H.B. 219 Higher Education Civics Amendments: transcript

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and committee members. Happy Birthday America. This is an exciting year as we celebrate the 250th anniversary of our country. And in relation to that, I, one of my most memorable experiences in higher ed was actually my very last course that I took writing of all the classes to get to graduate. And it was one of my favorites. Why? Because it was actually an online class, even back then. We studied the Bill of Rights, our constitution, um, Martin Luther King Jr. Speech, uh, speeches, um, Calvin Coolidge, Ronald Reagan, John F. Kennedy. And that was real. And the Gettysburg Address, I remember those specifically because throughout my time in school, we studied US history. But that didn't mean that I was exposed to really reading and analyzing these, these documents that are so vital to who we are as a people. And so I fast forward a few years, I'm so excited. My kids are in college, the age, now age is 22 to 32. And repeatedly as each one came in, what did you do in your writing assignment? Right? What was your class? None of it was evaluating or looking at any, um, documents that are pertinent to our nation. In fact, um, all of them said it was just some random this and random that. And, um, it just wasn't worth their, but according to them, again, I've got six kids, so they have all different perspectives, but none of them may, was anything of any substance that they, that they read or studied. So in, uh, collaborating with, um, Utah State University, Utah Valley University, the University of Utah, and u, she the Utah System of Higher Education in finding out what could be some parameters for our higher ed institutions in what is a required writing class to give flexibility to the professors as well as have some kind of, um, uh, exposure to these important documents. So the documents that are listed here are presidential speeches, um, meaning that they're written messages by presidents of the United States that address matters of national significance or articulate principles of governance. It also includes seminal documents, which is defined as founding documents, president speeches, Supreme Court opinions that establish major constitutional PRI principles and other historical documents identified by the board. So beginning the 20 26, 27 academic year, it requires of, uh, the, the, the Yi board to establish a policy for all of the institutions of higher education in the required writing course. To have some element of this. It's not every single assignment, it's not every single document. It still gives the flexibility because right now the writing assignments are all up to whatever the background happens to be of that writing professor. And so it also, part of writing is having analytical writing assignments, um, that have a close reading of primary source texts, analysis of historical and rhetorical context, synthesis of multiple sources and evidence-based argumentation. So, um, just so grateful for the institutions of higher, uh, education throughout our state who found that this is actually something that they're wanting to do. This does not affect the current Utah State University pilot that was established by Senator John Johnson to look at how we can teach civics at a higher ed level. Um, but what this does is says, you know what, if you are at our higher institutions and you're not from the United States, this is a great exposure If you are in our higher institutions and you are from Utah, but whether you have or have not studied these documents, this is a, this is at a higher level of learning to look at them. And someone said, but don't they study this in high school? And my answer is, just because they learn US history doesn't mean that they've actually read these documents. So with that, I really appreciate the support of, of so many across our high at institutions to make this flexible for professors. But really it's, it's time to make sure that those are in our higher ed institutions have exposure to really what makes America so great. That concludes my presentation. Alright.

Thank you Mr. Chair, thank you for bringing this bill forward. Uh, just a couple questions. Number one, um, where is you sheet on this? Have they been, are they supportive of this? Have you been Well talking with them, that would be question number one. And then number two are, are they already doing this? Are, are there, is this hard to being done in universities and to what level? And if you can kind of touch on that, please.

Um, if they're here, I welcome them to come up. Um, they were actually really excited because it's something that they, they're looking at right now because of the u Utah State pilot of how to teach civics and incorporate it across our higher institutions. But nothing has a writing element. And so I think that's why Yui was such an important part for me of, of how welcoming they were to incorporating this policy into a writing aspect. Just because these are the documents that, that we should have our, our students at the higher, uh, institutions to actually read and have the opportunity to analyze and give their own opinion and, and have that be part of it. So I appreciate you asking those.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I'm not seeing here what year in college or university would this be considered one of the core classes or is this just an elective thing? And the reason why I ask actually, is because I love what you're proposing here. It's a great idea. I do worry a little bit that it might be slightly duplicative with some of the other things we've passed recently, although you could speak to that as well. Um, but then my son, my oldest son, Uintah, a liberal arts university, and the whole first year was like, and that, that freshman year was like, all this foundation stuff just like this, right? They even went as far as to say they were gonna read like the Old Testament, you know, because it was like a basic thing and it was like one whole class on that. And so I love the idea of forming a foundation underneath education, but I feel like it would be best served early on. So that's why I'm wondering what year is this coming in? Is it a half to, is it a maybe? And if you could maybe talk about the duplicative thing.

