H.B. 170 School Board Referendum Amendments: transcript

as HB one 70 School Board referendum amendments. Uh, Mr. Chair and Committee, happy to be here, uh, to discuss this, uh, important bill, uh, as a kind of a prefe, uh, preface. Uh, this went Uintah, a different committee last year, government ops, and we passed this through the house side last year. And so I'm bringing it back with very little change. But what it, what it is, it's a, a referendum process for our, uh, LEAs for school boards. Uh, probably the only legislative body in the state that does not have the referendum process in place. Uh, so it does have an exception, uh, just like, uh, our legislature does is, uh, on any local laws, uh, which the school board does or, or tax increases or new taxes. Uh, if the school board gets a super majority, then, then they cannot run a referendum. Uh, so, uh, for an example, uh, my, the school district that, uh, my family lives in, they have a seven member board. And so if they, uh, make a decision on whatever it is, and they get at least five, uh, of the seven, uh, that can't be referred, but it's just on split split votes. And, uh, so, uh, there are, as you know, with referendums, there are certain threshold signature thresholds, depending on the number of registered voters in the area, as to how many signatures, what percentage of the signatures they need to get. Uh, it requires the districts, uh, that are involved with these to distribute the voter pamphlets with the, the fiscal impact statements and arguments for and against. It's up to the school district to put those together. Uh, so basically, uh, it's just about transparency and the will of the people. We all represent our constituents in our districts. And, uh, so if, if we're in a situation where there's a discussion and, uh, a decision made that, uh, where you have the split vote and, uh, the people don't like it, they can get the signatures and the time periods, and it allows them to then take the decision to, uh, vote of the people. So, that is my presentation, Mr. Chair, and I'm open to any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee for the time today. Billy Hesterman with the Utah Taxpayers Association wanna speak in favor of the legislation. Uh, as you know, about 60% or a little bit more of everyone's property tax bill is usually the school district portion of it. And for the voters to not have an ability to, uh, you know, have a, a recourse if they disagree with the decision made by the elected officials is something that's been missing for a while in our state code. And so we welcome the, uh, uh, the addition here and, uh, the ability for the largest portion of our property tax bill to actually, uh, have a, a, I guess, pull in case of emergency option. Uh, one thing that does give us pause is the super majority requirement, not because we disagree with it, we just worry that the other entities might come back and ask for it also. So that is one thing that, uh, um, I would just point out that we'll wanna watch out for, is we, we probably wouldn't wanna set that as a standard that, uh, a county commission that has three commissioners could maybe argue that they have a super majority with a two to one vote. So we wouldn't want to head down that road too far. So, but again, we hope you'll move it forward and think it's a good, a good piece of legislation.

Good afternoon. My name is Todd Haber. I'm the business administrator for Granite School District and the legislative liaison for the U Asbo Group. Uh, we appreciate, uh, the aspects of this bill that are coming for you, especially the super majority, even though that might be questionable for other groups. Uh, but that is helpful. The, we do wanna bring a concern to the, uh, to the current language. And that is that the referendum that's introduced in the bill does not coincide very well with a tax increase filing requirements. So if you, uh, decide to make a, a tax increase as a board, and it's, uh, then subject to this referendum process, the time of collecting the signature, certifying the signatures, going to, uh, an election on the, on the bill, does not accommodate the fact that we have to file, uh, for the increase, put the notices, put the tax bills together. Those, those timing, uh, arrangements don't work at all. And so what you could end up with is a referendum that fails in the election, but since the district has missed all the filing deadlines to actually impose the tax increase, we would not be able to impose the tax increase. So you have the same effect of a successful rent referendum and a failed referendum, meaning that in neither case, the school district would not be able to increase taxes. And so, so we just need to figure out the timing so that, that makes sense, uh, under this referendum process. Thank you.

Yes. Th thank you. Uh, on that timing, do you have any recommendations on, on how we can make that work

There? I don't, I'd have to sit down with a, an actual calendar to figure it out. The timing for a fiscal year entity is really tight because we have to, uh, uh, submit our increases and go through the truth and taxation process that was described earlier. That's in August, right? And a referendum, if someone were then to referendum at that point, they have what the 10 days, uh, to, to notice. And it, it, we we're just outta sync. And I don't know what the remedy is at this point. Uh, uh, I guess we could prob maybe line it up with how we do it with cities, towns, probably, probably that would, that would work. So maybe we can look at that.

Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. Justin Lee, uh, deputy Director of Utah League of Cities and Towns. And really, this is just an answer to representative Kyle's question. Um, 28 7, 6 13, uh, about a decade ago, this, this came into play just trying to figure out how to do a, a referendum on a property tax for a city. 'cause we were running into situations where a city's budget was basically frozen for a year and a half while they were trying to figure that out. So we did put in place an expedited process. Uh, so that may be one that, uh, legislative research, uh, representative would wanna look at as something you could mirror. Uh, so we figured out a way to make sure it gets on the ballot quickly and gets taken care of that fall instead of having to wait for a year and a half. So there is a mechanism for that. Okay.

Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to hold the bill until this can be resolved, and I just wanted to see what the sponsor might, uh, say about that.

Yeah, you know, I hadn't, uh, thought about that. That wasn't discussed last year when this went through. Uh, I'm certainly happy to work on, uh, something like that. Uh, uh, of course, we have a senate committee to get to. We could get that ready and, uh, address it in the Senate if we, or, or which would, what I'd prefer. So we can keep this moving, and I would commit to do that, but I'll leave that up to the committee.

Yes. I, I support this bill. I think it, it's good. But I do also think that, you know, we should work out the issues and committee, so I think we figure it out. Bring it back real quick. It won't take very much time to pass. I think we have a lot of time left in the session to, to make it happen. So I, I'd support the motion, but I also, I support the bill too. I, I, I wanna see it be successful, so, okay.

Yeah, final comment. I appreciate the comment and, uh, willing to do the work. We are always encouraged to do the work in committee, and, uh, we can get something ready. I can get with the drafting attorney and maybe with, uh, uh, the gentleman that made the suggestion to figure out exactly what they did. And happy to do that. Thank you.

Thank you, chairman McKay. Appreciate you having me here today. Uh, HB one 70, uh, it's a very large bill, 3 30, 300 pages, or not pages, 3,300 lines, but it's really quite simple. Uh, uh, it has to do with referendum. It's, uh, the bill is HB one 70 School Board referendum Amendments. And basically, uh, all this bill does is sets up a process that school boards are subject, gonna be subject to referendums. School boards are the only legislative body in the state that is not subject to a referendum process. Uh, uh, and they certainly are subject to the truth and taxation. Uh, but I've had a lot of, uh, comments from citizens all over the state about the fact that, yeah, we can go, we can go complain about, uh, a, a particular legislative law or a tax, uh, increase, but that's it. You know, they, they can vote it out. And even if it's a split vote, uh, most stool boards in the state are seven member boards. And so, uh, it doesn't matter if three of the school board members are not in favor of it, that still would pass. So this just does what everything else, uh, in the, in the legislature, uh, the, uh, uh, our, even our own legislature is subject to referendums, city councils, county commissions, uh, county, uh, all of them are subject to referendums. And, uh, so it doesn't necessarily mean every law's gonna be referendum or referred, but, uh, uh, so anyway, it, uh, it has within the bill and it's always been there, uh, an opportunity to do an expedited referendum, uh, if necessary. That's done entirely by mail. Uh, but most of the time those referendums are gonna happen at the next general election or municipal election. So, I'm open to any clarifying questions. Um, Mr. Chair.

Uh, I don't, Mr. Chair. Okay. Uh, the one thing I do know is there are some, uh, increases, like tax increases that cannot be referred, uh, that have already, that already goes to the public. You know, a school bond, you know, that's certainly voted on by the people. So people can't come back and say, well, I want to run a referendum on that decision. No, that can't be done. And there's also judgements, uh, uh, judges that make judgements that have to do with those types of things. They can't be referred as well. So this just has to do with, uh, local levy stuff, stuff that the school board can do on their own, lease revenue bonds and things like that. Uh, so, uh, I'm not aware of, of, uh, any Supreme Court decision, Mr. Chair. Okay. No, I appreciate that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Billy Hesterman with the Utah Taxpayers Association. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you this morning. I wanna speak in favor of this legislation. As we've looked at the property tax bill, generally across the state, the school districts make up about 60% of a property tax bill for any resident. And to not have that ability to be able to pull the in case of emergency valve, uh, to help give some relief to taxpayers, has been concerning to us. And so we're grateful that, uh, Representative Shipp has worked on this for a number of years, and now has gotten to a point where we think that this can be a, a workable process, uh, including that super majority provision, and then also, uh, including language that matches what cities do if they, uh, need an expedited process. And so, uh, we're seeing some things that have made this, that we believe can be workable for the districts. I'll be uncomfortable for them. Uh, we hope that it's not something that's done all the time, but at least it's something that is available as a tool for the taxpayers when, when a time may arise. And so with that, we hope you'll support it.

