H.B. 315 Human Development Instruction: transcript

Thank you. This morning, uh, we do have handouts. Why don't you go ahead and pass those out. Thank you. Second, thank you. Oh, not on. Oh, Should be working now. Okay. Thank you. We were just trying to navigate some technical difficulties. I appreciate everybody joining me here today for, uh, h oops. Hello for HB three 15. Okay. So this bill is actually a bill that I feel is so very important because there is actually a little gap in our, um, educational training for the children. And, um, when I saw a video that came out, oh, I don't know, it was a, maybe a couple of years ago, there was a little video that came out that I saw come through my browser, and it was called The Baby Olivia Video. And I thought, oh my goodness, that is such a beautiful video. It showed the development of a baby completely tasteful. And I thought to myself, I wish that I would've seen that and known that when I was young. So then a, after I was just watching for a bit, there were multiple states that started passing laws in their states to show this free video in their schools to their students. And I thought, that is such a great idea, because I don't know if, uh, any of the ladies in the room were like me. And maybe, you know, maybe this was just me, but I kind of highly doubted I Uintah all the things I did, maturation and health and all the stuff. But never once did anybody talk about the development of a baby. And it wasn't until I decided that I wanted to have a baby and I was pregnant, and I Uintah my OB visits toward the beginning of my pregnancy, that they handed me a little chart that would explain some things that would happen in the pregnancy to me. But even then, they didn't even fully tell me exactly. They might tell me how big the baby was or maybe how much it would weigh, but they didn't even tell me what the development was like. And so this is part of just, I think, human education, that we should know how we develop so that when we are having families and those types of things, that we actually know, um, what is going on with the process of having children in the state. We've been talking a lot this year about our fertility crisis that we're facing in our state. And I think that this type of a training would help people understand a little bit more about babies and the beauty of babies and why we need to care about those babies and, and in their development. So, um, I would like to just show if I could a video, and I'm hoping that I, I had the video that has, that is not connected to YouTube, but for whatever reason, it was not playing on this system. So I'm hooking to the YouTube one, which is a little annoying to have to do. But, um, we've got tech here observing me is standing me standing by anyway, so we're gonna just get out of the advertisement. That's gonna come at the beginning. Oops. Okay, here we go. Now I'm gonna see if this is going to work. Hopefully it does. Here we go. Fingers crossed on the sound, but if not, you can at least see it. There's something With that. Oh, here We go. Representative. Looks like we're having some technical issues. Do you Know? I am. So I know, I know we've sent this to the, I know you've, uh, communicated with the members of the committee. Maybe we can, maybe we can forego the video and Okay. If everybody has had a chance maybe to already see this, I'm fine with that. I don't want, yeah, as soon as I unplug, there's something with plugging into the system here, so my apologies there anyway. No, we, we understand and we just realize there's a technical issue. That's not your fault there. Yeah. Thank you. I'm so sorry. Um, but I do have someone online with me today, um, who is part of the team responsible for making this video. And just so you know, um, the video is meant for anyone to use. It's completely free. That's one of the beautiful things about this. Um, it's given to schools, to USBE. It'll be given with, um, a perpetual license. It won't have to be renewed. There won't have to be any communication that happens. It's just, here's the video, it's free, ready to go. And this will be able to show medically accurate, um, information of how a baby develops. And this will be shown according to the bill. It will be shown in fifth and sixth grade in maturation class. It will be shown in health classes, in child development classes, and in biology classes. So that's how the bill is, um, written in the substitute. And that's what I'm speaking to today. The sub and the, uh, and the amendment, or Yes, and the amendment. I think it's, I meant amendment. Anyway, so I do have bra, uh, Noah brat online with me today. Oh, there he is. Go ahead, Noah.

Hey, thank you, Representative Peck. Uh, hope, hopefully folks can hear me. Um, appreciate, uh, all of these.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Yeah. So my name is, uh, Noah Brandt. I'm Vice President of Communication and Government Affairs at the Group Live Action, which is a, uh, nonprofit that mostly makes educational materials and helps distribute them online and other places. Uh, my company is, uh, we have offices in Washington, DC and Los Angeles. I actually live in St. Louis, Missouri. Uh, but hu big, huge fan of Utah. Been to Utah many times, and, uh, love, love the great people and great culture of, uh, the state of Utah. So, as Representative Peck was saying, the Baby Olivia video, uh, is a medically accurate animated glimpse of human life in the womb from the moment of fertilization. The story is narrated and is about three minutes. It details Olivia's growth as she progresses from one developmental stage to the next in preparation for her continued life outside of the womb. The, the facts of Baby Olivia are in chronological order, starting from the moment that she is created in fertilization. And, uh, it tracks a lot of extremely important and interesting developmental milestones. So most of the development facts that are shared in Baby Olivia are sourced from a group called the Endowment for Human Development, which is a completely non-partisan and, uh, scientific organization that is committed to neutrality regarding controversial bioethical issues. And so it's just the facts. There's really, uh, nothing controversial inside the Baby Olivia video. This is just facts about how the baby develops. One question that is sometimes asked about the Baby Olivia video that, um, is good to discuss, and I'm happy to also ask, answer any questions that people have about it, is the developmental facts about baby Olivia are all using conceptual age. So oftentimes, you know, almost every time, right, when a woman is pregnant and she's going to a doctor like a clinician, they're using gestational age or last menstrual period, which is, of course an an estimate. Um, so gestational age refers to the length of pregnancy after the first day of last menstrual period. And it's usually expressed in weeks and days. Conceptual age is the true fetal age refers to the length of pregnancy from the time of conception. And so the reason why the video uses conceptual age is that it's more accurate when you're trying to date how you know the baby's development. Because as everyone probably knows, using last menstrual period, for one, it's an estimate because we don't know the exact date of conception for any pregnancy. Um, and also it adds about two weeks. So instead of the heart beating at about three and a half weeks, when it actually starts beating from when the baby comes into existence, last menstrual period would say, well, the baby's six weeks old because it's adding two weeks where the baby, uh, didn't exist yet. The baby wasn't conceived yet. So that's one important factor to keep in mind in why we, uh, why we do that. And, uh, baby, the baby Olivia Law or Baby Livy acts similar legislation has been signed into law in six states. Those states are North Dakota, who is the first to do it in 2023. And then in 2024, Tennessee passed a similar law. And then last year in 20 25, 4 more states passed a law. That would be Kansas, Idaho, Indiana, and Iowa. Three I States. And, uh, Kansas is an interesting story too, because the, you know, Kansas has, um, one party controls the state legislator, another party controls the governorship, and the state legislator passed the bill. The governor vetoed it, and then the state legislator overrode the veto. The, that's how popular the law was in the state legislator. And so millions of public school students are now benefiting from, uh, fetal education laws. And we expect about, uh, over a dozen states at least, this, um, what's the word, legislative session, to be proposing similar laws to bring, uh, fetal development education to their states. And so I'm happy if anybody has any questions about, about the video, about the law, about how it was created, um, then I'm happy to discuss that and I can, uh, can be on as long as is helpful.

