Bills / H.B. 386

H.B. 386 Immigration Amendments

Did not passWritten by Rep. Lisa Shepherd

Introduced
House committee
House vote
Senate committee (stopped here)
Senate vote
Signed into law

What this bill does

According to the official description, this bill:

repeals:
the Guest Worker Program and related employee verification provisions
the Utah Pilot Sponsored Resident Immigrant Program Act
eliminates the repeal of the Private Employer Verification Act that is scheduled to occur on the Guest Worker Program start date
repeals the Identity Theft Victims Restricted Account that would have gone into effect on the Guest Worker Program start date
amends provisions regarding exceptions to verification of lawful presence for the receipt of certain public assistance benefits
makes technical and conforming changes

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Every vote

9 yes, 0 no, 7 absentHouse Business, Labor, and Commerce Committee: vote to approve it · Feb 26, 2026Who voted how
40 yes, 31 no, 4 absentHouse vote to change the bill · Feb 27, 2026Who voted how
39 yes, 33 no, 3 absentFinal House vote · Feb 27, 2026Who voted how

Hearings and debates

Feb 26, 2026 House Business, Labor, and Commerce Committee▶ Watch
Transcript (26 turns)
1. Committee vice chair (presiding)53:48
  Uh, HB 3 86, uh, rep Representative Shepherd.
2. Rep. Lisa Shepherd54:01
  Thank you. I have a bill analysis. Can we pass that out? What was that? We, I have a bill analysis. Is it okay if we pass that out to you?
3. Committee vice chair (presiding)54:09
  Uh, go ahead. Okay. Thank you. Go that way. Go around the back. Thank you. Whenever you're representative. Whenever you're ready, representative.
4. Rep. Lisa Shepherd54:21
  Thank you. While he is passing those out, I'll just give you a little bit of the history on this. So, in 2011, I don't know if any of you were here in 2011, if you were, you should let me know. There was two bills that were passed that had constitutional notes on them, meaning that there were unconstitutional. There was House Bill one 16 and House Bill 4 96. And those bills created guest worker program and a Utah Pilot sponsored Resident Immigration Program Act. It also did a couple things house that they created a employer verification act that would enact as soon as these bills enact, which they have to have a federal waiver or a date. And currently the date is July 1st, 2027, that these bills will enact. And that's currently what's in the code. Uh, this will also repeal, uh, they, they did a, uh, identity theft victims restrict account restricted account. Um, this will also repeal that. So it will repeal all those actions that happened in 2011 that had unconstitutional notes on them. Lemme give you a little bit of history. If anyone's, uh, has some more, they can always add it to it as well. So, as we all know, we have a huge immigration issue. It's probably expanded of an issue since 2011. And at that point in time, our good governor asked for, um, asked for President Obama to fix immigration and immigration. This is just a, a very tough issue. And, uh, and my understanding from my conversation was, well, then you figure it out. So here in Utah, we decided we had a solution, and that's what House Bill one 16 and 4 96 were. And so that's why they adopted them. Then we got sued. Now, the person that was the attorney, I can't speak with them about it. 'cause now they're a judge. So I, I couldn't get that confirmation, um, of what exactly happened. But I, I got that information from the per person that was the governor at that point in time. So this is pretty simple. I look at it as a cleanup bill, and we're just taking code that we can't use, um, that would enact in, in 20 se 2027 next year. And we can't enact because it's unconstitutional and we will get sued again. That's my presentation. Yeah.
5. Committee vice chair (presiding)56:39
  Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, we'll, uh, go to the committee for any clarifying questions. Representative Thurston.
6. Rep. Norman K Thurston56:46
  Thank you. So I wanna just clarify, the Utah Private Employer Verification Act is currently the law, and it would have been repealed only if the guest worker program was going to go into effect. So what your bill does is just says, we're going to continue doing what we've been doing with the Private Employer Verification Act. Nothing would, nobody would perceive any change in that, uh, that regard. Is that correct?
7. Rep. Lisa Shepherd57:12
  That that's absolutely correct. Yeah. Nothing's actually going to change because this has never been enacted.
8. Rep. Norman K Thurston57:17
  Okay. Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
9. Committee vice chair (presiding)57:19
  Thank you, Representative Burton.
10. Rep. Burton57:21
  Thanks, Mr. Chair. Just, uh, was anyone using this? Has any, had anyone tried to implement it yet? Like the agriculture industry? I'm just curious.
11. Rep. Lisa Shepherd57:30
  No, they're using the federal immigration, uh, visas for that. And so, again, this has never been enacted. They can't use it until July 1st, 2027. Right. And that's not, as you guys know, I don't need to give you a lesson in the Constitution. You know that immigration is not a state issue. It's a federal issue. And this bill, hopefully will say, federal government, will you please, please take care of this issue. If you like what we did in 2011, take a look at it and maybe you can implement it.
12. Committee vice chair (presiding)58:02
  Yeah. Thank you. Uh, it doesn't appear. I see no more lights. So we'll, uh, take it to the public for public comment. Is there anybody here that would like to speak to this bill Is Okay. Seeing none. We'll close public comment and take you to the committee for further action.
13. Committee vice chair (presiding)58:19
  Representative Burton,
14. Rep. Burton58:21
  Thanks for chair. Uh, motion to favorably pass out house bill 3 86, substitute one. Alright.
15. Committee vice chair (presiding)58:29
  Would you like to speak to that?
16. Rep. Burton58:32
  No, I just, I just think it's, uh, you know, one of the things I love about serving the state legislature is we can clean up messes and, and, and, uh, you know, set aside bills that make no sense. And I think this is a good one. So thank you.
17. Committee vice chair (presiding)58:44
  All right. We'll take you to the committee for discussion Representative. Our chairman Mao.
18. Rep. A. Cory Maloy58:52
  Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. Um, uh, I like the bill. I'm gonna support the bill, but I think the good sponsor has had it too easy. She's, she's been anticipating being in front of business and labor for a while, so I think we've gone too easy on her. Just kidding. I support the bill. Thank you.
19. Committee vice chair (presiding)59:12
  Okay. Uh, Representative Thurston.
20. Rep. Norman K Thurston59:16
  And that's my cue. No, I, I, I, I was not in the legislature when this was, bills were passed, but I was working in the governor's office, so I was very aware of the conversations at the time. Um, Utah had a much, much better solution. And all we needed was the federal waiver. That's all we need now. Like that as if that was just some sort of simple thing that they could just get out a piece of paper. Like if Obama had a phone in a pen, he could have just done it. Oh, wait, he did. And he could have and he didn't, which is very unfortunate for us. Um, because that was a, a much better solution. It would've allowed us to have our own allotment of guesswork or visas. We could have handled it on our own. We could have solved a lot of problems. And here we are today, dealing with the fact that what, 15 years down the road, nobody from the federal government seems to care about helping us. And so, um, yeah. So I'm just gonna just vote no, just because, no, I'm just kidding. I, I support the bill. I think, I think it's great that we can get this done, but it is important that we, um, raise a fuss. Part of me wants to vote no and just let this go into effect in 2027 and have the lawsuits and have the fight, but that's money we don't have. So that's a topic for another day.
