H.B. 205 Substance Use Intervention Amendments

What this bill does

The bill would let local governments create 'stay out of drug areas' where law enforcement can keep repeat offenders out of targeted public spaces with open drug markets. It would also set up step courts that use swift, predictable, proportionate consequences and create dedicated jail recovery pods for inmates seeking sobriety.

Plain-English summary written by AI from the sponsor’s presentation in committee and on the floor. Check the official text below.

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Every vote

• 9 yes, 0 no, 2 absentHouse Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee: vote to change the bill · Feb 2, 2026Who voted how
• 10 yes, 0 no, 1 absentHouse Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee: vote to approve it · Feb 2, 2026Who voted how
• 71 yes, 1 no, 3 absentFinal House vote · Feb 11, 2026Who voted how
• 5 yes, 0 no, 4 absentSenate Judiciary, Law Enforcement, and Criminal Justice Committee: vote to approve it · Feb 26, 2026Who voted how
• 28 yes, 0 no, 1 absentFinal Senate vote · Mar 5, 2026Who voted how
• 28 yes, 0 no, 1 absentFinal Senate vote · Mar 5, 2026Who voted how
• 69 yes, 1 no, 5 absentHouse vote to accept the other chamber's changes · Mar 6, 2026Who voted how

Hearings and debates

• Feb 2, 2026 House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee▶ Watch
  Transcript (60 turns)

  1. Rep. Tyler Clancy2:00:44

     Representative Clancy. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome. This is now the last item on our agenda, house bill 2 0 5. Well, thank you. Thank you. Chair Wilcox, and thank you committee. I've got, uh, my slides pulled up. Is that possible to, uh, connect that, uh, Lacey? Oh, there we go. It's there. Okay. Well, thank you so much committee, and thank you Mr. Chair for hearing us out on this important legislation. Um, I don't need to underscore and, and rehash the, the current crisis that, uh, our country and our state is in. Um, if you look at the, uh, drug overdose deaths, we're, we're starting to see some positive progress, um, in the state of Utah and in the country. Um, but if you look at the bottom graph on here, when you look at 2004, and then you look at 2022, you can see while we're, while we're seeing progress, uh, we, it, it came at the, uh, a tremendous toll of loss of life, um, for the overdose crisis. Um, and the drug crisis in general brings us a twofold challenge. One is, obviously the mortality posed by fatal, uh, opioid overdose, mostly driven by fentanyl. But also what we're seeing is a, a a, a challenge of urban disorder, uh, driven by those same drugs along with methamphetamine. So, house Bill 2 0 5 is, uh, attempting to, to help give our state some more tools, help give our cities and counties more tools to effectively address this crisis in a, in a thoughtful way. So the first piece I wanna talk about is, and I'll be speaking to the first substitute, uh, committee. So the, the first thing we're looking at is, is making sure our harm reduction programs are in partnership with our local political subdivisions. So, just to give you an example, we've been working, uh, last year we passed a law that was restricting harm reduction distribution from areas that we would deem to be drug free zones or areas that we would deem to be recovery, uh, places so permanent supportive housing and homeless shelters. We're also putting that into place with public parks, which is another drug free zone in under existing Utah law. And we're also adding a 100 foot buffer zone. So unfortunately, what we saw when we passed the law last year is that while the distribution of, of needles and other, um, drug supplies didn't take place in the permanent supportive housing for people that are working to recover from drug addiction, it just was on the sidewalk right outside. So, unfortunately, we are gonna be more specific in this and making sure that we're protecting those places for recovery. So the city of San Francisco, just last year, actually restricted all delivery of harm reduction, uh, supplies. So they basically said, if you need to, uh, uh, get these supplies and, and you, I'm sure you'll hear from people, uh, in public comment about the research and the data behind this, you need to do it indoors. Um, we're not even going as far as San Francisco, uh, the most progressive city, um, on Earth. I would, or at least in the United States, we're actually just saying that in order to do needle distribution and public property, you have to have the partnership of the local political subdivision that you're going to do that distribution on. So if you're gonna do it on public property, you just have to get that written permission from that government entity. And so, what what we're doing here is making sure that we're being intentional. Harm reduction is a strategy about reducing harm as a whole to the community. And so when you're bringing people that are in active drug use and active drug addiction into places that are meant for recovery, or in the case of public parks, these are places that are designated as drug free zones in Utah law. That's an opportunity that we have to, to just clarify that, make sure we can keep the good work going on, but be intentional about what we're doing here. It also restricts, uh, it, it clarifies rather that harm reduction is about clean needles. This is, so we're not going to have, uh, crack pipes. Um, and other, and I'll leave it to your imagination, but other devices that are used to ingest drugs into one's body. So the research and the data is about, uh, needle, ex needle exchange, which is about reducing hepatitis CHIV and aids. And so the distribution of pipes, tinfoil and smoking supplies, um, we, we were making sure that we're being intentional about what the state of Utah's policy is. The second tool we're giving is the, uh, what's called a state out of drug area notice. So what you'll see in these pictures here, these are pictures from the Salt Lake City Police Department, uh, drug bust. And I, this gentleman sitting next to me about a week after he was appointed as the by Mayor Mendenhall as the Chief of Salt Lake City Police Department, he called me about an issue about public parks. They arrested, uh, built a long-term investigation on a fentanyl dealer that was dealing to people that were struggling with addiction at, I believe it was Liberty Park. They built that long-term investigation. They arrested that, uh, dealer, and within a matter of hours, he was back out at the same location. It was a public park dealing drugs to individuals in addiction. And so what this stay out of drug area allows to do, similar to when there's a domestic violence offense that takes place and someone's given pretrial release, there's a location restriction built in to that pretrial release. So if my partner, uh, hurt me, that partner can still bail out. We're not changing the bail laws, but the, but, uh, my partner's not allowed to come to my residence or come to my place of work. Similarly, this allows cities to work with their city attorney's office and use data to show where the most, uh, high impact drug offenses are. And so, while the city can build a long-term investigation, arrested drug dealer, the judge might still let them out, but we're gonna make sure that they have to cool off from these high, high impact drug areas. And so we're putting a restriction that would be similar to a protective order violation if they went there again. So the idea, if you're dealing Fentanyl and Liberty Park, you get arrested, you bail out if you're back at Liberty Park the same day, we, we know what you're doing. And so we need you to cool off and stay out of that. Once again, we're trying to find bipartisan solutions here. This stay out of drug area. One of the areas that it was, uh, piloted in last year was the city of Seattle. So, once again, this is not a draconian method. This is just data driven and trying to be smart about what we're doing here. The next puzzle piece is about step step courts. Um, if you look at the bottom left here, this is numbers from Hawaii's Hope probation program. This is something that, uh, Arnold Ventures has done a lot of research on the idea that individuals respond to, um, uh, swift certain and fair consequences. And so right now, in order to get into drug court, you have to commit a class, a misdemeanor or a felony offense. So there's a lot of individuals that are cycling through the system, but they're doing so at the justice court level, a, the step court pilot program. And you'll probably hear from the administrative office of the courts, we've tried to make this workable. Uh, uh, I think we're in a good place here, but we're allowing justice court judges to have some of those similar tools that they would have in drug court or another specialty court. So to be creative, but building on the research of Swift Certain and Fair, finally, um, we are setting some standards for jail recovery pods. So, um, there's a lot of debate, I think that happens in this space about what the appropriate intervention is for individuals who are deeply afflicted by drug addiction. And because of that addiction, they're, they're cycling through the, um, the criminal justice system often. And so this isn't wading into that debate, but rather we're, we're acknowledging a reality that says a lot of individuals that are plagued by drug addiction end up in our county jails. So the, this picture here is actually from the Salt Lake County Jail. This from the, the Katz, uh, program, um, which is the recovery pod that the Salt Lake County Jail has built. What HB 2 0 5 does is it sets standards. So basically, if another county wanted to create a jail recovery pod program, um, they would be able to work in these guidelines and create those tools, um, to help people recover. So, um, with that, I just wanted to give, uh, chief Red of the Salt Lake City Police Department, just a, a minute or two to share about the Downtown Safety Initiative and what he believes the this legislation could give more tools to.

  2. Brian Redd, Chief, Salt Lake City Police Department2:08:50

     Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee. Uh, Brian Red, uh, chief of Police, Salt Lake City Police Department. Just wanna thank the sponsor for all of his work on this bill and the collaborative effort, uh, the collaborative approach that he is taking to, to address all these issues. Um, I, the thing that I like about this bill is it is strengthening, uh, our public safety and accountability in, in our community, but also providing support to individuals who are caught in this intersection of criminal behavior or substance use, mental illness and homelessness in many cases. Um, increasing support for these individuals so they can, they can get off the streets and, and get the help that they need while they're, uh, and, and then also, um, giving them incentives as you hear in the bill to, to, to progress. Um, uh, you know, we, we are committed as a police department in creating safe public spaces. Uh, we are having some challenges in our parks currently. We want, uh, families, individuals, and, and kids to be able to go to the parks and feel safe. We're having some challenges in those. And so this bill will help in decreasing drug activity in our parks and ensuring they're clean and safe for, for people to go and, and visit them. So we appreciate the sponsor. Uh, again, we're committed to, to creating a safe Salt Lake City, um, and working together to make sure everyone is safe, supported, and accountable. Thank chief. Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee. That concludes our presentation.

  3. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:10:14

     Thank you, representative. That almost sounded rehearsed. Chief Rad. That was a good line. Um, any questions? That's our vision statement. Oh wow. Working together to build a community where everyone is safe, supported, and accountable. Okay. So It was Rehearsed, so it was rehearsed and, and we're drilling it into everyone and that we work with. Okay. Well that well done. It's easy to remember now. I can do the commercial if I need to. Oh, that's right. You hired the former news guy as your comms director. Now I know where that came from. Okay. Any clarifying questions from the committee by the way?

  4. Unknown committee member2:10:47speaker not certain

     Um, I mean, my consternation aside about copying anything Seattle does or San Francisco, uh, I, I appreciate all the work that's gone into this. I've had enough conversations with you about it offline that I am, I'm excited to see how this goes. Um, so I appreciate all the work that's gone in, in the interim.

  5. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:11:07

     Um, I don't see any further questions from the committee, so I'll go ahead and turn to public comment. Is anyone here to speak to this bill? Keep your hands up please. Thank if Okay. We're not gonna do like a ton. 'cause my guess is you're all gonna say, I want to do this, but, uh, if not, uh, you know, line up. Let's hear it.

