H.B. 481 Transportation Modifications: transcript

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair and Committee. So this, uh, this bill, most of it, I think, if not all of it, came as recommendations from UDOT on, uh, some adjustments they need to make in what they do. Let me just pull this up. Um, so lemme go through these items. Uh, and it, this is the first sub that I'm speaking to and that just came out recently. There were a few things added, so I'm gonna speak to the first sub. Uh, so it, uh, it talks about the jurisdiction of UDOT in order to build some of these transportation projects like, uh, uh, the, especially the, uh, um, commuter rail. We're double tracking that. And just like, just like, uh, roadways, they have to have certain authority to build, uh, to their specs and especially when they're going through several cities and counties to do it. So they have the state standards that they use and they just need authority to, to make sure that they can do the rail projects. And they took the rail projects over from UTAA few years ago. And so this is just saying they have the same authority that they do with roadways to, uh, build those and then they maintain jurisdiction over those railroads, the railways. And, um, the next part of it, uh, it repeals the Clean Vehicle Program. It was a federal program that allowed those who had clean vehicle stickers to ride in the HOB lanes. That program was ended, the federal program. And, uh, actually I think udot has discontinued, uh, that already. And so this just takes the code, uh, out since it's not being used anymore. Um, uh, another part is, uh, uh, when, when there's railroad safety meetings, uh, sometimes, you know, they get into sensitive subjects and on federal, federally funded roads or, um, uh, federally funded, uh, safety meetings. Uh, they, they're not required to, uh, uh, divulge that some of that sensitive information to the public. And so the, so in the state, that's not a requirement. And sometimes these, uh, lot of the safety meetings, they don't divulge information because they don't want it public. Uh, and so, uh, udot tries to, um, you know, work with safety issues and understand the bottom line. It's not really forthcoming. And so this just says that those meetings can be public the same or can be, uh, uh, kept private, uh, just like the federal meetings are. So that, so that they're willing to disclose that information. Um, yeah, this provides, let's see. Uh, this provides, uh, flexibility and frequency of, of the distribution of Class B and C funding. They can do it quarterly instead of annually, uh, um, on preservation funds. Um, what, what's been happening is the tax commission has been sending those funds to the, to udot, and then UDOT has been sending those out to the, uh, local governments. And this just allows, uh, that the tax commission to go directly to the local governments. So it doesn't have to go through the, through udot. Um, uh, it just clarifies the local corridor preservation funds, how they're used, and, uh, on, uh, on, uh, different counties. Uh, class one and class two, and then the, and then the small counties. And then, um, it makes, there's some technical clarifications. Just, uh, some, um, a few adjustments there. I'm just trying to see if I've missed any of the main, uh, oh, there's one thing here that I missed. Uh, at the base of Cottonwood Canyon, uh, UDOT is gonna be building a, a, a Junction point there, transit hub. And, uh, since a lot of people will be there waiting and that they want to build a facility where they can get outta the weather and, uh, and then lease out some of that so that they can have, um, some retail space. And so it just gives you the, the authority to, uh, to do that leasing. Um, just making sure I've covered everything, I think. I think that's it. So I'd be glad to answer any questions.

Oh, there we go. Representative Ivory, I make a motion. We adopt first substitute house bill 4 81. Okay. The motion is to adopt the first substitute of house bill four, uh, excuse me, 4 81. Transportation modifications.

Waive. Okay.

And I will make a motion that we pass out with a favorable recommendation. First substitute house bill. 4 81. Okay. The motion is to favorably pass out house bill 4 81. Transportation modifications. First sub.

Waive. Okay.

