H.B. 312 School Curriculum and Standards Modifications: transcript

Yes. Um, My, oh, there it is. Okay. Um, I'm talking, I'm speaking to the second sub, um, also with the amendment one. And I would say that this has been really a committee effort, which I think was the goal when, um, this bill was held earlier. Um, so this is, this bill has been transferred, um, in my name. And then I, um, have kept some of the other representatives, um, stuff in it. And then it has mine and then also Representative Welton. And so we definitely wanted to make this so since there were so many bills, a way to condense. And, um, I would say, and I think it's actually great that former representative LaVar Christiansen is here because he was the, um, author of our civics, um, in our statute right now. And I wanted to start with a quote that I think you guys might all have in your books on, on, uh, page two, but said, president George Washington said that there is no more duty more pressing to a legislature than to support a plan for communicating the science of government to our youth who are the future guardians of the liberty of this country. And, um, I have been thinking for a long time about the civics that we teach in school and how our kids learn about their government. And I know that that's something that Representative Welton has worked on a lot as well. He had a, a really great bill last year, 3 81, and he will talk about, um, that as well. But something I've been trying to figure out is, you know, we, we have these different course subjects and we only teach and test with math and English, but we don't really know, um, all that our kids are learning in history. And so I've been trying to figure out a way that we could actually do that and without adding any more time into the, into the school day, because you, a lot of the feedback we hear every time we pass a bill is that, um, we have already crammed so much into the school day that it's hard to find any more time. And so I've been thinking of the idea of integration, which is using certain information in a different part of the day. And so, um, with a lot of the work that Representative Welton put in with high school last year about founding documents, and I know that, um, our standards for elementary have brought in a lot of those too when they were redone. Um, but having a place when our kids are reading their passages in English or constructing sentences that they're using meaningful high quality material while they do that. And so bringing in a lot of that civics as a way to read, um, during these times when they're doing that anyway, but making it really beneficial. So, um, if we wanna just kind of start with the bill, um, I would, a, a lot of this would be, um, our social studies, high school school standards haven't been rewritten. Um, and they are would be up for being rewritten. They haven't been rewritten for 10 years. And so a lot of the good work that was done in elementary, I would love to have a bridge and correlate with high school because, um, there is no correlation right now. And if we're talking about spiraling as Representative Ivory brought up and also integrating, um, this would be the perfect time to do that. So it would also, um, direct the state superintendent to identify and develop, um, curriculum that could be offered to the schools at no cost for them to make sure that they have the ability to, um, teach these things. And, um, also it would, um, let's see. Do you want, let's see. So yeah, it's the high quality materials and then just making sure that, um, our standards hit different things. I added a few things in for, um, with some of the founding documents that we have, and I think Representative Ballard really hit on it that if we don't have a foundation, then as we're learning everything else in school, um, we don't really know what to compare it to and, and how to judge it. And so if we learn about America and the founding of America, you know, there's, there's the Vikings and then you have the Spanish in Florida, and then you have the Dutch in New York. But we start America's founding at 1620. And and why is that? It has to do with religious liberty and self-determination. And so when you're learning that, um, our, our kids learn all that in, in US history, but then when they start learning Utah history, are they making those same connections that the pioneers cross the plains, just like the pilgrims cross the oceans for the same exact things. And so I really just want them to really get grounded in the American ex, um, experiment and self-governance and when they're learning about ancient Greece and world history, instead of just learning about Greece in general, let's, let's look at their government and, and look at what our founding fathers decided to keep and why they didn't like pure democracy. Um, but that would be the main thing. There is some compare and contrast already in our standards, but it does not talk about communism. And I think that's very important thing to contrast with our government, uh, the way we have now. So I'll turn the time over. I've been trying to be really quick, um, to Representative Welton to talk about what he wants to talk about.

Thank you. Uh, um, I appreciate, uh, representative Voxer for putting some of, of my civics bill in here that we had. Um, it largely comes from cleanup from last session. We ran HB 3 81, which is an amazing bill. There was some, uh, concern over the, OR or some confusion over the implementation of it. And so we defined that this really is a one year credit, you know, one credit class that as a distinct part A and part B, we put in some clarifications that, uh, that to get, you had to get credit for part A and part B on that because we want you to learn about the, the, the, uh, bill of Rights twice. We want you to learn about the Bill of Rights and state government and local government and civics. And so we kind of clarified that as well too. And, and just one other thing really quick is, um, one of the frustrations I had and, and I can't say that I spoke to all elementary school teachers, but I spoke to quite a few. And one of their concerns was they said if you were to take an honest survey that was a blind survey of elementary school teachers, they're probably teaching like zero minutes a week of social studies. And one of the reasons why is 'cause we have so much that we are measuring math and science and reading and you get what you measure. And that's what we measure and that's how we determine what schools are are graded on. And we throw it out in the news that they're not reading at whatever level, right? We don't talk about social studies. And so what, what the effort on my part was, is to create some assurances that these are being taught and, and LEA can do that through time, they can do that through tests, whatever they want to, but there's some assurances that we're teaching that. And the idea is integrating, um, instead of like Dick and Jane as you're reading books or, uh, the respiratory system on the other end, which is also great. But we're, we're going to include some, um, uh, kind of social studies, core document readings that are implemented into, uh, our, our elementary education. So we're not, um, missing it. And with that, I think we're, we're done.

We're gonna go to Representative MacPherson first. Thank You, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'll be quick. Um, I know that this has at least under the, um, first sub a, uh, small fiscal note is the expectation of the second sub that this would be the same, larger, smaller. So I think that this will be a larger, um, fiscal note. I think with, I'm not sure about the first sub, but um, this is definitely more involved than what Representative Ivory was. And so I think it will be a much larger, um, fiscal note and that has been, um, brought up in discussions with the ability to make our own curriculum and directing the state board to do that. And so that's definitely out in the open. Thank you. And just to follow up real quickly then, so what would be the, um, the effect if we were to pass this bill and not fund it on the state board,

Then? I think that everything else that is in there as far as maybe adapting some of the founding documents that go in and things to study, but maybe not necessarily providing that information, uh, for free with the open resource materials. But a large section of the bill is about the open resource materials because right now the curriculum we get does not necessarily match our standards and our teachers have to go out and find their own material. And so with talking with the state board and, um, other, you know, the state superintendent and and leadership, um, it, the idea of being able to develop curriculum that matches our standards a hundred percent is really exciting.

Um, and just to, just so I can be sure though, but the requirements of this bill would still apply. We, we would still be requiring the LEAs and the state board to move forward with this even if we don't fund it, is that,

Well, it's my understanding that if when bills don't get funded, then those provisions don't work. If it doesn't get funded through, you know, EAC, I'd be willing to look at a way to take out some of that, um, and leave in, in the core. But, um, I, I, I think, oh, go ahead.

Well, obviously, um, money's tight as we start to, um, go through the process. If a bill is not funded, then it will not pass. So, um, whatever we can do to reduce those fiscal notes goes a long ways, especially in this process right now. Um, we had, uh, just an RFAs, we had $1.2 billion of requests. We know we don't have that as we look at the committee actions that they did, uh, we're not gonna have a lot of money from there. And so I don't anticipate a lot of money coming in, uh, our February revenue projections either, so that, that will make this, uh, a very difficult thing to fund.

Um, that wasn't my question. Okay.

I appreciate the opportunity to expound on that.