  6. Preston Cochran, CEO, The Other Side Village2:11:27

     Alright, we'll be quick. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. Thank you. My name is Preston Cochrane. I'm the CEO of the Other Side Village. We are a community of healing and purposeful living for individuals that have experienced chronic homelessness located in Pop Grove. Uh, I'm here in support of HB 2 0 5, uh, for all the reasons that, uh, Representative Clancy mentioned. Uh, we believe that, uh, this bill moves us toward intervention structure, accountability and real pathways to change. So I would urge your support of this bill with me is Mo Egan, our director of recruiting, um, who will share just a brief, uh, about his story. Yeah. Uh, my name is Mo Egan and I'm the director of Recruitment for the Other Side Village. I'm also a board, uh, chair appointed to the Utah Homeless Services, uh, board, a person with lived experience. And, uh, I've been clean and sober for 19 years, but I started using drugs at 10 years old and I ran with drugs and alcohol for over 20 years. And I was homeless for 10 years in the Tenderloin District in San Francisco, California. So, I'm not guessing on this. Here's what keeps people stuck when it's easy to get high when you're in the same spots around the same people doing the same routine every day. That's why I support HB 2 0 5 Parks and schools shouldn't be caught in the middle of drug activity and distribution. If we really wanna work and if we want folks to get better, we gotta set some boundaries, some boundaries that keep kids and families safe, that help people step away from their chaos and make reel with structure and accountability. Thank you.

  7. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:13:20

     Do you wanna go first? No, go ahead.

  8. Molly Wheeler, Utah League of Cities and Towns2:13:24

     Hi there. Mr. Chair, members of the committee, Molly Wheeler with the Utah League of Cities and Towns. We wanted to thank the sponsor, chief Red and all the other stakeholders who have worked on this bill and voice our support. Oftentimes when we're talking about substance abuse, we're talking about public safety and municipal action, and we appreciate the tools that this brings in that space, but also the very collaborative and, uh, nature and the partnership with other jurisdictions, other entities, and making sure that those can foster success for everyone involved, specifically those who are struggling with a substance abuse issue.

  9. Matt Dumont, Chief Deputy, Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office2:14:00

     Thank you. Hello, my name is Matt Dumont. I'm the, uh, chief Deputy for the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office Corrections Bureau. And I want to thank Representative Clancy, uh, for the collaboration and including us in the conversation. Um, the Katz program, which he, uh, represents or that he, uh, discussed, it's the Correctional Addiction Treatment Services Program has been in operation since 1999. And we've seen, uh, thousands of lives changed, uh, for the better. Um, and would certainly like to encourage other gels, uh, to having a similar program, uh, when, when at all possible. So, thank you.

  10. Mackenzie Bray, Executive Director, Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project2:14:46

      Good afternoon. My name is Mackenzie Bray. I am the Executive Director of Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project. And for a little bit of background, I have a Master's in Public Health from Johns Hopkins, Bloomberg School Public Health, where I'm also currently a doctoral student. And, uh, like many Utahans I've been affected by the overdose epidemic. I have a brother who passed away in 2016, so coming up about 10 years, um, from an overdose. And there's some good components of this bill. I have concerns specifically about restricting syringe exchange programs from operating in parks. And with that drug use is going to happen and, and public drug use is a concern for everyone. The big thing with syringe exchange too, is we are there to also collect things that are like the syringes, the used paraphernalia. We collect it, so it's make sure that it's no longer in the parks. Some of our folks will get sharps containers and collect like a, they see syringe litter, they'll collect it, they'll give us a call, we can take it, make sure it's properly disposed of, so it's not in the parks. Uh, we also don't just do syringes. We provide h uh, HIV testing linkage to care. We collect a lot of folks, uh, to treatment that we meet in the parks. And one big, uh, big concern would be distri, uh, distribution of Naloxone. If syringe exchanges aren't allowed to operate in public parks anymore, my big concern is not drug use is gonna go down. We're gonna see drug use stay the same, and we're gonna see fatal overdoses increase. Um, because if folks don't have access to Naloxone, if there's an opioid, uh, overdose, then there's gonna be fatalities in parks. And, um, public drug use is distressing. It's distressing to everyone. But I think, um, public deaths are a lot more distressing. Um, also have concerns about prohibiting syringe exchanges from providing pipes or other materials. To my knowledge right now, there's no exchanges in Utah who are providing pipes or other materials because we've been wanting to make sure that we're operating in the law how we could do it successfully. But, uh, pipes are actually a great alternative for, because the risk of smoking decreases the risk of an overdose. And it also helps for people who are not injecting, if they're using pipes, um, if they are sharing with others or reusing ones, there's increased risk of HIV and Hepatitis C. So those are my concerns. Thank you.

  11. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:17:00

      I got a question for you here, or do I not? Representative Hall.

  12. Rep. Katy Hall2:17:05

      Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I've heard a lot of things about the harm reduction things, um, but is there, and I've asked this for, um, a few peop different people, and I've never gotten anything. Do you have any data saying that all these things reduce, like opioid addiction and they've reduced the numbers of opioid addicted people?

  13. Mackenzie Bray, Executive Director, Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project2:17:27

      Yeah, we, we've got about 30 years in the published, uh, literature, so yeah, if you want to, I can follow up with showing like, specific stats. 'cause we have states that, similar to Utah too, I would love to see that. And,

  14. Rep. Katy Hall2:17:36

      and then you also talked about collecting things that when you're out in the parks, are you can, what kinds of things can you collect?

  15. Mackenzie Bray, Executive Director, Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project2:17:44

      Yeah, so primarily we're thinking like syringes. Um, but sometimes those other things, uh, our folks will come up and say like, Hey, I found this bottle of pills that's just sitting down somewhere. It's not, it's like a prescription that somebody seemingly has just left or it fell out of a purse. Um, that's happened a couple of times, not frequently, but just enough that there's, or sometimes our folks will collect even like a shattered bottle and they'll collect like the glass pieces too, and they'll say like, oh, I don't want a kid stepping on this. So sometimes it's drug paraphernalia, sometimes it's just things that are generally hazardous And you're allowed to collect the drugs from them. We would Put it, we put it in a sharps container and then we dispose of it, uh, bring it to the drug drop off one. So with that, when it's one with like that where they say like, oh, we just found this right here. Um, with that we'll just kind of take it out rather than just like, leave it out for someone else to, to get their hands on. Okay.

  16. Rep. Katy Hall2:18:34

      I, I'm really excited to see the data that you get me. 'cause it seems like our numbers have just gone exponentially more in recent years. So thank you.

  17. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:18:44

      Thank you representative. How many more do we have in person on this one? Okay.

  18. Katie Spahl, Utah Director, Right on Crime2:18:55

      Hi, committee. My name is Katie Stall. I'm the Utah Director for Right on Crime. And just wanted to thank Representative Clancy for his work on this bill. We feel that, uh, swift Certain and fair is where you really start to see, um, reduction in recidivism and, and safer communities. And we feel that the accountability, uh, balanced with a chance for hope in certain circumstances should prove effective. Just wanted to offer our support.

  19. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:19:25

      Thank you. I think we have a lot of evidence for the Swift, um, come on up. Oh, is this a Twitter? Like both of you? Okay.

  20. Jeff Olson, resident2:19:48

      My name's Jeff Olson. I'm a resident of Salt Lake City. Uh, I moved there a little over six years ago when I retired. I live just a few blocks north of the state fairgrounds. I've been very involved in a whole variety of different, uh, community activities, but I'm not speaking for any of them, so I'm not mentioning them today. Um, started off being very involved in helping people who were dealing with the challenges of, of homelessness and, uh, we continue to do that. Um, my wife and I and our friends, for example, uh, every year, uh, Salt Lake City every month has a a, a resource fair where they feed lunch to bring people together so that they can, um, get services. And every year my friends and I do a barbecue as one of those to, to get an even larger crowd. And this past year we actually had a country band perform to draw more people. So I'm, you know, very much concerned about helping those people. Uh, many have our friends and, um, at the same time, uh, I've been come to know that the parks within Fair Park are rarely used. Um, and when I talk to parents and a lot of the people, fair Park is a wonderful community. I really love it. We have a lot of people who, who are in permanent supportive housing and other things, and they and their families really need green spaces. Uh, and the city has stepped up in a wonderful way and has plans to enhance those green spaces. Uh, the parents do not take their children there. Um, the city enhanced a playground in Madison Park about six months ago. I have not seen a child there, and when I talk to parents about why, it's because of their concerns about what goes on in the park. Um, and even now, the police have done a good job of, of really helping to take care of that, but they're still really nervous about finding needles and other things. Um, and so we really don't want anything to attract, uh, people to the parks that will make the neighbors uncomfortable about going there, make them nervous at all. I learned a week or so ago about a friend of mine who was cleaning up and she actually pricked herself on a needle. And now for I don't know how long, I'm not a medical expert, she'll have to be tested periodically for Hepatitis C and uh, hiv aids. And so, um, there, there are better places than parks. Um, our residents need those green spaces and they need to know that they're safe for them and their children. And, um, I support all, all the provisions of, of this particular bill, but I wanna stress that one and that one because they need these green spaces. It's really sad. We are working on a plan as a community to activate the spaces to make sure they're safe, but then to bring people back through a variety of activities. We're partnering with Salt Lake City and we'll be working on this, that this year, but we, we have to make sure parents know they're safe, and so we really don't wanna attract people to the parks who, um, would make those parents nervous.

  21. Amy Hawkins, resident2:23:27

      Hello, my name is Amy Hawkins and like Jeff Olson. I'm a long time resident of Salt Lake City. I live in the ballpark neighborhood, which experiences, uh, similar challenges to that of the Fair Park neighborhood. Um, we're home to two homeless resource centers and some permanent supportive housing. Um, and I'm here in favor of this bill because again, we're here to make green spaces safer. Um, recently the Salt Lake City Community Redevelopment Agency recommended that we not change the use of the former Smiths Ballpark stadium to a public park because of public safety risks. And, and that really saddens me as a community that has a demonstrable lack of green space. So this, these challenges not only affect our existing green spaces, but they in fact affect the ability of communities that need spaces allocated to them. Um, furthermore, we do have a history of restricting where we grant, uh, access to substances that are legal in this state. Like, um, our alcoholic beverage licenses, we don't grant them within a, uh, specific proximities to community locations like churches, public or private schools, public parks, public playgrounds or library. So I'd urge you to consider then, how do we treat, um, proximity to distributing substances, um, that help the consumption of illegal substances. Um, I brought a little exhibit, I checked in with Representative Clancy ahead of time, but these are some of the needles that we've picked up just in our park strips in our neighborhood. It's full, don't worry. This is Just, uh, diabetes. I'm sure. Uh, if, if only, if only it was Wilford Ryley's chosen, uh, advocacy illness, but it's unfortunate, we hope to see change. I bought a car this year and some of that was in the car from the dealer. That's what I was told. Just it was, I'm sure it was just from diabetes. I'm sorry to hear that. Yes, yes, it was fun.

