H.B. 298 School Design Amendments: transcript

House Education Committee, Feb 4, 2026

1. Chair Walter (presiding)2:39:56

   No, thank you representative. All right. We have, um, we're gonna try and do one more agenda item today. I am aware of the We're at the time. Uh, thank you. We have, uh, Representative Christofferson.

2. Chair Walter (presiding)2:40:10

   We're here to, we're we're, uh, hearing House Bill 2 98 school design amendments. Um, I'll just note to the committee members, there is an amendment online. Thank you for your patience, Representative Christofferson. We've had a full agenda today. We've had lots of discussion, lots of public comment, high level of engagement on to school facilities.

3. Rep. Kay J. Christofferson2:40:30

   Thank you chair and committee. Somebody left their glasses on the table here. So anyway, uh, can I, uh, just explain this amendment as I discussed the bill? Sorry, what? Can I just explain the amendment well as I discussed the Oh yeah, you, you, if you'd like to speak to the amend, that'd be great. Okay. So what this, what, uh, instigated this, uh, discussion is, I had some people call me and say, you know, we're building these schools, uh, I'm in the business and I can see that we could do these a lot cheaper. And, uh, and then I've had other people say, why are we spending so much on these schools? And, you know, we do have nice schools and I like 'em in that. But, uh, there are ways to, to build these schools cheaper. I believe. Uh, you see a lot of people who have businesses that are, you know, nationwide or, or have a chain chain stores. And what they do is they build similar stores. They'll adapt 'em to the area, but they use kind of the base plan or the, um, uh, a standard plan. And then they'll have architects adjust it depending on the color or the landscape. And so what I wanted to do is say, let's do the same thing with our education. So what this bill does is says, uh, that ask the, uh, us BE to coordinate this. And so when schools are built, if, if they can get possession of those plans to create a library where they can put different plans in there, depending on if it's a high school or junior high or elementary or whatever, and maybe have a few of these that LEAs the different school districts can say, I wanna, I wanna look at this and maybe use your plan as a base and, and adjust it and save me some costs. And, and, uh, and then, you know, they don't have to, they don't want to, if they, if they LEAs want to go do their own design and spend the money, they can do that. But this is just a way to say, um, if you need some resources, this, the state school board is gathering those that you can use. And the amendment just says, you know, I, I'm trying to save money. So I didn't wanna have a big fiscal and whole. So the amendment just says, these school, the state school board can, can see if in the, uh, negotiations for the contracts, if they can get those plans and own them. So I'm not requiring that in this. And that's what the amendment does. But basically it outlines how to do that. And then the bottom part of the bill just says, you know, we need some statistics. We need to know what, uh, what these schools cost. We wanna, uh, keep track of it and, uh, and have it on the website so that, uh, that information's available so we can make better decisions. So with that, I'll answer any questions. Alright.

4. Chair Walter (presiding)2:43:43

   Thank you to the committee for clarifying questions. All right. I have a couple of lights, so we'll go to Representative MacPherson.

5. Rep. Matt MacPherson2:43:49

   Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, so I guess my question is, um, the, the goal of this is obviously to save money. Do we, are we able to do this? Like have we looked at whether or not this, the, the state board discuss whether or not they, they can do this? Uh, is this necessary to be done in the statute? I, I guess just Asking. They can do it. They haven't done it. This is, you know, I would be happy if they said, here's the plan and we're gonna do it. I wouldn't need the bill. This is just to kind of motivate things to happen. And I've tried to leave it very open so that I'm not mandating anything, but just to kind of inspire them to get going on a, on a program to save money that way. Thank you. And I, I appreciate the effort on this because this is a, a matter of major concern when it comes to the difference in cost between, um, buildings, the school buildings built in different areas. So thank you.

6. Chair Walter (presiding)2:44:43

   Alright, thank you. We'll go to Representative Peck.

7. Rep. Nicholeen P. Peck2:44:45

   Thank you Mr. Chair. Uh, so it looks like that the LEA can use the pool of designs if they want to, but you, like you said, you're leaving it open to them. But I'm wondering, do we have any concern? I like the problem you're trying to solve here too, by the way. Um, do we have any concern that there is going to be a pool of designs and people still want their own fresh monster? Yeah.

