. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:11:24

     Thank you Mr. Speaker. HB 48 does just a few things. So three years ago this, this body passed a definition of recidivism with language that said that we would revisit that definition and that this is the year that we intended to do that. And so this bill expands the definition of adult recidivism. It creates the definition of juvenile recidivism and it makes a change. So if an individual is charged with aggravated murder when they're 17 and convicted when they are 18, currently, if you are in, um, secure care, which is juvenile justice, um, if you are incarcerated with juvenile justice, it can be between the ages of 13 and 25. But with this bill, we would allow a judge upon a motion to consider whether to place an 18-year-old who is convicted of aggravated murder in adult prison, or to keep them in secure care. It's a very narrow change. There was a prominent group in Utah who had expressed opposition to the bill publicly online, but they have changed their position to neutral with the bill. Oh, and I need to phone a friend. Representative Gricius

  3. Speaker (presiding)1:12:53

     Motion to adopt First sub. Third sub. Thank you Representative Gricius. This, that motion is in order, which I to speak to it? Nope. Thank you. Representative Gricius. Representative Liz. And on the motion to adopt third substitute on H 1 48. Under your name.

  4. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:13:06

     Thank you Mr. Speaker. So I just presented on the third sub. That's what the third sub does.

  5. Speaker (presiding)1:13:11

     Thank you, representative Libe.

  6. Rep. Stephanie Gricius1:13:13speaker not certain

     Would you like to just tell us the difference between the two?

  7. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:13:16

     Um, so it removes some language that a judge could determine for anybody over the age of 18, whether they serve insecure care or in prison it removed that language.

  8. Speaker (presiding)1:13:28

     Thank you. Representative. Uh, libe Discussion to the motion to adopt third substitute HB 48. Seeing none. Representative gracious waive summation has been waive. We'll go ahead and place the motion. The motion will be forced. The house adopt third, substitute HB 48 under representative Lizzie B's. Name. All in favor say aye. A. Any opposed? Will that motion passes? The bill is substituted and before the body for further consideration. In fact, you Representative Libe, anything else on presentation? Done. Thank you. Thank you Representative Libe. Uh, discussion and debate on, uh, the on third substitute HB 48. See none. Back to you, representative Libe for summation.

  9. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:14:08

     I'll waive. Thank you. Summation has been waived.

  10. Speaker (presiding)1:14:09

      Voting will now be open on third substitute HB 48 Ivory. Would you like to vote? Listen, seeing all present Representative Monson, seeing all present him voted voting is now substitute. HB 48 passed this body with 56 yes votes. 14, no votes be sent to the Senate for its consideration. Madam Marine Clerk Per substitute house Bill 3 48.

• Feb 17, 2026 House floor debate (day 28)▶ Watch
  Transcript (12 turns)

  1. Speaker (presiding)1:12:53

     Motion to adopt First sub. Third sub. Thank you Representative Gricius. This, that motion is in order, which I to speak to it? Nope. Thank you. Representative Gricius. Representative Liz. And on the motion to adopt third substitute on H 1 48. Under your name.

  2. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:13:06

     Thank you Mr. Speaker. So I just presented on the third sub. That's what the third sub does.

  3. Speaker (presiding)1:13:11

     Thank you, representative Libe.

  4. Unknown speaker1:13:13speaker not certain

     Would you like to just tell us the difference between the two?

  5. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:13:16

     Um, so it removes some language that a judge could determine for anybody over the age of 18, whether they serve insecure care or in prison it removed that language.

  6. Speaker (presiding)1:13:28

     Thank you. Representative. Uh, libe Discussion to the motion to adopt third substitute HB 48.

  7. Speaker (presiding)1:13:36

     Seeing none. Representative gracious waive summation has been waive. We'll go ahead and place the motion. The motion will be forced. The house adopt third, substitute HB 48 under representative Lizzie B's. Name. All in favor say aye. A. Any opposed? Will that motion passes? The bill is substituted and before the body for further consideration. In fact, you Representative Libe, anything else on presentation? Done. Thank you. Thank you Representative Libe.

  8. Speaker (presiding)1:13:58

     Uh, discussion and debate on, uh, the on third substitute HB 48. See none. Back to you, representative Libe for summation.

  9. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:14:08

     I'll waive. Thank you. Summation has been waived.