Um, my understanding is, is the state board is supposed to do, uh, social studies curriculum review next year. I guess my question is, is uh, how does that work? What's the state board's position on this? And, and wouldn't a lot of this work be done anyway bec they go through that process?

I mean, we can definitely ask the state board to come up and, and see. As far as I know, they haven't made a decision on that. I don't know if it's come up, but I do know since, um, social studies hasn't been redone for 10 years, that they might be more willing to do that.

So, um, I think just as we think about, um, if they're doing that, should we try to make that bridge and correlate with what they did in elementary and put in some of these other provisions that are not currently, um, in the standards that I think would be very beneficial for our students to learn. So, um, once they're graduated high school, they, they can see what's going on in the world and they can make those connections. They can see, um, some of the mob ocracy that's happening and, and recognize it for what it is. And so, um, just making sure we have that being hit on multiple times in all building on itself rather than learning in silos where it really feels like our education is right now. You have very siloed Utah history, very siloed, US history, world history, but if you know what things are important to look for throughout history, it lets you understand your presence so much better. And then my, my, uh, last question is, is did you have a high school coach that taught your social studies class in junior high?

Do you know what? I had amazing history teachers. That's A fair question. And I, that is my favorite subject. If I, if I were to be able to do anything, I would want to be a researcher in a museum because I just love history. And so I had incredible history teachers no matter what else they taught.

That's great. Alright. Thank you.

Jenny Earl, and I'll talk about our processes just a little bit so that you're maybe familiar with those. Um, I'm the standards and assessment, uh, chair when we have significant revisions, um, in standards, which the secondary standards we have not revised in about 10 years. Um, we do go through a, we have a, a rubric that we go through. And if, um, if there's a need for that, then we would, uh, we would start that process. That's usually a two year process, just kind of for your awareness. We really, we recently did the, um, the elementary standards and there's been some discussion around the circular, right? The re re repetitive or, you know, re reoccurring themes. If you go look at our social studies standards in elementary school, I think you're gonna see those and I think you're gonna see some more very specific things. We put a, um, um, tried to be very targeted about federalism and about, um, I don't know, just a variety of things. How governance work, obey obedience to law, what law looks like, the functions of things, but we did it in an age appropriate way. Um, there was one other thing I was gonna tell you. No, I'm not remembering right off hand. Um, oh, this is the other thing. If we make it too complicated, and this speaks to what, uh, Representative Welton, uh, had said, if you make it too complicated, our elementary teachers can't do it. Like, it's, it's, they, they're so worried about the reading, they're so worried about the math and they're, they're doing their best. So if we make something so complicated that they can't do it, they, they just, they just won't do it. And so we tried to simplify in a way, and I do think we do need, we do need, um, some resources to help them so that they can do what they need to do. Anyways, those are just my, my thoughts. Thank you for letting me take a minute to speak.

Collabor have taken a position on the current bill.

Hi. Um, my name is Yvette Romero Coronado. I'm a resident of West Valley. I am also a social worker. And, um, you know, I think I love this idea of teaching young people civic engagement. I think that that's more relevant, feels more relevant today than ever. In fact, whether we agree or not on why young people have been walking outta their schools more recently, I think it really shows us that we have an opportunity to really instruct the next generation of people the, the how-tos, the the what to expect and all of that. So I love the idea of civic eng of teaching civics, um, to young people and to children in general. However, I would really welcome the, the, the, I would invite the sponsor to really consider also inclusion of content that acknowledges, um, history and interaction with Native American communities because right as like to talk about the founding of this place, it would, we would be remiss not to include content around, um, around that specific community. And those are my comments and recommendations or suggestions. Thank

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I'm trying to pull the bill number up right now. Oh, it's three 12 second. So Do we need to adopt the First amendment? We Have a second sub sub to adopt. We have a second sub to adopt and An amendment I make, I make the motion that we adopt the second substitute of House Bill three 12.

Just briefly? I know the sponsor's been working on this a lot over interim and cares a lot about it and I also appreciate that she's worked with Representative Walton and others to consolidate the bill.

I'll waive. Sorry.

I'd make a motion that we adopt the first amendment to the second substitute of House Bill three 12.

No, I think the sponsor has.

Waive. Okay.

Pucci. That's make a motion that we favor Blake, recommend second sub of house bill three 12 as amended out of this committee.

I'll Waive. Alright.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just, again, still concerned about the fiscal note and, uh, would like to see not only the updated note, but, uh, perhaps some potential changes, uh, that would drop that and would hate to put something in place that couldn't be properly funded. But, um, thank you.

Um, I'm gonna vote and, and support, uh, under the premise that I think that we've gathered all of our civics bills together in one. I think that's the premise that we're o that at least I'm operating under here. So I appreciate the g the good work. I, there's been a lot of good ideas. There's been a lot of debate. There's been, I I know it was a difficult thing last week when we, uh, uh, held an earlier version of this bill. Um, but, uh, I think the effort to collaborate and work together is appreciated. So I'll express that appreciation back to the sponsor. Thank you. Um, I think I would just add one more quote since I love my founding father so much. But Thomas Jefferson said that the very purpose and nucleus of all public education is civic or citizenship and education. And I think that this goes a long way towards making sure that our kids are being able to be taught the amazing values and principles that America was founded on. And it's our responsibility to pass it on to the next generation.

You, Mr. Chair. And in fact, I feel like the last conversation just kind of queued this up perfectly because we were talking about how we have so many kids graduating, um, high school and not having an understanding of their government and how to, um, even engage with the political process and, and understanding the foundation of our country. And so, um, in the house this year, there were actually quite a few civic spills. And so this is a conglomeration of, of three different ones. And we will kind of go through the different things. But one of the things I really wanted to point out is, right now with our elementary, uh, social studies, there's not a bridge to the, the, um, secondary civics and history as well. And so this would be promoting a bridge so that we're integrating and teaching those same things over and over across the school years so that we're really getting a deep understanding of this foundation of our country. And, um, one of the, one of the things that it talks about is having the state superintendent identify and develop high quality open educational resource materials, which would mean that right now, um, a lot of times when we get curriculum that there's maybe 30% that aligns with our state standards, and then our teachers have to go out and find other material. And so this would help, um, identify free resources for, um, the schools to be able to use, which would then also help them, them, um, not be spending as much money on their own curriculum. And so, um, that's, that's the first part of the bill. And then, um, it start, it talks about some, some things to teach with social studies and, um, some of the things that maybe we're not exactly getting, because right now we learn our history in silos. You know, we call it Utah history, and then we call it US history. And then we have world history. But what is the point of all those different histories? Unless we understand how they interact with each other? Why are we learning about ancient Greece? You know, it's not just to learn the pantheon of gods and, and their history as interesting as it is, is to look at, hey, their government was a direct democracy. Our founding fathers looked at every single kind of, of form of government there is. And so we need to look at why they wanted some parts of, of, um, different governments and why they rejected some. And so when our kids are graduated, they'll be able to see things happening in life and be, and be able to identify what that is. You know, if, if we're talking about Rome, you're learning about the Republic. But what was not good about having Senator Vickers that weren't elected, you know, they were disappointed to serve the areas which, um, was, didn't necessarily work out the right way. Um, also if you're, if you're thinking about America, we, we learned so much history about how there's all these different people who've been in America before, you know, 1620. But why did we choose 1620 is because the pilgrims were coming across for self-government and religious freedom. I mean, we had the Vikings here first. We had, um, Jamestown, we had all the Spanish in Florida, and we had the French elsewhere, but we chose 1620 to be the founding of America because of the values and the principles that they fought for, which are the same reasons that pioneers crossed the plains, um, to, because they were dealing with religious persecution, and they wanted a place where they could have self-government and religious liberty too. And so when you can tie all those dots together, you really understand the foundation that we have so much more. And then, um, it, it talks about like just understanding the different roles of the government and, and making sure that our students actually know. I can't tell you how many emails I get of people calling me congresswoman and yelling at me about something that's going on in Washington DC and I'm, I'm sure you guys get the same thing. Um, not everyone understands our roles and how to engage with their government officials. And I think if they did, it would be, um, a different, a different thing that happens. And then, um, one of the things that we passed last year was an American history course, and some of the feedback we've been getting was, um, now it had to be a full year, a full credit. And, um, we'd have kids take American History one and pass it and then American History two and fail it. And then they'd go back and take American History one again and pass it. So then they would say, Hey, that counts as one full credit. So this was, um, one of the bills that was added in and, um, from Representative Welton. And it is just clarifying that, no, you have to take US History One and US History two and not just, um, take, you know, one of those twice. And then, um, it, it talks about the, the integration of, of civics and history. I've been thinking a long time about how our kids could get more history and more understanding. One of the duties that George Washington said the legislature has is to actually make sure that our students are, um, taught the science of government. And, and I know that our school days are already so packed with things that we're trying to get in. And so one idea to do this is in literacy, when they're reading different passages and deconstructing sentences, have all of that be high quality material. So they're getting this reinforcement of our history without actually having to add extra time. Um, so that's, that's basically the main idea. Um, oh, and then just when we were talking about the comparative government systems, just, um, we were talking about Greece and, and, uh, the Republic in Ancient Rome, but also other government systems in the world today, looking at that in a comparative way of, of saying, okay, what, what is this like, and what do we have and why? And I just think it gives us a better appreciation of the history and the foundation that we have. And so with that, I will open myself to questions. Thank you. Does that conclude your presentation? Yes.

