H.B. 381 Electric Mobility Device Amendments: transcript

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for hearing me. I apologize. Sometimes the Senate moves a little slower and took 'em a while to, uh, to get to another bill I was presenting, but, uh, if there's an opportunity share, I would like to do that. If we can get, I'm sorry, the presentation up. There we go. Oh, great. So, um, I'm gonna be speaking to the first substitute and, and Mr. Chair if, if appropriate it, uh, I, I would love at some point, not for you, not to, not to take full action on it, but if you pass the, if you move the first substitute, then people who are looking at the bill online would see the current version and not have to look up and, and suddenly look at an old version. Uh, okay.

Our goals in this, this is, is fairly lengthy and a lot of touches, a lot of subject. Our goal is to get more kids. My goal is to get more kids riding bikes and more kids riding bikes safely and independently. I think it's great for kids to be outside, to be riding bikes, to be able to experience, uh, Independence. We have, uh, a challenge with safety and injuries that we've seen from a lot of these e devices. Uh, we want to improve that. I want to provide some material that helps parents make better decisions and ensure consistent, fair application of the law from municipality to municipality across the spectrum currently. And, and I, I should say, I need to, I need to thank, uh, Representative Defay for working with me on this for the last six months. She's been really helpful, uh, and really appreciate her help, help and our drafting attorney and policy analysts. Currently, there is some confusion. Could you look at this picture and tell me which of those bikes are class one, class two, and class three? It's pretty hard to tell from a distance, and it's hard for our, uh, officers to look at a bike from a distance and tell what class it is and what the regulations are. Currently, we have different age levels for different classifications, and we have different helmet rules for different classifications. And so it's very hard to look at a bike from a distance and say, oh, that's, you know, somebody's in compliance or not in compliance. So we wanna try to simplify and, uh, help make people make good decisions on what devices they buy and help kids stay safe. Our current law says, uh, for certain classes, if you're under 16, you can't even operate the device. It also says for other classes, class two and class three, if you're 14, uh, or if you're under 14, that you can't ride that bike unless you're under the direct supervision of a parent.

So, so I've read the bill, but can you just remind everybody what the classes are again?

Uh, I, I'm happy to do that. Um, oh, okay. Alright. Yeah, you bet. Um,

Uh, well, let's see if I've, now I might have, I, great. So classes are, you have a, uh, class one is a pedal assist, and it can go no more than thir 20 miles an hour. That means it doesn't have a throttle, you have to pedal to get it to work. And if it gets to 20 miles an hour, no, the motor stops, uh, providing assistance. And currently today, eight years old and, and under 14, you can only ride it if you're with your parent. Is anybody following the law on this? Very, very, very few I think are following today. Class two is a bike with a throttle. So it will run whether you're pedaling or not, you can pedal it. And there's lots of different kinds. You see sometimes see the little Jetson bikes, uh, smaller ones. But if it has a throttle and it runs without a pedal, then it's probably a class two, as long as it stays under, uh, 20 miles an hour. And you can see it has the same restrictions about riding independently. Uh, class three is pedal assist, but it can go faster 28 miles an hour. And so these go a little bit faster. And, uh, also higher performance. And currently if you're under 16, you're not allowed to ride it. Uh, an e motorcycle is not a bike. It is characterized by power over 750 watts. Uh, and at that power, it can, they often go much faster than 20 miles an hour, some of them significantly faster. They're very quick, very fast. Soran is a common name, a common, uh, brand name. There are many different kinds of, of these devices, and they look very different. So those are the, and then we also have a motor assisted er, um, scooter, which is an e scooter. And there are different kinds of those. There's those that go under 20 miles an hour. And then you have some very high performance scooters and other devices that go much faster than that. Uh, uh, up to, um, I would up to, I wanna, I don't wanna say a max limit. There's, there's some scooters that'll go 45, 55, 60 miles an hour, if you can believe that. Why you would wanna do that, I don't know. But there are some devices that go very fast. So we wanna strike the limit on, uh, we're, we're striking that old language out that you can only operate with a parent, and we're putting in a, we're suggesting a new approach. We're also adding a new classification called a high powered electric device. And what a high powered electric device is, is intended to catch all those devices that can go faster than 20 miles an hour. So think a really fast scooter, or there's various other devices with two or more wheels that go really fast. And we're capturing those and essentially treating those for the most part. If they don't fall into an e-bike class, then we're saying, and they go faster than 20 miles an hour, we're gonna treat you like a motorcycle and we're going to have the motorcycle, uh, responsibilities apply to you on that. And we're also making it clear the state agency can make other rules about high powered devices, whether they are on a sidewalk or in a park. There've been some concerns, uh, with public parks and golf courses that are getting torn up by, by some of these devices. We're leaving that up to the locals. This bill is intended to focus on highways if it's riding on the street where there is traffic. We wanted to, again, make it clear that outside of the street, the locals can make, uh, the rules about trails and parks and, and sidewalks, leaving it up to, to local control. There, you'll hear some people who probably would like us to be more restrictive. The Murdoch Trail in Utah County gets a lot of complaints. Legacy trail in Davis County, they, there's often some complaints there, but that, that is not included in this bill at this time. However, we think some of the additions that we're putting in, in, in here will help with, with those, especially the helmets. And some of the, uh, uh, safety training you may hear today from, from law enforcement on some of the challenges that they see. Parents, those of us here today, we're professionals. We're supposed to know the law. How many of us could have told you what classification those bikes are without? Uh, a little ring. It's pretty hard to tell. Uh, there, the faster devices, especially these that go more than 20 miles an hour, are very, it's very easy for someone riding that to evade a police car. They can go in small areas, they can go very, very fast. It's easy to get away. I'm gonna show you a video of one, uh, of those cases. Uh, we also have the challenge of modifications, uh, in addition to, of course, all these accidents we're seeing. So I'm gonna show you a quick video and then, um, talk about a modification to, I don't know if we'll get any audio on this, but, uh, let's see if we can get the video to, uh, hopefully show Doesn't look like it's showing up there. Let's, one of the challenges that, uh, we'll show here is, uh, that some people have been taking an e motorcycle and putting a set of cranks on it so that it has cranks like a bike, and therefore calling it a bike, uh, or presenting. No, I'm just have a bike. It's not really a, a motorcycle. Um, well, it's disappointing that we can't get this, uh, demo to work. Um, uh, here's a picture of this. This is an e it's an e motorcycle, but you can see down here, bike pedals have been added to it. We also have it, so we're making it clear if you modify from the manufacturer, that doesn't mean that it changes the classification. It's, it's what the manufacturer made it as. And there's also lots of stuff online on how to change the limiters and make your bike go faster if it's capable, making clear, if you change the manufacturers, if you modify it from the manufacturer, it, it's not, it's no longer that class. Let's, let's try one more time to see if we can get this fun demo to work. If not, we'll just have to skip it for next time. It was working early and it was great, but, um, Uh, I, I don't think it's the, so here is a, here is a summary that helps you understand what we're proposing. So we're, if you look on the device side, you can see pedal assist bikes, and we had the class one pedal assist bikes, which go up to 20 miles an hour, and class three bikes, which go up to 28 miles an hour. What we're suggesting in introducing is based on what DNR does with off highway vehicles, if any of you have an off highway vehicle, a side-by-side four wheeler, you know that to ride it outside, you have to take a training class. And I think we do this for boating as well as, uh, I think I was told that there's a, like a boating safety course that, that you have to take to operate outside. Uh, so we're gonna, we wanna use the same model for e e-bikes to help educate folks on those. So we'll use the pedal assist, uh, as an example, if, if you're under the supervised use or of your parent or a responsible adult, we're not change that. You can still use that. But if you want to ride independently on your own without any supervision, we're gonna allow that and, and encourage that. As long as you take a safety class and get a safety certificate that can be downloaded to your phone or can be awarded to you in theory by the DARE officer at your school. If you're doing, if you do this as part of your sixth grade curriculum, which we've talked about, or, or bike, Utah may offer a class that you could come and get your safety certificate to teach kids how to ride safely on the street in the highway. So with Independence, use between eight and 15, you could ride those bikes. And then at 16 you are, you could use independent, uh, independent use. And we're modifying some of these bikes. Classes, you remember required helmets, some of them didn't. Our suggestion is everybody under 21 wears a helmet if they're on the street in traffic. We don't see any reason not to wear a helmet if you're on the street in the traffic. So that's pedal assist bike. You can see there throttle devices that are, these are things that go less than 20 miles an hour. Same, same policy there. You can get a safety certificate if you're a kid and you wanna ride that device on a street. Again, if you're like taking your scooter to school and you're staying on the sidewalk and on the crosswalk, no, no change. You can still do that. But if you wanna ride on the street, then take the safety training and wear a helmet. High powered devices, this is a new, this is the new classification. So if you're a high powered device and you're an electric motorcycle, you meet that definition for a motorcycle, then you are not allowed to drive that on the street unless you are 16 years old. You have a, a, well, it doesn't matter the age, you have to have a driver's license and a motorcycle endorsement just like you do with any other kind of motorcycle. So we're saying, doesn't matter if it's electric or not, we treat a motorcycle, like a motorcycle for other high powered devices, e scooters, and some of these other new devices that can also go very fast, as fast as a motorcycle. We are saying you can can, you can use those on the street at 16 if you have a safety certificate or you have a driver's license and with a motorcycle endorsement. We have some kids who don't wanna get their driver's license. Uh, but we feel like if you take the safety class and you wanna ride your, your device and you've taken the training, then uh, we'll enable that in independent use some additional freedom that we have today. So that's the high level overview. I'd love to take questions. I'd love to have your feedback. Um, for the public that's here after what we're gonna hear their testimony, I would love additional feedback and we'll incorporate that and come back and ask you to, um, take action on it.

that since we're taking action. Perfect. That Then that will be wonderful.

I'm not sure if they're gonna let you ride them, given are, are you safe? Uh, haven't taken the class, you haven't taken the class. Uh, and, but we'd encourage you to get familiar and talk to, we'd love you to talk to your local police, uh, chiefs about this and also your local emergency room staffs who have seen a real challenge with the type of injuries they're seeing.

And this, and this doesn't even deal with, uh, hover boards or not any of those kind of things. Right?

Well, tho i, the, we believe that some of these hoverboards and other devices would be captured under those micro mobility devices. So it depends if they can go faster than 20 miles an hour or less than 20 miles an hour. So if they go faster than 20 miles an hour, like let's say these electric unicycles are generally faster, they're used by commuters, they're faster than 20 miles an hour, those should be treated like a, like a motorcycle, which I think that that user community agrees. That's a good idea. Uh, the hoverboards, it would depend if they're faster or slower than 20 miles an hour.

Thank you. Um, I motion to adopt first.

Let's just, let's Just have, I'm so sorry.