Representative Peck. Thank, I think that I'm just open to questions at this point.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you for bringing this bill. I do have a quick, quick question, though, when I'm reading this bill, it, it seems to state that the EEA shall provide, um, a video so it doesn't seem to necessarily signify, just says a high definition ultrasound video at least three minutes in duration with all these details. Mm-hmm. Um, so is it in, in fact, this video we're talking about, are we saying that, um, that as long as they meet the standards in the bill, they can, they can show a different video if they so feel like it?

I, if they felt like it, I suppose they could. Yeah. We're not being incredibly, uh, prescriptive on the brand of the video. And by the way, nothing will be branded. Nothing will say anything on it. It will just be the video itself that will be donated. Um, but it does say from an organization so that it's given from an organization so that there's not a for-profit, uh, reason why anybody would have, you know, to give that video. But the intent is to use this video 'cause it's so short and nice, it's three minutes. It wouldn't cut into a lot of class time.

Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I'm just wondering, I've had a few emails talking about how, um, this isn't age appropriate, um, to talk about these things at this age. Do you have a response to that or is there anything in here that isn't age appropriate? I know we've been talking about that a lot as far as our libraries.

Yeah, for sure. I, I am a big fan of things being age appropriate. Of course. No, there is nothing graphic in this. And in fact, I think that's one of the things that's so beautiful about this video is that is so tastefully done. Um, it shows how a baby moves in the womb. It shows the kind of a little bit of personality that a baby could have and what the development is looking like at all the different stages. But it's not something that's graphic or would be titillating in any way, or there's nothing like that, um, in this, in fact, I feel like there's going to be just a lot of really interested little light bulbs that go off in the child's minds, but also it's show, we're showing it in fifth and sixth grade in maturation. I mean, we're already talking in maturation about how babies are made and how our bodies work and how we're maturing and why. And this is a perfect piece of the conversation. I,

I would agree. And, and thank you for that. I was trying to figure out, you know, where they were coming from with, with that perspective. But if we think about the fact that we as a state have decided to make sure that all kids receive maturation to talk about their changes in their body, the most important thing is why those changes are important, I think, and what it can lead to. And I just think back, you know, with my own pregnancies and bringing my kids, um, to see the ultrasounds of their siblings, um, being able to see that progression. And, you know, I, I think so many times we hear people say, oh, you know, a a baby's just a clump of cells. Well, that might be accurate at the very, very beginning, but those cells quickly change and differentiate into different organs and different tissues and then into limbs and, and everything else. And then, you know, if you can start watching cardiac activity when that happens, and different responses, I think that an understanding of biology and of our own human biology is, is really important. So, um, I, I'm glad that you brought this to us today. I, I think it does just enrich and expand the whole purpose of why we're teaching, um, maturation and health in general to begin with. So thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I, I think this is beautiful. I I like the video. Uh, my question is, is in regarding CU curriculum, like what are we teaching right now? Are we not teaching this currently? No.

In our maturation, this Is a whole, um, so, So kids aren't learning how babies form in their maturation classes in human development. They're not learning those developmental stages of how a how a baby grows. Mm-hmm.

Okay. I'd be interested to hear from in the comment section if, from our state Board of education and see what the curriculum looks like.

Yeah. I mean, if so, I'm wrong and I'm happy, happy to be wrong, but then hopefully this would add right to it. Sure, sure.

So, sure. I, I, I just, it, it just seems crazy to me that we, we have maturation programs and talk about how the body works, but we're not talking about that. So that's would be surprising to me.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, representative, do you, um, do you know how uh, curriculum is created and how it's added to, uh, created and, and approved? Do you know the process?

Well, there's a lot of different ways that it, that, that happens. Sometimes it is legislatively mandated that it has to happen sometimes. Um, such as things like safety curriculum, sexual abuse curriculum, those types of things. They're started in the legislative process. And then sometimes there's a procurement process that happens and sometimes there's a, Hey, we're gonna actually use this vendor process that happens. Sometimes it starts from the USBE saying, we have a need here in our standards, so we wanna fulfill that. And then they start looking for things in that way. Sometimes a vendor comes to them and says, we have something good to offer. And then they say, Hmm, I wonder if that fits into our standards. And then they decide if they want to fit it in their standards. So there actually are a lot of different ways that curriculum can come into the school system.

Um, well, you didn't ever mention teachers, you know, they do have Sure. Sorry about that. They Do, they do summer workshops, they discuss curriculum. That's a big part of what they do. But it starts with the State Board of Education improving standards. And then one, one thing I have learned is that, uh, from the legislature, you know, after being a teacher, is that there's nothing teachers dislike more than having things thrust on them that they didn't ask for, that they didn't help create. So we get all these vendors coming to public ed a probes. Many of 'em were denied this year. We don't really have the funding. And, um, they, um, they're, they're available if teachers want to use them, but they're not mandated. So I, it's just not passing bills and saying, now this becomes a part of the curriculum. It starts at the state board and they approve standards and then it goes from there. But I also wanted to, um, just question Mr. Bra saying that it's scientifically accurate. I don't know what his background is as to make that assessment. It appears that he has a certain agenda, but, um, I have three cousins who have all been OBGYNs in Ogden. If any of you from Ogden, I'll tell you later, they are, you'd recognize their names and an uncle I'd be much more, um, if an OB GYN you know, said, looked at it and said, yes, this is scientifically and medically accurate. Because I don't know if Mr. Brand has that kind of background. I mean, just to say that doesn't mean it's, so that's all I'm pointing out. Sure.

He probably could answer that for you if you'd like.

Thank you, representative. Yeah, I mean, great points. I'm not a, I'm not a medical doctor, so that's a great point. But the baby Olivia Bill was developed in collaboration with a whole team of experts in embryonic and fetal development. Um, I'll read a few of their names. I know it doesn't, it doesn't mean anything because they're not here right now. Uh, we could certainly get them set up a call with you or have 'em speak to the committee at a later date. But Dr. David Bolander, Dr. Donna Harrison, Dr. Tara Sander, sander Lee, Dr. Katrina Firth, Dr. Jeffrey Barrows, who's vice president at the Christian Medical and Dental Association, and a medical doctor. Um, they each worked on and endorsed this project. And, uh, so they're, you know, I, and then there's also, we, we, I'd be happy to, um, to work, work with Representative Peck to bring in an OB GYN to, um, walk the committee through it if they would like. But the great thing about it is, yes, it was, this was developed with a team of doctors, but also these facts are easily verifiable, you know, know thing. Things like, uh, you know, at three weeks, in one day, just 22 days after fertilization, the baby's heartbeat can be detected. That's just a, you know, that that's any, any OB GEO, any, any doctor could tell you that. And then you also, many women who went, who Uintah the doctor. Now, they would be told, like I said, a woman goes to the doctor there. That's three weeks. Three and a half weeks is about five and a half weeks from last menstrual period. So that timing could seem a little bit different. And if you don't understand the context of, uh, dating from conceptual age or gestational age, but the video is definitely scientifically accurate. And, but I appreciate the question. And, um, would be happy to, to bring in any medical doctors or set Representative Peck up with any medical doctors who can, uh, attest to it.