Yeah, as I mentioned, this does not exist as far as the original documents of presidential speeches anywhere in our higher ed institutions. Um, and, uh, let's see, your second question was, um, so I just lost my train of thought. What was your second question? The year, oh, When it comes In, the year, when, when it's gonna come in and, and how it's gonna come in. So right now in our higher, our public, higher inti, higher ed institutions, this is not private. These are public institutions. In Utah, there is a required writing class, both usually a general and also a higher level writing class. So that's where this would fit in. So if somebody took AP courses or whatever and, and tested out of them that they would not have this exposure. But for any other student who is, is taking writer, writing required courses, um, that's where this would fit in. And, um, without me being so prescriptive of exactly how and how many and so forth, that's why it is up to the ushi board to put it in their policy for, um, for schools to, to incorporate this into their required writing courses for public institutions.

Thank you so much. I'm Delaine England. I'm representing United, United Women's Forum, also Eagle Forum a Republic, if you can keep it. We have, are so blessed to have a republic form of government in the United States and in the state of Utah. In fact, the only place in the constitution that requires a state to do anything is an Article four, section four, where it says A state must provide a republic form of government. These, I love this bill. I just wanna tell the sponsor Thank you so much. I'm so excited about this bill. I hope you'll vote for it. Um, our founding documents are just so vitally important for our freedom for us to exist as a republic. And to continue on, we must learn and study our founding documents. Um, I don't know if you're aware, there was 12 years ago, I'll be really fast. Um, uh, Congress did a survey. A survey was done to Congress, 80% of Congress admitted they had never read the Constitution. One in 10 Americans have read the Declaration of Independence. Let's change that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair members committee. I'm Brad, a EC president of a FT Utah, also representing our local for higher ed, uh, A FT Utah College Council, local 47 38. Uh, we do appreciate the substitute of this bill, which did take out, uh, some of the things that Utah state in the CCE uh, senator there, uh, did make it better. But we still are opposing this bill. Uh, I appreciate the good sponsor talking to Yushi and, and working with them, but, uh, I have not heard, nor with any of my constituents that faculty in the English departments, in the writing departments were consulted on this. I've heard from them, uh, there's some real issues with academic freedom, the way that they teach that the experts in the classroom on writing and composition, and with all the research and their professionalism, they know what works best. Thank you.

Uh, my name is Kyle Kru. I am representing myself though I am also an instructor at Utah Tech University, uh, who primarily teaches the classes who would be, uh, affected by this bill. I'd like to speak against this bill largely because I think that the focus on civics documents and providing civics education sort of misapprehends the current best practices in teaching, writing, and teaching composition at the college level. And I think is potentially also somewhat contrary to, uh, some of the goals and missions that we have at our open, uh, enrollment and community colleges in which our focus is largely on elements of literacy on sentence and paragraph level development, basic literacy skills, and information literacy. Uh, thank you.

So I just wanna make sure I'm understanding correctly. I think I heard you say it correctly that, um, these documents and teaching this material is contrary to current education and current thought. I, I'm maybe paraphrasing, is that, is that correct? Is that what you said?

Uh, sort of Could you maybe restate what you said just for clarification? So, um, as an educator in composition, a great deal of what we do is focused on basic elements of liter literacy, basic information literacy. And I'm not suggesting that the content of these documents are something that's going to be harmful to our students or anything like that, but that the additional burden of including civics as a part of a class that's specifically developed or based around developing, uh, composition skills and literacy skills might, particularly in our open enrollment or community college environments, potentially distract from the already relatively challenging mission for many of us of making sure that our students are equipped to meet core competency in reading and information literacy.

Thank you. I think you, uh, I appreciate, um, that clarification.

