H.B. 385 Specialized Product Sales Amendments

What this bill does

The bill would create a new specialized products license for tobacco, vaping, CBD, and similar product shops, with a $600 yearly fee that pays for Department of Agriculture and Food oversight. It would also require registration of products sold, let the state act against licenses when illegal products are found, and close a billboard advertising loophole.

Plain-English summary written by AI from the sponsor’s presentation in committee and on the floor. Check the official text below.

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Every vote

• 14 yes, 0 no, 2 absentHouse Business, Labor, and Commerce Committee: vote to change the bill · Feb 12, 2026Who voted how
• 14 yes, 0 no, 2 absentHouse Business, Labor, and Commerce Committee: vote to approve it · Feb 12, 2026Who voted how
• 66 yes, 1 no, 8 absentFinal House vote · Feb 20, 2026Who voted how
• 6 yes, 0 no, 1 absentSenate Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Environment Committee: vote to approve it · Feb 27, 2026Who voted how
• 25 yes, 0 no, 4 absentFinal Senate vote · Mar 6, 2026Who voted how
• 69 yes, 1 no, 5 absentHouse vote to accept the other chamber's changes · Mar 6, 2026Who voted how

Hearings and debates

• Feb 12, 2026 House Business, Labor, and Commerce Committee▶ Watch
  Transcript (54 turns)

  1. Committee chair (presiding)1:49:03

     nicotine Sales amendments Representative Dailey-Provost representative. We have one more to ask. Go. That's really good. Thank you for your patience. We sure appreciate it.

  2. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:49:14

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also appreciate your consideration for, um, helping me get through my bills in your committee this session. Um, so I just wanna thank you, uh, for the opportunity to present this bill. I do have two co-presenters today, um, who will share briefly some, um, perspective on the why and the how for house Bill 3 85 nicotine sales amendments. So, in sum, the bill does a number of things, including what I think is, um, long overdue, and that is create meaningful, um, infrastructure and regulation with real teeth on the, um, re um, rts b's retail, tobacco specialty businesses in the state of Utah. Currently, the only licensing that these, um, businesses have to pay is a $30 a year fee to the tax commission. And unfortunately, this has led to years and years of stores, um, providing easy access for children, um, to access, uh, tobacco products, but all number, any number of dangerous and addictive, um, sometimes deadly products. And this is not me saying that every player in the industry does this, but we know that it does happen. And we know that this is one of the most ready places that students are. Young people are accessing dangerous and addictive products. So the new license that is created does create, um, a larger licensing fee. And I, I do understand that the $10,000, um, fee on that probably raises some eyebrows, but I wanna give some context. I, as, as probably everybody here knows I've worked, um, as long as I've been in the legislature on our medical cannabis program, which is on another highly regulated industry. Um, licensing for a medical cannabis license in the state of Utah for a pharmacy is a hundred thousand dollars a year. License for a processing license is a hundred thousand dollars a year license for a grow license is $65,000 a year. So if you're vertically integrated in medical cannabis in the state of Utah, you pay annually $265,000 a year in a license. If you hold more than one pharmacy, you can do the math. And so it is not unprecedented for the state to recognize that highly regulated industries cost money to regulate efficiently and effectively. So this new license gives Department of Agriculture of Food, who I work closely with in a lot of areas, the ability to finally regulate not just the products in the state, but the, the places where they're sold. Um, other details include, um, requiring these licensees to provide a registration of the products that they sell, including a list of the pro, the ingredients in those products. And before I continue, I wanna make sure that everybody knows I'm speaking to the first sub, which we'll need to move. Thank you. Um, and it does, um, in working with Department of Agriculture and Food, food, we did try to carefully make sure that if it was things like potato chips or chewing yum, that they didn't have to register those products. But these are products that are, you know, tobacco products, CBD, any number of, um, products that can be found in our r TSPs. Um, in working with other legislators in our body, we also pulled in critical, um, areas, cri critical issues, where we've seen license holders register their business under A DBA or some false name, lose their license, and then turn around and file for another license under another name. So this would tie every license to a person so that if you lose your license, you would lose the ability to continue to just open license after license after license, especially when you've lost that license for, um, for cause. And then also working with, um, another representative, we wanted to make sure that we address some loopholes in advertising some tobacco and e-cigarette products that, um, that long needed to be closed because, um, I don't know if you've seen them. I've certainly have, um, some prolific advertising on billboards and in places that have access to children, um, products that they have no business being marketed to. Um, so with that, I've got two guests with me, Amber Brown from Department of Agriculture and Food, food will speak to the challenges that they face in making sure that we've got good regulation, um, in our, um, in this industry. And Chief Deputy, I'm sorry, deputy Chief Alex Garcia is here from Salt Lake City Police, um, who is representing, um, I had asked Chief Red to share some stories that he had shared with me. And I've, um, also just wanna be on the record that I've worked closely, very closely with Chief Red, who's chief of police in my city. Um, and heard, um, him reiterate on many occasions how critically needed this kind of regulation is in the state of Utah. Um, but he is actually out of town being dad today, which is wonderful. And I'm really happy for him and his son. Um, but also grateful, um, that we've got, um, chief, deputy Chief Garcia. So with that, I'll hand it to those two, and then we'll be happy to take questions.

  3. Amber Brown, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Agriculture and Food1:54:45

     Go ahead. Thanks. Uh, good afternoon. My name is, Um, there we go. I think you're on. Go ahead. Okay. My name is Amber Brown, deputy Commissioner with the Department of Agriculture and Food. And I appreciate Representative Daley Vernal running this bill and giving me the opportunity to provide some insight and context over why this is needed. So the department supports this. It's, it's very important to us for a couple of reasons. I think she's given a good, um, overview of what the bill does. But the department, we currently regulate cannabinoid products and Creon products, and we also have some regulatory authority over food products. So oftentimes we see food products or supplement products that have dangerous things added to them. And we do have some authority over those products, but we don't have the resources to get the appropriate number of inspectors out there to get dangerous products off of the shelves. And so this bill, by creating a new license for these retail tobacco specialty businesses, that allows us to be able to get to those places, the businesses and, uh, the products that are falling through the cracks right now. Um, right now, you know, we desperately need to expand our ability to inspect and to test. And some of the revenue that is raised by this bill allows us to expand the ability of our lab to test products because we see new products all the time. Things that we would never expect, like psychoactive mushrooms in chocolate and things put into honey, and all kinds of other things that could get people high that are being marketed to teens and children. And that we want, you know, to be not out there for our children to be able to access. Um, and so this allows us to be able to get to those places and to be able to test those products and make sure what is sold to the public is safe. Um, and that really summarizes, you know, why we think this is so important. It really, um, kind of closes some loopholes that need, need to be closed. And I'd be happy to answer any questions.

  4. Committee chair (presiding)1:56:40speaker not certain

     Thanks. Thank you.

