H.B. 123 Sex, Kidnap, and Child Abuse Offender Registration Amendments: transcript

First substitute Representative Acton. Thank you Mr. Chair and Committee for hearing these bills today. Both of these came to my attention because of my association with the Interstate Compact Commission, and I think they're both pretty simple. But, um, the first one, HP 1 23 sub one, um, it simply clarifies that if an out-of-state offender comes to Utah, who was on the sex offender registry in his prior state, um, and the offense would require them to be on the sex offender registry in Utah, that they, they should be on the sex offender registry here as well. And the reason this is necessary is that some have interpreted our current statute differently. And, um, because of that, in part, we're kind of, we have a growing reputation as kind of a sex offender friendly kind of state. Um, we're actually in the top 10 of sex offender friendly states. So, um, this bill just clarifies that if an offender comes to Utah from out of state, they are required to be on the sex registry. And it is kind of a public safety issue, obviously. And it also makes compliance more likely and effective. It does not involve a new program, and there's no fiscal note. So that concludes my presentation.

Barley Jones, director of the Victim Services Commission. Um, I've also been authorized to speak on behalf of CCJJ. We're in support of this bill. We feel like this clarification is important and it will promote victim and public safety. So we're in support. Thank you. Got here Afterwards.

Please Chair members of the committee. My name is Felix Espinoza and I'm here on behalf of Utah for Rational tax Defense laws in opposition to HB 1 23. The foundation this bill rest on is nothing more than anecdotes, unsubstantiated claims, unnamed sources, and unverified assertions across five separate meetings. The sponsor score factual assertions in the sanctuary state ranking, the number of offending judges and interstate complaints from other states were never documented during the House Judiciary Committee meeting sponsor herself stated, I don't know the veracity of the claim. Let me ask again. What is the source of your claim for the nine of 10, uh, sanctuary state, uh, that Utah is in Sponsor offers a trench she never quantified, presumed, but never demonstrated actual harm. And a solution adopted, but never compared to anything else. The only quantitative evidence in the record is two data points we pointed out in which out-of-state registrants were of 6.4% of Utah's registry in 2005 and 13% in 2025, with no annual trend data between them in comparison to national averages. When pressed on the sources, the sponsor admitted it came from her own research. Research She conceded, she did not verify a number of other governmental bodies have endorsed this bill without demanding verification of the sponsor's claims, creating a cascade of institutional legitimacy. The justification that one, two judges have misinterpreted the state statute raises its own questions. Does a handful of judicial interpretations in a system with hundreds of judges constitute a systemic problem requiring statutory overhaul on the basis of this evidence free legislation. We explicitly asked this committee and the Senate to undertake the scrutiny and asked the questions that no prior body did as a check that was absent elsewhere. Thank You. Thank you.

No, I was gonna make a motion. Okay. Please. Uh, I move that we pass that with a favorable recommendation. First substitute house bill. 1, 2, 3 to the full body of the Senate.

Yes. I would just say, yeah, I don't recall any conversation with this organization that, that alleges to have talked to me about these things. And I think, I think he was quoting the House committee hearing. Okay. 'cause he did talk about the sponsor and I'm okay. I'm, so, anyway, um, but it has, this bill does have agreement from CCJJ, the sentencing commission, the Interstate Compact Commission and Swap. And I would just appreciate your support.

Waive. Alright. All

Uh, Before me, but yes. Is it online? It's Okay, but I did see it right before. Okay.

Okay. Um, this, I serve on the, um, interstate compact commission where we talk about inmates transferring across states and so forth. And that's how this bill came to me. But, um, all states do have different rules when it comes to sex registry. And it's not just sex, it's sex kidnap and child abuse registry. And so, um, it can be difficult sometimes when they move to a different state or when our inmates move to a different state. Um, some move, sometimes they may choose to avoid registry requirements or they may be moving because of work or family situations or whatever. So, but a failure to register can lead to new federal charges. So it's a very serious thing. But this bill is quite simple. Um, actually Utah made the list, unfortunately, of sex offender friendly states and we don't really want that reputation. We were number nine out of 10 and I don't know how scientifically that was, you know, listed, but, um, we do have some pretty strong rules on our registry. But the issue is other inmates from other states may choose to come to Utah and have chosen in some cases to come to Utah because, um, it may be a little more lenient, but this doesn't really change anything. This bill, what it does is it, it emphasizes four judges. There are one or two judges in Utah who have misinterpreted the statute or interpreted differently, I guess I should say. So this will clarify what the rules are on allowing, uh, a sex offender to stay off the registry, for example, when they come in from outta state. So this is a public safety issue and it makes compliance more effective and more likely. Um, it's not a new program, there's no fiscal note, et cetera, but it does clarify that they are required to register in Utah, even if the state they moved from did not require registration. And, um, that's really mostly what this bill does. And, and because we had to make it so clear, that's why we have the amendment, just to make sure it was crystal clear. Okay. Does that conclude your Presentation? That concludes my presentation. Thanks.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam. Did I do it right? Uh, no. So I, I think I got this. So, uh, someone's outta state, they commit a sex offense, but that in that state, you know, say they're from like Oregon, they don't recognize that as a registrable offense, but they come here and we recognize that same offense is registerable. They have to register here. That's Correct. Got it.

That answered my question. Thank you. Thank

That's okay. I Can do that. Cheryl, or sorry, representative.

I'm Megan Mills. I'm here with the statewide Association of Prosecutors. We're just grateful for the bill. It does. We've heard of the same problems with it being misinterpreted, and we're glad that this clarifies it and we support it.