  10. Speaker (presiding)1:14:09

      Voting will now be open on third substitute HB 48 Ivory.

  11. Unknown speaker1:14:56speaker not certain

      Would you like to vote? Listen,

  12. Speaker (presiding)1:15:03

      seeing all present Representative Monson, seeing all present him voted voting is now substitute. HB 48 passed this body with 56 yes votes. 14, no votes be sent to the Senate for its consideration. Madam Marine Clerk Per substitute house Bill 3 48.

• Feb 24, 2026 Senate Judiciary, Law Enforcement, and Criminal Justice Committee▶ Watch
  Transcript (40 turns)

  1. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee45:24

     Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee HB 48 expands the definition of recidivism for the adult system, while also keeping requirements for agencies and CCJJ at a minimum. It creates a definition in code for juvenile justice for recidivism, and it also includes a really narrow change that says that if you are 17 when you commit capital murder and you are, and you are convicted or charged when you're 18, that, um, that a motion can be made and a judge can decide if you should be placed in secure care in the juvenile system or in the adult system. So it's only for that very narrow subset, um, of individuals who commit capital murder. The span of ages in secure care right now is 13 to 25. So this would only apply to 18 and above, and only if a judge decides.

  2. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)46:24

     Um, does that conclude your presentation?

  3. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee46:27

     Um, uh, just one final note. There's, Libertas had listed opposition to the bill on their website, but their position changed to neutral and CCJJ and sheriff's support LELC Also. All right. Um,

  4. Unknown speaker46:42speaker not certain

     I have a question. What, what factors would a judge, um, consider?

  5. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee46:47

     So the, he would, there aren't any factors listed in code other than in this narrow circumstance a judge could make the decision. So I'm sure there would be factors he would consider, but there aren't any stipulated in code.

  6. Unknown speaker47:01speaker not certain

     Alright. Um, and this bill, um, you ran this bill last year to not just to just not get through the Senate at the end?

  7. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee47:09

     I didn't run the recidivism part last year. That was from a committee bill that we worked on. Okay. This, this little piece of language was from a bill last year, and it just, it actually didn't even, I took it out before it passed the house. Okay.

  8. Unknown speaker47:22speaker not certain

     Okay. Um, in, in our prior discussions, it seems like, um, we had talked about some of the sheriffs or the security were complaining that some of these 17 year olds are, I, I guess if they stayed there until they were 25, they could be 24 year olds. They were just really big and strong individuals. I'm, I'm just wondering, um, if that's gonna be a factor or if you'd be open to putting factors in there for the judge to weigh?

  9. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee47:47

     Absolutely. Okay. All right.

  10. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)47:50

      Um, I don't see any lights from the committee, so can I see, by a show of hands, if there's anyone in the audience who'd like to testify for or against this bill? I see three hands in person Absolutely. And two online. Two online. So we'll take five comments. I'm gonna limit those to 90 seconds because we have a full agenda. Um, so please come forward and we'll do the, um, ones in person first.

  11. Lacey Singleton, Salt Lake Legal Defender Association48:23

      Good afternoon. My name is Lacey Singleton. I am a criminal defense attorney with the Salt Lake Legal Defender Association. Um, I've been a criminal defense attorney for 18 years. I mostly represent adult clients, but I am one of the few attorneys in our office who handles murders and specifically those committed by juveniles. And I currently represent, uh, at least two individuals who have committed murder under the age of 17. I'm only here to address the provisional housing aspect of this bill and urge you to reject that. Um, the concerns that we have are that, first of all, I think that what we will see if this is put into place is that plea negotiations and aggravated murder cases will begin to revolve around placement of the individual and not the merits of the case itself. Um, I think you will likely see more cases going to trial that perhaps would not need to go to trial because, uh, offers would be made to plead with a stipulation of prison. We would not do that. Additionally, at sentencing, we would need to educate the judges about the different housing options, which would be a lengthy expenditure of judicial resources. We would've to present evidence as to what would be the best housing for an resources available to those individuals. And currently, judges do not make decisions about, um, determinations of housing as it relates to safety or the risk of the individual. They might decide to send somebody to jail or prison, but the decision of where to house an individual in the jail or prison as to their safety or the risk is based on that facility determination because they are better equipped to assess that. I have clients charged with murder who are in minimum security. I have clients charged with theft who are in maximum security. The charge does not equ equate to the risk that an individual presents. Um, and secure care is very, um, it is effectively juvenile prison. It is not, um, a daycare for juveniles. It is not low. You know, it is not any less restrictive than the prison. In fact, many places in the prison are, are less restrictive than you will see. Um, a lot of, you know, people wandering around in, in, in minimum security. And, and we have had, you know, a lot of, there's a lot of danger in placing youth in, into the prison in, um, the, because of the recidivism, you make them put them in prison, it makes them worse. And there's already a mechanism to transfer juveniles, uh, without a a full hearing. So I have, and, uh, you know, also the, um, the currently there is a mechanism in place to transfer. And without involving the board of pardons administratively, this would request a hearing. And, uh, I have concerns about the due process involved with an individual, the representation they would have at that hearing. Sorry. All right. Thank you. Next.