8. Rep. Kay J. Christofferson2:45:13

   And that's up to them. I didn't, didn't wanna be that prescriptive and take that away from the LEAs. If they wanna do that and, and, uh, talk to their citizens about bonding and whatever, then I'll let them do that. But

9. Rep. Nicholeen P. Peck2:45:26speaker not certain

   It has ongoing funding. That's why I was like, you know, is there a time where we are gonna look at it and say, well, I I think the no one's taken the plan, the funding is Because before I had shall, and now I said May, if they can work it out, they don't have to spend that. I see. So it should reduce the fiscal note.

10. Chair Walter (presiding)2:45:44

    Thank you. Alright. Thank you to Representative Welton.

11. Rep. Doug Welton2:45:49

    Thank you Mr. Chair. I, I guess my question is, is there not already a pool of school designs because Maple Mountain, Salem Hills, Stansberry, Illa, they're all the same floor plan. Corner Canyon, west Lake, like, like they're all the same floor plan. Uh, Payson, Spanish Fork, Springville Roosevelt, or one of those, they're all the same floor plan. It, it seems like we're already doing this. Yeah, yeah. And some school districts are and I appreciate them doing that. This is just to say, uh, state school board, why don't you do the similar thing and the same thing and bring it up to where everybody can use it. All of the LEAs in including, you know, some of the small ones that just have a tough time affording, uh, designs for, they might do one school every 10 years.

12. Chair Walter (presiding)2:46:38

    Okay. Alright. Thank you Representative Miller.

13. Rep. Tracy Miller2:46:44

    Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. So, um, um, like Representative Walton said this is happening already, even across districts, you know, people are, someone goes to build a school and they visit another district and share and get design ideas. Um, is, does it have to be housed the state board level? Like is there anything that's preventing districts from sharing designs with each other right now?

14. Rep. Kay J. Christofferson2:47:08

    Nothing. This is just trying to encourage that to happen faster so they can do it right now. And I wish they would and I, I mean some are, but I'd like to just help everybody do it.

15. Chair Walter (presiding)2:47:20

    Thank you. Thank you Representative Miller. Um, Representative Moss. We still have more lights representative.

16. Rep. Carol S. Moss2:47:27

    Oh, thank you. I'll try to be fast. No, You're doing great. Thank you. Well, when I look at the highlighted part line 13, it says authorizes school districts and charter schools to select designs from the library. And I thought we, you said it wasn't mandatory.

17. Rep. Kay J. Christofferson2:47:42

    They don't have to select from designs. They can still do Their, well, we don't have a library yet and so this is just saying when we do get that library, any of the LEAs can use it. Okay.

18. Rep. Carol S. Moss2:47:52

    What I, I just wanna point out that the two high schools in my area, skyline and Olympus, Olympus build a new school about six, seven years ago. And Skyline's still building one even though they're in it, but they're quite different. And one of them is the earthquake issues that Olympus is near a fault and it also takes into account where they're located to get the views of the mountains and Mount Olympus and all the, those things that really make it spectacular for community use and everything. So I, um, you know, I'd hate to just see, uh, them have to choose from a kind of kick cutty cookie cutter, um, series of design. So

19. Rep. Kay J. Christofferson2:48:33

    Yeah. And they don't have to, they can keep doing what they're doing if they want. Okay. This is just giving them a resource. Alright. Okay.

20. Chair Walter (presiding)2:48:39

    Thank you. Thank you. Representative Moss. Representative Thompson.

21. Rep. Jason B. Thompson2:48:43

    Thank you Mr. Chair. So this may not even be applicable to this bill, but I've, I've heard multiple occasions of school districts building schools with current school inventory sitting there, or schools, multiple schools sitting at 40% occupancy. So this probably isn't the bill to address that, but, um, has there been any, given any consideration that, that in a case where schools have x number of schools that are only so much occupied, that they have to do a study to see if what they currently have in their inventory could be usable to meet the needs of what they would be building another school for, um, before they would go and make a selection from? I I just think it's something that we should consider. I've heard horror stories and it, it is just extraordinarily frustrating to have $250 million schools being built with a bunch of other schools sitting half empty.

22. Rep. Kay J. Christofferson2:49:34

    Yeah. The, uh, I think that should happen. And I think in many places it does happen, but this bill doesn't deal with that.

23. Chair Walter (presiding)2:49:43

    That's All. Alright, thank you. I see no more. I see no more questions from the members of the committee. We'll go to the public. Is there any members of the public here to speak to this issue? 1, 2, 3. Why don't you come on up. Uh, please state your name, tell us who you represent, make sure you sign in and I'm gonna keep my timer going. So we'll, we've been using one minute. We're gonna continue with one minute.

