H.B. 388 Public Health Hazard Amendments: transcript

Go Ahead. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair for putting this on the agenda and committee for all your hard work. This bill could also be called a decontamination bill, because that's what this is all about. It's about protecting the public when they are staying in a lodging retail establishment. And, uh, someone staying before them may have actually just used some meth or some fentanyl and, uh, it provides a decon, a contamination that is poisoning of the people. So there are a few things on here. The police officers will, I'll turn this over to the health department if they find, and they have reason to believe that the property is contaminated, and they have found that they, they have the contaminating drug or the paraphernalias been observed or an emission of use of the user. And it used and a test result. And it used to be that it was just for a lab, but we've added in use, and that's the main change here. Besides all of the reporting mechanisms that help with the lawmakers. I'm, I'm sorry, the, the, uh, I forgot what they're called now. The local health departments, uh, to help them to get, uh, the information they need to be able to, to test it and make sure that it's safe for the, for the consumers. Uh, once the public hazard has been decontaminated, then the property is ready for use and occupancy. Again, I have with me Provo police Officer. Ow. And he is going to tell us the reason why we need to do this and why this is a top priority of Provo City Police and the police chiefs of the state of Utah top

Thank you representative. Um, recently, this bill is for protecting the innocent lives, um, that are unbeknownst to them potentially being exposed to hazardous material. Recently I had an undercover, uh, detective come to me and advise me that a, that he Uintah a hotel recently and was talking to the manager about a separate crime. While there, the manager said that one of his maids was cleaning a room and suspected that the person in there was actually making meth there and or using it. Um, not only did the maid believe it, but the manager also believed it, uh, because they didn't want any retaliation from that person. They didn't report it, didn't say anything. Um, they let the person stay there one more day, and now the room is, was quote unquote clean by very good cleaners from the manager. Um, which means that it wasn't professionally cleaned, it was cleaned by maids and everything like that. Um, this policy or this amendment would protect not only the maids that are now being exposed to that hazardous material, but the people that are now gonna be staying in that room after, uh, the potential of the meth lab and or meth use.

Thank you. That's our presentation. We're open for questions if you need some.

Okay. I I had a question. Can we not already do this? So right now, the, my understanding of the law is that it, clandestine labs, um, what I am, I came to a pre representative Shepherd for is to include the language of use sites where we've, we've found that the use sites are actually gonna be more hazardous and have higher levels of that contamination than, uh, back in the past where we had labs.

So that, that's the biggest change, is that we're trying to add in the wordage of use, um, where there'd be use instead of not only labs. We can only currently do it with labs. And we met with several stakeholders about at least 20 of them several times, and then off one off some with some of them, some of the times. And this has been greatly vetted by many people. Uh, and there definitely is a need to have this legislation. That's why it was the top priority. And local health departments can't do this already on their own. So that, that was one of the issues that we're having it up to the local health departments, their policies and procedures that they do. By having it going statewide, it kind of helps level the playing field for all health departments, meaning Utah County will also start following that procedure as well.

Yeah, I'm just struggling. This feels like overhand overreach. I'm not sure what health departments, have they, has any health departments, have they been asking for this health, the local health departments?

The local health departments have actually been some of the problem. It's our, our own county where they would not go away and if it was just by use, and that is why they've asked for this legislation.

Thank you chair. Part of the bill is, it puts in place the requirement for the law enforcement to inform the health department currently that's not taking place. Is that, would that be fair or

Be So right now it's, Yeah, I'm just, go ahead. So right now, um, we, we've attempted to try to inform our health department of the use sites that we have. Um, the, the amount of labs is not as much as it used to be, uh, since it is mostly moved down to South. So, So what this will do is it'll elevate the, elevate the discussion and, and awareness across the state. Is that the idea?

Okay. Thank you. Well, it will also help us to have the system where we're able to report for use. And that's the problem is we couldn't do it for use. It had to be a Lab. I have another bite of Apple.

I'm still kinda struggling why we're doing this, but, okay.

Interesting. Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. I I have a, a couple of questions. I think in an area that I spend a fair amount of time thinking about, I can't fathom that every time there's a syringe found in a hotel room or a lodging, whatever that might be, that we would have the resources to dispatch out someone from a local health authority and then call that potentially a methamphetamine contaminated. Is that, is that how you're envisioning it? Because when I see paraphernalia, when you mention that paraphernalia is there, um, I, I know when I've been on outreach situations that there are entires lodging establishments that the whole place would have to be because a piece of paraphernalia was there. Like, I, I just, I I'm trying to, I'm struggling to see how we would possibly No even keep up With that.