I don't have to ask a question. I I would just like to thank, um, Representative Cutler for his hard work on this. Um, he and I, he was kind to say that I helped out, he did most of the heavy lifting on this. Um, we do have a lot of young children in our community that are riding these different types of electric vehicles, scooters, motorcycles. And I am assure that some of you have seen a proliferation of them in your communities within the past year. Um, it's become a real problem. I, I don't know if I can drive down my street one time in the months between May and November without worrying that I'm going to kill a child. It, it's truly terrifying. Um, and now that I'm, my kids are driving and I'm, my daughter is, um, she's learning to drive. She's like, these electric vehicles are so scary, mom, I'm, I'm so nervous I'm gonna hurt someone. And then I I was like, that, that is true. So it's so nice to see the generation said, we need to do something about this. Um, so I applaud Representative Cutler. This is a very, very complex issue. He's really taking the deep dive in, trying to figure out how can we best address it, finding a balance and making sure that we have the freedom to have fun and that kids can use these devices, but we can do it safely. I think he's come up, um, the OHV program is pretty easy. It's been very successful and I think it's a really good model. So I think just, uh, emulating that pro program for our children is a really smart way to go. Um, so I am appreciative of the efforts. I fully support the bill. Um, and, um, and just, sorry. We, we, we have just had incidents in our community, Representative Cutler and I in our community that have led to unfortunate circumstances on these vehicles, and I'm sure many of you have as well. So it is, um, it's personal for us. We want to make sure that we are protecting our children and giving 'em the opportunity for fun, but in a, in a safe way. Thank you.

Chair. I've got two questions, if that's all right. Sure. Uh, thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. The first question that I've got is the safety course. What, what does that look like for kids going through that? And does that give, you know, the same kind of roadway instruction that, that a driver's license course would give

Our, our intent? So, uh, thank, thanks for the question that the course or responsibility would, uh, lie with the Department of Public Safety. They could choose to outsource the development of that course. There are, uh, zero fatalities has expressed interest by Utah, has expressed interest. There's lots of people who, who have some curriculum that they could put together. The intent is that this would be offered online is one option it would cost. We have in the bill today, it would be low cost, $10 or less to do it online. It could also be offered by a nonprofit like Bike Utah. It could be offered by a police department or another community, uh, organization who would take the curriculum offered by Department of Public Safety and ensure that people see that curriculum and, and take the curriculum intended to be fairly short. I would say my thought is, you know, 15 minutes or less, maybe it's 30 minutes. Depends. We, we gotta work. We're letting them work out that curriculum. Okay. But that's the intent. You would take it one time, one time training, not an annual training. Uh, like, just like the off highway vehicle, uh, training.

Okay, perfect. And you, you actually answered my second question. I was worried with, with visitors coming to Salt Lake, like when I go to a different city, my favorite thing is to hop on a lime scooter and, and go around. And so you've answered that, that the timing would be 20, 30 minutes for a class and then they could download that to their phone and have it, and,

And Mr. Chair, if I may, we have exempted the rental companies Green bike and in theory, the rental commercial scooter companies from some of the re requirements on, on this. So

This is just privately owned or individually owned scooters. And,

And, and I'd love feedback on that. We, we felt it was very challenging to include them in some of these regulations. Uh, they, they, the information's provided to us is their devices are limited. They cannot go more than 20 miles an hour. They're lower, they're lower speed devices, uh, that are rented. So they never fall into that high, high performance category.

Okay. Thank you so much. Appreciate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Representative Cutler. My city will seriously erect a statue of you if you get this passed because they, it's a been an issue for years. So thanks for working hard on it. You might have put this in your presentation already. Help me understand the definition of roadways. Is it class, is it all class A, B, C?

Yeah, A any, any city or state road roadway. Okay. The, the intent is paved roads. So it, uh, I, it may be looking at Rachel. It may be 25 miles an hour or more, but I think it's any, any paved road that's a city or, or state highway.

But the key is locals get to make decisions around trails, parks. And then this though is a backstop for all local paved roads.

Correct. And, and I would, yes, the intent is not, is to give locals tools and, and let them make, have more control not to try to tell them what to do.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay.

Thank you. I, I just wanted to clarify on the, the Lime rentals, those little nasty, I mean those little nice things that people ride around, it's my understanding that you're supposed to be 18 to rent one of those. Correct. So if there are tourists coming in from outta town and letting their kids who are under 18 ride those, I don't have any sympathy for also not cracking down on that. So I'm just thinking if you're gonna come back with another version of the bill, we should probably talk about

About that. I think the, where we exempted them was the helmet requirement, because that was the challenge. They all said, we never rent to anyone under 18 uhhuh. We never do that. It's a dad joke, isn't it? But we did get Probably the, uh, the training requirement. The training requirement and the helmet requirement, other problems for them. But I'm happy to, if, if

Well we can. I mean, it just, I basically should, I think what it should say, I don't know. We'll have to talk about it because those kids shouldn't be on those things anyway. They shouldn't. So why would we be talking about helmets or training if they're not supposed to be on 'em anyway? And, and if Someone comes to Utah to ride off highway vehicles, they have to take this training class before they can ride.

That is my understanding. Okay. Alright.

There's, there's something to talk about there. Okay.

Okay. Thank you. So, so I had, I mean, looking at the, at this, it looks like it's really, doesn't matter if it's electric or gas or whatever power or pedal power, it's the speed that you're really concerned about. Right? So what if you, I mean, and I'm also thinking about the enforcement. Uh, how difficult is it for enforcement officers to look at that and know, I mean, you know, we're having the discussion here, but is it gonna be easy for an enforcement officer to say, oh man, that kid's just going crazy on it. Uh, and what bike's he on and all this? Great.

Well, I, I'd love for our law enforcement that's here to speak to that. We've, we've met with, uh, chief of police a couple of times. Uh, we've also, I should clarify currently the safety certificate portion of it. A police officer can't pull over someone just for the safety certificate. They have to have made some other mistake. Maybe they're writing incorrectly or, or made a traffic error and then they could check for the safety ate. So it's a secondary, it's, it's like seat belts. It's a secondary, uh, uh, something that they could, uh, be on. But I'd love to, if you're willing to hear from Chief Ackerson. Yeah, I'd love to hear from him. I, I'd love to let him speak to that. Yeah,

Alright. Thank you so much. Yeah. I'm Chief Allen Ackerson from the Centerville Police Department, and, uh, formerly worked under Representative Cutler when he was a mayor for our city. Um, anyway, some, some thoughts. Could you, could you just slide that Mike Callwell, sir. Just, there you go. Yeah, Absolutely. Thanks. Is that Better? That's better. Okay. So I, I, we've seen the technology change a lot with e-bikes and I, I think the law has not done a, has not had a chance to catch up and that that's the intent of this law. This law, right. And, and what I've also seen as well, from a, and you asked about enforcement, right? And so you got the three classes. Um, it is very confusing. You need like a flow chart or a graph. We'll actually give these to our officers so they can reference it because they themselves have a hard time following the different classifications and, and the regulations on 'em. So they may come out with something that they have to pull out the little graph and start looking at it and see where the child lines up. And so I, I think this, uh, this draft of legislation here does a great job of kind of simplifying it and, um, making it a little more universal across the board for ages and, um, and speeds. So, um, let's see here. Um, I, and I also think as well parents. Right. We, we, we'll stop out with kids and we'll find a violation and we'll contact the parents and they'll come out and the parents have no idea what the regulations are. And then we, we try to explain the regulations to the parents, and then everyone's just confused because it is very difficult. And so anything we can do to kinda streamline, and it will help with the education aspect of it. Um, I, I think kids are more likely and parents are more likely to enforce the law if they have an understanding of it. Right.

Yeah. So I was just wondering, should this be speed related rather than device related, you know, regulated or what?

Well, our, our thought in discussing is we want to have the capability of the device. So if it's capable of going, uh, those higher speeds, then that puts it in the higher category. What we suspect is that an officer, if it sees a device clearly going more than 20 miles an hour, then that will then that they can easily tell, okay, this is not, uh, a, a, a typical device. This is a high powered device. And it, and we can look at this like a motorcycle,

Right? 20 miles an hour is, is a good standard. Uh, it's a speed that we see all the time as police officers. 'cause it is the school zone speed. Right. And, and you, you can tell when someone's speeding in the school zone. Right. Um, and so, yeah, for us, uh, 20 miles an hour is, is a good speed to, to gauge an estimate.

Great. And that, does that apply to like just a regular bike, you know, pedal bike if they're going over 20, I mean, is that

If they're, if they're pedaling over 20, then, then they're exempt from that. The feedback that we've got, and I'd love the chief to speak to this, is that very few communities have had problems with pedal bikes. It's the throttle devices that are really the challenge right now.

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I think these, these throttle devices, whether they'd be the, uh, you know, the class three bike or class two bikes, right? They have the throttle or the, the electric motorcycles, which another, this bill also addresses the electric motorcycle, which is something that's entirely left out of any, any, any bills right now, or any, any statutes. And it's, it's just goes unsaid that considered a motorcycle. Anyway, uh, what we've seen is a change in the way, uh, especially teens and children use bicycles, right. Traditionally bicycles are, are used to get from point A to point B for the, for the kids. Now they've become these recreational vehicles, right? They're cruising neighborhoods and they're, they're having a great time. And I don't blame them. I would've loved to have had one when I was, when I was younger. Right. But now just the, the, the amount of time that they spend the exposure out on the streets is so much more than they were before. And the speeds are so much higher.

Do you see a lot more accidents and, and problems with, you know, kids going to the hospital when It goes really bad?

We do. So this was a conversation we had with one of our local, uh, emergency rooms departments. Okay. So they actually came to us and said, we'd like to partner with you guys, anything we can do as an emergency room to help educate, to help slow down the injuries that are coming in. Okay. And this is a for-profit hospital, right. If they're asking for, to not bring them business. Right. You know, it's a problem. And so, um, so yeah, so we, as law enforcement, we don't typ we aren't typically contacted on, on bike crashes. Right. Unless it involves a vehicle or a, a real severe injury. Right. But the, the ER docs are definitely crying for something to change.

Represent. Yeah, Brian Child. Um, I am a neurophysiologist. I practice electrodiagnostic medicine in Ogden. And, uh, so I fully support safety and everything that is being sponsored in this bill. I'm also, um, founder and owner of Baku e-Bikes, um, headquartered in Weber County, just outside of Ogden. Uh, we incorporated it in 2016. And, uh, we are a fat tire Electric started as a fat tire electric hunting bike company, but it's a utility bike. Um, we have several, uh, first responders that use our bikes. Uh, several police forces here across Wasatch Front use our bikes. We have, um, other first responders like hot shots that use our bikes as well. Um, we worked with lawmakers and with attorneys two years ago, uh, to draft the current language of the bill or of the, uh, the law for e-bikes. And what we were addressing at that point was similar to what we're talking about today, which is differentiating between an electric bike and a motorized vehicle. And so current law does state just as has been talked, class one, class two, class three. And it, it is fairly simple when you think about the differentiation between the three, three classifications. One and three are, are pedal assist only, no throttle. They all are 750 watt motors. This is what's generally recognized throughout the United States as the classification scheme for E-bikes 750 watts, which is the equivalent of one horsepower. And it was set at one horsepower because if we're using trails in the back country, then it should, if you're can take a horse there, then you should be able to take something that's one horsepower or less. So 750 watts Class two allows for the throttle. So the only difference between Class one, class three, class one and three and two is that two has a throttle. One and three do not. Then the only other change is the 28 miles per hour on a Class three bike. Um, working with lawmakers and attorneys in drafting the current language that is there, we came up with the pedals have to be affixed to the bike by the manufacturer. They cannot be fabricated or altered once received by the consumer. Um, that would void it from being a motorcycle into being an electric bike. Um, so I, I met with a Representative, Cutler we're, um, working with him on some of this language. Um, that actually deviates just a little bit in particular. Um, there, there's one line that actually mentions that a Class one E-bike cannot have the ability to, um, to be programmed. And when we were working on this a couple of years ago, um, we came up with, uh, a program called On-Demand Programming, essentially any lawmaker at that point, not only were we trying to satisfy the consumer that maybe is writing in an area where they can only ride a Class one E-bike, but they maybe go to a national park. All national parks across the US allow class one and class two, but they might also be riding in an area where they allow Class three. So we're allowing the various jurisdictions to regulate what can be ridden in their areas. So it allows them control over that our bikes, you can pull up and you can look at the display and it very clearly states class one throttle enabled or throttle disabled. So any law officer or DNR guy can pull up and look at a bike and say, this is class one, this is class two, this is class three. And it meets the regulations of the area that we're riding in. We a hundred percent support the safety and I think we all can agree that maybe things have gotten a little far to the left with regards to kids in riding these bikes and, and how fast they can be going on the streets. And, and I'm no different than that, but, but what we want to do is, is at least voice that we don't want to deviate the classifications of bikes too much. That would change them for people that travel. Anybody coming into the state that wants to go to one of our national parks and has a bike that is a class one that can be a class two to ride through the park, all of a sudden their bike is useless and they no longer can ride it here.