Um, I just wanted to state that I support, um, support the Bill. Thank you so much.

I noticed the fiscal note on this bill is very high.

It is, but also in, in the bill on 4 27, it says, subject to legislative appropriation. So depending on what that looks like, we can rearrange things. I also will have a sub that would take out the requirement for the superintendent to actually develop and identify those open ed resources to make available to the schools, which I'm hoping that they'll be able to do in conjunction with the USU Civics center. Um, but if, if it doesn't get as funded as it needs, then we'll just have all these other things in place of what still needs to be taught and how you can integrate it across. And I've worked closely with the school board to get that to a number where it won't have a fiscal note above 20,000.

Thank you. Uh, it, it isn't on the funding list right now. Right? Right. Okay. So, uh,

And, and that's just because I didn't run an RFA with it and kind of a convoluted thing, but we'll know tomorrow.

Corin Johnson, Utah Parents United. Wanna thank the bill sponsor for this bill? We've seen a lot of bills on civics this year, several people working together, combining their ideas to bring forward this, this piece of legislation. And I, we love it. We love the spiral approach. Um, I actually love the open ed resources approach to this bill, and I'm hopeful that if we can't get it funded this year, that that's something that we can look at again, because there are so many incredible resources that are already available to the state that we should be pulling those in. And we should be making sure that our students here in the state of Utah are integrating, um, history civics into all that they're doing every day throughout the school day. And to ensure that they have that strong foundation. I also visited a lot of schools this past year with an organization called Civics, begins with me, and, and we're actually writing civics curriculum, um, for, um, sixth through eighth graders. And as we visited some schools, we talked about what was happening in the higher grades with this new civics requirement that was put in last year. And, and there was a big concern that by the time these kids get to high school, um, and take these classes, they, they haven't learned enough through the early grades that it hasn't been worked into the curriculum enough that then they're frustrated with the course, they don't understand why they're taking it. A lot of kids just are taking it online. They're not getting the full benefit of that education. So we feel very, very strongly that beginning this in an earlier grades, spiraling it through is the, is the best approach, and we ask for support for this bill. Thank you.

Maryanne Christensen, executive Director of Utah Legislative Watch, and I'm speaking in favor of the bill as well. Um, as I've looked at curriculum that used to produce, um, educated children, for example, uh, back in the day, a sixth grade education was far superior to even our college graduates these days. And so when we go and we look at the kind of curriculum that they taught children with back then, and I'm talking about McGee's readers or, um, William Bennett had a course that they, they, to teach all the subjects, they went back to incorporating the, the core, um, parts of history and social studies into those. And it was really successful. And I think it's time that we came back around to some of those early practices.

Delaine England. I'm speaking for United Women's Forum and also Utah Eagle Forum. If I'm really short, will you vote for the bell? Um, I am speaking in favor of the bell. If truth be not diffused, error will be Daniel Webster. A diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty, James Madison. An educated populace is essential for pres for the preservation of Liberty. Thomas Jefferson education is the fundamental, is fundamental to the survival and prosperity of the republic, fostering informed citizens capable of self-governance. This is a great bill. I think it's very well written, and I ask you to please vote for it and support it. Thank you so much. Our children deserve it and they need it.

Ahead. I'm just gonna speak, this is Jenny Earl. I'm on the state Board of education, but I'm speaking for myself. But I just wanna share, this is gonna sound a lot like what the, what I shared in the house already, lines 5 0 7 through five, um, 25, we redid our, um, our elementary standards just a few years ago, about four years ago. And we did incorporate in this this idea of circular, um, or reoccurring themes, um, in our standards. And so, especially that section is, um, exactly what we've already worked on in those elementary grades. So this, this is an alignment, um, of those lines are in alignment with the provisions we're already engaged in. So I just want the committee to know that. Thank you. Thank

Yeah, thank you. Uh, I would like to make a comment if it wasn't for learning about our AM American history about Christopher Columbus, and when he sold the, uh, sailed the ocean blue in 1492, you know, uh, it was about 530 years ago, and, uh, we're celebrating 250. I mean, there was, America was like, they discovered 250 years before the all that. And so, you know, it means a lot to know our history, and I think being forced into it, sometimes that's what it takes. Like me, I have to almost be beat into anything. So I would just make a motion that we pass out 312 second substitute with the paper recommendation.

Yeah, I think if we look at some of our founding fathers quotes, um, Thomas Jefferson said the purpose of public education is to have a highly educated, um, people who knew how their government worked and were engaged in civics. And so, um, I think that just goes along with it. And, you know, Reagan talked about how freedom was one generation away from extinction. We have to pass on this amazing heritage that was passed on to us. And, um, I'm, I'm really looking forward to that. So thank you.

to you to some, yeah, I would Just like to say that it's negligence if we don't teach our kids and grandkids our history. And so it's negligence on our part. So

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. And I'll be speaking to, uh, the substitute, very simple on the substitute. We, uh, working with USBE, we, uh, added a little paragraph at the end to, uh, have, uh, Utah State Board and, uh, with the advice of the Civic Thought and Leadership Institute, bring back to interim education, a, a, a plan, just ideas on how best to implement this, how do we do this most effectively, and bring that back to, uh, to education interim. And then also push the effective date or the implementation date, rather out a year to start in the 28, 29 year. So that's the substitute. Uh, with that Mr. Chair, uh, I've got a handout, if you don't mind, have my intern pass out, uh, a number of, of legislators, including many that are here. We were in a Mr. Chair. Is that okay?

