H.B. 217 Stolen Vehicle Amendments: transcript

Alright, thank you Mr. Chair. This is a, a very simple bill. Um, over the interim, I had a constituent of mine who actually works for Enterprise Rental car come and, and raise a concern that, um, in some jurisdictions that they were being asked before they could report a, a vehicle stolen. Um, that they wait, uh, 10 days and at a 10 day demand letter. Um, um, and then after that demand letter had been sent out, then they'd be able to report the vehicles stolen. Unfortunately, in today's world, uh, when a rental car vehicle like that is gone for that many days, often it has already left the country, uh, definitely left the state and they were very unable to to recover those vehicles. And so in working closely with, um, some of the law enforcement agencies and rental car agencies, we came up with this compromise that, um, allows for anyone to report a, a vehicle stolen at any time. But for those rental car agencies, they have a 48 hour window to be able before they can report it stolen. So if there's a, for whatever reason, a consumer that that, uh, rents a vehicle but then, uh, forgets about it or, um, you know, thinks it's okay to, to bring it back a little bit late, they have that 48 hour window before it's stolen. But, uh, after that they can take the action necessary to recover the vehicle.

No. Okay. Somebody wanna make a motion. Senator Cullimore,

Make the motion that we favorably recommend first substitute House bill two 17.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Always happy to be in front of this committee. Um, my intern has a flyer. Do you mind if she passes that out? Yes, I think, did we? Thank you very much. Alright. So, um, a few months ago, I was, uh, uh, approached by one of my constituents, uh, who worked for Enterprise, uh, rental car. And, uh, he presented a problem that they were dealing with. Um, he said that, uh, based on the requirements of the Salt Lake City Police Department, they were unable to report a car that wasn't returned as stolen until after a number of hoops had been jump, uh, jumped through, including one of them, that they had to present a 10 day demand letter. Um, in a lot of cases they weren't able to, to qualify to report that vehicle was stolen until really 14 days after the vehicle had been, um, taken and or supposed to be returned and not returned. And they said this presented a a number of, of different issues, um, and a lot of times that vehicle in that amount of time had been taken outta the country, had been stripped. They were never able to return it, and that they found that Utah. Uh, though there isn't anything in our code that requires or has any prohibition on municipalities or police departments deciding when something could be reported, it seemed that this requirement that Salt Lake City had imposed was quite a fa quite a bit out of range of what they'd seen in any other state. And so, um, I, I filed the bill file at that time, started working with Salt Lake City Police, I think with their new police chief. He recognized that this was an issue. Um, they have since, uh, changed their policy. Um, but what you see here in the first substitute of House Bill two 17, um, is really simply, um, a, uh, a requirement that says that a political subdivision, um, or, uh, police agency cannot enforce a law or ordinance that would restrict a person's ability to report the theft of a vehicle or impose some sort of time limit, um, before which they are prohibited from reporting that vehicle. Now, in, in conversations with Salt Lake City Police, uh, they had changed their rule to 72 hours, um, allowing some time. They said that essentially there's, uh, some, sometimes people are just a little bit late. There's a lot of paperwork that has to go through. They wanted some sort of buffer. Um, and what, what we've worked out here is what you'll see starting in lines, uh, 50 that essentially say that, um, they can prohibit a person from filing a stolen vehicle report, uh, up to 78 hours after the vehicle's scheduled return time under a written rental agreement. But it does provide, uh, a carve out that essentially says that if they have some evidence that shows that it's likely that person is trying to steal the vehicle, that they could report it sooner than that time. And those things would be like, uh, it's being used by Anth unauthorized person. Uh, there was material misrepresentation or fraud in obtaining the possession of the vehicle and expressed refusal to return the vehicle. They called and talked to him and they said, no, I'm not returning it. Um, uh, or other, uh, credible information or facts, uh, that it is being used in the commission of a crime or that they're demonstrating an intent to permanently deprive the owner of, of that, um, that vehicle. So, so that is the bill. We believe that this will, um, really help these types of situations that allow people to get the police right on the situation and hopefully recover the vehicle before, um, it is taken and, and dismantled. Now I have another constituent of mine, just coincidentally, that also works for, um, enterprise Rental Car, um, Anna Faber, who is, um, a risk manager. And, um, she's here to help describe some of the hassle that they have to go through when municipalities have these types of prohibitions that don't allow them to report a car as stolen. So, if I can turn some time over to Anna. Welcome Anna. Thank you.

