H.B. 122 Pregnant and Postpartum Inmate Amendments: transcript

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You're welcome. Uh, my intern has a flyer. Just bring him up. Okay.

Uh, good morning. Hope you're having a great Tuesday so far. Uh, this bill is a follow up to some of the work that we've done for the past two sessions as it relates to pregnant women who are incarcerated. And if you'll remember back at one point, there was a discussion around a prison, a prison nursery, that was pivoted to more of a diversion program in trying to give these women, uh, additional resources, uh, while also the other component of the original bill was not shackling pregnant women, uh, while they were incarcerated and limiting the type of restraints. So this bill is a follow-up and hopefully the, the bow on the policy that we can finalize. Um, but it just extend, expands that protection or extends that protection into postpartum recovery that the facility needs to use the least restrictive means necessary. Um, in terms of restraining these women, there is a carve out in, in cases of safety or security risks that are concerns, but that ideally we would not be shackling women while they're in recovery after having a baby. It also would extend the ability for them to have access to a social worker, uh, to discuss childcare, ification and substance abuse treatment plans if needed for up to 12 weeks postpartum. Uh, and then the other thing that this bill does that I think is important is it actually will then start collecting the number of inmates in custody who are women, uh, who are parents to a child and who are pregnant. Because right now it's anecdotal and something we have to go and track down, uh, talking to the different jails and then also the prison. Um, and then I just also wanna highlight that because of the work that we've done in this area, it's really exciting. There are 14 mothers who were paroled early. 11 mothers were able to be, uh, united permanently with their child. And almost 90% have graduated from a substance, uh, use treatment program. And we have saved $200,000 in taxpayer dollars. And we have, um, with that there are 1300 days of prison that were prevented for these women. Uh, which I think this shows us looking at them as the whole person and becoming a mother, uh, instills a great motivation in many cases to improve your life. And that's what we're seeing in this program. And I'm excited about the work it's doing. Thank you. Does that conclude your presentation? It does.

You know, that's a great question. There are a lot of states that have different approaches to this. When we were looking initially at nurseries in prisons, there were a couple states that are well known for having, uh, baby nurseries and lockdown facilities. But more and more states are moving towards a diversion program. And so, yes, there are other states that are doing diversion programs, kind of like a halfway house that would allow a woman after she gives birth to a baby if she meets certain requirements that they'd be able to do this. But I do think this is, I've been excited by how quickly we've turned this around and the numbers we're already seeing.

You know, this was something that came from the pre and postnatal advisory, uh, board that we created is one of their recommendations. I do know when I worked on this, uh, it varied on what type of restraints, uh, generally speaking, when someone was pregnant in that final trimester, that wasn't something that we were seeing across the board, but postpartum, um, we haven't seen, uh, a lot of people who are doing this, but it still is an issue. And so we're just clarifying it to make sure that's the case.

Yeah. Uh, and we have that range six to 12 weeks, and, you know, if that's something this committee is interested in, we can absolutely look at it. Generally speaking, from a postpartum recovery perspective, your body is still healing. I mean, up to a year and then some, but generally speaking, those first three months, you're still very tender. And also, um, uh, having to hold a certain position might actually be very uncomfortable. And so 12 weeks is usually kind of the standard of when you're looking at that initial recovery, uh, and that's why we've landed it 12 weeks. So

Help? Yeah, so, so again, this came from the postnatal and, um, advisory committee that we put together because there are some areas that they would say, well, you've now given birth to a baby, this, you would be, um, eligible for those additional restraints. And the law is silent on that. And so that's why we're carving that out. Generally though, you go in after having a baby, um, for a regular checkup, uh, up and after the 12 week point, then it's a longer period for checkup. And so the 12 weeks is not just for the restraints though, that's also to give them access to, um, the social worker. And because right now it's just up to six weeks.

