H.B. 401 Geothermal Study Amendments: transcript

Heavy chair. Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, this is a, uh, a good bill, as we say on our side of the capitol. Had a bad one, right? No. Well, no. Try not to. So, uh, this is a geothermal study and what it does is it directs the Office of Energy Development to conduct a study to examine the feasibility of developing geothermal energy facilities, um, at or near existing coal powered electrical generation facilities. And it reports them, it requires them to report to, um, the Public Utilities Energy and Technology Interim committee. Uh, they, or to report, uh, to publish it on their website. It has an end date. And, um, it, it, it on the lines, uh, 50 through 56. It says, an assessment of subsurface temperatures, potential electricity production, infrastructure stability, estimated capital costs, economic and job impacts. And, uh, what we are doing is just seeing if it's, if it's there and if it's not, it'll be published and we'll be done. So, and we will not be doing this at where the IPP Power plant is, because we have the salt salt caverns over there, and we're not gonna be messing with anything over there. That's the bill. Thank you to the committee. Senator Winterton?

Yes. I really like the bill. It makes sense. A lot of people think, well, what are you doing? But, you know, we already have infrastructure there. We could save a lot of time and money for right of ways in that if we should find geothermal there. So I, I really like the forethought of, of let's investigate whether or not that's doable.

Senator Winterton, I had make the motion that we favorably recommend House Bill 4 0 1 out favorably.

Um, just wanna say thank you. I think this is, um, you know, we have lots of geothermal potential here, but really being able to think about putting it where we already have, uh, the infrastructure transmission lines, all those things. That makes great sense. So, thank you.

I'll waive. Senator Waive All in favor?

Thank you Mr. Vice Chair. Ms. Um, pretty simple. Bill. We're just curious. Uh, we'd like to know if, um, in any of the currently operating coal, coal powered, uh, power plants or any that are, have been, uh, decommissioned, but they're still there, if there's a possibility that there might be a geothermal energy there that could be used. Now this, for this bill, uh, we are not asking the holes be drilled and all that kind of really super expensive stuff. We just want, um, to, um, have the office of, make sure I say this right, energy development work with the Utah Geological Survey, just to conduct a sur uh, study to examine that, the feasibility of developing geothermal energy facilities and, uh, to see if it's there. So, and, and so we're just trying, it's kind of a very low level, but kinda smart way to look at, to see if there's anything there. So in the bill it talks about, uh, see if there's, get an assessment of sub-service temperatures, steam quality, uh, potential electricity production, infrastructure, suitability, uh, capital estimated capital costs, economic and job. Um, IM impacts, this is not to replace anything that's already being done, uh, such as in my area. We have power plants that are working just fine and we want 'em to keep doing that. This is just to see if, if, uh, down the road, uh, that's sort of something that we could do if things, uh, change in our energy world. And, um, they have until this will Sunset, uh, December 31st of 20, uh, 20, see six, seven. And so it's, we, we don't expect it to be something that goes on forever and ever. It's just to give us a little bit of information and they would report back to the, uh, this, this committee, uh, regarding the status of the information they find out. And that's my presentation.

Thank you Mr. Vice Chair. So I just wanted to make sure that I completely understood. You are saying that in areas where there's decommissioned coal power, power plants Or working, Oh, they might even be working. Yes. Okay. So is the idea behind this then that if they could get geothermal going in the same area, in a safe place, if they were to do the study and figure that out, that then they would be using some of the same mechanisms that are with that power?

Only if it needed to replace, uh, the coal power plant. If it, if things, if it was shut down for whatever reason, this is not to coexist. This is just to see if it's there. If it's something that's feasible down the road.

Okay. May I ask one more question? Please?

Yes, go ahead. Thank You.

So, um, is there any danger at all? 'cause I'm very, you know, pro coal anyway, is there any danger at all of us doing this study, making a case for putting geothermal there that could potentially in the future say, well, we already can have geothermal here, so now we can get rid of the coal. Is there gonna be any kind of that, do you think?

