H.B. 323 Solar Panel Disposal Amendments: transcript

Thank you. We'll try to be brief, but, uh, I have with me former representative Tim Jimenez, so I can get, I'll give you the electrical engineer's perspective on what we're doing here, and he can give you the environmental engineer's perspective. Before you start, are you speaking to the second sub? Yes. And I want, and I, and I have a second sub that I want to move. Okay, perfect. And, uh, and I can tell you what the second sub does, is it eliminates, or it corrects a date that was in the first sub that we didn't intend to extend the deadline on a piece of code from last year. It was just, it just got caught up in the other changes that were in first sub. So second sub just backs out that one inadvertent date change, otherwise, the two subs do the same thing. Perfect. And, and that's the second sub. Thank you. Okay. So, uh, what, what this bill does, so talking about second sub now, um, is in the United States, in the 2005 Energy Policy Act, Congress enacted a lot of, uh, uh, rebates and, and incentives to do solar projects. And those took effect in 2007. And so starting in 2007 and kind of building up over time, more and more large scale solar projects got put in around the country. Now, if you listen to the engineers, solar panels have a lifespan of 20 years. If you listen to the salesmen, they'll say it's 30 years. So whether it's 20 or 30, either next year, 2027 starts, uh, rolling off great amounts of these, uh, dis spent solar panels, or maybe we have a couple more years. We'll see. Either way, either way, what, what to do with the spent solar panels. So what we've done in this bill is we've kind of created, if you think of a flow chart, and that's how I think, and I'm sure all of you do too, but if you go down this flow chart, what to do with, spent solar panels and you hit the decision diamond, the first decision diamond you get to is, do I recycle them or do I dispose of them? So we would, we would prefer that those be recycled. However, the recycling industry of solar panels is kind of in its infancy. I'm aware of a bill in, uh, Washington that mandated recycling. And the pushback from industry was, you're making us do something that doesn't exist. So, but also I'm aware of some recycling facilities around that are working in this space. So, but let's assume that the first, the first preference is to recycle these spent solar panels. But for the ones that you don't recycle, what do you do with those? Well, then they must go to some landfill. Well, so which landfill do they go to if it goes to a standard landfill or is this a hazardous waste? And the EPA has a test that you can do to determine that, then if it has been determined to be hazardous, then we have to dispose of them in the proper way, in the proper landfill, so as not to create major Superfund cleanup sites for the future. So, uh, briefly that's what this bill does. It sets up that process for disposing of spent solar panels, and we worked with the DEQ so that the timing is such that, that we can stand these programs up and implement fees so that the programs are paid for out of the user fees. And, uh, I guess that's the short, that's the electric, uh, that wasn't short, but that's the electrical engineer version. I would, I would let our, uh, environmental engineer maybe give you his other side of the story, if that's okay, Mr. Chair.

I'll try and be concise. Um, I'm Tim Jimenez. Uh, I've 19 years, uh, experience as a professional environmental engineer working in site remediation, um, mine and civil engineering. Um, I currently work for, uh, a company and I am, I'm on their, uh, site remediation team. So my full-time job is cleaning up hazardous waste, uh, in soils and groundwater. Um, I'm here representing myself. Um, so having worked in mines, oil, uh, fuel stations, all of these industries, um, they all rely on the fact that they set up a bond or some kind of program to pay for bad actors or older problems. In 1980, we passed the circle of laws. It's a comprehensive environmental, um, response. Um, sorry, it's been a while since I, a comprehensive, uh, compensation and, um, liability act. Basically, who needs to pay up for these old spill sites? Most companies that are still operating pay up for pay for their, their remediation, but a lot of sites that went bankrupt left, and then the public had to pay to clean up sites. So taxpayers are, were on the, on the, uh, on the, well, the ones paying, they were paying the bills for companies that had gone bankrupt or left. So you're cleaning up fuel stations, you're cleaning up mines, you're cleaning up hazardous waste sites. We didn't want to get to the point where 20, 30 years from now, a landfill decides to close and all of a sudden they've got hazardous waste in there. And, uh, now we're, as taxpayers paying to clean up. So as part of that, we looked at, well, what's going into a landfill that could be classified as hazardous waste? Right now, uh, the EPA has a test for determining if a solar panel is hazardous waste or not. However, there is no regulation saying, what do you do if it is hazardous waste? We wanna assure that the public does not have to pay for cleanup of landfills. That's, that would be an incredible cost. And since the mining industry, fuel production, um, battery companies, tire companies, all have programs that allow them to pay into bonds or pay into co uh, compensation funds to cover that cost. We just modeled this after some of those programs. There's nothing super set right now. What we're trying to do is get the DEQ to sit down with, uh, stakeholders and have that discussion of how do we set this program up so it's not punitive, so that we can push towards recycling and we can cover any of those. I wouldn't say, I guess you could say bad actors, people who don't consider this, um, when they're building or destroying, uh, removing, uh, solar panels. We wanna make sure that that's all covered, um, so that the public doesn't have to bear the brunt or the cost of any of the cleanup down the road. So we're, we're setting up a, a framework or a structure for DEQ to set it up. That's why timelines are several years out. We wanna make sure we get this right, rather than having to come back over and over and over again and, and tweak the bill.