Thank you Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Um, marina Lowe on behalf of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, otherwise known as acog, um, ACOG is the leading professional membership organization for OBGYNs Champions OBGYNs in providing equitable evidence-based care for patients today and into the future. ACOG's mission is to support our members to improve the lives of all people seeking obstetric and gynecological care, their families and their communities. Acog Utah supports HB 1 22 pregnant and postpartum inmate amendments because it seeks to improve care provided to pregnant and postpartum women incarcerated in Utah's County jails. In particular, we appreciate the requirement to account for the number of pregnant inmates in Utah jails, as well as the expansion of postpartum recovery time. Adequate recovery time is critical for healing from the immense physical effort of childbirth, and also leads to better physical and mental health outcomes for both parents and children. And it ultimately lowers healthcare costs for the state. We therefore encourage your support of HB 1 22. Thank you.

Uh, bill Co. Bill Koco. I'm a retired pediatrician speaking for myself. Um, I appreciate this bill. And I think we are working toward, uh, even better solutions. We have to consider the, uh, second prisoner the child that's being carried by the mother, uh, who obviously is also incarcerated, and, uh, who is as, as clearly innocent of any crimes. Um, and, and one of the things that I would suggest is that the, as we report pregnancy, this information also be, um, channeled to the, uh, sentencing, uh, judge and to the, uh, board of pardons. I I wanna make one point about the emotional cost, the infant, especially when the infant's in the womb, but also when the infant's at the breast. But the mother's emotional responses also, uh, resonate with the child. When the mother's heart is beating fast, so is the child when the mother is fearful, the child is experiencing those hormones. Um, and so we've got a, um, second prisoner that we have to care for. And, uh, this bill goes part of the way. Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. My name's Mark Moffitt. I am a here on behalf of the Utah Defense Lawyers Association, and we are here to speak in support of HB 1 22. And we very much appreciate Representative Marucci's work in this area. Um, the outcomes that are she has cited are the primary reason why we are supportive of this bill. We think that, that the way that, um, mothers are being treated, um, under the bills that she has passed is provided for far better outcomes. And so we would encourage the committee's support. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee. Um, my name's Richard Mor. I'm the Executive Director of the Salt Lake Legal Defender Association. Uh, speaking in support of the bill, um, we probably, my, the clients that we serve, prob we probably have more pregnant women in jail than any other organization or agency in the state. This is good public policy, prenatal care and postnatal care are critical and important, both for the mother and the child as has been indicated. So we would, uh, speak in favor and ask that you support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, if I may have a point of personal privilege. Sure. Thank you. As a floor sponsor for this bill. Um, I'm just grateful that, uh, representative Pucci is continuing to work to make sure that our mothers and that humanity is served through this bill. And, you know, by, um, by any measure, um, we, I guess I wanted to share with you the, the statement from Moha mug Gani, who said, the true measure of any society can be found and how it treats its most vulnerable members. So I thank you for this bill. And with that, I would make the motion that we pass out with a favorable recommendation house Bill 1 22.

I know the Department of Corrections and our jails, uh, they've come along on this and I appreciate them participating in this. And, and also I think we talk about being a pro-life state, and this is one of those things that we can do to show that, uh, and having this balance of justice and mercy. And I think I've been really excited to see, uh, the rates of success and graduation coming outta this program in mothers who are able to rebuild their lives and be able to raise their child. So I appreciate the committee's support.

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you committee, and I appreciate your good work on this issue. If you're familiar with this, many of you have been on this committee for several years. Uh, a couple years ago, it started out as a policy I'd worked on that would prohibit our, uh, correctional facilities from Shackling and or restraining pregnant inmates. Um, and since then we have worked through a lot of different issues. Uh, working with the Department of Corrections. This bill is a refile from something we'd worked on last year, but over time we've taken those recommendations that have come that try and consider the health and safety of the unborn baby, as well as, um, the health and wellness of the mother, while also acknowledging the need for justice and law and order. So I've tried to thread that needle. Uh, I will just say as someone who believes strongly in being pro-life, not just pro-birth, I think this is really important policy and also as a pro-family bill. Um, and a lot of these recommendations came from the Correctional, postnatal, and Early Childhood Advisory Board, which was in the earlier policies that we've passed. And this committee is championed. So this bill is a follow up to that, and it should be the final bill we run. If you remember last year, we now require jails, uh, to provide pregnancy tests to female inmates who are under the age of 50. This is that next and final step. So, uh, working, uh, with Department of Corrections in our jails, this will require that DOC and county jails report to CCJJ, the number of known pregnant inmates in custody. As we don't have that data, a lot of it's anecdotal or just, you know, oh, I have this many, uh, female inmates who are pregnant and it's just the numbers that are floating out there. And then the number of female inmates who have, um, children already or who are parents to a minor child. It also extends the postpartum recovery period to 12 weeks. And in doing so, it would, uh, prohibit the restraining of an inmate who is in postpartum recovery, unless, of course there are certain security risks, uh, or safety risks that are determined that they need to have those restraints on them. And then it does, uh, increase the period of time that, uh, in the county jails, these women would be able to access a social worker from six weeks to 12 weeks to make sure that they've arranged childcare, potentially establish a reunification plan, and also help establish a substance abuse treatment plan. And that is the bill in a nutshell.

