H.B. 268 Towing Notice and Ownership Rights Modifications: transcript

Thank you Mr. Chair. Committee. Good to be here today. Um, sorry, lemme get my glasses on here. Okay. So if you'd like me to go really quick, I can do that. Uh, which is always good, uh, in my opinion, but, uh, I'll just say with, uh, hb uh, 2 68, change is nothing regarding towing. So what this bill does is simply adds a little bit of action if a towing company does not properly report. So, towing companies are required within two business days to send a certified letter to, uh, the vehicle owner or the lien holder when they tow a vehicle. And currently, there's no downside if you don't do that. So a a towing company could say, Hey, I, I sent you notification, or excuse me, if they sent notification and they got the wrong address because you moved or, and didn't change your address with the DMV, it doesn't affect any of that. Uh, but let's say they towed your vehicle and they didn't properly report, or they didn't properly send the notification and your car sat there for a week. So you had a 300, three $50 towing bill plus five days, five days of storage at $75 a day. So you got a $700 bill, and you say, Hey, um, I never got your certified letter. Well, sorry, uh, you gotta pay to get your car out. All this bill does says is if you don't properly notify, you can't collect your money. So it just, and those towing companies that are obeying the law, this is not even an issue. This is a small, small subset, but there were some instances where they said, well, you, I'm not gonna release your car until you give me the money. And they said, yeah, but you didn't notify. I said, well, okay. But, so this just gives 'em a little incentive to say, if you do not notify, you don't get to collect your towing fee. So that is the bill. Maybe Rusty Cannon is here, uh, to maybe add a little insight as well.

Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. Very briefly, rusty Cannon with the Utah Credit Union Association. This has been an issue. I could give you some context in the interest of time. I can keep it very brief. There has been some issues with, um, giving notice sometimes as long as 30 days without notice, and then, and then sending quite, quite a large bill to the lien holder. This simply just changes it, that as long as you send that certified mail notice, you can collect all that is due to you. Uh, but if you haven't, you, you can't. And so we feel it's a, it's a good measure and has, um, some fairness in it, and we hope you'd support it.

Yes, Sir. Okay. We'll come back

You. You, Mr. Chair. So I'm a little bit troubled by the, the person who has their car towed saying they didn't have notification. You know, they could have a change of address, there could be things that it seems like it gives them a little more power than they ought to have to the business fairness. Can you help me with that?

So, first of all, we're not addressing that at all. But if, let's say, um, if they said that they didn't receive your notification, if you have to send a certified letter, then the post office, uh, you know, has to deliver that, get a signature, and you get a receipt back. So it's very easy to prove that you notified properly. Now, let's say, uh, to the, to the, uh, to an individual, let's say they moved, but they didn't inform the DMV of their new address, then, I mean, it's, it's your responsibility as a, as a citizen, I guess, to report your new address. So be for this very instance,

Has to be within 10 days. Oh, Okay. Great. I I didn't know that. Yeah, so, and I'm guessing that many don't. I mean, especially if you take, like, in fact, just the other day, my son-in-law and my daughter had their car towed. Uh, now they knew it happened right then, so this didn't happen. But as a young college couple, they're moving frequently. I'm guessing that they don't inform of their move to the DMV. But, uh,

Uh, Mr. Chair, if I could and answer the good senator's question, the bill gives a rebuttable presumption to the tow as long as they have proof of sending that certified mail notice there in the clear and they can collect all that's due.

Okay. They just need the proof of sending it. Okay. Okay. Thank you for that.

Uh, Senator Musman, I move that we favorably recommend HB 2 68.

Yeah, I'll only just say that I had the same reservations to Senator Ipson, even though I'm the floor sponsor about that notification. And, and you know, this just puts a, in a circumstance where the, the towing company just needs to show proof that they sent the letter. If they sent it, then they can collect if they didn't, however, it changes things.