So, uh, Mr. Chair, with your permission, um, we would have, uh, Tim Davis, who is the director of DEQ here, maybe come explain his role, because exactly as Tim Jimenez pointed out, uh, the first people we involved was the DEQ because they will be the one who owns this program. Uh, and so, uh, the directors here to explain how we've lined out that, uh, that flow chart, if you would. Great.

Welcome. Thank you, Mr. Chair Committee. Tim Davis, executive Director of the Department of Environmental Quality. I'll just call myself the lesser of the two Tims, uh, testifying in this bill. Um, so I, I appreciate, uh, representative Jack's leadership on this and, and working with us. We've been able to work with the industry and others to, uh, to get to sub, really sub one, but also sub two. Um, that sets up the process where industry is going to pay an assessment or a fee to cover the cost of us conducting a study to identify how best to recycle solar panels and, and how best to dispose, test and dispose of them. If they, uh, found out, uh, to meet the definition of hazardous waste, then to, from there, set up a, a long-term fee to cover the cost of the program. So as, uh, former representative Jimenez said, um, that the ultimate cost does not reside with taxpayers. Um, but ideally we can get, uh, create a program to where most of these, uh, of solar panels in the future are in fact recycled. Whether that's an industry here or taken to recycling, probably in neighboring states as an option too. So it's really a three phase process where we begin to set up the program, uh, we study how best to implement it as a fee to cover it. And then, uh, in 2028 is when the program really goes into effect. So I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Yeah, that concludes our presentation, uh, Mr. Chair,

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, these solar sites have been going in for a number of year now in Utah, and a lot of counties have, do you know, have the counties required bonds on all of those solar projects?

Well, thank you for the question. Um, I can tell you from my work in HB 16 where we had decommissioning so that that included decommissioning of these large solar plants, uh, but didn't really deal with panel disposal. I can tell you from working on that, that some counties have and some counties have not. And if I could follow up, uh, and those that have not, will they be responsible for the disposal and the fees and so forth with DEQ? Well, thank you. So this is the program that Director Davis was pointing out. Is that out because out, it's been uneven and in, in how things were administered for the last 20 years, as you pointed out. Um, we're, we're having to do some catch up, hence some fees now to stand up the program and to get our arms around what's the scope of it, and then the implementation of the plan and setting what the fees are then to administrate the program.

I understand that, but in some of these rural counties where a lot of these projects are going in, not only does the county may, they may not have a, a bond requirement with the solar company, but they also have a landfill that may not be big enough to handle a solar project. If it were to, I mean, your study is going to determine, you know, we, we take the panel off from the metal frames that are standing on the ground, and then those panels contain a lot of different things, critical minerals and so forth. Is your study to, to maybe process those to where you could extract those things, or is it not worth it? I mean, that, that's a projected question, but what do you think,

Mr. Chair? Um, so the study is going to look at how do we, how, how do we most effectively en re ensure that recycling occurs or that they're properly disposed of? What is the mechanism to require that to take place? Uh, going forward, we are going to be studying the linkage between the decommissioning plans and requiring, uh, that those plans have a plan, uh, to going forward to recycle. We're really trying to get to the place where ideally, they, they're largely, it's my understanding of two types of solar panels that most of the industry uses. One of them is more recyclable than the other. Um, but where we can, we really wanna make sure that there are, that as these, especially these utility scale solar, uh, uh, plants, uh, come to the end of their life, that we've got the mechanisms in place to make sure that those are recycled. And you can extract those, Uh, the, Uh, useful, uh, minerals out of them.