  12. Jesse Martinez, resident51:02

      Hello, my name is Jesse Martinez. I'm here representing myself and speaking with regards to the youth affected by this bill. Um, I spent nearly 14 years in prison for a shooting I was involved in. Um, I'm here to tell you that I'm one of the lucky ones. During the initial part of my incarceration, I had an older inmate who took me under his wing and taught me how to navigate the system and avoid the pitfalls of gangs, drugs, and other dangers. But for every lucky individual such as myself, there are countless others devoid of guidance. The most tragic cases almost always involve teenagers and young men. The inmates become, these inmates become tools for gangs or victims of rape within the system I've witnessed this one inmate I'm in reminded of was 18 years old and turned a three year sentence into possible life. After a stabbing, he was ordered to carry out by his new gang, I think often and reminded, I'm reminded of the old man who helped me to navigate my prison sentence and get out. I realize that I am now that old man, and my hope is that my testimony will help you to navigate a decision regarding a bill that only stands to benefit gangs and sexual predators in the prison system. Thank you for your time.

  13. Unknown speaker52:25speaker not certain

      Thank you. I just have a question. What, what are you doing with your life now? Um, I'm going to college. I've been out for three years and, um, just have been blessed to be able to spend time out here and, and hope to help others that were in the situation I was in. You were in for 14 years? Yes, sir. Did you get any college credit or anything while you were in jail? I attempted to, um, it's very difficult to end up in, uh, locations where you can improve your education. Okay. And you've been able to stay straight since you've been out? Yes, sir. Well, congratulations and thanks for being here today. Thank you Very much. Um,

  14. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)53:04speaker not certain

      Senator asking me, hold on, sir. Sir,

  15. Unknown speaker53:08speaker not certain

      Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, just a personal privilege. I've, I'm very familiar with Mr. Martinez and his case and, um, had a chance to discuss multiple issues with Department of Corrections, um, with and his family. And this, he has an incredible story, by the way, and I encourage if you get a minute to listen more about his experience inside, but also through the process of parole, which I think is very powerful. But he, um, now dedicates his time to help others. And I applaud, um, Mr. Martinez for that. And, and he wants to raise awareness of things that are happening, uh, inside our, within the Department of Corrections. But overall, what, um, men and women are facing, and I think this is one of them where I appreciate your perspective and please note is being noted. Um, there's many that probably would like to say something that are so scared right now, and you're speaking for many. So thank you for doing that and for continuing to be an example and a role model for many. Um, you've certainly, um, had a journey that's, you know, difficult and I applaud that you're moving in the right direction and your family's being part of that. So thank you for that opportunity. Mr. Mr. Chair.

  16. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)54:29

      Thank you. Um, thank you, sir. Thank you. Thanks for being here today, Mr. Strong.

