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H.B. 478 Residential Rental Modifications: transcript

Everything said about this bill in committee and on the floor, speaker by speaker. Each time links to that moment in the official video. Back to the bill: summary and every vote →

Transcribed from the Legislature's recordings by software, with speakers identified from the video; it can contain errors. Check the recording before quoting anyone.

House Business, Labor, and Commerce Committee, Feb 24, 2026

Chair Maloy (presiding)1:03:35
We'll, we will take this to, uh, our third item on the agenda house Bill 4 78 residential rental modifications present. Arthur, Let's see here.
Rep. John Arthur1:03:50
Is that on? Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. He Likes this committee. I do. It's, it's an honor to be back and I, I promise I'll keep this brief. HB 4 78, I'll be speaking on the first sub. This is a, a bill that you're familiar with because it has come back to this committee before. And I, I am excited to be the person who now gets to pick up the baton. This bill establishes a 60 day notice requirement. Uh, before an increase in monthly rent can be applied for tenants in a lease agreement. Uh, it has a very narrow scope. It only applies to owners of renters who are in a lease agreement and only if the owner wants to increase the rent. Um, applying that to the next signing of the agreement. And with that, I'll end my presentation.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:04:35
Okay. Thank you. We'll, uh, take you to the committee for clarifying questions. Seeing none, we'll take it to, oh, pardon me, Representative Ivory.
Rep. Ken Ivory1:04:49
Thank you. So if the agreement already specifies that the rent would be increased at certain intervals, is that okay?
Rep. John Arthur1:04:57
According to this? Yeah. Under this bill, leases and rental agreements are honored. It's just before, uh, a new increase in rent could be applied. There would need to be a 60 day notice to the, to the tenant.
Rep. Ken Ivory1:05:11
But, but my question is, so there's a lease agreement mm-hmm. That says the rent will be increased by a certain amount every year. Does that satisfy the 60 day requirement?
Rep. John Arthur1:05:23
Yeah. According to your bill.
Rep. Ken Ivory1:05:25
So on line 1 38, nothing in the subsection nine prevents an owner from increasing the amount the renter pays for any cost fee assessment or final allowed under the rental agreement, including an automatic increase to a cost fee assessment or a fine provided in the rental agreement.
Rep. John Arthur1:05:39
This bill just says that as you approach the end of that, the, the term of the lease, within 60 days of that end, uh, the, the, uh, owner would need to inform the renter of an increase in, in rent coming up with the next agreement. And, you know, this is, this is a, a best practice used by, by many owners currently. And we just want to establish a foundation that this is, this is standard practice in, in code. And many, uh, states are starting to lean this way. Uh, Nevada has implemented this. New York, Georgia, Delaware states are, are coming to this 60 day, um, number.
Rep. Ken Ivory1:06:21
But, but if I may, Mr. Chair, last question. So if the landlords all just change their rental agreements to have an automatic increase, then this bill would only affect those that weren't aware of having that provision in their lease agreement. Is that the way this would play out?
Rep. John Arthur1:06:39
So as I, as I come into this work and into this space, I, I've been heartened speaking with, with owners as well as renters and recognizing that there most everybody is a good actor looking to just do. Right. Right. What this is just saying is that if you are a renter in the state of Utah, you can count on the fact that your rent will not be increased if you're within, if you're in a lease, it cannot be increased within that lease without a 60 day notice, uh, applied at the end of that lease. Does that make sense? Or a prior provision allows For an automatic increase, or if increase had already, if you had already reached a, a prior agreement, uh, that that would still be honored.
Rep. Ken Ivory1:07:23
Okay. So, as I understand it, this is just telling all the landlords to go out and change their agreements. It's establishing a, a floor for, for an understanding in agreements going forward.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:07:35
Okay. Alright. Okay. Thank you Representative Thurston.