In your discussions with the, uh, the solar companies on this, um, do most of them plan to reinstall new solar panels once the old ones are retired?

Um, yeah. No, go ahead. Um, I, I would, I think there's somebody, Mr. Chair. Um, so yes, I think the, uh, that my conversation since many of the solar companies that we were talking about, um, are talking about that the life of their solar panels will be longer than they may extend the life, uh, longer. So even as they drop in efficacy, uh, that they will continue to use them, but they're, they're looking at, at some point it'll make economic sense to replace them with more effective solar panels, new technology. So we're, the conversations we've had with them are just, when is that time and have, you know, each, I would say each of them have probably different projections on how, when that occurs and why they, they'll make the change. But you'll, uh, I believe Mr. Chair, some, you'll, you'll hear from industry here, so you can also ask, uh, them that question as well.

Thank you. That's all for now.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I know we've been talking about, you know, big solar farms commercial. Is this gonna also affect, uh, rooftop solar? Yes, it will. Okay. Thank you. That's all I needed to know.

Safeguards. Yeah, He, he, he owns those landfills. Yeah, Mr. Chair, they're already safeguards for that to, to not take place. So if this is really setting up the whole program to stagger going forward.

Okay. And that fee is the, if I, if I may, Mr. Chair, um, that fee is really to allow us to start collecting that revenue as soon as possible to cover the bega, the standup of the program. And so, uh, it was deliberate to make it as, as quickly as we can, then we can move forward with getting that fee. And that is on those smaller, uh, solar providers. The, the longer, there's a longer la lag time for the, uh, utility scale that, because the tax commission will collect that, that assessment,

So there's two years of each of the fee and the assessment to stand up the program. And then during that, we'll be studying a long-term fee. Uh, the way I've been thinking about it is, you know, we have the used oil fee to cover, uh, recycling for used oil. We have u uh, we have, uh, recycled tire, I mean, uh, tire disposal. So something along the lines that long-term, those, we have two years of the fee and the assessment, they'll be replaced. We'll come back to you, uh, with a, a long recommendation for a long term fee.

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair and members of the committee. Uh, my name is Sam Johnston. I'm the policy director for Interwest Energy Alliance. Interwest is a trade association, and we represent the utility scale, solar, wind storage transmission, and geothermal industries in Utah and in five other states. And we are comfortable with, uh, the bill as written as presented in substitute two today. And, uh, wanna take the opportunity to thank Chair Jack and for, uh, uh, working with us on this policy. And also a tremendous thank you to Director Davis and Director Sonenberg. Uh, we were able to sit down with them and really kind of hammer out a policy that we think is a, a productive step forward for the state of Utah. Uh, also wanna point out that industry is funding this study that the department is going to conduct, uh, with this fee that you mentioned, Mr. Vice Chair. And, uh, you know, that reflects our, our commitment to being a good steward, um, of the communities where our projects are located in Utah. And, uh, also I'll say that we share Representative Jack's goal, uh, and also the divisions and the department's goals, uh, of really bringing a robust and, uh, robust, sustainable and viable solar panel recycling industry to Utah. And, uh, we think that represents a great opportunity for Utah going forward. Uh, so we're looking forward to continuing to work with the department and the division, including in this, uh, study that this bill is going to, uh, create, uh, and that, you know, hoping to bring, uh, make that goal reality.