Hello. Yeah. As, as was stated, uh, my name's Anna Faber. I'm a risk manager for Enterprise Mobility, which operates under the three brands, enterprise National and Alamo. Um, and my job entails handling any overdue vehicles, which can often include stolen vehicles. So within our three brands, we do not take reporting vehicles stolen lightly. We understand that it is a great, um, exposure not only for us, but for a renter who, um, is operating one of our vehicles. So we go to great lengths to ensure that the vehicle is truly listed as stolen or is truly stolen prior to us going through the actual theft report process. And what we found is that we were having some challenges with various municipalities in, um, having consistency with, uh, when we were able to report vehicles as stolen. And what we were finding is that oftentimes those vehicles were being used in the commission of a crime, um, by unauthorized drivers, or were being taken, as was stated out of the country, uh, to be used by various organized entities. Um, and it just makes it very challenging for us to be able to, um, operate our business and to ensure that we are reporting vehicles that truly need to be listed as stolen in a timely fashion. Um, we don't just report vehicles with, for the sake of law enforcement to be used as a repossession company. We go through the links of doing our own background checks on, uh, customers. We send our own certified demand letter through mail, FedEx, and email. Um, and we also hire our own private investigator company prior to us listing a vehicle as stolen. And that does take some time. But we were finding that once we had gone through that, and if we were, um, determining that a vehicle was being used in the commission of a crime, there was very little that we could do to stop that from happening prior to us being able to list it based off of these various waiting periods. If I can just add, um, in conclusion, I, I think part of the problem that this creates is it really adds a beacon, uh, to Salt Lake City and, and other municipalities that have these types of policies where these organized crime groups understand what the policies are and can take advantage of those laws. So this cleans that up. And also, uh, what I hope the, the outcome is here is that this allows for these companies because they have to cover these losses. Um, when, when we don't allow for, for these types of criminals to take advantage of the law, to ensure that that, um, rental rates are lower, insurance rates are lower, uh, et cetera, because we haven't allowed them to take advantage of that, that then those costs get passed on to the customer. So with that, happy to answer any questions and urge your support of the bill.

Um, my only question is, are there any other states that have put in provisions like this, or would we be the first as we always are?

Yeah, no, I'll, I'll let, um, Anna talk to it. Thank you.

We, we tried to look, uh, across the country to see what were the standard times that people were taking. And this seemed to be within the, the normal range of what they were looking at. 48 hours to 72 hours seemed to be the timeframe that other states were allowing.

Anna, do you have any experience or,

Yeah, I, um, prior to working here in Salt Lake, I worked in Houston, Texas, and in the state of Texas, you're required 48 hours prior to being able to list a vehicle as stolen.

Thank you so much for that.

Thank you. Uh, so the discussion here has mostly been about commercial and rental cars, but it appears that this also applies to private citizens. So currently if I were in, if I were here and my car was stolen, I wouldn't be allowed to report it to Salt Lake City Police, right, right away. Yeah.

It's a, it's a good question. I don't know. Salt Lake City, uh, police department's policy for, uh, private vehicles and if it's different, I think their policy was specific to those rental company vehicles that they were requiring the 10 day demand letter because they were looking at it as really contractual dispute rather than it being a criminal dispute, um, even though it could eventually turn into a criminal dispute. Um, so again, I don't know what Salt Lake City's policy is for, you know, just a private theft, but this would ensure that they couldn't have such a policy.

Yeah. Okay. Then one more follow up. I might, so then, um, so reporting a car stolen when it's just a contractual dispute is in itself inappropriate under another law, right. Re reporting a crime that, that, you know, is not really a crime is already punishable by the courts or somebody, right.

So, correct. So that, that seems like it would already take care of itself.

So this, this bill just gets the balance, right, which is, is like, you can report it, but you better be sure that it's, that it's more likely than not stolen and not just, well, it's late and I got another renter here and I want to get it out the door and I'm using the, the police to kind of help my business along.

I it actually does have to in fact be in your mind at least stolen.

Correct. Okay. I, I like that. Thank you.

I was just gonna say before I go, uh, Representative Thurston, I asked Salt Lake City if they supported the bill and they had no issue with this bill.

Mr. Chair. And so this deals with people reporting and when they can report it does, does it do anything to the police on how they triage reports that, you know, they're gonna look at the evidence based on their caseload and, and prioritize it, however, they might, it doesn't put any conditions on them, does it? That's,

That's exactly right. And it also doesn't put any conditions on how it's prosecuted later on. So that would be up to the DA's office or the county attorney if they decide to prosecute a crime.