Thank you. Uh, a number of legislators, including many that were here, were in a conference in Texas a couple months ago, and, and we learned about Texas is, is doing what they call spiraling civics education. They teach civics every year. And on the handout, you'll see, it's one of my favorite quotes or a favorite quote. I think I have a hundred or a thousand of them. It depends on the day. But George Washington said that, uh, primary object should be the education of our youth in the science of government in a republic. What species of knowledge can be equally important and what duty, more pressing than communicating it to those who are to be the future guardians of the liberties of the country. And, and that really goes to the heart of why we started public education, was to instill virtue so that we have that core of self-governance and then to teach the science of government. And so the idea here is by teaching that every year we really instill the importance, we're able to, to, uh, uh, reiterate that. And Mr. Chair, I have, uh, uh, one of the gentlemen who is helping to, uh, implement and divine devise the curriculum in Texas that is on FI don't know if we have, Mr. Barton is on and available. There we go. Uh, David Barton, uh, is, uh, speaker, scholar, historian, uh, and one of the ones working in Texas on the curriculum. And David, if you'd love to have you just share with the committee a little bit about why this is important and how you're doing what you're doing in Texas.

David Barden organization, wall Builders and thank you. Representative Ivory, um, Mr. Chairman committee. Uh, I, I, I'm in support of this bill for several reasons. It is a change in pedagogy that needs to be made in the civics and government area. Uh, we have for many years with the STEM areas done spiraling. We do that with math, we do that with science, but we've not done that well with history, with government, or with civics. And those are, as Representative Ivory just pointed out that quote from George Washington. That's what we really are training these kids for, is to be able to inherit this country and be good stewards of this country so that we can go past 250 birthdays, which we're celebrating now. So what has happened is generally, uh, particularly with history and what we're doing in Texas is spiraling. Where we now, for the first time in several decades are actually spiraling even history. Uh, we now cover all of history through K through two. We repeat it again and three through five and, and then five through eight, and then high school. So students will build each time they go through kindergarten, George Washington, father of his country. But as you get in elementary school, he is now in the French and Indian War. As you get more into junior high, he's now in the American Revolution. As you get into high school, he's the president, he's the constitutional expert. So we spiral with him each time that he becomes significant. And so doing that with civics and with student participant understanding of how the system works, participating in that is very, very important. Not that they just get it one time in high school, but they get this coming all the way through and that you can build on it, spiral on it. And, and so that's become a very important concept. Historically, that's what we did. For whatever reason, in the sixties, seventies and eighties, we moved in a different, uh, educational direction. We're now finding that coming back to what we've done literally for two centuries before is a very healthy thing. So I, I, I think it's an excellent idea to be able to take civics and start in ingesting that year by year, building on it as we go. And to that end, we even have in marketing what's called the principle of five, uh, marketing believes that you need to be exposed to something five times before you start remembering it and retaining it. And so with civics, um, I, you guys know the numbers as well? I do. The voter turnout is not nearly what it used to be in the 1840s, fifties and sixties. We were right at a hundred percent voter participation. Now we're down with local elections around four to 6%. And so we really need that built back and I think that this is one way in the long term to start building back that. So I'm in favor of this bill. I think it's an excellent approach. It goes back to a proven pedagogy that, that does work. And I think this will help all the students in Utah for sure.

Chairman, be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you Mr. Chair. Um, I've got a couple of questions, but, um, really looking at the, um, the bill, uh, substitute, um, I'm just curious, what, uh, have you been able to work with USBE on this? On how it would be, um, I guess integrated into the, uh, the current learning sort of

Platform? Yeah, that's the, that's the, the reason for the substitute. We push back the implementation date and then if you'll look at lines 1 56 to one 60 that, uh, we have USB working with the Civic Thought and Leadership Institute and then come back to education interim and, and, and present, how do we most effectively implement this? But the idea with this bill is we just set out the standard that we believe in self-government. We believe we should study that every year and understand how we self-governed in the United States.

Uh, okay. And thank you for that. And if I can ask a follow up on that. Yes, go ahead. The, uh, I, I, I guess, uh, even though the delayed implementation is still is A LEA shall, so I just want to ensure that we're, we're creating a structure that's required, but we're not unsu what that's gonna look like yet. Is that fair to say that, that that's the expectation of where this is?

Sure. And so then that's why we ask them to come back and, and bring a plan to the Education Interim committee on timing and cost and, and how we implement. Exactly.

Got it. Thank you so much. Alright.

We'll go to Representative Welton. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I just have a clarifying question and a follow up question.

Is the first substitute, was it brought by USBE or U or the Civic Thought and Leadership Institute?

Uh, we were discussing with both of them. And so, uh, we had a had a nice discussion that, uh, in doing this, that they would work together and bring back a plan and, and, uh, implementation. So.

Okay. And then the other thing, I mean, like, I'm, as you know, I asked the, the high school civics bill last year, and, and a lot of this looks very similar, kind of copy and paste. Uh, I appreciate the, the rule of five and, and, and the spiraling. I think that's really great. Um, what I don't see is like more social studies, Columbus, civil War, other things like that. It's, it's a lot of the exact same thing. Is there an interest in putting like, social studies in it or is it just civics? I, I'd be completely open to that, but I think here we're just, you know, we're taking that step that, I mean, again, the reason we really started public school was that we would train up people that knew what it meant. That the people are sovereign. Yeah. That they're the boss of the enterprise and know what the enterprise is and how to operate it. So I think we take that step, but I, I'm, I'd be all in favor of that as well.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There, um, have been a number of civics spills recently last year and, and a couple more this year. Wondering, um, if you've coordinated or talked to any of the others or how this would fit in? Well, uh, some of the yes, as far as talk, I mean, this builds on the great work that Representative Welton did last year with House Bill 3 81. And, uh, you know, I understand there's some other bills that are some that just got numbered and, and yeah. Happily to coordinate and make sure we get them all working together and, you know, get the right policy over the finish line. Thank you. Council May use it for.

Hi, my name is Jen Brown. I represent the Y Love America Organization and we want to thank Representative Ivory for his work on this. And we just wanna echo the, the idea of kids need to be taught, uh, over and over again for it to really stick with them and to become part of them to understand about our special form of government. So we believe that more often, more frequent teaching about civics is the correct direction to take. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you Jenny Earl. I'm on the State Board of Education, but um, I am not speaking on for them, so I'm speaking on behalf of myself. Um, I, I was trying to seek, I met with, uh, Representative Ivory the other day, but I, I may be seeking just a little bit more clarification. So when you sit down, maybe you can clarify that. We have put into, we've recently done our elementary, um, social studies standards, again, of which, um, we've worked with a number of entities to put in some of those key character, um, and civics pieces. And so I don't know if this bill is asking us to create a framework to work from those or to redo our whole standards that we just finished. Um, so maybe there, there could be some clear clarification there. And also with our, um, ELA standards that we just passed at every grade level, we do have in the reading section, students will learn to proficiently read, comprehend grade level literature and informational text, including seminal US documents of historical literary significance at the high end of the grade level. And of course, those would be age appropriate. So I don't know if this is, once again, if this is meant to be a framework that we're using as a resource to accompany the standards we already have, or if this is meant to replace standards. So it would be great to have some clarification there. Thank you.

