H.B. 120 Tail Light Obstruction Amendments: transcript

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I've got my intern here and we've got a, a couple of pictures we'd like to show. Is it okay if we hook up and, and have it be a part of our presentation? Sure. Okay. So, uh, I, I've gotta tell you that you guys, I think this is the first time I've been, uh, up here in, in front of the transportation committee, and it's a little different. But I gotta tell you, I just barely finished over in natural resources with a bill called Livestock Watering Amendments. And right at the tail end of it, I thought we were gonna find out from our good, uh, friend and colleague, uh, from a representative from Millcreek. How come he knows not to drink downstream from the herd? But, uh, all we got out of him was a good blush. And, uh, anyway, I I think we're gonna have to ask him about that. So, thi this bill is, uh, So, so that wasn't germane to your bill, was it? No, It could have been. I, maybe, I don't know. We didn't find out. So HB one 20, you guys is a bill. Uh, uh, a constituent of mine brought, uh, to me, he was concerned, uh, about a year ago. He was driving down the road in Roosevelt. And, uh, a, a vehicle in front of him he didn't realize was slowing down because it had, uh, it, you know, we, we've all seen, uh, there's been a lot of interest in, in bicycles, uh, uh, riding bikes out in the, in, in the area. Good exercise. Good way to get some fresh air. And, uh, it, uh, we've seen a, uh, uh, these racks that are on the back of our vehicles, uh, can have a numerous, um, uh, you know, a number of bicycles on there. And they obstructed the, the taillights on the vehicle that was going through town. And it was, uh, just as it was getting dark, and he almost ran into the back of this car, and he said, oh my gosh. He called me up and he says, Representative Chew. Do you know whether we, uh, have a, uh, uh, whether it, it, have we got a, uh, we should have some kind of, of, if we're gonna block the tail lights, if I have a tail light go out, I can, uh, I can be cited for not having proper, uh, sig or lights on the rear of my car, but if they get blocked, what do we do? What have we got anything, any statute that, that says that we need to do it? And I said, I don't know. So we investigated this and found out, yeah, we don't have one. So we have a short, a short bill here that, uh, says, um, that we, um, shouldn't have things, whether they're bicycles or, uh, just our car. The little cargo carriers on the back should not be blocking the, the taillights. And I was kind of hoping we, we could get some pictures that we had and show you what we were talking about. As, you know, some of these, uh, bicycles folks are, are using the, the tires are a lot thicker than they used to be. The, the obstruction is a lot, uh, more, um, prevalent. I guess it could, because the tires are bigger. Cars are a littler, but one thing that's happened that I'm sure some folks aren't aware of, some of these, uh, uh, bicycles or even motorcycles that are on the back of a car are pretty expensive pieces of equipment. They're, uh, you know, some of 'em upwards of, uh, of just a bicycle, two or 3,400 thou or $4,000. And people are finding tarps covers to put over 'em that blocks the entire rear of the vehicle. And what this does, it just says, Hey, don't do that. If you're gonna have something that blocks your taillights, have some auxiliary lighting on your carriers, I've seen carriers that have the lights and at a minimum have some reflectors back there. That's all it does. We don't wanna have somebody slam into the rear end of a, of a, of a family that's a, a bicycling family. 'cause they have slowed up or stopped on the road. And a, a vehicle behind them doesn't realize they're stopping. That's what it's about. Anyway, we had a couple of pretty good pictures and, uh, anyway, maybe we can get this to work. Certainly there's nothing I can do, but I can look at it when it shows up.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just wondering, does this affect small trailers? I see a lot of small trailers around that are open single axles that don't have rear tail lights or anything like that. We haven't really addressed them on this. We're talking o only the carriers here. Just the carriers. Okay. But, uh, I, I think we're, I think that's already covered, but I'm, I'm not, I'm not really up on that. Uh, okay. But, But this is just for those Carriers. But it is a concern, you know, uh, us in agriculture, we, we have an opportunity. We can have some of our, uh, farm equipment and stuff that, that doesn't have that, but we need to. But on our stuff, we have to have a red triangle, and it has to be visible, you know, from so far. And, uh, so yeah, we need to keep our roads safe. I mean, uh, and if I was gonna talk about what happens on the front end of it, sometimes high speeds and, and out on the, out on the range, we've got deer and, and livestock that might be on the road. So, yeah. Uh, but let's, let's, uh, not have some family slow up and somebody slam into the back of 'em because they couldn't see the taillights. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you very much for your work. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just trying to figure out how you herd sheep with a bicycle. I'm just trying to picture that in my Mind. So, you know, uh, these are some of the, the, the, what situations i, I run into up here when I explain something, I don't really, uh, understand how my audience is going to going to, uh, relate me and what I'm saying. So, uh, uh, I actually have never heard of the sheep on a bicycle, so I couldn't probably answer that question very well. He's probably got a picture. We'll see it here soon. I'm curious, so you're, you're speaking to bicycles, but this looks like it applies to any vehicle. What

We started out with just bicycles, uh, a representative. And, uh, that was what the initial concern was. As we got into it, we realized that these, uh, cargo carriers that are on the back also, uh, quite frequently block the taillights. And so we included them in there too. But yeah, we started out with by six, that was the initial concern. Uh, but it's all vehicles then? Yes. And it's, it's the lights or the license plate as well, or is it just the lights? We are only addressing the lights right here, so yeah, if it, okay. And if I, I couldn't say, that's an interesting question. You know, if that's something that we needed to include, I suppose we could, the way we have, uh, do things up here, but, but that's not, uh, what we were initially working on.

