H.B. 291 Security and Land Restriction Amendments: transcript

to the the P-L-C-A-A being enacted that their goal was to create law with litigation after failing to pass statutes in, uh, the US House and Senate. As Congress noted in its formal findings, these lawsuits attempted to impose liability for harm solely caused by the criminal or unlawful use of firearms by a third party, a standard inconsistent with American law. It would be like a akin to suing Ford because you crashed your car into a group of people, even on purpose or on accident. Uh, public luc nuisance lawsuits were a common tactic prior to the P-L-C-A-A. Uh, they argued that the mere existence of lawful firearms constituted a public nuisance. Even when sellers complied with all the laws. Courts have allowed some cases to proceed to costly discovery, despite no proof of illegal conduct, uh, resulting in massive legal expenses. So what HB two 14 actually does is it preserves all legitimate claims involving defective products, illegal sales, negligent entrustment or knowingly statutory violations. It narrows the negligent marketing claims to require a specific statutory violation, direct targeting of prohibited users, or a clear causal link to harm. Um, Utah's fiscal analysis in this shows no cost to taxpayers and a reduction in unnecessary regulatory burden. Um, so we would urge, um, it, its passage. It does not in any way, way weaken public safety. It actually strengthens the rule of law by ensuring liability is based on conduct on causation and responsibility, not on the action of criminals beyond the seller's control. Uh, we'd ask for your support of HB two 14. Thank you.

Thank you. I, I want to get, I wanna ask the sponsor again on this. I appreciate the paradigm if there's a concern about things in society, but I I, I fail to see the connection in, in some of those arguments that are imposing in, in, in opposition to this. I, I, I recognize with cigarettes, for example, it's a product that someone is using to harm themselves, but the argument that we're, we're gonna be responsible for actions, criminal actions in a non-criminal way. By the way, it's not, not criminal, but to make this connection, I just can't go there. I we, this would lead down to car manufacturers being responsible for any criminal use of a car or, or anything. Is that, am I seeing this differently than what you're seeing? It, it, it to, to it really looks like this. What it does is it, it clears out the courts to deal with appropriate causes of action and not the ility that we face in seeking to legislate in a different lane that legislation's meant to take place. That, that's how I've seen it. Am I,

Yeah. I mean, in my opinion, it wouldn't be any different. Like, uh, he mentioned about the vehicle being used to drive into a crowded people. I mean, the, it's not unless the accelerator malfunctioned their brakes didn't work, but even then, you just have to maintain that sort of stuff. And so even at that, I just think that, uh, holding a manufacturer liable for a product that's misused is not Vernal to the manufacturer for the product

Chair. I, I, I, I appreciate that and I, I respect genuinely respect the, the, the, the, the opportunity and the blessing to have different points of view and see it differently. I just, just wanted to check. I I am ready to make a motion if you're ready for

Thank you. I I I would move house Bill two 14. First substitute firearms liability amendments.

