H.B. 491 State Highway Designation Amendments: transcript

Thank you, chair. Thank you. Committee. Um, so this is a pretty straightforward bill. It's sort of a shift in our policy, and it's a collaboration between, uh, both members, uh, both parties of the legislature. So the Senate side and the house side. This comes from road naming bills. We've had a record number of bills, uh, proposed this year to rename roads 12. So 12 Roads. This is a record. And so, uh, leadership is on both sides of tried to come up with a way to, uh, sort of filter this process and come up with a methodical approach to this, to, uh, still recognize, uh, important people that are, uh, important to our state and that can be honored in our state, but also not create the problems that come up, comes up as we continue to get road designations and, and these requests. And so, uh, this bill does two things. It, uh, lines up with UDOT code to, of what the criteria will be as we come up with the selection process and it designates a committee. Uh, this would be made up from three members in the Senate, three members in the house, and they would meet in the off season during, uh, the summer in interim. And they would, that would be the time to submit any name request from any members of the legislature. And you can go present it. They'll filter it, they'll review it. Hit one change. That's different than now, because one of the problems that we're seeing is, uh, name, name requests are coming either off, um, just personal requests. Uh, sometimes they're filled with a emotion. They're like, you know, whether it's somebody, uh, died in our state last year, whether it's law enforcement or Charlie Kirk, or sometimes they're made off political, uh, reasoning and can be used to like, take digs at other parties. And this gums up our legislative process. It, they set it in rules. So it then causes contention because this, uh, member is trying to get their road designation bill out of rules, and it's slowing it down causes contention with the rules committee with that member. 'cause right now, all 12 bills are being held in rules, and they're not moving at all. And so it's coming up the rules process. And, uh, again, it can just be used to take political motives, which then creates backlash against members of the legislature when it's sitting in rules and not even being heard during the process. And it's taking up, uh, airtime media time and creating bad press again for the legislature. And so it creates this committee, and then it, uh, creates a couple simple guidelines. So, um, again, behind the premise that, uh, permanent decisions shouldn't be made on temporary emotion. Uh, we're throwing out a rule that says this is based off the Hall of Fame sort of rules that they, the person should be dead for at least five years before they're inducted into the Hall of Fame. And so that's the suggestion that we are starting with. And, um, they have some other rules in there that says only one name per section of the highway. Uh, talking with Udot, they have sections of the highway in some areas of the state where you have three and four names stacked on top of each other for the same section of highway creates confusion. Um, another concern was the cost of renaming the highway. Two signs, only two signs should be put up for the highway, and it'll be paid out of either the general fund or from donors who are making these name requests. Um, and so that's it, that's the gist of the bill. Would, um, welcome any questions or comments? So there amendment, we do have an, we do have an amendment that's been published. And so do you wanna explain that? Yeah, so the amendment, yeah. Yeah. So the amendment, uh, it's one clarification when it says the committee's to be made up of six members of the legislature, three from the Senate, three from the House, making sure that there's at least one from the minority party on each side, or at least two members from the minority party. So two of the six would be from the minority priority, so that they feel represented as well, and feel like it would be a missed opportunity to create a road naming committee without actually having a name. So the natural, uh, road committee process. So, all right. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, um, I didn't see in here how this would apply if you're wanted to name a highway after someone who's not a person. So for example, we have the Grand Army of the Republic, we have Minuteman Highway, we have some of our highways that have been designated to recognize groups of people. Um, is that, is your intent that that would just still follow the legislative process? Or what, what are, what are, what, what, what do you think should happen in those cases?

Um, yeah, that's actually a good question. So, online 1 51, it talks about honors an individual. Maybe we could, uh, tweak that. So it says honors an individual or group. 'cause we were just mostly thinking about individuals since those were all 12 requests this Year. Okay. If, if you can move slowly, I'll go talk to Rachel and figure something out.