Rep. Norman K Thurston1:07:40
I think I have two questions if I may, Mr. Chair. So the first one is, um, so this 60 day provision would apply to not all types of lease arrangements. What types would it apply to and what types would it not apply to?
Rep. John Arthur1:07:52
Right. So I appreciate that question very much. In the, in the bill it lists that, um, uh, the increase in the monthly rental amount is in response, uh, I'm sorry, lemme just see here. Uh, yep. It takes effect unless the renter on a month to month basis, or the increase in the monthly rental amount is in response to an increase in maximum rent allowed in a low income tax credit community or housing subject to sub, uh, section eight.
Rep. Norman K Thurston1:08:20
So if it was student housing, sorry, I'm gonna actually have three questions now. Sorry. Uh, so if it was student housing, it would, were there, there basically semester four month contracts, it would apply to those, but if it's month to month, it would not apply to those?
Rep. John Arthur1:08:35
Correct. Okay.
Rep. Norman K Thurston1:08:37
And then the other question is, um, I forgot. I'm good. It's not that important. You have a 60 day notice to come up with that question again. Alright, there we go. Chairman. A uh, quick question. Uh, so we're changing it to 60 days. What's the current policy now?
Rep. John Arthur1:08:53
Currently there is not for, for this length of lease, any sort of notification requirement beyond like the 15 day, that's standard, I believe, for, for, um, for a month to month, uh, agreement. But please correct me if I'm wrong. And, and there will be, uh, folks speaking during the public comment who will know better than I do as well.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:09:14
Thank you. Uh, Representative Dunnigan.
Rep. James A. Dunnigan1:09:18
Oh, thank you, Mr. Chair. So if you have a, a lease with an escalation clause, so you have a one year lease mm-hmm. And it renews and you have an agreement that it's gonna go up 20%, what happens?
Rep. John Arthur1:09:31
I, as I understand it again, this, uh, nothing in this section prevents an owner from increasing the amount the renter pays, uh, under the rental agreement, including amount increase, um, provided in the rental agreement. So if that increase is already included in the rental agreement that you have signed, then, then that's just part of the agreement. Where were you reading? Uh, I apologize. Sub one line 1 38.
Rep. James A. Dunnigan1:10:02
Okay. But it goes on to say, including automatic increase in a cost fee assessment, it doesn't say rent. Does cost mean rent
Rep. John Arthur1:10:14
As I, it's all included within the rental agreement. So I would, I would take that as cost, but, um, again, correct me if I'm wrong.
Rep. James A. Dunnigan1:10:28
Okay. And if you have a one year lease, if the, under this bill, if the landlord doesn't give a 60 day notice, then the lease would expire and you could do a new lease, but you would not, you'd have to wait 60 days before you increase that rent, is that right?
Rep. John Arthur1:10:45
That is right. So you would move to a month to month rent our agreement until 60 days had been fulfilled, at which point the, the rent could go up.
Rep. James A. Dunnigan1:10:56
So when it goes month to month, could you increase it at that time on the first month? Yeah.
Rep. John Arthur1:11:00
Well, again, within like the, the 60 day window. Right.
Rep. James A. Dunnigan1:11:04
So if I, if I have a, a lease that is coming to an end, uh, March 1st and I go to a month to month, the, the next increase in that, that rental amount would be, um, May 1st I believe, or 60 days thereafter the, the end of our current lease. You could go month to month and give a 15 day notice. Is that right?
Rep. John Arthur1:11:30
Hmm. That's a good question.
Rep. James A. Dunnigan1:11:32
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:11:34
Thank you, Representative Roberts.
Rep. Calvin Roberts1:11:37
My question is, uh, similar to Representative Dunnigan, I just wanna make, if I'm a landlord and I wanna put in my contract or my lease that I reserve the right to raise your rent up to 20% on my discretion, would that be disallowed by this?