And I'm just gonna really quick, my interns made a great presentation. Just gonna see if I can get it to work. Do I just push start, Mary? Okay. There you go. Alright. Okay. Colleagues, I appreciate your patience and I think this is my first time presenting to this committee, so I'm pretty excited about. It's my seventh session. I finally managed to get into the Great Brooks Committee, so You are in the best committee. I know. I know. Uh, anyways, and I have, joining me today, captain Jensen with the Department of Public Safety. Uh, so, uh, colleagues, HB 2 91 is a follow up to a lot of the good work that we've already done, and I wanna highlight some of that. As many of you know, several years ago we started this process in 2023, uh, we passed HB 180 6 and this prohibited restricted foreign entities, which would include Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China from acquiring land in Utah. And our law was unique then other states because it was retroactive in that we said it's for existing ownership and future ownership. Uh, so we got to work on that and started working closely with Department of Public Safety on that. Uh, and in 2024, we beefed this up quite a bit and making sure that they would have a list available of those restricted foreign entities and their subsidiaries. Because what we've seen is the Chinese Communist Party will start a shell company and then another shell company in the us and they will transfer money through that to then go buy a big swaths of land. And I'm sure most of you're familiar with the stories we've seen over the past three to four years of them particularly being interested in land next to our military installations and military assets. And, uh, Utah, um, was not left outta that. We had some concerning properties that were owned, and it's something that DPS has been working on very closely. So we, we created this process, so they had a, a chance to divest. Um, but if they chose not to divest, then the state was going to confiscate that land back and we would sell it. Uh, as we've worked through this process, it's really exciting of the estimated roughly 38,000 acres zone by CCP entities. So far, we anticipate that about 35,000 acres have been divested while there are other properties that have been, uh, there are active investigations on. Um, and so we've continued to work through this and on this. So because we've learned some things, um, this bill is just doing a couple other things to strengthen our law. Uh, right now, a county recorder can flag suspicious land transactions. The Department of Public Safety actually hosts annual trainings, and it's been really effective. In fact, it's how we stopped a Chinese Communist Party company from purchasing land right next to the Provo Airport. So we are doing a great job being proactive on that end. Um, but some things that we're tweaking in this bill is closing some of the loopholes and making sure that, uh, we are lowering the ownership percentage from 51% to 25%. So that's gonna be significant change that will be helpful. And, uh, it has, the Department of Public Safety will be notifying those suspected entities, um, when it doesn't, uh, impede an investigation. And it gives them 30 days to provide proof otherwise that they're not a restricted for an entity. Um, if after that letter is sent and there's no response and they're still outta compliance with the law, we are having a $500 fine a day for every day they're outta compliance. And then at some point, the state will take and confiscate the land and sell it. So, uh, we're engaging the attorney's general's office to work closely with DPS on this to make sure that we're getting these bad actors out of our state quicker and sooner. And I'll just, I'll have, uh, captain Jensen go and add some of his thoughts as well.

Yeah, thank you. Committee, uh, members. My name's Tanner Jensen. Um, I'm here representing the Department of Public Safety. Um, and I'm here to, uh, to say that, uh, express our gratitude to Representative Pucci for working with us and, and keeping us, uh, engaged in this, uh, legislation, especially with House Bill 2 91. Um, and some of the updates with that bill. Uh, this is a bill, uh, a multi-year bill that we've been working with the RES representative on. And we find it to be, uh, highly important to public safety and the security of our state here. Um, we've, I, we've worked closely with, with her and her office to identify, uh, some of the security gaps that we've, we've seen with when it comes to foreign land purchase, um, and, and stopping bad nation state actors from getting a foothold, uh, in our state of some of our land, um, and abusing, uh, that land for nefarious reasons. Um, this bill is important because it does provide teeth, uh, for our department to continue to investigate, uh, these cases. It clarifies the process for DPS to investigate suspicious land deals, uh, uh, by authorizing the department to issue formal inquiries, which we find to be very beneficial, uh, in our investigations to make sure we can get to the bottom of why these entities have those foreign connections. And ultimately, this, this bill's about public safety, uh, lowering the la the, uh, the ownership threshold for restricted entities. We're ensuring that those with adversarial ties cannot control and, uh, strategic parcels near military bases, uh, airports, water infrastructure, um, and then find ways to exploit, uh, our economy through inter intellectual property theft, um, and a monopoly on our land. Um, and, uh, gather intelligence for their, for their, uh, foreign governments. Thank you.

Does.

I'm Willis Lafe from UA Basin, again, uh, UN County. Uh, I appreciate this bill and what it does. I would like to see it, uh, go farther on than the 20%. Um, I mean, if they want a home or an apartment or something like that. But the problem that we're really seeing is large tracks of land, especially agriculture. We see it all the time. And, uh, that should be, it should be none, none of none of that. And, uh, some, some pretty serious ramifications for those involved with foreign countries doing that. Uh, 500 bucks just doesn't cut it. Thank you.

Hello, Erin Wynn with the Utah Office of the Attorney General. I just wanna thank the sponsor for her work on this. We've been involved for several years with this process. Um, and make no mistake, the landscape here has shifted, right? This is something that we are seeing at an increasing rate, and I think that giving DPS the tools to do their job more effectively, making sure that we have the ability, um, to do things legally, but also do things in a way that, uh, protects the United States and protects the state of Utah, is only going to, um, further our interests in this space. So we stand and support and we ask that you consider supporting as well. Thank you for being here. Thanks for your comments.

Thank you Mr. Chair. I'd like to move that we recommend favorably. There is an amendment. Oh, We have an amendment. We the amendment. Thank you. Sorry.