We're not looking ob obviously that's where I live. We're not looking for that. Okay. We just wanna know if it's There. I just don't wanna make a bed that You don't No, because, um, our power plants are doing really well. Um, coal is still available. We, but is as in Carbon County, we're not mining coal anymore because we pretty well got all the easy, inexpensive coal, uh, mine out of our minds. And so we don't do coal anymore, but they do like in Emery County and or in Sanpete and stuff. So this has nothing to do with replacing anything, uh, in any near future. It's just kind of see, checking out where we have possibilities. We know how we have VO coming online this spring and they have spent a lot, well, I don't, they didn't even start out doing it. It was probably other count companies. Um, but there's been a lot of time and, uh, and money spent on that geothermal. So this is just to kind of give us a heads up, is, is this even feasible?

Is it, is it even there? Mm-hmm. We don't, we don't Know. Okay. That was just my, maybe just like my little caution. I would hate for it to options. I like one of those on my computer too, so. Yeah. Well, I would love, I love the options. I just hope that we don't go down a road that then later somebody uses it against us. 'cause we did a study, you know, or something. Anyway, it was just, well, I wouldn't Be here at that time, but I would hope somebody would be here that would fight. Like I would, We'll chase him down. Okay. Sounds good.

Yes. Thank you so much, much. And, um, thank you for this bill. I think it's in the moving in the right direction. My father has worked in those mines and in price. I don't know if I've ever said that, but it is, it is definitely an opportunity for us to see what other extractions can come from an area that we've already, um, have open. So this is a great opportunity for your district and, and to see where it can go in other areas and help rebuild community. Thank you. Thank You. Alright, thank you. Um, I have one question. I'm not seeing others. Any others from members of the committee? Uh, I don't see anywhere in here where it adds any type of full-time employee, but just wanna make sure that's not your intent No. To eventually grow that department. Okay. No. Great.

Hello, my name is Jake Garfield. I'm the Deputy Director for the Utah Office of Energy Development. We wanna thank Representative Watkins for bringing this bill forward, uh, in our office. We're so excited about the potential for geothermal development in the state and think this bill makes a lot of sense. Um, just to answer, uh, representative Peck's question, we do not, we, because of, uh, the growing demands for electricity in the country due to AI and other things, we think there's certainly, uh, room for both geothermal power and coal power in Utah. We certainly don't wanna do anything that'll harm our coal industry, but think it makes a lot of sense to, uh, study more of the potential for geothermal energy in the state. Uh, we look forward to working with our partners at the Utah Geological Survey on doing a study like this. Uh, I don't think this is something that we can, uh, fully just absorb with our existing, uh, capabilities, but, uh, but it's certainly not something that we're looking like a, a full an an ft like for a long term thing. Um, so happy to continue working with Representative Watkins and making this reality. Thank you.

Well, I, I am here this time. Um, We can hear you now. Sorry, go ahead. Good. Disconnected me. All right. So, um, I'd like to thank Representative Watkins

Oh, I'm Joan Ann Smith. I'm speaking on behalf of myself and I would like to thank Representative Watkins for presenting this bill. I think geothermal, um, has the potential for providing, uh, energy that's going to be clean, uh, and everything that we want from our electric power. So, um, and I just would like to point out that I am in favor of something since seems that, that's often the response to my comments that I'm not in favor of anything anyway. So thank you very much for allowing me to speak today.

Thank you. I move that we favorably pass. HB 4 0 1 doesn't have an amendment or a cyber. Yep. No, as is.

Um, I, not much, but just to say that because of this, I started doing lots of research into geothermal and I was really grateful for that. Thanks.

I'll, I'll waive. Alright.

Waive. Thank

Representative Watkins, uh, Thank you Mr. Speaker approach. Am that one kind of stuck upon me? I apologize. Uh, Mr. Pro, speaker ProAm, I'd like to make a motion to move amendment number one in my name.

Yes. Uh, the geological survey people asked that, that we just take out steam quality. It was not appropriate for the bill.

I'll waive, I'll place the mo I'll place a motion to adopt amendment number one.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro Tem, uh, Mr. Speaker Pro Tem. This bill directs the Office of Energy Development to conduct a study to examine the FI feasibility of having geothermal power pump, uh, a power facility anywhere where we have, uh, power plants right now. And it's just a feasibility. Is it something that we can do? Uh, we are also looking at, uh, nuclear power, something that we could put where a power plant is, uh, down the road when these power plants are, uh, no longer, um, uh, in operation. So it's, it's not an expensive thing. We made sure that they're not drilling holes in the ground, they are just using the information that they already have studying it, and then they'll come back and report to us if there is any feasibility, uh, for these geothermal, uh, facilities to be done. Um, pretty simple. That's my presentation. Mr. Speaker ProAm.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker ProAm with the sponsor yield to a series of questions. Will the Sponsor yield to a series of questions?