  5. Alex Garcia, Deputy Chief, Salt Lake City Police Department1:56:45

     Am I live? You're live. Go ahead. Right. Thank you Chair. Thank you committee, uh, for giving me the opportunity to speak. I'd like to thank, uh, representative for heavily involving Salt Lake pd, uh, in, in this and letting, giving us a seat at the table. Uh, we are in support of this, oh, sorry. Alex Garcia, deputy Chief with Salt Lake City Police Department. Uh, this, this bill is important to us. Uh, vaping is a serious public, uh, concern, specifically with our youth. Uh, our youth are being exposed to these products even more and more frequently as days go on. And these products are, are containing, um, illegitimate substances, controlled substances. Um, the, the, uh, synthetic substances are changing daily, um, going from one to the next. And inevitably, uh, our teens may think they're doing something innocent, um, uh, with, with maybe just thinking it's just nicotine and not knowing that they're ingesting other substances, uh, which are, are causing addiction issues, uh, crime issues, uh, and, and, uh, other societal issues. Uh, one of the issues we have is that when we do come across these, these businesses that are selling these products, specifically targeting youth, is that yes, we confiscate the, the, the illegal substances or illegal products, and, uh, we arrest the individuals that are involved. And then the business turns around and pops back up again and is again, selling to our youth. Uh, this bill will help us, uh, safeguard our youth, safeguard our community when somebody is found to be doing and selling illegal controlled substances, uh, in these forms, uh, to shut them down for good and to, to not allow it, uh, to affect our youth and, and have it as easily accessible to our youth. Thank you. Thank you. Um, couple of, one other thing I wanted to mention, um, that is in the bill that I think, um, is really critical for everybody to know right now. There is, um, a loophole in the law that says, um, that people can't, so this was brought to me by the prosecutors that, um, prosecutors were not able to prosecute for underage sales because the law says that you had to knowingly sell to a minor. And so they would just not card minors and say, I didn't know that the person was underage. And so there, there is a, a fix in their, um, to, to address that as well. And I'll just finish, you know, by saying, oh, and then, oh, sorry. It, it's all coming back to me. It, it's, it's a pretty big bill and I'll, I'll recognize that this is a substance of policy to, to consider, um, one of the provisions as well as the, the, the new license that would be allow you'd DAF to regulate products, not just stores. Um, it does allow for any warrants that are executed on a business by public safety when illegal products are found. It lets them take action on their tax commission license as well as well, which they're not able to do at this time. Um, so we wanted to make sure that it was clear that that tax license does actually mean something, not just a perpetual green light to go forth and do business on, you know, unregulated and unchecked. And so we wanted to make sure that we were being really intentional about holding stores to standards that protect our kids, that if they are purport to be, um, wanting to provide products, safe legal products to adults, and I use safe as, as it's it's spectrum. Um, but as long as they're selling legal products to adults, um, doing it within the scope of the law, then there should actually be little opposition to this. The high licensing fee, and I do say high with air quotes because again, it's relative really is just a recognition that our regulatory agencies don't have the resources that are needed to make sure that we're controlling for these illegal, dangerous products that are too easily getting into the hands of children. With that, Mr. Chairman, open questions.

  6. Committee vice chair (presiding)2:01:05

     Thank you. Uh, uh, chairman Malloy has, has a question. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair.

  7. Rep. A. Cory Maloy2:01:11

     Um, so the 10, the $10,000, the high license fee, um, is it just to help fund it or is it also help resist people trying to get those multiple licenses? 'cause it's

  8. Amber Brown, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Agriculture and Food2:01:28

     So high. So, so the, the licensing fee helps with the regulation. In general, 90% of the funds would go to UDA for regulation and enforcement, and 10% of that would actually go toward, um, tobacco prevention, youth youth prevention efforts that, you know, right now are also underfunded in the state. Um,

  9. Rep. A. Cory Maloy2:01:46

     But I guess my question is, do you think it's high enough to get some of these actors to stop buying licenses so quickly and stuff? Well,

  10. Amber Brown, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Agriculture and Food2:01:55

      I think That, does it make it harder point of interest for, I, I think that it, it would certainly demonstrate who's committed to running a legitimate business. Um, but I think the biggest piece in making sure people can't just go license after license after license after being caught is tying the license to an individual's name.

  11. Rep. A. Cory Maloy2:02:14

      Yeah. And that was brought to me by one of your esteemed colleagues on this committee. Great. Uh, thank you.

  12. Unknown speaker2:02:21speaker not certain

      Um, uh, deputy Chief, uh, thank you for being here. Um, so you mentioned that, uh, they're selling to the, our youth, these, uh, vape shops or wherever they get 'em. Are they directly selling to the youth or are they selling it through someone that's old enough who then goes and sells it to the youth? Or is it both or what? I would say it is both. However, there is a, a wide market that, uh, attracts the youth and the youth or actually getting it themselves by going into these establishments. So they go in and throw their money out, and I want that. And they sell it to 'em. Correct. And that's against the law right now? It is. Okay.

  13. Unknown speaker2:03:03speaker not certain

      So, uh, representative, you mentioned that, uh, that they're doing this and, uh, they, uh, I just lost my train of thought. Sorry. Okay. I'm done. I'll Come back. I, I could actually maybe guess where he might be going with that and share a story, if that's okay.

  14. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost2:03:23

      Okay. Um, so Chief Red actually told him me a story of a vape shop in his community that his daughter told him about his high school age daughter said, dad, you know, all these kids in the high school, they all know they can go get this. So, worked with public safety, executed a warrant, went in, found illegal products, but because it doesn't, the law doesn't allow, even when illegal pro illegal products, this isn't just selling to minors, but having illegal products in the store, the law doesn't allow to take away the license when an ex, when a warrant's been executed and illegal products were found, it has, you know, it has to go through due process, which is necessary. But we've clarified what in this bill, what that due process is.

  15. Unknown speaker2:04:05speaker not certain

      Great, thank you. And, um, your bill, your bill's taking care of this, that Yes, I believe so. Okay. Okay. That's the intent.

  16. Unknown speaker2:04:13speaker not certain

      Now I remember, so you talked about carding. Yes. And they were saying, if I don't card 'em, then I don't know, Then they can't say that they knowingly sold to a minor. Are So are you addressing that in this bill? Yes.

  17. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost2:04:24speaker not certain

      And how are you doing it specifically? Oh, I can't remember what line I think that, I think the wording says it makes it negligent. Negligent. That's it. Thank you. Representative. Yeah, it was a one word change. Where's my drafting attorney when I need him?

  18. Unknown speaker2:04:37speaker not certain

      Thank you. Which one? Two 18. So, because it seems like they should just Two criminal, criminal negligence, I think is what It says. Seems like they should just be required to card everybody or something like that. But Technically they are. But if they don't, and then they, then they can say that they, That's their, that's how they try to the defendants. Yeah. And it's been hard for the prosecutors to prosecute those. Great, thank you. Appreciate the Responses. So I'm,

  19. Unknown speaker2:05:01speaker not certain

      I'm looking at, at, I have a question. Uh, if I'm looking at the fiscal note, and it's a $1.68 million fiscal note, it looks like, um, do these, uh, fees cover that?

  20. Amber Brown, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Agriculture and Food2:05:16speaker not certain

      Do you, do you know what the revenue would? So, so that's the revenue for, for the $10,000, um, licensing fee because they're 168 of these businesses registered in the state of Utah. Yeah, that was my Question. Yeah. And that's, it's, that's a negative fiscal note. So that's revenue to the department. Right.

  21. Unknown speaker2:05:32speaker not certain

      Okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah, thanks. And that, and that, is that sufficient to help your needs?

  22. Amber Brown, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Agriculture and Food2:05:38

      It's a lot better than what we have now, so we hope that it's sufficient. I mean, certainly, you know, that's a lot of money to allow us right now we have, I think, one RAUM employee and two hemp inspectors. So this would allow us to hire additional inspectors to get out to those shops and make sure that they qualify as those shops, that they have the proper licensing, that they, we know what products are being sold and we can get rid of the illegal ones.

  23. Unknown speaker2:05:59speaker not certain

      Got it. Okay. Thank you. I'm open to making it higher. If you would like to make that suggestion. I,

  24. Committee vice chair (presiding)2:06:05

      Uh, Representative Gwynn.

  25. Unknown legislator (Rep. Gwynn, not on roster)2:06:07speaker not certain

      Thank you, Mr. Vice chair. So this bill would bring it under the Specialized Products Division within Department of Ag. Um, does this bill also address, I'm sorry if I don't see it in here, but does this bill also address ability for, um, Dr. Force i's department with testing to be able to test the products that are in these smoke shops and vape shops to properly make sure that they are safe and don't have any kind of, um, other harmful chemicals or products in it?

  26. Amber Brown, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Agriculture and Food2:06:38speaker not certain

      I, if I may, Mr. Chair? I believe it does. Yes. And if I may also add representative. Thank you.

  27. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost2:06:43speaker not certain

      That was, um, a large part of the intent on where we set the licensing fee, because UF does testing really, really well, but their capacity is limited and, um, wanted to make sure that we give them the resources to do what they do well, um, on a broader scope. So that is definitely a big part of it. Thank you.

  28. Unknown legislator (Rep. Gwynn, not on roster)2:07:02speaker not certain

      One other follow question. Go ahead, if I may. Um, would this also give the resources for inspectors from the Department of Ag to go in? Would it be a partnership with law enforcement to go in to these, uh, businesses and inspect and do the searches?