Thank you. I am just going to fill some time and say that I love this bill. I think it's phenomenal. And I just want everyone to know that in five years when somebody comes before this committee with a designation bill, Representative Thurston is, will remember this moment. And he will make sure that that bill does not advance in our committee. So I think it's wonderful. Thank you for what you're doing. And I think that will be a very good amendment. And I, do I need to take up any more time or are there other people wanting to speak? There's still more so Perfect to that, to that, uh, response or question or statement. Uh, I would a also, uh, throw out the talking with Udot about this process is when we do have bills that are different road designations. They're sort of caught in the middle. So this does sort of the filtering of that entire process beforehand and makes their job easier along the way. Great job. Yeah. Thanks.

Well, so this, the, my rating of this is that Anos Highway would probably be that designation, then that would be the name designation.

No, that would just be the number of the road, but not the name associated, associated with

I just pulled up the list that, that we currently have. And so I don't think my amendment will cover all these cases, but I think it covers most of them. Um, the I 15 is d is the Veterans Memorial Highway. So honors a group, veterans, the 10th Mountain Division, Memorial Highway Legacy Loop. I don't know what Legacy Loop is. Utah National Parks Highway, Dinosaur Diamond, prehistoric Highway, Ram Boulevard. I don't know how Ram Boulevard got in code. That's an interesting question. Is that In Lehi? I don't know. I'm gonna have to look that one up. That Would be Pioneer Boulevard. Yeah. Utah Fruit Way, purple Heart Trail again, purple Heart Trail. James V. Hanson, Mormon, pioneer Heritage Gun McKay. Mike Dmitri, Pete Suazo, pioneer Trail Quarry Ride, Vietnam Veterans, uh, Jason Workman Memorial Bridge, the Minuteman Highway, the Navajo Co Talker Highway, the Grand Army of the Republic Highway. Golden Spike slash Lincoln Memorial Highway, Jake Garn Legacy Highway, and the Bostrom Brothers Memorial Highway. Those are the ones that we currently have. So, um, we're working on the amendment to just say that, that it would incorporate individuals or groups of individuals, some of these weird ones like Ram Boulevard. I, I don't, I want to, I'd be very careful 'cause that might be something real important to somebody, but I don't know what that is. So, um, so my question is, you really want the legislature to do this and not the governor? I'm, I'm okay either way. I don't really don't care. So I'm just asking you that question.

I think this is the spot. I think this is the, I think this is a good process that is methodical and helps funnel a lot of different choices down to a methodical process where, uh, they can be heard and it's transparent and gets to one choice. Yeah.

Yeah. So it sounds like Mr. Chair, that that, that, maybe you're right, that this, if we don't do something like this, we're gonna have every high school mascot wanting us to have a state designated highway. And we don't want that. And

I might propose a, a, a substitute amendment that we renamed Ram Boulevard, Wildcat Boulevard in Monroe for reasons that many of you won't understand.

Le Felder from udot, it's coming up Le Felder with Udot W we like to just, you know, sit in the back and, and let things happen. But we'll just say we're in support of the bill. We, we think it's a, it's a good thing just to keep this special and also keep the sign pollution down on our, on our roads that don't add to the mobility or the safety or, or other things. So we appreciate, uh, wanting to tackle the proliferation that, uh, Representative Shallenberger is talking about. So thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If you refresh your screen, That's what I'm trying to refresh. I'll Amendment Tool Shop. I move the adoption of House Amendment two.

Yeah. Obviously it incorporates a really good part, which was an Amendment one. Um, but it also just, so, it just clarifies that the Honor can be either an individual who has all the criteria were previously outlined, or a group with significant ties to the state. Yeah. And otherwise, the process would be the same. And very, very good job, by the way, drafting people. Fantastic. It looks wonderful. They're pros. That's why they get paid the big bucks. Thank you to our staff who is so nimble. Appreciate that.

for a comment, I'll Waive. This has been great. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we favorably recommend first substitute House Bill 4 91 as amended. That is an order discussion to that motion. Yeah. I, I mean, as it's gonna come a surprise to everybody. We have a lot of bills that are not really critical policy issues, but yet are important. And if we can find a way of handling those in a way that doesn't gum up the works, I think that you were referring to earlier, I, I'm all in favor of taking care of these important issues through administrative action. I, it's something that I think is a, it makes us more efficient as a legislature, and also increases public confidence and trust in what we do.