Thank you, representative. We, uh, I mean, this would be kind of disappointing if this were the last one we're getting you. It's been four years in a row, so.

Uh, representative. I was just curious. I looked at the fiscal note and you're extending the social care, but the fiscal note is zero. So how, how did you get a zero fiscal note when you're extending all this from six weeks to 12 weeks?

Magic. Very strange. I'm just kidding. Uh, so when this Uintah the agency, I think most of them just assume they could absorb it. This is happening maybe 11 to 14 times throughout the state, so we're not talking about a high number. And so just adding that availability for the next six weeks, um, felt like it could be absorbed. I will say though, there's an important amendment. Uh, the Department of Corrections just reached out to me. It's on line one 12. Uh, right now it reads the number of prisoners, and they would like us to add the number of female prisoners because they just caught that and said that would add a high fiscal note to try and track all that information. So when the moment is right, Mr. Chair, I would love that amendment.

Thank you. Chair Wilcox and members of the committee. My name is Marina Lowe, and today I'm representing the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, otherwise known as acog. Um, ACOG is the leading professional membership organization for OBGYNs, ACOG Champions OBGYNs in providing equitable evidence-based care for patients today and into the future. ACOG's mission is to support our members to improve the lives of all people seeking obstetric and gynecological care, their families and communities. Acog Utah supports HB 1 22 because it seeks to improve care provided to pregnant and postpartum women incarcerated in Utah's County jails and prisons. In particular, we appreciate the requirement to account for the number of pregnant inmates in Utah's jails in prison, as well as the expansion of the postpartum recovery time. Adequate recovery time is critical for healing from the immense physical effort of childbirth, and also leads to better physical and mental health outcomes for patients, sorry for parents and for children, and ultimately lowers healthcare costs for the state. And so we would encourage your support of HB 1 22. Thank you.

Thank you Chair. And, uh, thank you, uh, representative PCI for running this bill. My name is Jasmine Charles. Uh, I'm a resident of South Salt Lake, and I'm here today to speak on behalf of myself. I'm not of my place of work. Um, I happen to practice as a physician assistant here in the state of Utah, and am the, um, co-founder and the clinical director for what is known as Super Rad, the substance use and pregnancy recovery addiction dependence clinic. That also has afforded me the opportunity for the last eight and a half years to be the primary healthcare provider for the women who are pregnant in both our prisons and jails here in the state of Utah and surrounding states. I'm here to speak, uh, on behalf of, of myself to support this bill and let you know that things that I have learned over the years are demonstrating that the ability to extend this care from six weeks to 12 weeks will be the ability to to decrease, uh, poor outcomes. The number one cause of maternal mortality here in the state of Utah in the first year postpartum is overdose and suicide. With the ability to have access to the services for the full 12 weeks, for the few women that there are remaining incarcerated during that time, time would afford the opportunity to have equal opportunity and access to discuss, uh, recidivism and mental health and decrease our postpartum depression and psychosis rates. Um, also helping to reduce the rates of preeclampsia, um, happening postpartum and hemorrhage risk. So I am in, in great support. Um, would also like to, to speak to the support of being able to know the actual numbers we have within our systems. When we know the impact as a society, we were able to help make an impact, giving people the opportunity to have more days to live and, and, and be family friendly. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. A motion to adopt amendment one.

Uh, provides a good clarifying detail to make the bill clearer, so thank you.