Great. My name is Todd Huber. I'm the business administrator for Granite School District and the legislative liaison for U Asbo. Uh, to your question on the case, What is U Asbo Utah Association of School Business Officials. Okay, Thank you. Perfect. Running low on acronyms up here, so it's, it's always good to keep them, uh, clear from you all. Thank you. Alright. The, uh, the court case that you had referred to in the Supreme Court, uh, was from 2022. It was Lord versus Salt Lake County Clerk Jordan School District in Salt Lake County. Assessor. Uh, in that ruling, uh, an emergency relief was, uh, sought from a school district tax increase, and they did cite the constitution that the school district is, uh, not subject to the referendum process. Uh, that was, uh, again, to answer the question you had raised earlier, uh, we're also, uh, in opposition to the bill. We're, our concern mainly is with the timing of the, of a referendum and the tax process, or the truth and taxation process. Even if we use the mail-in ballot election process, there is not sufficient time to conclude an election and be able to, uh, put the information on a tax notice that the taxpayers have to pay by November 30th. Uh, which Effectionately says, all you have to do is file for a referendum. And it doesn't matter what the outcome of the election is, whether it fails or prevails, we would not have sufficient time to put any information on a tax notice. Uh, so at least the tax provisions of this bill, we feel should be lifted out of the bill. Thank you.

Uh, placing that under referendum, uh, does not allow enough time to comply with all the truth and taxation, filing deadlines, uh, notice deadlines to the county for their, uh, publication of tax notice. Because once the referendum, uh, has enough signatures, it puts a stay on the increase. Correct. So, so we're like dead in the water until the election, and, uh, we can hold that as quick as we can. It's miserable, isn't it? It it, pardon? It's miserable, isn't it? It's miserable for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Thank you. Mr. Hobert wouldn't, is there some time a calendar that says that, uh, school district cannot raise, you know, pass a local tax before some date?

So the, uh, in-law, the school district has to, uh, certify or adopt its tax rates by, or before June 22nd, then we have to wait for the county process to assemble the tax notice, which they have to publish about the third week of July, around July 23rd. Uh, then we cannot hold a truth and taxation hearing until 10 days after that date, Until 10 days after the county does its work.

Yes. Is it possible for both the school district and the county to move those dates up?

They are statutory dates. We, we have no discretion over those timings.

Okay. Thank you. We do have discretion on over those timings in this bill. In other words, uh, I'll just say you're fine. Representative Shipp is certainly capable enough to meet with legislative staff and with you to try and look at those dates to provide enough time to make sure that that can be appropriately met. That's just an idea.

Yeah, no, that, that would be great. And there's a couple of, uh, other tax bills with regards to the truth and taxation that are looking at trying to move dates in that full timeline as well.

Okay. But that would be helpful at this end. So maybe a coordinating clause between those and others. I know Representative Peterson is working on that. I know Senator Wilson is also, and so maybe there's a way we can triangulate and, and get better dates. You know, there's plenty of time. March 6th is still a year away. Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. So we're talking about the notices and all those type of things for public hearing and adopting. Is your timeframe for that noticing different than say, the, the cities or the special districts? Or are you under the same notice and and provisions as every other taxing entity?

I believe we have the same timelines. Okay.

So if a city can do this, why can't a school district?

Good question. When I was going through the calendaring, say, if you were to, uh, hold your truth and taxation hearing at the, the latter end of August, you then have the five day filing period, the 30 day, uh, signature gathering period. And then if you use the mail-in ballot option, you have between 30 and 60 days after that to hold the election. You're in November. And there's no time to coordinate with the county to, if, if the measure fails, there's no time to get your tax information onto the tax notice because the county's already published and, uh, delivering those tax notices.

Okay. Well, that you'd be in the same situation as what other city if they had a referend to go through and do that. So, okay. Thank you.

Ga Ika with Utah Eagle Forum. And I want to speak in favor of this bill. I, uh, one of the things about the bill that I do like is the fact that the super majority part, but I also believe, uh, because with school boards, they just, you know, they just have each other. They, they discuss something and then they vote on it. And, uh, when it comes to taxes, especially the people need, need a say, uh, if, because our property taxes get higher and higher, and there are other things like that. So this, this is a way to have some more balance with what happens with the school board. So please vote yes on this bill.