Rep. John Arthur1:11:54
I don't believe so, because when we are you saying raise the rent 20%, at what point,
Rep. Calvin Roberts1:11:59
I'm just saying I reserve the option as the landlord to raise your rent up to 20%, and I just, just at, and I'm gonna put that in my contract. It's a provision, the lease ends and I say a week before it ends. Well, I, I told you I reserved the right to raise it up to 20%. I'm gonna raise it five. Would I be able to do that?
Rep. John Arthur1:12:20
You know what, these honestly, these hypotheticals I find incredibly informative because as I've had these conversations, I, I honestly don't know the exact answer. But as we enter into these conversations, understanding that, that for the, for the most part, by and large, folks are not trying to trick one another. Right. Owners and, and tenants, they're trying to achieve a relationship that is, that is built on trust and also an understanding that you're not gonna try to pull the rug out from under me, and I'm not gonna try and dip out on you. Right. And, and it's fairly standard within the lease agreement to have a 60 day, um, notice before vacating. Right. We're just saying the, the, the equal footing of that would be a 60 day notice before raising the rent.
Rep. Calvin Roberts1:13:06
No, I, I appreciate what you're trying to do. What I, what I'm trying to get at is just mm-hmm. You know, whether or not it's the right practice or a good practice, it seems like it'd be fairly easy to just create a provision to get around it. Mm-hmm. Um, and look, I think at the end of the day, there are reasons, market reasons why somebody might not be able to alert their tenant of an increase 60 days, whereas they could over 30 days. So I just, when you try to prescribe in law what you should do in contract mm-hmm. It can just get difficult. But thank you.
Rep. John Arthur1:13:37
And Mr. Chair, vice chair, if I may respond to that. One of the things that honestly, as I've, as I've come before this body to, to present this idea, this, this has been presented before. And as I've gone back and I've watched the, the, the questions that were put to the, to the previous sponsors of this bill, one of the things that, that was abundantly clear to me is that the, the best, uh, way at Blanding at a policy that, that can answer all these questions, is to do so in, in a, a thoughtful way that brings us together, um, as many parties as possible. So for me personally, as the sponsor now of this legislation, um, I, I would not mind at all if this was referred to interim study held and, and allowed us the opportunity to bring together, uh, the folks who can, uh, arrive at the right policy and answer those questions.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:14:34
Great. Uh, Mr. Vice chair, I'd like to make a motion that we move on to the next agenda based on what the sponsor just said.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:14:43
Okay. Should We do public comment first? This is a head of public comment. Right. Okay. That's in order, uh, motions that we move on to the next item Agenda. All in favor say aye or
Rep. Jordan D. Teuscher1:15:00speaker not certain
That's an adverse action. Oh, Yep. You're
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:15:05
okay? Yep. We'll go to the sponsor.
Rep. John Arthur1:15:09
Absolutely. And I, I, I appreciate where the chair is coming from. Um, ideally I would love to hear from the public on this just to hear what other ideas may be floating out here and then, um, possibly give the opportunity for a, a different motion.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:15:24
Okay. And then we'll, we'll, we'll take it to the committee as well. Mm-hmm. Any discussion to the motion Representative? Teuscher?
Rep. Jordan D. Teuscher1:15:34
Yeah. Thank you. I, I don't know if there's members of the public that are here to speak to this, but I would hate if they came all the way here and didn't get a chance to speak. So I, I would vote against the motion.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:15:45
Okay. Then to the, um, to the sponsor.