  22. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:25:35

      Okay, thank you. Uh, we have a few more and then we just, is that just one more in person? Okay. And then we have two online. Okay. Go ahead.

  23. Megan Mills, Statewide Association of Prosecutors2:26:04

      Uh, Megan Mills, again with the Statewide Association of Prosecutors. Um, as a profession, I think we're one of those professions who would love to be out of business, and I think this is a good step in the right direction. Um, what we've learned from a lot of our community partners, especially those with more clinical expertise, is that our current approach is likely waiting too long to get these services to people, um, the people that we serve. And then ultimately, by the time they're getting these services, uh, their chance of recovery is much lower. So I think that this is definitely a step in the right direction in that regard. Um, additionally, there's really something beautiful that happens with a person that, uh, with a person who's struggling, who, uh, participates in a restorative justice court like step, um, you see this kind of realization that the prosecutor isn't just out to get you, the judge isn't out to try to put you in jail. That there really is this hope amongst everybody in the criminal justice system that we can see positive change in the people that we serve. And so, um, for those reasons, uh, SWAP is, is very much in support of this bill. We're grateful for the sponsor for bringing it forward. It does also codify a lot of the things that we already see in place. So, um, but, but hopefully it encourages more of it in other places. Thanks.

  24. Unknown committee member2:27:27speaker not certain

      Thank you. I've got a question for you real quick. So I, I appreciate the statement from SWAP and, and that attitude. Why, why do you think that that, uh, argument can be made that, uh, to make it effective that prosecutors don't just want to put people in jail?

  25. Megan Mills, Statewide Association of Prosecutors2:27:44

      Sorry, I guess I don't understand your question.

  26. Unknown committee member2:27:46speaker not certain

      I mean, I mean that generally speaking, that's the perception. Yes. Which is why we highlight it that, you know, in this case, that may not be the case. Um, why do you think that is?

  27. Megan Mills, Statewide Association of Prosecutors2:27:59

      Well, it's an adversarial system and it has to be right by its very nature. And, um, and so as prosecutors when we come in, it's only natural for us to be seen as in that way, in that light by a defendant. But I don't know, I can't think of a single prosecutor whose heart isn't warmed when we see a defendant turn their life around. 'cause that, that is the ultimate goal, right? Is to make the community better. And that's the best way for it to happen. Yeah. Um, very few of us find a lot of joy in sending people to prison it. And there's A few for sure. Yes. Well, yes, of course. But yeah. But Generally speaking, I appreciate that.

  28. Unknown committee member2:28:41speaker not certain

      I just appreciate that that was in your testimony and, uh, wanted to highlight that you had said that. I think that was, thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay.

  29. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:28:49

      Go ahead and, uh, let's, Scott Howell, we got you online. Scott.

  30. Scott Howell, resident2:28:54

      Yep, I'm here. Thanks, chairman and committee members. Appreciate your time. Scott,

  31. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:29:01

      Can you, can you adjust that so we see more of you and less of your ceiling?

  32. Scott Howell, resident2:29:06

      It's a nice ceiling I just got, so Thank you. Sure. Well, uh, thank you Mr. Chairman and committee members. I really appreciate your time. It, this is deja vu for me. Some 15 years ago, 20 years ago, I was sitting in a committee hearing, listening about harm reduction. And I didn't take, uh, I, I was against it. And then I had some people come in my office and say, this will really cut down on drug use. It'll cut down on overdoses and you should vote for it. And I did. And I followed it for the last many years. And all I can tell you is that harm reduction continues to make no sense to me. And I get these questions, I've had these questions many times. There's five questions that always come to me. And when it comes to HB 2 0 5, uh, people say to me, will it criminalize homelessness? No. HB 2 0 5 targets specific behaviors, public drug use, repeat offenses, not housing status. It pairs accountability with treatment pathways. And I think that's important. Won't restricting, and I, they ask me this all the time, won't restricting harm reduction, increase overdose, unregulated public drug use increases risk HB 2 0 5 restores those boundaries that we should have had a long time ago while directing people toward treatment and recovery focused, focused intervention. And then on this one, this just drives me crazy. The people will say, well, why, why do we ban needle distribution near shelters and parks? Because public spaces should not function as a drug consumption zone. Those are areas that serve families, children, vulnerable residents who deserve safety. And I'm a big fan of sodas, stay out of drug areas. Sodas are targeted, limited and designed to disrupt the predictable drug crime patterns. Just go to Fairmont Park, just go to Liberty Park, pioneer Park, and you'll see that. And it also helps neighborhoods by getting that behavior out of their community. The last one that they asked me, why involve jails and recovery? Many individuals, as I've come to find out struggling with addiction, already intersect with the justice system. They've had a, they've had a, an intersection ignoring addiction at that point. Waste, uh, criminal opportunity for speedy recovery. Step courts, by the way, are swift certain, and I think the representative talked about there's, they do give fair. So in closing, this bill truly helps solve problems instead of recycling them. It, the lack of consequences fuels unpredictable crime. And I always, people say to me, well, are you being compassionate? Compassion that ignores accountability isn't compassion, it's not, it's abandonment. Needles in parks are proof of policy failure, not progress. HB 2 0 5 restores the order without giving up on people. I am so impressed with your committee and the hearing, and I promise you those little containers are not for diabetics else. We'd have a diabetic breakout worse than COVID. It's bad. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

  33. Scott Howell, resident2:32:36

      Uh, happy to answer any question. Thanks committee chairs and thanks to the sponsor. I hope we can get to a five passed.

  34. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:32:43

      Thanks, Scott. Good to see you. And I'm glad your ceiling's clean enough for us to look at.

  35. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:32:47

      Thank you. Alright, Ann. Isaac sin, are you there? Well, we have a question for Scott. No. Okay. Ann Isaacson.

  36. Ann Ruth Isaacson, resident2:32:58

      Hi. Thank you for taking me. Um,

  37. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:33:02

      Ann, is your camera on? There we go. Okay. Now we can see you. Go ahead.

  38. Ann Ruth Isaacson, resident2:33:09

      That's a much better background than Scott's. That's, that's nice. Thank you. I'm not letting you see my ceiling. I lived in Philadelphia for first 18 years of my adult life. I traveled around a lot for my job. I was in San Francisco for 11 years, from 2007 to 2017. When I moved there, I felt that I moved to the greatest place on earth. I lived in a beautiful neighborhood and there was a lot of compassion there for people that had homelessness and drug use. And the laws kept changing to show compassion for those people. And over the years, the drug use and the needles on the street took over the entire city, including the beautiful part of the city I lived in. We couldn't walk out of our building without walking over people. The sidewalks in front of our home. We would find needles on a regular basis. Um, I moved to Salt Lake City in 2017 thinking I was getting away from this. I live in Central City. I love Utah. I've been here for 2017. I'm involved in a lot of community stuff. I'm only speaking for myself. But I will tell you in my building where we have some young families, we had a 6-year-old boy walk just outside and so excited. He ran inside. He, he found something to show his dad. It was a needle. We've had homeless people throwing needles. Maybe they weren't homeless. Maybe there were regular people throwing needles over our yard fence because they see there's a dumpster there. So the needles end up on the ground. I've had a neighbor who has a habit of cleaning up the neighborhood he loves doing. So when he started picking up needles, he had a needle stick. And like someone else reported, he spent a year, um, having to be tested for HIV, et cetera. And it continues to create anxiety in his life. I think it's a good bill, unlike anyone else's stating though, I think it doesn't go far enough. I think San Francisco is a little too late to start turning some things around. It's had a tremendous harm to their city and what's happening to the city. And I I, I came here to a beautiful city to get away from that. And I am supportive of this bill, but I would like it to go a bit further. I do not. I think if you wanna give people needles so they could chew up, shoot up safely, it should be done under supervision. And then if they overdose, you give them maxline. I don't think they should be given needles to walk around anywhere. 'cause it ends up outside our homes in our backyards and it doesn't belong there. So I support the bill with the caveat that I think you need an amendment that says they should only be given out in a space where there's medical supervision. They shoot up there and they don't leave with needles. 'cause they always end up on the streets. That's my full comment.

  39. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:36:30

      Thank you. And you have incredible glasses. Thank you Ann Ruth. Thank you. All right. Chris Sharp.

  40. Chris Sharp, Senior Fellow, Cicero Institute2:36:39

      Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee. Uh, thank you for taking the time to speak about this bill.

  41. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:36:43

      Um, Chris? Yes, sir. We go now we can see you. Go ahead.

  42. Chris Sharp, Senior Fellow, Cicero Institute2:36:46

      All right, perfect. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee. Uh, thank you for taking the time. I'm a senior fellow at the Cicero Institute that focuses on public safety, homelessness, and criminal justice reform. Prior to that, I was a probation officer that dealt with mentally ill offenders and co-occurring substance abuse disorders. Uh, retired military officer and have worked in the criminal justice and public policy space for about 25 years. Currently throughout Utah, 75% of unsheltered homeless or chronic substance abusers, or seriously mentally ill, according to HUD's, 2024 point in time counts these individuals cycle in and out of Utah's prisons and jails, where according to the Utah Foundation, 80 to 90% of inmates in Utah suffer from a co-occurring substance use and mental health disorder. These facts contribute to Utah's revolving door of three year recidivism rates, which range between 46 and 59%. According to CCJ from 20 2004 to 2014, Utah's prison population increased 18% and was projected to increase in additional 37% over the next two decades. With drug possession being the largest contributor to that rise, we we do. Utah does have treatment focus programs like the first district co district drug court reporting, a 15% recidivism rate illustrating that structured evidence-based treatment programs work. This bill takes the outcomes proven treatment focus of the specialized court and applies it specifically, specifically to a correctional setting by creating not only a stepped in-house recovery program, but a bridge to community-based services. These have been shown to successfully reduce the cycle of recidivism and improve outcomes for individuals. We strongly support this bill and, uh, and, and I look forward to any questions you may have. Thank you.

  43. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:38:36

      Thank you. That concludes our public comment while we return to the committee for discussion or action. Representative Hall.

  44. Rep. Katy Hall2:38:47

      Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is there an amendment or substitute or anything? We Have a first substitute that We need to All right. I move Substitute one. That's an order. Would you like to speak to it? Um, I trust that the sponsor knows that sub one is the one he wants.

  45. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:39:03

      Okay. Any discussion of the motion Representative Shepherd to the motion to substitute? No, it's still on over here. Okay. I got it. Uh, Representative Clancy, I'll waive. Thank you.

  46. Rep. Tyler Clancy2:39:17

      That's what I spoke to in the presentation. That's correct.

  47. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:39:20

      Katie Hall, I'm sorry. Representative Hall.

