H.B. 188 Juvenile Justice Amendments: transcript

Okay. Well, I appreciate you having me back to this committee and, um, I'm just pulling all my papers together here. Last time when I was here, we were talking about HB 180 8 Juvenile Justice Amendments, and there was a, a request to come back and to bring some people with me that could testify and to bring some of the data that I had been looking at. And I am happy to do that for us today. In fact, um, we've had some additional meetings on the bill just since, uh, we met last time. And I feel like this bill is at a really good place. Um, so just a little bit of a backstory about me. For years I did therapeutic treatment care for troubled children, many of them with substance abuse issues and other issues that they were working with. And I saw what inspired them to have a change of behavior and to have a change of heart. And it was usually because at first, so you can change from the inside out or you can change from the outside in. And a lot of those kind of tougher kids that came to my house, they needed a little bit of an encouragement from the outside to change. And so sometimes the thing that led them to their change was, oh, I'm gonna have to go in front of a judge, or, oh, I better not cross that line. I don't have any more chances. And so, um, this is why in looking at the situation that was brought to me by teachers, parents, students, all related to Yes. Real

Anyway, so, um, people came and they spoke with me and asked me if I would help with the drug situation in the schools. And I met with the schools, I met with the district, I met with people from other districts besides my own. And what I recognized is that everyone is concerned. Everyone is working really hard. They are trying their best, they're working with the instruction that they've been given, and they are feeling like it's not being taken seriously enough that the youth aren't taking things seriously enough when it comes to the drugs. And we're seeing a lot of the same youth again and again that are repeat offending with the same offenses. And I'm gonna have, um, multiple people talk to you a little bit more firsthand, better than I can do about that. But I would like to just share a couple of little offhand comments that have happened through my conversations over the past year as I've been working on this issue. So there was a principal, a high school principal, who said to me, um, Nicoline, it's the same 40 kids we know. They just keep doing it and doing it and doing it and nothing is encouraging them to care. It's the same ones. And then another, uh, authority over a district said, the only I I said to him, how, how are things working at your alternative high school? Does that inspire people to stop doing the drugs at your school? He paused and he said, well, the only thing that actually makes them stop dealing the drugs is if they go to dt. So then we are back to the consequence situation again. The chief of police that I talked to about this issue said to me, Nicoline, my son does not go to the bathroom at the school the whole day because he knows what's going on in those bathrooms. We all know what's going on in those bathrooms. It's bad the kids don't go there. And this story of not going to the bathroom all day long at school, it cuts me deep. I can't imagine being in an environment where I felt like I couldn't go to the bathroom without breathing something that was harmful for me, or being around people that were doing things that might be dangerous. What a horrible situation. And as I talked to nieces and nephews and people around the state, youth from a lot of different districts, the story is the same. So people can say, well, Lene, it's just your district. Just, they don't know. But that's not true. It's happening everywhere. And I think there has been a lot of work in this space and there's been maybe some confusion about what needs to be happening at the schools. So what this bill is doing is aiming to create clarity on how searches can happen, who can do searches, as well as what we are going to do when we find certain drugs at the school. And then's also going to address tracking juvenile recidivism, school-based juvenile recidivism, as well as getting into the space of trying to see how many of these offenses are repeat offenses and stuff at the schools. So, um, I've got some data that we can talk about and, and then I would like to, um, go, uh, turn some time over to some guests that I have. So you were handed a packet of things there. Um, I'm not gonna go through absolutely everything in the packet, but if you turn over to the back of the first page, um, there are some statistics there. So, um, it says that there are court referrals. Juvenile court referrals have declined 35% since 2017, which means that the, the offenses are happening, but they're not necessarily getting referred to the court. And only 29 um, percent result in a formal petition, which may mean that they don't need to have that formal petition. That's okay. But if we look at this school based drug behavior and incidences at the school, I do have one page there where you can see a graph. This is taken from, um, this report, which is the 2025 school disciplinary and Law Enforcement Action report that's given by USBE. And um, you can see the years from 2020 to 2025, you can see the blue line indicates the total incident count that's happening. You can see those total incident counts are in general going up. Um, and then you can see the maroon line, the distinct incident count. So a distinct incident count means each person committing an account. So we have 88,434 distinct incidences that are happening at school, but 115,981 incidences, which means that there is that gap between 88,000 and 115,000 are repeat offenders, people that are doing more than one incident at the school. That was something that got me very interested as I was looking through this data. Now on the back page, you can see here some statements that are made from students and one from a police officer, um, two from Layton area, two from Illa, and I'll let you read them in entirety yourselves. Um, but just I'll touch on a couple of key points. The first one by Miriam Pectal, a senior, the homecoming queen at Twila High School. Some girls vape and do weed weed in the girls' bathroom. From what I noticed, it looks like the same group of kids are doing it. It infects the school environment because lots of kids seem depressed at school. I'm pretty sure that student government's planning on doing a vape prevention week, the student student government's trying to handle the problem. Davis Ayala, a senior at Layton High says, I've noticed people using drugs countless times. It's very common occurrence to walk into a bathroom and see a few kids vaping. There are a couple of bathrooms in the school that are known to avoid because of f frequent vaping in them. I've also seen frequent Zen, and I think that's supposed to be ZYN usage from lots of people I know, um, how addicted they are to them. A ninth grader Afton, um, from Shoreline Junior High says, I've witnessed people use drugs specifically in the bathrooms. There is a bathroom at my school the most students avoid because it's known to have drug deals being a space for vaping. So then the bottom, uh, statement by Officer Faith York, this was a statement that she shared with me that we presented during interim when this was discussed. So it's not super current, but there are some key things in this. Um, so she is a peace officer. She also is a school resource officer at Daggett Peak High School, and she says that I have seen juveniles start off with what is described as simple tobacco violations. Sometime later they're charged with something more serious like a drug charge. More and more, eventually these same juveniles are charged with life altering charges such as burglary, and now have a felony on their record. It is discouraging to hear a juvenile come to me and say Representative. Yeah. Um, if you could Go faster, Maybe don't read faster. Okay. Uh, we've got the before us. You Got it there. I, I'll just sum up what she says. Our meeting was supposed to end at six o'clock. Oh true. That last one was Very long. Thank you. We're happy to stay for a little bit, but, uh, I will hurry my best. Last time you guys said give me more, so I'm giving you more. So now I will dial back the more. Does that sound good? So anyway, just to sum this up, basically she talks about the recidivism problems that she's noticing. She also mentions that even her own child who had a drug, um, offense multiple times was brought, um, before authorities in the court system and basically given a slap on the wrist. And she was discouraged about that as a parent because she's worried about his future. And so she was saying, we've gotta do more. And she knows from that firsthand experience. So, um, I do believe that there's a little bit more information that could come from some of my special guests, and so I'm not gonna say anymore. Um, we'll be very quick. Um, they've come all the way from Twila to talk with you today and, um, then we'll open it up to questions. So I brought with me, um, David Ney and he handles all of the drug evaluations and stuff. I don't even know how to describe you. He does the suspensions and he also, um, monitors a lot of the drug activities and stuff at the school and,