Go ahead. Thanks, Mr. Chair Committee. Um, so this bill has, uh, a few changes that, uh, most of 'em are from udot. Let me talk to you about those. Uh, so some of it's on local jurisdiction and, and property that the, when, when Udot is building a road, uh, they have the ability to use their specs and, and, uh, plans and that to, to go through different cities and counties. And they don't, uh, you know, they coordinate with the cities and counties, but they use their own specs and, and plans. And it does, it provides the same opportunity for UDOT when they're building, um, railroads or, you know, for, for, uh, transit. So it just clarifies their responsibility and their jurisdiction on that. And it also just says that, um, the rails and the stations remain, uh, under the jurisdiction of the, of, uh, the Department of Transportation. Uh, and also, uh, talks about, uh, their authority to, it gives them authority to, uh, lease the property. So over by the cottonwoods, they're looking at doing a, um, a kinda like a park and ride thing there. And they want to have a station where people can stay, but allow, uh, somebody to lease that space and provide f food. Um, it also, uh, terminates the, um, decal system on the clean that repeals, the Clean Vehicle Program. The federal government, uh, ended that program. And those who have, uh, decals or, or licenses that no longer applies in the HOV lanes. So they're, they've asked me to remove that from code, um, on road usage charges. Um, uh, what we wanted to do is move the date, uh, up a little bit. And, and so the, the fee for, uh, the, the, uh, the basic fee would be $280 a year. Uh, and the reason we're doing that is 'cause we want to, uh, invite or encourage people to use the mileage system, uh, which is, they still have the opportunity that, that, uh, that won't change, but they have, they can use the, the, um, keep track of the miles either, uh, with a, an app that you can take a picture of, of that, or you can, uh, use your OBD two port. Um, also at, um, um, it allows flexibility and the di distribution of Class B and C road funding. You can do it, they can do it quarterly. So it just gives them a little more flexibility there. And the corridor preservation funds, um, go directly to the local governments instead of through the, uh, uh, instead of go through udot. So from the, from the, uh, funds that goes directly to those governments. And then there's no pass through requirements there. Um, also, uh, when the railroads, um, have, if there are accidents in that, that UDOT wants to look at, uh, you know, just checking on that, how they can improve safety, uh, for, for federal, uh, discussions on that. They're, uh, they're private discussions, uh, so that if there is, um, a legal action or whatever that that's confidential and, and you don't wants that same opportunity to discuss in private those kind of, uh, uh, sensitive discussions so that, uh, you know, the railroads are more willing to express what, uh, um, you know, the concerns are. And then Udo's able to make adjustments. Otherwise, uh, they won't get any information. So, um, I believe that's all I have unless there's any other questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, on lines 1 74, 2 1 76, it talks about public transit facilities and services that serve Cottonwood Canyons area and Salt Lake City. Salt Lake County. Um, I heard you mention that that would be part of a, the, the terminal that they're putting at Big Cottonwood Canyon, but we wanna make sure that this doesn't create any type of, um, provision to lease parts of the gravel pit mobility hub. Would this open up that gravel pit?

No, this is, they, they wanna put like a concession thing at the, at the facility where the park and ride or the, you know, the, the, um, Yep. The space where they park and people wait for rides to go up.

Okay. So it'd just be like a transportation hub. Right. Okay. And then, um, also when we, we are looking to provide leasing, where would that, uh, when the, um, the generated revenue, where would that revenue be directed to? Would that go to the, um, 72 dash one dash 2 0 1, or would that go to the 72 dash two dash one thirty five, which is, I'm gonna phone a friend. Okay. Thanks. Oh, you brought out The big friend Here. Yeah. Director Carlos. I'd say tall, lean, stealthy, stocky. Big guy, not big heavyweight.

Oh, big guns. Okay. Mr. Chairman, members, Members Of the committee. Carlos RAs, Utah, department of Transportation. Um, any revenues generated off of the lease of services? So it could be a coffee shop, it could be a ski shop. Um, we wanna incorporate that into what we refer to as the Mobility Hub. So that's where we're gonna be running buses up to both canyons, and it'll have quite a few parking stalls there that wouldu back into the transportation fund and then appropriated by the legislature during the annual appropriation process.