I would like to make the motion that we pass out for substitute, oh, do we need to adopt the sub? I make the motion we adopt for substitute house bill two 17.

I'll Waive. Okay.

And then if I may, Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion that we pass out for substitute house bill two 17 with a favorable recommendation.

to speak to that motion representative? Seems To make sense. Okay.

I appreciate the discussion and, and the motion.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Uh, colleagues, uh, over the interim I had one of my constituents reach out and we Uintah lunch and uh, it turned out he worked for Enterprise Renter CAR and he explained to me that uh, we had some municipalities in the state that, uh, had a rule within their, um, police departments that, um, they couldn't, uh, report a car being stolen until the company had sent out a 10 day demand letter prior to, um, reporting it as stolen. And this caused some significant issues because often if they wait that amount of time to send out the letter and wait 10 days from when the rental car was supposed to be returned, uh, that car had left. This definitely left the state often had left the country had been completely dismantled and they were never able to find it again. And so, um, started looking into this issue and that was the genesis of of House Bill two 17. Uh, as you'll see currently, there is no law that restricts the period of time before a vehicle can be reported. Stor, uh, be reported stolen every minute counts when trying to recover a stolen vehicle. And so, uh, really simply, HB two 17 prohibits a municipality or a police department from enacting a rule or a law, uh, that imposes a time limit on a private individual's ability to report a vehicle is stolen. The law also requires that rental companies cannot be required to wait longer than a 48 hour time period to report the vehicle is stolen. And that was a compromise that we worked out, um, with the cities to ensure that sometimes people are just a little late returning their vehicles. We don't want them, you know, pulled over. But by that 48 hour time period, that's been enough time that if they haven't returned the vehicle or been able to reach out and work it out with the rental company, that those vehicles can be reported stolen. So Mr. Speaker, happy to answer any questions about the bill.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Will the, uh, sponsor yield to a question? Representative Teuscher, will you yield to a question?

Thank you. Uh, so, so my understanding here, there's no statewide standard. It depends on the municipality. Some of them have a 10 day waiting period, some of them have no waiting period at all.

That's correct. Um, Mr.

Speaker, I rise in support of this bill. Um, I think that it's appropriate to have a statewide cool off period before rental companies can, uh, call in a stolen vehicle. A stolen vehicle is a second degree felony, that's a one to 15 year potential prison sentence. Uh, as a public defender, I've had experiences where rental companies have abused law enforcement as their own personal collection agency. Um, I recall one case where I had a client that, uh, rented a car with a mobile app, was late in the terms of hours, and was greeted with a detective and, uh, charged for the second degree felony, uh, because there was no minimum cool off period. Um, I've had similar experiences with other rental companies as well. I think that this carries good balance. Um, it, uh, keeps in mind the rights of renters. So any of us that, uh, are late with, uh, returning a rental don't get charged with a very serious felony crime. But it also protects the interest of good faith rental companies that don't want to lose, uh, their, uh, their possessions and vehicles. So I support the bill. Thank you.

Well, I've never, uh, had a, uh, rental car stolen, but when you get your own vehicle stolen, uh, uh, I'd just sure hate to have to wait 10 days before I could report it stolen because, uh, it definitely could be clear outta the country. Thank goodness mine was found in Grand Junction, but I didn't have any use for the marijuana roach Crip clips that were in the, in the, uh, ashtray. So, uh, anyway, I think this is a good bill.

Teuscher for summation. Thank You, Mr. Speaker. I agree this strikes the right balance and I urge your support. Thank you.

Motion to encircle house bill 300. We have a motion to encircle house bill. 300 School district taxation amendments.

Thank you. I'd move that house. Bill two 17 pass. First substitute house bill two 17 pass.

Thank you. Motional Circle. We're looking on working on a potential amendment.

Thank you Mr. President. Um, this is a bill that would, um, lift the requirement that people who are speeding more than 10 miles an hour through a school zone have to go and stand with the crossing guards. This is placed an incredibly undue burden on the crossing guards. They never signed up to babysit speeders. They never signed up to sign paperwork for the court. And, um, it's also proven to be distracting them from doing their job of keeping kids safe. So this bill would still allow a judge to order community service, uh, but would take this burden away from crossing guards. And with that I'll yield to any questions.