Rep. John Arthur1:15:50
Uh, I'll waive. Thank you. Okay.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:15:53
And, uh, to the maker of the motion, I'll waive. Okay. Okay. The motion is that we move to the next item on the agenda. Let's do a roll call. Vote Representatives. Ballard? No. Burton? No. Dunnigan, no. Ivory? Yes. Matthews? No. When? No. Roberts Yes. Sawyer? No. Er, no. Thurston, no. White, no. Wilcox, no. Chair. Malloy? Yes. Chair. Kyle? No. Okay. That fells, um, three to 11 with representatives. Ivory Robertson Malloy as yeses. Okay. We'll go back.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:16:48
We're in the, uh, clarifying questions. Is anybody else in the, in the committee that would like to, uh, as a clarifying question or discussion? Okay. We'll take it. Who here from the public would like to speak to this? Okay. We have three. Um, go ahead and do we have any in line two on, we have three in po. Looks like we have three in public, two online. We're gonna go with 92nd, uh, 90 seconds for, for each. Um, and, uh, go ahead and state your name, who you represent, and if you're on line when we get to you, make sure to state your location. Go ahead.
Justin Allen, Government Affairs Director, Rental Housing Association1:17:28
Hi, uh, Justin Allen with the Rental Housing Association, and we'll be brief, given that you have other many agenda items here. Um, we, uh, we appreciate having some conversations with Representative Arthur. And, um, this has been before you the last few years. Our position, uh, continues to be that we, uh, like having the flexibility, our members, like having the flexibility to be able to do this by contract. Uh, it ranges from anywhere from 15 days up to 60 in some cases. Uh, there are about 125,000 single family homes that are for rent in Utah. Many of those are managed and owned by, uh, mom, mom and pop landlords. And, um, they do like to have the flexibility to be able to make a decision with their property. Sometimes in a time that is shorter than that 60 days could be any number of things. Renovation, a family member wants to rent the property, a lot of things that could, could come up. So we do, we do prefer that these types of things are handled by contract. Um, but we do also, um, want to have a good dialogue with Representative Arthur. Um, and we anticipate that we'll be discussing other issues with the housing coalition, our friends there and Representative Arthur. And so happy to have those conversations for sure. But, um, we would, uh, oppose this bill as currently written. Thank you.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:18:47
Thank you. It looks like we might have a, a question from Representative Thurston is that
Rep. Norman K Thurston1:18:52
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just, uh, uh, under what circumstance would a landlord not be able to notify? I, I'm like, I'm assuming that mom and pop means maybe they forgot or there's some sort of, uh, unintentional thing, but if, if everybody knows the rules, if this is the big boys, is there a circumstance under which they would not be able to comply with a 60 day requirement?
Justin Allen, Government Affairs Director, Rental Housing Association1:19:15
Here again, I think that there is just a desire to have some of that flexibility as the property owner. Um, I know we do have a couple of people online who are very experienced at dealing with some of these contracts and some of these things, and maybe they can answer some of those technical questions as well. Great.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:19:28
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead. Hi. Introduce yourself and let us know if you represent anyone.
Zoe Newmann, project manager, Utah Housing Coalition1:19:37
No, of course. Hi, my name is, uh, Zoe Newman, and I'm with the Utah Housing Coalition. And hb, uh, 4 78 basically just provides tenants the ability to take control of their finances. Um, I think if I told anybody in this room like, Hey, you got a month to figure it out, and we're raising your rents, um, moving is expensive and a lot of renters are going month to month, you know, on a budget. And they're pushing, they're rubbing pennies together trying to make it happen. And so what I think this bill incentivizes is allowing tenants to have the autonomy over their own budget, um, over their own housing situation. And if they do find themselves in a situation where they can afford their rent because it's going up within 60 days, then they have 60 days to figure it out. Um, and I know from like a landlord's perspective, at least as a tenant myself, how I look at it, don't you want tenants that can afford your rent month to month? Um, and so I think all this bill does is just set a precedence of good standards of, Hey, give people a 60 day notice. Um, and I think we're like, like we said, we have a great relationship with, um, everybody that's gonna be speaking to this bill. And I think, um, we're willing to have conversations about it, but it's just good practice.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:21:00
Okay. Thank you Zoe. We'll take it to, uh, our online comments. Uh, we'll start with Jeremiah Manti. Jeremiah, go ahead and turn your camera on and let us know your location.