21. Committee vice chair (presiding)1:00:28
  Okay. Thank you. Uh, I see no more lights, so We'll, uh, uh, and committee, we'll take it to the sponsor to some.
22. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:00:38
  Thank you. I just wanted to, to close with something I already said. I ask and beg our federal delegation and Congress to adopt something that's going to work to fix our immigration problem and allow people to come here legally so that we can have the people that we need. So I, I thank you for the vote and thank you for the motion.
23. Committee vice chair (presiding)1:01:01
  Alright. Thank you. And, uh, and Representative Burton to sum
24. Rep. Burton1:01:07
  Waive. Okay.
25. Committee vice chair (presiding)1:01:08
  The motion is that we recommend favorably HB 3 86. First substitute. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. And those against. Alright. Right. And that passes. Thank you. Did you want this on consent or No? Okay. Nevermind. Okay. So Anymore, Oh yeah. Probably not a good idea anymore. It's getting kind of late for, okay. Okay. Do we have a, um, Senator Weiler? Okay.
26. Chair Maloy (presiding)1:01:47
  Okay. Uh, I'm taking over the gavel for just a moment while, uh, Representative Kyle presents his bill HB 5 43
Feb 27, 2026 House floor debate▶ Watch
Transcript (58 turns)
1. Speaker (presiding)1:16:11
  Per substitute house Bill 3 86 Immigration amendments by Representative Shepherd. This bill was heard in business and labor with a vote of 9 0 7. Representative Shepherd.
2. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:16:25
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. Back in 2011, Utah legislature adopted house Bill one 16 in house bill 4 96 and they had constitutional notes on them saying that they were unconstitutional for a state to adopt. Now one was a guest worker program and had a fiscal note of 5,921,000 some dollars. And the other one was a Utah Pilot sponsored Resident Immigration Program Act and that was a little over a million dollars. So this bill will repeal those since we don't have the authority to actually adopt immigration, federal immigration law here in our state. And it also keeps the in, uh, we will, it was set to repeal the e verify. This will keep the e verify and it will repeal the identity theft victims restricted account and all the funding, uh, that goes along with that. So the whole thing here is that our federal government needs to act and they need to be the ones that are going to adopt a federal program. If they like what we have here, I invite them to look at it and use it. And that is my presentation.
3. Speaker (presiding)1:17:34
  Thank you Representative Shepherd. Uh, discussion to the motion, or sorry, discussion to the bill. Sorry. On discussion to first sub HB 3 86. Representative Lee.
4. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:17:47
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. Um, I make a motion, uh, to adopt, uh, a substitute.
5. Speaker (presiding)1:17:54
  Thank you representative. Uh, that is that first or second substitute under your name.
6. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:17:59
  Yes it is. Thank you representative.
7. Speaker (presiding)1:18:00
  That motion is an order motion before us. Is that, uh, the house adopt, uh, second substitute on HB 3 86 under Representative Lee's name.
8. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:18:10
  Would you like to speak to that Representative Lee? Yes, I would. Just briefly, um, this is gonna add in four different provisions to the bill as it pertains to requiring, uh, proof of citizenship, uh, state retirement, housing, licensing and tuition. Thank you Representative Lee.
9. Speaker (presiding)1:18:28
  Uh, let's go to Representative Shepherd, um, on the motion to adopt second substitute.
10. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:18:35
  Um, I'm okay with that if the body votes for it. Thank you Representative Shepherd.
11. Speaker (presiding)1:18:40
  Okay, representatives, um, if your light is on, it is to speak to the motion to adopt second substitute on HB 3 86. Represent Daily Pro.
12. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:18:56
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise in opposition to this motion to amend most acutely because this amendment is nothing more than HB 88 7 sub substituted into another bill and is not entirely germane. But more importantly, this substitute is identical to HB 88 in removing opportunities and pathways for students in our state who are doing everything that they possibly can by every standard and bar to achieve citizenship, this cuts off those, uh, higher education opportunities. This amendment or this substitute, is also identical to HB 88 7 sub where it amends section co code section 53 H dash 11 dash four 14 in removing the promise program eligibility for states who, for students who do qualify under state code 53 H dash 11 dash 2 0 3, the substitute is also identical to HB 88, substitute seven and amends section code 60 3G dash 12 dash 4 0 2, which ELE eliminates tuition exemptions and scholarship exemptions. Further, this bill, which is um, a copy of HB 88 Substitute seven, eliminates opportunities for homeowners or for aspiring homeowners to access loans including FHA and VA loans and as well as, uh, lending through Freddie, uh, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This bill, this substitute also amends Title 49, eliminating opportunities for employees in the State of Utah to access Utah Retirement Systems. PEHP. And this is all hinges on citizenship and makes no concessions for people who are, um, in the process of applying for citizenship, um, and doing everything that we ask them to. I am deeply opposed to HB 88 and offended that this bill would be substituted into another bill. I'd oppose the motion. Thank you, representative Daley Provo.
13. Speaker (presiding)1:21:12
  Further discussion to the bill. Let's go to Representative Ward, or sorry, discussion to the Motion to Adopt. Second substitute.
14. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:21:22
  Uh, uh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Would the sponsor of the substitute yield to a series of questions? Representative Lee, will you yield to a series of questions?
15. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:21:28
  Yes, judge, representative Warren.
16. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:21:30
  Thank you. Uh, Mr. Speaker, if a child had come here, um, when they were very young and it was illegal for them to come, but they were very young and they lived here ever since, and they were now going to one of our colleges and hoped to live here after graduation, would they still be allowed, uh, under this bill to pay in-state tuition? Would they, You repeat, would they be able to pay intake in-state tuition or they would have to pay out of state tuition?
17. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:21:55
  Thank you Mr. Speaker for the question. Um, if you are here and you do not have citizenship, you will not be able to receive a grant or tuition that is subsidized by the taxpayers.
18. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:22:06
  Thank you. So, out-of-state tuition is much more expensive to the point that many of those students would have to drop out of school because they would no longer be able to benefit. They would not be able to afford it if we, if those folks cannot go to school. What other group of people do we expect would benefit by that?
19. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:22:26
  Thank you for the question, Mr. Speaker. Uh, so Utahans would benefit from this, uh, people like our own children who are paying a ton for their college and their education and tuition. And this would help give them those opportunities who are here legally.
20. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:22:40
  Thank. Thank you. I don't see a fiscal note either on this sub or on the language in the other bill from before in in house bill 88, sub seven, when that fiscal note is available, do you expect that this policy change would be a cost savings to the state?
21. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:22:53
  Uh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Yes, I would
22. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:22:57
  Thank you, uh, for that answer. Um, many of those students, in my mind, Mr. Speaker, would just simply not be able to go to school. The school would forego that tuition money. And it's not like there'd be some other amount
23. Speaker (presiding)1:23:08
  of money available to them. Point of orders Been point of order has been called Representative Voxer. Please stand, stand. Oh, no. Stand state. Sorry.