Okay. Uh, appreciate having me come up here and speak on an issue that I have spent probably the last 18 months excessively documenting and dealing with on a daily basis at Twila High School. I do wanna point in, this is not just at TWI High School, it's prevalent everywhere else. We just have a high rate because we're doing more to stop it, prevent it, and figuring out how kids are getting around the system. What we have in our bathrooms is Halo Smart Sensors, which detect vape and THC uses. It can also detect masking when you spray an excessive amount of deodorant to try and mask the smell of the vape. In the THC, we use our surveillance cameras to see who goes in and outta the bathroom during the Halo activation when anyone in, when they left, which indicates how long they were in there for. We do regular bathroom checks between each halo activation. I check the bathroom to document any nicotine THC smells or excessive use of deodorant, which is used to mask the nicotine TH smell. We also use Smart Pass at our school. So when a student leaves the classroom, they use smart paths and notifies us who's out the class, where they're going. More importantly, who else is going there with them from the, over the past few months of documentation, what I figured out is from experience and student testimonies that students are dealing vapes in parking lot restrooms and other locations during the school hours. There is regular bathroom meetups before school, during class, and during the class period switches where we literally see these same kids just Congress to the same bathroom. And the same thing happens over and over again. When the halo gets activated, the vape sensor triggers the kids leave the bathroom, they leave the vape smell, and they leave the THC smell behind. What we've also figured out is instead of buying physical vape, they're now paying per puff. They pay by ven more cash to the students in the school who are distributing it. What we've also found out is that they're sticking the vapes with duct tape to the side of the toilets to leave it for the next person to come in and collect. And I actually have the photographs of the duct tapes still on the toilet in one of our bathrooms. They place it under sinks. And the more worrying thing from what we've heard is they place it under classroom desks for the next person to come in and collect if they know that that person is the next person in line. As we're talking about the percentages, I just wanna get straight to the numbers and figures that we have for this school year at, at the moment at Twila High School for nicotine vape referral for nicotine vape referrals. We currently have 85 offenses with 93 students named, but only 27 have two or more of more offenses within that. That is 4.95% of our school population and 1.44% of those who have repeat offenders. For THC vapes and illegal substance referrals, there's a total of 18 offenses. 28 students, nine of those students have two or more of those offenses. That's 1.5% of our school population and 0.48% of those who have repeat offenders. And we're talking about the punishment that follows. It is not enough to deter it. They shouldn't are in the mindset of it's worth, the risk is the risk is worth the reward. To me, they also in that mindset of if they don't find anything, they can't do anything. So what we have students do is they will hide, vapes down their pants and they're shorts up their top. They'll hide in areas where they cannot be searched. A couple examples of I have of some students, I have student A for example, issued his five nicotine offenses and three THC offenses along with one vandalism. Student B has seven nicotine offenses and one THC student C has five nicotine offenses and three THC and another one has seven THC or sorry, seven nicotine and three THC. I'm not gonna go into detail on the amount of suspensions per student, but for total, within those four examples that I've gave you, I have a total of 13 days outta school suspension. It's not enough to deter, it encourages the students to continue to do it because they know that the school rules and regulations are very, very low. They're very minimal. They do nothing to discourage the behavior, which is ongoing within the high school. The current rubrics that we have, it is just not enough to deter it. We have a first offense. It just says possible suspension for a rape use offense. The second offense, it just says suspension doesn't give an exact number. They do a vape course. Parent contact, third defense, again, suspension, no specific number. Drug, an alcohol program, clean periodic drug test. The fourth offense onwards is exact same as a third. It doesn't change, it doesn't get worse. For THC, first offense is three to 10. Day, day suspension, prime for life course, pay in contact, second defense, 10 day suspension. Next course to do pay in contact. Third defense, 10 day suspension, drug and alcohol program, periodic drug testing. Fourth offense onwards is the exact same as a third defense. It does not change. Could We, could we wrap your comments up quickly? Yeah. So going by the numbers and going by the shooting population that we have in our school, it is the same select view. They continue to do it because their risk is worth the reward to them. If the school district does not change their policies on this, it's only going to get worse. And at the end of the day, all we're doing is protecting the 5% of the school. We continually break the rules and we are punishing the 95% of our school population who are too scared to use the bathrooms. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Carlos Jimenez. I, um, representing myself. But, um, what I've noticed is, um, well on the way out to, to come to here today. Um, I read the sign on my school that said, this is a drug-free zone. And, um, for me, uh, when we catch people using vape, uh, they know that they're just getting a suspension and then coming right back. Uh, usually it's one or two days, and then they come right back. Um, recently at one of the schools in my school district, a young man that had been warned and caught seven times, um, eventually Uintah the courts, um, outside of school. Um, and they dropped all of the charges, sent him back to school, he Uintah the officer and said they dropped all my charges and laughed in the officer's face. There is no sting to the punishments that are currently happening, and the kids know it. They know that they have impunity with within 200 feet of the school. There will be no real consequences of drug or drug use or distribution. Um, we have a number of kids that bring, uh, vapes to school to distribute to their friends, whether it's for sale or for just use. Um, and these consequences are things that need to follow the student and can be expunged after, uh, a designated amount of time or service has been, um, uh, accomplished. The legal system in our area, um, is very light on the crime of drugs and alcohol with minors, and there's no parental minimal parental involvement or punishment in, in, uh, any of the cases. Lastly, before I, or I'll wrap up with, um, Uh, I, I've talked to every teacher that I've talked to in our school district, not a single one, and it's been hundreds, has said we're doing a good job at taking care of the vape problem. And that's not just at my school district, at multiple school districts. I go to a lot of conferences. There isn't a single school district that says, we're doing it. We've got this. Um, that's very important because there is a disconnect. When I go to the school board meetings, the school board has reported that their numbers have gone down according to the Sharp survey, and yet they can't explain why or if it really is. I, uh, a I look at the sharp survey with a, um, realistic viewpoint that kids lie on it, considering that many, many students have told me they just lie on the sharp survey. Um, so we can't just rely on surveys. We can't rely on the kids telling the truth. We've gotta actually hammer down the problem and and attach a real consequence to it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank You. And that's pretty much my presentation, unless people need more from me, in which case I'm open to any questions.