Yes, thank you, chair. My name is Kristy Hinshaw and I am speaking on behalf of myself. Uh, what a, what a breath of fresh air to hear of HB two 19. I'm actually here for something else, but just quickly, a little bit of my story. Uh, as a high school student, I loved history. I took ap, uh, govern, govern sit before it was called that twice. I also graduated with a teaching degree. It took my sister having an affiliation with a, a college similar to Hillsdale College, um, when I was a mom with small children to realize that although I could answer all of the questions on the test and get very good scores, I had never actually read the documents. And so I spent, while my children were young, two years, um, deep in those and then ended up teaching community courses because it's a tragedy to raise children on principles that they've never read or never had firsthand experience, uh, with it. So, um, although I appreciate what was just said previously about getting skills, um, if we do not know where our rights come from, how will we ever defend them and what a wonderful thing and a, and possibly a, a hole that she has found in the system where we think we know these things, but until we actually have firsthand experience with 'em. So I urge you to vote yes on HB two 19. Thank you.

Thank you Chair. Walter, uh, Katie Azzie with the Utah System of Higher Education. Uh, our board, the Board of Higher Education is not taken a position on the bill. However, I do wanna speak to maybe some of the, the questions that arose around general education courses right now, uh, and to the collaboration that the sponsor had referenced. Uh, so we do have three credits in American institutions and general education across Yoshi, uh, as well as the humanities. Uh, what this does and what the sponsor was very, uh, receptive to when we were providing feedback. Uh, when we look at lines 47 and 48, there's language in here that still gives deference to the institutions. Uh, it says that writing course, uh, to incorporate Seminole documents and writing courses where the institution and the course instructor determine the InCorp, determine the incorporation is appropriate, and advances the learning objectives, and then later on maintains the genre diversity in general education, writing from narrative and creative writing, all the way down to, uh, digital and multi, uh, multimodal composition. So just wanted to provide some insight and clarity into, uh, our involvement so far. Thank you.

Uh, so Representative Welton Your chair. I actually had a question for the last, uh, Alright.

No, I'm sorry. Rejoined as a panelist. Hi, representative Walton.

Hi, how are you? I, I was just curious like where this, where you actually see this fitting in. Is it like a English 10 10 English 10 50? Is it American Heritage type class? Like where do you, where would you see this being implemented?

Yeah, so Seminole documents are already covered in American institutions. Largely. I think what the sponsor is trying to say is in general education writing, are there opportunities to incorporate semial documents there as well, which would be like an English 10 10 for example. Um, as far as the extent to which these seminal documents are taught within existing general education writing, we haven't had an opportunity to do like a full quantitative, quantitative and qualitative analysis of all general education writing offerings across yushi or look at their syllabi. Uh, so while I suspect that some of this is happening, um, I, I couldn't give you a definitive answer as to the earlier question from the committee.

Okay. So they're, they're, they're required but not necessarily for writing purposes and we're not sure where we would park them.

Right. So the writing general education is what's new here. We already have the American institutions three credits of gen ed on the other side, which is already existing. Uh, and then this just, uh, calls on, you know, faculty and institutions to consider, um, opportunities to incorporate seminal documents further into gen ed writing.

Okay. Thank you Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Is there a sub to this one? It's already been adopted by rules, then we're awesome. I move that we favorably recommend, uh, first substitute HB two 19.

It sounds to me like she's worked with a lot of people on this and it sounds like it's gonna fit very nicely into the writing section, the university, and it's been very thoughtful. I, I like the concept.