Yes, I will. Go ahead.

So, uh, uh, first question is, doesn't the Office of Energy Development do this kind of thing already? No, they don't. Um, well, I'm tempted to ask them what, no, uh, the next question is, uh, question why, why does the government want to get involved in that kind of study? Wouldn't that be the private, uh, e energy producers that would do that?

Well, we already have, uh, a company VO that's gonna be coming online, uh, this spring, and we're really excited about that. And for not a lot of money, we can research certain areas and see if they even are feasible, because if they're not, then why waste anyone else's money? Uh, and time to see if this is something that could happen down the road.

Okay, thanks. I just, I just thought that would be the energy company's responsibility to do their due diligence like that and, and investigate. So I'm not not sure why, uh, why the government is getting in involved in that. You can answer that if you'd like.

Can I answer that? Hey, yes. Uh, well, with the government's already involved in all of these, we've had a ton of government money go into, uh, the geothermal, uh, plant that we have coming online soon. And so this certainly having government involved is, is not new. Uh, but what we're trying to do is, um, make sure that we're not wasting any more money down the road to see if any of these things are feasible.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm. This is just a, a simple way of using information that is, is available and putting it together in, uh, in one place and making sure that we know as legislators that this is something that is feasible or no, it's not. Let's just table it, leave it alone, make sure industry knows that it's not, and, um, look at other sources. Thank you, Mr. Speaker Pro tem.

Uh, thank you Mr. President Prote. Uh, in Utah we're very fortunate to have, uh, a lot of natural resources and one of the main ones that we have is, uh, hot water under our surface of the land, the geothermals. And this bill creates a study. Uh, we were very lucky to have, uh, geothermal and other natural resources that we have. But what this bill does is to try to find, uh, these, uh, resources under areas that we can actually, uh, near coal fired power plants or gas fired power plants so that we can use the, uh, infrastructure that's already in place. The power lines transmit transformers and the transmission that's available for that. And so what this does is try to find, uh, geothermal resources near infrastructure that's already in place. And so that concludes my presentation. I'm open to questions.

Senator Wilson. Motion To circle sponsors off the floor.

of Energy Development to conduct a study, a feasibility study to do geothermal energy facilities near existing coal fired power plants. And for the reason for that is that the infrastructure for the power lines and the substations are already there. And we have, uh, a base load, uh, energy with the geothermal. We have the units at the Glendale plant in Beaver County that's been operational for 60 or 70 years down there. And so it's a, a good clean energy and so we would, uh, would be able to use the existing infrastructure. And with that I'm open to questions. Thank you. Senator Hinkins.

Does there need to be, I'm looking to see if there's any amendment on this. I see. Uh, it's red. I just didn't know if there needed to be There. Could be because there the money was gonna come out of, uh, general funds. Now it's gonna come out of the department of, uh, First sub. What is that move? Okay. So I would ask that we, uh, delete title and body house bill 4 0 1 and replace first substitute. I don't see anything online. So is there a one on, am I looking at the right Bill? I don't see it there, but, uh, do you want Me to, so why don't we circle this one and make sure move to circle.

Thank you President. We, we read this on second, second reading already once and, and so it's come back. But this bill expands the definition of Recit. Oh no, lemme look at the right bill. Okay. So Utah's office of the legislative auditor general conduct conducted an

I talked about it earlier today, uh, was, uh, to do a, uh, an expiration, uh, for, first I need to substitute the bill. I better substitute it first. Uh, I'd like to delete Title and Body House bill 4 0 1 and replace it with First substitute House bill 4 0 1.

Thank you. Uh, this changes, uh, the bill to Utah State University to conduct a study on geological and environmental impacts on geothermal energy development in the state of Utah requires Utah State University to report findings to the Public Utilities Energy and Technology Committee.

And with that, I'm open to questions

Senator Mikel. Thank you. I was getting some thumbs up, so that's good.

Thank you Mr. Speaker motion to concur with the Senate amendments.

Yes. This, uh, bill will be a little bit different now. It now directs Utah State University, uh, to conduct a study on the geological and environmental impacts of geothermal energy development in the state, including an examination of seismic safety and the impacts of different development techniques. It will also specifically examine impacts at or near coal powered electrical generation facility sites. And that is the change.