H.B. 80 Firearm Storage Requirements: transcript

House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee, Jan 23, 2026

1. Committee chair Wilcox51:19

   HB 80, I believe. Mr. Chair, I believe there are some handouts. Are we okay to pass those out? Yeah, we don't approve these handouts. Just kidding. We're aware that we have to be careful. Handouts. Go ahead, representative. You're fine.

2. Rep. Andrew Stoddard52:09

   Thank you Mr. Chair. Committee members, uh, so I'm just going to walk you through what the bill does. I do wanna speak briefly on the handout. So the handout has some data on it about child access protection laws, uh, safe storage laws that's used interchangeably in the language. Um, the data here is from a RAND study that was done nationwide on gun violence. So that's where those numbers come from. Um, you'll see at the bottom there are some descriptions of events that have happened recently in our state due to unsecured firearms. So that's just a, a sampling of, of incidents that we're trying to prevent with this legislation here. So to start, this bill is taken almost word for word from a Florida statute that they've had for a number of years. And, and the reason they have the statute is tried to prevent school shootings and to put some accountability back on the parents, uh, so that minors don't get their unstore firearms and use them to commit crimes. So this bill is very narrowly tailored. There are four specific requirements that have to be met into in order to support criminal charges. Uh, so the first is that the adult stores a loaded firearm at home without proper security, and there are definitions in the bill, um, but just kind of the usual trigger locks, lock container, things like that. And it does have to be loaded. Second is that the adult knows or should know, that a minor under 16 could access the firearm and that it would be unlawful under section 76 11 2 11. And that's just the code section for possession of a dangerous weapon by a minor. And so currently that's a, that's the language that is being used to hold minors accountable when they have a firearm, since they are restricted people under the age of 16. Uh, the third is actual possession. The minor does have to get this firearm and violate the statute. Then the fourth, the minor has to use that and exhibit it in public or use it in a fight or a quarrel. So I wanna be clear on a couple things. This isn't for the tragic situations where there's a loaded firearm that's not secured, A child gets it and then dies from an accidental shooting that doesn't even apply here. In order to qualify under this proposed statute, it would have to be used intentionally in a fight or a quarrel. So we're not trying to punish parents who've gone through some sort of tragedy. Um, but this is for kids who take it and use it in the commission of a crime. There are a couple of caveats on this. If the firearm was stolen, so someone breaks in, steals the firearm, it ends up in the hands of a minor and is used in the commission of a crime, this section does not apply. If it's used lawfully and self-defense also does not apply. And if the owner reports the minor's access to law enforcement, then it does not apply. On top of that though, there is an affirmative defense that if the adult can show that they took precautions and reasonable precautions to secure the firearm and the minor still gets it, using the fight meets all of the qualifications of the statute, um, they can use that and they cannot be held liable or charged criminally for it. So that's the basis of the bill. Um, I think looking at our gun data and the charges of minor possessing of firearm, which is varied wildly from year to year, anywhere from five to 20 to 90 charges a year are happening in our Utah courts. Um, in terms of the Florida statute that this is based on, its hard to gather data because the way Florida reports their gun violence crimes, they're all lumped together. So we can't get specific data on these crimes. Um, but in the past few years, Florida has been trying to beef theirs up to raise the level of offense. So it is a more serious offense. Um, but I think this bill, one of the good things about it, I I hope that no parents would be charged under it if it are enacted. Um, but there's a collateral consequence of having more secure firearms. We know that guns are the number one killers of our kids, and by locking them up, we've seen from other states, as you can see from the data on the handout, that there there is a reduction in suicides. Uh, unfortunately in our state, our suicides, even though we're putting in a lot of resources into mental health safe, ut 9, 8, 8, um, our suicides are going up. And this is a small step that we can take to hopefully reduce it. And I, I do think that any steps that we take to try to save lives is worth it. And, uh, with that, Mr. Chair, I'm open to any questions?