24. Unknown speaker1:23:16speaker not certain
  I got a computer in front of me, but I was just talking Representative board. Back to you. Sorry. Uh, Yeah. Um,
25. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:23:24
  folks who pay in, in-state tuition, um, that money would just not come into the state, right? So the state would lose that tuition money. It's not clear to me what other money would replace that. So that would then be a loss of money to the state. If there's not a fiscal note savings from that policy, then it really isn't clear to me at all who else could possibly benefit if we stop young folks who have lived here much of their life from going to school, um, and getting an education. It is, it's really clear to me that we have hurt that person. It's not clear to me at all that we have benefited the rest of us.
26. Speaker (presiding)1:24:03
  Thank you, Representative Ward.
27. Speaker (presiding)1:24:04
  Further discussion to the bill Representative Wind.
28. Rep. Hoang Nguyen1:24:10
  Thank you, Mrs. Speaker. We'll, the, uh, sponsor of the sub yield Representative, Lee, will you yield?
29. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:24:19
  Yes. Yes. Representative Wind. Thank
30. Rep. Hoang Nguyen1:24:21
  You, Mrs. Speaker. I'm gonna take a moment here 'cause this is, this is important. As many of you know, or some of you may not miss the speaker. I, I've gotten to know some of the folks in this body well and some others not as well. I don't like to really share my story as much unless I'm asked to share it. And I think it's really germane to what's happening in the sub right now. Many of you might not know that. When I was elected to represent in to serve this term of 2025 to 2026, I made history in Utah. When I did that, I made history by becoming the first Vietnamese American ever elected to the state rep, state legislature, and the first refugee ever elected to the state legislature. My family and I, we came from Vietnam. We came after the Vietnam War. My mom and dad, seven kids. We first came to the Bay Area, Oakland, California came in 1983. I was only one years old. My dad was working as a, as a landscaper, cutting grass, picking weeds. He Uintah school at nighttime to go and to go to the local community college to learn to be an auto mechanic. He figured Americans love their cars, so that would be a solid way to be able to support his family. My mom was a dishwasher and a seamstress. We were brand new to the country. We did not know the language. We're trying and figure it out. We were living in the project in Section eight housing. Unfortunately, in 1987, a few short years after we arrived in the us my father was coming home from work one night accosted by two young men who should not have had a gun, but they did. They robbed him and they killed him on the street. This left my mom a 30 5-year-old widow with seven children from the ages of three to 15. I was only five at the time. So life was rough. We had to get on Medicaid, we had to get on food stamps, we had to get on more housing to try to get through. Luckily, my mom had a cousin living here in Utah. He told her, bring the family over here. It's a much better place to raise a family than it was where we were. So in 1992, we moved here. My mom was able to save up enough money to buy a little home on the west side of Salt Lake in Glendale. And we figured it out. I became a na all well, all of my siblings and I. When we became 18, we were able to become naturalized citizens, registered to vote, and eventually I was able to go college. I relied on Pell Grants, I relied on in-state tuition, riding all of those services to be able to get through. I was one of the younger ones, the second to youngest. The older ones weren't able to go college. They had to sacrifice their childhood to help raise the younger ones. So I was one of the fortunate ones who got to rely on these programs to be able to get to school. Fast forward to where we are now, 40 something years later in the us my family and I, through the grace of God, through the programs that were in place for us to be able to get us through the hard time, we've been able to create a business where we've employed thousands of utahans returned, returned millions to the states in sales revenue that we've generated through our business that we own. The reason why I share this story with you is because we have something really unique here in Utah. Ke Sea Gardner once put out a research that showed in Utah, we had a record where we led the nation where the bottom 20% was able, through the course of their lifetime here in Utah, moved to the top 20%. Why were we able to do that? We were able to do that because our forefathers here in Utah saw what was important about our state here. The beauty of our state, regardless of who was at the federal lever level, a democrat, a Republican, we created a unique bubble here in Utah to support our neighbors. We had the highest rate of women graduating college. Highest rate of volunteerism after the great recession in 2008. We rebounded the fastest after a global pandemic. We rebounded the fastest. We always tell how we had the number one economy, highest educated population, all of this because the po, the policies that or forefathers put in place, took care of community. Regardless of where you came from, regardless of what your status was, you had the support of your community here to take care of you and give you that upward mobility. Now, I know so many people have told me, you are unique. You, your family did it the right way. You guys went through the policy. You guys were never illegal. Sure, but what's the difference is what if we weren't that unique? What if I, my family was like all the kids that I grew up with on the west side, not all, I'm sorry. A lot of the kids I grew up on the west side who necessarily did not have the privilege to come into this country the legal way. But they came here for the exact same reason. They came here with the same desires to be able to have that American dream by subbing in these substitutes. I would not have been able to go to college. My mother would not been able to buy that house on the west side and be able to leverage it to build the first restaurant that she had. I fear that what we're doing here in Utah is we are eroding what truly makes Utah special, the Utah way. We are starting to adopt policies that are regressive and don't take care of people. Utahns are one thing. Citizens are one thing. People is the first thing. This is why it matters so much. This is why I want so badly to get back to what I know, that Utah way is taking care of our neighbors, building a great economy, letting people have the dignity of work to be able to support their family. And with that speaker, I hope that you will not support the sub. Thank you.
31. Speaker (presiding)1:31:13
  Thank you, representative Wynn. Further discussion to the bill Representative Thurston.
32. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:31:20
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to circle.
33. Speaker (presiding)1:31:25
  Thank you, representative. That motion is in order. Uh, would you like to speak to that?
34. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:31:29
  Yes, I would. Oh, sorry. That's a substitute. Ocean Substitute motion to circle.
35. Speaker (presiding)1:31:34
  Thank you representative. Would you like to speak to that motion?
36. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:31:37
  I would. Um, I am looking at the section starting on line 4 61. I don't believe it does what the maker of the motion says it does. So I've been on the phone with the drafting attorneys to try to figure this out, and I don't think we're going to be able to come to an easy understanding of this anytime soon. And let me just explain what the question is. This says that a student shall be exempt from paying the non-resident portion of total tuition. In other words, they get to pay the in-state tuition unless they are a non-immigrant alien defined in US. Code section 1101, A 15, 11 0 1 A 15 does not define kids who have no status as non-immigrant aliens. That section talks about children of FH one b, J one, F1, ambassadors, kids, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't know what this substitute does. I can't figure it out. I can't figure it out if we are making it easier or harder for children who don't have legal status to get in-state tuition. And I think that is an important policy discussion, which is why I don't really like doing important policy discussions on the house floor on day 38. I would rather that we have time to do this right, with public comment in committees, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and so I would like to circle, so at least know what this does before we have to vote on it.
37. Speaker (presiding)1:33:15
  Thank you, Representative Thurston. Let's go to Representative Lee.
38. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:33:19
  The, uh, underline, uh, uh, with the underlying motion, uh, on the substitute motion to circle, Uh, no, I project that motion to circle it. I, I think that the statute is clear and we can still have some time to discuss this. There is a whole nother chamber as well, and a committee hearing that this will have, that We can go over this if there still are questions and concerns.
39. Speaker (presiding)1:33:43
  Okay. Representatives, if your light is on it is to speak to the motion to circle Representative MacPherson.
40. Rep. Matt MacPherson1:33:54
  Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am also just, maybe just as a clarification, I'm looking at that section of federal code and it is a, a section that defines these terms. So I, I think that the motion to circle is premature.