Thank you Mr. Chair. And I too appreciate the sponsor's work on this. I think it's really important conversation to have, and I am grateful that higher ed has been willing to look at it, but it also seems to me, and, and this is where the concern is, that this bill doesn't actually require this to happen. And under this bill it looks like it would be completely deferential to the universities. And so, um, it already is completely deferential to the universities. So the bill doesn't actually do anything. And so for that reason, I will be voting against the bill, not because I don't think it's a good idea, but because, um, the, the ability to do this already exists and I think it's a good suggestion, but we don't generally pass suggestions, um, in this body. And I think it's important with the number of bills that we have and the instructions we've received to be cautious in committee that we should be careful in voting. Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you for bringing this bill forward. Um, not to belabor, belabor the point, um, I think line 71 and 73 pointing out that an institution of higher education may voluntarily adopt this. I I just got texts from several educators saying that they do. And so I, this might be a fantastic idea. Um, but just based on what I'm hearing and how many, how much work we have to do as a legislature, it sounds like this is already something that's happening. So congratulations on your good idea. It's already happening. And I will be voting no, but thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to explain, um, my reason for supporting this bill. I've taught both kinds of courses. I taught, uh, regular sophomores where, um, I'm alluding to the professor at Utah Tech where you teach basic writing five paragraph essay, where's the thesis statement? You know, all of those basics. And it, it would be difficult, I think, in a basic writing class to just have it all based on these, uh, these documents. But the, the thing that will persuades me to vote for it is 47 and 48 as someone pointed out. Uh, it requires them to incorporate seminal documents in where the institution and the course instructor determine the incorporation is appropriate and advances the learning objectives. So in addition to teaching basic writing, I taught advanced placement. And there you use literature and I, you could do the same thing, I guess in an AP history course, but it depends on the type of course. And I think you can do both. According to this bill, if I thought it mandated only a writing course, uh, a freshman writing course or 10 10 or whatever number it is that did just use the seminal documents, then I might be opposed to it. But I think there's that leeway in there. So I'll be supporting the bill. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I know this is out of order of operations, but may I ask the bill sponsor question? You May. Thank you. Uh, I just wanted to clarify. So like I'm looking at the first sub on line 45, it says, the board shall establish policy. So it is an action item. Am I missing something? Is there another amendment I'm missing?

No, the board shall establish a policy. So the comments before are for other parts that give the flexibility for the institutions of where and how they wanna do things. But line 45, beginning the 20 26, 20 27 academic year, the board shall establish a policy that requires an institution of higher education to incorporate seminal documents into writing courses where the institution and the course instructor determine the incorporation is appropriate and advances the learning objections of the course. And right below that, analytical writing assignments. So this does require that the board have a policy and it does give flexibility for the institutions to decide how they want to incorporate this policy. Okay.

Thank you for Thats The shall part or the may part. Yeah, it comes later. Okay. Thank you for clarifying.

Thank you. Um, I appreciate the thoughtfulness on this bill. I, I guess this is my concern I'd like to express. Um, last year, representative Libe and Senator Johnson ran the bill around the USU Center for Civic Excellence and while that is housed at Utah State University, our goal and objective for that, the work that they are doing on general education courses is that it will spread across to all of our universities. And, um, I'm really excited about the work that they are doing around civics. It's really incredible work and it's a really incredible way to think about how we change the general education experience of our students to ensure that they do understand foundational documents, the importance of, um, the good great books and all of these things that we just value. And we want to be part of a, of a four year bachelor's degree program in our state. And I guess I am a little concerned that some of this may conflict with the work that's happening at Utah State, and that work just feels so critical to me, um, that I don't want to send them in a different direction. They're very, um, focused right now at Utah State on trying to figure out how this can look and how it can work. And they're building the courses and the curriculum and, and, um, they have a lot of momentum. We've had 250 faculty members that have been talking about this. Um, and so I guess I don't want to have them take their eye off the ball for anything. Um, and I'm a little worried if we pass things that they might see not necessarily as conflicting, but that, but that we'll have them have to rethink and, and redo some of the work that they're in the middle of doing. And so that's my concern. Um, but I think the good news is we all agree with the concept. We agree with what we're trying to do and that's why we supported the bill last year. So, um, that's just my thoughts about it. Thank you.

