H.B. 192 Vehicle Inspection Fee Amendments: transcript

I still waiting to hear back. Okay. So, um, speaking to Bill 1 92, uh, this came up from someone down in my district. He owns an auto shop. And if you remember back in the day, every year you used to have to do two things to register your car, especially for the, uh, cars along the Wasatch front, not, uh, down in Sanpete County and San Juan County outside the road. But we had to get admissions inspections and safety inspections. And the safety inspection was simple. Checked the windshield wipers, turning lights, headlights, brake lights, basic stuff, right? And then in 2017 they passed. Let's get rid of the safety inspections. Cops can cite people if the car has issues and they'll go get it fixed. And here we are. But one thing that did not change and was just still left in code, is a mandatory safety inspection fee. Interestingly enough, we removed the mandatory fee for admissions, which we still do, but we kept the one for safety inspections. So, uh, this bill simply is removing the mandatory cap for safety inspections. The only cars that are required to get safety inspection are, uh, salvage titles. And that's to make sure that they're, uh, highway worthy. And so they're coming and they're getting anything from a bumper to bumper inspection, depending on what the damage was. It might've just been, uh, a hailstorm. So this might be some surface damage or it might have been a rebuild engine. And so these, uh, auto shops are saying at this price, I can only send my guy for 15 minutes to do a safety inspection so that car's getting a 15 minute safety inspection for 30 bucks or 40 bucks, or whatever it is gonna be. So they've asked, let's just do a a, this is a free market bill. Let's let the shops, uh, charge a fair market price. And the market will sort of determine where that goes. If it's a 15 minute inspection, I imagine it'll be similar to the $30. If you're gonna get a full bumper to bumper rebuild inspection, it's probably gonna be more 'cause they're gonna spend more time making sure the car is actually street worthy. Um, and just, I got asked this question. One thing that came up when I was talking with this with, uh, Representative Peterson, he said, okay, well how many salvage titles are brought up on any given year? Last year we had 3.3 million cars registered in the state of Utah and 36,000 salvage titles. So 1% of the cars are gonna require a safety inspection. But 99% of the cars, if you go take it in to get a safety inspection, whether you're buying a used car or just wanna get it checked out, um, it wouldn't be mandatory. So free market bill, just asking for a free market that set the price instead of capping these. And the guy that actually requested this did not renew his inspection license this year. 'cause he was not getting, he was, he turned them away because he was losing business by doing safety inspections. So anyway, so that's my presentation. Would love any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I support the bill as long as the pricing is posted and well accessible because most people are going to assume their safety inspection is 15 to $30. However, we don't know what that number is. So if it wants to be 150, I'm okay with 150 as long as people know what they're buying. So as long as it's posted available so people readily see what that charge is, I'm good with it, I guess.

No questions there. So, uh, I, I have what's, I have a question for, uh, our sponsor. If, if the fee is not posted or communicated ahead of time, what's to prevent someone from going in and they expect a $30 or $40 safety inspection, say, Hey, you don't, I don't should expect my car. And then they come out and they get a bill for 75, $80. What's, what's to prevent, uh, that from happening?

Um, I mean it could te technically happen or like a $500 bill, right? Right. Who knows what it would be? Um, norm Thur, not Norm Thurston, is it Representative Thurston Pro? Uh, he said, well, that would be a consumer protections issue. Probably go to them and they would follow up with the person. But that's a fair point. And they should have the, the prices posted. Maybe we include an amendment that, that makes sure that the, whatever the hourly rate is, is gonna be posted before work is done. I think that would be a great addition to the bill if we uh, uh, could do that.

Thank you Mr. Chair. I was gonna ask and I wasn't then I, I I, I support this bill and I, I guess I have a question for the sponsor in the larger context and, and sort of going to these other questions. 'cause we're habituated to think of that as a flat fee. And so there is the notice issue, which I think would be a good one to address. You know, the other question and, and you recounted that the person who suggested it to you had actually quit offering the service. And I think one good point of this bill would be to encourage more businesses to offer the service, right? 'cause they can make money at it. So that makes sense. I guess one thought, the countervailing thought, and I just wondered if you have any observation about this, would be to just have a higher standard fee and one that's susceptible to being modified over time to inflation, where we keep it a known quantity. Uh, you know, just because I can see a reason for a known quantity and a set quantity, but I can also see a need to raise that on a market sensitive basis. So I just wondered if you'd looked into that. But regardless, uh, I'm gonna support that this bill. I just

Okay. Appreciate that. Uh, thinking about that just is gonna force, force us to come back and, and, and look at it again.