Um, so HB two 60 eight's a relatively simple bill. Um, we're not changing any code or anything involving towing. Um, what what we found is, uh, so when a vehicle is towed, um, the tow has 40, uh, two business days is what it is. Actually, I was gonna say 48 hours, but it's actually two business days to notify of the tow. And we're not changing anything with the notification. The problem has been that there have been a few bad players that didn't make this notification, and then they wanted to be reimbursed for their towing and some storage fees. Um, but they didn't necessarily follow the proper, um, the proper procedure of notification. So you have to send a certified letter. I think we even maybe added a couple other ways. I mean, there's, there's email addresses in some case, and if, uh, nothing changes on this. But if a person has moved and they get a letter in the mail, certified letter, but they've moved and they haven't notified, uh, um, of a change of address, then they will be in a little bit of a pickle when they try and get their vehicle. None of that has changed. All this has changed is we've added a provision that says, if you do not follow the law previously there was no downside, there was no penalty. Now we say, if you don't follow the procedures of notification, you simply will not be able to collect your towing and storage fees. Um, and I have, uh, rusty Cannon here with me to, uh, maybe add anything that I missed, but I think that kind of covers it. So, Uh, yes. Thank you, uh,

Mr. Chair Rusty Cannon with the Utah Credit Union Association. We appreciate you hearing this bill. Um, I know that is a Friday afternoon and, uh, talking past the sale can, can be an issue. So I'll be brief in my comments. Uh, just, just to summarize, uh, this, the good sponsor summed it up well, if you follow the law, this bill does nothing, um, uh, to you as a tow. If you don't follow the law. This just prevents you from profiting from that failure, as he mentioned, as long as you send that certified mail notice and you keep that proof of that, that is your, um, your safe harbor for this, and you can collect all the fees that are due to you. Uh, this just simply says, if, if you fail to do that, you, you wouldn't have that. Right. Uh, we did add for the lawyers in the room, we did add this. It is a rebuttable presumption. So you do have that also as a, as a benefit, um, to the, the tows as well. We just feel like this is needed because we have had some issues with this in the past, and we would appreciate your support in, in helping us, um, make sure this doesn't happen in the future. And That concludes our presentation.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, um, I've been told that it is a bad time to make your case on the side of the road. So I'm thinking if the guy's got my car, and he's saying like, and I'm telling him, Hey, you're breaking law. He says, no, I don't, I'm not breaking law. I want my money. You don't get me, don't get your car if you don't gimme the money. So how does this, how does this work in practice? When I go down there and I said, look, you haven't followed the law. I don't have to pay this much money. Give me my car right now. And he said, no, I followed the law to the letter, and if you don't give me the full amount, I'm not gonna give you the, the car. In other words, have we created some sort of a, a, a chasm that, that you are legally right, but practically wrong?

Uh, if I may, um, Mr. Chair, no. Thi this creates no new statute, no new loopholes, anything like this. Simply says, if you don't follow the statute of sending that certified notice to the lien holder within the two business days, you can't collect those fees from the lien holder.

So, and the lien holder could be a financial institution?

Yes. That's what we're thinking. Yes. Yes. Okay.

And so then, so this, so they're not down there trying to get their car out of impound. They're just, they're just going to the, to the towing company and said, you, you are not gonna get paid from us. We don't really care what happens to the car. I'm, I'm trying to think through the sequence of events here. Sure.

If I could, Mr. Chair, very briefly, a scenario that has happened, um, you're supposed to give notice within two business days. There have been situations where that notice shows up 30 days later and it accompanies a bill with, you know, for, for a good amount of money. Uh, but the notice was never given until then. But if this bill passes, as long as that notice was sent, even if it never got there, let's say the mail lost it, um, they are still safe harbored at that point. If, if you send it, you have that proof of that certified mail, you can collect all the fees due to you. That's the situation we're trying to address.

Yeah. If I may one just follow up point. So collect means what?

Send, send a brute down to the bank and say, you gotta pay me my money. That probably means small claims court, or they're trying to collect on a bill that they just sent you in the mail.

If you sent me a bill in the mail, I would just throw it in the garbage. Right. And just like, I'm gonna ban you. But h how, I'm just like, I'm missing the practicality of the bank just refusing to pay.

Well, the, the in, in our case, this would be a credit union. Yeah. Um, would, would, would pay the, the bill that is, that is due. The, the issue is the notice was never given, and therefore fees had had accumulated sometimes over a good amount of time. And the, the, the statute wasn't followed. They were supposed to have been notified in that example 28 days earlier.

Can't they just not pay?

Well, they, they like to pay what is, what is due to be paid. The issue is just notice was never given. Oh, I see.

They're, they're trying to follow the law. I see. Correct. Okay. Alright.

Uh, no substitute, no amendment right. I'll make a motion that we pass out house bill 2 68 with a favorable recommendation.