Marianne Christensen, I'm Executive director of Utah Legislative Watch. I've also been asked to speak in favor of the bill for Utah Eagle Forum, so that they can be one of the ones that vows out today. Um, I have been a, a big fan of increasing people's appreciation of something by displaying to someone, to someone exactly what they should appreciate. And I think we have failed in this respect, um, helping people understand what's happening when a baby is developing during pregnancy. And I think that we've, uh, societally, we now have, um, uh, kind of a cavalier attitude about life. And I think we fixed that through this bill. Let, actually letting them see, um, when I was a young mom, I used the book, A Child is born by, um, Lenhart Nielsen. You can still get it in paperback, but, um, I would sit down with my tiny toddlers and show them, this is where your, your brother is right now. This is what he looks like inside my belly. And they were so excited to have that baby come by the time they were born. So please vote for the bill. Thank you.

Good Morning representatives. I'm Julie Jackson, and I'm on the Granite School Board, but I'm here to represent myself. Um, I am here to say that I, uh, had the same holes in my knowledge, Representative Peck and would sure love for kids to be able to understand what's going on, um, with human development and human life. My, uh, I, I encourage you to vote against this bill, however, because I think it's prescriptive to LEAs. I think that, um, it would be great to have a standard that we learn about these things, um, and then let them and teachers come up with curriculum. I don't know of another. There are very few places in our curriculum where we are told, here is the video that you need to teach. And in a little research, uh, Representative MacPherson, I found that I, I can't find another video that's within three minutes. It's so prescriptive, it would be very hard to find. And also, I just wanted to mention that a quick Google search showed me that the, um, American Academy of, um, obstetricians and Gynecologists criticized this as actually not medically accurate. So I just wanna make sure you had that information. Thank you. Please vote against it.

Hello, Mr. Chairman. I'm Phyllis Kimmel, and I'm representing the Worldwide Organization for Women. I ask you to vote for this bill because it's for the very reasons that many others have mentioned. It really does give an accurate, uh, description of how a child is developed in the womb. Um, it's done very respectfully, and, um, if any parent has, uh, a disagreement with this or anything, they can always opt out of it. And, as you know, say that they don't want this. But, uh, I think it's very valuable. Thank you.

Good morning, chair and members of the committee. My name is Brittany Brennaman, and I am the Director of Community Education at Planned Parenthood Association of Utah. I'm a trained health educator who has experienced teaching health and maturation classes, and I'm here to oppose HB three 15. Even with recent revisions, this bill remains problematic. Teaching topics like pregnancy, maturation, and healthy relationship requires context reinforcement, and above all, medically accurate information. Um, if false information is taught, young people lose trust while not explicitly named this bill would allow for the live action medically inaccurate Baby Olivia and Baby Oliver Videos to be used in Utah schools showing these fake ultrasound videos that leading medical experts describe as misleading, not only fails to teach students accurate information, it also makes them trust, lose trust in the classroom and the education system. Young people deserve medically accurate information that's age appropriate within the health education system, and I urge you to vote no on this bill. Thank you.

Good morning. My name's Mary Taylor. I am the President of Pro-Life Utah, and I would like to thank the sponsor for bringing this very important bill forward. I've wanted to see this type of legislation since the beginning of my pro, uh, life advocacy work. Now, many of you know that I got into this work because of decades of struggling with the regret and the heartache of choosing an abortion when I was a teenager. Now, that was many years ago, but unfortunately, that same story is still happening today. You see, at 19 I had absolutely no idea, no understanding about human development inside the womb. And so when I was told by an abortion clinic counselor that my baby was nothing more than a clump of cells the size of a pencil point, I had no reason not to believe her. I would later find out that my baby was about two and a half inches long, complete with heartbeat, brainwaves little fingers and toes. She was doing little somersaults inside my womb. This realization was devastating. Let's give today's school children a better chance. Thank you.

Good morning, representatives. I'm a family physician. My name is Catherine Caldwell. I've delivered hundreds of babies in the Salt Lake Valley, and just wanted to speak my opposition to this bill. Um, as others, uh, um, who've also been in opposition of stated, it is a sensationalized and inaccurate and a misleading representation of fetal development. Um, I think that presenting, uh, the fetal heartbeat is starting at just over three weeks of gestation is quite different from six weeks. And, um, our, our children de deserve a medically accurate information. And, um, from an unbiased source, I believe that it's, uh, not, uh, a good idea to get our information, uh, from a pro-abortion or pro, pro-life group. Um, it would be much better to have a collaboration and have this be an unbiased source where we get our information. Thank you for your time.

Hi. Okay. My name is Terry McCabe. I'm from Provo. And, um, I, I just, my son is in the backseat, but we just told him yesterday that Santa wasn't real and that was really sensitive. And he will be in the age group in third grade to watch this video. And he's not mature enough to watch this. I'm also concerned that the sponsor of the bill did not coordinate with USBE to see if this is should go in the curriculum. Curriculum. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Amy Warren. I represent Utah, PTA, um, and I reside West Valley. In West Valley City, Utah. Um, Utah, PTA has taken a position of a local issue on this bill. Um, section Human development curriculum has long been the job of individual LEAs. Each lea a has their own committee to that. It consists of parents and, and faculty to look over information and materials and approve those materials. This skips that process along with providing it for all K, not K, sorry, three through 12 graders, rather than other maturation programs that, or that wait till fifth grade. Also, we would like to express our concern that this is opt out and not opt in. All other human development courses are opt in and parents have to say that they can participate rather than opt out. So we would encourage you to remember that, um, curriculum is a local issue and we have our LEAs there for a reason. And we have USBE there for a reason. And we would encourage you to listen to those voices and keep curriculum in the individual LEAs. Thank you.