Thank you. And I would, I appreciate the comments, the questions I would throw out that I didn't hear the question today, but if there was a concern that we're trying to, um, silence somebody's voice from bringing this, they can still run a bill for a road designation on their own. You can do that still. But this creates a formal process where everything should funnel through for this process.

Yeah. Waive I'll waive or, and some at the same time.

Thank you. So this bill came after, uh, speaking with, uh, leadership from both houses, uh, the House and the Senate. We have an increasing number of road designation name bills every year. This year we had 12 bills filed to rename, uh, sections of the freeway and, uh, talking. So the purpose behind this is to help create a process for that so it doesn't just keep escalating so that we can review this and come up with a methodical, streamlined way to deal with these. Uh, and it solves a number of problems. Uh, the, the intent is to create an off season, uh, committee. A road naming committee where if people want to name sections of road around the state, a state highway or state road, they can submit it to this committee. And then they'll go, they'll do their pitch and the committee will pick one name to come outta there. So we, they will have one road name, uh, submitted to the legislature during the legislative session. Uh, this would not stop or prevent an individual legislator from running a, uh, wrote their own bill during the session. But it creates a methodical process where it stops. For instance, this year where we had 12 name, name bills, it stops those from just gumming up the process for the rest of the important work that needs to be done here. Also, talking with udot, it helps eliminate some problems that are developing across the state. There are sections of freeway where they now are starting to stack multiple names on top of each other for the same sections of freeway. Uh, sometimes two, sometimes three names covering the same section of road for a memorial road. Uh, this would also eliminate, uh, a sign clutter along the freeway where the focus is meant to be on, uh, road driving signs, speed limits, exits or directional or important driving signs rather than just a memorial sign. So, uh, the, the intent is to create some limits around this where there would be two signs per section. There's gonna be gaps, uh, five miles in between names on the freeway, trying to eliminate the gap, uh, the clutter that's gonna be on the freeway. And then it would be paid for either out of the general fund. So you have to go through the funding process, or it could be paid through, uh, a nonprofit or another matching group if, uh, so it's not just an additional expense there. Um, part of the selection process right now is it's proposed to have a five year, maybe cooling off period. Sometimes these names come up when someone passes and there, or there might be a lot of emotion behind it. This last year we've had a policeman that was killed. We had the Charlie Kirk incident. We had Robert Redford that died, uh, different people from around the state. And so the number was picked five years because in the Hall of Fame sports world, five years is sort of a cooling off period to wait and see if these names really deserve, uh, a permanent spot. Uh, in, in our state, memorialized in our state, uh, the committee was designed to be a pi bipartisan committee with three members of each house and members of both the majority and minority party. And addressing the two amendments that I see online. So, uh, Senator Kwan, that was the, the five year period. It, I'm not married to five years. That was just a number that was thrown out 'cause it's used in other parts of the world for permanent naming, uh, processes. And then the other was the naming of the actual committee. I get that that's maybe not a traditional process up here to name a committee. I thought it would be a hugely missed opportunity to, uh, not name the committee that is in charge of picking names for stuff. So, so we put in there calling it the Natural Road Selection Committee or some variation of that. So that was the other amendment to maybe move, remove that name. But I thought that would be a missed opportunity to actually name that committee. And I know that's not a typical approach up here, but that was the intent behind that. So that's the end of the presentation.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I, I, I don't really like the five year waiting period because we have, uh, a street that's named Cody in West Valley that honored Brotherson Brotherson. Yeah. Um, and I, I think that that was a really nice way to honor him after he passed. And so I, I almost would wonder, could we put a five year Sunset on naming a road so that a road can be named for a while and then we can honor somebody else? Because I do understand stacking of the names, but, um, I've, I struggle with is this a remembrance of somebody or is this honoring somebody? So I guess you can look at this two different ways. So mm-hmm. Um, I also, uh, struggle with the, um, nomination, the committee. Um, I don't know if you've seen how these committees work, but it's sometimes hard for the two minority people to have something move forward. So, uh, and not having it in front of the full body would take away some people's voice when it comes to voting for something in a, um, for the whole body. So, uh, I think that there's a lot to think about in this bill, but I'm not quite sure I'm on board yet. So, thanks. Yeah.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, yeah, I have a, a couple of, well, let me ask a question first. Um, would Martin Luther King Jr be considered as having some contribution or significant, important, significant public importance to Utah? I mean, I, I am really just questioning, would that be a name that could go forward within,