Senator Harper, Thank you. And move that we, uh, favorably, uh, recommend second substitute house bill one 70.

Yeah, I appreciate that motion, Mr. Chair. Uh, certainly we all represent a certain number of, uh, citizens in our different districts. Uh, and I think it's important that we represent them. And, uh, once in a while we've been subject to referendums and, uh, and which is important. We, we represent the people, if the people rise up. And, and, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a pretty hard, uh, lift to get the signatures to go through the process. And certainly doesn't mean everything's gonna be referred, but it, it, it, it gives the people some say, uh, on, on certain critical issues. So, I, I appreciate, uh, your support of the bill. Thank you. And for your reference, I looked at the case, uh, if you look at paragraph eight in your, in your spare time, it says, article six, section one of the Utah Constitution provides the legislative power of the state shall be vested in State House of rep, state Senate, and House of Representatives shall be designated the legislature of the state of Utah and, uh, the people of the state of Utah provide. In subsection two, that sweeping language is followed by a more precise articulation of the right to refer legislation to voters. And subsection two provides in relevant part, the legal voters of any city or town to be submitted to the voters thereof, as provided by statute before the law or ordinance may take effect. Paragraph nine, these provisions notably omit school districts from the list of law abiding bodies whose legislative acts are subject to referendum. I provide that to you and put it on the public record, just so that everyone may know that the court might be tipping its hand as how it feels about referendums for schools as it's related to the, as it's related to the bill. So just put that out there. As you know, I'm in favor of the bill. I think, uh, it's, it's a, a, a good move, uh, for budgetary, uh, you know, resilience and for communication purposes, uh, and accountability. I just, you know, the constitutionality may be something that they have to deal with. So, uh, with that, uh, I'll place the motion motion before us to, uh, to pass second substitute house Bill one 70.

I was gonna say, uh, there I'm pretty, you know, it wasn't unanimous, so we don't get consent on that one, but, alright.

Thank you. Do I need to push something? Can you hear me okay? Yep. Okay. Yeah. Thank you Mr. Chair. Uh, in discussing the concerns that we had last time with, uh, alleged research and general counsel, uh, they indicated that, by the way, I have a substitute to move, but it does not affect what the questions were last time because, uh, I found out that the accelerated option for referendums are, were already in the bill. So, uh, certainly as you know, uh, a referendum, if it's run, you get the signatures and you have a certain amount of time to get the signatures. And then it would go on the ballot for the next, uh, election, whether it's a municipal election or a general election. However, section two 20 a 7 6 13, let's see, is that the right one? Hang on a sec. 20 A 7, 6 0 9 dash uh, period five allows an election officer to conduct the election on a local tax law entirely by mail. So without waiting for the nove nor normal November date for an election. So specifically, once a local tax law referendum qualifies for the ballot through signature gathering, the ballots are mailed to voters within 30 days. And the election on the referendum is conducted on the first business day. That is at least 30 days after the ballots were mailed. In addition, this section of code, basically, uh, code provides at the default timing rules described above do not apply. So basically voters get to decide the local tax law referendum within 30 to 60 days after the random qualifies for the ballot. So, uh, we don't have to wait a year or year and a half. You can have the decision once they've got the signatures within 30 to 60 days. Uh, but it is gonna be conducted entirely by mail to the school district. Now, there was something that we discovered in the bill that did need to change, that's referred in the, uh, in the substitute. Uh, it's that it had to, to differentiate between a local tax law and the local school tax law. And we, we fixed that. That's, uh, in 20 C, subsection 26 A, um, let me find it here. This is a big bill, you guys, so it's just differentiating between a local tax law and a school tax law. I can't find the exact space, place where that substitute language is. Here's the link. Somebody beats me to it. You're welcome to let us know. Snow Try line 1 7 6 6 1 7 6 6. Yes. I should have had that marked down. Yeah, that's it right there. So it differentiates between a local tax law and a school. Local school tax law needed to be fixed in the bill to make it correct, but there are referendum, the timing, uh, the expedited referendum is, is available in the bill if needed. So I'm open to more questions or concerns or Conclude your testimony. Okay. Thank you. That's it. Alright.

You're welcome. Okay. Alright. Uh, we'll bring it to committee for any questions or discussion.