Hi, um, Molly Hart, state Superintendent for Public Instruction. Our board has not taken a position on this bill, so I want to share some information. Information only. Um, we currently have standards that cover this content. Middle school, uh, standard HD four and high school standard HD three already include conception, fetal development, and birth healthy pregnancy practices, pregnancy prevention and contraception, contraceptive, uh, effectiveness adoption in the Safe Haven law. These standards do not mandate a specific instructional format. LEAs may use charts, readings, teacher instruction, or videos. We already use accurate age appropriate resources. The districts do show a video for fetal development, but they choose their own aligned to their communities and approved processes. This bot this, the legislation, um, the state board and the legislature has spent considerable time on approving, uh, practices, um, uh, and procedures for, uh, uh, for vetting curriculum. And this is not it. Um, they have their processes, they follow their processes, um, in their communities. Nearly all LEAs use, um, uh, videos already, um, that are medically accurate. Uh, this shifts to a specific video that is not vetted by each community, and that is a major departure. And, and I think we need to look carefully at that because, um, those processes were developed. Um, um, painstakingly, um, this mandate also reaches beyond Health to CTE Pathways Science Courses and Bio Ag programs, none of which are currently teach this content. And we need to be careful of unin unintended consequences. It would insert pre pregnancy instruction into classes where it does not fit the standard scope or teacher preparation. Um, we already vetted this video. It did not meet criteria, so we've got a lot of work to do here, um, on this. I just want to make sure that, um, we are very careful in this space. We've been careful up till now. We don't need to let go of our checks and balances and, and, uh, I look forward to being able to work on this, uh, this bill to get it to the right place. Um, please just also remember that our standards based system, our law, the laws that, that are set, emphasizes teaching required standards, not prescribing one specific tool or vendor resource. And this would be a departure from that. I just want everyone to be, uh, aware of, of some of the trade-offs here, so that we make good decisions and we don't put the schools and our teachers, our educators in positions, um, and our local boards in positions where, um, uh, their actions are indefensible. We wanna make sure that, that the laws are congruent. So thank you for, uh, for giving me the opportunity to share those thoughts.

I'm working on it now. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. I would like to make a motion that we adopt sub one of HB three 15. And I would like to speak to that,

Thank you. You know, there's been a lot of comment and I appreciate the perspective of the different stakeholders that are coming forward, but I wanna make a few things crystal clear. First of all, this is not a vendor, uh, bill, this is descriptive. There's not a specific video that is required under this bill. There was some, uh, disingenuous, if I could be so bold, um, feedback. And I'd just like to share with you some of the concerns of ACOG when they talk about this video. Here's one example. They state that the heartbeat at three weeks, at 22 days, and then they argue that at that stage, the structure is a primitive heart tube that exhibits rhythmic, electrical pulsing, not a fully formed heart with chambers and valves. Now, that distinction is a distinction like the, it's not a distinction. Here's another, um, example of their concern. They argue that the video uses days since fertilization to track growth. And then they say most medical professionals track it from last menstrual period, and this creates discrepancy. Um, so when they're giving feedback about a, the bill doesn't require a specific video, but also the feedback is frankly silly because there is no fifth or sixth grader that is thinking about, oh my gosh, this is not medically accurate. Because some medical professionals use LMP and some medical professionals, sometimes we'll refer to actual fertilization. So again, I like, let's be honest about what this bill does. I support the bill and I urge the committee's support.

No, my light. Sorry. Okay. Thank you.

I really appreciate that, but I think we actually want the first, um, oh, sorry. Okay. So the substitute, then the amendment. Sorry, yeah. This, yeah, we'll need the amendment too. Thank you. Yeah, I think we're doing this in the right order.

I will waive. Thank you.

I move the amendment Representative, uh,

I'd like to move that we favorably recommend House Bill three 15. First substitute as amended.

I would committee. There's always controversy when we're, it seems, and, and this happened last year, uh, with one of Representative Peck bills. There's controversy when we want to share truth with young people. Um, this doesn't, again, this is not a vendor bill and it doesn't require a specific video, but if schools want to use this video, they can please vote for this bill.

Um, I move, um, I'd like to substitute motion. Sorry.

Um, my substitute motion is that we move to the next agenda item. I don't think this bill is really ready, um, in the sense that we've discussed it. It's, um, it's not going through the proper process to get it, uh, as part of a curriculum. It completely takes teachers out of that, uh, area. It starts with the State Board of Education, as you heard our superintendent say. And I mean, maybe another time, but I don't think it's ready for us to pass it and say, oh, this will now be part of a curriculum. This is, there are a lot more people involved than just a, a handful of legislators here. So that would be my motion that we move to.

Um, I would not consider that a friendly motion. I think that this bill opens a door for educators to be able to use this video, and I think that there's a lot of people who would probably welcome it. I'm happy to talk with anybody about anything. Um, the USBE reached out to me only about a date that is changing in the amendment that we just changed. That is it. And so, um, any other things that they wanna talk to me about, I am happy to have conversations going forward with them, but I think this is an important piece of legislation that can really help add extra resources to this area of discussion of the schools.

Mr. Chair. Um, I'd be opposed to that motion. This, uh, bill standardizes expectations across districts. And just as the legislature sets minimum standards in math, reading and civics, it's also appropriate to ensure consistent instruction in human biology. The bill doesn't remove the state board's role in developing standards or educators, professional discretion in delivering instruction. It simply ensures that key biological components are included. Nothing I heard in this bill requires this exact video. The bill calls for age appropriate scientific content focus on biology and development. Ultrasound and embryological videos are factual medical tools used in healthcare settings every day. Providing accurate visuals supports comprehension, and we advocate for including visuals in many subjects to enhance understanding. It expands access to objective. Biological information strengthens parental involvement, which I always love and ensures consistency in curriculum. It keeps the focus on scientific precision rather than ideology and equips students to make informed responsible decisions grounded in knowledge. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I think I'm gonna speak in opposition to this as well. Um, and I want to just kind of address one thing that I think was brought up here. Um, that, that the curriculum needs to be developed and go through this process, and that there is this process in place we want at the local level. But I seem to recall last year that after 50 years of having Planned Parenthood providing services in schools in Utah, it took the legislature, um, to say, no, stop. Don't do that anymore. We made them. And that was disruptive to schools because they had been providing these services, uh, um, a pro-abortion organization providing maturation and sex ed type services into our schools for more than 50 years. And those were decisions made at the local level. Um, and we, we decided as a state, because the state is a pro-life state, and we have pro-life policies, and we have pro-life ed, uh, education, um, requests that come from our constituents. And, uh, yeah, we disrupted public education by saying, you gotta get 'em out. And that only happened seven or eight months ago Now that, that went into effect. This is another disruption, I think, to public education. I can understand they might be upset by it, um, but I don't think it's very prescriptive. I think maybe it's more saying, if this is the only video that exists today, maybe we should get out there and find more. If, if LEAs want to have the, the freedom to show this type of information to students, then they can look to organizations to help develop those. Um, I don't see anything in the bill that says they have to use this particular video. That's why I asked the question earlier. But I do think it's disruptive to the public education in a good way. Um, I would oppose the motion to move to the next agenda item, um, and think that the underlying motion is appropriate.