Thank you so much. I just wanna address that last comment because that was a really important part of this first substitute because I got together with Utah State University and said, tell me about your pilot. And number one, that will not be incorporated until at least 2029 if that. It's gonna take some time. It's gonna take a process. In talking with Ushi, in talking with the institutions that I did bring to the table, um, who oversee, um, the writing, just 'cause you don't have every professor at the table doesn't mean that the institution isn't represented. Right? So in talking with these institutions, they actually welcomed it because they said, we, we want to start incorporating more of these things. So by having this legislation, it's, it starts, the other institutions start thinking and talking about how are we going to, and where can we teach civics because the pilot is awesome and, and, and this does not affect that, but that is a few years down the road. This would be immediate. Um, so for example, one of the institutions that I mentioned, um, said, we actually are really anxious to start to get started instead of waiting until 2029. And this gives some very specific directions as to the seminal documents and presidential speeches that we probably used to teach that it's been a long time since it's been part of it. So they appreciated the flexibility, but also the ability to start now instead of waiting for a pilot to finish. And I, and then for Utah State to say, no, we actually appreciate this. This doesn't affect our pilot and may actually help the incorporation when we finish the pilot of institutions already thinking and, and, and be having this part of what they're doing. It'll actually be a little more seamless with this process in place. Alright. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. Um, it sounds like me and Representative Moss will be on the same side and I love that. Anyway. Anyway. Um, so I, I, uh, encourage my colleagues to vote for the bill.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members. Uh, first, the reason this, uh, legislation has come about is because in our higher ed institutions, not everyone who attends is from the United States. Not everyone who attends is from Utah. And even if they were, uh, students in high school in Utah, um, it does not mean that they have ever read our American documents, presidential speeches and seminal, uh, documents that are really about our founding, uh, fathers and presidential speeches. So I'm gonna read, uh, from line 45 just describing what this does. So, uh, one bit of background is USU has a pilot prepared right now for how to, how the university, Utah, Utah State University is putting civics into all different parts of curriculum. Uh, that pilot is scheduled to finish in 2029. This legislation is, uh, for the beginning of the fall, um, academic year. And in working with yohi multiple institutions, it's pretty easy to be able to have this, um, incorporated. So line 45, beginning in the 20 26, 27 academic year, the board, meaning the Yushi Board, shall establish a policy that requires an institution of higher education to inc incorporate seminal documents into writing courses where the institution and the course instructure, I can't speak tonight, the institution and the course instructor determine the incorporation is appropriate and advances the learning objections of the course objectives. I wanna start over. Um, also that it encourages analytical writing assignments that use seminal documents as primary, primary sources to develop a student's skill in close reading of primary source texts, analysis of historical and rhetorical context, synthesis of multiple sources and evidenced-based argumentation. And so this also, as the next line says, preserves the discretion of institutions and faculty to determine how to incorporate these seminal documents. So, um, earlier the definition on lighty 35 is that seminal documents means primary source documents of enduring significance to American history, government, or civic discourse, including founding documents, presidential speeches, supreme court opinions that establish major constitutional principles and other historical documents identified by the board that have shaped American institutions or democratic traditions. And I, um, I think this is really important because, um, a lot of our, uh, nine through 12 or even K through 12, um, studies for students helps them to understand civic duties and even US history, but there's nothing that helps them to do this critical ana analytical writing and thinking and, um, opinion forming, um, like we have in a higher ed institution for writing. So this still, uh, allows the professors to have some flexibility. It's not a hundred percent, it's not even, doesn't even say which portion of their teaching, but it does need to include some form of these. And I have to say, the very last class I ever took, um, in my bachelor's program was a writing course. I took it online and I thought, oh boy, I can't believe I have one more class left. It was my favorite class. The entire writing course was only these seminal documents. I read the Bill of Rights and formed an opinion, read the Gettysburg Address, um, read I Have A Dream, and the Birmingham Jail speech, um, reading, um, Calvin Coolidge and reading John F. Kennedy. And I, I, for the first time as a student, had the opportunity to really look at these documents, but at, but then write about my opinion regarding those things. And so I think as we celebrate America two 50 this year and the founding of our country, whether students have been in Utah High School or, uh, are from Utah or from out of the, out of our state or out of the country, I think this is really important foundational, um, opinions and documents that all of our students should have some kind of exposure to. Um, I, I think as we, we go about and, um, hear various opinions of our young adults, I think this is, uh, really important for the future of our country to understand what our country's been formed on. That concludes my presentation. Thank you. Uh, we'll come back to the committee for comments, clarifying questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Line eight. Um, I like, you know, allows institutions to voluntarily adopt, um, line nine establishes minimum requirements. Why is one voluntary? And then the other one's establishing minimum requirements. I mean, I like this bill. I think it can already be happen, but it, that makes me nervous that you're forcing people to create a minimum requirement for, for having people teach something. I think that's why instead of reading from the provisional highlights, I read directly from the bill that the bill requires the board to establish a policy. So this is rulemaking, this is not us determining what that is, um, of what would be included, but it does preserve the discretion of the institutions to determine how to incorporate these writing courses. So it does have that flexibility. So I think that's why it requires that the board have a policy that this be part of writing, um, in, in the higher institutional learning, but still has the flexibility. And of many of these types of documents, it's not, you have to teach the following eight documents. Um, it gives quite a broad opportunity for the professors to choose if they want to have a presidential speech or a Bill of rights or a Supreme Court opinion, whatever they deem they want to study. So I think that's where the, the flexibility lies. Thanks. Um, I'm looking through my emails. I, I have gotten some opposition to this. I hope you can work with the people that are opposing this bill. I think we can already do this. And, um, the only questions I have is about the minimum standard. So, um, I I, I support teaching these things. I think they're great. I just don't understand why we need to put them in code. So I'm gonna be supporting it to get it out of committee, but I hope we can work with the people that are posing this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. When I was younger, I used to stay up later and watch a mo a show, a talk show called Jay Leno, and he had this thing called, uh, jaywalk. And they had to interview people that as college graduates that didn't know a damn thing about anything. And so to allow, uh, the, if we don't set these parameters up, in my opinion, if you, some, some schools will teach it, but some won't. And I think if we just leave it up to them, we're gonna still have a bunch of idiots wandering around the streets of New York and Los Angeles not having a clue why we're celebrating our 250th year here in the United States. That makes us different than the rest of the world. And I think they ought, people ought to know that if they want to be here, they should know that, if not go back to where they came from or whatever. So, but anyway, and, and people that are born here don't know, and they're not teaching in grade school, and if you're gonna give 'em a college degree, they damn sure ought to know this. And so I'm supportive of it myself. Thank you. Would you like to address any of those issues?