I just wanted to thank you for your, uh, your work and helping us to come to a, an agreement today. Um, it's, uh, very much appreciated and I think, uh, most of the committee we're ready to go.

Ahead. Yes. My name's Chad Saunders. I am resident of Toula County. Speaking for myself, I'm also a constituent of represent Representative Peck. I appreciate her bringing this bill forward. And I want to share anecdotally, I'm an old man. I lived through the parents' rights and students' rights movements of the late seventies and early eighties when we were given smoking areas in our schools when kids' rights and students' rights were put over those of the parents. It feels like we're going back into that stage again with this vaping issue and with the drug issue, I have the fortune of the good fortune of getting to go to a lot of schools with my day job. I do play by play, uh, for high school sports. And so I get to see some of what, um, Mr. Jimenez and, um, representative Ecker talking about. It's real, it's legitimate. I see it. Um, when things started to change for us in the late seventies, early eighties is when not only were we given rights, but we were given responsibilities. We need to put teeth back in the res responsibilities. And I think this bill does that. And I would encourage you to pass it out of committee and let's get it to the, uh, floor. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Rachel Christensen Thomas, and I'm here representing myself as a concerned parent and citizen. Um, I have personal experience with my own son being suspended from, uh, Northridge Junior or Northridge High School in Layton. He was suspended, no, sorry, Clearfield. He ended up at Northridge. Clearfield. He was suspended every single month. And finally on the ninth suspension, I said, you obviously cannot handle my son and just expel him and I'll put him somewhere else. And then they sent him to Northridge in, at, at Northridge. He got involved in a Facebook group chat at Christmas time. It was Christmas break. All these kids are bored. They were literally sending pictures of drugs and saying, Hey, meet me here. Hey, meet me here in real time. I contacted the police. I said, you need to get in on this chat. You need to find out what's going on with these kids. And then my best friend in high school's, daughter died. She was 16 years old. She woke up and found her dead of fentanyl. Do you want that to happen? These kids are getting a vacation. Suspension is nothing, especially if the parents are doing nothing. It's a vacation.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I'm Phyllis Kimmel and I'm representing myself. This bill is an effort to stop the wrongful use of drugs by students in the schools. Uh, in doing so, this is important in contributing to the learning environment in the schools. I ask you to please pass this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members. My name is Liz Lcch. I'm the Criminal Justice Policy Director at CCJJ. And we wanna express our, our gratitude to the sponsor and working on, uh, this language at CCJJ we took a position of supporting concept on the second sub, knowing that we were still working on some additional aspects. And I think those have been resolved with the third sub. And I wanna appreciate, um, the, the sponsor in, in continuing on working with that on, with us. We also want to thank her for the continuing work that she has expressed over the interim when it comes to the training aspects and ensuring that we're getting the data and that we're doing the training needed for, for all of our partners. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and committee.

I'm John Taylor, representing myself again. I'll be quick. Um, greatest priority for the president of the United States is the security and safety of his people. That's why we have all these ICE agents. The greatest priority of every single teacher is not education. It is the security and safety of those students, including the principals. I hope we, um, will support this bill. I think it doesn't go far enough. I think we, if you wanna fix homelessness, you eradicate drugs from the streets. If you wanna fix, um, some of these security and safety issues in the schools, you eradicate the drugs and we need to take this as far as we can. Thanks.

Thank you. Thank you. Chair. Susan Edwards with Canyon School District, and I actually had not planned to testify to this. Um, we followed it along. Uh, we've had some concerns on previous subs. The third subs seemed to address many of our concerns, but when I heard the sponsor's presentation, um, I, I felt that I had to get up and make a few, um, statements on, on peer courts. Um, because her experience and, and I'm sad that that is her experience, uh, but it is absolutely not what we are experiencing. There are only two school or district, LEA peer courts in the state. One is in Ogden district and one is in Canyons district. The rest of the youth courts are actually city youth courts. And I personally cannot testify to how those are operating, but I can testify to ours. We have, um, only take low level offenses, some of which are vapes. We only take low level offenses. It is 100% opted into by the parents and the student. At any point in time they can opt out and they can, um, and they can face charges. Uh, we've had great success with this great students and, and I just wanted to make sure that you all know there's some corrections to how this is working in school district statewide. Thank you.

Yeah. Um, Susan, if I could ask you a question. I obviously have heard about your peer court. Yes. Um, I'm not sure how exactly this bill would interfere with what you're doing, 'cause I know it's, it's from what everything I've heard is fantastic. Mm-hmm. Um, I was wondering if you could be sure and look closely at the bill and work with Representative Peck Absolutely. To make sure that it's not going to harm your program and those type of programs. Um, and I would encourage more of those peer court programs from everything I've heard. So thank

You. Just to comment and be happy to work with her.

Hi, my name's Kiara Poynter and I go to Tola High School. Um, drugs have overtaken our schools, mostly Bathrooms have become areas for exposure to these toxins. We should be able to go into our bathrooms instead of avoiding it because we're scared for our safety or don't wanna deal with the students using and pushing them on us. Consequences for these infractions have been small. Kids will get suspended for a day and the next time we have the class, they'll be back. So are they really learning anything? We need to have stronger consequences. School districts aren't tried to give consequences, just keep their good reputations. Real consequences would give our school districts and juvenile courts more power to discourage drugs being used and passed around in our school. I've had a lot of experiences where people have been vaping around me and I haven't felt safe around them ever since. So I vote that we passed this bill. Thank

Yeah, no, I think I did a little bit earlier. Uh, just kind of signal to everybody that we've been working on this. Um, I appreciate, like I said, the sponsor's, uh, willingness and to sit down and work through some of the issues. I think we're in a good place now, so I I appreciate that. I adores the adoption.