Good afternoon, Madam Chair Marly Jones. I'm the Director of the Victim Services Commission. We are in support of this bill for just the no nonsense approach to making sure that the rules are understood and that the public safety is upheld, and that hopefully we're preventing additional victims for those that might be coming here for any of the reasons, aside from all the wonderful reasons to live in Utah. So we are in support of it and, and hope that you'll vote for it to keep Utah safe and wonderful as it is. Thank you.

Yes, hi. Thank you. Can you hear me? Now? We can hear you. Thank you. Yes. So, uh, thank you, uh, chair members of the committee. Uh, so my name is Felix Espinoza. Um, I'm here on behalf of Utah for rational sex offense laws in opposition to HP 1 23. Uh, as Representative Acton had indicated, uh, Utah is, uh, nine out of, uh, 10 on a list. Um, but more specifically, where does this list come from? Um, uh, what verifiable or, um, evidence-based list does is, is this, um, coming from, uh, Utah is one of 10 states with no sex offender, uh, registry, residency restrictions. I don't know if that's the list that she's referring to, but that certainly does not qualify for the specific issue that she's speaking to. And she also mentioned between one to four judges, uh, have, uh, been known to let, um, individuals off of the registry when moving from out of state to Utah. But, uh, one to four judges out of how many judges that does not represent a systemic issue or a systemic problem needed in order to, um, ask legislation that is broad over, uh, over the entire state of Utah. Um, so that's, uh, those are some of the questions I've tried to reach out to, uh, Representative Acton. I've received no response. I've tried to reach out to several different, uh, state, um, uh, state organization. No response.

Seth Stewart.

Thank you. Motion to favorably recommend HB 1 23 Sub one.

Oh, sorry. Motion to amend HB 1 23 sub one. Thank You.

Waive.

Motion to favor, favorably recommend HB 1 23 sub one as amended to the house.

I, um, I will just say that I, first, I, it's entirely possible that I did Miss Felix's email. I'm not sure when it came. I apologize for that. But, um, and as far as being number nine out of 10 on the list, that was my own kind of research. And as I said, I, I don't know the, the veracity of that claim, but I do know that we do not want Utah to become known as a sanctuary state for sex offenders. And there's some evidence that that may be happening. And so I think it's important for us to clarify the law.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This bill concerns, yes, the registry that we're all familiar with and those individuals who transferred to Utah through the Interstate Compact Commission from other jurisdictions. And when they arrive, um, some have, the problem is that some officials have misinterpreted our current statute and believe or, or do not believe that they are required then to go onto our sex registry while they're here. And this has contributed to a kind of growing reputation as, um, for Utah to be kind of a sex offender friendly kind of state. And I don't, I know that's not our intention. That's never been the intention. And, and I think that is a misinterpretation. Nonetheless, this bill clarifies that if an offender comes to Utah from out of state, they are required to be on the Sex offender registry. So this is a public safety issue and it makes compliance more likely and more effective. It's not a new program and it has no fiscal note. It also has the agreement of the CCJJ, the sentencing commission, the Interstate Compact Commission swap, and even the defense attorneys do not oppose it. So, I, with that, I'm open for questions.

I just, uh, hope that we can make sure that Utah is not a sort of sec, a sanctuary state for sex offenders in the future. And I would appreciate your support. Thank you.

Bill. It clarifies that an out if an OUTTA state offender on probation or parole transfers to Utah, they're required to be on Utah sex offender registry. As some have interpreted the current statute differently, allowing some sex offenders to stay off the registry. So this bill helps with the need for public safety and compliance. There's no physical note to it. It's not a new program. Um, c JJs the sentencing Commission Interstate Compact Commission and swap all approve and, uh, support this bill.

Thank you Mr. President. I'd like to move a substitute in my name.

Thank you, Mr. President. This, uh, substitute, uh, adds an additional technical clarification to the same area of code resolves confusion, um, created during last year's reification. Uh, the same stakeholders that the good senator mentioned, um, that are in support of, uh, the changes in the original sub are also in support of, of these changes.

Yes, I'm Amina Wolf. To to that it seems like it, it's only appropriate that we Thank you. Make sure. Thank you. Thank you. We're looking

You. Aye. A rise in support of the bill and the substitute of Bill. We don't want to be a magnet state. We don't want, um, convicted sex offenders from other state moving to Utah because they think it's gonna be more advantageous for 'em. So I think that these are some important and necessary changes and I'll be voting.

I'm going to go to you summation in a motion. I'll waive summation and call the question.

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Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move to refuse to concur with and ask the Senate and ask the Senate to recede from their amendments.

That sounds so exciting and I appreciate the response but it's actually very simple. Um, the sub that they adopted has a serious flaw. They now realize it as well. And so we just need a quick conference to undo that and that's what this is about.

Mr. Speaker, the joint conference committee comprises of Senator Vickers, Winterton Owens and Pitcher and Representative Acton Dunnigan and Arthur recommend second substitute house bill 1 23 be replaced and favorably recommends third substitute house bill 1 23, sex, kidnap and child abuse offender registration amendments. Respectfully. Senator Winterton and Representative Acton.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move to adopt the conference committee report.

Yes. This is the bill that clarifies that an offender transferring to Utah from out of state must be registered on our sex offender registry. And, um, what happened? It was a, a anyway, we had, we adopted the third substitute, which was identical to the bill that we passed here, which was the first substitute. But due to a very technical timestamp issue within the system, we had to do a third sub. And so it is back to where it was when we passed it through the house.