And, and I would also look at it saying, well really there's two types of inspections that's going on there. The superficial quick one, looking at the headlights, blinkers wipers where you're buying a car or something, you're just like, Hey, just take a quick look at it. They're gonna charge probably whatever that max is anyway. If, if it, if we raise it to $70, that just becomes the standard, I'm guessing, uh, regardless of the time or if they're doing a bumper to bumper looking at the axles, the joints, the drive train, um, again, you're gonna get whatever that time allotment allows, which is $70 worth of man hour. It's so it it's gonna be a quick look. Yeah, it looks good. It's not dripping oil or they're actually going to actually tinker around and make sure that there's a safe vehicle there. So you're getting a degree of you safety inspections depending on what the car needs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So that, that would be my one argument for just saying let the market dictate it.

I, I mean, I guess the mar the, the only response to that would be, uh, you know, that it, it wouldn't necessarily take an act of the legislature to amend the price if you delegated rulemaking authority that it could be adjusted on an annual basis or something.

But I appreciate the thinking on it. Yeah, and I like the change. Thank you. Yeah, Thank you. Okay.

Thank you. Uh, Mr. Vice chair. So I'm, I'm wondering about vehicle inspections for fleet vehicles. So this is just for reg, uh, passenger vehicles. They do require, uh, their own,

they're in their own separate category. This is j So Fleet vehicles are in a different category or a different section of the code that this doesn't touch. Yep. Okay. All Right.

Uh, Representative Hansen. Oh, Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I, uh, I think it's a great bill. Um, I am in favor of the free market and let the customer decide where they want to go. If it's too expensive, don't go there. Um, and I, I really appreciate rep, uh, representative Shelley's comment about, um, posting the prices in the spirit of no junk fees. I think that that's a good thing. Thank you. Uh, Representative Shelley, can we go back?

my other personality coming out. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, so as the discussion goes on, it uh, engages a thought process. I would recommend you not give up on the free market idea. Let the market set this. If I started a business and I wanted to say, you know what, not only are you getting an inspection from me, but I'm guaranteeing my inspection. So if your car is up for sale, you can say it passed this inspection and I'll guarantee it. So if they have failures in any of these parts, you send 'em to me and I'll pay to fix it, and I'm gonna charge you for it. But here's how much it's gonna cost you. I mean, and it is just an idea, but I'm saying when you let the market work, many things come from it. If we, if we regulate a price, you limit, you limit the ability to expand. So I, I think it's a great bill. I want to make sure that the, that the pricing is readily available. Not some back door stuck on the door or something. Um, but I, I would, I would assure you that I think if you let the market set this, you'll see great things happen.

So I think, I think the idea that I've come to understand in my head is like, we want the fee to be posted generally, right? I don't care what the fee is. The market will, as, as Representative Shelley and Representative Hansen has said, the market will, will regulate itself. Right? If you're, if you're, yeah. Yeah. And, but I do think it should be posted, um, you know, somewhere in, in the shop or whatever. Because I think if it's just stated, sometimes the attendant will forget to state what the fee is and sure. They might be sued or whatever, and we don't want to create more litigation. So yeah,

Yeah, it's on line 40. This'll be a new line. 40. Yeah, so a new line 40. Um, a safety inspection station charging a fee as described in subsection four, shall conspicuously post and communicate the fee amount before performing a safety inspection.

Can I just add something to that, uh, where the customer is so that it doesn't end up in the shop, but it's actually where the customer is?

Yep, that looks good. I'd be fine with that.

Just emailed it to you. If you could prove it strongly. It's not a verbal and it's not subject to the 15.

Can, Can I make, tell me, I'm, I've got a question about, and this is semantics, but conspicuously post, I'm confused by and communicate. Can we put and or communicate?

Yeah, it looks like I proposed this. Apparently it does, It does look like that. I I will make that, uh, uh, motion to amend.

I move that we favorably recommend HB 1 92 as amended vehicle inspection fee amendments.

Thank you. Thank you for letting me, uh, come before you today. And house Bill 1 92. This is more of just a cleanup bill. If you remember back five plus years ago, we had to go get our car safety inspection every year. They'd check your blinkers, your headlights, your taillights, and then we stopped doing that. And, uh, just Uintah a different method. But they're still in the books that require a mandatory safety inspection fee of $40. So if you're buying a new car or something like that, you take it in no matter what the inspection is gonna cover. Uh, they can only charge $40. It might be bumper to bumper transmission axles, engine checks, anything. The state only requires $40. So, um, talking to a few of the auto shops that are out there, the car shops, uh, some of them are completely getting rid of their safety inspection licenses because it's a loss leader for them. So they're leaving the market, good people are leaving the market. And so they've asked if we could remove the cap and just let them charge a market fee. And people have to know beforehand what they would pay, just like a regular shop. But, um, if you're, if it's gonna be a small safety inspection, then it's gonna be a small fee. If it's gonna be bumper to bumper, very deep and thorough, it might be an hourly fee. But that's all. It just removes the state mandatory fee and lets them charge a market rate. Thank you. Yeah, That Concludes your presentation. That concludes my presentation.