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate the vice chair and for all of his effort and, and helping get this to a really great place. Just one clarity and that is that the third sub does not have anything in it about youth courts. So that's not something that's addressed. Okay. Thank you. Correct.

Move that we pass out. Third substitute house Bill, what is this? One? 88. 180 8. With a favor recommendation.

Yeah. Um, no thanks. Thank you to those who, who came all the way out here. I know it's only, uh, 30 minutes back that way, but I, I'd appreciate you, you being here. Um, we, this is something that we're, we've struggled with in the school safety space. Um, to the one person who mentioned, uh, the top priority of all of our administrators is the safety and security of their students. I wish that were the case. I think that is for a lot of them. And, uh, we need that to be more of a priority in that space on a regular basis. Um, so thank you representative for, for your work and I did urge adoption of the bill.

Thank you. I would just say clear is kind, you know, and this bill aims to just make things more clear for teachers, students, parents, everyone. And by so doing, I think we'll have better outcomes with our youth. So I appreciate the, the vote. Thank you.

Thank you. Members of the committee. This bill, um, HB 180 180 8 Juvenile Justice Amendments was a bill that I started last year. So I had constituents that came to me even before I was elected, saying, please, if you get in, can you please help with the drug problem in the schools? It's out of control. The teachers came to me saying, we know that there are older brothers and sisters, sometimes even parents that are sending drugs to the children with their children to school to deal the drugs at the school because nothing is happening to them. And there was a lot of miscommunication about what the administrators could do and couldn't do. They were like, well, the SROs have to handle it. And the SROs were like, no, we have to have a search warrant. And there was, you know, all of this miscommunication and misunderstanding about who could do what. And some education since then has tried, you know, has gone forward to try to help them understand what to do. I've had a lot of meetings since last year. So, um, this bill actually Uintah another committee last year, and they decided to discuss it during interim. So in the meantime, I've talked with multiple, multiple different, um, LEAs. I've talked to USBE, I've gone through the USBE reports on incidences that they have to report. And sure enough, it does show that there is recidivism problems with children. So you'll see in this bill that it just, it talks about juvenile recidivism and creates, uh, a definition there anyway. And then, um, also have spent many times with many meetings talking to, uh, JJOC and I think JJYC, make sure I get all the things right and DPS and, um, I've talked to the courts and, you know, anyway, all the different people who are involved in this. And I think we've finally come to the place where this is really nice. Um, in, in interim, um, there was a good discussion that was had there, and, um, it was really favorably received there as well. So basically just bullet points of what this bill does. Um, it makes it so that administrators shall refer for drug offenses, so that there does need to be a, a record of things going forward so that things don't get swept under the rug. And some of our smaller schools, smaller town schools where everybody knows everybody in the community, sometimes some of those things just sort of get like, well, you know, I don't wanna make your parents mad at me, or whatever it is. And so it doesn't, it doesn't get taken care of. And we wanted to make sure that those offenses were taken seriously, much like when we were children, they were taken seriously. Um, and then parents need to be informed if their children have a drug issue at school that wasn't clarified in code, we made sure that it is here. Um, we also made sure that the procedure for administrators and SROs and searching was clearly, uh, defined of what needed to happen there. There's also a definition for juvenile recidivism. There's a definition for school-based recidivism. And then there is a call to action for CCJJ to collect data on the juvenile recidivism and the school-based recidivism so that we can actually see going forward, um, what is happening with when the children are caught with these drug offenses. Are they repeating a lot or are we able to, are, are we, are we pushing the right buttons to inspire them? Are we having the right consequences so that they'll say, okay, you know what, I gotta take this seriously, what's happening after the fact? And, and it measures at, at multiple different points from like six months to three years so that we can see if there's recidivism that's occurring, um, even into adulthood. And then, um, it talks about distribution. So if a person is distributing drugs, then they need to go in front of a judge as opposed to getting a non-judicial adjustment or something else like that and needs to be taken seriously. And then, um, if they have possession, they can have one non-judicial adjustment, um, and or so one diversion. And, and then after that, um, if it they were caught in possession again, then they wouldn't need to, um, go in front of a judge. And so that's basically, um, the gist of the bill there. And if there's any questions, I'd be happy to take them.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I'm assuming you're, you were speaking to the sub and I Apologize. I'm so said that, I'm sorry. I am. Okay. I should have said that. Thank you. No, that was my assumption. Um, so can you clarify a little bit on the change, what the changes from the law currently on non judicials to what it will be if this bill is passed?

Right. So currently there's two non judicials that they can have as for possession. And it would just move to one so that we just knock it down because there's a lot of just repeat offenders that keep happening. So we're hoping that if we can just say, all right, let's just take it seriously right at the beginning. And the biggest thing too is to refer it, right? Like, okay, we have to refer it every time. We have to take it seriously every time.

Can I ask a follow up question, Mr. Chair Maybe? Yeah, go ahead. Thank You. Do you have data? I mean, just curious what level of repeat offenders are there? What level of offenses? Even, even if just specific to, you Know, your school district, you reference this specifically is about drug offenses in school. Do you know how many offenses there are happening? How many are repeat offenders? You know, right. With me, I don't have all of my data stuff. I have a whole packet of stuff probably in a drawer in my office that I did not bring. Um, we could probably find some of those points for you if you want me to get those things. Um, but I do know that as far as IC data goes, okay. Um, into Willa schools, for instance, the amount of drug instances have gone way up. I know just even since session have started, there's been fentanyl pills found in the school bathrooms and all this kind of stuff, and it's just getting to be a lot more, I guess, egregious. Yeah, No, and I appreciate that. And I guess my, you know, I appreciate what you're trying to do with this bill and a lot of the changes made, and I'm okay with, um, I do have some heartache with the non-judicial changes without seeing actual data to say like, Hey, this is a problem. This is why we need to do this, because I, you know, I'd like to know what the level of repeat offenders is in recidivism on that.