3. Committee chair Wilcox56:46

   Thank you, representative. We have clarifying questions from the committee. Okay. Seeing none. And we have also heard this bill before, so, um, we have, uh, anyone from the public here to speak to this one. Okay. You don't have too many in person. If you guys just want to line up and I'm sitting next to Representative Stoddard, you just have to sign if this is your first time here, especially, um, for those who are new, make sure you introduce yourself, um, where you're from and if you're here representing an organization who you represent. And then don't forget to sign in. Thank you.

4. Steve Williams, Central Ninth Youth Prevention Coalition57:41

   Thank you. Um, my name's Steve Williams. I work as a community organizer and I manage the Central Ninth Youth Prevention Coalition here in Salt Lake. Um, I was a 31 year teacher and school administrator here in Utah and in Atlanta. And I live in Ogden now.

5. Committee chair57:58

   Okay. Will someone do a jumping jack in case that's the motion lights or something? Ogden. Alright. I hope, I hope that wasn't a dig on Ogden. I Was, I was, I was really hoping to see a jumping jack just for the record. Alright, go ahead. Sorry about that.

6. Steve Williams, Central Ninth Youth Prevention Coalition58:18

   Thank you. Um, imagine walking into the room of a 16-year-old boy as I did when I was 11, in discovering, leaning against all four bedroom walls, like a kind of firearm wains coating, over a hundred rifles varying age, size, and power. I was mesmerized, curious, and under a spell. I wanted to touch them, hold them, play with them. I wanted to pull the trigger on all of those rifles. Besides that moment, my personal experience with guns in my own home has been more modest and more restrained. But growing up among the hunters and cowboys of western Wyoming and Cash Valley and eight years in the military taught me a few things about guns that I think matter more than their allure to. And 11-year-old guns are powerful. They're dynamic, they're deadly, and they deserve to be treated with respect, care, and safety. Kids are naturally curious, impulsive, and much more willing to take risks than most of the adults in this room. They act and react often with little thought while you riding a rollercoaster of adolescent emotion. Having firearms easily available and unsecured in our homes is an open invitation to our young people in all of their impulsivity and curiosity and emotional chaos to take unnecessary risks. Guns are not toys and they should be guarded and secured at all times in the Army. We checked our weapons out from the armory where they remained locked and secured unless we were actively using them. Ammunition was issued at the firing line or just prior to a live fire exercise. An unused ammo was returned and weapons were cleared before we could leave the firing line. Even in that environment where weapons are central to the culture, a literal extension of a soldier's strength and might we insist on safely separating and securing weapons from the humans who use them. Owning a gun is a right with responsibilities that will keep our communities and our kids safer. I encourage you to vote yes on HB 80. Thank you. Thank you.

7. Brett Robinson, Salt Lake County Attorney's Office1:00:24

   Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. My name is Brett Robinson and I'm the Chief Policy Advisor for the Salt Lake County District Attorney's Office. And we also encourage support of this bill. Um, we're coming at it from a perspective of the youth violence that we see in our state. I was just looking at the FBI crime data, um, over the last 10 years for homicides in our state. And if you go from 2021 to 2026, and look at the five years before that, starting in 2016 to 2021. So 10 years ago, up until five years ago, the demographic that committed the most homicides in our state was those who were 20 to 29 years of age at 150 homicides. And you flash forward to the last 10 years, the demographic with the most homicides are those who are 10 to 19 years of age with 164. And we're very grateful for this committee and the steps that have been taken, uh, to help us address that with recruiting of minors to join gangs and other things. Um, but this is another avenue that perhaps can decrease that number. And that's just to stem the flow of these guns that get in the hands of children. Um, because many of the cases that we prosecute, um, involve minors and many of them get these guns or access to them within their own homes. And doing something to encourage responsible ownership is something that we believe will decrease the amount of cases that we need to prosecute. So we encourage support of this bill. Thank you.