Thank you, Mr. Vice chair, members of the committee. Good afternoon. My name is Shelby Stoltz. I am a government affairs manager for a large company called A-E-S-A-E-S is an international energy company, um, with an office here in Salt Lake City, about 120 employees here in the state. And, um, several operational projects. You may be familiar with one of our projects, um, Clover Creek Solar Project. It's in Juab County, just west of I 15. Today, I'm just speaking to thank the bill sponsor and the folks at DEQ, uh, for working with industry to solicit input and feedback from us, um, about what is sort of standard practice for end of life of our projects, and, um, giving us an opportunity to provide feedback on the rulemaking process. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, I command the sponsor for his forward looking vision on, on taking care of this problem. It's gonna be a big problem as well as wind will eventually too. I'm sorry you didn't include that in your bill, but maybe another day. There's another year next year, right? Um, I, I just wanna make a motion that we pass out favorably, uh, this bill and I, again, commend the sponsor for his forward vision. Sec. Second. I could say a lot more, but I'm not going to Mr. Chair.

Uh, okay. I'll, I'll make a motion. We adopt the second sub.

I'll withdraw the first motion and make a motion that we adopt the second sub.

If you'll let me carry on. I'll try to get it straight. I move that we pass out HB 3 23 second sub, um, solar panel disposal amendments. Representative Jack's bill as favorable recommendation.

Thank you. Just in conclusion, I'm grateful for the members of industry who came and worked with us for Engineer Jimenez who brought the, the environmental expertise, and for the director Davis and his whole staff who worked with us on this. I think we're in a really good place. And I'm looking forward to Utah kind of setting the example on how to deal with this going forward. Thank you.

I'll waive. All right.

Motion to saunter motion That we saunter for till somebody shows.

I have a motion to cease this honor.

Representative Jack, uh, solar panel disposal amendments. House Bill 3 23. Second substitute. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Here we go. So, uh, HB 3 23 Solar Panel Disposal Amendments. Uh, I've got with me, former representative Tim Jimenez, who is our environmental engineer, and also I have Tim Davis with the DEQ. And, uh, the subject matter is exactly as the name describes in that, uh, In that, if you, if you, uh, look at, uh, solar panels, and if you believe the engineers, they have a lifespan of 20 years. If you believe the salesman, you would say 30 years. But in either case, uh, we are coming up on the end of life for, uh, when solar panels first started getting installed, uh, in en mass, that started with the 2005 Energy Policy Act that gave a lot of, uh, incentives and tax credits to install these large solar fields. And, uh, worse is, so a lot of those are gonna start rolling off, say, starting this year and next. Um, and worse in the, in the earlier days, uh, solar panels were made, uh, with some toxic metals. And we'll let, uh, engineer Jimenez talk about that. But, uh, but the point is, is what do we do with these acres and acres of solar panels? Do we toss them in the landfill and let them turn that landfill into a hazardous waste, uh, and create a super fun cleanup site for the state? Or do we deal with it first? And, uh, the, the purpose of this bill is to deal with it first where, uh, if you, if you follow through the bill logic, what we're looking at is to, the first, first option would be to recycle those panels. However, recycling is in its infancy, and there's maybe not a lot of that available. Uh, but then if you go to disposal, which kind of dump does it go to? Does it go to a standard landfill or does it go to one that is built to handle potentially toxic waste? And the decision point there is the EPA has a, ti has a test, the TCLP, and that tells you whether or not it's toxic or not. Representative IE uh, in, in light of the time, I mean, we're 30 minutes over. I'm gonna ask you to give me your briefest presentation so that we can get forward on the bill. I don't sense there's a lot of issues, but, all right. So that Let's, that's what Bill does. Thank, thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll let, uh, rep Representative Jimenez tell you, uh, what I skipped over. And, uh, and if you want to ask Director Davis, any questions. Thank

You. Uh, real quick, welcome Back. Tim Jimenez, former rep, uh, for Illa, go toa. Um, I'm an environmental engineer, 19 years experience working remediation and site cleanup, uh, representing myself. Uh, real quick, the idea is landfills. Um, our, um, municipal landfills, um, can only take non-hazardous waste. Um, we know that if the tests are done, some solar panels qualify as hazardous waste. Some don't. Right now, there's not no bill in place to take care of this. Meaning hazardous waste can go into a municipal or non, non-licensed landfill. At which point down the road, those landfills now, uh, haphazard wasted 'em. They have to be reclaimed taxpayers now get to spend a lot of money reclaiming and a landfill that should have never had that waste place into it. We're just basically trying to keep taxpayers from having to pay for disposal fees and reclamation of landfills. Similar to taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for. You know, we, we have a, a small fine fee that goes with, uh, oil batteries, tires, fuel stations, even mines pay up reclamation plans. The idea is the user pays the disposal rather than the taxpayer paying for disposal and hazardous waste cleanup. That's what I have to say.