  29. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost2:07:20

      So I think that historically, and I'll let both of my guests, um, speak to this if I misspeak, or even if they wanted to add anything to it. Historically, law enforcement and UAF have worked very well together when necessary. So it's important to remember that, um, the, the license, the U DAF licensing, and we're call it, I don't, I guess uaf, the specialized license, specialized product license, which is the new license created in the bill, um, is intended to give u DAF the resources to test. But it also, like I mentioned, it also requires the RTBs to register the products that they sell. And so if they're selling a product that's not registered, UAF has the ability to give them a warning and then on repeated offenses to issue the, I mean, they could have up to, you know, losing their license for a period of time, a time restricted license that escalates on repeated, um, offenses. And I think they have to like, mess up five or six times before they would lose their license permanently. On the criminal side, this allows, again, when a warrant is executed, if an illegal product is found. So whether, whether it was a registered product or not, 'cause they're probably not gonna register illegal products, I would think, but when illegal products are found that are clearly controlled substances that they, that don't, they cannot legally sell, then on the public safety side, then public safety has an opportunity to make sure there is that due process mechanism. But now the tax license, the tax commission license would be at risk as well.

  30. Unknown speaker2:08:58speaker not certain

      Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah. Thank you.

  31. Committee chair (presiding)2:09:02

      Here, there are no more other questions from the committee. Um, who here would, and would like to speak this in public comment? Looks like we have 1, 2, 3, 4. Nice. Raise 'em all again. I just wanna make sure I got 'em all at the camp. Thank you. 1, 2, 3, 4. Okay. Do we have any on the line? All right, we're gonna go a minute and a half, uh, if that's okay. Respect Lee. I'll, I'll need more. There's some things you need to hear. We'll give you a minute and 45 seconds. Go. Go ahead.

  32. Beau Maxon, vice chair, Utah Vapor Business Association2:09:31

      My name's Bo Maxon. I've been the vice chair of the UVBA for almost a decade. In that time, I've asked to meet with the representative. She has never met with me. That should be a red flag. Anita. Set something straight. There's not a single product that a retail tobacco specialty business sells that a gas station cannot. You took that away with Senate Bill 61 representative, you and Senator Plumb. I share that with you. Be court reporter. Uh, you're, you're gonna talk to the chairman, please. Okay. And not to the representative. Okay. If you have a comment, give us your comment. Okay. And then, but don't, don't be going that direction. Okay. Well, it's the reality. And the reality is this, gentlemen, to try to implement a $10,000 permit fee on a retail tobacco specialty business. Guys, no, this is important. We're gonna ask you to leave at this point because you're not showing this committee or the representative the respect that we need in or the decor in this No, it's relevant. So I'm gonna ask you to leave right now. It's, it's relevant. I own a tier one medical Cannabis processing facility. I know what the fees are for a permit. It's outlandish. Oh, sir. Could you help us out permit? And it, it also needs to be stated. There is an individual working with Department of Agriculture and Salt Lake City pd. They are duping samples. I have the text messages showing it. It is real corrupt individuals. It'll come to life. The grandma requests are already out. The subpoenas will come, it'll come to life.

  33. Committee chair (presiding)2:11:23

      Sorry about that representative. Go ahead. Thank you. Alright. Uh, Mr. Plum, go, go ahead. Or, sorry. Over here on this side,

  34. Art Brown, member, State Youth Committee2:11:32

      Uh, art Brown, I serve on the youth committee, um, the state youth committee. And, uh, I just wanted to speak briefly to, and I've been following these search warrants that we go into these tac these uh, shops and, um, what really is in the products. I just wanted to just share with you a recent return. So you get an idea of what illegal products that are being seized, where these youth are going in. And this is from a recent warrant. And then I'll quit. 95 synthetic urine kits, 555 flavored e-cigarettes, 25 THC edibles packs, three hundred and seventy nine seven hydroxy tablet packs, 29 mushroom eligible packs. Those are in the controlled substance arena. And that's why we're concerned that we have the ability, these people who they take out are opening up the shop next day, next week in the same place. And that's why the revocation stuff needs to be in there. 'cause we don't have the resource to trace the same people all over the state, uh, trying to, uh, reel in these illegal products that are available to the kids. Thank you.

  35. Committee chair (presiding)2:12:53

      Thank you. Thanks. Alright. Over here. Go ahead and introduce yourself.

  36. Walter Plumb, President, Drug Safe Utah2:12:57

      Uh, Mr. Chairman, my name is, uh, Walter Plum. I'm the President of Drug Safe Utah. About eight years ago, uh, Kim Gardner and I of Gardner Policy Institute were approached by two groups to help with fund and actively participate in protecting youth in our state from addictive substances. And the good news is, according to the Sharp Report and all the help from the legislators and educators and everyone else in the state of Utah, were actually improving in, um, marijuana, uh, nicotine and, uh, other products from 2023 till today, which is positive. Just a brief note on nicotine, nicotine can disrupt the development of the, um, till brain developed till about 25. It affects areas of attention learning and impulse control. It has an increased addiction risk and worsening mental health. Nicotine connect exacerbate issues like anxiety and depression leading to mood swings, which is kids have enough of that in our state. Thank you for all your help. We're greatly in favor of this bill. Thank you.

  37. Committee chair (presiding)2:14:18

      And thank you Mr. Plum. Go ahead.

  38. Gayle Ruzicka, President, Utah Eagle Forum2:14:24

      Gal Rika with Utah Eagle Farm, and, uh, pretty much everything I was gonna say has been said, but this is something that we really care about and that's protecting the children. And it is just astounding to me how the young children in this state have been able to get ahold of these products, uh, even down in the age of, of, you know, like the fifth and sixth grade. And to have a way to actually, um, have, you know, have a control over. And so they can, the enforcement, I guess that's what I'm trying to say they have, so that the police have the enforcement that they need to have. And I think this fill in a lot of gaps that we've been working with over the past year that just didn't exist. And the biggest reason we've always, when we ask questions is the problem has been enforcement. So if this would help and we could get this, these products away from the kids, that would be wonderful. So please vote. Yes.

  39. Committee chair (presiding)2:15:18

      Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Uh, do we have any on the line? Okay, we're gonna, uh, end our public comment and, uh, bring it back to the Committee for action. Uh, a lot of lights here. Let's go. Uh, Representative Sawyer.

  40. Rep. Jake Sawyer2:15:40

      Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I move, we favorably recommend HB 3 85. We need to move the first time, or sorry. Thank you. Actually take that back. I move that we adopt sub one.

  41. Committee chair (presiding)2:15:54

      Okay. That, that's an order like to speak to that. No, thank you. Okay. To the sponsor.

  42. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost2:15:59speaker not certain

      It's a really important sub. Thank you.

  43. Committee chair (presiding)2:16:01

      Okay. And the committee, if your lights on, speak to it. Representative Dunnigan, I have a, a question for the bill sponsor.

  44. Rep. James A. Dunnigan2:16:09

      Would you address a comment that gas stations are not being having the same level of enforcement or focus on them that you can get all this stuff in a gas station? Uh,

  45. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost2:16:20

      Uh, well, I, my understanding, um, representative is that is not the case. And it's also my understanding that this is not where kids are getting access to these products. And that's, I, they're the number and, you know, I mean, maybe we can invite, um, Salt Lake City Police back up, but they, the number of times that warrants are executed and highly dangerous, scheduled illegal substances are found in the RTBs. Um, is, is one of the primary problems that we need to address. Um, I honestly can't speak

  46. Rep. James A. Dunnigan2:17:00

      To. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ask that question of the deputy Chief. Thank you. Do you do any enforcement in the gas stations? And how would you, if so, how would you contrast that with the, these smoke shops?