Yes. Thank you so much. Actually, um, it does not specifically mention Utah State. Initially, we had a collaboration with the pilot, and they said, no, go ahead and take us out, because this could easily be incorporated with whatever the results are of the pilot. The challenge with waiting is that's not till 2029. And so this is incorporated this fall right now, and I appreciate, um, um, Devin Weiser was actually gonna be here, but he's at the dentist this afternoon and couldn't be here. So he apologizes. But, um, I, I think that's why, um, we did come to this first sub that Utah State, uh, was part of crafting. And also the, the fact that you, she, um, is starting to do these things. This is definitely in line. It's not, um, out of the ordinary. And they were very welcoming. And that's why I had, um, all of the major institutions on board at the table as we discussed this language. And they felt like it was very doable and easy to be able to incorporate it this year, um, into the curriculum.

I'm Rick McDonald, um, here as a private citizen, um, in the American Federation of Teachers. And I've been a, uh, writing instructor at Utah Valley University for 28 years. And I've been teaching writing for 35 years on the college level. So, um, there's so much to talk about, and I know you're gonna cut me off. So, um, this bill and fringes on students and faculties rights to curriculum design and academic freedom. It creates a system level curriculum expectations, board, board, curated reading lists, and a compliance oriented voluntary model. Together these lead to informed, uh, informal coercion, self-censorship and politicization of tech selection. The bill's primary focus on writing skills would make this mainly applicable to first year writing courses, how it's written now, this would apply at UVU to first year writing courses. This information is already taught in a class called American Heritage and the first installment of American History. Now, they don't all have to take that, but, okay. Um, so also there's the numerous uses of the word required. For example, at line 46, and then later it's 75, um, where it says the analytical, uh, writing assignments, uh, are, where it stipulates that they, there three analytical writing assignments on the founding documents. That, that's a lot of writing assignments. If you're calling a writing assignment, what we call a writing assignment. 'cause we have four major writing assignments in our class as it stands. And that does not allow you to cover all the genres. So I don't want to Thank you.