  48. Rep. Katy Hall2:39:22

      I'll waive on that. Okay.

  49. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:39:24

      I'll go ahead and place the motion. I'll, uh, in favor of adopting the first substitute to hospital 2 0 5 ci aye. Aye. Aye. Any? He's still there. That's so nice. Uh, it is. Any opposed say nay. All right. It's adopted. Thank you. Representative Hall, do you wanna do again? Sure.

  50. Rep. Katy Hall2:39:43

      I move that we favorably recommend HB 2 0 5 first substitute substance use intervention amendments with a favorable recommendation In order. Would you like to speak to it? Um, I'll speak to it at the end.

  51. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:39:58

      Okay. Any discussion of the motion Representative Shepherd?

  52. Rep. Lisa Shepherd2:40:02

      Thank you, Mr. Chair. I spent a day last year with Sergeant McKenzie down near the area where the gentleman spoke, um, down sort of by Jordan Park. Park, yeah. By the Fair Park. I just didn't wanna say it out loud. Anyway, um, I checked with, with a sergeant last month, and I just wanted to hear the status on what was happening with the cleanup efforts there. Uh, and I just wanted you to know what I saw, uh, what I saw back then where dealers were back on the street with all the efforts that we're making. And our drills are crowded. They're getting back on the street. I thought I understood before that experience. I thought I understood the need for this bill, but after that experience, I really understand the need for this bill. I'm so thankful for our sponsor and all the work that he does in this area. And I'm really especially glad to see the amendments regarding the syringe exchange program prohibiting the distribution of the drug paraphernalia and the exchange of the syringes in public parks. I think that's very, very important to do, especially after what I saw. I like that it authorizes the courts to enter an off limits order. I think that was a great addition to put in this bill. I'm, I couldn't be in any more support than I am. Thank you so much.

  53. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:41:16

      Thank you. Representative, Representative Ballard to the motion.

  54. Rep. Melissa G. Ballard2:41:20

      Yes, I'm supportive of the motion and, and I wanna commend the, the sponsor, but I also wanna commend our Salt Lake police chief who had to step out, but that came to testify. Um, a perfect example of how this accountability, uh, is, is really, uh, evident is Victory Road. When our, uh, police chief read was, um, first brought in, uh, I talked to him about Victory Road. And I have to say that before he was in, uh, coming up to the Capitol, I was on speed dial with the cleanup crew all the time, um, every, every month of the year. And they were very responsive. They came to to appreciate me giving them a heads up when the, um, the camps and the carts and the bags and, and tarps were all building up again. But I, I have to say that through this kind of policy of this kind of, um, it's not acceptable to just be wherever you wanna be in, in public space. Um, it is, uh, a delight to drive up Victory Road to have it cleaned up. In fact, this morning on my way up, there were two police cars pulled to the side and a truck with the trailer in the back with more garbage. And I just want to say I appreciate it very much because I too lived in another city. I lived in Portland, um, for three years. And, uh, the quote unquote, compassion just led to tents and syringes. And, um, it makes it very difficult for anyone to live there, let alone take your children. So I, I really appreciate this and look forward to the efficacy of this legislation.

  55. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:43:02

      Thank you, representative, uh, to the sponsor. Would you like to sum

  56. Rep. Tyler Clancy2:43:07

      I appreciate the consideration from the committee, Mr. Chair. And all I would say too, I just wanted to respond that, um, the pieces that were highlighted about the importance of distributing, uh, naloxone at the parks, cleaning up litter at the parks, uh, all of those things can still be done. Outreach, connection to treatment. All we're saying is that under Utah law as exists today, public parks are a drug free zone. It's also been a priority of Mayor Mendenhall and the state to make our public spaces drug free. So why would it make sense that we would distribute, uh, supplies to individuals who are in active drug use to the very places that we're investing millions of dollars in trying to ab abate that, that, that piece. So we're not go, the reason I cited San Francisco, Mr. Chair, is we're actually not going as far as San Francisco did. We're actually building a partnership piece here to say that if there's a recovery fair, if there's a needle drop off or things like that, that a county health department or different things wanna do, it's totally appropriate as long as there's that permission. But we have to be working in tandem. We have to be working together. And that's what I think you're seeing with this bill. The final piece too, I think it, um, with all the efforts, particularly that this committee has done in curbing fentanyl, um, and these different things like this, um, it wouldn't make sense that we would be distributing pipes and tinfoil for people to smoke fentanyl out of it. It seems counterintuitive. And so I, I think we can, we can walk and chew gum. We can support these efforts while being intentional about it. Um, and there's, there's a number of harm reduction providers that don't do any delivery at all because they want to create that environment where they're connecting people to services and different things like that. So this policy is actually supported as well. If you look at another bipartisan piece, president Obama's, uh, former drug czar, Dr. Keith Humphreys of Stanford University supports these types of common sense policies as well. So this is something I think we can find common ground on and make our, make our cities, uh, safe again and make sure that we're, we're doing our best and working together as partners. So thank you for the time and appreciate, uh, hearing the, uh, Mr. Chair. You took all the time to listen to public comment. I'm not itching to, to run barefoot in Liberty Park yet. Mm-hmm. But I'm excited. It's better optimistic here.

  57. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:45:27

      Um, would you like to sum Representative Hall?

  58. Rep. Katy Hall2:45:29

      Yes. I just wanna thank, um, the sponsor of the bill for working so hard on this and he's making so many big strides in this bill. I, I kind of agree with the last commenter online, though. I don't think it goes far enough. I, I really don't. I, I support it, but I think there is more that we can do and maybe that's comes later. Um, I feel that some of what we've done in the name of harm reduction hasn't actually reduced harm. I think you can say it's maybe reduced some disease spreading potentially. But I think, I think we really need to take a look at some of the harm reduction things that we've done and really analyze if they've actually reduced harms for this population. Um, I agree with some of the other commenters as well, that accountability is compassion, right? This, this is a compassionate thing to, to hold people accountable. Um, I wish I, I, I don't think we've ever heard from someone in this population who got out of it that said, man, I wish I was in there for a little while longer. I wish I stayed that way for a little while longer. I don't think we've ever heard that. Um, so I commend the sponsor again for this. And I think it's, it's great and I'm excited to see it get into play. 'cause I too have done those ride alongs to those parks and I would not want my children or grandchildren playing there. So, thank you.

  59. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:46:49

      Thank you representative. I'll go ahead and place the motion.

  60. Chair Wilcox (presiding)2:46:52

      All those in favor of adopting first substitute hospital 2 0 5. Say aye. Aye. Okay. Any opposed? All right. It's done. Thank you, Representative Clancy. Thank you. Okay. Um, I need the rest of the committee up here at the ES soon as we're done. But before that, any one final motion? Ajour adjourn. Oh, everyone makes the motion to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye. A I think Matt's a post. I'm not sure. No, I'm, no, no, no. Okay. We are ajour. Alright. Trevor. Trevor, can you guys come here for just for a sec? Hey, Stanford. Stanford, come here. Go ahead. Okay. Okay.

• Feb 11, 2026 House floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (6 turns)

  1. Unknown speaker37:33

     First substitute House Bill 2 0 5 Substance use intervention amendments by Representative Clancy. This bill was heard in law enforcement and criminal justice with the vote 10 0 1

  2. Speaker (presiding)37:44

     Representative Clancy.

  3. Rep. Tyler Clancy37:46

     Thank you Mr. Speaker. Uh, colleagues, I think everyone in this body has either had a loved one or someone close to us that's been afflicted by the plague of drug addiction in our communities. And that's what this bill is about. Finding common sense solutions to a problem that all of us are all too familiar with. House Bill 2 0 5 does a couple of things to align all of our perspectives and align all of our efforts to combat addiction and the crime and disorder in our, in our cities. So the first thing that House Bill 2 0 5 does is it establishes best practices for jail recovery pods. This is making sure that when people are in jail, even if the offense is not about narcotics, but they're addicted to drugs, they can begin that programming and begin that healing process. The second piece is it establishes that Justice courts can be creative in problem solving courts similar to drug court, mental health court or veterans court. But recognizing that many of these repeat offenders don't hit the district court level and they may never get those tools. So this allows, this creates a, a step court that allows Justice court judges to be creative and have those tools that we know work at the drug court level. On the misdemeanor justice court piece, it also restricts syringe exchange programs and harm reduction programs in general. Right now, this body has invested millions of dollars in making sure that we are keeping our public spaces safe. So places like homeless shelters, public parks, transit. So why would it make sense that in code we have locations that are drug-free zones, but we're facilitating needle exchange and bringing individuals and active drug use to those areas where we're investing significant amount of money to keep it safe and clear from drugs. I talk to folks that are share very different political opinions than myself on many of the core issues that would define me as a conservative. But even in Salt Lake City, I hear from dads who say, I can't go to the park anymore because there's so many needles on the ground that I don't feel safe throwing the ball with my son. We have got to stop that. It also makes sure that harm reduction is about syringe exchange, clean needles, uh, uh, being exchanged for dirty needles. This bill makes it explicitly clear that harm reduction is not giving out crack pipes, tin foils, tourniquets or cookers to smoke meth and do different things like that that once again are driving the disorder in our downtown communities. Finally, this bill establishes a process to ban drug dealers from our parks and other public spaces using a tool called, called a Stay out of Drug Area zone. This allows cities and municipalities to stop the repeat drug offenders from destroying our parks and our public, uh, public spaces that are built for families. So Mr. Speaker, when Chief Brian Red of the Salt Lake City Police Department, uh, became the police chief, he called me about a week later, the police department had done a long-term investigation on a fentanyl dealer that was dealing in one of a, a very well-known park in Salt Lake City. That drug dealer got arrested, he was bailed out within the same day and within that same day, he was back at the park selling fentanyl. That is inappropriate and that is unacceptable. So House Bill 2 0 5 gives us more tools on the city, county, and state level to stop the chaos, stop the disorder, and make sure our public safe public spaces are for families. Again. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I'm happy to take any questions.

  4. Speaker (presiding)41:31

     Thank you, Representative Clancy discussion to the bill. Seeing none. Back to Representative Clancy for summation.

  5. Rep. Tyler Clancy41:38

     I waive. Thank you. Mr. Speaker summation has been waived.

  6. Speaker (presiding)41:40

     Voting will now be open on first seeing all present, having voted voting is now closed. First substitute HB 2 0 5 passed this body with 71 yes votes, uh, one no vote will be sent to the Senate for its consideration. Madam Reading Clerk

• Feb 26, 2026 Senate Judiciary, Law Enforcement, and Criminal Justice Committee▶ Watch
  Transcript (55 turns)

  1. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:23:05

     Yes, sir. Representative, if it's okay, Mr. Chair, I'd like, uh, uh, deputy Chief Manza and, uh, Glen Mills from the Salt Lake City Police Department to join for my presentation, if that's appropriate.