  17. Dan Strong, Director, Sentencing Commission54:39

      Dan Strong director of the sentencing commission and staff with CCJJ. Um, wanted to thank Representative Lisonbee for working collaboratively with stakeholders on this bill. Obviously there was a lot in, in here. I want to speak mainly just about the, uh, recidivism metric. Representative Lisonbee, uh, helped us pass a bill, or, well, we helped her, I think, pass a bill. I guess, I don't know what the order was, but a couple years ago, um, related to recidivism metrics that has helped us get consistent, um, measurable data on, on a metric for recidivism in our state. And, um, you know, we've gone back and forth with different groups about how that could be improved and, um, there's some language in this bill I think that I think achieves the next step in that process and, uh, without kind of derailing the progress we've already made. And so appreciate Representative Liz's work on that. Um, and the other pieces as well related to juvenile, uh, custody had, uh, a lot of support within the commission. Ultimately our support and concept on this bill, as some of those other things were still worked out and we haven't gone back to it since the final sub came out, but I did wanna express appreciation for the movement, so thank you. So if I could, um, I understand the sheriffs like this bill, I understand some of these kids are scary dudes and, uh, create problems, you know, um, you know, security wise in, in these juvenile facilities, but I, I don't know what, what was, what was the discussion at CCJJ about? Maybe, uh, we just heard that these kids could be, um, raped, they could be recruited for gangs. Do you have concerns about those young kids and the adult population? I can sum up the discussions, which I think, as you kind of alluded to, there's different perspectives on, um, the costs and benefits of the provisional housing piece in this bill. And I know that there's been a lot of, uh, good faith work from everyone involved, including Representative Liz b to try to dial that in. Well, um, including in the latest sub. Um, like I said, we haven't had a chance to come back and review this language as a commission to see whether there's full support on that piece, but that was the one remaining piece and why we were at a supporting concept was kind of to see where that went as it headed into this committee hearing. So.

  18. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)56:37

      Alright. Thank you. Thank you.

  19. Sen. Luz Escamilla56:38

      Mr. Chair. A follow up Question? Yes, Mr. Strong, uh, Senator Escamilla. Thank You. Was there any conversation in, so is there like a, where do we draw the line, I guess how many miners need to be impacted to say this is not a good idea? I mean, any conversation like, is it five, is it 10? Is it a hundred? I mean, do we have a, a number of humans, Sorry. So like, if something bad happens, right? And because it happens, right? I mean, we're acknowledging that things happen in this situation. I know our goal is to prevent any, um, violence against anyone right. In our facilities. But when you have a a a child, it's a minor, correct? Right. So is was there conversations of saying, um, on this we support and concept like maybe it is we come, you know, we come back to the drawing table at x number of, of minors being impacted? I mean, on the violence part, I'm actually very specific to the, to the fact that they will be housed with, you know, violent criminals, Right? So

  20. Dan Strong, Director, Sentencing Commission57:49

      I, there there was not any discussion at CCJJ about a particular number or, you know, amount of impact that would, and I don't know if that there is any magic number for those sorts of decisions. Um, I mean, I can say that the, um, and there's obviously folks in the room who have even more expertise in juvenile law who could speak to some of this than, than myself. But I know there's been a lot of movement in this area. You know, the, uh, just, just three years ago I think is when we changed process to allow, uh, JJ Ys to keep kids much longer. Um, and then, you know, this would carve out a specific subset of that group for serious offenses in certain age groups. And I think that, like, like it's been talked about, I think it's a tough question. It was a tough question for CCJJ and, um, we do think there was a lot of work to get the bill to, uh, a pretty good consensus place, but that did remain a tr a difficult issue for everyone.

  21. Sen. Luz Escamilla58:42

      Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

  22. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)58:43

      Thank you. Uh, next. Okay. So first online, we'll go to Nate Mutter. Nate, if you could turn on your camera, tell us your name and what county you live in.

  23. Nate Mutter, Chair, Law Enforcement Legislative Committee58:58

      Yes. Uh, thank you Chair Nate Mutter, um, chair of the Law Enforcement Legislative Committee, uh, coming to you from Davis County. Um, we, we'd like to urge the, the committee's support on this bill. Uh, appreciate representative Libe for bringing this forward. Uh, the one piece that, that we'd like to speak to is the, uh, the 17-year-old who commits an aggravated murder. So, so kills another individual and is sentenced at 18 years old. So in order for this to even apply, the sentencing would have to occur after the, uh, person turned 18 years old. IE becomes an adult. And so that person, uh, would then be at the, the, you know, discretion of the court based on the facts of the case and the victim impact. And I, I think that's one thing we continuously overlook, is the impact to the victim. Um, we definitely feel for, uh, you know, the issues, uh, being raised in terms of, uh, uh, a young man, uh, who is sentenced to prison. Um, but that doesn't, you know, that shouldn't override the impact to the victim, uh, when they lose a loved one to an aggravated murder. Um, we're just simply asking to allow the court the discretion, uh, and to decide, again, based on the facts and the victim impact, impact. Um, and for that we would urge the committee support. Thank you.