Just, um, really quick, what's the, what's the cost per, what's the estimated cost for the hazardous waste analysis per panel? I don't even know what that is or what that means, but don't you just assume it's hazardous waste? Uh, why do you have to have an analysis? Yeah. Solar Panel, there's an analysis. I'll pay a fee. Do do something with it.

Mi mr. Chair, uh, members of the committee, Tim Davis, executive Director of the Department of Environmental Quality, the, the analysis does not have a fee tied to it. Uh, at this point, it's, the bill is really staggered where it will create a study. There's, there's a fee in the study to, uh, to cover the cost of the study, as well as set up the program. And then in the, and the goal is to re, to set up the program to incentivize recycling, um, so that we don't have a lot these going into, uh, landfills. And it's only if somebody is disposing of, uh, panels and not recycling 'em, then we would do the analysis for whether or not it's a, a hazardous waste. So it's really kind of staggering it out so that hopefully we don't have to do that.

We don't have to do that type of Analysis. Seems like it'd be simple. I, I take my oil in, I gotta get rid of oil, here's my money, dispose of my oil. I take a solar panel and I don't wanna biohazardous analysis. Here's my panel, here's my money. Dispose of it. Lemme do that right now. Right. Why, why are we doing the analysis thing? I still don't understand. I may, maybe I'm getting it towards the end of the day, Mr. Chair. I'm getting ornery, so I apologize if I'm coming up on me. It's, it's been a long day, and we apologize to this, and I apologize that, you know, being the last committee, we didn't have a lot of flexibility to carry any of our mold.

Sorry. Uh, so in the world of remediation and hazardous waste, if it's non-hazardous waste, a homeowner wants to, they can crunch those things up, throw 'em in their garbage bin, they're hauled off. That's it. No harm, no foul. It doesn't cost much too. You can pay a contractor to dispose of them. When you move into the hazardous rate, ra, hazardous waste side of things, if it meets hazardous waste, it now has to go to a specialized landfill. You're gonna be charged a lot more money, thousands of dollars potentially. You also, your contractors who work with it have to be ha Whopper certified. Um, that's a training that me and, and anyone who just handles hazardous waste has to have. So that's a 40 hour program followed by an eight hour, uh, course that they have to take every year. So it seems like you're making it complicated.

Is it, uh, is, is solar panels hazardous or not?

Unfortunately, because of the way they're manufactured, we not do not know. Some, some, some are and some are not. So, but you don't know that until you've tested it. What we don't, what we're trying to avoid is landfills having a bunch of hazardous waste placed in them, and now every taxpayer has to contribute to clean up a landfill.

Yeah, I, I, I get it. But it just seems like you could just say, here's five bucks. Throw your panels over in this pile. I don't, I don't. Okay. Thank you.

Hi, um, I'm Joan Entwistle. I live in Summit County. Can you hear me okay? Yes, go ahead. Okay. And, um, representing myself, I'll try to be very quick. Um, I'm just concerned that in one place it says the, you know, you may require the owner of a solar panel to perform a test, and then later on there's a $10,000 a day fine if, if something gets disposed of incorrectly. So somebody throws away one solar panel that for some reason they didn't, wasn't tested, maybe it was their contractor who didn't test it. Um, I'm very confused. I feel like, um, I could end up being liable for a $10,000 a day fine for throwing away a single solar panel. Um, so that, those are just my concerns about this bill. Um, and I'm totally in favor of keeping toxic waste out of our landfills. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Jane Meyers. I'm from West Jordan, Utah. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead, please. Okay. My husband and I have 28 solar panels. My husband has COD from carving styrofoam parade floats. For many years, we purchased solar panels instead of getting new cars, we are not wealthy. I'm a retired teacher. My husband was a display artist. We purchased them to make more power for more affordable to all, as well as increasing power to the grid around us at a lower rate of $38 per megawatt hour. Um, we, according to one of the largest solar panel recycling centers in the country, the main component of our, our solar panels s silicon, which is completely non-toxic. The average amount of lead in the solder used to link the individual cells is 12 to 15 grams, or about half of the lead in a 12 gauge shotgun shell, or one 750th in a car. Battery, television's, batteries, phones, laptops, and tablets all have more toxic waste. We dropped our last television at the landfill without cost. Um, all the recycling companies that I looked at online said that the panels are highly recyclable. May many pay the consumers for their old panels, including transportation according to Forbes Magazine, April 29th, 2024. At the risk of oversimplification, I apologize because of the lateness of the hour, we've gotta move on, but thank you for coming on and testifying.