Okay. My name is Todd Haber. I'm the business administrator for Granite School District and the legislative liaison for, uh, U Asbo. Appreciate the, the extra time to review the bill and to look into the concerns about timing of this referendum process with the truth and taxation process. I appreciate the highlighting of the section that shows the accelerated process for a referendum. Uh, my comments, however, are still the same from last time. 'cause I was aware of that provision within, uh, the referendum process to illustrate the timing in a sense, uh, under truth and taxation, a an action of the board or a decision of in, uh, increasing taxes is, has to be conducted by September 1st. So if we use that as the get go date, and we could then go to the referendum process, even under accelerated, you have the five days to petition, and then you have the time period to collect signatures. You then have the 30 days after certifying the signatures, uh, to be able to hold the special election. We're already 65 to almost 70 days, uh, after September 1st. That gets us first, second week in November. As you know, our tax bills are due November 30th. There's almost no response time to be able to notify the public of what the actual tax burden will be, uh, on those tax notices, and then allow them the ability to pay the tax within the fiscal year. So the, so the challenge, uh, remains even with the accelerator process. Thank you.

Yeah. Uh, I move that we adopt, uh, HB one 71st substitute.

Yeah, I'll waive. Okay. All in favor.

I move that we, um, pass out with a favorable recommendation. HB one 71st substitute.

Yeah, I would. Um, we've been looking at this for a few years now. Um, and I know that it may cause a little consternation from, from our school districts. Um, I know that there's times when they have to increase taxes in order to meet some statutory issues. Um, and I'd hope that we can address those issues as well if we haven't already. I don't think we have though. And, uh, I, I just think it's, I mean, if you've ever been to these meetings, there's a lot of, especially people on fixed incomes that are really struggling to pay their property taxes. And if they've got the gumption to go out and, and do a referendum, it gives 'em the lever to pull, to pull. But it also, it, it, it, I understand it puts a little pressure back on our school, our school, uh, our school districts. But I think it's the right policy going forward to help. We can correct the other statutory side of it. So I think it's a good, good piece of legislation.

Yeah. Thank you Mr. Chair. I just want to indicate that we represent the people. Uh, one way to avoid a referendum is, uh, to get a super majority in our school boards. So if, if there's some consternation, maybe with a particular school district, maybe they need to work a little harder to make sure that they get their super majority. You know, uh, the school district that I reside in has seven members, so if they get five or more to vote for it, then they don't have to worry about a referendum. But if you have a split vote, that's telling me that some people are not too happy with it. And, and if there's people, that doesn't mean there's going to be a referendum. Just means that they have the opportunity to do one if they want to. So, I, you know, most, all the other legislative bodies in our state are subject to referendum and so I think this is a good piece of legislation. Thank you.

Meeting clerk for items on the house. Third reading calendar. First substitute House bill one 70 School Board Referendum amendments by Representative Shipp. This bill was heard in revenue and taxation with the vote of 10 0 1 Representative Shipp.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro Tem, uh, I move to adopt second sub HB one 70.

Yes. Uh, what that does, it just sets up a coordination clause. Uh, we passed, uh, HB 32, couple of days ago. Uh, if both passed, we need a coordination clause as it has to do with signature gathering. Uh, and then it just makes some other clarifications on defining a local school tax law versus a local tax law.

I'll waive, I'll place the motion to adopt second substitute house Bill one

Yeah. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Pro tem, uh, colleagues. This bill School board referendum amendments. We have passed it in this body the last two years. It's passed the house. Okay. And as we all know, sometimes we have a little issue getting our house bills passed through the, through the, through the total body. So basically all legislative bodies in our state are subject to referendums, except right now school boards are not subject to referendums. Uh, I have had, uh, citizens all over this state, uh, because of some of the truth and taxation stuff this past year that asked me if I was gonna run this bill again. And I said, yes, I am, because I think it's good policy. This only applies, uh, if you do not have a super majority. It just like us, uh, if we get a super majority, we don't have to worry about referendums or vetoes. Uh, so this sets up, uh, that if a school board, uh, on whatever type of, it's gotta be a legislative issue. This can't be, uh, human resources. Mr. Speaker Pro Tam. It's only, uh, on legislative type thing. So if the school board wants to hire a superintendent, and maybe some of the people in the community don't like who they hired, they cannot run a referendum on a personnel issue, hiring or firing of employees and that sort of thing. Mr. Speaker Pro tem, this, uh, only applies if, uh, if you have a split vote in your, in your, in your school board. For example, the school board in my area, there's, there's seven school board members. Uh, if they have a three four split, and if it rises to the point that the citizens, some of the people, uh, don't wanna overturn that, they have to then apply to gather signatures to get it on the ballot. Uh, the bill already in the bill, it allows for an expedited referendum process as well. Uh, that's not being changed, but that's already in the bill for expedited uh, issues. Um, so with that, Mr. Speaker Pro tem, I'm open to any questions?