Jeremiah Maughan, resident, Mapleton1:21:17
I appreciate it. Thank you. Uh, my name's Jeremiah Manti. I live in Mapleton. I'm a practitioner. Uh, I also am with the, uh, apartment association. I've been a 23 year veteran of the rental housing industry. My company has 1500 units under management across the Wasatch Front. And, uh, we're based in Provo. And I, I appreciate, uh, our representatives for the work they've done. Uh, just, uh, I agree that we, nobody likes surprises and obviously we appreciate, uh, representative Arthur being willing to have a conversation with us about, uh, about how we can improve this. 'cause there are some, some issues technically and also practically, uh, primarily from the technical perspective. The first thing to consider is that the bill applies to term leases, and by definition term leases end. And so the tenant essentially received notice early on already. And during the term, we can't make any changes without a, a, a, a resident agreeing to it. So for a tenant to be able to live in the term in a unit past expiration, they actually would need to enter into a new lease. And those are things that two parties can agree to. Uh, and so I don't, I actually don't think that this provision would stop two parties from entering into a new lease. And I, I don't, I, I don't think that this 60 day provision would actually stop these, you know, being able to be do that. It sounds like my time is up, but we'd be happy to have a conversation with him a little bit later about that and, and how he can work out the rest of the details. Um, and I appreciate resident, uh, Representative Thurston bringing up the issue about the student housing as well.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:22:46
Okay. Thank you Jeremiah. So the first chime is the 15 second, uh, okay. Notice. So if, I'll give you 15 seconds if you want it.
Jeremiah Maughan, resident, Mapleton1:22:56
Yeah. If, um, I think, I think the key thing that, that I wanna make sure is clear with this from the technical perspective is if a lease expires it's done and a new lease would need to be entered into. And so I think that that essentially means that the 68 notice would just can't apply in, in that sort of a situation. And then if there's a month to month rollover provision, it automatically goes to the 15 day as well. Okay.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:23:19
Thank you Jeremiah. We'll go to, uh, Seth Stewart on line. Seth, go ahead and turn your camera on and let us know your location.
Seth Stewart, resident, American Fork1:23:36
Alright, yeah. I'm Seth Stewart, representing myself from American Fork. Um, and I would just ask, where's the constitutional authority behind this bill? What's the, what's the enumeration of powers that, uh, gives the state the authority to regulate this? That's my question. Thanks.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:23:52
Okay. Thank you Seth. Okay. That, that concludes we're gonna go ahead and close public comment and we'll, uh, take you to the committee for further action. It doesn't appear there's any action. We're gonna move the next item on the agenda. Oh, nevermind. Representative Thurston? Nope. Yes, you going for it? Okay. Alright. Go ahead, representative. I moved,
Rep. Norman K Thurston1:24:33
did we move to the next agenda? Sorry. That's why I turned off my light.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:24:39
Alright. All right. Um, the motion, the motion is that we move to the next, uh, item on the agenda. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. And those against. All right. Thank you representative. Thank you so much. Oh, I apologize. I was supposed to go back to you. Would you like to speak to that?
Rep. Norman K Thurston1:24:58
I, I'll just say this very briefly, uh, before Chair Malloy jumps over the, the DA there. No, I, I just wanna say that this, this committee hearing is a necessary first step, I think, for getting the conversation going. And there are, especially in the, the community where I teach, there have been many students who I've suddenly lost outta my classroom who have suddenly disappeared and gone off someplace else because they were not given notice enough of a, a rental increase. Not, not an eviction, but the, the fact that they're, they're not gonna be able to afford to live in the place where they're living right now. Uh, and, and I wanna make sure that we as, as policymakers put, uh, statu statutory pieces in place to make sure that renters and owners are both taken care of in our system. So thank you for the opportunity.
Chair Maloy (presiding)1:25:44
Thank, thank you representative. Okay, we're going to move to, uh, gen item number four,