Yes. I just wanna commend the, the sponsor because, um, your work in this space has had a tremendous impact. I have a, uh, some information from the Department of Corrections that due to last year's bill alone, um, 14 mothers are paroled early 12, more than 1200 days of prison are prevented zero of these mothers return to prison, um, more than $190,000 of taxpayer dollars are saved. Um, 88% of the mothers graduate from substance use and 11 infants reunited with their mother. And I just say thank you, because that represents a lot of money that taxpayers don't have to pay, but it represents families who, um, are, are engaged in, in the wellbeing and success of, of someone who's been incarcerated. So I really appreciate you extending this too, um, to our jails and trying to get the data. I think that helps to know where things can improve. So thank you.

Yeah, absolutely. So, just briefly this morning, I actually had a mom call me. Uh, she said, what can I do to help with this bill? And she shared that her daughter over a decade ago, uh, was pregnant and incarcerated. And she said it was a horrible experience, and her daughter, uh, has since died. And, um, while this might be a small portion of our population, it is part of our population. And I think in a state that prides ourselves on being pro-family, we can do all that we can and try to help these moms develop those relationships and have healthy lifestyles so they can grow to be the mothers that their children deserve. And I appreciate, uh, Representative Ballard sharing those data points. I didn't have them on hand, and I'm glad to be able to highlight the good work that this committee's done in this body.

Yes. Thank you very much for bringing this bill forward. I've actually received some emails on this topic, and I knew you'd be the one to make the fixes for it, so thank you. And I also knew that Representative Ballard would say everything that I didn't say. I think it's probably good that those of you that have birth children are making the motions on this.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, colleagues. Uh, this bill is a follow up to, uh, many years of work that we have done in this body, and I'm excited to report back on it and hopefully this will be the final bill that we do. Um, but if you'll remember at one point in time, there was discussion around a nursery in the prison for women who were incarcerated and pregnant. And we pivoted away from that and moved towards the diversion program. And I'm really excited that the data that we're getting back already is encouraging that we have seen that of the 14 mothers who were in this program, uh, 14, were able to be paroled early, zero of them, uh, return back to prison or committed another crime, and 11 of them were able to successfully be reunited with their baby and, um, go on to lead productive lives, which I think is fantastic in a way that we can help these women, uh, who are in this position. So this bill is just revisiting this discussion and making sure that we are able to collect the information on the number of women that we have who are incarcerated, that are pregnant, and also extends. Um, if you'll remember, we have passed legislation that you cannot shackle a woman while she is pregnant, uh, in labor. And, uh, this extends postpartum recovery so that she wouldn't be shackled for up to 12 weeks. Um, of course, though we have for extenuating circumstances where if there's security risks that can be adjusted by the incarceration facility, either the prisoner, the jail, uh, but tries to make that and also gives her access, uh, with a social worker so that she can arrange childcare and also discuss a reunification plan. Um, and if needed, a substance abuse plan. I'm excited about this bill and the way that this policy and program program have developed. A lot of these women, uh, who were incarcerated were in there on drugs and have been able to, uh, be rehabilitated. 88% of them have graduated from a substance use, uh, excuse me, a substance abuse rehabilitation program. And we have saved almost $200,000 in taxpayer dollars in just a short amount of time this program has been operating. So I would ask for my colleague support on this bill.

You. This bill expands protections for pregnant and postpartum inmates by defining a 12 week recovery period limiting restraints and ensuring that the continued health and care and support of the mother is present. The, this would help 14 mothers be paroled early and have zero mothers return to prison. 88% of mothers graduated from the substance use treatment and 1,229 days of prison were prevented. Um, 190,495 taxpayer dollars are saved, um, through the, through this program and 11 infants were reunited with their mother. And with that, I'll conclude my presentation.

Um, thank you. I uh, I make a motion that this be read for a third time. And the question is, shall house bill 1 22 be read for a third time? Roll call vote.

our postpartum inmates by defining a 12 week recovery period limiting restraints and ensuring that continued healthcare and support services are provided to our inmate, um, mothers. And with that, I conclude my presentation.

I move that house Bill. 1 22 shall pass.

Uh, uh, this, uh, we had a good debate,