Thank you. I would just, uh, I would just wrap up. There was a question about the fines. The, uh, the fine that's in code throughout code and, and is echoed here is for illegal dumping is $10,000. It's a set per, per day per violation. That's a maximum. And it's not assessed by the DEQ, it's assessed by court. And so, uh, they would be working with that person to decide what would it take to clean up that site. And the court would assess that fine, but the maximum of $10,000, that's just a standard maximum that's placed throughout the code. And this was just being consistent with that.

Okay. So in my summation, I'll just clarify then that the individual with like an individual with one solar panel, is that person going to be subject to a potential $10,000? Fine?

Well, uh, only if the court found that they were in egregious violation of illegal dumping. Okay. So my guess is that one panel in a tra in a dumpster would not be found as such. But, uh, that would be up to a court to decide.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro tem. I, I heard, and I believe I understand we've already adopted sub two, is that, is that correct? Okay. So that is the version I'm speaking to. Thank you. So version two of this bill and the bill in general, what it does is we're dealing with an up and coming problem. And I feel like we are at the front end of an upcoming tsunami in that solar panels have a lifespan before they are spent of, depending on, if you hear the engineers, an engineer would tell you they have a lifespan of 20 years, or the salesman will tell you it's 30 years, but whichever one you believe, it's between 20 and 30 years before solar panels are spent and then become waste. So solar panels became, uh, very popular starting in 2007 when the federal government implemented all of the tax credits that, uh, they are currently enjoying. So you can do the math between 20, with between 2007 and now we're at 2026, we are at the leading edge of all of the solar panels you see in the field coming back to some place to be dealt with. So in this bill, we're dealing with the fact that some of those solar panels, uh, are create a toxic waste. And so how do we deal with them so that they don't go into landfills and create Superfund toxic waste cleanup sites. So what we've done, and we worked, we, I say we, the royal, we, uh, me, myself and I worked with a large group, large group of stakeholders, division of environmental quality and their, uh, waste management division, and also a host of, uh, large solar providers as what should we do knowing that this is coming down the road. And so we've built a system here. And if you go through, if you go through the bill, you'll see that the dates are kind of far out. And the the concrete steps that are in the near future are to create studies so that we know exactly how much we're talking about where to put them, and how much will it cost for the DEQ to manage this, this growing, this growing, um, product. So in this bill we've prioritized recycling, which is not yet a mature industry. There are, uh, early, early attempts at recycling and we encourage those. But then if you come in to the landfill prior to the recycling business, which landfill do you go to? Do you go to the generic landfill or do you go to the special toxic landfill? That depends on EPA specified test. Uh, the acronym is TCLP. And I already don't remember what the acronym means, but you can google that easily. Uh, and I remember the L stands for leaching, but there's a t toxic leaching something, something. Anyway, look that up. Uh, what we don't want is for the, these panels to go into the wrong landfill if they're destined for the landfill. Now, I know that I've got a lot of concerned emails or conversations from colleagues who are worried about the civil penalties if you are dumping these spent panels into, say, the wash out behind the subdivision or the wrong landfill. And, and what I would explain to you is that the civil penalties, these are the standard civil penalties for illegal dumping that are found consistently throughout all of the code. And the DEQ is not the one who assigns those penalties, uh, or even sets them. They're all set in code as a maximum. But a court is the one that sets what is the appropriate number given this particular dumping violation. So the court sets those in an attempt to, number one, remediate the illegal dumping. And number two, to incentivize the illegal dumper, to instead follow the law and put the proper, put the items in the proper landfill. So, uh, that's what the bill does. We're dealing with a problem maybe with one year to spare. So if we get it all set up and going, we may be at the leading edge of this, uh, or we may be a year or two too late, but we are at the front end of this, which is going to be a growing problem. And, and everyone agrees, all the stakeholders that we need to do this responsibly. So with that, Mr. Speaker, I would conclude, oh, we took only six minutes this time. So with that Mr. Speaker, I would conclude my presentation. Thank

Oh, it is amendment, yes, Mr. Speaker, I would like to move amendment if Representative Burton, Um, Mr.