  24. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)1:00:22

      Thank you. Alright. And then, we'll, our last public commenter will be Kel Littrell, if I'm saying that right. Can you turn on your camera? Tell us your name and what county you're from.

  25. Kelty Littrell, resident1:00:31

      I'm Ti Littrell. I'm from Iron County and I'm testifying as a concerned social work and criminal justice student at SUU. And I'm currently doing my research capstone on the juvenile justice system. So one of my primary concerns is that the youth are not gonna have access to the proper education or resources that they need. The prison system is not gonna be able to expend those extra staff members for, to help them with their education, especially if they still need to get their high school diploma or GED. And another major concern that is I have is that juvenile brains are not developed as well as adult brains. And putting them in such a high stress environment may increase right rates of depression, suicidality, and even suicide attempts. I'm concerned that if they're put in this situation with the general population, that their mental health is gonna take a term for the worst. Whereas in juvenile secure care centers, they're gonna have that resources, they're gonna have a therapist. And my final concern is about logistics. If they're put in general population, they're not gonna have, um, the same support system as they do in a juvenile facility. And the Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Act establish a sight and sound separation requirement for juveniles in the adult prison system, which I don't think that Utah Prison system is equipped to handle and has the space or capacity for. So I ask that you vote no on the provisional housing aspect of this bill. Thank you.

  26. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)1:01:58

      Thank you. Alright, we're gonna close the, uh, public comment hearing and bring it back to the committee for further discussion or action. Senator Mussel man.

  27. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:02:11

      Um, how many individuals would be impacted a year, let's say, uh, just pertaining to the 17-year-old. So they're a juvenile, they commit the crime, and then they turn 18 as the trial progresses. And now we're in a circumstance where they could, the judge could decide whether or not they're gonna be tried as an adult or

  28. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:02:34

      No. So if they commit only aggravated murder, it's only that one crime.

  29. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:02:39

      No, I I understood that.

  30. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:02:40

      Yeah. Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah, there was a comment in the public comment that that used a plural, and so I thought maybe needed clarification.

  31. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:02:49

      Oh, um, then a motion can be made that then a judge would consider for housing upon sentencing where they would be sentenced to, whether it is adult prison or whether they go to secure care under JJYS. And currently JJYS has discretion. I think there's a lot of, um, misconception because there's a lot of talk about, well, we don't want these, these people to be housed in the prison setting. But JJYS themselves transferred three 18-year-old individuals in the last 24 months, um, or excuse me, in the last 12 months to prison from secure care who were 18 years old because they were causing a problem in secure care. So this already is happening. This is just giving a judge discretion similar to the discretion that JJYS already has.

  32. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:03:40

      So, could the same problems be with a 16-year-old? Couldn't they have the same issues

  33. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:03:45

      They could. I think the, the concern here is at 18, you're an adult. We are currently housing between 13 and 25 year olds. What is the effect of an 18 to 25-year-old potentially on a 13 or 14-year-old insecure care? And there are some divisions in secure care, but there is also interaction. And so I, I think we, we need to trust that judges will make an informed decision for particular individuals that are before them in court. Just as JJYS will make that informed decision for individuals that they observe with insecure care.

  34. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:04:28

      How, how, how many individuals would be, let's say, in a year, this has to be a fairly small number. One, two.

  35. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:04:37speaker not certain

      I believe that it's under 2020 Seems really high to me, but total, thank you.

  36. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)1:04:49

      All right. Um, anybody want to make a motion? Senator balding?

  37. Sen. Heidi Balderree1:05:05

      It's, um, 48. 48. It's third sub 48, substitute third to the full body of the Senate.

  38. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)1:05:23

      Alright, we have a, um, I'm not sure that the microphone picked that up, but we have a motion to favorably recommend third substitute, um, house Bill 48 to the body of the Senate, a discussion to that motion. Um, scene nine, let's do a roll call. Vote

  39. Committee clerk1:05:48

      Re aye. Brammer Aye. Col. Uh, Escamia Fillmore Aye. Mikel Aye. Musman Aye. Pitcher, did she just walk out?