May I have a follow up? Yes. Um, so if it's generated in that Mobility Hub, would it stay in that region or would it be opened up for every region? It would be just going into the transportation fund and then during the appropriation process, you determine where that's allocated to. Okay. We're May, I, may I, Mr. Go ahead, Mr. Chairman.

Um, we're using statewide dollars mm-hmm. To fund and build the Mobility Hub, so we're not using county specific money for that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm wondering with the road usage charge rate, the increase in that and also pushing up the date on, on that, uh, this is on line three 14 onto three 19, is that right? Yeah, I think that's the date there. Um, I am wondering, I, I heard the sponsor, I think I heard the sponsor say that this is an incentive to change, um, get people to go into a mileage system instead. And I thought the RUC was a mileage system. Can you talk about the difference?

Sure. Uh, so right now, especially as we started the road usage charge or the R system, uh, and that's a mileage base system for, um, electric vehicles so that they can help with the road maintenance and the cost of the main and the upkeep of roads. Uh, so, so as we started that, we just said we can either do it, they can either pay, um, a certain amount of registration up front and or they can get into the mileage base, uh, road user charge system. And in the, within the road user charge system, you have two ways of, uh, collecting that, uh, the information. One is you can get an app on your phone and take a picture of your odometer, and that keeps track of mileage so that it's not as, as invasive people are worried about their data and stuff. Or you can just say, I want my, uh, telematics that are already in the car or the vehicle to, um, to supply that data. So there's really three choices here. And as we've improved the ruck system, uh, you know, it's, it's, uh, we've got the capacity, we've worked through bugs. Now we want to try to move people over to that. Uh, the, and that's more of a true user, uh, user fee system. The, um, the registration amount, we just wanted to move that to be consistent with what, um, most vehicles of that size and, and, uh, you know, that, that, uh, that they would've paid in gas tax for the year.

So that, Mr. If I may go ahead. That's the increase of the, um, uh, on 3 18, 2 80, and then on three 19, the two 16, is that Yeah, what you, you're talking about the registration?

That's right. And the two 16, I think is gonna, I think there's another bill that's gonna take out the six month fee altogether. So that's just, that's just a ratio of what there is there now, but I think that's gonna disappear.

Um, and Mr. Chair, if I may go, go ahead. Um, so with the, um, with trying to move people onto a mileage system instead of one of the other systems in the, in the wreck, um, does it make sense rather than to increase rates, um, in order to incentivize that move, does it make sense to eliminate the programs you don't want people to be on?

Uh, we could that be a possibility, but we still want to leave some options for people.

But I'm sorry. And I don't mean to be combative here. I thought I heard you say there's three options right now anyway, so there are, there's Two mileage base and one's registration based. Okay. So, uh, Mr. Chair, I am just con I don't really like the increase. I see what the sponsor ha or I hear what the sponsor's saying about why there's a need for this. But, um, it seems strange to me that in a year that we're likely to reduce the taxes on gasoline, that we will be increasing, um, uh, registration caps. And especially if we're saying that we want to incentivize people to not use a program, it seems like it may be, uh, you know, another way to do this is just get rid of the programs we don't want them to use. Um, so that, that's a, an issue for me.

And the other one is on three 14, that date, going to 2027, is there any appetite or could we move it back even a year to 2028?

Well, would that convince you to vote for it?

It, It just, it just might, I mean, let's, let's, let's amend it and see.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. You like that and, yeah, that's right.

Um, and so, uh, Mr. Chair, I, I'm gonna reserve a right to make a motion in, in just a second. I'm gonna go back to my constituents and see the ones that had issues with this and see if that would satisfy some of their concerns. But thank you.