You know, right. With me, I don't have all of my data stuff. I have a whole packet of stuff probably in a drawer in my office that I did not bring. Um, we could probably find some of those points for you if you want me to get those things. Um, but I do know that as far as IC data goes, okay. Um, into Willa schools, for instance, the amount of drug instances have gone way up. I know just even since session have started, there's been fentanyl pills found in the school bathrooms and all this kind of stuff, and it's just getting to be a lot more, I guess, egregious. Yeah,

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I may answer that. Um, go ahead. So now that you said that, I actually am remembering in, I think I had, I don't even know a, a ton. It could have been like six or eight meetings with, um, JJOC, uh, CI don't know, but you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, all the J'S and all the, anyway, um, but we had lots of meetings and over the interim, and I think now that I remember, um, and this is gonna be on the record, but this is what my memory recalls just right off the bat, was that actually, um, there's not a lot of data that is collected on recidivism. That's why we have to col, that's why we have to define it and why we have to say we wanna collect that data. And so even the recidivism with the non judicials, I don't think that that's really being collected very well, actually. So I think that's the answer we're looking for. Thank you. Yeah.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, is this bill going to start collecting some data then?

Yes, it will start collecting data on juvenile recidivism and school-based recidivism. So those are defined here in the bill, and it will basically just track, um, it, it will how much those, um, people are re-offending. And it's not gonna be like per the person, it's just, just numbers. Yeah, just numbers. Okay. Exactly.

I guess my questions was the same as representative starters, um, because you started out saying that drugs are out of control in our schools, and I just wanted, was wondering what the data was, because I thought, I read the last data, I read, the drug use was on the decline. Um, so is there a specific drug, specific drug that is on the rise and, and was wondering exactly where did you get your data? So I can, um, so I can read it because it's just kind of in conflict of what I've read, that it was kind of, in fact, in Utah and the school system was on a decline. Well, actually in the incident report that USBE puts out every year mm-hmm. It actually shows, and that's one of those top incidences that they have. And so, and I didn't track it year over year, but it did show in the report that there was recidivism. It didn't label it that way, but it showed that there were, um, students who were having the same infraction, like with drugs in that, um, incident report that they, that they put out annually. And so I do know that was reported and I looked at that. I do also know that other districts that I've talked to, other representatives, they're like, oh yeah, we have this problem too. And my constituents are talking about it too. And the teachers, the district, like people are aware of this, and we're trying to just help the students take it more seriously. I think there's been a message, um, since in recent years there's been a message that, well, you know, drugs don't really hurt yet. It's not that big of a deal that doesn't hurt, you know, maybe it's cherry flavored or whatever. And so it's kind of like, eh, and I think, um, I think that they're not taking it seriously. The students aren't. And, and so we'd like to have the conversation be a little bit more about, Hey, this is harmful and there's consequences to this and, and we need you to take it seriously. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank

Thank you. Mr. Chair, if I may ask just a couple questions. Go ahead. Uh, thanks for presenting the bill and also explaining what will be involved at the schools from the principal to many others. Can you speak to the engagement you've had with the education communities or districts or USBE and, um, what those conversations have looked like? What their recommendations

and maybe level of interest and support? Yeah, That's kind of a broad, a broad question. I'll try to distill it down so I don't take too much time there. Um, but I will say that they're working on it. I, I didn't see one district that wasn't, that didn't have their eye on this problem and saying, okay, how do we handle this? We're collecting so many vapes and so many, you know, drugs and stuff like that. And we're having to try to figure out is that a nicotine one or is that an actual drug one? Or, you know, and these types of things that they're doing. And they're working so hard. And I was so impressed with their efforts and they were open to trying to come up with, you know, what can we do and what should our role be with the SROs and those types of things. So asking those questions and trying to get to those solutions. There was one conversation that I had with, uh, one district on a, it was a group call and this particular district was talking about how they still had an alternative high school. And um, and I was hearing about the alternative high school because a lot of schools, I mean school districts around the states don't have alternative high schools anymore, but this particular district did. And, um, I said, so since you do have this alternative high school and you have this program that you're working on, 'cause he was talking about all the efforts that they were making. I said, do you, do they stop using the drugs as much? And this is what he said. He said, no, the only thing that makes them stop, like dealing the drugs and stuff is going to dt. And, and I thought that was really interesting. They're trying, they're trying, they're trying. But for a lot of these people dealing drugs in the school, what stops is that? There's that consequence of I had to go to DT and ah, I better not do that anymore.

Thank you. Hey, just to be clear, um, so currently they can have two offenses that become non-judicial Currently. Okay. If they're actually reported, like referred. Okay. So that's another question is are they reported and do we have that data that says, oh, we have this many non judicials, We probably have numbers on how many non judicials we have, but we would not have numbers on how many are not reported because they're not reported Obviously. Yeah. So that,

So that, I think we only have the, the, okay, the numbers on what would be reported. But the idea in this bill would be that, that everything would need to be referred to a law enforcement so that it would actually get to either go on a non-judicial or go in front of a judge and that there would need to be someone who makes that decision. Whether this is one of those situations that needs to, you know, okay, go further down the track. And this is for drug distribution, drug distribution or possession with the intent to distribute All three. Either di either Or possession Or possession. But there, but possession is one non-judicial. But if it's distribution, then no non-judicial, if they are dealing drugs at school, I mean we had, yeah, in, in Tu Willa, we had a junior high student take one hit off of something that somebody distributed to them, gave to them. They almost died at the school in junior high and it was their one first time little hit off something. I mean, it is life or death on this stuff. And, and I just think we gotta take it serious.

Yeah, I don't disagree. It'd be nice to have some of that data though on, I I think this is what we're trying to get in a way with this collecting some of this recidivism data, right? We're trying to get more

Data. Certainly there's some data right Now there. Oh yeah, there is some data. I don't have it memorized. I have to apologize for that.

Okay. Alright. Thanks Representative. I wanna make sure I understand it's my, under what you're saying, it's my understanding that drug distribution is not eligible for non-judicial, Correct? In this bill?

Yes. That They in the law already.

Okay. Well if that's the case, then I suppose that would be the same, but, um, I, it was my understanding that that change needed to be made. Okay. Okay.

Um, I think that's all the questions from the committee. I mean, The drafter, the drafters worked on that for a long time and did a lot of research on that and we had a lot of conversations, so I'm pretty sure we've got it to, um, we're stepping it up a little notch on, on the consequences there.