8. Ivy Manno, Students Demand Action1:02:12

   Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for acknowledging my testimony today. My name is Ivy Mano and I'm representing Students Demand Action in every town. I'm 19 years old and currently a freshman at the University of Utah. I am speaking today in support of HB 80, and I'm here because guns are the leading cause of death among kids and teens in Utah. Safe gun storage is so important for saving lives, and P 80 is a powerful incentive for gun owners to practice secure storage methods. Unauthorized access to guns present a serious safety risk for young people in Utah. Every time a child accesses a gun, an adult has failed a critical duty of keeping us safe. I grew up in Denver, Colorado, and in eighth grade I was just 14 years old. It was the first time that school was canceled because of a legitimate gun threat. I was scared to go to school for weeks after that, but it eventually became the norm. Then just two years later, there was a school shooting at a neighboring high school and someone I knew was shot and killed along with two teachers who were seriously injured. If the gun used in that shooting had been safely stored, he would still be alive today. My generation knows all too well the devastation that gun violence can wreck on someone's life. My experience leads me to emphasize how important safe Storage is today. I encourage members of the committee to vote yes on HB 80. This concludes my testimony. Thank you for giving me the opportunity.

9. Committee chair1:03:40

   Thank you. We had one more. Is there anyone else here to speak in person? Okay, we'll have that one be our last one then. Thank you.

10. Linda Smith, Utah League of Women Voters1:03:56

    Oh, chair. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee members. My name is Lynndyl Smith. I'm here on behalf of the legal Women Voters, uh, to speak in favor of this bill. I'm also an attorney and a retired law professor. I wanna speak a little bit about why we have law. Obviously some of the laws we pass, we pass because if anyone violates the law, they've made the community unsafe and they should be locked up. But there are also many laws that we pass because we wanna establish a standard of behavior. We wanna establish norms. Now, when I was a kid, everyone smoked everywhere. People smoked in stores, people smoked in restaurants, they smoked in, uh, office buildings, in athletic venues. They even smoked in hospitals. And then we discovered scientifically that smoke kills. And we discovered that secondhand smoke kills innocent children when there, when others are smoking. And we made it illegal to smoke inside. Now, people that smoke didn't like that initially, but time has passed and now no one smokes inside. And we've eliminated, I think we've saved millions of lives internationally because of that law. When I was a kid, they didn't have seat belts, then they created seat belts and people started using 'em and people started hated using them. Um, and we discovered that using seat belts saved lives. People that were in accidents wearing seat belts didn't die. Those that didn't wear seat belts went through the windshield. And we made a law that you have to wear a seat belt and you have to put your kids in a car seat. And we've saved lives googling it. I think we've saved something like 490 some thousand lives because of his seatbelt laws. Last year, this body passed a law to address youth mental health education and ban cell phones in school classrooms. Good for you. You've relied on science and hopefully you'll save some lives and you'll improve some children's education. This bill is a public health bill. All of the experts agree that guns, that firearms should be stored, unlocked, and locked, and they should be stored, locked and unloaded. And yet the majority of people that are killed in Utah by firearms are killed by a firearm that was stored, locked. It, it was stored, loaded and unlocked. I I sent you around yesterday some further data about suicide. Um, I'm shocked to learn about the number of teens that are killing, um, our citizens. Uh, but most firearm deaths are suicides. 80% of firearms deaths are suicides. And suicides happen because a gun is accessible to someone that has temporarily perhaps become depressed. This public health bill is needed to establish norms that guns must be stored, unloaded, uh, unloaded and locked up. All of the experts agree that this is the right way to handle firearms. The NRA, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Clark Ian, they all agree with this practice. We just need to establish this norm like we've established the norm against smoking and in favor of wearing seat belts and we're establishing the norm against constantly using cell phones. Thank you for your consideration.

11. Unknown committee member1:07:47speaker not certain

    Thank you. I got a question for you that I've wondered, and maybe you have the, maybe you have the answer, um, in your, in your studies, um, over time. But one of the things that's been difficult to reconcile for, I think a lot of us, you, you mentioned the things that you, of how we grew up. One of those, um, I think the prior testimony, a whole room full of guns. I grew up on a dairy farm, uh, rural community. We had guns everywhere. How do you explain the Delta between what we see now with access and the use of those? I mean, several of us had a gun in our vehicle every day of school. Not one of us thought of shooting our classmates. Right. What do you think that is responsible for that Delta?