41. Speaker (presiding)1:34:19
  Thank you. Thank you Representative MacPherson. Further discussion to the motion to circle back to you Representative Thurston on your motion to circle.
42. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:34:31
  Yes. So I had lengthy discussion while discussion was going with the drafting attorneys. It's not clear to me, it's not clear to them. I don't know. There is a reasonable chance, colleagues that this bill makes it easier for undocumented kids to get instate tuition because we don't know what it really does. There's a reasonable chance that it makes harder for undocumented kids to get in state tuition because we don't really know what it does. So if you're gonna vote on this, this bill, you better figure out if we're not gonna circle it, you better figure out for yourself whether you're voting to make it easier or harder for those kids. I don't know, is it gonna make it easier or harder because of the way this is drafted. So that's why I wanna circle so I know what I am voting for. So thank you Mr. Speaker.
43. Speaker (presiding)1:35:13
  Thank you Representative Thurston. Uh, go ahead and place, uh, the motion, the substitute motion.
44. Speaker (presiding)1:35:21
  The substitute motion is the house circle first substitute H or sorry, yes. The, the, the house. Sorry. Substitute motion is the house circle first substitute HP 3 86. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No, I rule that. Motion passes. The bill is division. Mr. Speaker division has been called if five or more will stand, we will be in division of five standing. We are in division. So, uh, let's, uh, chief clerk, if you'll open it up on the motion in division. So representatives, if you're voting yes, you're voting to circle. If you're voting no, you're voting to continue debate, all the house has been requested in her moral stand. We will be in, call the house. Okay, 10 or more have, we will be in a call. All the house has been lifted, voting is now closed. Substitute, uh, motion to circle fails. We will continue debate. So on the underlining motion to adopt the second substitute. So if your light is on, it is on to speak on the motion to substitute. So let's go to representative gracious.
45. Rep. Stephanie Gricius1:41:06
  Thank you. I'd like to call the question,
46. Speaker (presiding)1:41:08
  Previous question has been called, which has the effective ending debate on the motion to adopt second substitute discussion to, well, let's go to Representative Lee on
47. Rep. Lee (not on roster)1:41:19
  That. Well, thank you Mr. Speaker. And thank you, uh, to those who've discussed this, uh, debate on the substitute, uh, especially, um, some of the warm heartfelt stories that we, we heard. Um, I, I just wanna clarify that if, if you're a legal resident, this would not apply to you. And, and I believe the bill is very clear on that with this. And so it would not affect those who are coming and doing this the right way and trying to become American citizens. Uh, and so I would appreciate the support for this substitute. Thank you.
48. Speaker (presiding)1:41:49
  Thank you Representative Lee. Further discussion, or oh, no, no debate. Sorry. We'll place the motion. Uh, all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Well, that motion fails. We continued debate vision has been called a five moral stand. Okay, we are still in debate. Uh, or sorry, we'll go ahead and place the, we'll go to the, the board to vote. If you're voting yes, you are voting to end debate if or the other way around. I apologize, representatives, I'm gonna place the motion to adopt second substitute. Okay, let me do that again. I apologize. I I was incorrect. We're gonna place the motion to adopt second substitute on, uh, 3 86 HP 3 86 under Representative Lee's name,
49. Unknown speaker1:43:14speaker not certain
  state your point, Representative Peterson. I believe the motion was to call the question and that's what we should be voting on.
50. Speaker (presiding)1:43:20
  It's a non debatable motion. And so we're voting On, I know, I I I made a mistake on that. I, we already, let me start over again. Okay, representative gracious, will you
51. Rep. Stephanie Gricius1:43:37
  Restate the motion? I would like to move previous question.
52. Speaker (presiding)1:43:40
  Previous question has the effect of ending debate, which is non debatable. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? No. Will that Motion passes. We've ended debate. Let's go to Representative Lee for summation on the motion to adopt. Second substitute. I'll wa on the sub. Okay, we'll now go ahead and place the motion. The motion before is the house adopt second substitute on HB 3 86. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Will that motion passes? Division has been called a five. Moral stand will be in division. Okay. We are in division. Sorry, representatives. The system's froze. We're just trying to get that figured out. Okay. We are in division. If you are voting yes, you're voting to adopt second substitute on 3 86. If everybody know you're voting to not adopt second substitute voting is now open. All the house has been called, uh, 10 or moral stand will be in call the house. Okay. Uh, 10 or more stood. So we are in a call the house for representative. All the house has been lifted. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? All that motion passes. Voting is now. Okay. Uh, second substitute. HB 3 86 has passed, uh, has passed, and now we're on the underlying bill, uh, discussion to the underlying bill with Representative Arthur.
53. Rep. John Arthur1:47:11
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. This bill is familiar to me. I remember back when I was studying to become a teacher and I was thinking about the students that I would be serving. Uh, I heard about in the news this idea that this law that had passed previously in about 2002, I believe, that allowed students who had come to Utah as undocumented kids who were brought here by their families with no choice in the matter themselves. They had been allowed in 2002 to go to our institutions of higher education with, in-state tuition, making it affordable for them to, to continue their education. And as I was preparing to enter public education as a school teacher, I heard about an effort to, to not only make it harder for them to go to higher education, but to make it so that they were no longer regarded in a lot of ways as Utahans. I, I myself moved here when I was eight years old. My father was a soldier. I was a shy Korean army brat. I was born at Fort Benning, Georgia, Mr. Speaker, and I was, I was brought here to, to Fort Douglas, Utah. And I don't know at what point I became a uan, but at some point I did. At some point I identified as a uan, not just as a resident, not as a citizen, but as a Utah. Utah. And now I stand in the, in the, this chamber as the representative for House District 41. And what this bill is going to do is the same thing it tried to do in the past. It's trying to take away that identification, that status as AAN to say that, Hey kid, let's remember who we're talking about here. We're talking about students who attended Utah High schools for at least three years. We're talking about Utah children who graduated from Utah high schools alongside their peers. When we talk about this bill now, after the substitute, we're talking about removing in-state tuition from kids who have lived in-state in many cases, most of if not their whole lives. As I've taught these kids for the last 13 years, I've been grateful for the fact that as my students leave sixth grade and I have invested my blood, sweat and tears to helping them read at grade level to helping them achieve at the highest levels of math and social studies, as we say, the Pledge of Allegiance every morning and we study our civics. I could always tell my students, Hey, don't worry when you go to the Salt Lake Community College, when you go to the University of Utah, when you go to any public university or college, you're gonna get to pay the amount that, that you can afford because it's gonna be in-state tuition. Because of course you're a resident. Of course you are a Utah. Utah. If we pass this bill today, colleagues, we will be telling these young people again who have graduated from our high schools, these kids who have gone to at least three years of, of school here, that you're no longer a Utah today. We passed a bill that would allow any student in ROTC to get in-state tuition because we recognize that there is value in that. And yet we are going to tell so many of the children that I serve today and that are right now making us proud in college, that you are no longer a utan, that you no longer deserve to pay what all the other Utahans pay to go to school here. My friends, in addition to that being in, in my mind, poor judgment, it's bad business. I've spent my, my professional life educating and uplifting these children. I've, I've given everything. My wife has given everything, every teacher in the state has given everything. But more importantly, we have invested countless dollars into their education K to 12. And now we're gonna squander that investment, Mr. Speaker, by not making it affordable for them to continue on to become the drivers of our workforce, the economic development that we need. We have the highest mobility, economic mobility in the country. Because as my, my dear colleague pointed out, Utah does so many things right? And one of those things is we leverage and we build on the brilliance and capacity of everybody in this state who we get to embrace as Utahans. We should not be cutting out any group of Utahans. We shouldn't be embracing and elevating all of us if we do that, if we choose policies as as they did over 20 years ago, as many in this body did just over 10 years ago and continue to make that good policy, our guiding star then Mr. Speaker, we will not only fulfill the dream that, that my mother had when she came to this country as, as so many of our parents had when they came to this great state. But we will be fulfilling the promise that we have made to these children. These children are often called dreamers. But I promise you Mr. Speaker, that if we continue to invest in them and help them be successful, they'll make all our dreams come true. Thank you.