  40. Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)1:06:08

      Okay. And Chair Weiler, I'll, I'll vote. Aye. And I'm probably gonna, um, add some factors on the Senate floor so that motion passes on a six to two vote. Um, congratulations. Um, Senator Baldry, I know we had you listed first. Senator McKell needs to go present another committee. Do you mind if we he said he'd be fast. Fast. Three

• Mar 5, 2026 Senate floor debate (day 44)▶ Watch
  Transcript (22 turns)

  1. Sen. Kirk A. Cullimore1:23:48

     their fellow teenagers sometimes, but also, or young, um, adults, but also to the, uh, to the security guards. And so this bill will create a mechanism where some of these people can be transferred to adult courts if they're posing a security risk. I have a sub four, which I think is a friendly amendment, um, which would just put some factors in that the court can consider if they're trying to move someone. Because we, we passed a bill years ago, which I support still, that allows some of these like 17-year-old, um, murder defendants to stay in, uh, juvenile custody up to the age of 25. And that works fine for some of them but not for others. And so sub four uh, preserves the bill but also adds some factors, uh, that would be considered when they're trying to take a, uh, a kid out of, or a younger man out of, uh, the juvenile detention and put him into the adult prison. So with that I'd like to move to, um, delete entitled Body third, substitute House bill 48 and replace it with fourth substitute house bill 48. And then I have another motion. Thank you. Thank you. I see uh, uh, there is actually a fifth one online too, So yeah, we want the fourth. The fourth. So, uh, we motion to substitute, uh, Senator Cullimore to that motion.

  2. Senate President (presiding)1:25:07

     That's a friendly motion. Thank, I'm gonna place the motion. The motion is to delete and title and body third substitute House bill 48. And replace it with fourth substitute house bill 48. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Roll let. Motion passes. This bill is substitute, it's now Senator Weiler. Any back to you I guess.

  3. Sen. Todd Weiler1:25:27

     Yes. Now on the fourth substitute, I've been talking with a board of Pardons and parole and um, I've got, uh, an amendment one to insert the language into the four sub on line 1 96. This is all already typed out, uh, that if the board agrees to review the status of the minor, that's all the amendment one does. So I'd like to move amendment one to the four sub That is in order.

  4. Senate President (presiding)1:25:51

     Do you want to, uh, again, you've pretty much explained that. Yes. Any further discussion on the motion to amend Senator Escamilla to that motion?

  5. Sen. Luz Escamilla1:25:59

     Yes. Thank you Mr. President. Question to the sponsor of the motion to amend Senator Weiler.

  6. Sen. Todd Weiler1:26:04

     Will you Yes. Um, yield. Go ahead Senator Escamilla,

  7. Sen. Luz Escamilla1:26:08

     Thank you. And I, we did discuss this bill in committee. I wanna make sure I'm understanding 'cause I do have constituents with a lot of concerns on this bill. What this language adds in line 1 96 is that if a minor ends up being put in this, um, scenario that the board agrees to review the status. Is that what it is? I mean, after it's been put by a judge decision, A judicial decision, I guess, yeah,

  8. Sen. Todd Weiler1:26:36

     If I could. So a, after someone's convicted, and this I believe only applies to like 17 year olds convicted of murder, if after they're convicted and after they're in the juvenile detention facility, if they're creating a security risk, then the prosecutor can file a motion and ask the court to have the board review the status of the minor, uh, who's in the secured, uh, care facility. And then this language would say if the board agrees to review the status, um, that that's what this amendment's doing.

  9. Sen. Luz Escamilla1:27:10

     Okay. So it would give the discretion to the board to review the status or not to review the status. Um, Follow up question, Mr. President and, and thank you for that answer. Okay. Um, just when, just to be clear, the board is board of Pardons, correct?

  10. Sen. Todd Weiler1:27:24

      That is correct. Thank you.

  11. Senate President (presiding)1:27:28

      Thank you. Looking for further discussion on the motion to amend. I don't see any further discussions. We're gonna place the motion to amend amendment one in Senator Weiler's name. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Rule that motion passes. The bill is amend Senator Weiler any further.

  12. Sen. Todd Weiler1:27:50

      And sadly I have one more motion to amend and if anybody has a book and wants to throw it. Okay, there we go. It'll be justified. There we go. We'll take another motion Now with the amendment on line 1 96, we just adopted the amendment, but on line 1 9 6 it says, shall appoint counsel and I'd like to make a verbal amendment to change the shall to a may. And that's on line 1 96. And the shall appears right before the words appoint counsel. And we would change shall to may. So it'll be may appoint counsel. So that's actually on the Yeah, it's extending on my machine. Uh, at least like my computer on the second line of 1 96. Yeah. One second line of 1 96. The first word shall strike that. Strike Shall and replace it with May. May, Which gives the board pardons more, more discretion.