Delaine England. I'm speaking for Utah Eagle Forum and also United Women's Forum. Um, I love this bill. I think it's amazing. I absolutely love it. Writing is such an important skill, and it is, you know, our founding documents are literally part of the great books. They're the foundation of the great books. Um, as a private ed teacher, we integrate these documents in every class. So we're always, we're already doing this. We're doing it in every class. They're writing about our founding documents, and it, it really shows, you can tell not only in their writing skills, but their understanding of our nation and the principles of our nation was founded on. Um, writing is such a great way to learn these principles, and it makes, it makes learning them really fun. I think the bill is very well written because it isn't really forceful, but it does, so is supportive. And I also think it's really important to note that only one in 10 Americans have ever read the Declaration of Independence. And to Senator Hinkins, I think he did an excellent testimony. I love his testimony on Ditto because our citizens do not even know about our founding documents. It's a great way for them to learn it. So we, I ask you to please vote for it. Thank you so much.

Um, I'm on the State Board of Education, but I am speaking on behalf of myself today. And I just have to tell you, I have two students, our kids right now who are in college and they have been taking, um, courses. And I love this idea because the things they've had to write about were not along this lines. And, um, some of those content areas, really, despite the fact there's this freedom out there to have kids write about things, some of the content was not what, um, I think we're paying for, for taxpayers. So I do like this idea of at least having a provision in here of these type of items to write about that are, that are sound. So thank you.

Thank you. Maryanne Christensen, executive Director of Utah Legislative Watch, and I am here in support of the bill. When you think about the children in your lives, they might start out with a curiosity, but they don't really learn to love something until they learn about something. Um, Senator Hinkins mentioned the jaywalking segments that were so hilarious because people knew absolutely nothing about the country or the government or any of our founders or anything that someone should know at that age. Um, but what followed from that, what follows from that lack of knowledge is at the very best just indifference and disregard about our country. We need to, we're, we're at a crossroads right now where we have a lot of people not loving our country, and we need to decide that we're gonna do everything in our power to turn that around. And this is a great way to begin that process. So thank you for voting. Yes.

Hi, yeah, my name is Carrie Holt and I am a citizen, uh, resident of Cash Cash County. And I also teach English at Utah State, but I'm just here to speak as a private citizen today. And yeah, I just wanna reiterate the points that even though it says that this is voluntary, that language also a requirement as a teacher, it really does not feel voluntary. Um, it seems like there's an expectation here that we'll be evaluated for on what we choose. And I also really wanna point out that I worry about political, this feeling like a political politicization of, um, curriculum. I know we have choice and I think presidential speeches and court cases, depending on the types of which speeches that we would choose to teach, in which court cases, I think students and faculty could really feel that this is a way of politicizing the curriculum. So I just wanted to rate those two points at things that, again, I agree a lot with, um, Senator Johnson, that there's a lot to be really nervous about here with academic freedom and political politicization of curriculum. Thank you.

Hi, I am a resident of Salt Lake City, calling in that capacity. I'm also a member of the American Federation of Teachers, and I happen to be a member of the English department at Utah State University. And I am delighted to hear that Representative Ballard had such a great experience in her undergraduate writing class, and I'm willing to wager that part of the reason that she had such a good experience is that the instructor that she took her class with had the academic freedom to choose the subject matter that they were enthusiastic about and to design assignments according to their own expertise and their own knowledge of how to get really great papers out of students. And I don't understand how the state of Utah intruding into the classroom and into academic freedom is going to enhance the experience of students taking these all important first year classes. That these are the classes where they learn to learn and they learn to be enthusiastic about the process of learning. And I fear that this bill will just turn instructors into automatons teaching preordained curricula. So I'm encouraging the, um, committee to please vote against this. Thank you. Thank

Good afternoon everyone. My name is Joe Ur. I'm here today as a resident of Senator Wilson's own district in Logan, Utah. Though I'm incidentally a faculty member at Utah State University, I want to caution the council or the committee in adopting this as the expedited timeline is unrealistic, contrary to what we heard in the opening presentation and will likely lead to a poor implementation. It'd be very difficult to require instructors to change their curriculum for fall 2026, especially considering they must select textbooks now for the fall per Utah law. Furthermore, if required to adopt these changes prior to fall 26, since most faculties are on contract over the summer, they would have to hurriedly develop curriculum based on primary text they have no expertise in over the course of a few days before the semester begins. As a result, students progress toward learning objectives for these courses would almost certainly suffer. Thanks for your time and service.