Yes. Thank you. I'm sorry to take a second bite of the apple, but my colleague here brings up some good points. So if I was going to, I'm trying to do the math in my head, and it's Juab not math for me. If you bought a electric car and you wanted to take advantage of this, um, first rate with a usage charge rate of $1.10 25 cents per mile, and then that, oh, you didn't wanna use that, you wanted to use this, um, annual registration, would one of them be more expensive than the other? That would kind of be surprising. Someone who invested in a car thinking that they'd use this program for longer. Because I can see somebody saying, I'm gonna buy this electric car, and this is what I'm in for this annual registration. And then having that pulled out from under them by having an implementation date, implementation date brought up. Can you do the math for me, Mr. Mr. Chairman? Can

I go ahead. Can interrupt Carlos Senator? So when we, when we were operate this program, people have a choice. And I think that's one of the principles that the representative is trying to maintain, is that choice. So you can either choose, choose to pay the upfront fee mm-hmm. Or you can enter the road usage charge program. But what we say is you'll never pay more than that fee. Okay. No matter how many miles that you drive. And so you could pay less if you drive less miles. So we're giving people choices. Okay. And does that make sense? Yeah.

I actually was reading it differently in my head. I thought that this was like going to push them to one or the other, but they still have the choice. One just starts sooner now. Right? Right. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Um, good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. My name is, uh, representative. My name is Josh Kraft. I am the government relations Director for Utah Clean Energy. Uh, we're a nonprofit organization here in Utah. And I, I just wanna echo the same concerns with lines three 14 to three 19 in terms of the, the road usage charge. I do. And I, I, I appreciate that UDOT and the sponsor are, are, first of all, that udot should have the flexibility here, and that we are seeing an increase in the electric vehicle market. Um, we do this year are seeing a substantially different environment in terms of national EV policy. And I think we are, un we are. And so there's some uncertainty there. I would, my, my preference in terms of those lines would be to, um, Change the, the change the beginning date for the increase in the ruck fee up to $280 until 2028. So we have a year, uh, a year. I, I, I think that even better would be to keep the fee at two 40, which is what is in the length for 2032 right now. But I can live with, uh, um, what, um, that has been discussed right now as a, as an alternative. So, uh, and I, again, again, I think that that still allows for growth in the road usage charge program from EV drivers, um, but gives a, a year of reprieve, uh, in the increase in the fee as we're, we're looking at this new R level. Thank You. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee. I'm Andrew Gu River. I'm executive director of the Wasatch Front Regional Council. We support this bill and I just want express appreciation for Representative Christofferson. The representative is chair of the House Transportation Committee and the Senator Vickers chair of the Senate Transportation Committee do a really terrific job working with all of the transportation agencies year in and year out. Senator Harper typically has his omnibus bill, and we have come to lovingly refer to this bill as the minibus bill pulling all of these issues together. So your committee doesn't have to deal with 10 or 20 bills. We can tackle these issues altogether. So representative, Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I did get, I heard confirmation that, um, if we change the date three, uh, on line three 14 to 2028, sounds like that would satisfy a lot of the concerns. Um, and so, uh, I am would like to make a motion to, uh, a floor amendment, uh, to change that date to 2028.

Three 14. And that's the only place that it appears in the bill I'm looking now, yes. Okay. Yeah, it's looking to see if it's in the short title as well. 20. Oh, it's not in the short title, so, okay.

Well, I think she can bend my arm to make that happen.

Yep. Thank you very much.

Keep going. Uh, Mr. Chair, I move that we pass out favorably, HB 4 81 second sub as amended, uh, to the full body of the Senate.

Madam Marine Clerk First substitute House Bill 4 81. Transportation modifications by Representative Christofferson. This bill was heard in transportation with the vote of 10 0 2 Representative Christofferson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to move substitute number two.

Yeah, it has, uh, about three main things that it does. Uh, first of all, uh, it identifies specifically when UDOT is working with, uh, on transit projects that they ha they maintain jurisdiction of the rail and the, uh, stations. It also, uh, on the ruck system, the road usage charge, it, uh, starts in 2027 to raise the, uh, fee to $280. They, um, and people on the R program can still, uh, go to the mileage, uh, program. If they want to do that on a, on a six month, uh, registration, that's, there's another bill that's gonna delete that. So, uh, so that'll change. And then, um, also for counties that have, um, there's some money that comes in for, um, preservation of corridor. Some of the counties are almost built out. And so there's a process to say, we can use some of this money for local road projects. And if we don't think that in the next 20 years we're gonna have a new road belt that we need to preserve corridor, and that's in, uh, they have to get the approval from the county, uh, executives and also from the, uh, for example, uh, Wasatch Front Regional Council, the MPOs. And that's what the amendment or the substitute does.