Gail Zeki with Utah Eagle Forum, and I'm here to speak in favor of this bill. I love any, the idea of the spiraling, especially as you're teaching those founding doc documents, because what a difference in each of those levels of the information that you would, you would present and how you'd present it. And then just looking at those documents and thinking about some of the comments I heard, I thought, well, that's great. If I was teach, if I was teaching the declaration of in, there's all kinds of fun things you could teach at the same time that led up to the Declaration of Independence. And then what happened after the Declaration of Independence. Uh, and, you know, I homeschooled my children. That's exactly what we did. And I, and I learned so much myself as we, we didn't use the word spiraling, but that's what we did. We taught, you know, in our home all these, these documents and the stories that went with them at each appropriate age. And you know what, in the process of doing that, I learned more than I ever knew before. So please vote yes for this bill. Thank you.

Phyllis Kimel of the Worldwide organization, um, uh, the Worldwide Organization for Women, um, I am in favor of this bill. It is so important for our children to understand the beginnings of this country and the documents that, uh, started this country and supported this country and why these documents came about. Um, I remember when I was in school, of course, that was in the early fifties, but we memorized the preamble to the Constitution and memorized the Gettysburg address and said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning and even had prayer every morning. And it was wonderful. I had a great understanding of why this country was so special and such. So please vote yes for this bill. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Jennifer Partridge and I'm president of the school board in Provo. Um, representing our board, um, I express appreciation that we value civic's education, it's foundational, um, to our society. Um, and we also appreciate the spiral aspect of it, as has been already stated. Um, our standards already include a lot of citizenship and, um, similar principles throughout, um, K through 12 education. Um, I've been in recent conversations with our district leadership, just about their workload, and I share the same concern with our state school board. I wonder, um, if we have the capacity to add more, um, especially on a, a short timeframe. And so, um, based on some of the other comments that have been said today, I would encourage you to pause this bill and work together, study, um, where we're at already, and how to integrate these principles into what we're already doing, and then come back next year with the bill, um, with a more concrete plan. Thank you.

Hi, Elise Newy. I'm the Deputy Superintendent of Policy for the Utah State Board of Education. Um, I just wanted to thank the sponsor for working collaborative with us. Um, he brought the bill to us and was very gracious about changing the date in which it would roll out for schools, so we're grateful for that. I do wanna point out the board has not taken an official position on this bill. Um, they have not voted in support or opposition. Um, and also, just as a point of clarification, this is one thing that comes up. Um, I think every year, uh, the state board is over the standards for, um, all of the schools throughout the state of Utah. So we develop what should be taught, what should be hit upon within those standards. And then LEAs are actually over the curriculum part of it. So as we're having these discussions, it's important to keep those two separate, that the state does standards and the LEAs do curriculum. But thank you so much.

Hi, I'm Delaine England and as, uh, I'm actually a history teacher and a constitution instructor. And I notice that when I teach junior high and high school and when the students that have already had instruction come into my class, it is such a difference since children who haven't ever had that foundation, it makes all the difference. And they can, they can learn so much faster and learn so much more because they have something to build on. So I totally support this bill. Thank you so much.

Hello, my name is Michelle Linford. It took me a second to get my technology to connect. Um, I am the interim chair for the Utah Civic Learning Collaborative. I'm not here representing that group, but just wanted to give you a little lens on some of why I decided to speak up. I can hear that there may be some further conversations to happen, but I really, really love the idea of the spiraling pedagogy. And it's consistent with brain science. When, when concepts come and they're somewhere for that concept to land within someone's already lived experience, it can stick. I also am a, a master's degree student, um, through an online program, Boise State, um, pursuing social work. And I am discovering as I engage with my fellow students, that many of them do not have a firm grasp on the actual civics process. Um, and often ideology ends up kind of leading the way rather than methodology of, of the civics, civic processes, and even constitutional understanding. And so, although I understand that we're representing the, the process in Utah, I believe that that is, um, not uncommon. And we, at the Civic Civic Learning Collaborative are very interested in making sure that we have robust civics education for all the reasons that have been mentioned. And I also just want to say that, um, rep Representative Ivory, if there's any way we can be of service to you and others in, um, brainstorming as, as these conversations continue, that we'd be more than welcome to contribute.

Good afternoon. My name is Lynndyl Smith. I live in Salt Lake City, and I'm here representing the League of Women Voters. I'll be very brief. The legal of women voters supports this bill. We have the position that civics education on foundational documents, uh, is critical in, in order to prepare students for informed active citizenship to foster democratic values and to ensure the survival of a free society. Uh, we are in favor of this bill and applaud the efforts of Representative Ivory in sponsoring this bill. Thank you.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to make a motion that we, we hold this bill and I'd like to explain why.

Yeah. The reason why is I love this bill and I love exactly what we're trying to accomplish here, but just from a perspective of three things that I think can be worked through. 'cause our job, of course, is to work through things in committee so that it's ready for prime time on the floor. Uh, three things. One is I appreciated, um, representative, uh, Walton's idea of do we wanna incorporate the social studies with it. I, I think that, I think that could be I something that probably ought to be coordinated and and discussed. Uh, number two, the timeframe I, I wondered that myself too as I read this bill, is, would the, would the schools be able to get this done in time to start this fall? 'cause I believe the way the bill's written, this would have to start this fall. And then number three, um, again, what we heard from the state board where they just got done putting in place from state board, um, their, their current approved plan. And again, would this replace that? Would, this should be a guide, a guardrail, et cetera. So I think we work through a few of those things and I think that can happen quickly. 'cause I'd like to see this move out and get going quickly. And so that would be my reason for the hold is just to work through a few of those key elements that have been addressed here. And so, so we can get this thing moving forward.

Uh, yeah, I, I appreciate, but I would speak against that. Uh, the substitute pushes the implementation date out to 20 28, 20 29. So we're not racing against any kind of a clock. That's what we worked with USBE on. And then to the other point of implementation and standards, also in the substitute, we have USBE and Civic Thought and Leadership coming back to education interim by September with that implementation plan and allowing them to coordinate and work on what's, uh, what would be the most effective way of implementing that. Uh, and then just lastly, um, having been here for a couple of years, we're already kind of late in the session to get bills moving through. And so as we move bills through and, uh, you know, if there are coordination clauses or things that we need to do, we certainly can do that. And, and I'm more than willing to do those sorts of things, but it's, it's, from a timely standpoint, I think we need to get, keep things moving. But I think we've addressed most of your points with the substitute.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, I don't normally, um, I don't, this is a difficult, uh, decision because this is a very heavily loaded, uh, committee. Um, and I agree with the sponsor that, uh, if we're gonna move a bill, we should, and if we're not, we shouldn't. Uh, holding is a little trickier in a committee like this, but I will also say that, um, I'm aware that we have at least three more, maybe even four more, um, elementary school civics bills, um, out there. And I think it might make sense if, uh, we can hear those a little bit closer together to understand how they're gonna work, uh, together. I know that there could be some coordination there, so I'm not opposed to a motion to hold. But I would recommend that we, we wrap that up quickly if we are going to, um, so I'm speaking in favor of that.

Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. Um, so, um, I wanna thank the sponsor of the bill, first and foremost for bringing, um, for bringing this bill. Um, there, there's a quote that the sponsor actually put me onto that I wanna share, and I know our time is short. This is a George Mason quote, George Mason's maxim that no free government or the blessing of liberty can be preserved to any people, but by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles. And that is what this bill is getting to the heart of. I support this bill 100% as I think most of my colleagues do. Um, I am going to support, um, and vote in favor of the hold. Um, for, for one reason because I want this bill to, to be passed and become law this year. That's what I want. Um, I've already worked with my intern to schedule a meeting with the state board and bring all the stakeholders together, which we will do tomorrow. And I will publicly request, it could be turned down that this be put on our next education, uh, uh, agenda, uh, so that we can circle back around on it. But coordinate, let us do the work of the committee and let's get this thing to the floor because that's where it needs to be in my opinion. But I would speak in favor of, Of a brief hold.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, not only is that a quote from George Mason, it's article one section 27 of the Utah Constitution. Frequent recurrence to fundamental principles is essential. Hold on. It says to this, Hold on just a second. We're having a microphone issue here. Let's try that. There we go. Alright, thank you. We good? Yep. We're Good. Thank you. Yeah, That's not just a George Mason quote, which it is, it's a great quote, but it's also Article one, section 27 of the Utah Constitution. Frequent recurrence to fundamental principles is essential to the security of individual rights and the perpetuity of free government. I don't know how many times we've talked to people and they, they simply don't know how to drive the government that they're the boss of. While I appreciate there are other bills and things out, and I'm happy to coordinate and honestly, I don't even care who gets it over the finish line, but, you know, we've already pushed the start date out to 2028. We've got USBE and Civic thought and leadership bringing up a implementation plan back to the interim education committee in September. And so I would, I would urge the committee, let's, let's move these things. Let's keep them going. We've got so many bills on the board already and so many more coming. Let's get them moving. And I, I commit to the committee, I commit to others that have civic bills. Let's work on them going forward and, and keep them moving to the finish line. 'cause we're already in a race against the clock. And I, I remember last year passing a bill at 1158 and I think I aged about three years in the process of running from the Senate back to the house. I would urge the committee, let's get it moving. And I pledge to work with all of these and I don't even care who has their name on the policy. At the end, let's get the policy moving and let's, let's keep moving forward. So Thank you and to the maker of the motion,

Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. And, and I, um, I don't know when the first sub, I appreciate you with the first sub, um, addressing those couple of issues, but I still think with the other bills coming, we can, I think we can still get this to move quickly. So I would still, I'm still going in favor of a, of a hold.

Representative Voxer. Thank You you, Mr. Speaker. Um, I think we all know that there's been a big conversation around civics the last couple of years and really wanting to make sure that our students have a strong foundational knowledge of our founding principles and history of our country. And, um, there were actually quite a few bills on civics this year. And so as, um, a committee in education, we decided to combine a few of them. And so one of the things that we wanted to talk about was, um, making our civics integrated across, um, different subjects. And one way to do that was to make sure that our students are getting that foundation by spiraling social studies so that you hit the same thing, um, multiple times throughout the school, um, grades. And then also to integrate those subjects into math or into reading and using Hall High quality reading materials as a vehicle for that instruction, as well as directing the state superintendent to identify and develop those materials to be made available to the schools for free if they choose. And then another problem that we noticed, um, from last year's HB 3 81 and our good representative from Payson and his work on, um, social studies and history last year was that we made it so that history has to be one full credit now US History. And we were having kids take one semester of Utah History one and pass it and then take Utah History two and fail it, and then take Utah History one again. And they wanted that to count as one full semester of, or one full credit. So, um, we're saying that US History actually has to be taught in two distinct semester courses of US History One and US History two. So, um, with that I will just open myself to questions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the sponsor yield to a series of Questions? Representative Boxier, will you yield to a series of questions?

I would be happy To. Yes. Representative Arthur,

I am curious, speaking of those credits starting online, 3 56, it talks about the graduation requirements connected to social studies being 3.5 credits. I'm curious why there are so many credits required in this bill for graduation, uh, for social studies when none of the other core content areas rise over three credits.

That's a really good question, but this is something that we passed last year. And so what line is it on again? I Believe 3 56. Okay. Lemme look at it real quick. As far as I know, we didn't actually make any changes to that this year, and it was just talking about the classes that would qualify. Yeah, 3 56 that was already passed. So that's not what's in this bill this year being passed. So it's already in statute.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Lemme just look at that. I, I'm confused though. It, it is red. Um, Mr. Speaker, am I misreading that? Yes. Um, is there another version of the bill that I'm missing? Oh, I might be looking at the wrong bill. Just a second. It's new language, I believe. Let me check. And I might have to phone a friend if they're here. Let's see. 3 56. Yeah, I think, uh, 3 53 Oh yes. Was the previous language. And then, yeah.

Okay. Um, can I phone a friend as representative from Payson here? Okay. He's not here. So, um, as, as far as I know, we, not changing the inquiry, the requirement, I think we could be just pulling this under this, this code right here. 'cause it talks about our, our American constitutional government and citizenship. And we're not adding any extra, it could just be talking about, um, just moving it all under the same code. But I, I don't believe that it is new. But I would say the reason why we have three and a half is because, um, in our founding fathers, whereas a Thomas Jefferson, he said the very purpose and nucleus of all publication is civic or citizenship engagement. And so, as far as last year was concerned, and why we ended up passing an extra full credit to make sure that we were getting that full credit, was to make sure that our kids, when they were graduating, had a strong understanding of our government and were able to, um, engage civically with, with their government once they graduated.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, my next question, line 5 84. I, as a classroom teacher, have a lot of experience reading standards that have been passed down by the, by the state school board. As I read the, the new language from 5 84 down, it reads to me like, uh, like standards that I would find from the state school board rather than code that I would usually find in statute. Can you clarify? Are, are these standards that, that educators will be expected to teach?

So, um, I I just got some clarification, just like the last question, Mr. Speaker. This is already just in code and it's being moved, um, down into one section. And so as far as this, um, from the 5 84 and down that we're talking about, this is already, um, things that are taught in our curriculum except I would say, um, it, it talks about the American history and government and making sure the instruction includes the forms of government. So it talks about republic and a pure democracy and a monarchy and a oligarchy. And then down on 5 88 it just says, uh, our original language was socialism, individualism, and free market capitalism and communism was just put in as far as that went. So this is just a, what we already had in code include, and then adding in communism and then just moving it over to a different section. So the reason why it looks different is because it's already pulling in the code that we have, um, about what they have to be taught and what is already in standards. But then from 5 88, they're talking about if they're looking for this new open resource materials, that it has these things in it so that the curriculum that our our teachers are teaching matches the standards. Because we found out that most of our curriculum that we get as full par, um, in full textbooks, doesn't actually match our standards. Um, it, it might match like 30%. And so one of the things about this bill is going out and making sure that we can find curriculum that matches our STU standards 100%. And that is what is just reiterated here, is if, if we're looking for open resource materials to be given to the schools for free, so they're saving millions of dollars, then that, um, that open resource materials has to have what the standards are in it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, i, i, I honor the, the good sponsor's intentions with this Bill Civics and Social Studies to me is, is the son of a Korean immigrant and a, and a West Point graduate. Uh, that's, that's what I was raised on. Uh, I'll just share a quick story in my classroom. I once asked my students to write on sticky notes. There answer to the question, what is social studies? My students went up to the front of the classroom, put these sticky notes on the, on the board. I read them off, and there was one that I loved. It said the, the story of us. And I thought that was a beautiful definition for what social studies is until I found out later that the student had tried to write the history of the US but didn't know quite how to spell it correctly. And that led to more lessons. While I, while I not only love, uh, social studies and civics, but teach it, when I look at what's happening in this bill, it, it befuddles me as an educator because this is what is typically left to the state school board and our local school boards. The state school board is entrusted by the constitutional constitution under Article 10 to develop the standards to say what it is that our students should be learning. That's, that's their power. And then the local school boards have the power to, to access and to purchase whatever curriculum it is that they want to in order to teach those standards. When I, when I read this bill, despite its good intentions, it feels like an overstep of, of state authority into what should be relegated to the, to the state school board and our local school boards. I, I trust those elected bodies to do this important work. And for that reason, I would urge all my colleagues to vote no on this bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I appreciate my good repre Oh, sorry, Sorry, representative. That wasn't