Hi. Um, my name's Dave Tus. I'm with Cycling Utah. Um, we're a local bicycle magazine and advocacy group. Um, this is mostly a really good bill. Um, the opportunity to classify the e emoto's, uh, as something different than e bicycles is, uh, really an important thing. Um, the, the law has not kept up with what's going on out in the world. Um, and you'll probably have to modify it again in another year or two 'cause there's no doubt something else coming along the way. Um, I think the biggest thing that I would love to see out of this program is using this bill to incorporate e-bike and bicycle safety into the driver's license programming for, uh, especially for, for people under 18. So that whatever is in the bicycle safety or the e-bike safety certificate is something that every single driver who is, um, who's getting their license under 18 has to, has to take. Because it's not only important for, um, people riding bikes to know the laws and know what they're supposed to do or not do. It's also important for drivers to know what bicycles are able to do and not able to do. And it will ultimately in the long run, reduce conflict. Um, secondly, uh, there's a People for Bikes letter. I don't know if they have sent this to the committee yet, but it outlines a number of, um, mostly minor changes, uh, in clarification on, um, you know, what emoto's are and insurance issues. Um, I, I have a copy of the letter, but it's something that I, I think they're either have sent or are sending to the committee and, um,

Yeah, I think they are probably gonna do that as well. Um, uh, I did notice that the high powered electric device, um, the way that that, uh, clause is written, that seems to also include electric cars, so Teslas, et cetera. So, um, it'd be great to see those not be able to go over 20 miles an hour. But, um, um, and yeah, that's pretty much it. So I think, you know, with some, some changes, I, the last thing is that helmet laws, um, I think helmets are generally good to wear. I always, always wear one. I wore, wore one when I rode my bike to the Capitol today. Um, they do have a tendency when they've been put in place in like Seattle or Australia to discourage riding. And so the question is for class one e-bike, so the 20 mile per hour pedal assist, um, for 18 and above, do you, that might be a place to, um, maybe remove the helmet requirement for that particular class, the, the other classes? I think it's reasonable, but,

Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Uh, I am here today in my capacity as, uh, mayor of Bountiful and president of the Utah League of Cities and Towns. Thank you.

Kate Bradshaw. And, uh, uh, and Representative Cutler has one fine, uh, precinct in, in my city, um, that he represents, uh, thanks to Creative Districting, but we're happy to take him. Um, the League of Cities and Towns, uh, has not yet taken a formal position on this bill because it, it numbered after our legislative policy committee meeting this week. But, um, I'm here to express that we are, uh, excited about this bill and have been in close contact with him and working on this, this bill, um, with him throughout the interim. Uh, earlier this year we had a legislative policy committee meeting with, um, the League of Cities and Towns, and we asked for a show of hands of how many cities are dealing with challenges in this space related to, to e-bikes and e motorcycles. And, uh, every single hand went up. Um, we need some help with some of the definitions that he is providing for in this bill. Um, there are a myriad of issues from, uh, riding on streets to riding on sidewalks, to riding on trails, um, to riding and doing different things in parks. And so we very much, uh, need his, uh, the definitions and the assistance that he would provide here. Uh, I am a, uh, uh, a biker, a mountain biker, and I, uh, very much believe in support active transportation. I think it's a critical component, um, of how we move people around in our communities, but we need some of these structures as these, uh, bikes have evolved in order to make sure we're doing that safely in order to make sure that, um, we're giving the right structure to where and how and how fast so that as people are having these interactions on streets and on trails, um, and in parks, they're doing so safely. So, um, hope that as you're, uh, weighing out the components of his bill that you'll know that, uh, your municipalities are, are very interested and supportive of the outcomes that Representative Cutler is seeking. Thank you.

Thank you. So, um, maybe you can help us understand this is absolutely an issue and I, I'm glad I'm, yeah. So my question is why, what, what's been the hold up for cities to just deal with this over the course of the last few years instead of waiting for the state to step in?

So one of the challenges that we have experienced at the municipal level is, um, as you go through the classifications of, of e-bikes and then you start to move into e motorcycles, um, it's very difficult to, if you're not somebody who's in this space a lot to, to be able to see the difference visually on the bikes and when a component of the bill includes, um, labeling. Is that in your other bill? The labeling component?

No, the labeling is in here. This, in this one. So it, I didn't mention that, but it does change some labeling when you, when you sell a bike to, uh, be more clear about what kind of device it is when it's sold by a retailer. There's a lot of online retailers, but at least a point of sale retailers that that will change the sticker that goes on it.

And if you're interested, I will send you a graphic that my city has developed that sh that that kind of helps illustrate how difficult it is when you're seeing something perhaps, um, you know, go by quickly. Whether that is a class one or class three, or whether you're getting into, um, that e motorcycle space in particular, uh, in my part of the state, um, there's a particular brand of e motorcycles called Crons that are very, very, very popular. They're e motorcycles. They're incredibly fast. Um, but if you're, if you're not deep into the space, your ability to tell if that is a class three or an e motorcycle is, is probably gonna be something that the average person would be able to figure out. So that labeling, uh, uh, provision I think is important. Um, there also I think is a general, um, help and awareness that we need from our, our state partners to help us with that awareness to back to parents sometimes as they're making purchasing decisions. Um, you know, we've seen a, a, a holiday season go by and that has greatly increased the number of, of, uh, two wheeled vehicles that came under the Christmas tree. And this is one of those areas where we, we talk about we want that partnership with the state and we need you to help, uh, our ability to communicate these restrictions and clarify them, and then we can collectively elevate them so that, um, both the users of the vehicles and parents in particular know exactly what they're, what they're buying and, and should they be putting a kid in particular on the, on this bicycle, and should they be doing it in this part you of a city, should they be doing it on a street? Should they be doing it on a trail? Um, and so we, we kind of need that partnership and that help for from you all to help us clarify.

I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to still understand, and I get it, that the cities don't typically want the state to, right. I mean, you're, I I hear from folks in cities all the time mm-hmm. Stay out of our business, stay out of our business. Mm-hmm. And so I'm just trying, I I'm still not clear as to why this is different than other things. You,

You also have defined in, um, in, in state code, these different classifications and, and speeds already. And so once you've done that, our ability to, and I don't think you'd want 257 different definitions of, of an e-bike. Sure. Um, and so where you've already, um, you know, put down a marker on that space, I think that would be appropriate. And I, I saw that our good chief from Centerville has jumped up here and maybe he wants to supplement my answer, right?

I I can definitely, if that's allowed, Mr. Chair.

That, that's something we've discussed as a city and we've addressed it, uh, on the park level. Right. So we've had an issue with e-bikes and parks. So we've gone through that process, we've changed ordinances and the discussion did come up about our roads. And the issues we have is where Centerville is, right? We have, we have Bountiful one side, Farmington, we have all these communities, and the cyclists don't stay within one community within the right. So they go right from one to the next. And so this idea that each little community or city's gonna have their own regulations and the bike, you know, the, the cyclists are supposed to know as they, as they move between the cities. And so we're wanting the state to, to, to take control of that and to, to set some, um, income, make, make the changes for us.

Hi. Yeah. Thanks for taking my comments. So, um, I, my name's Keegan Marino. I'm a, uh, an attorney. I represent the Utah Association for Justice. And one of the concerns that, that we had was just the unattended gap of insurance protection that this bill would create. So, um, to give you the scenario, which was addressed many times here already, that we have significant collisions and injuries to people vulnerable, um, children, and, and, and we need to correct that. So we're all on board with that. The problem with, um, the gap in coverage comes from dela, or excuse me, classifying the high powered e-bikes as electric motorcycles, which is then included to be a motorcycle in this bill. So currently every auto insurance policy excludes coverage for the use of motorcycles as defined in Utah law. So currently, every homeowner's policy also excludes coverage for the use of a motorcycle. So a common scenario that we see often is a child riding a an e-bike and gets hit by, um, either somebody that's a, a hit and run or a uninsured driver or, uh, insurance coverage is insufficient because the injuries are so substantial in these scenarios. And currently, scooters and e-bikes fall under the coverage of uninsured motorist or un underinsured motorist coverages for all auto, auto policies. Uh, but for these ultra vulnerable situations, a family is able to protect themselves against uninsured drivers. That, and so we are able to protect ourselves from these, these, these scenarios that would, that would, um, that, that are devastating. But the new bill, uh, excludes this scenario from our own insurance coverage and it doesn't provide an alternative. So, uh, you know, has there been a discussion with insurance companies on, on how we can fill that gap? Because if we classify these e-bikes as motorcycles now, then the common family, you know, Utahans are going to be left unknowingly with no insurance coverage for these scenarios. And, uh,

Thank you. Uh, I was unaware of this. I am meeting with, uh, uh, someone today, I think at five o'clock from, from the insurance industry that, that has some comments. So I, I look forward to understanding the issue and seeing if we can resolve it. I was unaware of, of, of this issue.

Hi, thank you. My name's Catherine Stokes, Murray, Utah. Just speaking on behalf of myself, I've been a nurse for 20 years. Most of that time was spent caring for children in critical care. So I've met a lot of kids and parents on the worst day of their lives. Um, and this bill matters so much to me, and I am just thrilled at the work that, uh, Representative Cutler has put into it. Um, my facility is seen a 66% increase in e e-bike accidents. Um, and we as nurses, our natural educators, we, we really want people to be educated to the risks that they're taking and ways to be safe. I love that this bill includes education for families. I also am so appreciated of the helmet requirement for under 21 for the over 20 miles per hour. I understand the bill a lot better hearing you speak about it, Representative Cutler, I think you did a great job, um, making this very clear. And I also think that as educators, we try to use a lot of standardization in our education as nurses, as physicians because it, it really provides clarity. So I think that there is a service to this be happening on the state level for our law enforcement that are the ones that are going and trying to educate kids and families and, um, for parents as they're purchasing these bikes, having that clarity and having these classes be across the board, across the state as far as the rules, not just being a city rule. I think it really just simplifies things for people trying to make good decisions for their kids. And we want kids out on bikes, like we want them out enjoying everything life has to offer. We really don't want them in our trauma bay. And I think that this is a great preventative effort, uh, on the part of the bill sponsor. So thank you very much.