Okay, thank you. So the rest of the bill talks about, uh, uh, it repeals the Clean Vehicle Program. Uh, the federal government discontinued that. So if you've got a clean vehicle decal in the HOV lanes, uh, that no longer applies. And so they're just, we're just removing that from code. Um, it also says that, uh, the tax commission can change the, uh, I, I guess, I guess this is the, uh, uh, department of Transportation can change the frequency of the Class B and C road funding. They can go quarterly if they want instead of annually. Um, it, uh, it, it, it, uh, defines the jurisdiction of udot when they're building transit projects, that they have the ability to use their specs and, and their process throughout all of the cities and counties that they go through. Of course, they'll coordinate that, but they need to have that jurisdiction just like they do UDOT roads. Um, and, uh, let's see. I think I've think I've got covered. Let me just make sure I haven't missed something. I think that does it for me. So if there are any questions, I'd be glad to answer 'em.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker with a sponsor yield two, a question or two.

I will, yes. Representative Cutler,

Could you speak to, could the sponsor speak to the changes in the corridor preservation, whether that, uh, in his opinion will result in more corridor preservation and planning ahead, or, or less how that changes?

Well, I think, uh, for example, Weber County, they, uh, they don't anticipate any new roads. They're saying this money's just gonna sit there. They want to use it for, uh, for other road projects. And, you know, I am a real proponent for corridor preservation, but I also am a realist and realize that, you know, some places they're not growing as fast as other places. And so we put some real guardrails around that. And, and we just said, if you've got money sitting there, and it's approved through the, uh, commission, through the, uh, county executive branch, and then also the, uh, uh, also the MPOs. And as long as they don't think that they're gonna need that in the next 20 years, then they can use it for a road project and they can still build that up if they see something coming up in the future.

Thank you. Uh, do you think specifically this will assist with the quarter preservation for West Davis highway expansion or, uh, not, not related. This is local, uh, local roads, not state roads. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a question?

I will. Representative, yes. Representative

Hansen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just looking at Line three 18. Um, just on the road usage charge, I'm not understanding what that means. Can you explain that please?

Um, we have a road usage charge that if you, um, have an electric vehicle, you can do two things. You can either pay a registration fee up front or you can pay a mileage fee. And you can do that through, um, you can, you can, uh, do that through your, uh, just take a, there's a, an app that you can take a picture of your odometer or you can do that through your telematics. And so this gives you that choice. We've had that choice and we, we want to encourage people as much as possible to go to use the mileage, uh, uh, the mileage system. But, uh, this, this just puts it in line with what, uh, a typical gas user would use.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker,

Waive. Thank you.

Would like to speak to it. Yeah, it has, uh, about three main things that it does. Uh, first of all, uh, it identifies specifically when UDOT is working with, uh, on transit projects that they ha they maintain jurisdiction of the rail and the, uh, stations. It also, uh, on the ruck system, the road usage charge, it, uh, starts in 2027 to raise the, uh, fee to $280. They, um, and people on the R program can still, uh, go to the mileage, uh, program. If they want to do that on a, on a six month, uh, registration, that's, there's another bill that's gonna delete that. So, uh, so that'll change. And then, um, also for counties that have, um, there's some money that comes in for, um, preservation of corridor. Some of the counties are almost built out. And so there's a process to say, we can use some of this money for local road projects. And if we don't think that in the next 20 years we're gonna have a new road belt that we need to preserve corridor, and that's in, uh, they have to get the approval from the county, uh, executives and also from the, uh, for example, uh, Wasatch Front Regional Council, the MPOs. And that's what the amendment or the substitute does.