Yeah, thank you. I, I think there is a, um, a misunderstanding of what this says. This is the same that we have in our code for what our, our kids are already being taught. And then that is left up to the school board to decide the standards on how to make sure that each of those things are actually being hit. So one of the things we noticed was that the school board redid the curriculum for K through, um, six and was, was able to go through and, and that's what's in the curriculum now. Our high school or secondary curriculum is, is up to be, um, looked at for the standards again. And so we just want that to correlate with the good work that they already did K through six. So this isn't adding, um, anything new except for, like I said, it's adding one more, um, type of government to look at in comparison to capitalism in this section. So I would appreciate, um, uh, the support and making sure that our, our kids are educated. And one of the quotes that I love most from George Washington whose birthday is on Sunday, said that there's no duty more pressing on a legislature than to support a plan for communicating the science of government to our youth who are the future guardians of the liberties of this country. And I think this bill does exactly that, making sure that they have a strong foundation in the, um, constitution and our founding principles. Thank you.

This bill has started in the house and made its way over here. This was focused on creating a similar, um, uh, a similar curriculum, but just for social studies. So, um, in our quest to, uh, try to minimize the number of bills we pass, rather than passing two bills that have great overlap and that, uh, you know, are are on the same topic. Uh, we're gonna take a house Bill three 12 and kind of let it be the vehicle for two, uh, two similar policies. So, um, I, I've got a fifth substitute that I'll move in just a moment. Uh, and we've already passed that, uh, with a large majority out of here earlier. It was about two weeks ago. So, um, there's some, uh, addition in three 12 that I'll explain that we're, uh, introducing social studies curriculum into the elementary grades, uh, with some standards. Uh, we're, uh, specifically calling out integrated instructions so that with English language arts and mathematics to combine those and, and use those use social studies and original sources to be able to teach those courses. Uh, even down in elementary school, um, uh, we're, uh, calling out the use of founding documents and comparative government teaching, uh, students, uh, about what it means to live in a republic, uh, versus other forms of government. Um, uh, and then, uh, just calling for a, as the state, uh, is redoing their social studies standards anyway, to, to work this in. So there's no new workload, particularly for the State Board of Education here. And then, um, uh, we are taking out portions of three 12 at the request of the superintendent, uh, uh, that we were working with today and members of the State Board of Education that have already had, uh, a say in here. And then the fifth substitute would marry those two bills. So that we've got one bill that creates, um, an open resource curriculum that would be available for free to all public schools. And then add some additional guidance on how the social science, uh, and history, uh, will be redone to incorporate a K through six social studies model. And with that, Mr. President, I move that we delete entitled embody second substitute House bill three 12. Replace it with fifth substitute house bill three 12. And that also solves the fiscal note issue.

Thank you. I just wanna say at the outset before we take questions or debate, this is an example of how the process can really work. Well, you know, uh, the Senate kind of works on its thing. The house works on its thing. They kind of cross paths. We meet and we talk and we figure out a way, uh, to do this together. So, um, uh, this represents the best thinking of both bodies and combines two bills that have passed widely in each.

Thank you Mr. President Pro Tem. I'm so sorry. So sorry. Thank you, Mr. President. Um, you said that this fifth sub takes care of the fiscal note. Uh, it says it's still $24 million. Is that the accurate fiscal note, Mr. President? The fiscal note is, uh, is funded.

Thank you. Um, I, um, as a teacher I have used Edia, which is an open source that's free. I've used Nearpod, which is an open source that's free. You now can type in any curriculum into ai, school ai. You could use Gemini, you could use, um, copilot. And it provides you with a really robust lesson plan. You can say, I'd like it to have a language component. I'd like to have a math component and it all pops up for free. So I, I don't understand why we're asking our school district to make a curriculum that can be created in AI in seconds and for free. And this one's gonna cost $24 million. What would the $24 million be used for?

Uh, we had this debate on Senate Bill one 19 when it passed earlier, but I'm happy to have it again. Uh, school districts currently spend about $40 million a year on curriculum. Uh, I guess I take issue with the notion that if it was all that easy, school districts would be doing it already instead of wasting $40 million on textbooks. Uh, the truth is, it takes professionals and there are a lot of resources out there, and I know some are available for either, uh, some are available open source, um, some are available for purchase, uh, at very high prices. Uh, there are some in between, but none of them is specifically designed to Utah's core standards. And the key part about the debate that we had on this earlier was the need for, uh, Utah schools to be able to have resource, uh, an open resource that was available to them at no cost, uh, uh, and, and from which they could pick and choose. Um, I wanna pause here to just, uh, outline some of the testimony that we had on this in, in the education committee from the superintendent and from Amanda Bolen Jr. Who's the vice chair of the state board, about how important this resource is from a saving standpoint and a teaching quality standpoint. Right now, when we spend money on textbooks, Mr. President, it's millions of dollars, about $40 million a year in school districts across the state, and you have to buy the entire package, even though you might only use one quarter of it at any one time. This allows teachers to customize lesson plans to only print and download what they need to only use what they need without the expense of buying the entire package. Uh, the testimony, uh, on this from the State Board of Education and the superintendent could not have been more clear about how important this is, uh, for teachers and for students, uh, as well as for taxpayers.

You. I'd like to call the senate if I could. Ms. President five Moore standing.

You. I move, uh, under suspension of the rules that fifth substitute house bill three 12 pass.

Thank you, Mr. President. I move that the following bills be lifted from rules and place after first substitute house bill 5 97 on the Senate second reading calendar in the following order, house bill 32, substitute three house bill 30, substitute one house bill 63 house Bill five 20 house bill 4 37 house bill 4 75 substitute three house bill 3 73. Substitute one house bill 3 37 Substitute three House bill 5 49 substitute one. And finally, house bill 68. Substitute four. That is the motion.

Fifth Substitute House Bill three 12 School curriculum and standards modifications by Representative Voxer. Representative Voxer. Thank You. Motion to concur with Senate Amendments.

Yeah. Um, this is the bill that we passed out about creating our own social studies and history curriculum. There was also a bill that said, um, that we should look into doing our curriculum across all subjects. And so we just put it into the bill. Um, my history and social studies will be first and that's what was funded. And so that's, uh, that's the concurrence