Yes. I move, we adopt sub one for house bill 2 81.

If you'd adopt it and, and then hold it, uh, after that. That'd be, that'd be fantastic.

Uh, motion to hold house bill 3 81.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate you here. If it's okay, I'd love to have my intern pass out a Yeah, that's okay. A handout. And, uh, it's always fun to start, if we can get this going again. Oh, do I need a mirror? Yeah, Let's see if we can do our cheese. Go. Okay. Okay, go ahead. I just need Into to, I didn't make it, but I did do the house committee. I was gonna say, you, you sat in the house. Yes. Love it. Choose the content. Oh, yeah, I do. Send a display. Let's try that. Yes. Except then I'll have to throw this over here, but I can do that. Okay. Go ahead. See if we can to move to the extended green. So it's always, uh, fun to start, uh, this is not Yeah, but I can't control it is the problem. Yeah. I'm trying to get it to presentation mode, but I have, uh, limited control. Ooh. Okay. So here is a, uh, I don't know that we'll have the, uh, the audio here, but this is tough to see, but there's a, a motorcyclist, uh, ahead on a on electric e-bike. This is, uh, in Bountiful. Someone grabbed the lights. Yeah, someone, it's better, it's better with the, so you'll see here the motor, the, the policeman is following the motorcyclist, and the motorcyclist goes up on the sidewalk. He's on the ebi, thankfully, he is wearing a, a helmet appears, obviously you can't go on a and the, uh, the sirens are on. He's gone. He's far up ahead. He's accelerated very quickly. The, he, this is, uh, 26 South and fifth West and Bountiful. It's a big, big interchange. He's got a red light. He goes out in the middle of the red light and, you know, very dangerous and takes off. At that point, the police officer obviously stops, uh, pursuit because that's a very dangerous thing, uh, to do. So the, our, our law enforcement friends have, have asked for some help in dealing with these type high powered, uh, uh, electric devices like e motorcycles. Our overall goal is to get more kids riding bikes, 'cause it's good for them to be outside off their screens. But to do, to do it safely and to help, uh, our parents and others figure out, okay, is this really a, an approved device? Is this a legal device or is this a knockoff that, uh, shouldn't be on the, on the, on the road? And to help our municipalities in, uh, administer the law, uh, fairly. So the challenge today is it's very hard to distinguish between the different types of e-bikes and e motorcycles. Over the years, we've added different devices and they have different classifications and different requirements for each type of device. Class one, class two, class three. And often parents are thinking, Hey, I'm buying a e-bike and they're for my kid. And what they're buying is an e motorcycle, uh, especially if it's capable of going more than 20 miles per hour. So we, we took out some of the, uh, rules. For example, there were different rules about which age you could ride a bike at, uh, without your parents' supervision. Currently, if you're below 14, you're only supposed to be driving under the direct supervision of their parents. This isn't happening. So we don't, uh, we want a law that can actually be followed rather than one that, uh, is, is very difficult to follow. The other challenge we have is these different devices such as these high powered scooters that can go up to 70 miles an hour. Uh, different types of devices that we don't have a good classification for. They don't fit in the definition of an e-bike. They don't fit in the definition of, uh, an an motor assisted scooter or an scoter. So we created a, a new category called a high power electric device to try to capture these devices. And we said the cutoff line is 20 miles an hour because that's the, uh, uh, limitation for our e scooters and, uh, e-bikes except for self-propelled, um, uh, e-bikes. Uh, in, in Europe, they end up, they, they set the line at 15, but in many places in America, we set it at 20. We also wanted to make sure that local authorities can, this, this, this bill only deals with traffic on a highway. So it's only on a highway in a road. We don't deal with sidewalks, we don't deal with trails, we don't deal with things that are off on the side of the road. It's only on a highway itself. Everything else, uh, locals can make rules. Uh, in, in rural Utah, I think we, it's common to be much more lenient than maybe in some of our suburbs. And we want that. We want the, the locals to make those, uh, roles. So this is only for on the road. Uh, I think you're probably aware of the challenges we have. Uh, e motorcycles, uh, have been tearing up parks. They're very powerful, lots of situations where they're evading, uh, law enforcement and law enforcement would, would like some more, uh, tools to help, uh, with this. So what are we, what are we doing here? Oh, oh, the other challenge is the current definitions. Say if it's got pedals, then it's an e-bike. So here's a, a clever individual who put pedals on the motorcycle, so they could call it an e-bike. Um, that, uh, we've, we've, uh, clarified that in this new, in, in this, uh, legislation. And, um, so here's the, the, what we'd like to do is, uh, clarify when it's okay to ride an, uh, uh, a bike under the bike regulations and what's a motorcycle and what acts like a motorcycle. And therefore we're going to, we're gonna treat like a motorcycle, these high powered devices. So if it's a pedal assist bike, meaning you, you pedal it, it only goes when you pedal. Uh, those we haven't had any problem with. Uh, so the law enforcement's recommendation is let let the kids ride those, uh, currently supervised use I is with your direct parent, or we added, or a responsible adult if the, if you want to ride independently, our, what we've done is create a safety course similar to what we do with off highway vehicles. So kids who, it gives them a chance to learn the bike rules, learn the roll rules of the road, what they can and can't do. They've gotta obey traffic signs and stop signs. If they take this online course, or it could be offered, offered by a DARE officer in a school or by a, a nonprofit association, say at a, at a sea hall or community organization. Then they get a certificate like they do with the off highway vehicles that allows them to ride independently. So we're actually giving them more freedom, more opportunity to ride. These are for kids, uh, up to 16 years old. So for both the pedal assist bikes and for throttle devices, so a, a class two or e scooters that you use, a illegal e scooter where you use a throttle, uh, that's available for the kids once you're 16, our assumption is you've had enough training to be responsible on a road. And then the e motorcycles you can see treating that just like a regular motorcycle. Uh, you need a motorcycle endorsement and you need to be 16 and, and wear a helmet. Uh, the same thing with these high powered devices. One, one last thing that we had a little snag on the house, on the, on the, on the floor voting, which is why you see some votes against it, is it was unclear whether these device, whether devices are restricted from freeways. Currently, we learned that udot regulates bikes on freeways by rule, not in in statute. The statute gives them the opportunity to do that. Uh, there are maps here that show which highways are, are bikes are not allowed. There's a stretch in Cedar City, a stretch in St. George, and most of the freeways around Salt Lake City, uh, UDOT has agreed to update this, this, uh, and make it clear where bikes are, are not allowed. And then we have an amendment that I would like you to pass that clarifies, because it's not clear in statute that scooters and these high powered devices are not allowed on the freeway. And that, uh, those younger than 16 shouldn't be riding a personal electric vehicle, meaning a, uh, any type of a scooter or e-bike on a freeway at any time. So that is the presentation of the bill. Thanks for your patience.

Correct. House amendment one, uh, for substitute three on February 20th.

I believe we're on the, We're on the third, Third substitute. We're on the third. Yes. Not, not two. We don't want to.

Okay. In my mind. Okay.

We're just talking about highways or, or like a, a, b, or C road, right? We're not talking about private roads or on the dirt, correct?

No, private road mine. The intention is paved highways.

Okay. Whether it's a state highway or a city highway, if there's cars riding on the asphalt considered highway, My grandkids, they have small electric bikes. I don't know how fast they go. Is it stamp on there? Tells You that there, there should be. And if they're, if they're riding under the direct supervision of their parents, then that's fine. Or if they're not in the roadway, uh, then, then they are following law today. Okay? If they're out riding in the middle of the road, we want them to wear a helmet and understand the rules. Well, my fear is, I mean, they're just on my property right now, but they get overconfident and think, well, I'm gonna run down to the store, and then they're on the pavement. Now I'm trying to think, well, how do I combat this and say mean? Grandpa says, you can't go down there, right? So carry grandpa. Tell me to stay out of traffic.

Thank you, chair and members of the committee. My name is Catherine Stokes, representing Intermountain Health. I've been a nurse for 20 years, and most of that time I spent in the pediatric ICU at Primary Children's Hospital. I now serve as the injury prevention and Trauma Outreach Coordinator. So I have the privilege of trying to prevent children from ever needing the ICUI worked in and, uh, for instance, this weekend, I was at a family safety event, the Safe Kids Fair here in Salt Lake County. And I was teaching pedestrian safety to kids and their families. And one theme kept coming up, and it was E-bikes and scoters. What are you doing about that? They come out of nowhere. I'm more worried about my kid getting hit by one of these things than a car. Um, at Primary Children's, we have seen a 66.7% increase in e-bike and scoter injuries in just one year with riders as young as eight years old with coming in with life-threatening injuries. The injury severity of these accidents is much higher than a typical scooter or a bike because of the speed. So that energy transfer that occurs is taken in by the, the tiny body of the child. And the cars that inevitably may hit them aren't able to break because they can't see them. They'll kind of bust straight through a stop sign. And so that poor driver really has little chance to slow their own vehicle down. So we're really having some incredibly severe injuries across Intermountain Health in our emergency departments. In 2025, we treated 536 e-bike and e scooter related traumatic injuries among patients with documented helmet use. Only 38% were wearing a helmet. More than 280 of these patients required hospital admission, ICU care surgery or unfortunately had a fatal injury. And we know that these numbers are likely an underestimate are trauma coding, um, that we've had in the past has not kept up with these new devices. So it's likely an underestimate of the true scope of this issue. And our families, as we are trying to counsel and educate and help prevent them from needing us again in the future, are, are desperately sad. They're saying, I didn't know, I didn't understand the power of this device. Um, the, they don't, there's just currently no understanding of the speed, the power or rules around them. And right now there's no shared language between parents, clinicians, law enforcement, and real retailers. And that's where House Bill 3 81 really comes in strong. It brings that clarity. It standard standardizes device classifications and establishes a safety course. And that builds critical skills. So children taking this course are not only better set up to handle these devices, they're better set up to be better drivers in adulthood. And this bill isn't about limiting kids. It's really empowering for them. It provides clear guidance and practical safety education, which children can gain Independence, explore their communities, and ride with greater confidence and protection. And this matters because when a child is injured, everything stops, school stops, friendships stop, everything's put on hold, parents lose work, families are disrupted, and sometimes the loss is permanent. And these pre preventable injuries also really strain our healthcare system. They divert ICU beds, operating rooms and emergency teams from other critically injured patients. So we at Intermountain Health urge you to support House Bill 3 81. We have the data, we're experiencing these injuries, and we know that these tragedies are preventable. And we'd love to see families get the clarity and tools that they need to keep their children safe. Thank you.

Hi, Heather Anderson, representing the Unified Police Department. And we'd like to thank all of you for hearing this bill and Representative Cutler for, uh, proposing this important legislation that will increase safety for children. And that's what we all want, is to decrease risk for drivers on the road accidentally hitting one of these kids, and make sure that these kids are safe and healthy and protected as best as possible as they go off and regulate. Um, so I don't think I need to say anymore because the Intermountain Healthcare representative spoke so well as to why it's important. Thank you. All Right.