I I, I think he would have an, a significant impact on, uh, every community, every state, uh, in the entire country. So that would probably be the pitch to the committee.

Well, lemme write down that down. If I was presenting that as a new name, I, I seriously had a question about that because of the way that it was written. Um, would that preclude people who didn't, uh, live here?

We, we maybe Yeah. Couldn't prove that they even visited Utah? No. 'cause I don't think the intent was not to say they had to live in Utah, it's just did they have an impact or are they, are they relevant to Utah in some way, or, or fashion? And you could make a tie for Martin Luther King Jr. Easily.

Um, and I, I actually would would much rather, you know, make a, uh, try to get a, a road, a state road after someone like, um, Cody Brotherson. Right. Who, and it, it is not a state road that it is, um, his street is named after him, but it, it only took them a year. They, um, honored him within a year, uh, with that. And I, I do understand, you know, we don't wanna see all of these, um, stacking of names and that perhaps is something that the committee needs to address. Um, but I don't, I don't like the, uh, you know, tying our hands for five years. I think also, um, there's gonna be, uh, a, a community reason, right. For that, that five years. I mean, we see people moving in and out within two years, right? When we're knocking on doors. We see a lot of movement on that. Um, and that's not to say, well, we have to do it within one year, but I, I don't believe we have a, um, a restriction on, on time right now. Is that correct? There? There's no restrict in the bill.

There is, but not in the law. No.

No. Yeah. And I don't see that that has been a problem. I can, I understand the conversation, um, that has gone, uh, you know, around that. But I, I don't see that it's solving a problem. I think it's a solution to maybe not having a problem

If, if I, I respond, it, it helps.

I mean, oftentimes when there is a death, for instance, Charlie Kirk, the death of Charlie Kirk created a lot of emotion on both sides last year. And then the, the bill that was proposed this year created even more divisiveness when it was proposed to replace a city road for, uh, Harvey Milk, which then created more chaos. 'cause it's taking up, uh, media time and, and getting in the way of business of the legislature. Uh, so at at least some time having some type of mandatory period, whether it's, uh, like the Charlie Kirk instance or the death of, uh, on the unfortunate death of a law enforcement officer or something like that. It maybe gives a cooling off period where there's some emotions can calm down and two years, three years, five years later, we can look at this and say they really had a significant impact. And we can, we wanna memorialize that in the state.

I, I can see. So it helps take the emotions out of it somewhat.

And I can see that, you know, Mr. Chairman, my, uh, amendment was to take that piece out totally thinking, well, we don't have a problem with that, and perhaps we don't need that in there. But I wonder if we can come to some agreement that maybe I think five years is too long, maybe two years is the right number. And if,

Yeah, I'm open to, to this. I mean, five years was just a number that, you know, they're sort of brainstorming and picking out things. So five years was the number picked out. It's, it is just there

If Mr. Chair, if the, it sounds as though maybe two years would be, uh, something that the sponsor would, um, be willing to move to. And so with that, uh, I would like to make a motion of Florida.

I know. So I'm a strong proponent of five years, um, and having dealt with this, um, this is around, I'm gonna bring university experience to this and university naming opportunities, um, death of someone kind of right there, the emotion of all of that. It can be like, people wanna do something or a family member wants to do something. Um, you just need a period of time, uh, for people to say, is this the right thing? And, and time helps that. So it, there's just, I just wanna encourage us to stay at five years. Um, I think over time we'll make better decisions about roads that we name, et cetera. Because if somebody, if, if it's somebody we still wanna honor after five years, they must have significant significance for the state of Utah. And I just, I, I can tell you it's very hard to say no to a family member or to somebody in the community. Uh, if you don't have some really good kind of criteria that helps back you up and, and give people just a chance to breathe and contemplate whether that's the right thing to do. So I would speak against that.