Thank you. Um, Mr. Chair. I, I support the motion to move on. I, um, I, I agree completely with the importance of teaching human growth and development. Our kids need to have that knowledge and need to understand that and really applaud the sponsor, um, for the work that she's done in this area and, and for sharing the video with us. Um, but I do think that the standards are already there. Um, and I think mandating a three minute video is, does become too prescriptive. Um, especially at a time when, um, we've, or passing a bill through this session that's, uh, severely restricting and prohibiting screen time, and we're emphasizing asking our teachers to emphasize hands-on, um, print-based material. Um, so for that reasons, I would be opposed to Manding a video.

Um, I'm gonna speak in favor of the motion. I'm a pro, I'm pro-life, um, very much so, but I am concerned about prescribing a specific video.

Yeah. I think to move to the next agenda item is a hostile motion. And I think that it actually, um, it actually is putting, um, a, a, a picky thing about, um, a, a procedural thing that somebody wants to nitpick about in order to undermine the bill above what this video and this training would do. I think we have to put the, the truthful education out there first. I, you know, I've been in, um, I have been in these committees. I was part of the parent approval committee in my local school district for health curriculum. And let me tell you, they just adopt stuff from other places all the time. And it actually was like refreshing to the committee when there was something that they knew was already approved that they could already use. Otherwise, we were sitting there saying, well, wait, that person also does videos on B**M, but they do this one video on the brain. Should we put that in front of the children? You know, and that kinda stuff. And we're going back and forth on these types of things. How wonderful would it be to have something that these local LEAs could actually use and know was okay to use? And that's what we're trying to provide here. Again, they can do it however they want to because it doesn't prescribe a certain video, but this video does exist and it's appropriate. I, I'm just trying to open the door and I feel like that this is very possible, uh, to move forward and, and I can make any tweak after it. But this is the last committee of this session to do this. And so, you know, basically you would be killing it because you wouldn't want to help me tweak a word here and there or something.

Thank you. We're very late in this session. We have two more meetings at this committee. Um, but with seven days left, I think it's too late in this session. This is something that take, should be more studied more, and I think it'd be an excellent thing to put on interim study, but I don't think it's ready to rush through right now at this point in the legisl in the legislature.

Do I, do I get to sum as the maker of the underlying

Thank you for that reminder. No Worries, no worries. Thank you. And I'll be really brief, but I just wanna remind the committee that, uh, the parent who spoke, who was very concerned about her child watching a video, um, parents have the right to opt out of this, this type of education. Uh, to, to the point. This isn't a pro-choice, pro-life bill. This is a pro-education bill. There are many different types of learning, and this is a video that shows to children exactly how they grew before they were born. It's such a beautiful opportunity for them to learn about their entire developmental process. And then the last thing I would say is this Bill has been public since the very beginning of the session. If the USBE and others had such grave concerns about this bill, there was plenty of opportunity to provide it throughout this session to Representative Peck. So I would urge the committee's opposing of this, of the motion.

I appreciate the motion. I think we've said a lot about it and I hope that we can get the support and make this go

I'll waive. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Chair and members of the committee, I'm happy to be here talking with you about second substitute HB three 15. There will be a doctor that makes a comment as part of my presentation. So if they Get to, why don't you tell us his name and what you think he's gonna say. Oh, I was gonna say his name is Dr. William Lyle if they want to promote him. And he's a board certified OB GYN in Florida. And he is a former department, um, chair as well. He's an instructor at the University of Florida and Florida State Medical School on OB GYN residency programs. Okay. And he's going to be talking about the value of this particular type of video in instruction. So he's in support. He's totally in support, yes. Okay, Thank you. So again, brief bv. Okay, well there we go. That was a really fast way to do that. Yeah. Um, but he'll be there if you need to ask him questions. Okay, perfect. I like that. So there we go. Fantastic. Okay. So basically what this bill does is it creates a minimum standard for teaching about human fetal development, which is part of the health standards. So in health one, they have to describe fetal development in health and that usually happens in eighth grade. In health two, they need to explain fetal development. Those are the words that are in the state standards and that's in 10th grade. And at this point, they could just say something simple like, okay, well an egg gets fertilized and then it becomes a zygote and then it becomes a fetus and dah, dah, dah. And then, you know, nine months later, here's the baby. But they did that for me. I remember, and I still did not understand what was going to happen in my baby in my body. When a baby was formed. I got, we got a joke gift for our wedding. It was a video called The Miracle of Life, a one hour video. I don't know if you've seen this, but it ends with an actual birth. It's a little bit like, whoa, there, you see that happen. Um, but it actually explained the conceptual development, like from conception, it showed it on video. And once that happened I went, oh, that's what happens when you have a baby. And it's really sad that I hit adulthood and didn't, finally, didn't fully understand that. So that is the gap that we're aiming to fill here at this point. A teacher could just explain really quickly those things, but videos teach so much more. We don't wanna burden the teachers. So it's just a required three minute video as at a minimum they could always pick more if they wanted to. They just have to follow what's outlined here. Um, that it needs to follow that stage of human development inside the u the uterus and mark certain things about the development of that baby as it's forming. But, um, basically USBE can pick whatever things they want to qualify for this. They have until 2028, um, to be able to do that. And um, we, I've had conversations with USBE, their language is represented here in the second sub. That's why it is a second sub because we had some conversations with them and they wanted to make sure, um, that all of their little boxes were checked to be able to get this into place, um, in the schools. And with that, I'm gonna call it a quick presentation and be open to any questions or any questions for the doctor who does happen to be joining us.

It's not true. It just gives specifications of what needs to be in the video. Okay. But, But are the specifications, this is important. So limited that there's only one video in existence today that would meet those. That's what I'm asking you. Well, I already know of two videos. Okay. What are they That could mean that one is called Baby Olivia and one is called Baby Oliver. It also the Miracle of Life video. That's not three minutes though. It's not three minutes, but it's over. It's just a minimum of three minutes. Okay. So it could be longer. If they wanna do a full one hour, they can. In fact, USBE does have the miracle of life already as a resource, but, and I know some schools are using it, but I don't think all schools are using it. Sure. And so this just gives them that for sure that there will be a little minimum expectation that they'll see at least three minutes of how a baby develops. But if the teachers wanna go longer and do the miracle of life, that's fine too.