Hello, members of the committee. My name is Kate Bradshaw. I serve as the mayor of Bountiful and also president of the Utah League of Cities and Towns this year. Um, here in support of the bill, um, you saw video footage at the beginning from my city, that is footage we, um, shared in a work session, um, uh, a few, uh, weeks ago where we were talking about the challenges we were dealing with in this space. And our police chief was demonstrating with, um, multiple instances that was just one of, um, what our officers are, are dealing with in this interesting category between e-bikes and e motorcycles and how they interact on our, our, uh, street. So hopefully you were as, um, scared as, as I was to see that, um, that person, first of all, evading a police officer and second, uh, making a left turn, uh, onto a, onto Highway 89 against the light. Um, and so we are, uh, happy to support this bill. We've worked closely with the sponsor, uh, on this bill. Uh, and I agree with his overall goal as well as someone who helps coach area mountain bike teams. We wanna see more kids on bikes. We just wanna see, um, those safe interactions. So thank you for your support of this bill. Thank

Hi. Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee. My name's Hillary Kelner. I'm Deputy Commissioner with the Department of Public Safety. We are in support of Representative Cutler's Bill. Uh, essentially from the public safety perspective, this just makes sense. We've had these issues for a long time. We've been evaluating with our highway safety office and in partnership with UDOT through Zero fatalities, how we can assist in having messaging and education for e-bike use and scoters, and essentially having this course added and another tool for law enforcement to be able to utilize that education purpose. Uh, senator, you, you mentioned your grandkids, and, um, you don't have to say no to them. If anything, now you'll be able to have them have, uh, take this course and they can now be better educated when they go on the roads to keep themselves safe. So essentially it's just giving parents another tool so that we can keep our children safe and encourage them to use those bikes, but ensuring that we save lives at the same time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Representative Cutler, have we done, is this bill deal with anything to help bridge the lack of cooperation with the courts?

Uh, this bill is not directly addressed the courts, other than it, it changes the, there was some evidence that, uh, people were not getting charged for helmet violations because they were very, it's a very, it's a higher level infraction, and this changes the helmet violation for a e-bike or to something very low. So the police officers might be more likely to do an infraction, but that's not really what the courts, uh, so I would say no, this, this doesn't deal with the courts, but that's certainly something we could address if you, if that's in a future bill, if that's a suggestion.

Well, it's my understanding that law enforcement is reluctant to try to enforce the use of these, because the courts don't support 'em in it. Is that,

I I, I think part of it as a courts part of it, from what I've heard from local law enforcement is people don't understand the regulations. And often it's, it's different from, it's not necessarily consistent from city to city because there hasn't been, uh, a consistent, uh, approach. And their, uh, the law enforcement, local law enforcement that I spoke with said, this will help us, because now we can educate people and it's clearer what's allowed and what's not allowed. Therefore, we can do a better job enforcing the law now that it's clearer and, uh, okay. Easier to explain and understand to people. So we, we hope everything I've heard said, we, we think we can get better enforcement if you'll simplify the law, put all the categor, make all the bikes similar categories so that there's not, uh, it's not so hard to differentiate between them.

Uh, yes. Thank you, chair. Sorry, the little dark. Uh, Nate Mutter, uh, chair of the Law Enforcement Legislative Committee, um, uh, coming from Davis County, I'm not sure the rules in this committee. Uh, that said, I would like to just recognize, uh, Representative Cutler for working very closely with law enforcement on this sensitive issue. Uh, we've seen quite a few problems and, uh, injuries and deaths and, and you name it, uh, because of, you know, children and, and, and others, uh, riding these, these bikes, uh, that are, you know, hard to be seen. They, they accelerate fast. Uh, they do things that other, um, uh, you know, bicycles can't do. And, and it creates, uh, a public safety risk, not only for the rider, but but for the others that, that are around those riders. And, uh, we just, uh, appreciate bringing this bill forward and, and urge the committee to pass it out favorably. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to send out HB three 80 ones third sub with a favorable recommendation. Could You adopt First Amendment? Oh, can we adopt And, um, sorry. Yeah, we, we probably need back up. We need to yeah. Adopt his amendment. Okay on that.

Thank you. Can I do that instead then make that Motion? Yeah, let's do that first.

You. I'd like to send HB 3 81 electric mobility device amendments out with a sub three with a favorable recommendation as amend. Okay. As amended.

As amended. Okay. May I discussion to that motion?

Let's go back to representative for summation. I'm grateful For the support. I think this will help save lives and give more kids a chance to learn how to ride safely.

Thank you. Um, I, we're not trying to harsh anybody's joy as they say, but this is really problematic. Our kids are everywhere. They are just doing really scary behavior and, um, I think this is a step in the right direction. So thanks for bringing this forward.

That's correct. Okay. So I'd love you to pull up the, uh, second sub substitute and I'll speak to, uh, speak to that and, uh, talk about, uh, some improvements that we've made in the bill after the after feedback. Uh, let me see here. And I wanted you guys missed out on the most exciting part of my presentation last time because of a technical glitch. So, while you're looking that up, I wanted to provide you just a little bit of entertainment. So here is a, uh, a Bountiful police officer chasing a, uh, youth on a, what we believe it was a youth on a electric motorcycle. You can see them a approaching, and they're on, uh, the youth will, if, if you can see there, they're approaching a, a busier street, and the youth goes up on the sidewalk when it comes to the intersection. He knows he's being chased by or, or being followed by. He goes up on the sidewalk, turns onto the street. At this point, uh, I don't know if you can hear it, but you can kind of see the lights are flashing and, and you know that that motorcycle is wig gone. This is 2,600 South. It's a big four lane highway, very busy, and he's approaching fifth West. And if you can see down there, he's got a red light. He goes out into the intersection, the red light among the traffic, and goes through the red light crossing traffic and, and takes off. At this point, the police officer stops the chase, but that, that's the, the kind of danger that can be presented when, when these types of, of of vehicles are, uh, are on the road. So anyway, uh, that'll, uh, um, just warm you up to the, what our, what our officers are, are facing, um, out there. So I, I thought that was I eye-opening. And over the weekend I was at Station Park in Farmington and Station Parks, uh, has some, some walkable streets, uh, there if you've been there. And, and guess what, were there, there were two kids. They, luckily they had helmets on, but they were riding electric motorcycles, and they were popping wheelies and, and going down the roads in between the shops, uh, you know, and other kids were watching and cheering them on. Uh, so, and to me, n neither of the bikes looked illegal, and even if they were, you can't pop a wheelie and ride it down the road, uh, you know, in a busy shopping center. So, uh, it was just a reminder that we, we have some issues out there, and whatever we can do to make life a little bit safe, safer would be, um, would be helpful. So what did we do? We received some great feedback after the presentation last time, and I'm grateful for the news media for publicizing it. And we got 10, 15 comments from different bike manufacturers, people that are interested, insurance folks, et cetera. So number one, we, we remove the tampering language. Uh, there was an issue around programmable e-bikes and, and clarified that what we're concerned about is an e-bike speed or power output being modified because many people modify their bikes. For example, I, I modify a bike for my son who has only the use of, of, uh, of one hand. So we put both his brakes on one side and all the shifters on one side. So we had, we had moved, we had modified the bike, but we were only concerned about speed and power. And so the manufacturers are asked us to, to clarify that. So, so, and we changed some other definitions, uh, around those two that, that, that better met the manufacturer's. Uh, uh, recommendations We changed that we had in the, uh, in the definitions that e motorcycle had to be was seven, over 750 watts and 20 miles per hour. They ask that we change that. So even if it's less than 750 watts, there's some toy motorcycles that may not be 750 watts, but they clearly go faster than 20 miles an hour, and they could be captured under, under that. Uh, there we had made a mistake and required disclosure, uh, on a label for e-bikes that was intended only to be for e motorcycles or, or things that don't meet the definition of an e-bike. Uh, we changed that. Um, there, the, the biggest thing that we were concerned about is that some of the, uh, there was a concern whether the definitions that we had in the bill would have required insurance to cover devices that aren't legal, uh, motorcycles. And so we made it clear that we're not trying to change any insurance policies. That my understanding, and some of you may have more expertise in this than, than I do, is that you can only in insure give motorcycle insurance to a bike that has a VIN and, and is can be legal at least for, for the road. So we've, we've been working to make sure we fi we fix the insurance issues and that things that are not motorcycles and can't get motorcycle insurance are still covered under your homeowner's insurance. If you have a bike and someone hits you, or there's an accident involving that, then, uh, my understanding, I've been told that's covered under, uh, your homeowner's insurance requirements. So we tried to make, fix that problem that we were completely unaware of, uh, oth. Other than that, the, and, and we, um, thanks to the good folks at the division of Outdoor Recreation. There were some technical cleanups from, uh, from previous. There was a misspelling, there was an incorrect reference, and we, we cleaned up, uh, a number of a couple of technical things for them as well, and, and put that into Bill. Uh, but the main policy, uh, issues remain the same. We're trying to, uh, give kids that right now are technically breaking the law by riding e-bikes around, give them a way to legally ride the law and to ride their bikes and improve safety.

That concludes my presentation.

Uh, hello. My name is, uh, Dr. Jonathan Nichol. I'm an emergency physician and I work in Bountiful at Lake U Hospital. Um, as somebody that sees the outcome of what could potentially happen from kids riding around bikes that, uh, that, uh, go faster and faster and have, have more and more consequence to those, to those speeds, uh, I definitely would support this bill. And, and I appreciate the safety aspect to what, to what it provides, and also offers clarification to parents when they're looking to purchase a bike like this. What are they getting into?

I think they're on it on. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, David Sfor on behalf of the Utah Chiefs of Police Association. First, we want to thank, uh, Representative Cutler, Representative Defay for all of all of their work on this issue. Uh, e-bikes and e motorcycles. What you just saw in the video is something that our officers see almost every day in every situation, whether it's on the roads, whether it's on golf courses. We've had significant damage to golf courses in a number of cities, uh, simply because of what's going on. The city of, city of Draper, and I think the Canyon School District are getting, is getting sued by a manufacturer for attempting to enforce the laws as we have it today. Uh, public safety is our goal. Public safety is what we wanna do. We wanna protect all the public. It's very difficult when there's a certain segment that don't wanna be protected and want to put other people's lives in danger. And that's what we're seeing. Now. Do we want to overregulate? Absolutely not, but we want to do our jobs. And so the, we have worked very closely with Representative Cutler. We believe this is a good step forward. Is it the answer? Quite frankly, we don't know, and I think Representative Cutler would say that, but we've looked at what other states have done and tried to figure, figure out what we can do, uh, to try to, to try to enhance, uh, and, and allow our officers to do their job. We would encourage your support of House Bill 3 81, and we appreciate everything. Again, the Representative Cutler and Representative Defay have done.

