H.B. 207 Competency Amendments: transcript

Yes, correct. Okay.

Perfect. So the diff the second sub just makes a technical correction that we realized was wrong on here. Okay. But what this, what this bill does is it requires, uh, it, it, so basically it changes the procedure, but not the substance of competency evaluations. So, for example, sometimes, uh, the state may want, or the state may need to pay for two competency evaluations. Maybe it's a higher level of crime or, you know, whatever it is. And sometimes maybe they only need one. This just says, if you need two, ask for 'em at the same time, don't do one, and then come back and get the second one later. Um, it, let's see. It talks about when people can be transferred to various places, uh, and basically it adds a requirement that it needs to be a clinically appropriate placement. Probably the biggest impact of this is if there is a medication hearing and order in one facility, when they transfer to the other, that stays for a short period of time until the new facility can have a new medication hearing. So it kind of creates more continuity of medication. So those are the highlights. I'm happy to take any questions.

Yeah, do you, my question is, do you feel confident to legislate in this space?

Uh, that's a loaded question there, isn't it? Um, I've, I think I understand a lot of this, but there's still some parts that, and so I did bring a lifeline here, if you guys have we tough

Thank you Mr. Chair. Uh, mark Moffitt on behalf of the Defense Lawyers Association, uh, we'd like to thank Representative Abbott for this bill. Uh, he reached out to us, he's a great collaborator. He got all the stakeholders together, uh, took a look at this issue. Um, this is a consensus bill we'd urge to support.

Alright, thank you. Yeah. My name is Seth Stewart, representing myself from American Fork. Um, I just generally have objection objections to the process of, uh, making these incompetency determinations because they can be used to deprive a, an individual of liberty, and they can be used to force medication. And I think that determination should be done by a jury just for equivalent, so that there's not an asymmetric or an an alternate route for, uh, classifying people or taking away their liberties without due process. So with that, I oppose it. Thank you.

Okay. So I, I move that we pass the second sub.

I'll waive. All right.

I'll waive Senator Balderree. Now you can waive. Waive.

Yes, correct. I will be presenting to the substitute.

So this bill, when when somebody is charged criminally, uh, there may be questions in some instances as to whether or not they are competent to stand trial. And so we have existing laws and procedures in place to work through that process. This law changes, um, some of the procedure, but not the substance of how those evaluations are done and made. Um, for example, on line 53, it says that when a court orders a competency evaluation, they can order either one evaluation or two, but they should make that decision, uh, initially. So not wait for one to come back and then order the second. If you go down to line of the sub 67, then it talks about if there's a need for a second or third competency evaluation, here's kinda the criteria to use to determine whether or not we need that. I wanna make it clear that a defendant can always hire their own evaluator. We're just talking here about when the government DHHS pays for that evaluation. Um, and then there's some other things, like on line 1 28 talks about if clinically appropriate. We wanna make sure that we're not putting people in hospitals when that's not clinically appropriate to do so. And, um, one of the biggest, and I think most helpful changes is near the end, um, online 486. This allows medication orders to be transferred between facilities more easily than has been done in the past. And the idea here is we're going to create a better contu continuity of medication so we won't have gaps when somebody transfers from one facility to another. So that's my presentation and I'm happy to take any questions.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, mark Moffitt, on behalf of the Defense Lawyers Association, uh, Representative Abbott brought this bill to us, um, to I to correct some problems that were occurring in the competency evaluation space. Um, one of the problems that he identified that I think was important to address was the timing of when evaluations two evaluations are conducted. Um, what was happening was that you would have a situation where, um, an initial evaluation was ordered and then after the evaluation came back, perhaps with a favorable or unfavorable result to one party, um, another evaluation would be requested and it delayed things. And so that was an identified problem that we wanted to help him with, um, and we appreciate his, uh, bill and the clarification that it brings to the process. So we would urge the committee to support it. Thank you.

Thank you. Jeremy Christensen, uh, with the Department of Health and Human Services. I'm the assistant superintendent at the Utah State Hospital and the chair of the Forensic Behavioral Health Coordinating Council. We've been working with Representative Abbott and stakeholders, uh, through the interim on this bill, just to as Representative, Abbott representative. And just wanted to, uh, have on the record that the Behavioral Health Commission and also UAF and the forensic Behavioral health, uh, coordinating counselor in support of this bill, as well as the stakeholders involved with, with those committees. Thank you.