54. Speaker (presiding)1:52:50
  Thank you Representative Arthur. Further discussion to the bill representative ch
55. Rep. Kristen Chevrier1:52:55speaker not certain
  Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we forget sometimes to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants and we lump them all into the same category. There are a lot of people who have worked for years, waited for years, stood in line at embassies for years to get here and they have never been able to come. They were trying to do it the right way and they, they are not rewarded for that. I also think that there's a fallacy with the compassion. Um, the way we portray compassion. We, if we are compassionate to those who come the legal way and we are compassionate to those who already live here, that does not mean that we lack compassion for others in other ways. Um, I know of many people in Moldova, I know personally people who have wanted to come here for years. They are in a very dire situation in, in Moldova. And they can't get here because they, they can't cross a border to get here. We also have people on our DSPD waiting list who have been there for years for so long that they have gone from childhood to adulthood without the care that they need and without the respite for their parents. That is needed. If we have resources, they should be spent first on our own people who are here legally. Um, I encourage everyone to vote yes on this bill. And I call the question, okay, I don't call the question. You can do that in the party. You can do that. Wrong rules. Okay, that's fine. I just didn't know the rule. Thank you.
56. Speaker (presiding)1:54:38
  Thank you representative ch uh, Representative MacPherson Call. Previous question. Previous question has been called, which has the effect of ending debate. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Well, that motion passes debate has ended back to Representative Shepherd for summation.
57. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:55:00
  Thank you Mr. Speaker, uh, body. You've adopted a second substitute, but I'd like you to remember in there that the beginning of this bill addresses laws that we do not have a legal authority to have. If we allow these laws to enact in July of 2027, we will be sued. It'll be the second time we get sued for having this guest worker programs. So I want you to remember that. Another thing I want you to know is that I have a neighbor, his name is Tino. Tino came here the legal way. Tino works his tail off. He's in construction. One day Tino said to me, I'm gonna have to move and I didn't know why and I asked him and he said, 'cause my employer, who he's always been getting really good pay from, said I don't have to pay you as much anymore. 'cause I have all these other people that aren't legal and I can pay them much lower wages. And Tino, that really hurt his family. He'd been my neighbor for a long time. Luckily we got to keep him. He started his own company and he's flourishing. He came here the right way. I have another friend named Arturo Arturo's married his wife is still in another country. He can't get her over here because our legal immigration is not fixed. Our federal delegation, our federal Congress will not fix it. It's too easy to not fix it and run on those things. I call on our federal government to fix legal immigration if you like. What we have that we are removing here in this bill house Bill 3 86, please take a look at it and adopt it. We've done it. Utah does great things. You can look at this. If it's what you want, federal government, please enact it because we cannot afford in our state of Utah to be funding everyone else before we're funding ourselves. Mr. Speaker, when I came here from Wisconsin many years ago, I wasn't a citizen. I was a citizen but I wasn't a resident and I had to wait for six months, get a driver's license and go through everything that I had to go through to be able to get in-state tuition. I was 18 years old, I was here all by myself. There's nobody paying for me to do anything. I had to do it. I'm considering what's happening to the other kids that are coming from other states. Are they paying in? Uh, do they get to pay in-state tuition but we're taking care of other country's children first and I want to take care of Utahans first. In my campaign, I ran and said Utahans first and this bill will put Utahans first I ask you for your support. Thank you.
58. Speaker (presiding)1:57:51
  Thank you. Representative voting will now be open on second substitute HB 3 86. All the house has been called uh, Tanner Moore stand. We will be in call the house. Okay, Tanner standing, we're in call the house, all the house has been lifted. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? That motion passes the call. The house has lifted. Voting is now closed. See now President having voted now voting is now closed. Second substitute HB 3 86 passes this body with 39 yeses and 33 no votes will be sent to the Senate for its consideration. Okay, uh, let's go to Madam Reading Clerk for a rules committee report.
Feb 27, 2026 House floor debate▶ Watch
Transcript (53 turns)
1. Speaker (presiding)1:17:59
  Yes it is. Thank you representative. That motion is an order motion before us. Is that, uh, the house adopt, uh, second substitute on HB 3 86 under Representative Lee's name. Would you like to speak to that Representative
2. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:18:11
  Lee? Yes, I would. Just briefly, um, this is gonna add in four different provisions to the bill as it pertains to requiring, uh, proof of citizenship, uh, state retirement, housing, licensing and tuition.
3. Speaker (presiding)1:18:26
  Thank you Representative Lee. Uh, let's go to Representative Shepherd, um, on the motion to adopt second substitute.
4. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:18:35
  Um, I'm okay with that if the body votes for it.
5. Speaker (presiding)1:18:37
  Thank you Representative Shepherd. Okay, representatives, um, if your light is on, it is to speak to the motion to adopt second substitute on HB 3 86. Represent Daily Pro.
6. Rep. Jennifer Dailey-Provost1:18:56
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. I rise in opposition to this motion to amend most acutely because this amendment is nothing more than HB 88 7 sub substituted into another bill and is not entirely germane. But more importantly, this substitute is identical to HB 88 in removing opportunities and pathways for students in our state who are doing everything that they possibly can by every standard and bar to achieve citizenship, this cuts off those, uh, higher education opportunities. This amendment or this substitute, is also identical to HB 88 7 sub where it amends section co code section 53 H dash 11 dash four 14 in removing the promise program eligibility for states who, for students who do qualify under state code 53 H dash 11 dash 2 0 3, the substitute is also identical to HB 88, substitute seven and amends section code 60 3G dash 12 dash 4 0 2, which ELE eliminates tuition exemptions and scholarship exemptions. Further, this bill, which is um, a copy of HB 88 Substitute seven, eliminates opportunities for homeowners or for aspiring homeowners to access loans including FHA and VA loans and as well as, uh, lending through Freddie, uh, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This bill, this substitute also amends Title 49, eliminating opportunities for employees in the State of Utah to access Utah Retirement Systems. PEHP. And this is all hinges on citizenship and makes no concessions for people who are, um, in the process of applying for citizenship, um, and doing everything that we ask them to. I am deeply opposed to HB 88 and offended that this bill would be substituted into another bill. I'd oppose the motion.
7. Speaker (presiding)1:21:10
  Thank you, representative Daley Provo. Further discussion to the bill.