Yes. I'm Seth Stewart. I'm representing myself. Um, I I I'm urging opposition to this bill in part because the recidivism definition here, uh, includes aspects that are not connected to a conviction of guilt. Our own state constitution requires a trial by jury in order to convict anyone of any crime. Uh, there are no exceptions to that in the text of our constitution. And by normalizing that, by, by saying that you can, you can have a recidivism metric and so on, and you can have these evidences that can stack against you for the future. Uh, this creates a condition where we're no longer following due process. We're no longer actually relying on a jury verdict. And, and the effect of that is that the government no longer has to prove its case, the prosecution through a diversion or through a judgment without an actual finding of fact by a jury. There can be this accumulated record that, uh, violates the privacy of individuals and also causes further harms without an actual verdict of guilt. And so for those very plain and simple reasons, I urge you to oppose this bill. Thank you.

I move that we adopt first substitute to HB 180 8.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I may just ask another additional follow-up question of the bill sponsor. Um, not seeing education represented in the committee today and seeing the need of this and the impact that it would have on schools in really good ways and it involving teachers and staff members and administrators. I'm just having just a moment to pause. Just wondering about the educational communities support of this or input of this and if they understand the, the impact and what would be involved just in the local schools and the LEAs and the school districts. Could you speak to that a little bit? Just,

Yeah. So every person within education that I've spoken to was in support and everybody I spoke to at USBE was in support as well. And when I discussed the, all of the USBE reports of all the incident reports with the person that makes the incident reports, I don't know if he could technically, you know, take a position of support, but he was like, I understand why you would be looking for this. And nobody seemed to flag this as anything that would make their life hard. I think everyone that I spoke to on the school level was saying, yeah, no, this is good. We need this clarity and we need to know how to help this situation. And that they're all trying their best. I, like I said, I don't think anybody is trying to be negligent or doing anything wrong in the schools. In no way does this target schools in any way. This this is only meant to be so that they have clarity they can, that they can actually follow through on these incidences that are happening at their schools better and not, hopefully have more of them keep happening at the school

Now. Thank you. You know, if, if this bill proceeds forward, I'd invite just anyone in the education communities, USBE to the local LEAs to just provide their perspective as, as this bill potentially just moves forward.

Yeah, I haven't had a lot of people, it was teachers and administrators that actually brought it to me. So that was the first. And then, and then as I talked about it more and then it was, oh, parents and then a whole group of students actually came to the capitol last year of their own accord, about 20 of them. I thought I was getting a meeting with one person last year and there were 20 students sitting in the house lounge waiting to meet with me when I thought I was having a meeting with one person and they all came to say, please, Representative Peck do something about the drugs in our schools. That's why they came. So to me, I feel like there's a lot of support for this. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. I'd like to make a motion that we hold this bill That's an, uh, substitute. He didn't Make a motion. He didn't make a motion. Yeah, we're good. That's an order. Would you like to speak to it? Yeah, I would. Um, there's been a lot of questions and I guess I kind of assumed that there'd be maybe a couple people here to testify of this. Um, your data is in your drawer and, and I think, I think there's just enough pause here to say, Hey, let's, let's let you regroup and come back. I like it. In principle, there was a couple questions about what the current law is, uh, on the, the, um, distribution and, and get a couple of those comparisons and then we can, uh, I think it might make sense to come back in our next meeting. We can probably get you on the agenda, um, if that's what the chair would like to do. But let's get maybe a, a little bit more of those questions answered. There's enough questions I think that might be prudent to do and that would be my motion is to hold.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I was going to make that same motion. I, I like what you have here in framework, but, um, the, the shift on the non judicials for me without having the data to back it up, that's, that's a really big policy change I think in how we've approached juvenile justice and what we know works. And if we're gonna take away some of these options, I would love to see some numbers on it to see what, what the issue is, how prevalent it is, how they're currently being handled. And I, and I think that that's the right move for us too. Just get some of that and come back and have that for our consideration. Thank you.

Uh, yeah, I would like to comment on that. Um, because I just had a lightning bolt that came back to me. Um, when representative was just speaking about the data on the non judicials, I do believe the data you will see on the non judicials will say, because they gave this to me last year, um, that they will say that they are like 93% effective or 94% effective or something like that. Um, no successful, they won't say effective, they'll say successful. And, but then I asked them, what does successful mean? And they said that successful means that they did their non-judicial, which means if they earned a few hours of community service, they did the few hours of community service. If they, whatever the non-judicial, uh, thing was that they had to do, they did it and that's how it was successful. And I said, well, did they not go back, um, and do the drugs again? And they said, well, we don't have that data. That was the conversation that was had last year. So that's the data that I have in my drawer about non judicials. It's what I was given last year by, uh, JJOC. And that's, and that's what they're gonna say. They're gonna say that there are 90 something, three or 4% successful. There is nothing that is that successful as far as like when you say not repeating. And that's why we went down the recidivism track because we needed to define recidivism, collect information on recidivism so we could actually see if they are successful, which is, that's what we're looking for right now, is to try to create that data. And so I mean we've, I've been in conversations about this for, you know, like over a year now and, um, and all through the interim and DPS gave me their recommendations. They're all in the sub J-G-O-J-G-O-C-C gave me their dec their recommendations. They're all in the sub except for one, which would basically make it so that we wouldn't have any consequences changing for the people doing drugs at the school. So that's the only one that I didn't put. But otherwise, everything else we put all the courts recommendations in the sub, everything is there and I, I don't know what else, um, I would give you, I'm happy to have conversations with anybody about stuff, um, that, you know, maybe people didn't have a chance to look over the sub as much as they wanted to, but there isn't going to be information that's going to tell you because of non judicials people did not repeat offend. There's not gonna be that data. You will only see data that says that they finished their non-judicial. So, but I'm at the mercy of the committee, you know, um, I, I'd like to see it go forward because it's something we've worked on for so long and I think it's a, a really good move for us to start helping our youth by giving them a little bit more consistency in the communications at the school. So, um, but, but if you want more conversations, I can have those too.

Yeah, I, I, I don't doubt that we've had all those conversations. Um, I think maybe get some of them here, uh, when we get the bill back on the agenda and, uh, I think it's a big enough change and I just, I feel like there's enough questions on our side that, uh, we'd like to maybe take, just pause. And so I'd like to stick with the motion to hold.