Like, I'd love to move the amendment, Mr. Chair. I always do that. You're good. I appreciate it. Amendment number one. Amendment number one. Uh, motions in order. Do I speak to it?

Thank you. I appreciate that.

All right. I would like to move that we favorably recommend House Bill 2 91, security, security and land restriction amendments As amended. As

would you like to Some, yeah, Just really quick, and I appreciate the public comment. I appreciate Captain Jensen, who his team has been the one, the boots on the ground on this. Uh, in 2020 when we started this process, Utah had the fourth largest agricultural land holding by the Chinese Communist Party in the country. And we've made major inroads and headway on this policy with having multiple properties divested. I wanna clarify, the fine is just in place until we actually sell that property. So we are kicking them out of Utah, and hopefully we have made a very strong show that Utah is not for sell, uh, particularly by our restricted foreign entities. And more and more national security is becoming an issue of states. As we see more and more gridlock back in dc uh, it's becoming up to us and a responsibility we need to have to defend not only our military assets, our water, our agriculture land, but also our citizens. So I would appreciate the committee's support on the bill. Thank

Madam Reading Clerk House Bill 2 91, security and land restriction amendments by Representative Pucci. This bill was served in natural Resources, agriculture, and Environment with the vote 9 0 5

Representative per Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Colleagues. Uh, I'm very excited about this Bill. As many of you know, we've been working as a legislature, uh, for the past three to four years in making sure that we are protecting our agriculture land, our state, our security, and working to prohibit restricted foreign entities and foreign adversaries like the Chinese Communist Party from owning land in Utah. Since we've been working on this, and especially after last year's bill, we have made major strides in our goal of getting countries like China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran out of our state. We have had over 35,000 acres divested at this point. And because of the proactivity in this bill and the county recorder training that is required, uh, we were able to stop a Chinese Communist party company from purchasing land right by the Provo Airport. So the policy is working. We've also learned a lot through this process, which is why we have this bill that's just making some te tweaks that I have worked on in collaboration with the Department of Public Safety as well as the Attorney General. And so some of those changes are, it's closing some loopholes that we found, uh, in our law by lowering the ownership threshold. Right now, it sits at 51% to be considered a shell company and a subsidiary of say, like the Chinese Communist Party. But this bill is lowering that restricted foreign entity status to 25% ownership to make sure we're closing the gap. This has been very much a game of Whack-a-mole because as we've tightened and tweaked our law, the CCP will shift their policy and create another shell company and find a way to purchase land. Uh, it imp it improves the enforcement process and really tries to expedite that process, uh, by requiring DPS now to notify those entities that they have been identified as one of these properties and they have 30 days to provide proof. They're not restricted. If they do not, a fine is in place. And then the state works towards a confiscation process where the land would be confiscated and the money that is sold would be for return back to the general fund. Uh, it really helps clarify that accountability and it really engages the Attorney General's office and DFCM when selling those prohibited land interests. So this and is important, bill colleagues. Uh, this is not theoretical. We are seeing this in our own state, and a lot of times we think of Utah as this small town state where we know everyone, we love everyone, and that's great, but we also have to be aware of the threats and foreign adversaries who would do us harm. And when it comes to our food supply, when it comes to our military installations and critical infrastructure, we need to be vigilant in making sure we know who is in our backyard. Uh, it's important to note that the aerospace and defense industry actually makes up 20% of Utah's GDP Hill Air Force Base is still the single largest, uh, site employer in Utah with over 22,000 employees and the nation's top defense. Prime companies employ tens of thousands of people in Utah, which is phenomenal in terms of opportunities for our citizens, but also makes us a high target when it comes to bad actors like the Chinese Communist Party. So, uh, this bill should be the final bow on a series of bills that helps us really give the tools that the Department of Public Safety and the Attorney General's office needs to ensure that our land restrictions are applied and that the Chinese Communist Party does not own land in our state. And that's the bill.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanna rise in support of this bill and to commend the sponsor for her courage to run this series of bills. It's so important, the security of our, our state, and, uh, I just encourage you, everyone to take this very seriously. This is not a bill that's, uh, been prepared whether a problem doesn't or hasn't existed, and so it is important that we support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. And colleagues, I appreciate so many of you who have co-sponsored legislation in the past and worked with this. I appreciate the good comments from the general who has so much experience in this area. And, uh, I'll also just thank the Department of Public Safety and Sac specifically who has been working really closely with me on this issue. And I think we should all be excited to see a policy that's working. We don't always get to see that, but also know we're almost done with that work ahead of us, and this bill will help us finish that off. So I appreciate the, the support of this body.