24. Joylin Lincoln, Alpine School Board Member2:50:04

    My name is Jaylen Lincoln and I serve on the Alpine School Board and the newly created Lake Mountain School board, which when we open, will be the fastest growing school district in the state at a thousand students per year. But today I am speaking on behalf of myself. I appreciate the goal of responsible steward stewardship of public dollars. We all want schools built efficiently and safely. However, this bill goes too far in centralizing decisions that are best made locally. School facilities are not one size fits all. Districts and charter schools serve very different communities, enrollment patterns, instructional models, and students' needs. Estate mandate, manage design, library, um, and cost benchmarks while described as optional, will inevitably become the standard by which local decisions are judged, even when customization is educationally necessary. Requiring competitive building for architect fees, prioritizes cost over quality for building meant to serve students for decades. That approach often leads to higher long-term costs through design limitations, change orders, and reduced, um, adapt, adapt adaptability. Um, additionally mandating state ownership and submissions of school designs discourages innovation for these reasons by respectively. Thank your remarks. Ask that you say no.

25. Chair Walter (presiding)2:51:17

    All right. Thank you very much.

26. Lexi Cunningham, Utah School Superintendents Association and Utah School Boards Association2:51:23

    Thank you Mr. Chair. Members of the committee, Lexi Cunningham, representing USSA and USBA. We appreciate the work that, um, the representative has done. We are currently opposed to this bill, but we do appreciate the, the work that has gone into this. And the substitute. One thing that is, is concerning for us is at the bottom part of the bill, there are some reporting requirements that, um, are, are in the bill for reporting. There's a, another building bill that is being worked on in the Senate that, um, has some of these same reporting requirements. The other, the Senate bill does not have the architect, but some of these other reporting requirements and those reporting requirements would be moving to D-F-C-M-M. So if it's possible to have some coordination between this bill and the Senate bill, I think that would be helpful. So there's not confusion. Thank you. Thank you.

27. Shawn Benjamin, Utah Chapter of the American Institute of Architects2:52:19

    Thank you. My name is Sean Benjamin. Uh, I represent the American Institute of Architects Utah Chapter. I'm on the b uh, board of Directors and the Government Affairs Committee as well. Uh, I will like to express appreciation for an opportunity. Uh, we did have to meet with Representative Christofferson and, uh, we appreciate the opportunity to, uh, uh, in good faith meet again and, and discuss some of the nuances of this bill. Uh, that said, uh, as, as a an architect organization, we do have, um, some items of concern that, that we think could, uh, be addressed to improve the bill. Um, previously mentioned, uh, some additional coordination with other legislation might be important. Um, qualifications based selection, um, tied to a fee selection process is probably outside of the procurement, um, authority that, that's currently in place with the state. Uh, we're not opposed to the idea of a library use, but devil's in the details. We wanna make sure that, um, those negotiating tools, uh, that are spoken of or put in place and, and nailed out. We do have issues with potential copyright and IP concerns and then also the standards developments. We just wanna make sure that, um, the right, uh, stakeholders are a part of that process.

28. Chair Walter (presiding)2:53:30

    Thank you. Thank you. Ready to know. Any others to comment on this bill? Alright, that concludes our public comment. Uh, we'll move to the Committee for action items.

29. Chair Walter (presiding)2:53:43

    Alright, Representative Thompson, Uh, do we have a substitute on This? There's an amendment an An amendment. Um, so I move that we, uh, move amendment one. Is it, Uh, a motion is in order. Uh, the motion is to adopt the first amendment to house bill 2 98 school design amendments. Would you like to speak to that? Uh, I'll waive. Alright. Uh, representative, I do have a, um, a light from Representative MacPherson. Would you like to speak to the

30. Rep. Matt MacPherson2:54:12

    motion to adopt the amendment? Yeah, if I, If I could just briefly, um, uh, the sponsor had mentioned that the amendment was seeking to reduce costs. Is this supposed to reduce the fiscal note or just the cost of the amendment in particular, or to reduce the cost to LEAs over time? That's what I was trying to figure out. Uh, it should reduce the cost of the, uh, fiscal note a lot because it's not requiring them to go buy every plan. It's just saying if you can get the plans put in the library. Okay. Thank you. Alright, thank you.

31. Chair Walter (presiding)2:54:48

    I have no more, uh, uh, questions for comments from the committee back to the, uh, sponsor regarding the amendment. Uh, I'll waive and to the maker of the motion, I'll waive. Alright. The motion before is just to adopt the first amendment to house Bill 2 98 school design amendments. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? That passes unanimously. Uh, back to the bill

32. Rep. Jason B. Thompson2:55:10

    as amended Representative Thompson. Yeah, I, uh, move that we, um, I think we recommend HB 2 98 as amended to the full house.