Thank you. Wait, isn't EAC at six?

Alright. I'll try to be as quick as I can, but this one does have a little bit of explanation to it. So there is a, a flyer that's being handed around. I wanna mostly draw your attention to the second page. So if you turn, there's a page with graphs. This is from the 2025 report from USBE for their incident reports. And you can see on here, 2025 that the total incident report that were reported, not all are reported, but a lot of them are is 115,981. But then distinct incident count, which means, um, how many children are actually doing the incidences or, or what that one incident happens is basically distinct is 88,434 incidents. And of course, there's a lot of things that can be incidents, whether they're, you know, violent acts or, or drugs or whatever. But you can see that there is a gap where there are lots of, um, incidents that are happening by the same children. So at to high, one of the administrators there. So, you know, it's pretty much like the same 40 kids and we know it's the same 40 kids. So, um, before I even got into office, there were teachers and parents and students coming to me saying, you know, if you get in there, can you please help with the drug situation at the schools? And even our Chief of Police said that he is own child does not go to the bathroom all day because the bathrooms are so bad at the schools. In fact, most multiple, um, schools, uh, students from schools around the state have actually said things like this. This is from a student at, uh, Layton High School. Um, there are a couple of bathrooms in the school that are known to avoid because of frequent vape vaping in them. I've also seen Frequent Zen uses from a lot of people, and I know how addicted they are to them. A a ninth grader from Shoreline Junior High said, um, the bathroom at my school, um, is where most students avoid because they know all the drug deals that are going on in there. It's not a safe space. And then, um, one of the SROs at Desiree Peak High School talked about how, um, she has been working so much in her school, but it's the same thing that keeps happening again and again. And the kids just keep coming back. So what this bill aims to do really quickly is it aims to, um, monitor that juvenile recidivism that's happening within the schools. So we're calling it school-based recidivism so that we can monitor that. Um, it's also telling that parents need to be told if there's a drug offense at the schools. It mentions how administrators should do the searching and how they should have a searching plan. There was some confusion there, and so we're clearing that up for them. It also talks about how if somebody is dealing drugs at the school, then they do need to be referred to the courts if they're doing distribution. And then it mentions how at the school, if they are, if they've had two chances, if they've been doing possession of drugs, they've gone to cessation class or something like that, two times that on the third time that they must be referred to the court. Because sometimes at schools what's happening is they're just getting time after time, after time after time. And the, and this is a, a directive that lets them know you can refer to the court any sooner if you want. You can refer on the first time if you feel like you need to. But for sure, by the time they get to that third time of possession, we're probably having a chronic problem here and they need to know that it's more serious. And so that is basically what the bill does. But we've got, um, some people here who can give you just a little bit more of an understanding. They've traveled in from Twila to tell you what's going on. They handle these problems at the school. Um, so if we could hear very quickly from Dave Ney and Sam Bob, uh, Boian. I know. Did I say it right? Yes, ma'am. Come on, come on up here. And you can have my seat. Actually, I'll just stand to the side and I've told them to be as quick as possible. Thank you. 'cause I know we have lots to do today.

Okay. Thank you Mr. Chair. I'm just gonna echo on what Representative Peck said. That's current school year. School year at Twila High School. We have currently documented 147 incidents involving drug use. Out of those 147 incidents, 64 students are involved in that, who have repeat offenders with two or more offenders. Our student population is a rough estimate. 1,878, the repeat offenders makes up 3.4% of our school population would allow only 3.4% to continue their drug use within the school. There is no consequences for what happens. We have got some kids who are 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 plus offenses. They continue to do it because the consequences that follow are not worth, are not preventing 'em from doing it again. There's just nothing there to stop them from doing it. They continue to do it every class period. We see kids in and outta the bathrooms. We have a Halo vape sensor going off almost every single class period. Every class switch. It is extremely out of hand at this current moment in time. This bill is very essential to to pass. It's gonna be one of the first things that's gonna stop kids from continuing the issue that we currently have. The sooner this bill gets passed, the better it is for the rest of the students in our high school who are there to learn to get their education and should not be exposed to THC vape chemicals within the bathrooms or anywhere else's school property. Thank you. Thank you.

Next. Hi, sir. I'm Samantha Boban. And what I do at the school, this is my partner. So together, both of us, we do in school suspension slash the air room. He monitors the cameras. I walk the halls. Now, you know, I can't go into the mail bathroom, so we switch off and on, but it's mostly, I don't know, it's 2026. Well, you, you'd be surprised. Um, I stand in the bathrooms so these young ladies can go to the bathrooms. It does, it gets very overwhelming. One of the things about our school that is so unique, I'm retired military. I did 24 years in the Air Force. Thanks for your service. So when it comes to these kids, you have to have a persona that you will not back down because they will test you. They will look at you, they'll cuss you out. Okay, I'm not going anywhere. I'm right here. So we are constantly, we are, they thumb their nose up at us because they know, ah, I'm just gonna get suspended, I'll be back. We've had fights, we've had faculty get assaulted. I they're only out for 10 days, really? 10 days. Okay. So then we have to put on our overalls, get in there. It's boots on the ground. It's hard. These kids look at us like you're not gonna do anything. They're kind of, sort of right, because we don't have the backing we need. I love my school. I love the kids in my school. They're not, they're all smart. Some of 'em are a little too smart for their own good. But school is supposed to be a place where you get educated and not be scared to go to a bathroom, not be scared to walk down the hall or go around the corner because of certain things happening. Please pass this bill. Thank you. Thank You.

It does. I'm open to any questions.

Go ahead. Okay. Uh, Mr. Chairman, this is, uh, Phyllis Kimel of the Worldwide Organization for Women. Students should be obeying school rules and obeying the law. And this would really help in the educational environment in the schools. I ask you to pass this bill. Thank you,

Pam. Thank you Chair and committee members. My name is Van Wynn, the Juvenile Justice Policy Director for CCJJ. Um, I'm here to speak on behalf of the commission. We did take a position of support this past Monday and really appreciate the sponsor and working with us on all the changes in sub three. Thank you.

Thank you. Ben Horsley, granite School District. We support this bill. Please pass it. Thank you.

Uh, yes. H-O-R-S-L-E-Y.

Maryanne Christensen.