Hi, thank you so much. Keegan Martino. I'm a plaintiff's attorney here in Utah, uh, where we deal with these catastrophic accidents and collisions that everybody's talking about, and I see it on a regular basis. Um, we, I represent the Utah Association for Justice in our stance on the bill, and I've been working with Senator Cutler on trying to fill a gap of coverage that the bill currently would create. And so last time I spoke on, I, I think I was a little bit unclear. So let me help, um, clarify those issues. So the, the gap of insurance coverage that this bill would create is on the underinsured motorist coverage or uninsured motorist coverage because it's, it classifies, um, high, uh, high electric vehicles as motorcycles, but it doesn't give motorcycles any or these high, um, electric vehicles in any way to get insurance coverage. What it does, and I think Senator Cutler, we were able to address that. Um, it allows electric motorcycles. Now they can be registered and as a motorcycle and they can get motorcycle coverage, but these high electric vehicles that aren't necessarily motorcycles aren't, don't have a VIN if somebody's riding those, um, down the street and gets hit by an uninsured driver or an underinsured driver. So this is going to be a, a child, a kid that gets hit on an e-bike, and that e-bike would be classified as a motorcycle, but it's not, doesn't have a van, doesn't require it to be registered as a motorcycle. Well, what happens is that kid is excluded from any current auto insurance policies for underinsured motorist coverage or uninsured motorist coverage, and that's protecting themselves. That's, I'm not talking about liability coverage, which is what Senator Cutler was talking about before, which it's covered by homeowners insurance when they're not electric motorcycles. However, now, because the bill would classify these, what people would purchase as e-bikes as an electric motorcycle, which is categorized as a motorcycle in every underinsured motorist coverage policy has an exclusion for motorcycles. They are not covered for underinsured motorist coverage or uninsured motorist coverage as well. So it leaves, it leaves no insurance coverage, um, for that. And I don't think that's the intent. And I'm happy to continue to work on the language to make sure that we're not creating a gap in coverage where Utah families can't protect their kids and, and themselves when they ride a e-bike or these high electrical devices from an uninsured driver that ha is skirting the law. That's the whole point of having your ability to buy uninsured motorist coverage. But the, the definitions would exclude these devices from coverage if you're using that, that, um, electric bike or electric motorcycle. So that would be my only concern. Okay.

Th Thank you. We worked with Mr. Marne and, and appreciate his input. Uh, line 10 13 is where we, we thought we were. It was liability issue. We put language in there to make it clear that high power electric device, something that's, uh, doesn't meet the definition of an e-bike, uh, that we're not changing the insurance, uh, requirements, uh, uh, the uninsured motorist, uh, is, is a area that I don't have any expertise in. We're happy to, I'm happy to listen to him some more. I've referred the comments to our insurance commissioner to try to get maybe a neutral third party to say, is there an issue here? And can we, uh, make sure we're, we're not forcing insurance companies to cover things that normally they wouldn't cover, because there, there's a reason. Some they, you know, they don't want to insure an, an illegal buy illegal legal device as an, as a motorcycle, but we want people to be protected. So I, I'll, I'll continue to work on this and if there's, uh, something more that we need to, to narrow this, happy to do that. Uh, I, I think we're, I, we thought we had covered this, uh, in, in the in line what we've done there in line 10 13. Okay.

Yeah, I think the bill sponsor did a really good job addressing concerns, and I think it's ready to move forward.

Thank you. We think this is a better, we appreciate the, the feedback from, from industry and from individuals, and we think we're making this better.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think you've done a great job and in cleaning this up and simplifying it a great deal. Um, I'm still just a little uneasy and curious about lines 10 34 to 10 43. It's the disclosure where anyone that sells, uh, a vehicle has to make the disclosure under, you know, some penalty of, I mean, it's infraction and whatnot, but, but to make, I guess maybe I should ask, is that a retail seller or is that any seller at all that sells a a, a vehicle like this?

So, cur my, my understanding and, and maybe there's others who could, who could speak to this and help me with this, is currently devices have to have the sticker on them today and or, or bikes have the stickers on them. And we've, we've added a, a line, various bikes, bikes had different stickers depending on the class, and we tried to simplify the notification. Uh, you're right, this says a, a seller of a new or used vehicle, uh, vehicle. The intent was that this was for retail sellers. Uh, the reality is many of the online sellers don't follow Utah requirements, and it's very hard to enforce. But my understanding is bike shops and any bike, uh, manufacturers in, in Utah have, have willingly followed this without any, any trouble before. Uh, you, you bring out a a a good point though, that would this apply to an individual who bought a bike online that didn't have the sticker? Would they have to apply it? We hadn't thought of that scenario. That's an interesting scenario. And maybe we could look and, and make it clear that we're talking about a re a commercial seller, right? Not, not an individual

Who sat their bike. I think that I'd be, I'd be a lot more comfortable. I just, you know, you have somebody that has no idea, we've done this and doesn't pay attention to our every move up here and, you know, sells a bike that they got and had no idea they have to disclose. I'd just be a little concerned about that. So, I mean, I, I think, uh, you know, if you're willing to look at that and work on that, I think other than that, I'm comfortable with it. Absolutely. And, and

Hey, uh, representative, could you just, um, remind me, I, I may have missed this part of your presentation, but electric assisted scooters, what are, what are you doing to those poor kids?

Thank you. I don't know if we could put this up back up on the screen, but we're, we're dividing. Thank you. We are enabling kids to ride more and to ride safely and to do more things, uh, to, to, to, to be safer. So there's, we're dividing up the scooters into two categories today. Today the law says a motor assisted scooter is limited to 15 miles per hour. And we're actually not changing that if you're riding a motor assisted scooter. But there are devices out there that go faster than 15 miles an hour. The, the one that's suing, uh, the Canyon School District in Draper City can go much, much faster than that. Uh, and, and there was really no classification for those devices that go faster than what's allowed. So the, your normal, the current law, which is most scoters that follow the motor assisted scooter definition, they fall under the throttle devices in class two. And today, you are not, my understanding is you are not required to wear a helmet, uh, when you're riding in the middle of traffic with those devices. If you're under 16 or if you're under 21, or it's not clear. If you are not, it's a good idea to wear a helmet. If you're writing one of those devices in the middle of the traffic street, we we're clarifying to say, yes, you should wear a helmet there. And then we're, we're making sure that these higher powered devices that weren't really in the code, and they weren't really captured, were putting those in the high powered, uh, uh, electric device, high powered mobility device category to say, if you can go outside the bounds of everything we've defy, we've, we've defined, then kids shouldn't be writing these on the street at 40 miles an hour. Uh, let's, if you're, if you're 16 and up and you've been trained on this, you get a motorcycle endorsement or you take a safety class, then you know it, it's a free country. You can do what you want. But we don't want 12 year olds riding a device going 40 miles an hour down the street with no helmet. So, so, so the low end scoters are just treated like

a class two E-bike, correct?

Correct. Which I now know what that is. It's this one. It's, it's the, yeah, it's that one and that's the same as the scooter.

Okay. So then, and then if it's a high power e scooter, it's a motorcycle.

It, it's, it's treated, it's, it's not a motorcycle for insurance purposes. Right. But it's regulated as the same way for safety purposes. We're saying if you wanna, if you wanna ride these, you should get training like you would a motorcycle or you should get some other safety training, because we know there's some people who don't want to get a driver's license, uh, but, but still use these devices. And we thought, okay, at least get a safety certificate. But if you're over 16, we're, I'm not concerned.

I might be convinced that they should have a driver's license. I, I, that would be a safer thing, but yeah. Great. Well, I guess there can be more conversations later.

Yeah, I'm, I'm happy to.

I believe this will enable more kids to ride independently and to do that safely give parents tools to understand which devices are appropriate for kids in which aren't, help clarify regulations and allow people to enjoy the outdoors riding, uh, electric devices.

Motion to circle, Mr. Speaker,

Yes, please. We have, uh, a minor substitute that has some of the suggestions made by members of our caucus. And, uh, I don't think you have that in your possession, so we'd like to wait a few minutes until that arrives.

Mr. Speaker ProAm, I'd like to move third substitute of HP 3 81.

Yes, I would. Thank you. This substitute incorporates a number of the suggestions from my colleagues, including, uh, that only the commercial seller of an e-bike or an eev device, uh, has to disclose certain, uh, or put a sticker, uh, with a notice on that so that private sellers, uh, are not subject to that to requirement. Uh, it, it updates the maximum fine for a helmet violation. In current law, our current law does not distinguish between an e-bike helmet violation and a motorcycle helmet violation. This leaves the motorcycle helmet violation as an infraction, but if you are riding a, an e-bike or a scooter or one of the lower power devices, then the, it's a maximum, uh, fine of $25 for a helmet violation. Uh, it gives the department of, uh, uh, public safety and an the option to charge a fee of up to $10 for a safety class, but they don't have to. And it incorporates, uh, the suggestion from my good colleague who, who has an amendment on this from Provo, that if you have a driver's license, if you're 16-year-old or have a driver's license, then you, uh, have enough safety training to operate a what, what I'll present as a high powered electric vehicle, a scooter, or a, a bike that's outside of our normal regulations. You're allowed to ride that on the street.

Thank you. Uh, colleagues. I appreciate, uh, the opportunity to present this currently in our regulations around e-bikes, scoters and e motorcycle. We have a mishmash of regulations. They're very, and that has led to inconsistent enforcement and misunderstandings among parents and riders about what is allowed and what is not allowed. This, uh, uh, attempts to simplify those regulations, give parents better information, and update the regulations for the new waves of devices that we see out there. It also, the intent is to give parents, uh, more information on making a good decision on what kind of device to buy and to promote youth Independence. We want more kids riding bikes, more kids off their screens and outside. We want them doing it safely. So I'll, uh, I will not use a prop, but I will point you to a handout that you received yesterday that tries to summarize this complex, uh, set of, uh, changes into a simple table that we've worked on with, with chiefs and with, uh, stakeholders, bike companies, et cetera. So in summary, this distinguishes between VI devices that go less than 20 miles an hour and meet the definitions of a motor assisted scooter or an e-bike. And those devices that go that on the use of a throttle only, not under your own power, but use of a throttle would go more than 20 miles an hour or that and that, or are defined as a motorcycle or that don't meet our definitions. For example, today we have high powered scooters that can go 65 miles an hour that don't meet our classifications. There are other very fast, very powerful devices that don't meet a current definition. So this, this captures those in a category called a high powered electric device. Makes it clear that in order to ride one of those on the street, you should, uh, have a driver's license. If you're going to ride an electric motorcycle on the street, it should be just like a gas motorcycle that you have to have a driver's license and a motorcycle endorsement. The part of this bill that I think is most helpful is that it gives, currently our, our regulations state that, uh, a youth, if you're a, if you're a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old, you're not allowed to ride an e-bike unless it's under the direct supervision of your parents. That's not happening today. We have kids, uh, riding them independently, which is we want them to ride independently, but many of them have never, they don't know the rules for riding on a, on a road or not. And so this sets up an, uh, uh, a dual path option. They can ride under the supervision of their parents or a responsible adult, or they can take a short online safety training or training, get some training from a DARE officer who might come to their school and get a safety certificate that would allow them to ride independently without supervision. We believe this will allow more kids to ride confidently and safely and improve, uh, safety overall on our roads. This bill only deals with bikes and EE devices on a highway. It does not deal with trails, sidewalks, anything outside of a highway is up to a local governments to determine, uh, and their rules stand. We're only concerned about kids riding in traffic on a highway. Uh, if, if you're curious about the different classes there, the classes are listed on the, on the back of the handout. And with that, uh, Mr. Speaker, I'll open to questions.

Thanks. That's an, that's an excellent question. So if, if you're riding a pedal assist bike, which is a class one or a class three, then that, uh, is, uh, the, we're not con there, there's, there are li limited restrictions on that. What we're concerned about is devices that can go more than 20 miles an hour via a throttle on its own power on a flat surface. So it's defined as a flat surface with no pedaling. It can go more than 20 miles an hour. That would fall under the category of a, a high powered, uh, electric device.