Senator Ipson, I'd like to make a motion that we move amendment number three and Senator Harper's name.

No, I think it makes sense that take that out.

Naturally the thing to do. Yes. Representative. Naturally, I'd be opposed to this. The, I mean, this begs the question that like, or the statement that missed opportunity for a naming and committee to not actually be named itself. So it's like being laid out on a platter in front of us. So I'll let you guys, uh, do whatever you want.

I do, uh, I move that we favor favorably recommend HB 4 91. Uh, first sub right. First sub. Um, and I wanna say that, um, when Senator Millner tells me to cool my jets, I, I think it's, I think I need to, to listen. So, uh, so I, I support this.

And naturally I agree with Senator Millner and Senator Kwan. Cool. My jets bipartisan.

Yeah, I'll waive. Thank you Senator Riebe for summation.

The bill is circled matter. Meeting clerk Per substitute house Bill 4 91 State Highway designation amendments by Representative Roberts. This bill was heard in transportation with the vote. 11 0 1

Thank you Mr. Speaker ProAm. I yield the remainder of my time to Representative Shallenberger.

Thank you. I can speak to this bill. I helped put it together and was working with the different parties on the background of it, so just can help, uh, speak to it. Uh, each year we get named de designation bills, uh, and it keeps increasing every year. This year we had 12 different name designation bills. And so in the process of efficiency, both, uh, the Senate and the House we've been working together, we came up with a plan to create an off season, uh, committee with members from both, uh, legislative bodies that will come and any name bills will be submitted to the committee for review. They will hear 'em, they'll go through the process, uh, and they have some different criteria that they need to meet, but they'll pick one name that they then recommend to the body. So we have one name recognition, uh, bill coming outta the committee. This does not prevent any member of the body from running their own name bill, but it is, uh, meant to help, uh, make, streamline our process, make it more efficient, not take up our time on our other important bills that we're also trying to pass. Uh, it's also been a problem with UDOT and on our highways where we've run into actual sections of the freeway where we sometimes are stacked. Uh, three names deep on certain sections of the highway because, uh, of different bills that have passed. So there's been sections, for example, where it could be called the Robert Shallenberger Sawyer Memorial Highway, where they're just stacked three deep. And um, it also, uh, creates more sign clutter on the freeways where it detracts from actual important driving signs where there's talking about speed limit or exit or notices that might be coming up. And so there's wording in there that would limit it to two, uh, two signs per section and those would be paid either through donations or out of the general fund when a bill is submitted. So that's the background on that is trying to create a process in the off season to help deal with, uh, highway name designations.

Thank you. So every year we have lots and lots of requests to name highways after people. And what this does is this creates a highway designation, bipartisan review committee, uh, for special naming committees, uh, highway name bill. And then, so for example, this year there's been 12 highway name bills. This creates a review process for review and selecting, uh, one name and road a year. It does not prohibit a legislator from still running a name bill, but it does create the process for that. Um, and, but it, what we're trying to do is have better legislative efforts, udot and high, uh, for, um, well, in any event, the person who wrote this does not know how to write sentences. However, uh, this is a better process. We're just trying to get ahold of not having a willy-nilly highway naming system. This creates a process for it. Happy to answer any questions.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to Circle. Thank you representative.

Motion to Concur. Thank you Representative. That motion is in other words I speak to it.

Yes. The change was made three days ago back in Senate committee. So no changes in the Senate and all it changes is this is the road naming bill that actually, uh, uh, where a committee makes, uh, they decide all the road bills and chooses one, one, uh, name to change the state highways. And we thought it would be appropriate to have the road naming committee that names roads have a name and apparently the Senate does not have a sense of humor and didn't want it to have a name, so they pulled it out. We're fine with that. We're fine with that.