  2. Committee chair (presiding)1:23:16

     It would be, yeah, that's your, your, your call. So, perfect. Go, go ahead.

  3. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:23:21

     Um, so Mr. Chair and committee, this is, uh, HB 2 0 5 that's in front of you. Today is a culmination of, uh, a collaborative project, uh, been called a couple of different names, but over the last year we worked on a initiative on downtown safety in Salt Lake. But as we, uh, worked on it, there's many opportunities here that we think we can enhance public safety across the state. So I'll go through these. Um, in particular, first is just a level set, uh, recognizing that, uh, we, we have a, a crisis on our hands of, of, uh, drug crisis. Um, if you look at the top graph there, those are utah's numbers since 2014. And you can see that it remains relatively constant. Uh, this year we saw our numbers go down a little bit, but if you look at the bottom graph, when we contextualize when people call the opioid crisis, if you look at the graphs starting in 2002 and then ending in two 2022, you can see the dramatic change in that piece. And so what HB 2 0 5 is seeking to do is to make sure that we're all rowing in the same direction. So the first piece is regulating, putting some guardrails and common sense regulation on our harm reduction programs. So, harm reduction is, uh, the needle exchange program, which passed this body in 2016. Um, there are, there are many providers in the space, and, and, uh, you'll hear there is, there is a support, as you can see this past the house with bipartisan support, um, for this. But there's also people who will, who will share their opposition today. But I wanna just share with you what HB 2 0 5 does. It ensures that the needle exchange program is a needle exchange program that we're not giving out glass pipes or tinfoil or straws to smoke drugs out of. So the needle exchange program, when it was passed in 2016, that was the intent of the legislature to reduce hepatitis c aids and other bloodborne illnesses. And we're ensuring that piece there. We're also making sure that the, the parks are, are, which are explicitly drug free zones in Utah law, are not appropriate places to do needle exchange, thereby bringing individuals and active drug use to the parks. The last piece that I think people have the most, uh, some providers that you'll hear from today that have the most heartburn about is making sure that if you're gonna do needle exchange on public property, then you have to have the permission from the government entity in which you are doing that on. Um, and so, uh, our Salt Lake City Police Department has, uh, been working on enhancing safety in public spaces. And so, uh, we believe that this makes sure we're all rowing in the same direction. The next piece is, is a tool called a stay out of drug area or a soda. Um, on the left side of your screen here, these are pictures from drug bus at Salt Lake City Parks, and you can see kind of the intensity of what, uh, is going on. Uh, when Chief Red, who couldn't be here today, um, but his two deputies who are amazing and, and, and great leaders are here to speak to it. Um, the first week that he took over as the police chief of Salt Lake City, he called me and he told me about a long-term investigation that their narcotics unit had been working on at the, I believe it was at Liberty Park. It was an individual that was dealing fentanyl to homeless individuals at Liberty Park. They arrested him after a long-term investigation. He bailed out the next day, and he was back out at the park doing the same thing the next day, where thereby starting from square one. So in domestic violence cases, judges are allowed to grant a area restriction, essentially saying, because even though you're not guilty, we are making sure that you cool off from going to the, the victim's, uh, home where they work or, you know, wherever else is appropriate. This is allowing judges another tool in the toolkit to help, uh, ensure public order in our public spaces. So this would allow the city attorney's office to identify high impact drug areas in their city. And so they could request that a judge would give one of these state out of drug area orders. So, once again, not changing the bail laws, not changing the penalties on, on narcotics distribution, but rather saying, if you're arrested for distributing, distributing fentanyl in Liberty Park, even if you're granted bail before trial, we wanna make sure that you don't go back to Liberty Park to do the same thing. Um, once again, I want to emphasize I have collaborated and worked really, really hard to make this a bipartisan legislation, this, uh, stay out of drug area. They've adopted it even in progressive cities like Seattle. So this is not a draconian measure. Um, the step courts are another puzzle piece here that can help us with the substance use, uh, challenge in our communities. Um, I'll be very simple as possible because I don't need to describe to this committee in particular the significance and the importance of drug court. But drug court only exists at the district court level. A step court would allow a justice court with the approval of the administrative office of the courts to establish a specialty court based on swift certain and fair consequences at the justice court level. So when you talk about some of our high utilizers in the criminal justice system, they are, uh, disproportionately at the justice court level many times. So this allows judges more tools to solve the problem without enhancing penalties. If you look at the bottom, this is from, uh, right on crime, Hawaii's Hope Probation, uh, also known as the Hope Court. Um, that has been, it's been a peer reviewed, uh, uh, study for many years now. They see significant, um, reduction in re-offending when judges have the tools that they need at the Justice Court level. The final piece is establishing jail recovery pods. So in this committee and in many committees before the debate has been had, should individuals who are driven to crime by addiction to drugs end up in the criminal justice system or public health, I'm not having that debate here today, but rather what I'm saying is that they do end up in jail. And so why would we wait for the recovery process to start once they get out of jail or out of sentence. This, uh, sets some standards that county Sheriffs County jails can work with the local, uh, substance abuse and mental health authority to establish jail recovery pods in their county in every state. This isn't a mandate, but it's rather setting some programmatic, uh, uh, puzzle pieces in place so that if a sheriff wants to do this, then we, we are gonna go forward and make sure that we, we've got that. Um, there's been success in this. You may have seen a jelly roll. Uh, a great advocate for recovery visited, uh, Joe Recovery Pod in, in Pennsylvania just this last year. So finally, I just want to give a minute to Mr. Uh, Glen Mills, uh, uh, are you the p uh, P Chief of Staff, chief of Staff for Chief Brian Red and Deputy Chief, uh, Manza to just end cap our presentation here. Glenn, who You may have seen him on tv, Doesn't look familiar. You were even on with me several times. Welcome Mr. Mills.

  4. Glen Mills, Chief of Staff, Salt Lake City Police Department1:30:20

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, members of the committee appreciate this opportunity to be here with you this morning and really the important work that you all engage in as well. So, thank you. Uh, we have a great interest in this bill. It sounds weird for me to say this, but our parks should be a safe space for families, for children, not for criminal activity. We are determined in Utah's Capital City to change that and to hold those who are using our parks for illegal, uh, drug distribution, drug use, and other criminal activity accountable. And we see the good work of the sponsor here in this bill as a important vehicle for us to be able to do that. Deputy Chief Manza is going to now give us a, a better idea of what we are seeing on the front lines when it comes to this situation.

  5. Bill Manzanares, Deputy Chief, Salt Lake City Police Department1:31:13

     Thank you, uh, Mr. Chair and committee. We appreciate, uh, what you do. Uh, my name is Bill Manza, uh, deputy Chief of the Salt Lake City Police Department. Uh, we really, uh, are supportive of this bill. We see it as, as, uh, additional tools to help us really with our, our open air drug market that we are seeing and combating in Salt Lake City. In our, in our public areas and parks, we are currently, uh, utilizing a lot of resources and time with our, within our department and our officers to combat that open air drug market. Uh, these tools would, would really give us additional avenues to, to help to keep those, those parks clear. What we see is, is upticks in, you know, pioneer Park, where there will be, you know, heavy use, heavy, uh, drug dealing. We combat it. We, we get in and, and enforce, uh, hold people accountable. And then it moves, it moves to Liberty Park, it moves to Cottonwood Park, it moves to the other open, uh, uh, spaces within the city. And this, uh, we're hopeful that this, this bill, if passed, would really, again, give us that, uh, additional tools to help keep and maintain those parks and keep 'em safe, as Glen mentioned, so that our, our, uh, families can utilize those parks and really, uh, to assist the, the homeless people because the homeless people are, are being victimized again in these parks, uh, due to these, uh, open air drug markets that are occurring in and around them. Thank you.

  6. Committee chair (presiding)1:32:38

     Thank you. Uh, does that conclude your presentation? Yes,

  7. Bill Manzanares, Deputy Chief, Salt Lake City Police Department1:32:42speaker not certain

     Sir. Mr. Chair, Thank you very much.

  8. Committee chair (presiding)1:32:44

     Um, can I see, by a show of hands who'd like to testify for or against this bill? Oh boy. Some questions first. Alright, we got some questions first. Don't leave. Don't leave. Alright. So, Senator Musselman,

  9. Sen. John Musselman1:32:55

     Um, so I'm assuming, and maybe I shouldn't, but based on some RFA requests, um, or I shouldn't say RA, some requests for funding as it pertains to the CCCs, just explain how that's gonna play into this as it pertains, pertains to the high offender uses and the, and to, uh, you know, as far as treatment on addiction and mental illness. Uh, I think that that's important for the committee to know and make sure I understand. Uh, uh, I, I'm just barely putting two and two together that maybe that these tie together. And if you could explain that. Yes,

  10. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:33:28

      Sir. Yeah. So, uh, I don't know if I could, would it, it show to my screen again? Is that possible? Sure. Should I just replug it back in? So this is what you're hitting on, uh, what Senator Musselman is hitting on is, uh, the high, high utilizers in the criminal justice system. How can we, how can we make an impact both for public safety, but as Deputy Chief Manza said, for them, for their life? Because we know that they're living a very high risk lifestyle. So particularly with this provision of the bill and the step courts right now, these individuals, we know that drug court works, but if they're not ending up in, uh, Juab, uh, district court, then those tools are not on the table for judges. So I'll, I'll share a, a conversation I had with Judge Lew from the Salt Lake City Justice Court. She's, uh, she shared with me that someone might be coming in for a trespassing in front of her. Now they might have, they might have 25 other pending charges in different jurisdictions, in different justice courts. And so she, she would be, she wants to help. So if there's, uh, capacity available at a, uh, at a, you know, halfway home or whatever it might be, where it would be appropriate to send someone in, in drug court or a specialty court. But right now her, she can only see that one charge that's in front of her. And so, uh, there's a, as you mentioned Senator, there's a number of different efforts that are seeking to say the, ultimately by an individual who's committing a high volume of offenses, by them getting on the right track of recovery, it's giving the community relief and then, but it's also saving their life and getting them on a better track. So, So, so just for the purposes of how, how I know this committee thinks and the concerns they may might have for jail capacity and, and overwhelming that gel capacity. That's what I'm wanting. Clarification. Yeah. So there's, there's, there's, there's been, uh, appropriations centered around expanding the CCCs for these high U utilizers so that we're not pushing them into prison.

  11. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:35:22

      Yes, sir. That's what I want to clarify. Is that right? Yes, sir. Sorry about that. Okay, fair enough.