Colleagues. Um, I strongly oppose this motion to Concur and I wanna tell you why we do our work in the committees. There was a senate bill that came before the education committee be meeting, and it was Senate Bill one 18. This bill did not pass and there was a reason why it did not pass the underlying bill. This bill three 12, it did pass our, our House committee, which we were okay with that policy, but the Senate bill just two days ago or three days ago, did not pass. Um, because it needed to go to interim. It had a $64 million fiscal note to create curriculum for the state of Utah, which we felt was extremely expensive. That could have been done much cheaper. It looked like it could have easily turned into a vendor bill. Uh, we also, um, uh, found out that it needed just, again, more work to go into interim. And so we as a committee decided that we were going to vote against that Senate bill and we did, and it did not pass. Then that bill ended up getting merged with this bill on the Senate side. Thus this concurrence, I don't believe that's good policy. I don't think that's good. Uh, uh, maneuvering within our body to be putting a bill that was, that failed in committee into a bill that passed so that we can get some funding. I disagree with it, with it, and I urge you with all I have to vote against this concurrence.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support because I think that both the sponsor of this bill and the sponsor of the other, some of the other language that was put into this bill actually are trying to do somewhat of the same thing. Their approach was slightly different, but what this bill is doing as it's combined here is it's making it so that the civics education is created within our state according to our state standards, which is super important and that, but that civics education is not all of the education. The other bill that we voted no on in committee the other day would have superseded this bill, which was one of the reasons that I voted no for that bill. This combination makes it so that the civics education takes the priority and then all of the other, um, areas of education like math and science and stuff can also be created in-house for our state according to our standards. This is so important. What we don't understand is that there are only five states in the United States that supply all of the curriculum for the state, and we are subject to those being brought into our state. They make a couple of little tweaky mod modifications for our state. But other than that, we're getting California's education, Indiana's education. This will help us get our education and now not just for civics, but for all of the areas. So I think this is a really great combination and I urge your support.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield Representative, uh, er will you yield? I

Will, Yes. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Um, so it's my understanding that even though the original fiscal note of the bill that was subbed into this was 64 million, that it, it was only funded for 12 million. Is that correct?

That's correct. And I'd like to point out along with that, that that was the amount that, um, my bill needed to fund the civics portion. And so this, um, as, as was also mentioned earlier, I, I made sure that this would not be in vendor bill. The way that I wrote it is that the state superintendent, along with the school board, will be the ones looking for the materials and developing it here in Utah. Whether that's the USU Civic Center, whether that's the Utah teachers or anywhere else they wanna look, it is putting it fully in the hands of the state school board and superintendent Honor.

Thank you, Mr. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I, I do think that this bill is significantly different than the bill that the committee rejected. I do agree that it's important that we respect committee work. I was part of that committee. Um, but I also think that the way that this has drafted now, it's, it's not the same, but if it's the will of the body that we refuse to concur and go to conference committee and there needs to be some more clarification, I'm sure that's fine as well. I'm sure the sponsor would agree. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, I rise in opposition to the motion to concur, uh, for a couple of reasons that are different than what we've discussed so far this morning. First one is, uh, curriculum remains and still is a local decision. Standards are a state board decision or state board is, uh, worked on and, and continues to approve and adjust standards. Uh, our local LEAs continue to, uh, work on adopting curriculum. There's not anything in this bill that requires a local LEA to adopt this curriculum, but I do think that coordinating and figuring out how to move forward, uh, in the right way is, uh, gonna be important. Um, I'm supportive of the underlying principle that we're trying to address, which is to have Utah based curriculum, uh, that is, uh, unique to our standards. I think that that's the right principle and it's the right approach. I feel like that there's just more discussion that needs to happen about how to do that in the right way for the state of Utah, uh, before we move forward with this particular, uh, legislation. And so, um, I I'm supporting the motion, uh, or opposing the motion on the premise that I think we need some more time. I want to, I want to ease my colleague's mind on one final thing, specifically as it relates to civic and character education in the state of Utah. And I'm gonna read from the existing statute that is already in law. This is already law. This is not what we're debating today. The legislature recognizes that civics and character education are fundamental elements of the public education system's. Core mission is originally intended and established under Article 10 of the Utah Constitution. Civic and character education are fundamental elements of elements of the constitutional responsibility of public education and shall be a continuing emphasis and focus in public schools. The cultivation of continuing understanding and appreciation of a constitutional republic and principles of representative democracy in Utah and the United States among succeeding generation of, uh, educated and responsible citizens is important to the nation and state. I can go on, we have very good education directives on civics education. I'm not opposed to the idea that we provide additional clarity about what we would like to do, but I think this is one that needs a little bit more time. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker or the sponsor, yield Representative Voxer, will you yield To a couple of questions to a series of

Questions? Yes, I will. Yes, representative.

Is the substitute or the amendment that the house put into your bill to sub, is it substantially the same as what failed in the house committee?

Um, I would say that it is different. A lot of the comments that were considered, um, for why the bill failed the first time was because they were afraid it was a vendor bill. My language in three 12 is very specific that it is not a vendor bill and it is left up to the superintendent and the school board to be able to decide how they develop and identify the materials. And so I think that is the major sticking point on if we want control on what our students are being able to learn and being taught, um, we, we want to not have to be getting our textbooks from California. Mr.

Speaker, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recall my, my time. Thank you. I think the sponsor answered my question. Um, my concern with this is we're already spending a couple hundred million dollars, whatever it is on curriculum, this is another 60 million and if the LEAs don't adopt this, then we may be spending what we're currently spending plus the additional amount and not really having any, any savings. That's my concern. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Yeah, thank you. I think if everyone looks at the fiscal bill, it was not $65 million. It is $12 million and if we put together our own curriculum and we would give it to the schools, they would then free up those millions of dollars for whatever they want. And so it is a win-win for us to be able to make sure that the curriculum our kids are being taught are based off of the standards that we want them to have. I would also like to note that I worked closely with the school board and they actually gave me much of the language that is in this bill for it to work the way that they wanted it to be. And so, um, to, to say that this is their responsibility, I would say yes, I agree and that's why I asked them what they needed in this bill. So it was not a vendor bill, so it went along with their processes and, and I happily incorporated what they wanted me to do as I talked to them about this from the very, very beginning in my bill three 12. And so all of that language supersedes anything that gets brought in. The only thing that's being really brought in is the money for this bill because three 12 was not funded, but the amount that was funded in the bill that failed was the exact amount I need for social studies. And so with that being the supremacy and you can see in there that this is what they have to work on first. That is what's gonna be funded. It is the same bill that you guys already all voted for and I would appreciate your support.

Um, I guess I will Motion to refuse to Concur Representative and ask the Senate to receive from its amendments.

Walter on Thank You Mr. Speaker. I'm sorry I'm slow on my, uh, uh, mic here today. Um, I just want to, uh, uh, tell the, uh, tell the uh, um, uh, members here that, uh, yes, we were able to come to an agreement. Uh, we worked out the provisions with the Senate. There was a, there was a couple of changes that we made primarily to Senate bill, um, one 19 that was adopted into three into house Bill three 12. Um, we made a, we made a couple of specific changes. The first one was we gave the, uh, state superintendent of education, uh, some broad discretion about how to implement, um, the, uh, program that would help create the Utah curriculum so that she would have the ability to either, um, contract, she could put it out for RFP. She could, um, uh, uh, she could work with the existing, um, education professionals in the state. We essentially gave that, uh, to her. We, we also expanded the, um, grades that could be served from, it was K through eight. We made it K through 12 and then gave her discretion within the budget and the resources she has to focus on, uh, the grades that would be the most, um, it would be the most, uh, important, uh, for her. Um, we also eliminated a reporting requirement that would've added another burden to our, uh, local, uh, education agencies. And so, uh, um, and then there was a, finally there was a, another piece that required, it was a very interesting provision. It required the state Board of education, uh, to adopt a particular, um, AP course. They adopt courses all the time. They don't need us to, uh, in the, in the shall language require them, uh, to adopt a particular course. And so we gave that discretion back to the state board. Um, and uh, we were able, we were able to, uh, come to an agreement out all those terms with the, uh, with the Senate. I want to, uh, acknowledge and recognize the cooperation of, um, the bill sponsor in working through the, uh, proposed changes with the uh, Senate on those amendments. So thank you Mr. Speaker.