Okay, thank you. So the rest of the bill talks about, uh, uh, it repeals the Clean Vehicle Program. Uh, the federal government discontinued that. So if you've got a clean vehicle decal in the HOV lanes, uh, that no longer applies. And so they're just, we're just removing that from code. Um, it also says that, uh, the tax commission can change the, uh, I, I guess, I guess this is the, uh, uh, department of Transportation can change the frequency of the Class B and C road funding. They can go quarterly if they want instead of annually. Um, it, uh, it, it, it, uh, defines the jurisdiction of udot when they're building transit projects, that they have the ability to use their specs and, and their process throughout all of the cities and counties that they go through. Of course, they'll coordinate that, but they need to have that jurisdiction just like they do UDOT roads. Um, and, uh, let's see. I think I've think I've got covered. Let me just make sure I haven't missed something. I think that does it for me. So if there are any questions, I'd be glad to answer 'em.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker with a sponsor yield two, a question or two. Representative Christofferson will yield to a series of questions.

I will, yes. Representative Cutler,

Could you speak to, could the sponsor speak to the changes in the corridor preservation, whether that, uh, in his opinion will result in more corridor preservation and planning ahead, or, or less how that changes?

Well, I think, uh, for example, Weber County, they, uh, they don't anticipate any new roads. They're saying this money's just gonna sit there. They want to use it for, uh, for other road projects. And, you know, I am a real proponent for corridor preservation, but I also am a realist and realize that, you know, some places they're not growing as fast as other places. And so we put some real guardrails around that. And, and we just said, if you've got money sitting there, and it's approved through the, uh, commission, through the, uh, county executive branch, and then also the, uh, uh, also the MPOs. And as long as they don't think that they're gonna need that in the next 20 years, then they can use it for a road project and they can still build that up if they see something coming up in the future.

Thank you. Uh, do you think specifically this will assist with the quarter preservation for West Davis highway expansion or, uh, not, not related.

This is local, uh, local roads, not state roads.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a question?

I will. Representative, yes. Representative

Hansen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just looking at Line three 18. Um, just on the road usage charge, I'm not understanding what that means. Can you explain that please?

Um, we have a road usage charge that if you, um, have an electric vehicle, you can do two things. You can either pay a registration fee up front or you can pay a mileage fee. And you can do that through, um, you can, you can, uh, do that through your, uh, just take a, there's a, an app that you can take a picture of your odometer or you can do that through your telematics. And so this gives you that choice. We've had that choice and we, we want to encourage people as much as possible to go to use the mileage, uh, uh, the mileage system. But, uh, this, this just puts it in line with what, uh, a typical gas user would use.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker,

Waive. Thank you.

I would move the fourth substitute house bill 4 81 pass.

Senator Kwan, President I move to encircle. First sub house Bill four 20.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move the house ref you refuse to concur and ask the Senate to, uh, receipt from their amendments. I wonder what the governor thinks downstairs when that all happens. That motion is in order.

Yeah, I like most of that. I think there's a, there's some tweaks on the, uh, uh, special license plates and, and we just had a discussion on a few tweaks that we'd like to make. So hopefully we can get that worked out.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move to adopt the conference committee report.

Yeah. Uh, this deals with, uh, license plates. Uh, we made some changes to the way special group license plates are, uh, created and paid for. Made the process easier by, uh, making the payment upfront so that the people who were uh, collecting those didn't need to, uh, collect it themselves. Uh, we made it so that, uh, the fees are proposed by the DMV and not, uh, not in code. So we took it out of code, uh, then they can get the actual cost for those fees. Um, and then we, uh, made it so that the license plate frames are, uh, don't cover the license plate, uh, and, uh, make it so that it's hard to read. Um, also we made it so that the, uh, standard issue plates, uh, proposals can be made to EO for, uh, changes on that. And, uh, I think that pretty much does it.