12. Linda Smith, Utah League of Women Voters1:08:34

    I I mean, I think you're asking a sociological question that I'm probably not the best person to answer it, but I think if you had guns used for functional reasons, you've got a gun because there may be a coyote that needs to be shot or, um, uh, some other, um, safety measure, then you were taught respect for guns. I think youth today may understand guns as something that shows that they're manly or powerful. Um, and they should like lift weights, right? I mean, guns are not a good, uh, symbol for power. And I think that's a sociological problem we have. Um, I think this bill isn't going to immediately change everybody's attitudes about guns. Um, and youth are probably still gonna think guns is a wonderful way to, uh, be powerful. And kids raised on farms are not, they're gonna be taught that guns are needed to go deer hunting and, you know, harvest meat or guns are needed to shoot critters, um, that are gonna steal the chickens. Um, I think our rural, uh, youth are gonna continue to understand that gun is a tool that's appropriately used and come to respect it. But I think our urban youth don't have the opportunities to see gun as a, as a useful tool. And, um, and unfortunately have come to see it as, as some sort of a, a magical powerful thing. Interesting. I think, uh, follow on, I, I a hundred percent think that when we first, uh, received our first firearms as, you know, 12-year-old kids, um, it, we thought it was a symbol of power. It was fun, right? It was fun. It was part of growing up. Like I was taught how to do the things and it was responsible and I went through hunter safety and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I think that's part of it. I think that's, I don't know how you divorce that part from many part of the society. I think this bill doesn't prevent parents from going to the shooting range with their kids or from going hunting with their kids. It requires parents. It requires parents to sh to demonstrate safe gun handling techniques that will teach the youth that there's a time and a place to use that power and to have that fun.

13. Unknown committee member1:10:57speaker not certain

    Oh, thank you. I mean, part of the question I think is just where, what's the difference between then? Like we literally had guns all over the house, above the door above the fireplace, you know, behind the closet, all the things, and it just wasn't, wasn't what it is now. Thank you. Thank you. Trying to figure this out. Uh, oh, sorry, chief, uh, this is Representative Lisonbee also Chief Glynn. He's a police chief too. He's got a question for you. Okay, Thank you.

14. Rep. Karianne Lisonbee1:11:25

    Um, earlier you had talked about, uh, smoking in the home. This is gonna seem like a ridiculous question, but in the state of Utah, have we outlawed smoking inside someone's home? No. No, we have not. No, but, and so I agree with you. We could, we could declare that to be child neglect, but none of the nanny state people, I'm sure there's someplace in the world that they've done that, but I think it's, but none of our nanny state people have, have gone so far as to try to control parents' behaviors to that extent. And I don't think there's as high a danger to kids for their parents smoking in the home as there is for guns being unlocked. Mr. Chair, I think that's like really the crux of the issue, right? Is the sanctity of the home, right? That may not be an immediate danger, but it's certainly long term torturous. Maybe would some way believe. Um, I I agree that, you know, we need to talk about training. I, I disagree on the power aspect. Again, that's another sociological problem, but training, um, proper handling, right? What if a minor has been trained by their parents to actually defend the home? Uh, where does this land them? Quite honestly, and I love the sponsor to death. Uh, this bill will make me a criminal. That's the reality. I live in a world where sometimes we get threats. We live in a world where sometimes we get threats. I don't care if it's a bio identifying safe. I don't care if it's combination safe. I don't care if it's a safe in my nightstand, seconds count. And if we're gonna be talking about the defending the sanctity of the home, the onus is on the homeowner to make sure that if there is gonna be access, and I agree there shouldn't be, but I don't know that we're in a position where we should be mandating. And quite honestly, I don't know that I can support a bill that's going to make myself in violation of the statute. Thank you. Thanks.

15. Committee chair1:13:22

    Thank you. You clearly made us think a lot today.

16. Linda Smith, Utah League of Women Voters1:13:26

    Well, that, that's the idea of the old professor. Um, there you go.

17. Committee chair1:13:31

    Okay. We have a, we we have a few online. Do you wanna say something else? Okay. We have a few online. Did you want There's another one here still. Oh, okay.