Speaker, we're in the discussion to advance the, uh, Uh, discussion to the bill. The Bill. Yeah, I wanna rise in support and, and really thank the, uh, the representative from, uh, St. George for running this bill. Um, this is the ugly side of green energy that we don't often talk about, but it must be addressed and I appreciate, uh, his willingness and desire to get it ahead of this problem. Uh, before we have to dispose of thousands of car batteries, uh, that are coming after these solar panels. So, so, uh, I support the bill. Thank you.

Uh, yeah, thank you Mr. Speaker time I move to adopt amendment one. Motion is to adopt amendment number one, second substitute house bill 3 23. We'd like to speak to it.

I'll waive Representative Jack to the motion to amend That that is a very friendly amendment and I'm grateful to my colleague from the town just north of my town. And in this particular amendment, the only thing we have done is clarified that these fees that are being collected go toward this program that's in the bill. The amendment is that the program's budget is still like every other state agency. And these are the letters in red subject to appropriation. So this body still appropriates the funds even though the fund is self-funding. And that speaks to the, the bright golden box around the bill number, which is tells us we have a positive fiscal note.

Oh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Pro 10, uh, motion to, uh, yield to question Representative. Jack, will you yield to a question?

Yes, I will. Mr. Speaker, Go ahead.

Uh, most places when they have projects of this nature, especially large ones will, will bond to protect the, the principles for loss. When that, uh, final date of use of that the solar panels, for example, takes place. Why, why was not this, uh, followed? That's a common practice, but for some reason the solar industry seemed to, uh, kind of divert that to normal tract.

Uh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Yes. So if you will recollect in HP 16, which this body passed out, uh, recently, we did require a decommissioning program and bonding because some counties have been requiring that and other counties have not. But now that's a statewide requirement, or it will be when the governor signs it. However, then what to do once you've decommissioned that solar installation, where do those panels go? And that's what this deals with, is to make sure those panels go into the appropriate, uh, landfill or to the appropriate recycling center.

Yes. So if I ask one more question, go Ahead. Yeah. So that, that, uh, I applaud the good representative from, uh, St. George and, and his efforts in trying to clean this up. But I think going forward, we need to make sure that we have these projects bonded. 'cause they're multi-billion dollars, uh, you know, garbage collections. So anyway, thank you Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm, I just, uh, wanna rise in support of this bill. The good, uh, representative from Dixie has looked at a problem that's gonna be a big problem as these solar panels, uh, cycle off from the system because the solar panel only lasts for 20, maybe 25 years, and these solar panels have a lot of bad things in them. Uh, and his foresight in, in, in this bill, uh, is, is commendable because the, the damage that could occur in landfills, uh, across our state, uh, we, we gotta start looking at where we're gonna put these things and how we're gonna treat 'em. And as my good representative from up North said, uh, some of these towns and cities and counties who put in solar fields at the beginning of this, some did not get bonds and some will be stuck with the price of this and it's gonna be expensive. So I commend the, the good, uh, rep from down in Dixie for looking forward. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. President. Uh, pro tem, uh, Mr. President pro tem. We, uh, have a situation where we have a number of solar panels. We know what they are, we know where, where they're located, and we, uh, intend to continue to locate solar panels in different places. What we have not yet contemplated is what we're gonna begin to do with those when they come to the end of life. Uh, as we did with, uh, used tires and oil. Uh, we went a long time before we figured out that, uh, we were gonna need to have programs for those. This, basically, this bill file begins to develop a program around end of life for solar panels. Uh, we don't want them to end up in ditches, landfills, uh, ponds. We don't as, as they, as they end their life. So this creates a, a program to allow or to begin to, uh, find ways, uh, for the solar panels to, uh, be held disposed of in, in an appropriate way. And with that, I'm open for questions.