  47. Alex Garcia, Deputy Chief, Salt Lake City Police Department2:17:10

      As far as enforcement goes in the gas stations that would come on any sort of intelligence or any sort of complaint that we're getting, that something illegal is being sold at those gas stations. Um, there is so much out there to do that we, we wouldn't be able to focus specifically on gas stations. The vast majority of our complaints, excuse me, and concerns that are coming in, are coming from these vape type specialty shops where the kids are gaining access to those shops. Uh, one was, uh, and I, without going into any detail, that there was access through a back door that these kids knew about, that they were going into to get served, uh, these products. So, uh, it, it isn't, we would take the same action with a gas station if we were getting actual action, actionable intelligence stating that these types of products were being sold in gas stations. Okay.

  48. Committee chair (presiding)2:18:04

      Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Alright. Um, doesn't appear there are any other, okay. So we have gone to the committee. We'll go back to the sponsor. Um, is there a motion, I don't think there was a Motion made. A motion to adopt the substitute.

  49. Unknown speaker2:18:20speaker not certain

      Oh yes. The sub definitely needs to be adopted. Thank you.

  50. Committee chair (presiding)2:18:23

      Okay. And then to the maker of the motion. Okay. The motions, the motion is that we adopt the first substitute of HB 3 85 Nicotine sales amendments. All in favor say Aye. Aye. And those against roll, that passes unanimously. We'll take it back to the committee for further action. Representative Ivory.

  51. Rep. Ken Ivory2:18:48

      Sure. I'll make the motion that we pass out house bill first substitute house bill 3 85 with a favorable recommendation. Would you like to speak to that? Just appreciate the hard work of the sponsor and, uh, protect kids. Thank

  52. Committee chair (presiding)2:19:04

      You. Okay. And to the sponsor,

  53. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost2:19:06

      I, I really appreciate the motion and I, I just wanna be on record. I know that this is not a silver bullet. There isn't one in this area, but, um, meaningful regulation to make sure that bad actors are accountable and good actors are allowed to continue to do business as long as we're doing the state. And I, I really think that we can, we can turn the tide on these, you know, some significant issues with children getting access to addictive dangerous substances. And I would really appreciate the committee's support. Thank you.

  54. Committee chair (presiding)2:19:35

      Thank you. And we'll take it to the committee and I don't see any lights. And then, uh, back to the sponsor. I'll wait and then to the, uh, to the maker of the motion. Okay. It's been waived. Um, the motion is that we recommend favorably House Bill 3 85 nicotine sales Amendments, uh, at, at first substitute. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. And those against roll that pass the unanimously Thank you representative. You, you might get invited to Do this. Okay. We'll go to, uh, agenda item number four, real real estate amendments. Uh, Neil Wal, Representative Walter. Representative Walter here, he does not appear to be here, so I guess we'll go to a senator here. Alright, we'll go. Yeah. Since yeah, we'll go to, uh, agenda item number six, uh,

• Feb 20, 2026 House floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (18 turns)

  1. Unknown speaker1:12:02

     For substitute house Bill 3 85, nicotine Sales Amendments by Representative Daley Provo. This bill was heard in business and labor with a vote of 14 0 2.

  2. Speaker (presiding)1:12:12

     Representative Daley Provo.

  3. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:12:14

     Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, um, am excited to, uh, present house Bill 3 85, which I believe is a bill that is long overdue here in the state of Utah. Um, the bill creates, uh, a license that does not currently exist in the reg that provides regulation and oversight of specialty tobacco shops in the state of Utah. Um, given the fact that these, uh, stores tend to be very expensive to regulate, um, due to the nature of the products that are sold, we need to make sure that the Department of Agriculture and Food has the resources that they need to make sure that all products are legal and safe in these stores. Uh, the bill also, um, puts guardrails around things like illegally advertising nicotine products on, on, uh, billboards, which, um, there is a loophole in the statute that we need to close as far as, uh, advertising nicotine products because we know that that creates too much exposure for children in our state. Uh, this also puts guardrails around the fact that, um, the tax license, the, the licensing mechanism with this Utah Tax Commission, um, can be revoked if law enforcement finds illegal products in these states after a warrant has been executed. Unfortunately, right now, even when illegal products are found in stores, um, law enforcement has limited ability to make sure that the, those stores stop selling illegal products and also clarifies that if a license holder loses a license for any reason, they cannot just, um, create a new DBA. The these licenses are tied to individuals, um, that cannot just perpetually file for new licenses and perpetually open stores that are, um, practicing with unsavory business practices. I want to be clear that this just aims to get to the fact that there are a handful of businesses that need more careful regulation because of some transgressions, but recognize that most of these businesses are well operating well within the law, and we just wanna make sure that, um, we give them reason to continue to do so. With that open, I'm open to questions.

  4. Speaker (presiding)1:14:35

     Thank you, representative Daley Provo, discussion to the bill Representative MacPherson.

  5. Rep. Matt MacPherson1:14:41

     Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, I'd like to move the second substitute.

  6. Speaker (presiding)1:14:46

     Thank you, Representative MacPherson. That motion is an order. Would like speak to it?

  7. Rep. Matt MacPherson1:14:50

     Yes, I would. Um, so the underlying bill seeks to, um, generate a, a significant amount of revenue so that we can provide funding for enforcement of this. It's tied specifically right now to the retail, uh, tobacco specialty, uh, businesses, um, that is a very small subset of all of the, of the, um, retailers that sell these products. And so what this bill essentially does is it expands, um, the, uh, the fee and the regulatory structure to any business, any retailer that sells any of these products. Um, it lowers the entire, uh, uh, the individual fee on each, uh, business in this category. Um, but it makes it flat across all retailers in order to generate, uh, the similar amount of money so that the enforcement is a little bit more, um, that the, the dollars tied the enforcement is, is a little bit more, uh, stable. Um, but otherwise it contains all the, uh, existing re regulatory structure and the remaining parts of the bill.

  8. Speaker (presiding)1:15:57

     Thank you, Representative MacPherson. Representative Dailey Provo on the motion to adopt, second substitute on HB 3 85 under Representative McPherson's name.

  9. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:16:06

     Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a friendly sub and I am really, really grateful to this sponsor, um, for doing the hard work and recognizing that the underlying bill, um, has some, some structural, um, concerns and that this certainly creates, um, dramatically less volatility. In making sure that our department has the regulatory authority and, and resources that they need. And I am really grateful for the opportunity to collaborate with him on this sub.

  10. Speaker (presiding)1:16:36

      Thank you, representative Dailey Provo, uh, discussion to the Motion to Adopt second substitute on HB 3 85 under Representative McPherson's. Name Representative Clancy,

  11. Rep. Clancy (not on roster)1:16:50

      You. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor of the underlying bill yield to one question?

  12. Speaker (presiding)1:16:55

      Representative Daley Provo, will you yield to a question? Just the one? Yes. Representative Clancy.

  13. Rep. Clancy (not on roster)1:17:00

      Uh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Under the current law would a nicotine pouch company be able to advertise to individuals, uh, individuals in Utah on a billboard?

  14. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:17:10

      Thank you, Mr. Speaker, under this law that would fix that loophole that currently exists in the law and is actually the primary motivation for that change.

  15. Speaker (presiding)1:17:19

      Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Klein. See further discussion to the motion to adopt Second substitute. See none back to your Representative.

  16. Speaker (presiding)1:17:30

      MacPherson I'll waive Estimation has been waived. We'll go ahead and place that motion. The motion before us is the House adopt second substitute HB 3 85 under Representative McPherson's name. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Will that motion passes. The bill has been substituted is before the body for its consideration. See none. Uh, back to your absent daily Provo for summation.

  17. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:17:58

      Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think this has been, um, a conversation that's been happening for a long time, and I believe it is a responsible and thoughtful iteration of making sure that we have well regulated places where adults can buy legal products that are considered, um, not, not appropriate for sale in the general public. And certainly our should only be available for adults. But we just wanna make sure that, um, given those adult choices, we, um, have every ability to regulate and make sure that illegal pre products stay off the shelf and that there are safe places to, for peop adults to make decisions about where they buy their products and we can strive toward a healthier future. Thank you.

  18. Speaker (presiding)1:18:45

      Thank you. Representative Daley Provo Voting will now be open on second substitute HP 3 85. Representative Cutler seeing all present, having voted voting will be closed. Second substitute house bill 3 85, having received 66 yay votes and one nay votes passes the house and will be transmitted to the Senate for further consideration matter. Meeting Clerk

• Feb 20, 2026 House floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (13 turns)

  1. Rep. Matt MacPherson1:14:41

     Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, I'd like to move the second substitute.