18. Hillary Hughes1:13:40

    Go ahead. Gotta raise my hand. Hi. Hi, my name is Hillary Hughes. I'm a pediatric emergency medicine physician. I'm here representing myself as an independent citizen. However, I just wanted to bring a human, uh, side to this issue. As a physician working within pediatrics, I work in the emergency department and I see firsthand the result of gun violence, not just on the patient who is shot, but on the staff and on the family. And this is something that causes deep wounds to all of us. We all care very deeply about children. And I don't think there's a parent out there that has ever said, I wish I hadn't locked up that gun when their child comes in after being shot to the argument of smoking and, um, how we regulate the home. When a parent smokes in the home with their child, that does damage to their family potentially. But there's not the same potential of then going out into a larger space and causing damage to others around them. And that's what we're dealing with with this, this gun safety lock case. So as a pediatrician and, um, representing people who work in my emergency department, when we see families come in who've been affected by this, and we see a patient who has either been shot or has been a victim of suicide, um, you know, it, for us, it's, it's very hard when we feel that most of these are preventable. A lot of what we see in my job sometimes is random and is not preventable. But this is a case that is. And we see these beautiful children, these healthy children who have their lives shattered, and the families who are shattered. And for us, I carry all of those children with me. I've carried the children who I've watched die with me. I carry the children who I've watched become incapacitated and have to go home with a breathing tube or a G-tube where they can no longer feed themselves. I carry all of those, um, all of that pain with me. And we see these parents and families long term and the effects on them, and not only them, but their soci and honor our society. I also am a mother and I have two children in high school. And I remember clearly one day I had a patient come in who was brought in for a crisis evaluation. And this patient brought a manifesto. And this patient's, um, this patient Uintah the high school where my child went and the manifesto talked about wanting to shoot the children in the school. And I had to go home. I can't say anything, it's a HIPAA violation, but had to go home knowing that my child could return to school and be shot. So for me, this is a very personal issue. I represent, I completely recognize and respect the rights of people to own guns, but I do strongly believe and, uh, responsible ownership. And I think this is a step that could help prevent unnecessary lives. Lost and and ruined. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

19. Committee chair1:16:27

    Thank you. Clark. You there? Just Clark? Clark, uh, Sierra Online. Catherine, anyone? I am mayor. Okay. Is that Clark?

20. Clark Aposhian, Utah Shooting Sports Council1:16:58

    Mr. Chair? Mr. Chair? Yes. This is Clark Potion. Okay. I chair the Utah Shooting Sports Council.

21. Committee chair1:17:02

    Hang on, hang on. Reminder to everybody online. You gotta turn on your video. And is it not on? We need to, it's, it's our first committee of the year. We might be struggling. I, I'm here if you can hear me. I don't know who I is. Catherine Stokes. I apologize. Okay. Catherine is on. Can just hold tight for a second and then You bet. Clark's good. Camera's working. Okay, we're gonna start with Clark. 'cause apparently his is functioning. Let's see, let's try it. I don't see him still. Okay. How's your guys' monitors? Look, do you see him or do you see me? See you. I'm sorry. You can't hear him either. Okay. We can't hear Clark, but we can see him now. Definitely in a hotel of some kind. Maybe even a motel. Hard to say. How's your sign language clerk? Okay. See, I don't know why you can't hear me though. Okay. Oh, we have audio and there his voice. You have, go ahead. You Do. Okay, fantastic.