As, as the bill is written right now, there are three, uh, triggers that would, that would possibly trigger this. One is the, the fi, the finding, the paraphernalia. Two would be the actual product, and three would be an admission that they use for us. We would have to have two of the three to conjoin together and then also a positive test. So we would be testing the, the paraphernalia, the product and everything like that to make sure that it is actual methamphetamine and or fentanyl.

I mean, And, and you're only targeting methamphetamine. You had mentioned fentanyl. Yes.

We've added fentanyl into the, into the definitions.

I gotta be honest, I think this is kooky. Really? Yeah, I do. I think this is crazy that, that such, to me, every overdose scene, every possible place where there would all of a sudden potentially be reported as a a, a drug contaminated property. I just, I think that the scope of this is colossal. I, I really do appreciate, I think the initial thought, but I don't, I don't see how this could, I just don't see numbers wise how this could play out.

No, no. I'm just trying to get clarified what you were Actually thinking. We like to pontificate and express ideas here in the Senate.

My name is Ann Atkin and I own, uh, meth mob decontamination specialists. We've decontaminated over 2000 houses in Utah and there are already, uh, several health departments that have enacted stricter regulations that cover use. So that is going on in Salt Lake County Health Department, Weber Morgan Health Department. So some of the health departments already acknowledged that that use is an issue. And this is a pretty small change to the already existing meth decontamination laws. And it's very limited. It's simply saying, because it, the Utah County Health Department, um, does not acknowledge use as part of the meth decontamination standard. So, so when, uh, Provo Police go into a, a motel that has had use, whether, um, whatever it is that is contaminating that, it's this change is basically to get some of the health departments involved in supporting the police going, yeah, we're gonna make sure it gets taken care of before it gets rented out again to the public. 'cause they just don't know it. So probably from a population standpoint, the majority of Utah is already acknowledging use. Our state standard doesn't acknowledge use, it acknowledges labs. So we're, we're putting this little piece in of use for lodging to help the, the police with the health department going, please don't rent these contaminated spaces to the public.

Ma'am, could I, sorry, question. What, what is, in your experience, what is, how do you determine use?

It is really difficult sometimes. Um, 'cause I don't see what the police do. Um, I, I look at decontamination test numbers and typically in my police activity houses, and they're a small percentage of, of the work I do, most of the work I do is in a real estate transaction. But when I get police activity, they are typically way higher in meth levels than, than than a real estate transaction. And I can tell you this, the police are there for a reason. They're not, they're not just going out knocking on motel doors. They're there generally for a search warrant. There's a reason why there's a search warrant. This isn't just to go in and start knocking on doors of motel rooms. It's saying, gosh, if the police have a reason to go there on a police warrant, and we know there's meth and that, and they're doing, uh, instant tests on there to show whether there's contamination or not. If there is, they're asking the health department to say, please, please get yourself involved in this. When, when they wouldn't normally

Thank you. And it's fairly easy. It's fairly, it's fairly easy then to determine with paraphernalia whether there's meth or non-math.

Is that correct? Okay. Yes, we have You have a test? Yes. So, so it's fairly straightforward. Yes. And I think there's a difference between a positive NI kit test, meaning that we'll test if there's actual, if the paraphernalia and or product that is there is actual meth, um, then that would be pushed onto the health department to inform the, uh, the owner of it. And then the owner would then need to go out and get a certified test saying if it's decontaminated or if it's contaminated or Not. So

I I don't, I'm going to eat this microphone. I, I certainly, you know, there is certainly a, a, a notion with, with the, the amount of drugs we have going on. Do you want to, do you want to feel it when you're ready to ruin it's safe, right? Yeah. And you wouldn't know otherwise. So thank you so much.

Chair. Senator Stratton, I Would like to move HB 3 88 public HA has health hazard amendments with favorable recommendation.

I would, I'm still struggling. Seems kind of like an overreach and it sounds like a, a statewide approach to a local problem.

Thank you. This absolutely is a statewide program a problem. And unfortunately the police chief's person, uh, is stuck in another meeting. He would let you know that, uh, they actually wanted us to go further in this bill. Uh, this bill was passed by 67 1, uh, and then some absences over in the house. They found this is a very credible need. It was unanimous in committee over there as well. Uh, this does provide that. They'll have, the local health department will then be responsible to determine if the property is there actually really contaminated. And then they'll follow the processes to make sure that it's cleaned up so it's safe for public health. Again, thank you.