  2. Speaker (presiding)1:14:46

     Thank you, Representative MacPherson. That motion is an order. Would like speak to it?

  3. Rep. Matt MacPherson1:14:50

     Yes, I would. Um, so the underlying bill seeks to, um, generate a, a significant amount of revenue so that we can provide funding for enforcement of this. It's tied specifically right now to the retail, uh, tobacco specialty, uh, businesses, um, that is a very small subset of all of the, of the, um, retailers that sell these products. And so what this bill essentially does is it expands, um, the, uh, the fee and the regulatory structure to any business, any retailer that sells any of these products. Um, it lowers the entire, uh, uh, the individual fee on each, uh, business in this category. Um, but it makes it flat across all retailers in order to generate, uh, the similar amount of money so that the enforcement is a little bit more, um, that the, the dollars tied the enforcement is, is a little bit more, uh, stable. Um, but otherwise it contains all the, uh, existing re regulatory structure and the remaining parts of the bill.

  4. Speaker (presiding)1:15:57

     Thank you, Representative MacPherson. Representative Dailey Provo on the motion to adopt, second substitute on HB 3 85 under Representative McPherson's name.

  5. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:16:06

     Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a friendly sub and I am really, really grateful to this sponsor, um, for doing the hard work and recognizing that the underlying bill, um, has some, some structural, um, concerns and that this certainly creates, um, dramatically less volatility. In making sure that our department has the regulatory authority and, and resources that they need. And I am really grateful for the opportunity to collaborate with him on this sub.

  6. Speaker (presiding)1:16:36

     Thank you, representative Dailey Provo, uh, discussion to the Motion to Adopt second substitute on HB 3 85 under Representative McPherson's. Name Representative Clancy,

  7. Rep. Clancy (not on roster)1:16:50

     You. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor of the underlying bill yield to one question?

  8. Speaker (presiding)1:16:55

     Representative Daley Provo, will you yield to a question? Just the one? Yes. Representative Clancy.

  9. Rep. Clancy (not on roster)1:17:00

     Uh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Under the current law would a nicotine pouch company be able to advertise to individuals, uh, individuals in Utah on a billboard?

  10. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:17:10

      Thank you, Mr. Speaker, under this law that would fix that loophole that currently exists in the law and is actually the primary motivation for that change.

  11. Speaker (presiding)1:17:19

      Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Representative Klein. See further discussion to the motion to adopt Second substitute. See none back to your Representative. MacPherson I'll waive Estimation has been waived. We'll go ahead and place that motion. The motion before us is the House adopt second substitute HB 3 85 under Representative McPherson's name. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Will that motion passes. The bill has been substituted is before the body for its consideration. See none. Uh, back to your absent daily Provo for summation.

  12. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:17:58

      Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think this has been, um, a conversation that's been happening for a long time, and I believe it is a responsible and thoughtful iteration of making sure that we have well regulated places where adults can buy legal products that are considered, um, not, not appropriate for sale in the general public. And certainly our should only be available for adults. But we just wanna make sure that, um, given those adult choices, we, um, have every ability to regulate and make sure that illegal pre products stay off the shelf and that there are safe places to, for peop adults to make decisions about where they buy their products and we can strive toward a healthier future. Thank you.

  13. Speaker (presiding)1:18:45

      Thank you. Representative Daley Provo Voting will now be open on second substitute HP 3 85. Representative Cutler seeing all present, having voted voting will be closed. Second substitute house bill 3 85, having received 66 yay votes and one nay votes passes the house and will be transmitted to the Senate for further consideration matter. Meeting Clerk

• Feb 27, 2026 Senate Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Environment Committee▶ Watch
  Transcript (38 turns)

  1. Committee chair59:32

     Next item on the agenda. Item four is House Bill 3 85. Second substitute specialized product sales amendments. Welcome representative. Time is yours.

  2. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost59:46

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've got a couple of co-presenters if that's okay. Um, I've got a deputy chief from Salt Lake City Police and, um, representatives from Depart Department of Agriculture and Food. Um, but I'll, I'll give a brief introduction if I may. Um, so I know you've heard a lot about this bill. Um, specialized product Sales Amendments is an effort to recognize that, um, sales of tobacco and specialty products in the state is woefully unregulated. And our state statute has very little opportunity to give teeth in the law to our regulatory agencies, and particularly in the context of a lot of legislation. I know that we've, we've had a lot of long conversations in many, um, areas about crate, uh, legislation associated with cre. And this is one of the reasons that this bill is so important because the, the legislation to get, um, some safety regulations around Kratom in the state depends on having a safe place to sell those products that, um, that may very well be legal going forward. And, and I've got, um, legislation dealing with Kratom that does allow for a legal pathway for some products. And absent, um, good regulation, ensuring a safe regulated retail space, um, without this bill, we can't ensure that with regard to creto. Now, it's not just creto, this is tobacco products, vaping products, CBD, um, anything that falls within the specialized products division at Utah Department of Agriculture and Food. So we do in statute task UDAF with, um, regulating tobacco spaces, especially retail specialty shops, but they don't have resources to do that. And so creating this new license, um, right now in the, in the second sub, which is what we are considering right now, um, this implements a new license that is a $600 a year, um, fee to cover the cost for U DAF to, uh, to cover that regulation. It does require registration of products so that U DAF can ensure that the things that are on, on the shelves in stores are safe and legal products, and that, um, people don't have access to untested dangerous products. And we're seeing a, a dramatic proliferation of products for sale in brick and mortar stores in our, in our state, that have no business being available to anybody, especially children. And that's one of the other issues with regard to regulation. Now, the way that the current licensing structure exists and has, for as long as I've been working in this space, and it's been 15 years, um, eight years as a legislator, and seven years prior to that as a policy advocate, um, the most that we've ever charged for licensing fees for any of these stores is $15 a year. Just 15. You didn't miss 1 5 1 $5 per year. And that is a licensing fee that is charged at, um, by the, uh, tax commission. So the, so these businesses do have a tax commission license. Um, I do recognize, and I acknowledge frustration that this creates a new license and a new fee with a different agency. So this is a Department of Agriculture and food. So I wanna be clear, um, Salt Lake City Police will address this. The tax portion, tax licensing portion has to do with licensing and selling legal products. And so Senator Plumb has a bill that changes the licensing fee at the tax commission. And her licensing fee helps to cover things like, um, disposable hazard disposal of hazardous waste. Because right now, users who use nicotine products do not pay for the waste for those products. And they're hazardous, especially the electronic pieces because you've got a battery and you've got the actual nicotine or CBD product that is itself hazardous. They have to be separated, they have to be disposed of, and the state doesn't have resources to pay for that. Oftentimes we ask schools to dispose of, have when they, you know, when they take these products from kids, we ask them to dispose of those, and they don't have resources. And so I acknowledge that, you know, the increase of the tax license is an issue. Um, and I, I don't dismiss that in any way, shape, or form and that, but this new license with Department of Agriculture and food is not about the legal requirements and the ability of public safety to execute warrants for the sales of illegal products. This other piece is just making sure that their safety protocol and testing to make sure that the products that are legally sold are actually what they're saying they're going to sell. Um, so when you do the math, um, it does, if you, if if both of these both Senator Plums Bill and my bill were to pass, um, I think number one, we would have good comprehensive regulation around an industry that, um, unfortunately has some bad players and the good players suffer for it. And I, that is unfortunate, excuse me, but the total of 700, I'm sorry, $850 a month between the, the new, um, assessments total of $70 a month, um, in, in additional costs for these businesses. And that's not nothing. But, you know, I, I do wanna point out that in the state of Utah, so the, the way that we came up with the fiscal note for this bill, um, what the reason we landed on $600 a year was to recognizing how much u DAF would need to do the regulation divided by the licensee, the, the current license holders in the state of Utah. The, the, the guess was between 26 50 and 2,700 businesses. Um, and so, you know, if you, if you es the estimated sales in Utah, I'm just trying to add some perspective on the cost. Total sales of just tobacco in the state of Utah is some is expected to, it's somewhere between 470 and $530 million a year. Um, and I know that there are different size stores, there are smaller stores and larger stores, and I, again, I am not trying to be dismissive of the extra cost, but I don't think that this is an unreasonable cost. I think this is a long delight, delayed right sizing of what it costs the state to regulate, to appropriately regulate this products, but also recognizing that as citizens, we all bear the cost of tobacco use. We all, we bear at that cost in lower productivity for people who are sick because they use, um, you know, they use tobacco, um, for the, he the extra healthcare costs that we all pay in our insurance premiums for the bad health associated with smoking. Um, and so, again, I I'll just reiterate a final time. I'm not dismissive of the concerns about how dramatic the, the increase is, but it's, it's also, it should be recognized that an increase from $15 a year per store to a possible 800 5600 in this bill, and, and depending on Senator Plump's, um, progress on her bill, um, is not an unreasonable cost of business to make sure that we're keeping products safe. Um, so that's, um, the, in the introduction to the bill, you know, especially in context of the changing landscape and how, how quickly products themselves change. And, you know, UAF can certainly speak to how difficult it is just to keep up with the science of, you know, enterprising individuals who don't necessarily have the health of their end users at heart. Um, so with that, I'll, I'll hand it off to my co-presenters and then Mr. Chair would be happy to take questions.