Thank you, Jeremy. Yeah, Thanks. Drive. Alright, thank you. Yeah, Stuart. Um, I'll be representing myself. I'll be speaking in opposition to this bill. Uh, historically the judgment of incompetency, that that determination was actually made by a jury and it required a unanimous, the unanimous consent of a jury to determine that a person was not competent to stand trial or that he should be, have his freedoms taken away from him and so on. And I understand that's a longstanding practice, that that, that this has been outsourced to administrative and judicial decision making. Um, but that's not a good reason to double down on that ethic and that way of doing things, especially where this bill allows for reassessment, it allows for reopening that case and potentially strengthening and doubling down on the, on previous determinations and including forced medication that survives transfer to a different institution and so on. Uh, I, I, I say that is severely problematic because anytime that that issue is adjudicated, any, anytime there's a determination that someone is not competent to preserve his own rights, there has to be a jury involved. There has to be that determination with the unanimous verdict. And if, if we're taking that away, we're just weakening the rights of all people. This doesn't just affect people who are different from us. There has to be an actual due process for making that determination. So energy to oppose this bill. Thank you.

Yes. Um, black. Did I give you the wrong microphone there? It's okay. Wrong. Sorry. Okay. I would like to, oh, do we need to adopt a sub? Okay. Um, motion to adopt sub number 1 4 2 60 HB 2 0 7.

Okay. We heard all about it to the sponsor. I'll waive. Okay.

I don't have a light on. Oh no. Sorry It was blinking. I apologize Me. I didn't know which mic s using.

Yeah. I motion that we favorably pass out. First substitute HB 2 0 7 to the house floor with a favorable recommendation.

To the sponsor. I'll

Yes. Uh, no. I wanna speak in support of the bill. Um, I spoke with a good sponsor earlier today and, and this bill does some good things. I run a lot of competency petitions. I appreciate the evaluation from the Utah State Hospital. They're overworked, and I hope this will, uh, accomplish better, uh, economy of their resource. Also, um, you know, forces attorneys to make on the front end a decision about how they want to approach competency and if they want to challenge the findings of a DHS evaluator to, uh, uh, do so on, on, on their own resource and get an independent, mandatory, independent, uh, uh, challenge if it's, uh, expos facto. So I appreciate the bill.

I'll wave And to the maker of the motion,

First substitute House bill 2 0 7 Competency amendments by Representative Abbott. This bill was heard in judiciary with a vote of 8 0 3.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. HB 2 0 7 makes changes to the procedures that are used. Uh, when compet competency evaluations are performed, it does not change the substance of those competency evaluations. Uh, the one big thing it does at the end of the bill is it does allow for portability of medication. When a, when a person is in custody, uh, there's a possibility for a medication hearing. It allows and, and then an order that the person take medication. It allows for portability between facilities. So for example, if somebody goes from jail to jail or from state hospital to jail, they can use that previous order for a short period of time until they have time for a new medication hearing. And that allows the medication to continue, um, and, and not be disrupted at the time of the transfer. With that, I conclude my presentation and I'm happy to take any questions. Thank

Thank you Mr. President. Um, this bill requires, um, that when a court orders two competency evaluations, the evaluations must be, uh, done in the same order that they were ordered. Uh, the department's recommendation and request, um, the defendant may be transferred to a clinical or inpatient setting temporarily for the purpose of the competency evaluation. There's zero fiscal impact. Um, and, uh, I, I will say that the, the house sponsor, uh, Representative Abbott, he, he's worked a lot in this mental health competency arena and, um, knows a lot about, knows a lot more about this than I do. But with that, I'll yield to any questions. See no questions. I'm gonna go to you for a, uh, motion on the bill.

Thank you. Under suspension of the rules, I move that second substitute house bill 2 0 7 Pass. Thank you. The

Senator Vickers Baldy Lewin b Brammer Bus Cullimore Esia Fillmore Grover Harper Hankins Ipson Johnson. Juab McKay. Mikel Milner Musman Owens Pitcher Plum Revy Sandal Stevenson Stratton Vickers Aye. Weiler Aye. Wilson. Aye. Winterton President Adams Aye. Second

Motion to recess till five 30.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to concur.

Yes. When this got to the Senate side, we realized that there was, uh, just a little technical error where as you may recall, we were trying to make, um, medication orders transferable amongst facilities and we realized that we had made court ordered medication orders transferable but not administrative court or not administrative orders transferable. So this fixes that so that both become transferrable. Thank you Representative Abbott.