22. Clark Aposhian, Utah Shooting Sports Council1:18:38

    Excellent. Thank you so much. Alright, Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Members of the committee. Uh, my name is Clark Potion. I chair the Utah Shooting Sports Council. And, um, it, I appreciate, uh, the sponsor, um, Representative Stoddard on this and, and I respect him too. Um, we encourage Utah Shooting Sports Council, along with many other gun groups, encourage safe and appropriate storage of firearms. Um, absolutely. And so I also appreciate the, uh, the comments that have been made. Um, however, HB 80 it shifts. It, it, there's a few points that we have to make though. It HB 80, um, shifts the legal burden in a very concerning way. It includes an affirmative defense clause. So gun owners now must prove they complied with the safe stor, the state's safe storage expectation if a minor accesses firearm, now that flips the traditional burden of proof and criminal law from state to the individual. So, you know, gun owners shouldn't have to prove they complied with state mandates. The state should have to prove wrongdoing, not the citizen. In addition, if we look, there's a, there's a very concerning line or two lines, uh, on HBAD 38 and 39. It actually advocates a dangerous practice of putting a trigger lock on an actual loaded firearm. And those of us that know guns know you do not put a trigger lock on a loaded firearm, but it actually has that. In addition, HBAD creates new criminal penalties, new absolutely new criminal penalties despite existing Utah negligence in child access law. We already have laws addressing negligent handling of firearms, child access, leaving the gun like that. Um, it's better addressed. I think this legislation would be better addressed by existing negligence statutes rather than creating a new gun specific crime. Um, and you know, and I I, I appreciate the comments by the, uh, district attorney's representative, but we commonly see again and again routinely gun crimes being pled down. We at the Utah Shooting Sports Council do not wanna see plea bargains on guns, but we see it with adults and with juveniles. And, uh, we were promised a number of years ago by the DA's office that they would stop doing that. But they continue to do that. I think that's an important point. Uh, we don't need redundant criminal statutes that single out gun owners when general negligence, child endangerment laws that we already have cover this. Um, in addition, what this bill does is it's very specific, but it criminalizes thousands of people. So a firearm. So it only applies if a firearm is left loaded and unsecured, a minor under 16 accesses it, and then that minor uses it unlawfully. This is a very rare and an extreme set of circumstances. Yet the bill criminalizes all gun owners by imposing that storage mandate without evidence that, that there's any widespread irresponsible, um, storage pattern. Um, it's, uh, the enforcement is, is rather vague. It's very reactive and potentially intrusive. It only applies after a minor illegally access as a misuse of the firearm. It means enforcement is necessarily going to be reactive, not proactive. So to charge someone the state has to come in or the county must judge whether your storage practice has met, how the losses, you know, reasonable precautions, um, and intrudes into how a private homeowner and gun owner handles the self-defense tools. Um, the state should not police how law abiding guns, citizen, uh, law abiding firearm owners and citizens secure their firearms in their own homes, especially using these vague standards and kind of a post-incident review. Um, the other thing on the fiscal note, it adds $12,900 a year with new fines and enforcement and expenses, but does not create a new safety program, nor does it measure or have a metric for performance. Um, so anyway, uh, we would encourage a no vote on this. Uh, thank you Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

23. Committee chair1:22:50

    Thank you. So Catherine Stokes. Catherine, I think we heard your voice earlier. Are you still there?

24. Catherine Stokes, nurse1:22:56

    Yes. Hi, I'm Catherine Stokes. I've been a nurse for 20 years. I'm a master's degree prepared nurse. Most of my career was spent taking care of critical critically ill children in the ICU. And we're often lucky that they even make it to the ICU if they've been shot. And it's really difficult for our law enforcement colleagues and EMS fire colleagues to call a kid on the scene, meaning pronounce them dead. So sometimes they do come to us and they are dead on a arrival. That is because a gun injury is so devastating to the human body, especially a small child. I, um, in understanding in my many years of learning about human biology, the frontal lobe is not fully connected and online until your mid to late twenties and having a barrier in place, it, especially for an impulsive teenager, is huge because what that does is allows time for the frontal lobe to come online and make a different decision. So if there was a child that did have access and a desire to do something with a gun, creating a barrier is a huge deal. It really offers that opportunity for that child to think and make a different decision. So I'm very much in favor of anything we can do to have people still own their guns and have that right to bear arms, but be encouraged to do it safely and store them safely in the home. Every parent that I ever took care of their child, they would do anything to go back in time and to safely store that weapon. Thank you.

25. Committee chair1:24:48

    Thank you. Sierra Nelson. Sierra Nelson. Are you there?

26. Sierra Nelson, Sportsman Caucus Regional Advisory Council1:24:53

    I am. Thank you so much. It's always funny with these first ones to get the zoom to work. At first you're waiting for people and we can't even join as panelists yet because it's still like waiting. It's so funny. Um, committee, my name is Sierra Nelson and I'm from Cash County and I represent the Utah Sportsman's Advisory Council. I'm a vice chair and I, uh, I wanted to address you guys today and encourage you to vote no on this. Not only for our sportsmen across the state, but our rural citizens as well. I'm one of those reformed rednecks who took counter safety actually in eighth grade as an elective at school. Pretty much everybody took it. And there's really a respect issue that goes along with firearms that we should be teaching more of instead of criminalizing legal gun owners within their own homes. So we'd urge you to vote no on this for our hunters and our rural communities, and I appreciate the committee's time today. Thank you so much.