  3. Committee chair1:07:30

     Great. Thank you. Thank You. Welcome officer. Thank you.

  4. Alex Garcia, Deputy Chief, Salt Lake City Police Department1:07:33

     Alex Garcia, deputy Chief Salt Lake City Police Department. Um, thank you chair, thank you committee for giving me the opportunity. I'd like to thank the bill sponsor for, for pushing this legislation forward. Um, thi this is a bill that, uh, helps us from a law enforcement standpoint, uh, to help keep these products out of the hands of, of minors, right? Um, a lot of these individuals, minors specifically, that choose to dabble in these products are a lot of the times under the impression that they are nicotine vapes or that it, it's just nicotine. Um, a lot of these products that we are seizing in search warrants of these specialty, uh, shops are containing illicit substances, uh, illegal controlled substances. And, uh, like the, the representative mentioned, um, the science behind this, the, the, the, the chemistry, the chemical makeup of these, uh, substances is, is constantly changing, um, changing to the point of even to, to where we're having to see legislation change to add different chemicals to, to, uh, the controlled substance Act. So, um, this is readily available for our, to our youth. Uh, there are multiple instances of where we get a lot of our information when we end up going in and building cases and serving search warrants as to where these, these miners know the places to go. They know the retail outlets, uh, and these stores that are selling these products. Um, one instance, we had individuals that they, they knew they could go in the back door and they would be served. Uh, and another instance in a serving a search warrant, uh, when the SWAT team was done conducting their, their, um, operation, um, community members were standing out clapping, that that's how big of a problem that it was, is that they, that they knew that the youth were getting these and we're getting the intel information from our, our community that they're aware that it, that this is happening and that their children are the ones that are getting access to these, these, uh, dangerous products. Uh, so we just appreciate, uh, and, and support, uh, a great representative in moving this bill forward, uh, and helping us keep our children safe in our communities.

  5. Committee chair1:09:49

     Great. Thank you, officer. Thank you for your service. Next witness, uh, here, co-presenter. Welcome, doctor.

  6. Dr. Brandon Forsyth, Director, Specialized Products Division, Utah Department of Agriculture and Food1:09:58

     Thank you. I'm Dr. Brandon Forsyth, director of the Specialized Products Division at the Utah Department of Agriculture and Food. This last year, I've gone out in the field with our inspectors on a number of occasions, sometimes for rates, but sometimes just to go on inspections of the facilities that sell the products that we regulate. We specifically changed the name of our division this past year to specialized products, rather than calling it just the hemp products because it's a much bigger market than that in Utah. It's not just hemp. We saw Kratom come on in a big way these last few years with products that were very concerning. And we see other types of products, um, mad honey and I don't know, mushroom products, all kinds of things that are advertised as drugs to our youth. And we're seeing them available in all types of shops. It's not just vape shops or tobacco specialty tobacco shops that you're gonna find these things. They can be found in, uh, gas station, in specialty stores, in the malls. They're all over the place, and we need the tools to fight this. So we really appreciate this legislation and the consider the consideration of the legislature in giving us the tools we need to do that. You've heard that these are, you know, very unique chemistry in these products, and it's absolutely true. As soon as you get a product that is regulated, these people that are pushing them come online with some different compound and throw it in the same type of product and push it out. Sometimes they lie about what's in the products. Quite frequently actually, we find vapes that are supposedly a mushroom vape, and we take it back to our lab and we test it, and it's got Delta eight THC in it. Nowhere on the label does it say it had THC. This is a dangerous thing, not just because it's Delta eight, but because somebody is unknowingly putting a substance in their body. And when they go to the emergency room, they tell the doctor what they took, but that's not really what's in their system. They could get treated completely inappropriately for the substance that they took. This is a real problem that is affecting our use, and we need to make some changes now to prevent any harm from coming to our use, but not just our use to our citizens in general. So I, I'd ask that you please, uh, pass out this bill.

  7. Committee chair1:12:25

     Thanks. Thank you, representative.

  8. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:12:28

     Thank you. Um, Mr. Chair, I, uh, I think that I'm not sure that I have much more to add. I, I know that there's gonna be a lot of discussion about, um, you know, and debate about the best way, um, to fund this program. And if you'll, if you'll look at the legislation, you'll see that the original bill did have an assessment only for the rts bs. That's the retail tobacco specialty businesses at $10,000. Now, um, I know that there is support in the room to go back to that. The reason I just wanna offer, you know, some insight on why the change was made, that was a compromise that was made with my colleagues on the house floor, recognizing that if you have 168 businesses with do paying a $10,000 a year, a year licensing fee, that's very volatile. Especially if, you know, if, if our assumptions are that there are some bad actors in out in the world, and we know there are the law, you know, the closure of for, for illegal activity, if they're operating illegally, they, you know, we assume that we will finally figure that out. They will close that de that does decrease, um, the amount of resources that UAF would then have to operate. Um, and so this seemed like a more thoughtful, reasonable way to make sure that everybody who's making money on tobacco products and not really paying for the social cost of that is, is sharing the cost of the regulation of that. And that was, that was a thoughtful debate and a decision that was ba made by my colleagues on the house floor, and was a sub presented by one of my colleagues that, um, you know, at first I opposed it, but we had a conversation. He convinced me that it was the more thoughtful, measured way to proceed, um, with the policy. And that's how we landed on where we're at today. With that, I'm, I would conclude my presentation. Thanks.

  9. Committee chair1:14:18

     Great. Thank you for your work on this representative. I know you've spent a lot of time in this space. Let me bring it to the committee for any clarifying questions. We're the sponsor Senator Stevenson?

  10. Sen. Jerry W. Stevenson1:14:31

      Yeah, just to comment, you know, I find it interesting. Uh, I look at what I've, what I've done for a living over the years. I sold a, I've sold a lot of insecticides, you know, uh, nicotine was a fairly popular insecticide up through the forties and fifties. Mm-hmm. Used it in kelp flies and barns and delos things. And, uh, and so now we've, we've taken it off the market. You can't buy it now as a, for as far as an insecticide is concerned, I guess we've, we've, uh, moved it to where we can just put it in a pouch and tuck it in our cheek. And I haven't figured that out yet, how that makes sense. Um, but, uh, in fact, I have, I don't know why it killed the bugs, but I know it did a pretty good job while we were working with it. So, I, I, these kind of, these kind of bills, I think are really, uh, excellent force to be working with. And I think we need to pass them and then figure out a way to fund them if we have to. Even if we have to wait 'em for a funding mechanism. Uh, this, this stuff's pretty toxic, uh, and I really like mushrooms, but I generally prefer it on steak or chicken or something like that. So,

  11. Committee chair1:15:44

      Thank you, Senator. Senator. Thank you. Senator Algo. Senator Hinkins public hearing. Okay.