Thank you Mr. Speaker ProAm. Uh, may I ask a question? Sponsor, yield Representative Shipp, will you yield to a question? Yes, Go ahead. Was there a particular issue that, um, influenced you on running this bill in regards to school boards?

Uh, Mr. Speaker ProAm? Uh, yes. Uh, there were, uh, some issues I'm aware of in some districts that had to do with tax increases this past year. Uh, that the people certainly with truth and Taxation, they can come in and voice their opinions on those when, when, when it comes right down to it, no matter what the vote is on the school board. Uh, as long as they have a majority, uh, they can't make any difference, so it can't be referred.

Mr. Seber, may I have another question? Go ahead. This has nothing to do with mascots and, um, native American rep, native Americans as mascots.

It could do, if that's a legislative decision, Mr. Speaker Pro tem that the, that the school board wants to make, if they have a split vote on something like that, uh, that could be go to a referendum as well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm. Will the sponsor yield to a series of questions? Representative Shipp, will you yield to a series of questions? Yes, Mr. Speaker, Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro tem. Um, does this bill slow down the process?

Mr. Speaker Pro tem? I don't know if it slows down the referendum process. There is a process for referendums. It does offer, uh, Mr. Speaker pro tem an expedited, uh, process, uh, for that.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, pro tem. Um, is that necessary here or is it detrimental to fulfilling? Um, the duties that our board members were voted in for?

Uh, Mr. Speaker ProAm? Uh, that's an opinion. Uh, my opinion is, uh, we represent the people. If you have three out of your four board members that aren't happy with something, uh, it gives, it gives the people we represent the people, gives them an opportunity to weigh in, uh, if, if they feel so justified and they want to gather the signatures to see if they can get it on the ballot.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro Tem. I, I, I think the idea is really good. I also would like to see, um, you know, like a one size does not fit all, not, not all situations can be, can be dealt with and, um, the idea of all laws can make things go a little nutty in our areas. So I would just advise some caution on the bill as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, will the sponsor yield to a series of questions? Representative Shipp, will you yield to a series of questions? Yes, Mr. Speaker ProAm, Uh, I, I appreciate this bill, but I have a question regarding the, the required threshold on the vote that, that just caught my ear and I didn't know that that was there. And I have a question in regards to if, if let's say you have a seven member, uh, school board in six of the seven vote for it, would that be able to be referendum?

Uh, Mr. Speaker Pro Tim? No, that would be a super majority on a seven member board. If you have five or more, that would be a super majority.

Uh, thank you for that answer, Mr. Speaker Pro Tam. I, I guess I, I have a concern with this is, uh, in my county, we recently had that exact scenario, uh, pass our school board after the Go Bond was soundly defeated and a property tax increase was implemented in place of a, a go bond that failed with 67% of the vote voting against. Uh, I, I guess I, I, I support in concept, uh, very much what you're doing, but I worry that by us putting a requirement of, of the vote of the school board not representing the people, it could potentially still create problems that, uh, that the, that the people, um, didn't want. So I, I rise in support of the bill, but have concerns with that specific item. Thank you. Thank

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, uh, colleagues, I just wanted to rise in support as well of the, the bill. I appreciate the good work of the representative here. This is a policy, this body's passed twice, uh, out and one of the biggest things we hear from our constituents is about property taxes. And in my area specifically, 51% of the property taxes, uh, that my constituents pay come from their school district. Um, but it is the only legislative body in the state that citizens do not have the ability to referendum. And so I think it's important to have that check and balance in place at all levels of government and appreciate the sponsor working on this.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, will this sponsor yield to a question Sponsor yield? Yes, go ahead. Thank you. Um, I am curious to know, I, maybe I missed it in the discussion, but in, I don't remember the line numbers, but up very far up in the bill, it talks about the building code and the fire code, and I wonder if you could explain what that relationship is to what the other things you're doing in the bill. Uh, Mr. Speaker pro tem, uh, this isn't focusing on any fire codes. Uh, it's only focusing on referendum. May I quote the line numbers? Go ahead. Okay. 6 93 to 6 97. It's the building code adoption cycle. Would the sponsor yield to a question to clarify that?