Thank, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, you know, these we're talking about, uh, higher educations as paid for by taxpayers and, you know, other countries they make, uh, like Denmark and Sweden, they make their children or their high school graduates serve in the military for a year to teach 'em this type type of stuff. And we don't do that in the United States. So, I mean, it's a volunteer army right now and everything, but, you know, I think that's the least they could do is for patriotism to learn a little bit about where we came from and, 'cause you don't know where you're going if you don't. And I just think that, you know, we're not asking very much, this is one, like one class that they'd have to do this. And I just think, I wish I'd have been forced to learn more about it. 'cause, you know, I'd been better, better informed about it before I ran for this damn thing. But anyway, I just really appreciate this coming forward. And, uh, you know, like I said, other countries to teach them about their country, they put 'em in the army, in the, in the military. And I think this is not asking much at all. And so I think that, uh, I, I would just like to ask that we pass out house Bill two 19, first substitute with favorable recommendation.

Yeah, I just wanted to speak in favor of this bill. I think that some of the arguments I'm hearing, I don't see the problem because this bill explicitly states that the institution and instructor determine, uh, when the incorporation of these documents is appropriate, neutralizing the argument that the legislatures micromanaging the classroom. The other concern I heard was about implementation. And if that's a big concern, I think that could easily be fixed, uh, at a later point. But I, uh, I heartily support this bill.

Thank you so much. And I think that's why the implementation is all for Yui to establish that those rules and, uh, the experience that Ms. Earl shared with her students right now in higher ed is why this bill has come forward. Because I've had other parents, other students say that the content that they are, are reading and writing courses are, have, leave little to be desired right now. It is up to the professor, whatever their background, whatever their, their expertise, they can put whatever they want to in there, which is, you know, the, the liberties. But I, I think the liberty we have in our country needs to be understood and easily incorporated into these, this, um, into our higher ed writing, um, courses. And so I really appreciate your support and, and really for the next generation to know and understand what freedoms we have in our country with this touch point. Thank you. So, uh, come back to you to some,

Yeah, I would just like to say that, you know, everybody has the right for freedom of speech, but they need to know why they have that freedom of speech. 'cause most countries don't have that. And so I think that, uh, that's not asking very much of our citizens or our college graduates to know that. And so with that, I would ask that we pass this bill out favorably.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to circle

You Mr. Speaker. When uh, students are in higher ed institutions in Utah, there is a required writing course. And right now there's no parameters as to what that content may be. The professors, depending on their background and expertise, can choose whatever they want. Well, when, uh, the last class that I took at the university was actually one of my favorites. It was the writing class. Why was it my favorite? Because we studied original documents and, and Americans, significant speeches such as Martin Luther King Jr. From Birmingham Jail. Um, John F. Kennedy asked not what your country can do from for you Gettysburg address, bill of Rights, and so forth. So this higher ed amendment, uh, bill really asks that for writing courses. Um, at our higher ed institutions, not all of the documents, it still gives flexibility for the professors, but some of the documents need to include what are these original seminal documents and, uh, presidential speeches. And not every student in higher ed is Uintah, Utah High schools, not all of them are from Utah and certainly not all of them are from the United States. So I think being able to read and critically analyze writings associated with our country are very pertinent, especially with this year being the Americas two 50, um, and beyond. It's, uh, it's important for education to include actually reading and analyzing those important American documents.

Thank you Mr. President. We've long understood here in the legislature that civic understanding is not as strong as it needs to be in our society. And that too many children reach adulthood without ever engaging directly with the documents that define our constitutional system. House Bill two 19 addresses this problem by ensuring that Utah's general education writing courses in higher education incorporate seminal American texts our founding documents, landmark Supreme Court opinions, significant speeches from presidents and other leaders. So this bill doesn't, uh, dictate curriculum, but it just, it preserves full faculty discretion while setting an expectation that students should practice close reading, critical analysis and evidence-based argument using primary sources. It's a measured, responsible step to strengthen civic literacy and ensure that college graduates are not only strong writers, but informed citizens prepared to sustain the institutions on which we all rely. Thank you for the presentation.

Thank you Mr. President. Uh, under suspension of the rules, I move that first substitute house Bill two 19 pass.