  12. Committee chair1:15:51

      Not seeing any, uh, discussion or questions from the committee. So I'll open it to the public who has come to speak to this bill. Raise your hand so I can know how many, okay. I am gonna, uh, change the time or two, a minute and a half instead of a minute. I don't wanna cut too, too short, so please make your way to the front row if you would. Those who wanna speak to this. And we'll start with you.

  13. Dave Davis, President, Utah Retail Merchants1:16:13

      Mr. Davis. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Dave Davis, president of the Utah Retail Merchants in, uh, Utah Food Industry. We represent the convenience stores that are out there. We don't represent the retail tobacco de tobacco specialty shops. Um, we're opposed to the bill as it is currently in its current form. We were perfectly fine with the original bill that was in place. Again, the fees have been talked about. If this is put in place, it would be a 5500% increase in fees we negotiated all summer long with, and some of the folks that are in the room here were there as well, with an increase to this, to these fees, which is in Senator Plums bill to take those up to, to address some of these costs. And then all of the sudden we have another $600 fee that is dropped on top of us. This would require dual licensing, a massive increase in, in fees, and we feel like, look in good faith, we agreed to a 1500% increase in, in fees. And now this is just being dropped on us at the last second. Dr. Forsyth talked about all these specialized products. This includes tobacco. So if you're just a straight tobacco retailer, they're asking for us to pay for regulation of products that we're not even likely to be able to sell.

  14. Committee chair1:17:55

      Thank you, Mr. Davis. So we, we inv we invite you to sub back to the first, to the original sub or vote no on the bill. Thank you for your testimony. Next witness, sir.

  15. Walter Plumb, Drug Safe Utah1:18:08

      Walter Plum, drug safe, Utah. We've been involved in the teen protection business in Utah for several years, uh, against, uh, drugs that are, uh, adverse to teenagers. We really support this bill. Dr. Foresight knows exactly what we've done. We've had a lot of meetings with him. He knows how to regulate this. And there isn't almost a week that goes by that I don't get a call from somebody. Walter, have you been over to this place or that place? You can't believe what they're selling. This stuff needs to be regulated, and the best way to do it is the bill that you have before you the second substitute, 3 85, and like to thank the sponsor, uh, uh, Dr. Provost for what she's, uh, come up with here. It's wonderful. Thank you.

  16. Committee chair1:18:57

      Thank you. Thank you for your testimony.

  17. Art Brown1:18:59

      Next witness, sir. Art Brown. I wanna just speak to the, uh, last part of this bill. The, uh, revocation. As we've worked with law enforcement agencies over the last year, they have, uh, found that these, um, criminal operators can move from, uh, their, uh, tobacco license. Uh, they can, uh, put 'em out of business for the day, uh, and they're back in business the next day or the next week. And, uh, because there's no revocation in the code, we cannot shut them down, and we just can't continue to move our, um, law enforcement assets from place to place chasing the same people all over this county. And I would recommend that we really, uh, vote this bill out favorably because law enforcement really needs the ability when you move controlled substances to our kids. We need deliberately from CRI criminal organizations, we need the ability to, uh, go to the tax mission and, uh, revoke their license the first time. So thank you very much. Thank you, sir.

  18. Committee chair1:20:03

      Could you tell us, uh, if you represent a group or we just, you're speaking for yourself.

  19. Art Brown1:20:08

      I'm speaking for myself. Thank you very much.

  20. Committee chair1:20:11

      Just need to make that for the record. Welcome. Zika with Utah Eagle Farm.

  21. Gayle Ruzicka, President, Utah Eagle Forum1:20:16

      I find it is actually unbelievable where we are today with all these different products. I was just reading this afternoon before I came here about some other products. And, and you know, just in the last year we learned about Krato and it, these things have to be registered. They, they have to be, uh, we have to know what they, what they're buying. The the kids don't know what they're getting into, and I don't, and, and it just keeps happening. And something else is there to replace something else. I remember when we started talking about vaping and how, oh gee, vaping is wonderful because those quit smoking if they vape. Well, it turned out that was not true at all. It's horrible. And the children are addicted and these other products that, that the children are walking into the convenience stores and purchasing, please vote for this bill just to protect the children. Thank you.

  22. Committee chair1:21:06

      Thank you. Welcome, next witness.

  23. Gary Thorup, Utah Petroleum Marketers and Retailers Association1:21:11

      Um, excuse me, Mr. Chair? Yes. I'm Gary Thorpe. I'm here representing the Utah Petroleum Marketers and Retailers Association. Um, I apologize to Representative Daley Provo for not being able to really have a detailed discussion with her prior to this afternoon. Um, I would describe our board as being thoughtful and deliberative and maybe slow, uh, in making decisions. But, uh, we did support, uh, Representative Dailey-Provost Crate Bill, and we were neutral on the original Bill 3 85. Uh, but here we have a substitute bill that occurred on the floor of the house, uh, that we cannot abide by. If you'll recall, several years ago, Senator Vickers created a scheme whereby we separated specialty tobacco stores and regular tobacco stores, uh, retailers. And this seems to blur and blend the lines. We've created a third category that the non-specialty stores now seem to fall in. That's the specialized product retailer, which is a third and different kind of category. The specialty stores are regulated by the health department in addition to the tax commission. If I could just finish, um, and we now have maybe some overlapping regulations. Uh, the health Department has proximity rules that apply. We don't know now whether we fall into those categories or not. So we think that we've blurred the lines and we ask you to return to the original 3 85 and, uh, strip out the provisions of the second substitute.

  24. Committee chair1:22:52

      Thank you for your testimony.

  25. Justin Ariola1:22:57

      Hi, my name is Justin Areola. I, um, I'm here representing myself. Um, and I'm just here to, uh, speak to the licensing fees for the last, um, couple of, of testimony that we've got. Um, in our, I work in the, uh, highly regulated cannabis space. I'm one of the license holders here in the state. And, uh, my yearly fee to, um, take part of that industry is $100,000 a year in a market. That's 1% of what these retailers are, are currently playing in. So, um, it feels kind of disingenuous to, to hear somebody complain about a $600 licensing fee in a market that's almost a half a billion dollars. Um, it doesn't seem like that's, that's really a, a, a representative, um, complaint. And so, um, you know, I, I do speak to support in this bill. We, we support regulating products for children, um, and, and limiting access. And it is a problem in our state. I do have, uh, teenage boy and, uh, it's something that we talk about quite often. So thank you for your time.

  26. Committee chair1:24:03

      Thank you. Okay. We have two witnesses online. Is there anyone else in the room who would like to speak? Okay, thank you, representative. Come back.

  27. Committee chair1:24:15

      We're gonna go to Marianne Christensen. Marianne will give you a minute and a half. And then Heidi Bley, be, be ready.

  28. Maryann Christensen, Executive Director, Utah Legislative Watch1:24:34

      Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak. I'm Maryanne Christensen, executive director of Utah Legislative Watch. I urge you to vote for this bill because when I was a kid, anything that I could in my body that was going to kill me had a skull and crossbones on it. It was very obvious to me. Now, there are dangerous substances being packaged in bright colors and sold in corner stores, and our kids are picking them up. And our young, our young adults are picking 'em up now. They're just energy greens, they're just vitamins. They're just whatever they say they are, but they're really dangerous. So I appreciate the legislation and I hope you'll vote us. Thank you very much.

  29. Committee chair1:25:16

      Thank you for joining us today. Next, uh, Heidi, if you would unmute.

  30. Heide Baxley, Chair, Utah Prevention Coalition1:25:21

      Hi, my name's Heidi Baxley. I'm the chair of the Utah Prevention Coalition Association. So I represent about 65 substance use prevention coalitions throughout the state of Utah. And we're so grateful to the sponsor of this bill for all her work, especially around regulation and enforcement. One of the things that we're most excited about in this bill is the limitations that will be placed on nicotine and tobacco advertising. We know from decades of research that advertising works and when tobacco and nicotine products are heavily advertised, youth use increases exposure, normalizes use, it lowers the perception of risk, and it increases the likelihood that young people will use tobacco products. Limiting advertising is a proven public health strategy, and we support reasonable limits on tobacco and nicotine advertising among all the other things, the great things in this bill. So thank you for your time.