  13. Senate President (presiding)1:28:39

      Have discussion. See No discussion. I'll place the motion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Roll That motion passes. Anything else, Senator, while no

  14. Sen. Todd Weiler1:28:49speaker not certain

      Thank you.

  15. Senate President (presiding)1:28:51

      Looking for further discussion to the bill. See none. I'm gonna go back to Senator Cullimore summation and a motion.

  16. Sen. Kirk A. Cullimore1:29:02

      Okay, we've had good discussion on the bill. My motion is that we under suspension of the rules pass for substitute house bill 48 as amended. Thank You. And the

  17. Senate President (presiding)1:29:12

      question is under suspension of the rule, shall force substitute house bill 48 pass. Roll call vote.

  18. Unknown speaker1:29:17speaker not certain

      Senator Vickers Baldry Lewin Rammer Bus Colmore Escamilla Fillmore Grover Harper Kins Ipson Aye. Johnson Juab McKay Mikel Milner Musman Owens pitcher Thumb re Sandal Stevenson Stratton Bickers Aye. Weiler Wilson Aye. Winterton Musselman McKay Aye. President Adams Aye. Forced

  19. Senate President (presiding)1:30:32

      substitute house bill 48 Having received 28 votes, seven a votes two being absent passes this body and will be returned to the house for further consideration. Senator Kwan, do you want a, uh, a personal privilege? Go ahead.

  20. Sen. Karen Kwan1:30:50

      I do. Thank you Mr. Uh, president, I ask leave of the body to, uh, change my vote on house Bill 5 0 2 4 sub Tell me that change. Uh, I'm sorry. Yes. I'd like to change it to a no and it won't change the outcome of the bill. Thank You. It won't change the outcome.

  21. Senate President (presiding)1:31:06

      Any objection? All in favor say aye. Just so I can aye. Any, any opposed say No objection. Senator Weiler.

  22. Sen. Todd Weiler1:31:16

      Motion House bill 4 23. We have a motion to UNC Encircle house bill 4 23 hit and run and DUI.

• Mar 5, 2026 House floor debate (day 44)▶ Watch
  Transcript (5 turns)

  1. Speaker (presiding)2:11

     Or substitute house bill 48, criminal and juvenile justice changes by Representative Zaby. Thank you Madam Marine Clerk Representative Zaby.

  2. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee2:19

     Thank you Mr. Speaker. So the changes, oh, motion to concur.

  3. Speaker (presiding)2:24

     Thank you representative. The motion, uh, before us the house concur with the Senate amendments on four substitute HP 48. Would you like to speak to that?

  4. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee2:32

     Yes. Thank you Mr. Speaker. So this just adds some factors that a judge has to consider or the Board of Pardons has to consider when they are looking at making a motion to change housing arrangements for an, um, ary who is under 18.

  5. Speaker (presiding)2:52

     Thank you rep Sam Mby. Discussion to the motion to concur with the Senate amendments on four substitute HB 48. See none. We will go ahead and place the motion. All in favor say aye. A. Any opposed rule that motion passes for substitute HB 48 is now open for final passage. Seeing all present, having voted voting is now closed. Four. Substitute HB 48 passes this body with 52 yes votes. 15 no votes will be sent to the Senate for the signature of the president, Madam Marine Clerk

All votes

• 7-0-4House Judiciary Committee · House Comm - Substitute Recommendation · Feb 2, 2026Roll call
• 7-1-3House Judiciary Committee · House Comm - Favorable Recommendation · Feb 2, 2026Roll call
• 56-14-5House floor · House/ passed 3rd reading · Feb 17, 2026Roll call
• 6-2-1Senate Judiciary, Law Enforcement, and Criminal Justice Committee · Senate Comm - Favorable Recommendation · Feb 24, 2026Roll call
• 20-7-2Senate floor · Senate/ passed 2nd & 3rd readings/ suspension · Mar 5, 2026Roll call
• 52-15-8House floor · House/ concurs with Senate amendment · Mar 5, 2026Roll call

Tallies are yeas–nays–absent.