Okay. So you've got the impact in here on the fiscal loan and the bill of what it does to DEQ and under entities. What is contemplated to be the charge per panel? Or what is it gonna be to the consumer who's made that choice for, uh, quality, lifestyle and, and environmental benefits? Senator Sandall?

Yes. Um, I don't believe it's contemplated in this bill, but I think the, we've left it to the division for Rule Senator Harper.

Yeah. So we're not gonna set the fee we're gonna have, 'cause basically what's what's contemplated in here is there's gotta be something as back of how you get 25,001 time, 311,000 another and, and what might be going on, you know, 101,000 ongoing. So you don't, you're not aware of what those calculation back ca back cal back calculations are? Correct? I, I, I'm not aware of what those calculations are. Okay. I just, I have concerns with this. Not, not having all the data before us and also, uh, not recognizing some of the, uh, costs that, uh, the implementers and users of this have already experienced.

Senator Vickers. Thanks Mr. President Pro tem uh, sponsor yield.

Question. So, and maybe related to the previous question, uh, a question that came up during the committee is the individual, the individual house home homeowner that hasn't, a solar panel that is damaged or something like that and they need to get rid of it. Uh, you know, what happens to them? 'cause the fines are, seem to be pretty steep. Would you know, would that individual be faced with a, a fine like that? Or what do you, what's your expectations?

Senator Sandall? Yeah, let me, uh, let me circle, let me circle this bill. If I can make a motion to circle, um, I'll get those answers to those questions.

which ones don't, and how many of them may or may not exist. The funding mechanism that you see in here, uh, was agreed to by this installers for small solar panels to begin at $10 a, an installation per job. Um, and 20 to 2120 to 20 megawatts will pay $500 to fund the study. After the study is received, uh, a future legislature will then begin to determine and devise if there is actual, uh, need for a fund to, uh, or what the price should be for disposal. All of those costs the legislature retains and will be able to set. Um, the penalties and the fines you see in here are just matched to the fines for illegal dumping or disposal, uh, in any other, uh, waste management that you would find. Uh, I think that helps define better what the bill does and does not do. Again, it does not create, um, it creates a fund, but, but only the fund is, is for that agreed upon amount to fund the study. With that, I will be open to any questions. Mr. President, Thank you. Questions

Thank you Mr. President. Yeah, I would also like to ask a question. Uh, I did a little homework in the meantime too, talk to the house sponsor and got similar answer. I just wanna make sure I understand it. So if, as I understand it now with, uh, the way we understand the bill, uh, if currently if an individual had a solar panel or two that they had to replace and they took it to the landfill, there really would be nothing different than what's going on now. They could take it, but it in the future, you know, when they get the money that'll be going into the study would be setting up a process, a study to come back and determine. And it sounds like it'll take a couple of years to set that up so that before we come back and put start implementing things. But, uh, I know a number of the questions I've had from individuals are worried about right now. You know, what happens if they take a solar panel to a dump? And the way I understood it and the, like I say, the way I was, uh, instructed from the Good House sponsor, that would not be, they would not be under any kind of penalty unless they did some kind of illegal dumping. Is that correct?

Is correct. There is no penalty for a traditional disposal method in a landfill, but if they were found to be illegal dumping their, uh, the normal dumping fee would apply or not, fee penalty would apply.

Thank you. And I, I really appreciate the clarification 'cause I think there was a little bit of confusion, so thank you very much.

Yeah, thank, thank you for allowing me to circle and get some better answers for everyone Before I go to summation.

I'm sorry, Senator Harper. Yeah, I Appreciate the, uh, sponsor and both sponsors and DEQ grabbing me after I started asking a bunch of questions. I understand now what the cost of this would be, the parties impacted and what it would be used for. This could be construed as a, you know, nose in the camel's tent because it's, we're the face first state to do this. But if we ask questions, we'll get additional information. So that, those are my comments.

Motion. Again, Mr. President, thank you for asking those questions. Uh, we've had a, uh, educational opportunity here to learn more about what we could be doing eventually with solar panels and, uh, without I'd move that second substitute house. Bill 3, 2, 3, pass.