Back to the making a motion. As I understand the, uh, process, it's fairly simple. Determine with a paraphernalia whether there's the drugs that are included in the legislation are available and, and, and are tracing. And once that tracing takes place, I think this puts in a system that's very, very helpful. We need to recognize as well that, uh, there's a greater sophistication in the production of this. And I like to stay in rural Utah a lot, so I wanna make sure it's, I wanna make sure those troops are healthy as long as along the Wasatch front. So thank you. Appreciate this consideration.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have Officer Kao and my constituent Ann Atkins from Meth Mob here to help present and answer any technical questions. This bill was brought to me by law enforcement, and it is critical to public health. It could also be named the decontamination bill. And actually it was once upon a time and it addresses a statewide problem. And the problem is, is that we have people who go into hotel rooms and stay unknowingly being contaminated from meth and fentanyl. And this bill addresses that. It addresses a part where you have use besides just doing a lab by use and a mission of use that the officers can go in and check it and then turn the information over to the local health departments. This bill is about people. It is about public safety. It is about ensuring that our public are not being contaminated and poisoned by these drugs or any other drugs that may come along in the future. This bill addresses, like I said, meth and, and fentanyl. And we have, uh, we require a test result in order for, for them to close that room down. And once upon a time, You couldn't shut those down for use. And that's what this bill will take care of. It'll close that little loophole that we need. We've had over four meetings with 20 different stakeholders, and I've had additional meetings with some of the stakeholders, and we've come to a place where we all agree, at least, unless there's someone that's changed their mind. And I would like to turn the time over right now to Officer au so that he may just quickly tell you why we needed this bill.

Thank you very much. Um, officer Calwell via Calwell with the Provo Police Department. I've been a police officer for coming up on seven years. Um, one of the reasons why I believe we need this is there have been multiple times I've been to responded to hotels, have, uh, watched drug deals, um, and arrested people out of rooms that have meth contamination, such as they were using meth in the room. We had paraphernalia in there and we had product in the rooms. Um, the next day I watched as kids ran in that same parking lot, um, unknowingly, unbeknownst to them that just the day before they, we had just arrested someone from the next room. Um, weeks later, I've, I'll see people in that exact same room. Um, I'm not even sure that they were advised that there was arrests there or what potential hazards they would come in, they were gonna be exposed to. Um, but these are things that are happening all the time. And I, we see it day in, day out of innocent lives, being exposed to hazardous material just because, um, we, we don't have a way to, to be able to let the health department know and have them help us with this as, as of right now, it's just clandestine lab tours, not including use. So

Thank you. I'd also like to turn the time over, if I may, to Ann Atkin and she can tell us the effects and, and the contaminants and how long they can stay in the property.

Thank you. Uh, my name is Ann Atkin. I own meth mob decontamination specialists. Um, I've been, I've owned it for 10 years. We've been, we've decontaminated over 2000 houses during that time in Utah. Um, what we found is that the, the meth contamination from use today is even higher than the meth labs that we were cleaning up 20 years ago, simply because the, the meth is so much pure now than it was. And, and this is, is kind of designed to, to fix a little bit of a absence in, in our state decontamination standard right now where it says, um, lab contamination. And, and we just don't see a lot of cooking of meth in Utah right now, or, or our lodging is, is being contaminated by use. And, and so what it does is it, it helps out by defining use, not just labs, because some of the health departments, uh, do not respond to contamination issues unless it's a lab, because it specifically states that in the law. So it'll just, it'll just change it a little bit to go from, from a meth lab to contamination, whether it comes from a lab or meth use.

Uh, yes, thank you. I'm a former customer of yours. Sorry, several times more than I would've liked. No, no dig on your service. It was great. But, uh, I, I think this is an important bill. One concern I have are the thresholds. I just wonder if you can comment if the thresholds are currently, how scientifically based they are in terms of when a cleanup is gonna be required. I mean, I don't want anybody getting sick that I kind of asked some of these questions and I couldn't really get good answers when I was having to deal with this issue.