Good afternoon, chair. I have to tell you, I have great classroom management skills. Yes. My name is Chelsea Acosta. I'm a veteran middle school health teacher of 17 years here in the Utah Public School system. I'm here speaking on behalf of myself and on my own PTO. I have continually served on the LEAs Human Sexuality Committee. In my previous district's equivalent, I was honored as one of the Utah Health Teachers of the year. My degree is in health and I'm highly involved in professional development at both state and national level. In the K through 12 system, I've been tracking this bill through the lens of a seasoned educator that thrives on structure and local control. The guardrails are already in place through structure and policies at both the local and state level policies. Give the LEA stakeholders constituents the control over the curriculum in a time when parental control is of the utmost importance. Our LEA policy gives parents the ultimate choice to opt out of certain components of the overall lesson or the lesson as a whole. This bill violates parental rights. This bill violates local control. This bill is too prescriptive and the bill is unnecessary.

Absolutely. Okay. It's already listed on the USBE, uh, permission slip that goes home to the parents.

Good afternoon. My name's Mary Taylor. I'm the President of Pro-Life Utah. Many of you know that I've been up here for many years advocating for pro-life bills because I did not receive this kind of education. You see, at 19 I had absolutely no understanding about human development inside the womb. When I was told by an abortion clinic counselor that my baby was nothing more than a klemp cells the size of a pencil point, I had no reason not to believe her. But I would later find out that my baby was about two and a half inches long, complete with a heartbeat and brainwaves little fingers and little toes. She was doing little somersaults inside my womb. This realization was devastating and I have felt I have dealt with decades of grief from this. Now, many years later, we see the very same thing in women in our post-abortive support healing. Please support HB three 15. Thank you.

Thank you. Hello, my name is Julie Jackson and I live in holiday and I'm here to represent all of the school board members, superintendents and business administrators in the state of Utah. And, um, we agree that I did not receive this kind of education and I am with, um, Representative Peck that we need this and we believe that so much so that we are teaching this. There is a standard already in our state that represents all of the things that are in that bill already. And we as, um, as local elected officials go through a very long process with lots of community engagement in order to figure out what curriculum is best for our kids. And we've already done that with this and got a great curriculum around watching all of those, teaching that standard. So voting against this is a vote for continuing best practices with curriculum engagement. Thank

Yes, I was with the Utah. And what's your school position? School? Um, I'm the president-elect of the Utah School Boards Association. And our, And everyone in that association agrees in opposition to this bill, the Association together. In fact, I believe it was unanimous, but I cannot promise that that's

Hello. Hello. I'm Phyllis Kimmel and I'm

Okay. I'm Phyllis Gimple and I'm representing the Worldwide Organization for Women. Um, this three minute video I did see and I was quite impressed with it, I thought was very good. Um, as for the concerns about parents, I, I look through the bill and it is all talks about, it's all on parental approval. So if a parent I, I gather from this bill, if a parent's uncomfortable about this video, um, they can, uh, have their child not see it. So anyway, I ask you to please vote for this bill. Thank you.

Good afternoon committee members. Um, I'm Katie Lowry. I'm the health education Specialist for Salt Lake City School District. I'm also the past president and I'm running again for the Society of Health and Physical Education, which is known as Shape Utah. Um, that currently represents 600 teachers in the state of Utah. Uh, so about half of those are either PE or health teachers. And I al also represent our board members, which are all in agreement with me and what I'm about to present. Uh, Chelsea Acosta is one of the teachers in my district, and I'd like to say she is spot on in her assessment of this bill because the legislation itself is unnecessary. It's quite redundant and it's overly prescriptive. Our current Utah law, which is the existing USBE standards and our established LEA protocols already ensure that fetal development is taught accurately. Um, and we are in compliance with state standards mandating, uh, the specific three minute video. Uh, even though, even though, you know, we've been told yes, you can show other things. But again, that goes back to being redundant 'cause they're already accessing, they're already using videos like Baby Oliver. I need to wrap it up Baby Olivia. Yes. Um, It just undermines our local control. Okay. As the district. Thank you. What's that? Oh, okay. Sorry. Thank you very much. Uh, I understand.

My name is Deanna Holland and I'm the Executive Director of Pro-Life Utah. I have a distinct memory of watching the video of the Miracle of Life as a child. It was so fascinating to see and to learn how I was made. 40 years after seeing this video, I still remember the experience, the knowledge and truth I learned about human development was so important that I can testify that it influenced decisions I made in my life. How I viewed myself, choices I made about sexuality and when to participate in something that was powerful enough to create life, how I viewed humanity and the sanctity of life. This is not controversial. This is arguably necessary. Um, there are many videos that you can utilize including National Geographics in the Womb and other shorter versions. I know I looked them up last night. Please support this bill.

My name's Danielle Cypress and I'm with Pro-Life Utah. Um, and I'll just be really brief 'cause I feel like a lot of the comments today have been about specifically that they're already doing things to teach fetal development. Therefore, this is redundant and unnecessary. I do think the video component of it is really important. If you can't tell when I walked up, I've had a front row seat for the last nine months to human development. And really even then, the only glimpse I get into my womb is in video form via ultrasound, um, or fetal dopplers and things like that. And so too many women are not learning that until they are pregnant. Um, because we have ultrasound technology. And I would love to see our students learn that in high school, um, before they make life-altering decisions.

Thank you so much. Maryanne Christensen, executive Director of Utah Legislative Watch. I'm here to speak in favor of the bill. You know, even here in Utah where we say we have large families, we are right now below replacement level. Um, our birth rate is 1.8 something percent. Replacement is 2.1. And so I think we need to get back to the place where we are encouraging our children to have families and babies where we give them the information they need to be excited and look forward to that occasion when it comes. And so I hope you'll vote for the bill. 'cause what it does is it offers a new resource that teachers can use. It's no mandate. So I think it's a a great bill.

Hey, thank you. I am, am opposed to this

I'm so sorry. My name is Charlotte Fife Jefferson. I am a Salt Lake City School Board member, and I serve on our human sexuality committee and that committee, um, every school district in the state of Utah has a sex ed committee that made up of parents and board members and teachers and you, you know, science teachers, biology teachers and parents are there we that approve curriculum. So, um, this would be really an affront to local control and parental involvement in establishing curriculum for our students.

That's, that would be harmful. No, no, no. I do. Is that scientific, is there anything unscientific about this? Um, the, the videos that they have been referring to are medic have been called medically inaccurate. Okay. What, what's inaccurate about how the formed in the womb? There were inaccurate weeks. Like the, the, the timeline was, is off. Okay. Also, there is not, there is a question about the heartbeat. There's, there's electrical pulse impulses, but it's not a heart. The heart isn't developed yet. So, um, many doctors have called these videos, um, misleading.

Thank you very much. You're welcome.

Yes. My name is Dr. Kelly Adams. I am the health Commissioner for Utah PTA.