8. Speaker (presiding)1:21:14
  Let's go to Representative Ward, or sorry, discussion to the Motion to Adopt. Second substitute.
9. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:21:22
  Uh, uh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Would the sponsor of the substitute yield to a series of questions? Representative Lee, will you yield to a series of questions?
10. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:21:28
  Yes, judge, representative Warren.
11. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:21:30
  Thank you. Uh, Mr. Speaker, if a child had come here, um, when they were very young and it was illegal for them to come, but they were very young and they lived here ever since, and they were now going to one of our colleges and hoped to live here after graduation, would they still be allowed, uh, under this bill to pay in-state tuition? Would they, You repeat, would they be able to pay intake in-state tuition or they would have to pay out of state tuition?
12. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:21:55
  Thank you Mr. Speaker for the question. Um, if you are here and you do not have citizenship, you will not be able to receive a grant or tuition that is subsidized by the taxpayers.
13. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:22:06
  Thank you. So, out-of-state tuition is much more expensive to the point that many of those students would have to drop out of school because they would no longer be able to benefit. They would not be able to afford it if we, if those folks cannot go to school. What other group of people do we expect would benefit by that?
14. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:22:26
  Thank you for the question, Mr. Speaker. Uh, so Utahans would benefit from this, uh, people like our own children who are paying a ton for their college and their education and tuition. And this would help give them those opportunities who are here legally.
15. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:22:40
  Thank. Thank you. I don't see a fiscal note either on this sub or on the language in the other bill from before in in house bill 88, sub seven, when that fiscal note is available, do you expect that this policy change would be a cost savings to the state?
16. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:22:53
  Uh, thank you Mr. Speaker. Yes, I would
17. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:22:57
  Thank you, uh, for that answer. Um, many of those students, in my mind, Mr. Speaker, would just simply not be able to go to school. The school would forego that tuition money. And it's not like there'd be some other amount
18. Speaker (presiding)1:23:08
  of money available to them. Point of orders Been point of order has been called Representative Voxer. Please stand, stand. Oh, no. Stand state. Sorry.
19. Unknown speaker1:23:16speaker not certain
  I got a computer in front of me, but I was just talking Representative board. Back to you. Sorry. Uh, Yeah. Um,
20. Rep. Raymond P. Ward1:23:24
  folks who pay in, in-state tuition, um, that money would just not come into the state, right? So the state would lose that tuition money. It's not clear to me what other money would replace that. So that would then be a loss of money to the state. If there's not a fiscal note savings from that policy, then it really isn't clear to me at all who else could possibly benefit if we stop young folks who have lived here much of their life from going to school, um, and getting an education. It is, it's really clear to me that we have hurt that person. It's not clear to me at all that we have benefited the rest of us.
21. Speaker (presiding)1:24:03
  Thank you, Representative Ward. Further discussion to the bill Representative Wind.
22. Rep. Hoang Nguyen1:24:10speaker not certain
  Thank you, Mrs. Speaker. We'll, the, uh, sponsor of the sub yield Representative, Lee, will you yield?
23. Speaker (presiding)1:24:19
  Yes. Yes. Representative Wind. Thank
24. Rep. Hoang Nguyen1:24:21speaker not certain
  You, Mrs. Speaker. I'm gonna take a moment here 'cause this is, this is important. As many of you know, or some of you may not miss the speaker. I, I've gotten to know some of the folks in this body well and some others not as well. I don't like to really share my story as much unless I'm asked to share it. And I think it's really germane to what's happening in the sub right now. Many of you might not know that. When I was elected to represent in to serve this term of 2025 to 2026, I made history in Utah. When I did that, I made history by becoming the first Vietnamese American ever elected to the state rep, state legislature, and the first refugee ever elected to the state legislature. My family and I, we came from Vietnam. We came after the Vietnam War. My mom and dad, seven kids. We first came to the Bay Area, Oakland, California came in 1983. I was only one years old. My dad was working as a, as a landscaper, cutting grass, picking weeds. He Uintah school at nighttime to go and to go to the local community college to learn to be an auto mechanic. He figured Americans love their cars, so that would be a solid way to be able to support his family. My mom was a dishwasher and a seamstress. We were brand new to the country. We did not know the language. We're trying and figure it out. We were living in the project in Section eight housing. Unfortunately, in 1987, a few short years after we arrived in the us my father was coming home from work one night accosted by two young men who should not have had a gun, but they did. They robbed him and they killed him on the street. This left my mom a 30 5-year-old widow with seven children from the ages of three to 15. I was only five at the time. So life was rough. We had to get on Medicaid, we had to get on food stamps, we had to get on more housing to try to get through. Luckily, my mom had a cousin living here in Utah. He told her, bring the family over here. It's a much better place to raise a family than it was where we were. So in 1992, we moved here. My mom was able to save up enough money to buy a little home on the west side of Salt Lake in Glendale. And we figured it out. I became a na all well, all of my siblings and I. When we became 18, we were able to become naturalized citizens, registered to vote, and eventually I was able to go college. I relied on Pell Grants, I relied on in-state tuition, riding all of those services to be able to get through. I was one of the younger ones, the second to youngest. The older ones weren't able to go college. They had to sacrifice their childhood to help raise the younger ones. So I was one of the fortunate ones who got to rely on these programs to be able to get to school. Fast forward to where we are now, 40 something years later in the us my family and I, through the grace of God, through the programs that were in place for us to be able to get us through the hard time, we've been able to create a business where we've employed thousands of utahans returned, returned millions to the states in sales revenue that we've generated through our business that we own. The reason why I share this story with you is because we have something really unique here in Utah. Ke Sea Gardner once put out a research that showed in Utah, we had a record where we led the nation where the bottom 20% was able, through the course of their lifetime here in Utah, moved to the top 20%. Why were we able to do that? We were able to do that because our forefathers here in Utah saw what was important about our state here. The beauty of our state, regardless of who was at the federal lever level, a democrat, a Republican, we created a unique bubble here in Utah to support our neighbors. We had the highest rate of women graduating college. Highest rate of volunteerism after the great recession in 2008. We rebounded the fastest after a global pandemic. We rebounded the fastest. We always tell how we had the number one economy, highest educated population, all of this because the po, the policies that or forefathers put in place, took care of community. Regardless of where you came from, regardless of what your status was, you had the support of your community here to take care of you and give you that upward mobility. Now, I know so many people have told me, you are unique. You, your family did it the right way. You guys went through the policy. You guys were never illegal. Sure, but what's the difference is what if we weren't that unique? What if I, my family was like all the kids that I grew up with on the west side, not all, I'm sorry. A lot of the kids I grew up on the west side who necessarily did not have the privilege to come into this country the legal way. But they came here for the exact same reason. They came here with the same desires to be able to have that American dream by subbing in these substitutes. I would not have been able to go to college. My mother would not been able to buy that house on the west side and be able to leverage it to build the first restaurant that she had. I fear that what we're doing here in Utah is we are eroding what truly makes Utah special, the Utah way. We are starting to adopt policies that are regressive and don't take care of people. Utahns are one thing. Citizens are one thing. People is the first thing. This is why it matters so much. This is why I want so badly to get back to what I know, that Utah way is taking care of our neighbors, building a great economy, letting people have the dignity of work to be able to support their family. And with that speaker, I hope that you will not support the sub. Thank you.