Okay. And then I'm just curious, 500 feet, why, why that Distance? Well, you know, that's what our reflectors are required on, like our semi trailers and stuff like that, so. Okay. Um, that's, that's a practical distance. We already got the standard there. I just wondered if that was how far a metal arc flies or,

Well, you know, just that could be, that could be, that's a different, uh, conversation you and I have had, uh, numerous times. Uh, We, we, we'll, we can test it out. All right then.

So representative, I understand, I was just told that the license plate part of your question was already in law, so, and my recommendation is that you get little reflective triangles for your sheep.

Okay. You know, that has been suggested, especially if we're on open range. But, uh, you know, with, uh, with virtual fencing and stuff, I think we're gonna have some few more options, but we probably have those collars that'll be, uh, uh, uh, reflective tape.

Okay. Thank you. Uh, you still working on the pictures, right? How about if we go to public comment and tell those come up?

That'd be all right. Oh, you got it. Oh, there it is. Okay. Yeah, So, so this is one of the, the pictures that we're taking that just kind of explained this, this slide. Uh, I, I believe my cons, uh, constituent that brought this forward to me, uh, didn't realize this vehicle was slowing down until he got right next to it. And you can see that the lights are pretty well hidden. Uh, go to the next one. Um, yeah, let's do that one. That, that one on the back of the Jeep just shows what, uh, mostly we had it just to explain what we're, uh, uh, talking about. But, uh, go to the next one. To the last one. Have you got the one that's got the, got the, yeah, there we go. Yeah, That one, This one here, these things are, are, are popping up and, uh, yeah, they, they are definitely not SeeThrough. Okay. Uh, that does it for you then on the, that, That, that's what we've got. That's what we

Sorry. That's okay. Uh, so the first picture you showed had a bicycle, and it looked like that the bicycle carrier had reflectors on it. So I'm assuming that you meant that as an example of a good thing.

Let, let, let's go back to, yeah, I'm, I haven't, uh, you know, we haven't initiated or we haven't said anything about how much is, is needed or any of that, and some of, of these, uh, this one here, yeah. Uh, And we could put that Back up. Some of these have lights. Some of these have lights on each side, the little red on each side. Right. Some of them have lights on them already. They're build up. They're, they're being a lot more, uh, what I guess, uh, road friendly, I would probably call it. Yeah. And, but yeah, that one has some, and, and we, we discussed a little bit, but we haven't got to the point about whether we need the same type of reflector flake, but in my mind, I'm thinking that our semi trailers have on them and our, our livestock trailers and stuff, we have the, the reflector tape on our tape on our trailers too.

Okay. So that was, that was kinda my question was like, it seems like that that example would be exactly what we want people to do, which is if you can't, if it's gonna cover up the lights, you gotta have least reflectors. And by the way, I did check the information that I got was that single axle trailers do have to have reflectors, but they don't have to have lights, so.

Yeah. Well, that's good to know. I'm, I'm glad you checked on that. Thanks. Yeah. So It's basically, it's, it's the same idea. Like if you've got something that's gonna make your brake lights obscured, you gotta have at least reflectors and lights would be better, but at least reflectors, Reflector.

Is that right? That's

right. What we intend, bill. Yeah.

Okay. This isn't The real reason I'm here, uh, for another bill, but my name is Jeff Sermon. I would just, uh, being an outdoors person a bit, the reflectors won't do any good unless it's 'cause they won't show the brake lights coming on. The only time reflectors help is at night, and your headlights will shine and reflect off it. But if I'm going down the road in the daytime, there's reflectors on the back, I can still put the brakes on. The brake lights come on. They're obscured and I still won't know as a person behind that vehicle that they're stopping. So it really needs to be brake lights.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, my name is, uh, Darrell Gilman. Okay. Hang on a sec. Uh, can we adjust that sound anyway? Is that the best we can do on the sound? Uh, it's really muffled, so speak real clearly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, my name is Darrell Gilman. I represent myself, and I'm here to speak in favor of House Bill one 20, Uh, that the good Representative Chew brought forward the last several years. Cargo racks and bike racks have got more and more popular and bigger to the point that some cargo is now blocking taillights on vehicles. This creates unsafe driving conditions. It doesn't matter if you're driving 80 down the interstate, 60 down the highway, or 30 down main Street. If you can't see the taillights of the vehicle in front of you, it is unsafe for them, you and all vehicles around them. What I like about this bill is it doesn't tell anyone that they cannot use bike racks or cargo racks. It only says that if you are going to carry loads that block these lights, you need to add additional safety lights. I would encourage your support of the bill. Thank you.