I might be the same. I don't have great answers. I'm, I'm trusting the health officials that, 'cause this isn't looking at change in the standard. It, um, Yeah, I, I agree. I see something from the state here. They might be able to answer that later. Um, I, this will create potentially thousands of more cleanups. So I just figured it's a good time to ask about the threshold. So in, in this case, it might be tricky. This, this law only deals with lodging. It's not about them, uh, reporting every meth property that they go to individual houses. So, I don't know, maybe there is thousands of motel and hotel rooms, but, but this isn't gonna, this doesn't cover, um, private housing. It's simply a lodging one, two, help the police. So I'm, I'm with you. And if I had my way, it would be more, but this will just help the police.

Um, just along those same lines, what, what does it take to clean a room? Like what, what would that entail?

It's basically scrubbing every inch of ceiling, wall floor, the cupboards, the drawers. Uh, it, it would be any furniture that was in there that's not permeable. We can't do anything with mattresses or curtains, blinds. Um, so any hard surfaces, if a, if a motel room had carpet and pad in it, those would be disposed of. So our standard now says, um, permeable has to be disposed of. So it's just really scrubbing with a good surfactant and oxidizer and then testing it with the health department after to make sure we've gotten it.

So are the, are the surfaces that you're cleaning, are they tested first to see if there is residue there or is it just like, oh, there's a, an arrest made there and there was paraphernalia, so we're just gonna scrub everything? I think maybe that's what,

Yeah. And for this one where it's dealing with the police departments, only some of the local health departments have enacted additional regulations besides just the state one. So, so this is gonna kind of move up some of the health departments that aren't under any additional regulations to go Yeah, if the, if the police are there and they see evidence of meth and, and they basically do a, uh, instant onsite field test. And that happens in like Salt Lake County Health Department or Weber Morgan. So, so the police, the way I understand it is the police department would be required in this, and it tells what they have to do. They have to observe it, see it, have somebody admit to it, and then a positive field test. And, and if that is positive with those other things, that kind of gives us two good reasons that, that we think it's going to be, and our standard now allows for if, if that lodging owner doesn't believe that it's there, they can still have a certified decontamination specialist come in and do that clearance testing before decontamination. Typically, what I've seen on police activity, um, the police are there for a reason. It's, it's generally there.

I don't recall if I introduced Ann Atkins, that she's the owner of Meth Mob and has done 10 years worth of this. As you heard about the 10 years part of it. I did want to just, I guess I'll leave it in case there's any of those agencies that are here, but several acronym agencies, we've met with them and gotten the clearance from them. Also, as far as the, the word I'm looking for is the contaminant levels. That is actually by rule. And there's just a couple little technical things there. I just wanted to make sure that you understood was that we're moving, we're moving a couple codes, but just over into another area. And apparently I don't have that paper right in front of me. I just wanted to make sure you knew that that's at the bottom of page three on the bill analysis that was passed out. And so those are just some technical things. It's not gonna change anything, but I just wanted to make sure you knew that that was happening in there. And that will conclude our presentation.

Thank you. My name is Kate Clo and I'm with the Utah Association of Realtors. Um, and I just wanna express our gratitude for the sponsor of the bill and for the chance to be included in the conversations and for all of the hard work. We appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm Brad Bishop. I'm the chief of the Payson City Police Department, also the President of the Utah Chief Association. I just wanna speak in support of this bill. Um, thank the good sponsor for bringing that forward. It's been a long time coming, uh, for collaboration between the law enforcement community and the health department. And, uh, we do see a little bit of this in our hotel rooms, and it is, it is something that needs to be done to protect the public. So that, again, just wanna offer our support for this bill. So thank you.

Okay, I would like to move that we move forward HB 3 88 with a favorable recommendation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This bill is an important bill to protect the public on issues of contaminants, of meth, of methamphetamines and fentanyl being left in lodging, retail establishments for the unsuspecting public who have come in there and rent a room after someone who has used or if there's been a lab. This bill has, has been about that. We need to make sure that police have the right tools to be able to take care of these situations. We have excessive problems across the state. I have met with, with the Department of Health, department of, uh, law, local law enforcement, DEQ, uh, law enforcement. Uh, I've met with a, I feel like about every agency possible on this. Bill had several meetings. We came to what this bill is, which is a consensus. So if you take a look at this bill, it is really about adding the emission of use. And so if a person adds, if a per, if a, if they suspect that there is contamination and a person admits that they used it there, then they're gonna be able to go in and talk to the health department. They can test it and just make sure that it's not contaminated or if it is contaminated, and make sure it gets cleaned before it goes back to the public use. Basically. That's this bill.

I'll waive. Thank you. Summation