Senator Mikel. Thank You Mr. President. Um, this is, this is another bill that we have run. Um, the concern is, is allowing our foreign adversaries to purchase ground in the state of Utah. Um, representative Perche has been working on this for quite some time, and I've had a chance to carry some of these bills. Um, if, if you remember last week we saw that there was some property that was divested, um, out in Illa County and that that was significant. I think our law has been working very well, but we're changing, we're changing some of those percentages to make sure we capture more folks, um, that that could be adversaries to our country. And when I say adversaries, those are listed in the National Defense Authorization Act and that, that is how we determine that. But what we do in this bill is we actually lower the percentage of ownership to capture even more. We're lowering that to 25%. Um, this bill also has a process where our Department of Public Safety shall send a letter to the entity. Um, if we, if they're suspected of being a restricted foreign entity. Again, restricted foreign entity is defined in the National Defense Authorization Act. Uh, we involve our division of Facilities Construction Management when conducting this sale of a restricted entity. But I think the process is, is working, we we're continuing to be successful and making sure that some of those, those entities that we're concerned about are divesting ground. And that's what this bill does. It, it's complimentary to what we've done in the past. We're just taking some additional steps with that. I'm open for questions.

Thank you, Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield?

Senator Al, you yield? Yes.

Thank you. I am wondering if there is a process by which an entity who says that they are not controlled at 25% or more, uh, by one of these foreign, um, uh, governments, if there is a process that they can, um, uh, argue that

Yeah, and and you'll see even in the short title line 18, that if the entity doesn't respond to the letter from the department, the department may impose a fine. So they're, they're gonna get an opportunity to do that. They're, they're actually gonna receive a letter and, and that's gonna come through the Department of Public Safety. They're gonna coordinate with the Attorney General's office, and you'll see just in the short title, provide the entity to which the department sends the letter, shall provide evidence demonstrating the entity is not a restricted foreign entity within 30 days. So they have an opportunity to, to challenge that. But with this bill, and, and that was similar to the process before, what this bill does is it drops that drops that percentage from 51% and drops it down to 25%.

Senator. Thank you, Mr. President. Um, a actually, it's not a question, it's just more of a statement. I know that there are some concerns from my community about, uh, laws such as this that might, um, impact, uh, community members, um, which is different from foreign governments. But, uh, I am, uh, just going to continue to, to look at this and talk with the sponsor to make sure that those concerns are, um, alleviated, uh, in this, this, uh, bill. Thank you.

Yeah, just, just in some, I I really, this has been an, an issue that's been a problem across our nation, and I think Utah has really led out on this issue. And I'm, I'm really proud, proud that of the work that we've, we've done here. But I think we're taking these additional steps and, and we've done this for several, several years now. And, and we, we just recently saw that divestment out in Twila County, and I think it's important to recognize that some of what we're doing is working, but we're gonna continue to work at it. With that Mr. President, I would move that this bill be read for the third time. Thank

Thank you. Personal privilege Mr. President.

Thank you Mr. President. Um, this is, this is a great bill. It's designed to protect our land, water, and infrastructure, um, against foreign adversaries. Our foreign adversaries are de defined under the National Defense Authorization Act. Um, we've had a, we've had a lot of concern, not just in the state of Utah, but in our country about some of our foreign adversaries buying, buying properties, land, water, infrastructure near our critical critical infrastructure, critical to our security, critical to the United States and the state of Utah. Um, this bill attempts to address that concern. This is a series of bills that we've been working, working on. And what what this does is it'll create a, a public list of foreign restricted foreign entities maintained by DPS. Um, county recorders can flag suspicious land transactions daily fines for failure to respond to DPS would happen. Land must be alienated within one year after ownership is prohibited. And knowingly purchasing land on behalf of restricted foreign entity remains a third degree felony. That's what, that's what the bill does. I think we've had some success. You've seen some, some foreign, some foreign entities divest their interest in the state of Utah. I think we're doing a good job. This just takes a one step further and rather than 51% ownership at drops it to 25%. With that, I'm open for questions.

You. I'd move that this bill pass.