  12. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:35:25

      Um, in addition to that, for those that are in need of treatment, we also have funding that's in place. Instead, ofit them again into the jail system or the prison. We'd have places to send them for treatment. So we're not overwhelming the jail system with this, with this type of action.

  13. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:35:38

      'cause this is, this is, this is pretty aggressive, right? Yes, Sir. Yeah. And I, I like it, but it, it's aggressive. And does the system have the capacity to do it? That's the question.

  14. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:35:47

      Yes, sir. And thi this bill is less about capacity. It's more about the gears in the system to send them to the appropriate capacity rather than having the capacity over here. But you can only get to that capacity if you commit some high level offense. We wanna make sure that people can get the help they need before it's too late and they're on the path to incarceration. So.

  15. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:36:07

      So one last question. Um, you know, just of course, traditionally handle that lower level offenses. Do they do, do, do the courts themselves? I'm thinking, I'm thinking the end. Do the courts themselves have the capacity to be able to, if we, if we go to this route, which I, I, I'm going to vote for it. Do we, do we have the capacity to process it? So that was The concern from, uh, Mr. Drexel from the administrative office of the courts.

  16. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:36:29

      We've structured it in this substitute where we are, uh, allowing, uh, uh, justice courts who are wanting to lead out on this. So, for example, if, if, if you were the judge and I was your staff member, those are the kinds of conversations to say, can we handle this? If so, how many? And so we're not telling them, you will do this for every single person who comes in. Essentially, we're setting up the standard to say, we believe this is an appropriate tool. If you and your team can figure out a way to, to do this, uh, appropriately and efficiently, we're gonna support you in that. And so that, I think that's a perfect question. Okay. Thank you.

  17. Unknown speaker1:37:04speaker not certain

      Thank you, chair. You know, If you tell Senator Musselman, he's perfect, we have to live with him the, for the rest of the session.

  18. Committee chair (presiding)1:37:15

      So that's, that's not encouraged in this committee. I With withdrawn, sir.

  19. Committee chair (presiding)1:37:20

      Um, alright, let's try this again. Um, I, I'm gonna ask a different question. So, um, how many of you're here to testify against the bill? All of you. Okay. All right. Um, and how many are, are you are here to testify in favor? The bill? So we have, okay. Half. You're half and half. All right. Um, those of you that are half and half or against the bill, please stand up. I want everyone to see, uh, I want everyone to see you. Okay. So I want everybody, well, I've got two here. I've got everyone on the committee to know those. Okay. 'cause I don't know that we're gonna be able to hear from all of you. So if there's a spokesman that can kind of tell us what the concerns are for this group, that would be most helpful. Uh, but let's start with that. If there's a spokesman for that group that stood up, let's, let's come up

  20. Committee chair (presiding)1:38:12

      and tell us who you are.

  21. Mindy Vincent, Executive Director, Utah Harm Reduction Coalition1:38:14

      Hello. I will sign in after. My name is Mindy Vincent. I'm the founder and executive director of the Utah Harm Reduction Coalition. I'm also the person who did start the first legal syringe exchange in the state of Utah. My organization is the largest provider in the state. The one thing is those step courts. Where did Representative Clancy go? I'm, he's here a proud graduate of drug court. I, next month I'll celebrate 19 years in recovery. And it's thanks to drug court. So I strongly support the step courts part of it, as well as the recovery pods in the jail. Um, the part that is missing for us is that passing this bill as it is, will eliminate our ability to serve the vast majority of the homeless population, which we currently serve. We have agreements with the police and have for a decade around being in parks. And we don't go in parks. The issue is not, in my opinion, it's not about regulating so much where syringe exchanges can be in this bill, in this way, it's, we need to regulate syringe exchanges, period. We have providers who are not all providing the same level of services to people. In my opinion, it's incredibly important to ensure that we're providing information about substance misuse treatment, getting people HIV and Hepatitis C testing, distributing Narcan and Naloxone, and providing all these other resources that can help people to get out of this. And that is not going to be fixed by this bill because we have some providers who are just not, they're not abiding by the rules of exchange. They're not even always abiding by the law. And there is no way to hold those people accountable. And there has to be, I'm a licensed treatment provider. If I'm not doing treatment to the quality of care that DHHS requires, I will lose my license. Not just as a treatment provider, but as a licensed clinical social worker. All syringe exchanges need to be held to the same standard. And we have some rogue organizations that are not even licensed to be out doing syringe exchange, that are doing things that are inappropriate and absolutely against the very commitments and promises and agreements that I have made with the Salt Lake City Police and with other police organizations, community stakeholders and community members. And then when we complain about it and say that, you know, 'cause obviously my organization is usually the one that gets, you know, the call that like, hey, they're in the parks. But it's, it's not us. It's other organizations and they need to be held accountable for it. And that is only gonna happen through the regulation of syringe exchange.

  22. Unknown committee member1:40:42speaker not certain

      Okay. So let me ask you a couple questions. So first of all, thank you for being here and being articulate and well spoken. And thank you for graduating from drug court and turning around your life. I, I can tell you're doing well, um, because you're very professional and well spoken. So thank you for all of that. Um, what would you like, I mean, what specifically in the bill is causing these problems that you're testifying to the all Public places part?

  23. Mindy Vincent, Executive Director, Utah Harm Reduction Coalition1:41:09

      Okay. So originally this bill said parks, which I'm all in favor of. We, I, the most important job in my life is being a mother. And I care very much about my community, what it looks like, and I care very much what children are exposed to. And I do not allow my staff to go in parks except for to do cleanup, because we always try to mitigate some of the damages done by the population. Sure. We serve. And we'll still go in and do that. But we've had agreements for quite some time to not go in the parks.

  24. Unknown committee member1:41:36speaker not certain

      Okay. So, And so there's places that, but banishing all public places. Okay. So what, so for those of us that don't work in this space like you do, yeah. Help us understand. So you've got parks. Mm-hmm. What are the other all public places that, what, what spaces are we talking about besides parks?

  25. Mindy Vincent, Executive Director, Utah Harm Reduction Coalition1:41:52

      So currently we will park, I prefer it to be at least a hundred yards away from any place that's like a park or, well, we don't go near schools or anything, but it's parks that are primarily the issue. Okay. Right. So we'll go into, do cleanup in the park, let people know, Hey, we're down the road doing exchange. They come to our ambulance. That way we can do HIV and Hep C testing from there and all the other resources.

  26. Unknown committee member1:42:14speaker not certain

      Let me try again. You've got parks. Yeah. Which you're okay with. You've got all public places. So what are the other public places? Everywhere In public? Yes.

  27. Mackenzie Bray, Executive Director, Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project1:42:22

      Yes. So I'm also, um, a syringe exchange.

  28. Committee chair (presiding)1:42:25

      You gotta tell us your name. Oh

  29. Mackenzie Bray, Executive Director, Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project1:42:26

      Yeah, sorry. Um, Mackenzie Bray. I'm the Executive director of Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project. Okay. So, with us two, we go out, we have a, I kind of joke for like the Uber Eats of syringe exchange, we can go upon request and our thing, we would meet sometimes people on, like, if we're on the, the way the bill is written, if we're on the sidewalk outside of their house mm-hmm. Where that is technically public, public land, that is one where we're not sure if we need written permission from Department of Transportation is this, you know, Utah Health Department. Um, just some of that, like anything if it's a sidewalk, anything that is not private property. Okay. Where we're like briefly meeting people. Okay. Yeah. That's our issue as well. If we're parked on the side of the road somewhere in a high traffic area that is known to have folks Sure. That were serving there. We are there on the road or like in a parking lot somewhere, but that's not necessarily private property. So it banish us basically from almost all street outreach. Alright.

  30. Unknown committee member1:43:17speaker not certain

      My, my next and maybe last question is, besides the parks versus all public places, is there any other specific issues you have with a bill or things you'd like to see changed?

  31. Mindy Vincent, Executive Director, Utah Harm Reduction Coalition1:43:28speaker not certain

      Yes, I can add in. Yeah. Um, we have concerns with Salt Lake, uh, Mackenzie, again, with Salt Lake Harm Reduction project.

  32. Mackenzie Bray, Executive Director, Salt Lake Harm Reduction Project1:43:33

      Our concern is in this about the ban on pipes and safer, safer smoking materials. When syringe exchange was written in 2016, people were primarily injecting. We've seen the opioid and overdose crisis change in the last 10 years. People now, because of additives, we're seeing like xylazine, um, Xylazine causes like, pretty nasty wounds, not at the injection site. So our clients now, I've had two clients. And how is Xylazine consumed? Um, so people can, they can inject it, they can smoke it. Um, it's one where it's hard to know when it's an unknown additive. Um, or it's, we, people don't know. Basically people aren't seeking it out. It's just been added to the drug supply. So when people are right now, they're injecting it. And that's what causes a lot of these big wounds, causes abscesses. Um, I've had two clients die this year from endocarditis. Um, so that is from injecting. So nationwide, we're seeing people want to move away from injecting because of these elevated risks and want to move to safe, um, to safer smoking supplies for, to prevent those abscesses to prevent damage to veins. And because we find that it's, um, easier to link people to care into treatment, there's some evidence that shows too with pipes being lower risk of overdose. Um, and again, HIV Hep C and pipes would also mean fewer syringes in public. So, uh, less threat to law enforcement, less of a danger to the community, um, if we're able to distribute safer smoking supplies in addition

  33. Committee chair (presiding)1:44:54

      To pipes. Alright. Thank you both very much. Yes.

  34. Committee chair (presiding)1:44:56

      And, um, I think some people came in after I asked, so all of you that agree with these two women who just testified, who did a great job of are explaining their position, would you all stand so that, um, everyone on the committee can see who's in support of that? So what, I'm gonna Thank you. Thank you. Alright. So what I'm gonna say is we don't need all of you to come up and tell us the same thing that we've already heard, um, and for the purpose of time. So thank you. I'd now like to get, since we've had these two, if there's two people in favor of the bill, if they'd come forward, if you two could ate those. Thank you committee. Thank you. Thank you. And whoever sits down first, just tell us your name and start testifying. You can sign in when you're done, and then you, sir, on the, on my right. You can sign in now. Okay. Go ahead.

  35. Felix Espinoza, Utah for Rational Sex Offense Laws1:45:48

      Excuse me. Yes. Um, chair member of the committee. My name is Felix Espinoza and I'm here on behalf of Utah for rational sex offense laws. In support of HB 2 0 5, we appreciate Representative Clancy and Senator Bro's commitment to expanding community-based substance use treatment. We do, however, ask the committee to address one significant gap, uh, the categorical exclusion of individuals with pending sex offense charges from the step program under section 78, a dash seven dash 2014 applied to Utah's registry conservative investments from sex offense treatment program providers within Utah suggest that between 1,520 500 people have co-occurring substance use disorders and would benefit from exactly the kind of intervention this bill creates. Yet they are explicitly barred from it. A blanket exclusion regardless of offense severity or the role substance played undermines the bill's own goals. We are not asking for unrestricted access, we are asking for judicial discretion, the ability for a court to evaluate each case individually, consider, consider validated risk assessments and require integrated treatment where appropriate. We urge the committee to amend the bill to allow tiered eligibility and case by case judicial review. Thank you.