27. Committee chair1:25:49

    Thank you, Sierra. One more. Okay, Our last one is Rail Cunningham, if you're there.

28. Raelle Cunningham, Women for Gun Rights1:25:56

    Hi, thanks. Uh, my name is Rael Cunningham. I am the Utah State Director of Women for Gun Rights. Can you guys hear me? I I can hear you. I can't see you. I have the video on. It says it's on. There we go. Okay, Go ahead. Sorry. Okay. Um, we just want to like piggy piggyback off of what kind of what Clark said. You know, this becomes a slippery slope where, you know, we passed this bill and then how do we know if people are actually fire storing their firearms safely? Then that be gets law enforcement to start coming into our homes. The only law enforcement I want in my home is my husband. I don't want just them coming in to check my house. Um, but I wanna tell you a story. Um, my good friend, her name is Mary Fors. She lives in Connecticut and they have a bill very similar to this called Ethan's Law. So she was actually attacked in her home. Um, a man broke into her home, she barricaded herself in her bedroom, locked the door, the man broke into her bedroom, proceeded to strangle her. The only reason that she was, is alive today is that she had a firearm in her nightstand. And so she pulled that out, it wasn't locked up, pointed it at him, luckily didn't have to use it, but was able to scare him away enough to be able to call law enforcement. It took 10 minutes for law enforcement to come and respond to that. And so this is where I feel like we can't, I, I wanna protect our children, but that's where the education comes in. We need to educate our children. And that's why that bill passed last year about teaching firearms safety in schools. And we can teach our children how to be safe and how danger dangerous firearms can be. But they're also a tool that be, can be used for protection. They can be used for hunting and everything else that we need them for in, in our lives. And so, um, I just wanna encourage you guys to vote no on this bill as well.

29. Committee chair1:27:46

    Thank you. That concludes our public comment. We'll return back to the committee for discussion or action.

30. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:27:53

    Representative Shepherd. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I, I've been thinking a lot about this bill. There are reasons that I could support it, but there's more reasons that I have thought of that I can't support it. And probably it stems from, from this right now. I heard a comment in public comment today that guns are the leading cause of death in Utah. I disagree criminals who you gun who use guns in a criminal manner are the leading cause of death in Utah. If the stats really do say that, that's what it is, that we have guns in our home, we have 'em locked up, we have 'em put away, they are in the little one. The little things you have to put your fingerprints on, little cases to get it. So, you know, I've learned a lot in this discussion today. So I'm, I'm thinking about protecting children. I'm thinking about the criminal being a criminal act of the parent, and I have a concern about that, of, of making the parent a, a criminal in this case. So I think about what's the reason that we have guns, it's to protect us for those moments when someone does come in and they're not there to do anything good. And as the last person spoke about is even if it scares 'em off, hopefully I never have to use it. Thank you.

31. Committee chair1:29:24

    Thank you representative. Any further discussion or action from the committee? Representative Hollins?

32. Rep. Mike Hollins1:29:34

    Thank you. Thank you. Can you hear me? I, we got you. Oh good. Yeah, yeah. I recommend that we pass out HP 80 with, um, favorable recommendation. That's in order. Would you like to speak to it? Sure, I'll speak briefly to it. Um, believe it or not, my husband and I are gun owners. We keep guns in our home. Oh, I know my daughters have grown up with guns in the home, but we've always kept them under lock and key their entire time they were there. Um, we've had situations where we've had to go look for our guns and it's never been a problem for not look for our guns, but pull our guns out. But it's never been a problem because we suspect that someone was trying to harm somewhere or break in, in somewhere or we heard noise or my daughter call us from next door and say, Hey, something is going on, daddy, I need you to come over. And so it's never been a problem. So I'm in support of this bill.