May I respond to? Go ahead. Thank you. Uh, chair. Um, I think one market study that's out there now along the Wasatch front, we, uh, our counties still have mandatory admissions checks every year. I don't know, I'm not sure about Washington County, but no, they don't. Along the Wasatch front we do. Um, and in Weber County, they have a cap. They have a mandatory cap that's $40 is what you can, you can't charge more than $40. In Utah County where I'm from, there's no cap. It's just market rate. So it's just whatever it is. So is what's happened is up in Weber, everybody's charging $40 every time down in Utah County, it ranges from $30 up to 40. But it's, it's actually lower than what just the cap is. Um, maybe It's okay. I, Well, yeah. And just, that's just the market rate. There might be an occasional outlier where someone has a bad experience and, uh, that's why we have the, uh, consumer don't go back consumer protection or word spreads or something. But they won't be in business very long, I'd think. But good, good. Can appreciate that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I don't remember why I actually thought that we did away with safety checks. And I don't remember why we Uintah caps. Do you know that history? But we just never removed the caps. The, those caps were there. Even when we were doing the safety inspections, we got rid of the inspections, but didn't do this. The cap stayed. The cap stayed. The cap stayed with the, I thought we got rid of the safety inspection. So I am concerned about whether or not people are going to understand, like, I mean, 'cause I, I don't know that I would understand what is, you know, a, a lower cost safety check and what is a higher, higher cost. I'm concerned that, am I going to get charged for a higher one? You know, am I, are they gonna upsell me? 'cause I don't know. The difference is, is this something that I don't, I mean, that's a concern with any visit to the, any car lot or anything. Right? You go in there and you hope you're getting a good experience. So this would be just, it's the market. Yeah. So I, I mean, I don't have a, If there's a cap, there's a cap, then I know right? But because we're only talking about changing it from a cap to no cap, right?

Right. Yeah. Just the market fee.

And then one person had a concern. There's like, I would like them to actually put the, what their rate is somewhere in the office, so I know what I'm getting into.

Okay. Before they actually do the work and then say, you owe me $40. What's that? 40? Your bill. Yeah, that was the first substitute in there was disclosure.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just, I I think it's might be more that confusing than Makes me feel better Than not, but thank you.

Model? I've talked to the state tax commission and they sent me data. They said three and a half million cars were registered last year and roughly 35,000 inspections. So 1% or less. So they Actually record with the tax commission. Well, it's get, because they charge a safety something. I don't know. It gets recorded out. It gets recorded as a safety fee. Yeah.

And, and there are still a few vehicles that we do require to have a safety Right. Inspection on. So Yeah, I know. You know, anyway. Yeah, but there's not a lot anymore, right?

I'd make the motion that we favorably recommend house bill 1 92.

Waive. Thank you,

Thank you Mr. Speaker. This is more of a, just a small cleanup Bill. If you remember, every year we had to get our cars, uh, have a safety inspection done where they check your blinkers, your headlights, your wipers, the different things of your car. Uh, we have a cap fee on there of $40. We got rid of the safety inspection, the mandatory safety inspection, but we did never, we never got rid of the mandatory $40 fee. So now if you take your car in for, uh, inspection, whether you're just checking the headlights taillights or doing a full bumper to bumper, uh, deep inspection, the most they can charge is $40. This simply eliminates the fee and lets, uh, the market rate decide the rate.

I rise in support of this bill. It's a good bill. Thank you

And will this speaker or the sponsor yield to a question please? Representative Shallenberger, will you yield?

Yes. Yes. Representative Strong.

Okay. So previously, if somebody came in for an inspection, just, Hey, I'm going on a trip, I need my car inspected, would they could only charge $40 for that. Uh, maximum of $40. Right. Okay. So now currently that's gone and they can charge whatever is appropriate for whatever type of inspection you want.

Uh, yeah, we added language that they need to post the fee and it has to be disclosed in the, the, in the office so you can see what you're getting. If it's an hourly fee, if 15 minutes, you know what you're getting. If it's gonna take two hours, you know what you're gonna be paying.

Okay. And one last question if I could, Mr. Speaker, um, they have to post this fee. I mean, if you're getting a safety inspection similar to what we used to have, I'm assuming, you know, they would post that, but I might take my car in and say, Hey, inspect my vehicle for me. Um, meaning, you know, whatever we'd agree upon, does that have to be posted?