  36. Jakob Dupuis, Policy Manager, Cicero Institute1:47:05

      Thank you. Uh, good morning chair members of the committee. My name is Jacob Dupuy. I'm here on behalf of Cicero Action testifying in favor of HB 2 0 5. Uh, normally I'd come to you with some facts and figures, but I wanna tell a couple quick stories. In Austin, Texas, where I used to live, there was an exchange program located next to an element, an elementary school. Um, you know, much like the entities here today, they were, you know, doing what they thought was good work. Um, but this resulted in, you know, perhaps counterintuitively in accumulation of new needles surrounding the area. And it resulted in an elementary aged child being stuck with a needle. Um, had this exchange been in a different location, perhaps further away from the school, the likelihood of this happening would've been much lower. Um, uh, our public parks do not carry the same risk. Uh, prohibiting needle exchanges and other paraphernalia from operating public parks is necessary to protect our right to access safely, uh, our green spaces. The other part that I wanna speak to is the off limits orders. Um, I participated in the point in time count, uh, earlier this year, and I met a man, I'll call him John. He was sleeping in an abandoned rv. You know, I spoke to him for a while about his life, how he fell into homelessness. Uh, you know, he became addicted to methamphetamines and he seemed to have a good head on his soldier, his, uh, shoulders and was looking to get out. And one thing he said to me stuck out to me, he said he has to, he'd gotten clean in the past by quote, getting away from the people who use and deal. I know that if I continue to live around it, I'll keep using. And he gesture to the other group of RVs that he was parked near. Uh, what this, you know, Just wrap it up. Yeah. Uh, you know, these stay away orders will allow people to break the criminogenic ties that tie them to dealers and continued using and, and we'll assist in their recovery. Thank you. Committee. I thank you.

  37. Committee chair (presiding)1:48:38

      Thank you very much. All right. Now, um, we've heard about the all public places. We've heard about the pipes. We've heard about people facing sex offense charges, judicial discretion to your eligibility. We've heard about the syringes by elementary schools. Is there anyone that has something different to tell us? I don't need to hear the same thing. Okay. Please come forward. Yeah. I don't need them all. We, we've had them stand up twice. One, Um, Tell us your name. I did think it was important that we have people that are, uh, part of the population. This bill Yeah. Um, is referring to come up and speak. Um, but they're shy. Okay. And That's fine. Um, I do, I think we understand their, where They're at. Um,

  38. Nomad Alliance representative (Kseniya Kniazeva, President, Nomad Alliance)1:49:19

      my name is Kasina. I'm with the Nomad Alliance, a small nonprofit involving You give your first and last name, Kya kva. Okay. And, um, we are partners with UHRC. Um, I want to mention one quick story, uh, about the value of what they do. Um, uh, we do nomad supply drives where we provide clothing, food, haircuts, et cetera, services to the people. Um, we were at Matson Park, UHRC was there, but they were not doing syringe exchange. They were just there with,

  39. Committee chair (presiding)1:49:46

      And can you tell us just Narcan, so everybody knows Narcan. Who? UHRC

  40. Kseniya Kniazeva, President, Nomad Alliance1:49:49

      Is? Um, Utah Harm Reduction Coalition. Okay. So, um, you may have seen Mindy and, um, Stephanie and Ellie, um, uh, they're the ones that operate them. Ambulance. Okay. I just didn't know the acronym, so Thank you. I apologize. Um, and, uh, um, we were in the middle of the event. Um, they were just there doing, providing Narcan, um, HIV and hepatitis testing and referrals to, um, sobriety programs. And, uh, a woman had an overdose, um, on the edge of the park. She wasn't at the event. Um, and, uh, we didn't realize what was going on. Um, but one of our nomads, one of our team members, um, he went directly to UUHR C3 times for more Narcan. Um, this woman required four doses of Narcan, um, and we had called nine one one. We were on the phone. She required CPR for four minutes. Um, and she was turning blue and ashen, um, had UHRC not been there with their continual supply of Narcan that is readily available where someone knew where to go to route to get that medicine, that woman would've expired. Um, and I, that's all I had to say. Um, they do incredible work. It's not just syringe exchange. They provide a lot of benefits to the people we serve. Thank You. Thank you.

  41. Committee chair (presiding)1:51:02

      And ma'am, in the wheelchair, I, I, I want to apologize for being insensitive because I asked people to stand. Did, were you with them? Were you in agreement with them?

  42. Unknown speaker1:51:13speaker not certain

      Uh, I, I don't Know. Okay.

  43. Committee chair (presiding)1:51:15

      Okay. I just, I apologize because I shouldn't be asking people. Your wheelchair was blocked from my, my view, so I didn't realize it until you left. So I did not mean to be insensitive. So, and I mean that sincerely. So for 3 0 3, thank you. 3 0 3. Okay. All right. Well, I'm gonna stop asking people to stand. So, um, really dumb with me. Okay. Uh, be be. Okay. La last thing. Is there anyone else that feels compelled to testify in the bill before I close public hearing? Okay. And please don't repeat what we've already heard. I'll

  44. Katie Stahl, Utah Director, Right on Crime1:51:51

      Be very brief. Thank. Thank you. I'm Katie Stall. I'm the Utah Director for Right On Crime. And just wanted to offer our support of this bill. I feel like a lot of careful and thoughtful compromises have been made here. And, um, we're supportive. Alright. And I want to tell people from the population that didn't, uh, that, that, that are here with concerns about the bill. We see you, we hear you. We appreciate you being here. Um, and thank you for trying to make efforts to improve your lives. We all want that. We all want you to be successful. So thank you very much for being here. Okay.

  45. Committee chair (presiding)1:52:23

      Uh, Representative Clancy,

  46. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:52:26

      May I share one Thing? Yes. I Have specifically asked people and support. We had, we had so much support in the House committee. I specifically asked People not to come. Thank you. Thank you for that reason. Thank you.

  47. Committee chair (presiding)1:52:38

      I believe you. Okay. Um, I would like to give you an, uh, well, let's get a motion on the floor and then I want you to respond to the public comment. Senator Musselman.

  48. Sen. Calvin R. Musselman1:52:49

      Yeah. Move. We favorably recommend, um, first substitute HB 2 0 5 sub substance use Intervention amendment.

  49. Committee chair (presiding)1:52:57

      Alright. We have a motion favorably recommend the bill. Um, uh, Representative Clancy. So we heard about all public places versus parks. We heard about pipes, we heard about people with pending sex offense charges. Um, can, can you, uh, tier eligibility, judicial discretion,

  50. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:53:14

      can you respond to those? Yes, Sir. So I want to just speak about the process that went into this bill, because as you can see with the house vote, this is a bipartisan bill. The, the, the provisions that we've adopted in in HB 2 0 5 do not go as far as what the city of San Francisco has recently done to regulate harm reduction. The city of San Francisco said no harm reduction outdoors and absolutely no pipes, tinfoil, or straws. What we're saying is that you can still actually do harm reduction on public government owned property as long as you have the, as long as you have the, uh, consent of that government entity that would want you to do syringe exchange. And I think, you know, me, Mr. Chair, I really try to speak about the issues. 'cause I don't like to do legislation about something that happened. But I can tell you that there's a reason that we're addressing this issue and that there's many syringe exchange providers who do support this bill. I'm not trying, I don't want to tee anyone up to fight each other and say, well, this group agrees, or that group agrees. But I can tell you that this bill would not have passed with all of the House Democrats and all but one of house Republicans in support of this if I had not worked this to a piece. Was That Representative Hansen? Yes. Okay. And I've talked to her about this. It wasn't about any of the issues that you mentioned. Um, so I, that's where I wanna say San Francisco has gone farther than this bill. We're, I'm really trying to find a compromise and not trying to put anyone out of business. The other thing I'd say about the smoking supplies, the Le Utah State legislature passed legislation about syringe exchange. If we want to pass a law to say that we can hand out bubble pipes and tinfoil, I think that that would be appropriate. I would say that this legislation is a clarification to say that syringe exchange does not include giving out meth pipes. I don't think that was ever part of the discussion. I know Speaker Hughes quite well, and I've talked to him about this legislation. I don't think that would ever be a appropriate there. So once again, if, if we want to have that discussion, I would, I would venture to say that's a separate discussion that the legislature has not weighed in on. This is a clarification. The the biggest piece I I would want to stress and emphasize too, is that, um, and I'm, I don't want to pit people against each other. That is a hundred percent not my intention here, but we have worked with stakeholders, we've worked with collaborators. I was aware of some of the concerns that were gonna come in today. And as, as, as I talked to members of the Senate, not the house about those changes, they said, we do not want you to adopt those changes. And so, I, I'm, I'm here very intentionally with this legislation in front of you today. I believe that by enhancing public trust with our syringe exchange providers, it'll actually be a win-win for everyone. It'll be a win for public and the public safety. It'll also be a win for providers who are doing the good work, eliminating bloodborne illnesses. But we can be really precise about what our intervention is. Um,

  51. Unknown committee member1:56:07speaker not certain

      So, so let me just ask this question. So this bill doesn't end syringe exchanges, but it would require them to happen indoors, is that correct? Uh, Or, or on private property?

  52. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:56:17

      Or On public property. If the pub public entity agreed, if they wanted to host that syringe Exchange, that would, in most cases be Salt Lake City? I would assume so. Okay. And then there's, there's also some rural, uh, I believe in price and then Moab. Okay. That I would imagine that, that, that would take place as well.

  53. Unknown committee member1:56:34speaker not certain

      Okay. Um, you've addressed the pipes. What about people with pending sex offense charges?

  54. Rep. Tyler Clancy1:56:41

      This, this bill, the short title is Substance Abuse Intervention Amendments. Um, the data on, uh, when we looked at the Arnold Ventures and Johns Hopkins research on the Swift Certain and fair model, it's, it's built for individuals who are dealing with substance abuse. So I'm not necessarily opposed to more treatment options, certainly not opposed for more treatment options for individuals with sex offenses. So I would say that's not What I heard is that people with pending sex offense charges, they don't qualify for the step program. Is this bill changing that? No, because the step program doesn't exist right now. Okay. We're just clarifying that this is a swift certain and fair model based on the research done by Johns Hopkins and, and the SEF center. Uh, and that is not part of the research group. Um, there, the only sex offense I would be aware that would even qualify for a, a class B misdemeanor would be a first time lewdness charge. Um, and, and that I would say there's, there's a multitude of different offenses that someone experiencing that most sex offenses are gonna be in district court anyway. By the Way, I was found not guilty of that. I don't appreciate you bringing that up since you're not.