25. Speaker (presiding)1:31:13
  Thank you, representative Wynn. Further discussion to the bill Representative Thurston.
26. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:31:20
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to circle.
27. Speaker (presiding)1:31:25
  Thank you, representative. That motion is in order. Uh, would you like to speak to that?
28. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:31:29
  Yes, I would. Oh, sorry. That's a substitute. Ocean Substitute motion to circle.
29. Speaker (presiding)1:31:34
  Thank you representative. Would you like to speak to that motion?
30. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:31:37
  I would. Um, I am looking at the section starting on line 4 61. I don't believe it does what the maker of the motion says it does. So I've been on the phone with the drafting attorneys to try to figure this out, and I don't think we're going to be able to come to an easy understanding of this anytime soon. And let me just explain what the question is. This says that a student shall be exempt from paying the non-resident portion of total tuition. In other words, they get to pay the in-state tuition unless they are a non-immigrant alien defined in US. Code section 1101, A 15, 11 0 1 A 15 does not define kids who have no status as non-immigrant aliens. That section talks about children of FH one b, J one, F1, ambassadors, kids, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't know what this substitute does. I can't figure it out. I can't figure it out if we are making it easier or harder for children who don't have legal status to get in-state tuition. And I think that is an important policy discussion, which is why I don't really like doing important policy discussions on the house floor on day 38. I would rather that we have time to do this right, with public comment in committees, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and so I would like to circle, so at least know what this does before we have to vote on it.
31. Speaker (presiding)1:33:15
  Thank you, Representative Thurston. Let's go to Representative Lee.
32. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:33:19
  The, uh, underline, uh, uh, with the underlying motion, uh, on the substitute motion to circle, Uh, no, I project that motion to circle it. I, I think that the statute is clear and we can still have some time to discuss this. There is a whole nother chamber as well, and a committee hearing that this will have, that We can go over this if there still are questions and concerns.
33. Speaker (presiding)1:33:43
  Okay. Representatives, if your light is on it is to speak to the motion to circle Representative MacPherson.
34. Rep. Matt MacPherson1:33:54
  Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am also just, maybe just as a clarification, I'm looking at that section of federal code and it is a, a section that defines these terms. So I, I think that the motion to circle is premature.
35. Speaker (presiding)1:34:19
  Thank you. Thank you Representative MacPherson. Further discussion to the motion to circle back to you Representative Thurston on your motion to circle.
36. Rep. Norman K Thurston1:34:31
  Yes. So I had lengthy discussion while discussion was going with the drafting attorneys. It's not clear to me, it's not clear to them. I don't know. There is a reasonable chance, colleagues that this bill makes it easier for undocumented kids to get instate tuition because we don't know what it really does. There's a reasonable chance that it makes harder for undocumented kids to get in state tuition because we don't really know what it does. So if you're gonna vote on this, this bill, you better figure out if we're not gonna circle it, you better figure out for yourself whether you're voting to make it easier or harder for those kids. I don't know, is it gonna make it easier or harder because of the way this is drafted. So that's why I wanna circle so I know what I am voting for. So thank you Mr. Speaker.
37. Speaker (presiding)1:35:13
  Thank you Representative Thurston. Uh, go ahead and place, uh, the motion, the substitute motion. The substitute motion is the house circle first substitute H or sorry, yes. The, the, the house. Sorry. Substitute motion is the house circle first substitute HP 3 86. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No, I rule that. Motion passes. The bill is division. Mr. Speaker division has been called if five or more will stand, we will be in division of five standing. We are in division. So, uh, let's, uh, chief clerk, if you'll open it up on the motion in division. So representatives, if you're voting yes, you're voting to circle. If you're voting no, you're voting to continue debate, all the house has been requested in her moral stand. We will be in, call the house. Okay, 10 or more have, we will be in a call. All the house has been lifted, voting is now closed. Substitute, uh, motion to circle fails. We will continue debate.
38. Speaker (presiding)1:40:46
  So on the underlining motion to adopt the second substitute. So if your light is on, it is on to speak on the motion to substitute. So let's go to representative gracious.
39. Rep. Stephanie Gricius1:41:06speaker not certain
  Thank you. I'd like to call the question, Previous question has been called, which has the effective ending debate on the motion to
40. Speaker (presiding)1:41:14
  adopt second substitute discussion to, well, let's go to Representative Lee on
41. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:41:19
  That. Well, thank you Mr. Speaker. And thank you, uh, to those who've discussed this, uh, debate on the substitute, uh, especially, um, some of the warm heartfelt stories that we, we heard. Um, I, I just wanna clarify that if, if you're a legal resident, this would not apply to you. And, and I believe the bill is very clear on that with this. And so it would not affect those who are coming and doing this the right way and trying to become American citizens. Uh, and so I would appreciate the support for this substitute. Thank you.
42. Speaker (presiding)1:41:49
  Thank you Representative Lee. Further discussion, or oh, no, no debate. Sorry. We'll place the motion. Uh, all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Well, that motion fails. We continued debate vision has been called a five moral stand. Okay, we are still in debate. Uh, or sorry, we'll go ahead and place the, we'll go to the, the board to vote. If you're voting yes, you are voting to end debate if or the other way around. I apologize, representatives, I'm gonna place the motion to adopt second substitute. Okay, let me do that again. I apologize. I I was incorrect. We're gonna place the motion to adopt second substitute on, uh, 3 86 HP 3 86 under Representative Lee's name, state your point, Representative Peterson.
43. Unknown speaker1:43:16speaker not certain
  I believe the motion was to call the question and that's what we should be voting on. It's a non debatable motion. And so we're voting On, I know, I I I made a mistake on that. I, we already, let me start over again.
44. Speaker (presiding)1:43:34
  Okay, representative gracious, will you Restate the motion? I would
45. Rep. Stephanie Gricius1:43:38speaker not certain
  like to move previous question.
46. Speaker (presiding)1:43:40
  Previous question has the effect of ending debate, which is non debatable. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? No. Will that Motion passes. We've ended debate. Let's go to Representative Lee for summation on the motion to adopt. Second substitute.
47. Speaker (presiding)1:43:54
  I'll wa on the sub. Okay, we'll now go ahead and place the motion. The motion before is the house adopt second substitute on HB 3 86. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Will that motion passes? Division has been called a five. Moral stand will be in division. Okay. We are in division. Sorry, representatives. The system's froze. We're just trying to get that figured out. Okay. We are in division. If you are voting yes, you're voting to adopt second substitute on 3 86. If everybody know you're voting to not adopt second substitute voting is now open. All the house has been called, uh, 10 or moral stand will be in call the house. Okay. Uh, 10 or more stood. So we are in a call the house for representative. All the house has been lifted. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? All that motion passes. Voting is now. Okay. Uh, second substitute. HB 3 86 has passed, uh, has passed, and now we're on the underlying bill, uh, discussion to the underlying bill with Representative Arthur.