Yes. Mr. Speaker ProAm, let me look at this real quick. Uh, okay. Uh, Mr. Speaker ProAm, if, uh, up in lines 6 75 to 6 79, that same, uh, verbiage is in the code. It's just shifting that from number seven to number nine.

Yeah. Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro tem. To answer one of the issues that came up that I want to clarify. If there has been a bond election, this does not supersede a bond election. If the people vote on a bond that is not, uh, an opportunity for the school board to then try and pass something. This just has to do with, uh, uh, school tax, uh, decisions where the people haven't already weighed in through an election for bonds. So if a bond is voted on and, and, uh, is turned down, uh, that can't be brought back because it's already been voted on, uh, colleagues, I just encourage your support. This puts the school board legislative bodies on par with every other, other legislative body in the state. And so I'd encourage your vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro. Tim.

You, Mr. President. There's an obscure portion of the state constitution that gives the citizens the right to alter and reform their government. Uh, one power that the citizens have because they share legislative power. With we here in the state legislature, they have the power to refer laws that legislative bodies in the state pass, uh, to be, uh, to see if they want to be approved by the voters. There are exceptions to that, that a two thirds majority is exempt from that referral. Uh, but generally the Constitution requires that the people have this power for both legislation that we pass here. And legislation that's passed by City, county, or Town House Bill one 70 would extend that power to school districts. You know, people elect school boards, but sometimes school boards are not as in touch with their constituents. And so this gives the citizens that elect the board the chance to hold the board accountable for its decisions through the power of referendum, similar to the way that they can before legislative actions here or at municipalities around the state.

Thank you, Mr. President. Uh, I rise in in great support of this bill. Um, if you've ever been in an area where, um, you have a 30, you have a, you have a, a geo bond that goes down two to one, and the school board comes back and begins the process of saying now that they're going to raise your taxes 36% and you can't do anything about it. Referendums need to work and they need to work for cities and counties. They need to work for school boards. I'm not a big fan of, uh, the initiative process, but referendums to me are the ultimate check. And in, in my case, personally, I would be not respecting my constituents who have really missed this tool as a way to, to keep a school board from raising their taxes, uh, in, in a not so great way. And I just think that this will be really helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, Mr. President, I'm gonna give opposing view. I I am gonna raise an opposition to this bill and, and I've been really consistent in that I, I think referendum should be hard, if not impossible. I think this bill, I think this bill is a step in the wrong direction. Um, I, I ran a bill making referendum harder, harder when we make decisions with cities, cities dealing with zoning and planning. And I, and I made the referendum harder and I'm glad I we did that. This is making referendum easier. I think we have elections. I think if, if school boards overstep, I think we, we can vote 'em out. Just like we can vote city council out. But having, having a, a weakened referendum process, by weakened I mean easier referendum process. We have individuals, we have school board members. It just, same policy with city councils. They make really hard decisions and, and I, I, I don't like, I don't like the idea of of weakening it. I think referendum should be very, very difficult. I think this process is too, too easy and for those reasons, I stand in opposition to this bill.

Going to use summation and a motion. Thank you, Mr. President. This doesn't make referenda easier. It just extends them to another branch of government that holds legislative power consistent with our constitution. Uh, this, uh, the same two thirds majority, uh, standard applies, which means this could only be used for a legislative action that on a five person school board passed three to two or on a seven person to school board, excuse me, a seven person school board passed four to three. Uh, any, any other outcome would be unre referable because it would pass by such a large majority. Uh, I think, you know, we've seen school boards active in, in participating against referenda, um, against, uh, bills that this legislature has passed. Uh, so I, I think that even school board members recognize the value that, uh, that comes from the people having the say to be able to, uh, have their voice override a legislative body when that legislative body errors. Uh, and with that, I will just remind the body that my children are here on the floor and move that second substitute house. Bill. One 70 Pass. Whoa,

Now you sure you wanna encircle? Wow. Um, motion to Uncer Second sub. Second subject to HB one 11. Motion to encircle. Second substitute house Bill one 11. Wildlife amendments.

Mr. President. I had, uh, presented this bill in full earlier, but with the fiscal note. Hadn't caught up with it and our, my good colleague had caught that and we circled it, but I'll,