  55. Committee chair (presiding)1:57:46

      Yeah. Okay. Senator Musselman, would you like to sum? All right, we have a motion before us. Um, Senator Baldry, uh, all in favor of the motion to favorably recommend is it first substitute Senate, uh, house Bill 2 0 5, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Senator Pitcher? Senator Pitcher online? Do you, would you like to vote on 2 0 5? So she may be online, but also in a court hearing. So, alright, that, that motion passes, uh, on a vote of four to zero unanimously. Thank you. Um, sorry I cut your eye. If I can still, it's five to zero. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Uh, Representative Clancy and thank you everyone, uh, who participated in that bill.

• Mar 5, 2026 Senate floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (9 turns)

  1. Sen. Brady Brammer2:10:37

     Senator Brammer. Thank you. So what this bill is about is keeping people off drugs, supporting, recovering, protecting public spaces from drug activity and disorder. Uh, there is a mercy and accountability and this provides a good balance and a good path for that. One of the things that it does is it creates what are called stay out of drug areas. They're targeted tool to restore areas where open air drug markets have taken root and they give law enforcement the ability to keep repeat offenders out of stay out of drug areas. Um, we will not allow our public spaces to be surrendered to chaos and unsafe conditions. Additionally, the second thing that it does is it uses step courts. These are courts that provide consequences that are swift, predictable and proportionate. This model promotes accountability while helping individuals stabilize and move towards recovery. And the last thing that this does is jail recovery pods. And so this allows us to create part of the drill, the jail system as a stabilizing part of our system and an on-ramp to recovery. Uh, for people who are cycling through addiction, uh, they concentrate people who want sobriety and structure into a dedicated unit with shared expectations, accountability, routine, and pro-social norms. And with that, that concludes my presentation. I'm open to any questions.

  2. Senate President (presiding)2:11:53

     Thank you. Looking for questions this evening. Not seeing a lot of questions. Vaccine. No questions. I'm going back to you. I will call the question. Thank you. Thank you. And the question is, shall under suspension of the rules shall first substitute House bill two oh five pass roll call vote.

  3. Senate clerk2:12:09

     Senator Vickers. Baldy Aye. Blu Brammer aye. Bus? Aye. Palmore a Escamilla Aye. Fillmore Aye. Grover Aye. Harper Aye. Kins Aye. Ipson Aye. Johnson Aye. Juab? Aye. Okay. Aye. Mikel. Aye. Milner. Senator Millner? Yes. Muslim men Owens Pitcher Slum Rebe Sandal Stevenson Stratton Bickers Weiler Aye. Wilson Winterton Winterton President Adams Aye.

  4. Senate President (presiding)2:13:22

     First substitute house bill 2 0 5 having received 28 yay votes. Zero nay votes, one being absent passes his body. And I think we're gonna hold this bill because we're gonna reconsider action so we're not gonna send it to a house. Now I'm gonna go to Senator McKell. Alright, Let's keep up. We're gonna do another motion. Mr. President, I move that the following bills be lifted from rules and placed at the bottom of the second reading calendar in the following order. House bill 2 61 second substitute HCR nine second substitute house bill 49 sub two HB 1 29 Sub one on bill On a second. Hold on. Oh, House bill four One. That was my motion. I was starting at, hold on. Okay, so let's make sure if we have the wrong list then we'll, I have this again. We'll start over. We'll start over. I'll take the motion again. Let's make sure we Get it right. I thought I could do it in one take. Mr. Mr. President, somebody's keeping good track of you here. Okay, Mr. President, I move. The following bills be lifted from rules and place at the bottom of the second reading calendar in the following order. HB 2 61 sub two HCR nine sub two HB 2 91 sub one HB 1 29 sub one HB three 13 sub two HB 90 sub two. We, We have a different list, Senator, so I'm not gonna recognize you until we coordinate the list. Okay. So, uh, I'm not gonna recognize that motion but I am, we do, I have a different list. List so just know that so, uh, I'm well let's work on it for a minute. We will take that list before we adjourn. Okay. The same. Maybe Don't adjourn. Don't do it, don't do it one more Time. Okay. One more time. Senator, let's try it. I'm gonna slow down this time and I'm gonna watch Fallon. Okay Mr. President, I move that the following bills be lifted from rules in place at the bottom of the second reading calendar in the following order. HB 2 61 sub two HCR nine sub two HB 4 91 sub one HB 1 29 sub one HB 3 1 3 sub two HB 90 sub two HB 3 21 sub two HB 3 96 sub one HCR two sub two HB 2 0 4 sub one HB 2 36 sub one HB 94 sub three. Senator 84 HB 84. HB 84 sub three. Thank you. HB 2 89. HB 1 37 Sub one H HP one 11 sub one. I'll accept that motion. What time? Thank you. Any uh, any discussion of that motion? We should, I'm gonna place the motion. All in favor say aye. Quickly say aye. And he opposed that motion passes. So those bills will be placed at the bottom of the second reading calendar in the order. Read Senator Brammer to reconsider. I can tell. So let's go. Uh, on the last bill that everyone voted for, there was one word left out and we have an amendment for it that I didn't see and it just corrects the word judicial to or from justice. Uh, counsel to the judicial counsel. So Senator, I'm gonna get you to do some motions here. First I need a motion to suspend the rules. So I'll do a motion to suspend the rules. We have a motion to suspend the rules for the purpose of reconsidering actions. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All that motion passes. Now the motion to, I need a motion to reconsider And I would do a motion to reconsider first substitute house bill 2 0 5. Thank you. We have a motion to reconsider actions on first substitute house bill 2 0 5 substance use intervention amendments. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? I rule that motion passes. I'm gonna place that bill at top of the second reading calendar. I would, I would move to Adopt. Hold on just a second. I need to, I need to call the bill so we need to get it in front of us so we just need to get it on the calendar. Hang on. You're good. Thank you. Let the circle catch up a little. Here. There we go. First substitute house bill 2 0 5. Yeah, so I would move to the dock. Hang on, hang on, Scott. Reading House bill 2 0 5, substance use intervention amendments. Senator Brammer. Senator Brammer. Motion to adopt amendment one. That motion's in order. I think we've had the explanation. Yep. So do we have discussion on the motion to amend Seeing Not all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed or let motion passes the bill, uh, substituted, Uh, dito to what I said three minutes ago. Okay, I'll, I'm looking for note. Any discussion saying that I'm gonna go to you for a motion. I'll call the question. Thank you everyone. The question is, shall first substitute House bill 2 0 5 under suspension of the rules pass.

  5. Sen. Brady Brammer2:17:14

     And I would do a motion to reconsider first substitute house bill 2 0 5.

  6. Sen. Brady Brammer2:17:34

     I would, I would move to Adopt. Hold on just a second.

  7. Sen. Brady Brammer2:17:52

     Yeah, so I would move to the dock.

  8. Senate clerk2:18:33

     Let's do roll call. Vote again. Senator Vickers Baldy Aye. Lewin Aye. Brammer bus Aye. Colmore. Escamilla Fillmore Aye. Grover Aye. Harper Aye. Kinins Aye. Ipson Ipson. Aye. Johnson. Juab. Juab. Okay. Aye. Mikel Milner. Senator Millner Musman Owens Pitcher Plum Rebe Sandal Aye. Stevenson Aye. Stratton Bickers Weiler Aye. Wilson Aye. Winterton House Honor President Adams Aye.

  9. Senate President (presiding)2:19:52

     First substitute House Bill 2 0 5, having received 28 yay votes, zero nay votes, one being absent passes this body and will be sent to the house for further consideration. We have a lot of communications here, so please try to stay with us as we read the communications. So let's start with the first, Mr. President, the house

• Mar 5, 2026 Senate floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (4 turns)

  1. Senate President Adams (presiding)2:18:13

     Aye. Any opposed or let motion passes the bill, uh, substituted, Uh, dito to what I said three minutes ago. Okay, I'll, I'm looking for note. Any discussion saying that I'm gonna go to you for a motion. I'll call the question. Thank you everyone. The question is, shall first substitute House bill 2 0 5 under suspension of the rules pass. Let's do roll call. Vote again.

  2. Senate clerk (roll call)2:18:35

     Senator Vickers Baldy Aye. Lewin Aye. Brammer bus Aye. Colmore. Escamilla Fillmore Aye. Grover Aye. Harper Aye. Kinins Aye. Ipson Ipson. Aye. Johnson. Juab. Juab. Okay. Aye. Mikel Milner. Senator Millner Musman Owens Pitcher Plum Rebe Sandal Aye. Stevenson Aye. Stratton Bickers Weiler Aye. Wilson Aye. Winterton House Honor President Adams Aye.

  3. Senate President Adams (presiding)2:19:52

     First substitute House Bill 2 0 5, having received 28 yay votes, zero nay votes, one being absent passes this body and will be sent to the house for further consideration. We have a lot of communications here, so please try to stay with us as we read the communications. So let's start with the first,

  4. Unknown speaker2:20:15speaker not certain

     Mr. President, the house

• Mar 6, 2026 House floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (6 turns)

  1. Speaker (presiding)29:00

     First substitute House Bill 2 0 5 Substance use intervention amendments by Representative Clancy.

  2. Rep. Tyler Clancy29:07

     Representative Clancy. Thank you Mr. Piute. Me Mr. Speaker Motion to concur

  3. Speaker (presiding)29:12

     That motion is in order. Would like to speak to it?

  4. Rep. Tyler Clancy29:14

     Yes sir. Mr. Speaker, this is the Downtown Safety Initiative legislation that focuses on accountability and recovery. The only thing that the Senate changed prior to its unanimous passage was a technical drafting error where we referenced the Judicial council, but we erroneously drafted it as Justice Council. So it is the exact same substantive piece that passed to this body with only one no vote. Mr. Speaker

  5. Speaker (presiding)29:38

     Thank you Representative MCC Clancy. Discussion to the motion to concur with the Senate amendments on first substitute HB 2 0 5 being done we'll go ahead and place the motion. The motion We force the house concur with Senate amendments on first substitute HB 2 0 5. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Will that motion passes?

  6. Speaker (presiding)29:58

     Voting will now be open on on first substitute HB 2 0 5 for final passage. Representative Kyle, would you like to vote? Representative Mike Peterson. Representative Peck seeing all present having voted voting is now closed for substitute HB 2 0 5 passes this body with 69 yes votes one no vote will be sent to the Senate for the signature of the president, Madam Marine Clerk