48. Rep. John Arthur1:47:11
  Thank you Mr. Speaker. This bill is familiar to me. I remember back when I was studying to become a teacher and I was thinking about the students that I would be serving. Uh, I heard about in the news this idea that this law that had passed previously in about 2002, I believe, that allowed students who had come to Utah as undocumented kids who were brought here by their families with no choice in the matter themselves. They had been allowed in 2002 to go to our institutions of higher education with, in-state tuition, making it affordable for them to, to continue their education. And as I was preparing to enter public education as a school teacher, I heard about an effort to, to not only make it harder for them to go to higher education, but to make it so that they were no longer regarded in a lot of ways as Utahans. I, I myself moved here when I was eight years old. My father was a soldier. I was a shy Korean army brat. I was born at Fort Benning, Georgia, Mr. Speaker, and I was, I was brought here to, to Fort Douglas, Utah. And I don't know at what point I became a uan, but at some point I did. At some point I identified as a uan, not just as a resident, not as a citizen, but as a Utah. Utah. And now I stand in the, in the, this chamber as the representative for House District 41. And what this bill is going to do is the same thing it tried to do in the past. It's trying to take away that identification, that status as AAN to say that, Hey kid, let's remember who we're talking about here. We're talking about students who attended Utah High schools for at least three years. We're talking about Utah children who graduated from Utah high schools alongside their peers. When we talk about this bill now, after the substitute, we're talking about removing in-state tuition from kids who have lived in-state in many cases, most of if not their whole lives. As I've taught these kids for the last 13 years, I've been grateful for the fact that as my students leave sixth grade and I have invested my blood, sweat and tears to helping them read at grade level to helping them achieve at the highest levels of math and social studies, as we say, the Pledge of Allegiance every morning and we study our civics. I could always tell my students, Hey, don't worry when you go to the Salt Lake Community College, when you go to the University of Utah, when you go to any public university or college, you're gonna get to pay the amount that, that you can afford because it's gonna be in-state tuition. Because of course you're a resident. Of course you are a Utah. Utah. If we pass this bill today, colleagues, we will be telling these young people again who have graduated from our high schools, these kids who have gone to at least three years of, of school here, that you're no longer a Utah today. We passed a bill that would allow any student in ROTC to get in-state tuition because we recognize that there is value in that. And yet we are going to tell so many of the children that I serve today and that are right now making us proud in college, that you are no longer a utan, that you no longer deserve to pay what all the other Utahans pay to go to school here. My friends, in addition to that being in, in my mind, poor judgment, it's bad business. I've spent my, my professional life educating and uplifting these children. I've, I've given everything. My wife has given everything, every teacher in the state has given everything. But more importantly, we have invested countless dollars into their education K to 12. And now we're gonna squander that investment, Mr. Speaker, by not making it affordable for them to continue on to become the drivers of our workforce, the economic development that we need. We have the highest mobility, economic mobility in the country. Because as my, my dear colleague pointed out, Utah does so many things right? And one of those things is we leverage and we build on the brilliance and capacity of everybody in this state who we get to embrace as Utahans. We should not be cutting out any group of Utahans. We shouldn't be embracing and elevating all of us if we do that, if we choose policies as as they did over 20 years ago, as many in this body did just over 10 years ago and continue to make that good policy, our guiding star then Mr. Speaker, we will not only fulfill the dream that, that my mother had when she came to this country as, as so many of our parents had when they came to this great state. But we will be fulfilling the promise that we have made to these children. These children are often called dreamers. But I promise you Mr. Speaker, that if we continue to invest in them and help them be successful, they'll make all our dreams come true. Thank you.
49. Speaker (presiding)1:52:50
  Thank you Representative Arthur. Further discussion to the bill representative ch
50. Rep. Scott H. Chew1:52:55speaker not certain
  Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we forget sometimes to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants and we lump them all into the same category. There are a lot of people who have worked for years, waited for years, stood in line at embassies for years to get here and they have never been able to come. They were trying to do it the right way and they, they are not rewarded for that. I also think that there's a fallacy with the compassion. Um, the way we portray compassion. We, if we are compassionate to those who come the legal way and we are compassionate to those who already live here, that does not mean that we lack compassion for others in other ways. Um, I know of many people in Moldova, I know personally people who have wanted to come here for years. They are in a very dire situation in, in Moldova. And they can't get here because they, they can't cross a border to get here. We also have people on our DSPD waiting list who have been there for years for so long that they have gone from childhood to adulthood without the care that they need and without the respite for their parents. That is needed. If we have resources, they should be spent first on our own people who are here legally. Um, I encourage everyone to vote yes on this bill. And I call the question, okay, I don't call the question. You can do that in the party. You can do that. Wrong rules. Okay, that's fine. I just didn't know the rule. Thank you.
51. Speaker (presiding)1:54:38
  Thank you representative ch uh, Representative MacPherson Call. Previous question. Previous question has been called, which has the effect of ending debate. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Well, that motion passes debate has ended back to Representative Shepherd for summation.
52. Rep. Lisa Shepherd1:55:00
  Thank you Mr. Speaker, uh, body. You've adopted a second substitute, but I'd like you to remember in there that the beginning of this bill addresses laws that we do not have a legal authority to have. If we allow these laws to enact in July of 2027, we will be sued. It'll be the second time we get sued for having this guest worker programs. So I want you to remember that. Another thing I want you to know is that I have a neighbor, his name is Tino. Tino came here the legal way. Tino works his tail off. He's in construction. One day Tino said to me, I'm gonna have to move and I didn't know why and I asked him and he said, 'cause my employer, who he's always been getting really good pay from, said I don't have to pay you as much anymore. 'cause I have all these other people that aren't legal and I can pay them much lower wages. And Tino, that really hurt his family. He'd been my neighbor for a long time. Luckily we got to keep him. He started his own company and he's flourishing. He came here the right way. I have another friend named Arturo Arturo's married his wife is still in another country. He can't get her over here because our legal immigration is not fixed. Our federal delegation, our federal Congress will not fix it. It's too easy to not fix it and run on those things. I call on our federal government to fix legal immigration if you like. What we have that we are removing here in this bill house Bill 3 86, please take a look at it and adopt it. We've done it. Utah does great things. You can look at this. If it's what you want, federal government, please enact it because we cannot afford in our state of Utah to be funding everyone else before we're funding ourselves. Mr. Speaker, when I came here from Wisconsin many years ago, I wasn't a citizen. I was a citizen but I wasn't a resident and I had to wait for six months, get a driver's license and go through everything that I had to go through to be able to get in-state tuition. I was 18 years old, I was here all by myself. There's nobody paying for me to do anything. I had to do it. I'm considering what's happening to the other kids that are coming from other states. Are they paying in? Uh, do they get to pay in-state tuition but we're taking care of other country's children first and I want to take care of Utahans first. In my campaign, I ran and said Utahans first and this bill will put Utahans first I ask you for your support. Thank you.
53. Speaker (presiding)1:57:51
  Thank you. Representative voting will now be open on second substitute HB 3 86. All the house has been called uh, Tanner Moore stand. We will be in call the house. Okay, Tanner standing, we're in call the house, all the house has been lifted. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? That motion passes the call. The house has lifted. Voting is now closed. See now President having voted now voting is now closed. Second substitute HB 3 86 passes this body with 39 yeses and 33 no votes will be sent to the Senate for its consideration. Okay, uh, let's go to Madam Reading Clerk for a rules committee report.