Thank you. Excellent question. Highway is defined. It could be a city, street or a, a state highway. Any, any paved, uh, public highway or, or public street, city or state. Okay,

Between eight and 15 years old, which is currently, the, the restrictions on most of these devices are between eight and 15. Once you're 16, uh, the, the assumption is you've had enough training, hopefully you've been through some driver's ed or have a driver's license, and you're, you're on your own if you're 16 or older.

That, that's correct. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro Tem. I just wanna rise in suppo support and thank the good sponsor for bringing forward such an important and thoughtful piece of legislation. As many of you know, the use of, uh, e motorcycles and e-bikes among our youth have become a problem in many communities, and he has done great work to bring stakeholders together and come up with a really reasonable policy that I believe will give law enforcement the tools that they need to help regulate, um, these bikes and also inform parents on what is appropriate and what is safe for their children.

Representative Christofferson. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm. Uh, so I appreciate this bill. It does a few things. It helps to, uh, standardize all of the, with all of the new technology. Uh, we've got a lot of different vehicles out there now, and, uh, this helps standardize the area of bicycles. It still allows the cities to have input on that, and it, uh, it, it, it is an update to our standards that haven't been updated for a while, so appreciate the work on it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro. Tim, will the sponsor yield to a question Sponsor yield?

Absolutely. Thank you.

Uh, will this bill prohibit road cyclists from riding in lanes of traffic on highways?

This bill does not address the thorny issue of cyclists, uh, and, and their interaction with, with vehicles.

You. Mr. Speaker Pro tem with the sponsor. Yield to a question please.

Okay. A couple of questions actually. Um, so we have this, uh, 8-year-old threshold. What, what is the situation with say, a seven or a 6-year-old?

So, uh, that's an excellent question. My, my understanding is that current law, uh, also o only allows those eight and older to, uh, operate electric assisted scooters or electric bikes. This does not change that. It clarifies that, uh, as, as, uh, those younger than eight are not au uh, are not authorized to operate electric vehicles on a highway. That doesn't mean they can't ride a bike. Uh, only electric, uh, vehicles or electric bikes and electric scooters on a highway in traffic. My, uh, so that's the answer.

Okay. Um, thank you. No change Mr. Speaker. Um, another question, please. Yes.

Um, what about those that have a certificate? Do they need to carry that certificate with them? Or is how do, if something occurs, how would they know? How would a, a law enforcement officer know?

Great question. The intent is to set up the program just like we do our outdoor recreation, uh, vehicles that, uh, a either a printed certificate or a downloaded certificate you could download to a phone would be available. The expectation, or my my understanding is the language is, uh, that they're, they're have to be in That they have earned that certificate. Uh, obviously there could be a question of, of whether they're carrying it with them. The, this, the certificate is a secondary, they could only be stopped if it was a, and asked about that as a secondary offense, not as a primary offense. So officers can't just stop and quiz people if they have, uh, certificates, uh, or not. The, what local officers want to do is to be able to just educate people, help them, encourage them to get training. They all want more people riding bikes, but they want them doing it safely.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Proton. Motion to circle Motion is to circle, would like to speak to it, Um, yes. In reviewing the language on the second substitute, and after confirming with the drafter, it appears that the language would do, um, go beyond what I believe the sponsor is intending and would actually allow eight year olds with parental supervision to operate these on the I 15 corridor, west Davis Corridor, mountain View Corridor, um, and so forth. And I appreciate what he is trying to do. We just wanna make sure we can get that language clear.

Uh, I, I would resist that I, my understanding is on the third substitute that some language was, was added to address that. Um, um, I can try to find the line 1905. I would also add that there is, there is no change in the, to my knowledge in the regulations around the minimum age and, and writing on a, uh, a multi-lane highway versus a, a road or, and, and there was no discussion about changing that language. So if, if there is a change, I'd love to be alerted to that

Concludes my comments. Motion

Thank you. Um, the third sub in line 1393 still references. It says that a child under eight years old may not operate on a highway. Um, I don't believe you should be on the I 15 corridor without a driver's license, regardless of what mode of transportation that you're using. Um, so I just wanna make sure that we can make this very clear.

Mr. Speaker, I, I, I I'm happy to, uh,

Uh, a uh, I call the question

Representative Cutler for summation Call colleagues, uh, I believe that this bill increases, uh, uh, freedom and allows more kids to be off screens and riding bikes. If there is, I I will speak with the drafting attorney and make sure if there's any ambiguity about riding a, a youth riding on a freeway, I would commit to fixing that. Uh, if, if there is an issue with that, and I would urge your support. I think this improves safety and improves freedom for people riding, uh, bikes and the classifications to capture the new types of devices, I think are very important. Uh, so I would appreciate your support on this as would, uh, uh, our local communities.

Mr. Speaker ProAm, I'd like to move third substitute of HP 3 81.

Yes, I would. Thank you. This substitute incorporates a number of the suggestions from my colleagues, including, uh, that only the commercial seller of an e-bike or an eev device, uh, has to disclose certain, uh, or put a sticker, uh, with a notice on that so that private sellers, uh, are not subject to that to requirement. Uh, it, it updates the maximum fine for a helmet violation. In current law, our current law does not distinguish between an e-bike helmet violation and a motorcycle helmet violation. This leaves the motorcycle helmet violation as an infraction, but if you are riding a, an e-bike or a scooter or one of the lower power devices, then the, it's a maximum, uh, fine of $25 for a helmet violation. Uh, it gives the department of, uh, uh, public safety and an the option to charge a fee of up to $10 for a safety class, but they don't have to. And it incorporates, uh, the suggestion from my good colleague who, who has an amendment on this from Provo, that if you have a driver's license, if you're 16-year-old or have a driver's license, then you, uh, have enough safety training to operate a what, what I'll present as a high powered electric vehicle, a scooter, or a, a bike that's outside of our normal regulations. You're allowed to ride that on the street.

Thank you. Uh, colleagues. I appreciate, uh, the opportunity to present this currently in our regulations around e-bikes, scoters and e motorcycle. We have a mishmash of regulations. They're very, and that has led to inconsistent enforcement and misunderstandings among parents and riders about what is allowed and what is not allowed. This, uh, uh, attempts to simplify those regulations, give parents better information, and update the regulations for the new waves of devices that we see out there. It also, the intent is to give parents, uh, more information on making a good decision on what kind of device to buy and to promote youth Independence. We want more kids riding bikes, more kids off their screens and outside. We want them doing it safely. So I'll, uh, I will not use a prop, but I will point you to a handout that you received yesterday that tries to summarize this complex, uh, set of, uh, changes into a simple table that we've worked on with, with chiefs and with, uh, stakeholders, bike companies, et cetera. So in summary, this distinguishes between VI devices that go less than 20 miles an hour and meet the definitions of a motor assisted scooter or an e-bike. And those devices that go that on the use of a throttle only, not under your own power, but use of a throttle would go more than 20 miles an hour or that and that, or are defined as a motorcycle or that don't meet our definitions. For example, today we have high powered scooters that can go 65 miles an hour that don't meet our classifications. There are other very fast, very powerful devices that don't meet a current definition. So this, this captures those in a category called a high powered electric device. Makes it clear that in order to ride one of those on the street, you should, uh, have a driver's license. If you're going to ride an electric motorcycle on the street, it should be just like a gas motorcycle that you have to have a driver's license and a motorcycle endorsement. The part of this bill that I think is most helpful is that it gives, currently our, our regulations state that, uh, a youth, if you're a, if you're a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old, you're not allowed to ride an e-bike unless it's under the direct supervision of your parents. That's not happening today. We have kids, uh, riding them independently, which is we want them to ride independently, but many of them have never, they don't know the rules for riding on a, on a road or not. And so this sets up an, uh, uh, a dual path option. They can ride under the supervision of their parents or a responsible adult, or they can take a short online safety training or training, get some training from a DARE officer who might come to their school and get a safety certificate that would allow them to ride independently without supervision. We believe this will allow more kids to ride confidently and safely and improve, uh, safety overall on our roads. This bill only deals with bikes and EE devices on a highway. It does not deal with trails, sidewalks, anything outside of a highway is up to a local governments to determine, uh, and their rules stand. We're only concerned about kids riding in traffic on a highway. Uh, if, if you're curious about the different classes there, the classes are listed on the, on the back of the handout. And with that, uh, Mr. Speaker, I'll open to questions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro Tem. I just wanna rise in suppo support and thank the good sponsor for bringing forward such an important and thoughtful piece of legislation. As many of you know, the use of, uh, e motorcycles and e-bikes among our youth have become a problem in many communities, and he has done great work to bring stakeholders together and come up with a really reasonable policy that I believe will give law enforcement the tools that they need to help regulate, um, these bikes and also inform parents on what is appropriate and what is safe for their children.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm. Uh, so I appreciate this bill. It does a few things. It helps to, uh, standardize all of the, with all of the new technology. Uh, we've got a lot of different vehicles out there now, and, uh, this helps standardize the area of bicycles. It still allows the cities to have input on that, and it, uh, it, it, it is an update to our standards that haven't been updated for a while, so appreciate the work on it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro. Tim, will the sponsor yield to a question Sponsor yield?

Absolutely. Thank you.

Uh, will this bill prohibit road cyclists from riding in lanes of traffic on highways?

This bill does not address the thorny issue of cyclists, uh, and, and their interaction with, with vehicles.

Thank you.

You. Mr. Speaker Pro tem with the sponsor. Yield to a question please.

Okay. A couple of questions actually. Um, so we have this, uh, 8-year-old threshold. What, what is the situation with say, a seven or a 6-year-old? So, uh, that's an excellent question. My, my understanding is that current law, uh, also o only allows those eight and older to, uh, operate electric assisted scooters or electric bikes. This does not change that. It clarifies that, uh, as, as, uh, those younger than eight are not au uh, are not authorized to operate electric vehicles on a highway. That doesn't mean they can't ride a bike. Uh, only electric, uh, vehicles or electric bikes and electric scooters on a highway in traffic. My, uh, so that's the answer. Okay. Um, thank you. No change Mr. Speaker. Um, another question, please. Yes. Um, what about those that have a certificate? Do they need to carry that certificate with them? Or is how do, if something occurs, how would they know? How would a, a law enforcement officer know?

Great question. The intent is to set up the program just like we do our outdoor recreation, uh, vehicles that, uh, a either a printed certificate or a downloaded certificate you could download to a phone would be available. The expectation, or my my understanding is the language is, uh, that they're, they're have to be in That they have earned that certificate. Uh, obviously there could be a question of, of whether they're carrying it with them. The, this, the certificate is a secondary, they could only be stopped if it was a, and asked about that as a secondary offense, not as a primary offense. So officers can't just stop and quiz people if they have, uh, certificates, uh, or not. The, what local officers want to do is to be able to just educate people, help them, encourage them to get training. They all want more people riding bikes, but they want them doing it safely.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Proton. Motion to circle Motion is to circle, would like to speak to it, Um, yes. In reviewing the language on the second substitute, and after confirming with the drafter, it appears that the language would do, um, go beyond what I believe the sponsor is intending and would actually allow eight year olds with parental supervision to operate these on the I 15 corridor, west Davis Corridor, mountain View Corridor, um, and so forth. And I appreciate what he is trying to do. We just wanna make sure we can get that language clear.