Um, so Utah, PTA has taken a position of local control on this issue. Meaning that we believe that the LEAs and the communities should continue to teach the standards that have been set forth by the state school board using, utilizing materials that they choose? Um, I have, I am a board certified neonatologist, extensive training in fetal development fetal, um, and how our, how our babies, um, develop in the womb. I looked at the source material that they're concerned about. Um, I think it's very misleading. We should use the nomenclature that our medical community is using, not the weeks that they are presenting. Um, because if we want our students to go out in the community, just like our pregnant woman, um, recently just said in the audience, then when you say 24 weeks, so we should talk about 24 weeks gestation as your doctor gives it to you. So I think we're misleading our students by saying we can save babies at 20 weeks. Um, okay. I need to wrap it up. Yeah. Thank you. So really that is not true. I think if we are going to do the best that we can for our children here in Utah, we not only need high quality information, but we need medically accurate information. Okay. And we should let the locals decide.

Sure. Dr. Timothy Bass. I'm the Healthy Lifestyles Director for Davis School District. I live in Kaysville. Okay. So I'm also the chair for our human Sexuality committee. Um, I'm, I'm wondering why we have this video that has to be such, you know, it's scripted when we already have a, an avenue for that in place, which gives our parents, you know, a locus of control. Um, if it's a, a great video, as, as we're hearing from some people, um, why don't we just send it through our local control. The LEA, that's what our, you know, um, 50 3G tells us that we have to do anyway. If it's medically inaccurate, like the ac og, uh, organization, which is comprised of 60,000 medical doctors. That's pretty powerful. I need you to wrap it up. It's Medically inaccurate. Um, I, I'm not comfortable sending that through my committee.

You. Danny Bordeaux, Utah Eagle Forum. We speak in favor of this bill, even though some of the school districts say they are now currently doing this. We don't know that all school districts are doing it. And we also want to preserve this type of education, visual education for those, um, in the future. Thank

Thank you. I recommend that we pass with a favorable recommendation. House Bill three 15. Second. Second substitute to the full body of the Senate.

Really short. Um, doctors made this video. There was a list about eight doctors that have made these types of videos and put 'em together for people. There was mention about in, uh, the weeks of pregnancy, there are two different ways to calculate weeks. Uh, LMP, which is last menstrual period, and then conceptual age. And so some of the videos that they could access, like Baby Oliver will track both of those. Um, if they wanna make sure that they're talking about conceptual age and last menstrual period. So there shouldn't be a problem there with what is available out there. Um, it's very medically accurate. And also, my last thing is just in 50 3G, we are very prescriptive when it comes to health education. Um, we tell a lot of things you can do and things that you can't do. That's probably one of the areas of the code that we, we do feel like it's okay to get prescriptive. And this is an opt-in because it is part of sex ed.

I will. Okay. All in favor of the motion.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that we adopt the second substitute. Thank

Yes. When this bill was discussed earlier on, there were a few questions we needed to make some changes to make it so that everybody felt a little bit better about the bill. Also, we incorporated a lot of input from USBE. So this new language reflects what USBE would like to see going forward with this bill.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. This bill is a bill that will bring some vital instruction into our classrooms, into our health classes. So in eighth and 10th grade, we study, uh, reproduction and human development. And there are some resources that teachers can use, but this will be a new resource that they can use to help the students understand the development of a baby. They'll be able to see starting a conception when the baby starts developing its heart movements. When the baby's arms start developing, it's a beautiful tasteful video that's about three minutes in length that teachers will be able to use in their health classes. It's provided free to the state with a perpetual license that can always be used by our state. Um, there are many women who reach the age of and the phase of their life when they're actually having children who don't even know what's going on inside their own bellies. And there are many men that don't understand well that's what's happening with their children that are developing as well. So what this does is it brings some vital information to that human development section of the health classes so that there's never any question about the speed and process of human development. And it's done in a very tasteful way. And with that, I'm open to any questions.

Will the sponsor yield?

It appears in the sub, the ages three through or three through 12 or, or, um, school year three through 12 is stricken. So what ages does it apply or what years of school does it apply to?

Yes, it's going to be in the eighth grade and 10th grade health classes in the human development sections that are already covered according to that curriculum in our state.

Thank you. Can you tell me where I can find that in the sub? Um, that's a really good question, but it should say just within the health classes, uh, is what it should say make available.

Mm-hmm. Well, human development inside the Honduras, let's see, is supposed to say in the health classes might have asked a good question that I might have to look at. Anyway, that's what it's for. I'm looking for the, I'm sorry, I don't wanna take time, Mr. Speaker. Um, but that is what this is intended for, is for the health classes. And if we need to amend to put that, um, it, it says human development includes at a minimum. Um, I think it's in the existing language, which is why I'm having a hard time finding it. Mr. Speaker. Um, may I Oh yeah, I, I was wondering if somebody might circle this just for a minute and make sure that what we, the, the wording that we need and there's actually in there.

Yeah, thanks. I move to circle the bill.

Yes. Sorry to take my colleague's time on that. I'm pretty sure that it is included in the other part. We'll find it and bring it back real quick.

Yes. When this bill was discussed earlier on, there were a few questions we needed to make some changes to make it so that everybody felt a little bit better about the bill. Also, we incorporated a lot of input from USBE. So this new language reflects what USBE would like to see going forward with this bill.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. This bill is a bill that will bring some vital instruction into our classrooms, into our health classes. So in eighth and 10th grade, we study, uh, reproduction and human development. And there are some resources that teachers can use, but this will be a new resource that they can use to help the students understand the development of a baby. They'll be able to see starting a conception when the baby starts developing its heart movements. When the baby's arms start developing, it's a beautiful tasteful video that's about three minutes in length that teachers will be able to use in their health classes. It's provided free to the state with a perpetual license that can always be used by our state. Um, there are many women who reach the age of and the phase of their life when they're actually having children who don't even know what's going on inside their own bellies. And there are many men that don't understand well that's what's happening with their children that are developing as well. So what this does is it brings some vital information to that human development section of the health classes so that there's never any question about the speed and process of human development. And it's done in a very tasteful way. And with that, I'm open to any questions.

Will the sponsor yield? Yes. And Peck, will you yield to a question? Yes. Representative.

It appears in the sub, the ages three through or three through 12 or, or, um, school year three through 12 is stricken. So what ages does it apply or what years of school does it apply to?

Yes, it's going to be in the eighth grade and 10th grade health classes in the human development sections that are already covered according to that curriculum in our state.

Thank you. Can you tell me where I can find that in the sub?

Um, that's a really good question, but it should say just within the health classes, uh, is what it should say make available.

Mm-hmm. Well, human development inside the Honduras, let's see, is supposed to say in the health classes might have asked a good question that I might have to look at. Anyway, that's what it's for.

I'm looking for the, I'm sorry, I don't wanna take time, Mr. Speaker. Um, but that is what this is intended for, is for the health classes. And if we need to amend to put that, um, it, it says human development includes at a minimum. Um, I think it's in the existing language, which is why I'm having a hard time finding it.