Not if you just agree on whatever you're agreeing on that have done with your car. You can agree on your own terms with the, the auto dealer.

Okay. Or the, the auto station. Yeah. Sounds good. Thank you.

Thank you. Will the sponsor yield to a couple of questions?

Yes, yes. Representative Acton.

So it sounds like they would, you know, every place might be a different amount. Um, so you might need to shop from place to place to figure out where to get a good deal. But is it anticipated that this will cost more for the consumer?

No. No. And if I can expand on that just a tiny bit, uh, the emission along the Wasatch front, we still have required emissions annually and those are now dictated by county. So up in, uh, Weber County, they have capped that at $40, I think $40 or $45 per emissions inspection down in Utah County. We just let the market decide and they range anywhere from 30 to $45. So actually less down in Utah County where it's just a free market.

Okay, thank you Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, you know, when we have other services performed, we don't have the government telling us, you know, what the price of our brakes are gonna be, what the price of changing tires gonna be. I think, you know, without the safety inspection program, I think it's time to just let the market drive those decisions and those market forces could drive the prices down. Some people might wanna do that and some places it might be high. So it's up to the, up to us as consumers to, to go where we want to go. And if we want to go to, uh, get a lower price, uh, then we'll go to those places and it'll drive the prices at the market rate. And I think this is a great bill, so I support it. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker will sponsor yield Representative Shallenberger, will you yield?

Yes, yes. Representative

Peterson. Thank you. Uh, I have a question. I've, I'm not sure if we require any safety inspections anymore, and I'm just curious. Uh, last year when we went on a trip, I took my car to a dealership and asked them to do a pre look over pre-trip. They called it a pre-trip inspection. I think it was $150. It wasn't a safety inspection. So I'm just curious if this would affect, uh, that and, and, and do, if it would hurt dealerships to do those pre-trip safety inspections. I have no idea what a pre-trip safety inspection consists of.

So, good, good question.

I I guess that's why I have some hesitation with this bill. Is it, I don't, I guess maybe another question is, do we have, do we require safety inspections? In the state of Utah?

Uh, safety inspections are required in three circumstances. If you're bringing like a four wheeler side by side, trying to get it street worthy, so putting tail lights on it, uh, a shop needs to confirm that it actually is street worthy. If you're building a custom kit car confirming that it's actually road worthy or salvaged titles, uh, getting those back on the road confirming that those would be, uh, highway safe. And I've checked with, uh, the tax commission we have, last year we had 3.5 million cars registered in the state of Utah, and approximately 1%, so around 35,000 of those were salvaged titles. So the only ones that are required out of that, that need a safety inspection. And that also is actually a problem because the salvage titles for $35, you're getting like a 15 minute inspection. And the salvage title might be an engine rebuild, it might be a, uh, a bumper, it might be axles, it might be a lot of stuff. And for 15 minutes, which is what you're gonna get for $35 is it might need more. If you're doing a pre-trip inspection or just checking the headlights or taillights, then that would be significantly shorter and might actually require 15 minutes rather than a deeper dive bumper to bumper inspection. So for 90% of the cars, we don't require anything.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I think with that being said, I would like to agree with representative, the good representative from Utah County, and that I think the free market should drive this. And while I appreciate what the sponsors trying to do, I think the further requirements we're putting in are kind of prohibitive. So I'd like to see us just eliminate the section and not add anything. And then for that, I think I'm gonna vote against what we're doing, uh, and hope that maybe we can just get rid of the requirement altogether.

Thank you. And, uh, as Representative Hansen, uh, excitedly pointed out, this is one of the few circumstances we're getting government out of the way, uh, for businesses instead of putting further restrictions on them. And, uh, I'm excited for that also.

Thank you. A number of years ago, uh, the legislature repealed the, uh, safety and inspection program. However, it kept a requirement for salvage vehicles, street legal ATVs and kit cars to still be safety inspected before going on the road. Um, we left in a fee cap from that's been in there for over 10, probably 12 years. What this bill does remove that inspection fee cap. So someone needs to do that. They can work with the, uh, inspection station and uh, shop around for the best rate.

Thank Good. Move that house. Bill 1 92, be read for a third time. Thank

Senator Spry Lewin Brammer Ramer bus Comore. Aye. Escamilla Gilmore. Grover Harper. Aye. Hankins Kinins. Ipson. Aye. Johnson Juab Quan McKay Aye. Mikel Aye. Milner Musselman Owens pitcher Plum Rebe. Aye. Sandal Stevenson Stratton. Yes. Bickers. Aye. Weiler Wilson. Aye. Winterton Lewin Baldy. Aye. Bus President Adams Aye.

Thank you Mr. President. This bill came directly from special education parents

Thank you, Mr. President.