33. Chair Walter (presiding)2:55:19

    All right. We have a motion to recommend house bill 2 92 98 school design amendments as amendment, uh, as amended. Would you like to speak to that motion? I'll Waive. Alright. Um, I do have a quest, uh, comment. Uh, Representative Welton, would you like to speak to that motion?

34. Rep. Doug Welton2:55:33

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to explain my vote. I'm gonna be voting no on this bill. Uh, this is already happening in practice. I don't see that this is a, a substantive change to policy or general practice right now. And with so many bills on the board that I think have more substantive, like we're trying to get through bills and not pass as many bills, I just think for me there are bills that are, this doesn't do enough for me to put it on the board, so I'll be a no vote.

35. Chair Walter (presiding)2:56:01

    Alright, thank you. Um,

36. Unknown speaker2:56:05speaker not certain

    Representative Christofferson, I'm appreciate the efforts to address, uh, specifically trying to address cost, uh, scope of facilities. Um, I think one of our big issues when we talk about scope is the expanding cost of facilities, uh, accommodating athletics. Um, I think you're trying to address efficiency, uh, create efficiencies. Um, also the copyright and, uh, trademark issues, the around the intele intellectual property. And I appreciate that. Um, I just wanna also note I'm gonna be a no on this. Um, right now I don't think the state board is equipped to handle this assignment that we're trying to give to them. Uh, they already have a database, uh, of all the school facilities, but it's not working. Um, we're trying to collect all this data, but it's not standardized. And so we can go look through the data, but we can't do any effective comparisons because it's just that that database isn't working. And so I'm concerned that we're gonna be giving them an additional responsibility in this space without a solution to actually improve the outcome. Um, I think there's also some, uh, scenarios where, uh, we we're, we're, we don't have accommodations. I think for some of our unique spaces, for example, we have some of our LEAs that use intermediate schools versus a middle school or an elementary school, um, charter schools. Um, and I, I think there is some concern about, uh, how we navigate, um, uh, uh, the the intellectual property dynamics. Although I do think as a matter of principle, the state should own those, uh, the right to use those, reuse those plans. So I'm just gonna make that comment. Um, I'm gonna go back to you as the, uh, sponsor and then we'll go back to the maker of the motion.

37. Rep. Kay J. Christofferson2:57:35

    Yeah. Thank you. You know, we can sit there and talk about the cost of schools and we don't do anything about it. Uh, I think we need to really just say, uh, let's encourage the school district to do what they can and to share those plans with everybody in the state. Um, we, um, you know, the comment was made that this is gonna tie the hands of the LEAs and we're gonna have same kind of schools and that, and no, this is providing a resource that I think the, uh, USBE should be doing already to help cut the cost of these schools. And, uh, and they can do it, uh, uh, at their will. We're not gonna, we're not saying that you have to use this library, this resource. It's up to you. If it helps you in your district, great. But you don't have to use it if you don't want to. And you can do, uh, other things in your district. But I think there's some, you know, we need to encourage the state school board to move forward with plans to, to tackle this problem.

38. Chair Walter (presiding)2:58:42

    Thank you. Alright. Thank you to the spon, uh, to the maker of the motion. Yeah. I'll waive. All right.

39. Chair Walter (presiding)2:58:48

    The motion before us is to recommend favorably house Bill 2 98 school design amendments as amended. We'll do a roll call, vote, uh, to you to Isha Representatives.

40. Chair Walter (presiding)2:59:01

    Er, no Eliason, no. Hayes, no. Libe. Yes. McPherson? No. Millard, no Moss, no. Peck? Yes. Thompson? Yes. Welton? No. Vice chair Defay? Yes. Chair Walter. No Motions. Eight to four. Motion fails. Eight to four. Four eight. Four to eight. Four to eight. Thank you. I appreciate that clarification with, uh, representative er. Um, I'm sorry, Peck. Thank you. Was Representative Lisonbee Peck, Thompson and Defay voting? Uh, yes. Uh, thank you. All right. Thank you.

41. Chair Walter (presiding)2:59:53

    Um, do we have Senator Fillmore Just walked down. Just Walked out. He has left the building. Ur Well, that's where we're at. That's what we're left with without Senator Fillmore. So, uh, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn from Representative MacPherson. That motion is in order. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. We're officially adjourned. Thank you to the committee. That was a large amount of business today.