I live in Salt Lake County. I'm Maryanne Christensen, executive Director of Utah Legislative Watch. I am speaking in favor of the bill. I think this is an area where, um, as children come home with stories about what's going on in their schools, parents are getting more and more alarmed and it's really time for us to make our schools a thank you more safe place for their students to be. So thank you for voting for the bill.

It's, it's the rotund. It's rotunda Be remodeled or Bill. Okay.

but yeah, I'm Seth Stewart, representing myself from American Fork. Um, my concern with this bill is that, uh, it hazards some intrusions against due process, notably the right to a jury trial and the, the constitutional requirement there, um, drug addiction and dependency can develop rather rapidly. And I think the current policy as well as the amended policy of allowing multiple strikes before any kind of, uh, criminal court intervention is required. It, it, it enables them to develop a dependency and to have an entrenched drug addiction or substance use disorder before there is that weightier intervention. And so having a lenient policy upfront is actually damaging our youth because it sets the expectation that you can go ahead and experiment and try drugs potentially multiple times before there are consequences. And so my my question here is, do we know what Utah's Constitution says about jury trials in criminal cases? And is there any ex exception there Authorized for the youth? Thank you.

Okay. Um, I move that we favor to recommend HB 180 8 third substitute. Is that right?

No, just to say how much I think everybody else who's worked with me, I mean, this has been a year of work and tons of meetings, tireless meetings with Van and Pam and all the people and I just really appreciate Them. So I remember you called me months ago and I'm like, you gotta talk to the crew. And you did. So thank you for that. Yeah.

Oh. A picture of voting in the negative. I'm sorry. I apologize. Just I need to get my hearing in my hearing checked.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. This bill actually represents two years of work. Before I was even elected to office, people were saying, if you get in, could you please look at the drug situation in the schools we're struggling. So this came first from teachers. I talked to administrators, but then last year during the session, without me even knowing they were coming, 20 youth came up and asked for a meeting with me. And the subject of their meeting was, please representative, can you help us fix the drug problem in the school? We can't even go to the bathroom. On further inspection, I actually found out that even some of our high ranking police officials out in the county, their children do not use the bathroom at school all day long because of the drug situation. I asked around other places in the state I've worked with, uh, CCJJ and JJOC and DPS and USBE and all the stakeholders that would be concerned about what this drug situation is looking like in the schools. And we have worked hard through interim and through this session and have come up with a bill that you see before you now. So what this bill does is it makes it so that juvenile recidivism in the school and school-based recidivism information is collected so that we're able to see patterns that are happening in the schools. One thing that we heard from schools was that a lot of the times it's the same kids that are doing the same behaviors again and again, and those youth are not getting deterred by just going to a cessation class or something like that. Sometimes there's even dealing that's happening in the schools. So there's not just possession, but distributions of drugs and there's not significant action that's being taken. So what it does is it says that parents must be told if there is a drug offense that happens in schools, this is significant because they should be told. I'm not saying that any of the schools are not telling parents they might be what we thought that was good to put in here to make sure we brought parents into the conversation. Also, school administrators need to do drug searches and make drug searching plans. They do have the authority to do those searches. There was some confusion about who could do the searches and how those needed to happen. So this will direct them to make those plans to make sure that those searches are happening when they are suspected or when the drugs are suspected. Also, this clarifies that students can have on possession charges, they can have two chances to do some school supported succession program or class or something like that. But on the third time that that possession offense does need to be referred to the court so that that youth who is having a problem with habitual or repeat drug offenses at the schools can get the help that they need when it comes to distribution at the schools. This bill makes it so that distribution, so if they are dealing drugs at the schools that it will be referred to the courts. There has been a problem with clarity. It's just not been clear at the school with what's going on. We've made it more clear here. I don't think anybody wants the drug problems at the schools, but they are happening. And so with that, Mr. Speaker, I'm open to any more questions.

Thank you. I think I'll just add that there are some things that are happening in the school where the children are paying per puff. They're ven mowing. When they go into the bathroom, the, the vapes and TCS are taped to toilets. They take it take a puff, Venmo, somebody. There's some really strategic things that are happening. They're spraying spray deodorant at the same time as puffing the vapes so that they're not detected by the THC monitors. Um, we just really need to help them. They need us to take an interest in this. And if we make these clear, uh, parameters in the law, then it will be more kind to all of the students and to the administrators. So with that, I hope my colleagues will vote for the bill. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. President. Um, this Bill Modernizes and recognizes Utah's school-based juvenile justice statutes by defining key terms and consolidating reporting search and immunity provisions for consistent statewide applications. It requires mandatory referral for the third drug offense on school property, distinguishing between distribution and possession, and it protects reporting employees from retaliation, clarifies reasonable search warrants and reinforces Utah's dive divers diversion First approach for low level misconduct. With that, I'll yield to any questions Looking for questions.

Thank you Mr. President. Um, as a sponsor, yield for questions? Yes. Senator Weiler, were You yield? Yes. So as we look at kids moving from, um, childhood to adulthood, carrying these offenses with them into adulthood, sometimes this has a negative impact on their success. I've been told that this is going to make them carry those offenses into adulthood. Uh, is that true?

So, Senator Wiley, Mr. President, i, I, I think that the good senator might be referring to some prior versions of the bill. Um, I will say what this does, when we passed, uh, JRI, um, quite a while ago, um, I don't know that we anticipated the same students getting arrested over and over for selling drugs at school. So what this says is, if it's your third offense, uh, that you can be referred to law enforcement and I think, I think that's appropriate. I think, you know, it's, it's kind of a three strikes in you're out in terms of, of just getting a, a slap on your hand at school policy.

Thank you. Um, I, I, I have concerns with that. 'cause you know, our kids really are still developing their brains. That's why they're not allowed to drink and well, they shouldn't be drinking, but I, I, I have a problem with kids being treated like adults and then having those infractions carried with them for the rest of their lives. Um, it, it really has a negative impact of ability to move on. It's really fun when kids get to college and they get to reinvent themselves and this thinks like something that they would carry them be carried further. So I'm a no

Thank you. Um, I, I do think that this bill has improved through the process and I, I think when we opened up some of these avenues with JRI, we didn't necessarily think about if there were serial, serial serial offenders and whether they should get the same treatment as a first time offender. With that summation, I will, um, I will, under suspension of the rules, move that third substitute house bill 180 8 pass.