Okay. I would like to speak in favor of the motion. Um, mostly because I don't like it when tow companies do bad things. Uh, so this, if this helps somebody somewhere enforce that tow companies should be following the rules that we've given 'em. 'cause we've given them a lot, it's time for some thing to go the other way. Sorry, I'm speaking favor of the motion.

Yeah, I, I'd like to speak in favor of the motion as well. I mean, I, I think it makes sense that if they're required to give notice within two days, if they give notice later than that they're not, uh, entitled to storage for that long period of time. And I think to representative Thurston's questions earlier, um, in lines like 3 85 and kind of on it talks about that, uh, the lien holder or the owner could demand immediate release and possession of the vehicle if they, they can't prove that they actually sent that certified letter. Um, and there is that rebuttable presumption that you talked about. So I think it's more than just a bill shows up and it's like, well, we don't have to pay it. But in a lot of these cases, I assume from a credit union's perspective, someone's not paying their bill, their, their car payment. They send the notice to the tow company, go possess this car tow company goes and possesses the car. If they don't send out notice in two days, they can't say, well, we've been holding onto this car for 60 days and now you owe us, you know, x number of, of days of towing. That doesn't make any sense. So I, I think this is really fair policy and, uh, support it.

Yeah, I'm briefly, uh, most ho companies are doing great at this. This is just a very small number of these things that happened. There was just zero downside if they didn't do that. So it just adds a little bit of impetus to get them to send that letter out quickly.

Good policy. Representative Thompson and I were on a federalism trip to South Carolina and we parked where everyone was parking, and we were in there for about 10 minutes and we came out and they were just towing cars as fast as they could go. And they had a tiny little sign down on the ground behind where the cars park on the street that you could never see. And $300 later, that was a very expensive ice cream. So I think, I think we should have them follow the law. So support the motion.

Thank you. Speaker. Um, so HB 2 68 is a very simple bill. It changes really nothing as far as any of the notifications and those sorts of things having to do with towing. It just simply does this one thing. If you do not, uh, when, when a vehicle is towed, um, they have two business days to send a certified letter to the lien holder, the owner, or whatever the case is. Um, before this bill, there was really no penalty if you didn't. And so someone would come and say, well, you didn't send me notice. And they said, sorry, we're keeping your car, or whatever it is, they towed. Um, and there was really no recourse against this. All this says is if you do not send proper notice, you can't collect, you can't hold a lien against the car. So very simply, state, if you are obeying the rules, you're gonna get your toe reimbursed. Just, uh, like, like you should. If you do not follow the law, you will not be able to collect your money. And that is, uh, that concludes my presentation.

Thanks Mr. President Proti, um, uh, HB 2 68, um, strengths as notice requirements before enforcing towing costs. So, um, it makes clear that towing companies must provide proper legal notice to vehicles own vehicles owner or any lien holder before charging fees. If that notice isn't provided as required, the towing company will lose the ability to collect towing storage and impound fees. The notice from the towing company must be posted within two business days. The notice must be submitted to the last known address of, of the party. Um, so it, it doesn't, if the towing company submits a notice like they're supposed to under this bill, there'll be no problem in collecting and they have a ledger. And of course they have, they can easily track as to whether or not they sent the notice. They sent it by certified mail. But if they don't do that and they go in to pick up your vehicle and they sh they can't show that they sent the notification, then they can't collect on you and they have to return your vehicle. It's just simple notification. And this is applies for those instances where you may own a vehicle, get it towed and you, there's no way for you to know that got towed for days, even weeks and it's setting in storage without you ever knowing. So that's is what it does. Mr. President Proti, that concludes the representation. Thank you for that presentation.

Senator Musselman, Mr. President, the, the Bill's a simple notification bill. Uh, when a towing company tows a vehicle, they're required to give a notification to the owner of the vehicle. Um, and there's certain cases where that notification isn't given and it'd show up to get your vehicle after days and days and realizing is gone and, and you have quite the storage, storage bill. This doesn't require additional, um, addresses anything. It's the same as it was before. You simply go to the, send the notification to what's last known address with the DMV. Um, it just makes it so that when you, when you go and they have not sent the notification, then they cannot collect those fees. That's my presentation. Thank you.

Call the question, Mr. President.

Senator Baldry. Thank You Mr. President. Um, this one, uh, to be brief helps our, um,