33. Committee chair1:30:29

    Thank you representative. We have a, a motion to, uh, pass out house bill 80 to the floor. Um, any discussion to the motion? Okay. Seeing none, would you like to sum? I would, I assume you've met me. I do. Okay. You looked at me. But, And unless you, you can comment as a member of the committee and then wait in some, Well, since there's no other comments, I'll go ahead and just wrap it all into one. Yeah. Um, go ahead.

34. Rep. Andrew Stoddard1:31:04

    I'm just gonna walk through a few things that were said. I, I appreciate the committee, I appreciate the conversation and all the public that showed up to testify. Um, I, I respect Mr. Pot and he and I have worked together on a number of bills to tighten up our, um, protective order statutes in reference to firearms. Um, but I, I think he said a couple of things that were inaccurate. He talked about the burden of proof being shifted with the affirmative defense. And he talked about how all these people were going to made be, made criminals because of this bill and they'd have to go into court and show that. But then in a second breath, he said, this is only going to occur in rare circumstances. And I want to emphasize that this isn't going to criminalize the behavior of people not storing their guns safely. It's going to criminalize the behavior when they're stored unsafely and a child gets it and a child uses it unlawfully. So this isn't something where we're going to have law enforcement going into homes checking how people store their guns. This is, is like every other law enforcement investigation where if a child gets a gun that's not stored safely and uses it in a legal manner, they're gonna do their investigation. So most all investigations that our law enforcement do is reactive. It's not proactive. So I think these fears of it being proactive in law enforcement, busting in to count guns and register, I, I know that's a, a valid fear of some people, but that's not what this bill does. He talked about the negligence statute and, and we do have laws on the books that hold these juveniles responsible when they use these firearms illegally. But what we don't have is anything to hold the parents responsible. Um, Representative Gwynn who I equally love and adore, uh, talked about smoking in the home. And, and I think while that's analogous, it's not directly on point, um, let's, let's up at a level and say someone who has illegal drugs in the home. And I'm not saying that guns are illegal or anything, but if, if they're not taking care of these illegal drugs and a child gets it and ingests it, there is a method to charge the parent for being irresponsible. We currently have that. So this concept of holding parents responsible for something that a child does isn't novel. And I think that's more in line with what we're trying to do here. That if these children are facilitated in this crime by responsibility of a parent, that they should have some sort of consequence. I can't speak to the societal changes that you brought up. Chair Wilcox. You know, I grew up playing games with a plumber that jumped down pipes and a spinning hedgehog and you know, kids now play Mario. And so Nike, were they real? Yeah, in my world they were. Yeah. Now kids play Call of Duty in Fortnite, which I don't even understand. They're not real. Yeah. Also not real. But I think there's been so many changes now that they, these are problems that we have to worry about. And that's, and that's how life is. And I know that makes me sound old and sometimes I feel it. Um, but these are things that we have to talk about. Things that we have to debate. Look at what we've talked about as a committee the past few years. Look at the millions of dollars that we've pumped into our school safety. And that is so important. Making sure that kids can go to school and feel safe. But if we're not willing to take this basic step so that kids don't have access to these guns to take them to schools. I mean, we've prepared a huge defense financially. We've got the school safety task force. We have all these things in place, but we're not willing to do one little step to make sure these kids don't have these guns to take to school. And it's not gonna solve all the problems. I will fully admit that there are ways to get guns that I don't even know about. And there are kids that are going to get their guns regardless. But this is just one small step to try to help it so that we don't have to be so reactive that we can be proactive in stopping school shootings with the side effect of stopping firearm suicides. You can see the data there. The data is clear. These types of laws help. I understand the concerns. I would ask for your support that we can get this out on the floor and have a good robust debate. Thank you.

35. Committee chair1:35:06

    Thank you. Would you like to Som Representative Hollins I'll waive. I'll go ahead and place the motion. All those in favor of passing out house Bill 80 to the floor. Say aye. Aye. All as opposed say nay. Nay. Will the ayes raise your hand? Representative Hollins Representative Stoddard.

36. Committee chair1:35:29

    So nine, nine to two. Thank you representative. Thank you. Hey, next item on our agenda