I'll make a motion. We pass out HB one 20 with a favorable recommendation.

Uh, nope. I think we worked it out pretty well.

Well, I appreciate the, the time of the committee here and stuff, but I gotta tell you, uh, I had, uh, one person, uh, uh, kid me a little bit about, uh, shouldn't your horse have a tail on or have a light on? I said, I think that's why they call 'em taillights, isn't it? So,

Was just teasing him. I said I, I think the representative from Millcreek would vote yes on this too.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This, uh, concern was brought to me by, uh, one of my, uh, constituents at home. He said he was driving down the road in the early evening and almost ran into the back of a vehicle that had some bicycles on the back of it. The tail lights were obstructed. Um, what it does is it just says if you, and, and as you know, if you notice ever since, um, COVID, a lot of folks wanna get out bicycles, both, uh, electric and regular and motorcycles are, are really, uh, popular. And they're, a lot of 'em are mounted on the back of vehicles. And quite frequently they do, uh, do obstruct the taillights and especially if they happen to have a, a canvas cover on 'em. Some folks like to cover 'em because they're pretty expensive piece of equipment, they like to take care of 'em. But Tructure lights, and it'd be a, a sad day to have a, a big truck slam into the back of a vehicle with a family in it just because they couldn't see the taillights. What it does, it says if you have have something on the back of your truck, a bike carrier or a cargo, uh, uh, hauling a piece of equipment that hides your taillights, you need to, at a minimum have, uh, reflector tape on it. But, uh, preferably would be lights. And that's what it does. Mr. Speaker,

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a question?

Yes. Chu Yes. Representative Lisonbee.

Thank you. Um, this is a, this is an interesting bill, Mr. Speaker, and I'm just wondering if the sponsor could speak to, if this would affect the obstruction of view from, say, somebody in the back of a school bus exposing themselves the bright light that would shine in the back. Would this obstruct views of that?

Well, actually, I've never been on the ba behind the bus when something like that happened.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a question

Yes, yes. Representative.

Um, will the fines be ex, um, executed after the public has had time to comply? Will they, I mean, or will they be charged in the first time offense?

So, uh, would, uh, would the good, uh, representative, please mind, uh, restating that question? I didn't quite hear it.

Oh, sorry about that, Mr. Speaker. Um, why penalize people on the first offense when they probably wouldn't know this rule?

So I would, uh, uh, I think the first offense that you're guilty if you're guilty, but I think that a, uh, uh, a peace officer would probably use his own discretion on whether to give a warning or, uh, if it would be a, uh, you know, a fineable offense. Uh, and maybe it would have to be determined in a court of law if you go to, uh, court with it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will a sponsor, yield

Coming from that side of the room? I'm a little bit hesitant, but yes, I will.

Thank, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, I appreciate the good sponsors efforts. I think this is really important, especially the covered cargo seems to make a lot of sense. My concern is the, the bill says a taillight, and, uh, if any, we have two taillights for a reason, so that if one is out or, or broken or, or obstructed, you can see the other taillight. So my concern is sometimes when you have bikes on the back of a, a truck or a car, which I frequently do, uh, you might from some angle have one light obstructed. Uh, to me the, uh, is the intent that if you can, if any of the light isn't, is obstructed or one side is obstructed, you're still guilty of this infraction?

Well, I did, I didn't intend for it to be if, uh, only one light was obstructed. But if we're, but as you know, uh, we have two lights on the back for our vehicles for a reason. One is, uh, so we can see which, uh, which way we're gonna be turning. But, um, I, if I remember correctly, we only required to have one brake light. So if one was, uh, was visible while we're probably, uh, would be okay there and would have a good argument if you happen to get cited for, uh, an infraction.

Thank you. Uh, my concern is on line 46. It, uh, uh, the bill says a tail light. And my con uh, i, I support the concept of the bill. I think it's very important, but, uh, I could support it as a sponsor would work with me to clarify that. If you can see, maybe through the bikes, you can still see at least one of the taillights at that 500 foot distance that you're not breaking the law to, to carry a bike on the back of your car.

Um, I'll waive

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that the following bill be lifted from the House Business and Labor Committee and reassigned to the House Health and Human Service Committee, HB two 70, healthcare Worker Post-Employment Amendments.

Uh, Mr. Speaker, uh, this bill was originally assigned to Business and Labor. Unfortunately, um, health and Human Services that's meeting tomorrow has a very light agenda and business and labor has a very heavy agenda. So, just for load balancing purposes, we agreed to move this bill around.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Personal privilege.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the, I appreciate the motion. You know, yesterday when I, I presented it, we had a lot of, uh, ruckus going on out in the hall. It was kind of hard to hear the questions and I wasn't sure I'd done an adequate job of answering the concerns of my, uh, colleagues on the floor. And I appreciate the opportunity to bring this back and, and address those uh, concerns.

Yes. I feel like we've had too much confusion on this bill and I think we need to work on it a little bit and, uh, we can make it so that people will, uh, appreciate it.