Mr. Speaker. Um, may I Oh yeah, I, I was wondering if somebody might circle this just for a minute and make sure that what we, the, the wording that we need and there's actually in there.

Let's go to Representative Christofferson. Yeah, thanks. I move to circle the bill.

Yes. Sorry to take my colleague's time on that. I'm pretty sure that it is included in the other part. We'll find it and bring it back real quick.

Thank you. I appreciate the patience of the body as we worked out some questions that were, uh, brought to my attention earlier. So we did find that the answer to the question, which, uh, was posed in the previous debate is in lines 1 52 and 1 53 and it talks about how, um, the schools need to at least two times a year, um, between the beginning of grade seven and the end of grade 12, provide the instruction in health and human development. And that usually happens in our state. In fact, I think it always happens in our state, in the ages or in grades eighth grade and 10th grade is when they're doing that. So basically what this bill does is it creates an opportunity for schools to have a video that is just three minutes in duration. It is a, a video that is not branded by any particular organization or anything like that. And it is, and they can choose other, you know, whatever videos that they want. There's current videos out there like this. But basically it shows fertilization. It shows the growth of a baby inside the womb. And this is something that can help people understand from a very young age how life begins, what it looks like when it's growing inside of you, and just how fragile that little human life is that's inside the womb. And with that Mr. Speaker, I am open to any questions,

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a couple of questions? Representative Peck, will you yield to a series of questions?

Yes. Yes, representative.

My question is, Mr. Speaker is what are they doing now, if anything?

So they do have a human development section in the health curriculum. There are some videos that they can choose from, but those videos are not necessarily this detailed. They don't show that moment of conception when that fertilization happens. They don't show the same things that are developing that this particular type of video would show, especially at that conceptual age. And so this will just be an addition to the curriculum that they already have, and it'll be something very simple and free that the schools can utilize and that USBE has worked with me on to make sure that the language is correct so that they will be able to have complete ownership over what goes on.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One more question. Um, you said there would be no branding on the video, but who's gonna make the video, Mr. Speaker?

Sure. Well, there anyone could make a video that meets the certain specifications. There is one video already. It is called the Baby Olivia video. There are other ones also, I think there's one called Baby Oliver as well. Um, the baby Olivia one is the one that I'm the most familiar with, but these videos are just so beautiful and they can u they can see them and they can be given to our schools without any type of branding whatsoever. But, uh, there also could be other videos out there that could meet the same criteria.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Thank you Representative.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a question? Representative Miller, will you yield to a question?

Yes. Sorry.

Thank you. So currently there's a process at each LEA level to select sex ed curriculum. Um, that involves parents, educators, and, um, health professionals. So they have to review and select the curriculum, and then the governing board of the LEA has to vote, um, on approving that in a public meeting. Would this bill, um, bypass that process?

So it, the video would not need to go through the current process. The video is basically going to be provided by USBE. So just like many of the materials are currently, the other videos that they have to use in health class are also provided by USBE, unless they are ones that they decide on outside of the ones that USBE provide. Um, this would just be one of those that's also provided by USBE.

May I have a follow up question? Representative Peck, will you yield to a series of questions? Yes, yes, representative. Thank you. So, so this will be provided by USBE, but then is the LEAs still required to put this video through their normal approval process? And they can choose to approve it or not?

They shouldn't need to put it through the approval process. It will already be approved across the state and they can use it in their curriculum.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a series of questions?

Yes, yes. Representative Arthur. Thank

You Mr. Speaker.

The requirements for the video seem very specific to me, and as you said, I believe there are a couple of specific vid, I'm sorry. As the, as the sponsor mentioned, I believe there are a couple of specific videos in mind. What if, uh, an LEA chose a standard definition video? Would they be in violation of the statute?

It would need to follow what's in the statute. So it needs to be high definition video so that they can see the details of the developing baby. That's the whole point of the video. And if, like, if they were to show an ultrasound, which is another option that they have also here in this piece of code, it would need to be a very high resolution, high definition so that they can actually see what's going on. I'm sure many of us understand how difficult having seen ultrasounds, it can be to make out certain parts of the baby, but if it's really high definition, then they can see things very, very clearly, especially the heart and the lungs. They can see the arms and legs moving. The whole idea of this video is to allow them to see that life that is forming inside of the womb.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My next question is why, why at least three minutes?

Well, because it takes a little bit of time to actually see all the different weeks of development, and I think it's really positive in some of these videos that I've seen that are three minutes in length, some of them just a little bit longer than three minutes, where you can see them going week by week in what is developing within that baby as it grows inside the womb. It gives them enough time to see that gradual process. If we rush over it too quickly in a shorter period of time, then they may not be able to really take in the true formation of this life that's happening inside of the mother.

Thank you for that answer. Uh, Mr. Speaker, I, I find this bill problematic because it seems to me like statute or, or legislation that has been written to match with a specific piece of curriculum rather than the other way around. And education, typically an idea will, will develop based on a problem that's been identified by constituents or by schools or educators. And we as a legislative body, will rise to the occasion and develop legislation to address that problem. When I read this bill, it reads to me like there is a piece of curriculum, a specific video that that is seeking to be used in the classroom. And this bill has been developed to make it so that every LEA in the state must use this specific, uh, bit of information. And I, I, I find that troubling as an educator. I think that the better way to approach this would be to work in collaboration with our schools, our LEAs and our state board to develop curriculum as is already the process that matches the needs and standards rather than trying to reshape code to match a product. So for that reason, I'll be voting no thank you.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this bill. It is very important that our young people when they're learning so many important facts in health class, that they also learn what the stages of development look prenatally. That is all that this bill requires. It does not require a specific curriculum. There is curriculum out in the marketplace that is absolutely free for anybody to use. That could be reviewed by the USBE and adopted. But this does not require the use of any particular curriculum. I urge the body's support so that our children can be truly educated about prenatal development. Thank you.

I I don't think we need to representative.

Thank you. I think I'll just say at the end that there are other states, six or seven states around the nation that have already done this. And so we would be in good company with those states. Um, even our neighbor Idaho has already done this piece of legislation. I don't think we should be afraid of showing our children what life looks like, how they were created, how they grow. I think that's a part of their knowledge that's going to serve them their whole lives as they learn to hopefully respect themselves, respect each other, and preserve and protect the lives of other people around them as well. So I urge my bo the my colleagues support.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to substitute HB eight with first sub.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we just need to make a substitute so the numbers are accurate and then we'll circle it so everyone has time to look at it for tomorrow, But we'll do that tomorrow 'cause it's not available for action today. So, uh, if everybody can look at that substitute online, that's what it will be substituted with tomorrow. Please do that. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Speakers. This to encircle or, okay, because I've got another one right up there too. Okay. Motion to encircle.