  31. Committee chair1:26:12

      Thank you for participating. That'll close, uh, conclude our public comment. I will bring it back now to the committee for further discussion or action.

  32. Sen. David P. Hinkins1:26:24

      Senator Hinkins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would make a motion that we pass out, uh, second substitute house bill 3 85 with favorable recommendation.

  33. Committee chair1:26:34

      Okay, thank you. The motion is that we pass out house bill 3 85 second substitute, uh, discussion to the motion from committee. If you wanna hang around, you can walk. Okay. I'm not, no discussion, so I'll come back to you

  34. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:26:52

      for summation representative. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I wanna thank Heidi for streaming in and mentioning one more thing. The bill also does put c clarification in the statute on billboard advertising for nicotine products. 'cause there is currently a loophole. And I actually worked with Representative Fiefia on that was a, a priority of his. And so we were able to get those things, um, that, that put into this legislation. And then one other thing at the request of Representative Jefferson Burton was to make sure that when a license holder loses a license for breaking the law, currently there's a loophole where they can just do A DBA and open a new store the next day. And so this would tie licensing to people's names so that they could not just perpetually open and open and close and open and close stores. Um, a couple of provisions that I failed to mention. I do apologize that, uh, for that in my, um, my, my previous discussion, just to, to touch on one other thing that was brought up in public testimony, um, this is not intended to blur the lines between convenience stores and vape shops and all of the operators that operate in between. Um, this is the fee, the, the negotiated change in the fee and the structure of that was a recognition that tobacco use, the millions of dollars that are made on tobacco use, creates a, a true harm to our society. And a recognition that if you choose to sell tobacco in the state of Utah or any other products, even if you're not selling CBD or Kratom or whatever else, Dr. Forsyth and his team at the specialized products of division have the privilege to regulate. Um, if you decide to partake in this business, you have a small bit of skin in the game on making sure that we're keeping the most dangerous products out of the hands of our community and especially our children. And again, I, I don't want to be dismissive about the percentage increase, but I I really have a hard time, um, accepting that a $70 a month fee is an unreasonable cost of business to keep safe product, uh, as safe of products as we can on Shell. And, um, with that Mr. Chair and Committee, I would be very grateful for, uh, support of the motion.

  35. Committee chair1:29:09

      Thank you. Representative to the,

  36. Unknown speaker1:29:12speaker not certain

      Yeah, thank you Mr. Chairman. I, I, I serve as the chairman of the Appropriations for Natural Resources, which oversees the hemp program. And we charge them, uh, hemp producers and retailers a hundred thousand dollars a year to be a, a dealer. And, uh, you know, they get blamed for a lot of this stuff. They get blamed for stuff because sometimes they use, uh, hemp, but they also mix a lot of other things with it. Well, they're the ones that happen to pay for all this or talking about having to raise their fees because of all the police protection and all the, the things that they have to do. And, uh, we've been trying to figure out even how to do it. So this comes as a kind of a godsend to the, uh, industry that's trying to regulate and to keep our kids safe. And so be honest with you, to have our police enforcement to be able to help them to be able to check on these places that are selling these products is, you know, ridiculous. And I know that it's guilt by association. Some of these places that are selling tobacco probably aren't guilty of it. And if they, they don't wanna pay a fee, then maybe we ought to start sending the bill for the hospitals when they take these kids to er and, and places like that and let them pay for it. If, if, if they can prove that that's who sold 'em the products. And so with that, I would say that we need to pass this out with a favorable recommendation.

  37. Committee chair1:30:24

      Okay. Thank you, Senator. Uh, I will place the motion. All in favor of passing out house bill 3 85 second substitute specialized product sales amendments with a favorable recommendation indicate by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? If any, say nay rule passage unanimously.

  38. Committee chair1:30:48

      Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank You. Committee. Okay. Um, committee, I apologize for the long agenda on a Friday afternoon. We're at the end of the sessions, but we will plow through.

• Mar 6, 2026 Senate floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (8 turns)

  1. President (presiding)46:55

     replace it with the third substitute. The motion to substitute three five is in order. Do you want to explain the substitute?

  2. Sen. Michael K. McKell47:04

     Yeah. There's been a lot of stakeholder input and the third substitute builds a tiered license model. And that, that's coming from the feedback from the stakeholders.

  3. President (presiding)47:14

     Okay. Thank you. I'm gonna place the substitute motion. The motion is to delete and title and body second substitute house bill 3 85. And replace it with third substitute house bill 3 85. All in all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Rule? The motion passes. The bill is substitute to Senator Mikel.

  4. Sen. Michael K. McKell47:34

     Thank you Mr. President. This this bill in its third substitute and really throughout the process has been carefully negotiated. And what we're doing is we're creating some oversight with U daf. We, we've had problems in our specialty product retailers, and that's what this bill does. It also has some prohibitions on certain things that can't show up on, on billboards. It also allows our folks to execute a warrant. Um, as, as we started looking at this issue and create 'em and this and these, these industries just in general, there are a lot, a lot of problems and that's what this bill seeks to solve. Without, I'm open for questions.

  5. President (presiding)48:13

     Senator Mikel, there are no questions. I'm going to you for a motion.

  6. Sen. Michael K. McKell48:17

     Yeah. Thank you. I move that this bill pass.

  7. President (presiding)48:20

     Thank you. And the question is, shall third substitute house bill 3 85 under suspension. The rules pass. Roll call vote. Senator Vickers Baldry Lewin Brammer Bus Comore. Escamia Aye. Fillmore Grover Harper Hankins Ipson Johnson. Juab McKay. Mikel Milner Aye. Musman Owens pitcher Thumb McKay Aye. Aye. Re Sandal Stevenson Stratton Vickers Weiler Wilson Winterton. President Adams Aye. Third substitute house Bill 3 85. Having received 25 yay votes, zero nay votes. Four being absent passes his body will be signed, will be returned to the house. For further, we will be returned to the house for further consideration.

  8. President (presiding)49:38

     Uh, the next bill up is first substitute house bill 1 25. First substitute house bill 1 25. Aquatic invasive species amendments. Senator Hinkins.

• Mar 6, 2026 House floor debate▶ Watch
  Transcript (14 turns)

  1. Speaker (presiding)1:23:52

     Third substitute House Bill 3 85 Specialized product Sales Amendments by Representative Daley Provo. Representative Daley Provo.

  2. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:24:01

     Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to concur with the Senate amendments.

  3. Speaker (presiding)1:24:05

     Thank you representative. That motion is in order. Would you like to speak to it

  4. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:24:08

     Briefly? Thank you. This was a negotiated substitute with industry to create a tiered licensing structure that is more reflective of the regulatory burden for different store types.

  5. Speaker (presiding)1:24:20

     Thank you. Representative discussion to that motion Representative Thurston 4 92.

  6. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:24:25

     Thank you. We'll sponsor yield to a series of questions. Representative, will you yield? Yes. Yes. Representative.

  7. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:24:31

     Could you describe to us the difference between a tobacco specialty retailer and a general tobacco re retailer in the bill?

  8. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:24:37

     Yes. Thank you Mr. Speaker. A specialty store can carry various products like CBD and um, subsequent to recent Regi recent legislation, um, a limited number of CRE products And a general tobacco retailer. Generally a a general tobacco retailer will just carry tobacco and nicotine products.

  9. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:24:57

     And so this, the amendment made in the Senate clarifies that there are those separate categories and tiers of tobacco retailers. Is that correct?

  10. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:25:05

      It, it does and also creates a mechanism to make sure that if any retailer is operating with the wrong license, that that can be right sized.

  11. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:25:12

      Great. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

  12. Speaker (presiding)1:25:16

      Thank you Representative Thurston. Further discussion to the motion to concur. See none. We'll go ahead and place the motion.

  13. Speaker (presiding)1:25:25

      All in favor of concurring with Senate amendments on third substitute HB 3 85. Say aye. Any opposed?

  14. Speaker (presiding)1:25:31

      While that motion passes, the voting will now be open for final passes on HB 3 85. Seeing all present, having voted votings now closed third substitute HB 3 85 passes this body of 69 Yes. Votes one no vote and be sent to the Senate for the signature of the president.