Uh, I, I would resist that I, my understanding is on the third substitute that some language was, was added to address that. Um, um, I can try to find the line 1905. I would also add that there is, there is no change in the, to my knowledge in the regulations around the minimum age and, and writing on a, uh, a multi-lane highway versus a, a road or, and, and there was no discussion about changing that language. So if, if there is a change, I'd love to be alerted to that

Concludes my comments. Motion

Thank you. Um, the third sub in line 1393 still references. It says that a child under eight years old may not operate on a highway. Um, I don't believe you should be on the I 15 corridor without a driver's license, regardless of what mode of transportation that you're using. Um, so I just wanna make sure that we can make this very clear.

Uh, a uh, I call the question

Call colleagues, uh, I believe that this bill increases, uh, uh, freedom and allows more kids to be off screens and riding bikes. If there is, I I will speak with the drafting attorney and make sure if there's any ambiguity about riding a, a youth riding on a freeway, I would commit to fixing that. Uh, if, if there is an issue with that, and I would urge your support. I think this improves safety and improves freedom for people riding, uh, bikes and the classifications to capture the new types of devices, I think are very important. Uh, so I would appreciate your support on this as would, uh, uh, our local communities.

Tim third substitute house Bill 3 81 aims to encourage more kids to ride bikes and to do so safely while independent with its consistent fair application of law. This bill will give parents and riders the ability to make better informed decisions on their engagement with electronic mobility devices. Uh, we're talking about e-bikes here and in turn, reduce injuries and fatalities that have resulted from these devices. So the key points of this bill is that promotes youth Independence. Currently, those under 14 are not allowed to ride an e-bike without adult supervision. Now, that's the law. That's not what's happening. But this bill, um, safely extends the age range of those allowed to ride certain e devices without supervision if they have their safety certification and with adult supervision if they do not. Um, and so it extends that age range, uh, with that certification. It also creates a category for high powered electric devices, um, which clarifies that Eess scooters and other high powered devices are not allowed on freeways. Believe it or not, that's not in the law. Um, and it clarifies that mobile devices, um, uh, it closes some loopholes like installing pedals on an e motorcycle and speed modifications. And, um, there are provisions of local control. This deal bill only deals with these devices on highway or paved roads. Local roads are left within the authority of cities and counties. With that, I'll yield to any questions.

Okay. So on these e-bikes, there's a couple different categories of e-bikes. Can you tell me what this applies to? I think usually the cutoff is like 20 miles per hour is and below is one and 20 miles per and above is another. I don't know if I'm getting that right.

Yeah. So I believe that this applies to all of the categories. So right now the law is that those under 14 are not allowed to ride an e-bike without an adult with them. So this would change that so that they can ride a bike legally as long as they have, um, a safety certification. So this is really designed in that regard to encourage parents to, to get their kids to get a safety certification.

Can You, Senator, Senator Brammer, Can you describe what the safety certification entails, Senator Weiler?

Well, um, let me circle and get that answer and I'll come back and encircle. I, I mean, I don't know that Go ahead. You, you Have to, to, okay. So right now, um, I, I think, well, yeah, I, I just need to get that. So right now, if it, uh, the, the device pedal assist bikes are class one and three, throttle devices are Class two E-bikes and most e scooters. Um, and this would allow pedal assist bikes, class one and three to be used by eight to 15 year olds, as well as the throttle devices to be used by, um, eight, eight to 15 year olds. But I, I need to read the bill a little bit more further to see how they actually obtain their safety certification. Yeah.

And Senator Brammer. And I don't know that my concern is necessarily with the exact methodology of the safety certification, but, um, I think we already have the loss somewhat wrong in this space, in the sense that we're telling kids they can't ride an e-bike without parental supervision. And when they don't, they're acting improperly. Frankly, I'd rather just have them ride their e-bikes if they're not, they're really high speed ones. Um, and so what I worry about is now we're taking what is already in my view, kind of a, a position of over supervision of kids and saying we're gonna add a regulatory and licensing scheme on top of it, which in my mind makes it worse. And so I I, as the bill is currently, uh, constructed, I would not be in support of it. But thank you.

Well, Mr. President, since we have, um, suspended the rules and we're going for final passage, I, I would prefer to move to circle and, uh, talk to the senator offline and then I'll come back and encircle.

I started to present this before lunch and, uh, Senator Brammer had some questions. Uh, I wanted to get some further clarification on that. I I do understand this is not his favorite bill of the session, but I I do believe it's still a good bill. Um, the current law requires supervision for children on e-bikes. Um, HB 3 81 actually allows for unsupervised use, which is more freedom than allowed under the law today. The bill expands supervised use from only a parent to a parent or other responsible adult. It also allows unsupervised legal use if the youth watches a short 20 minute, 10 minute, uh, video online on bike laws and safety after a short training. Or they can do it with a DARE officer at school. Um, so when I first, I ran the first e-bike legislation in the state about a decade ago, and back then e-bikes were kind of a novelty. I had one at the time and I hardly knew anybody with one Since then, the industry has exploded as a $3 billion industry in the United States now, and it's growing at about 15% per year. And I think that this bill adds some really good components in here. It has some rules for high power electric devices. Um, it provides a section on the personal electric Vehicle safety program, retailer disclosure requirements. Um, it, it deals with what law enforcement, uh, does when they, when they find a child who's riding a bike, that they're, they're, they're unsupervised when they're supposed to be supervised. And, um, um, I can give a summary of the licenses, the safety courses modeled after an off highway vehicle education program. And the certification is a pathway to Independence for use ages eight to 15. So with that, I'd be happy to yield again to any questions.

Thank you, Mr. President. I, I just wanted to, um, offer thanks to the sponsors of this bill, given the increasing number of injuries that I have seen in the emergency department and actually across emergency departments across this state related to injuries in our youth on these sometimes really powerful devices. So I think thought that is going into this is appreciated and, and will be protective of our kids. So thank you for that.

Thank you. I recognize that I think that the efforts of the house sponsor and the Senate sponsor are to, to expand this in some way, right? Like, let's, if the law requires parental supervision, let's, let's give kids away to do this without parental supervision. But so two things here make me nervous. One, we're requiring kids now to get a driver's license in order to ride their bike around the neighborhood. And that seems really heavy handed to me, even a bike with a battery on it. Um, and second, uh, you know, the, the sponsor talked about how there's this law that currently exists that kids are, have to be supervised if they're riding a bike, but also that it's not enforced. And I'm not aware of any child anywhere in the state. Certainly none of my constituents who reached out to me about being ticketed for, uh, riding their electric bike without their parent around. In fact, this, uh, uh, you know, I see this, uh, all the time in my neighborhood. It did not occur to me that such a thing would be illegal. We ought to be trying to fix that. Uh, uh, for those reasons. I think that we are, um, really in an effort to be, to expand freedom. We're really just overregulating this and moving in the wrong direction.

Yeah, I mean, this is an assumption of risk issue. And if we want to have, I mean, I grew up skiing, ski racing, and I think the fastest that I ever clocked myself was going somewhere around. I I just hit between 75 and 80. Um, but I was a downhill racer. And so I would, you know, we would do training at high speeds. I didn't have to get a license for that. And, and if I fell, you know, and we fell and we got injured and we cut ourselves on ski edges, we did jumps, we did all kinds of crazy things on skis, but we did not need licenses despite the fact that we were going in some instances four times the speed of what these bikes can go. And normally you're not, I mean, that's when the mountain is cleared and you know, there, you don't have other skiers on the mountain to do that. But we were, you know, regularly above 40 or 50 miles per hour, even free skiing. And, and it's just, I worry about, you know, we, we talk about the coddling of the American child and it's like now we're gonna license the American child. And I'm just not okay with that. I, I feel like the law's in the wrong place already and this takes it to a worse place. And so I'm not in favor of licensing children to ride bikes even if they have an electric motor on them. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. President. Um, you know, when I think about my children riding their bicycles and they're like, I don't wanna wear helmet, I said, it's a law you should put a helmet on. So it gave me some cover. And then, you know, if we can say that every kid shouldn't be looking at their cell phones during schools, we can actually tell kids that they should be wearing helmets and treating their e-bikes responsibly. So if you're saying that we shouldn't be doing overreach, then let's not do any overreach Burton's name.

Thank you. I I will sum Senator, Senator Mikel, you want you, you up to speak.

Yeah, I, I can wanna rise in support of this bill. Um, I got a little bit of experience with this issue, um, where, where my farm sits, I, I kind of wrap the river trail in Spanish Fork. This is a running trail. And there, I think there's a difference here that I've seen between just standard e-bikes, which I don't think I have the, the strict requirements, but there there is an e dirt bike that I see in pretty dangerous areas and, and they're incredibly quick. I took my neighbors, I tipped it over pretty fast. I know these will do 70, 80 miles an hour. And, and I, I think there's a, I think there, I think there is a purpose for this bill. And, and I think it does, it does attempt to solve a problem that is, that is very, very real. And, and I think where, where I, where I sit with my experience, um, where I'm right on a right on a river trail, um, it's kind of a running trail. I, I see this problem and I think it's, I think it's more significant than we, than we may, may realize for that I rise in support of this bill.

You. I I will sum briefly and I, I want people to listen clearly. 'cause I don't think the bill has been, and I've done a poor job of, of presenting it. Apparently their only driver's license needed under this bill is for a motorcycle. This bill does not require a driver's license for an E-bike. Number two, if you vote no on this bill, you're voting for less freedom. This bill, the, the current, I mean, I understand some people don't like the current law in place. Any, any senator can run a bill to change that. This actually makes the current law better. So a no vote because you don't want regulation is to keep a more onerous regulation that's already in the law in place. A lot of people ask me why do we run so many bills? And one of my answers is we have evolving technology. This e-bikes and e motorcycles are evolving technology and we as a government, we have to respond to that. And in terms of enforcement, if your kid or your neighbor's kid is riding an e-bike 30 miles an hour down the sidewalk and they hit another kid or another adult, they are going to be cited and somebody's gonna go to the hospital. And, and that's why I think it's important to try to get some of this safety, um, training, um, on the internet for free. Um, uh, promoted. And with that, I'll, I'll call the question and move that third substitute house Bill 360 1 pass

of the president, Madam Marine Clerk Third Substitute House Bill 3 81 Electric Mobility Device Amendments by Representative Cutler.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to concur.

I would. Thanks. Uh, again, these ideas were house ideas. The good representative from Eagle Mountain pointed out that, uh, the code does not specifically prohibit, uh, uh, bikes on freeways and the, uh, traditionally udot had managed where bicycles are allowed on freeways and where they're not allowed on interstate freeways by rural. And they, UDOT has a beautiful map that shows basically in the Salt Lake area, you can't ride on uh, interstate highways, but in rural Utah you can, uh, UDOT was fine with the house suggestion that we make it clear in the state code that you can't ride electric scooters, uh, high powered electric devices on, on interstate freeways and also no youth, anyone 16 or younger, uh, is, is not allowed to ride an e-bike on a freeway, on an interstate freeway in anywhere. And Udot agreed it was time to update their map so they will also update their map. Those are the, uh, reasons to concur.