H.B. 502 School Attendance Modifications: transcript

Okay. This one might be a little more questions and things like that, uh, because it deals with attendance and that's a, a difficult situation that we've been trying to work with. So, um, this is a bill that, uh, we presented in interim. Um, we got a lot of feedback. We were trying to take a stab at it. I've been trying to thread the needle on a, on a good attendance policy that, that addresses all the concerns. Um, as, as I go into this presentation, one thing I'd like to point out is, uh, when you're talking about attendance, I don't know that there is a policy that everyone will get behind, but is there a better policy? And, uh, I think that's the difficult thing. I often joke that if I ask a hundred people what, uh, the attendance policy should look like, I get 150 different answers. Meaning that most people actually are conflicted themselves. And so this is the step. So this bill actually has three parts to it. Um, I try to take feedback that was given to me in interim with conversations with many of you. Whether I did it correctly or not, I'm not sure. But lemme talk about the first piece. The first piece, um, creates, uh, a citizenship grade. Well, one of the arguments in education is an academic grade is an academic grade, and it shouldn't show anything. But academics in citizenship, whether you're on time, whether you're doing all those other things that are completely separate. And this is not a new concept. This is something, if I go back to my elementary school grade report, I had an academic grade and they had a citizenship grade. And that was 50 years ago. And that's continued still through to this day. Okay? Not 50 years ago, 46 ish. Um, but that's still true. And so when we talk about citizenship grade, this is not new. This is actually something that most schools have on their report card. It just doesn't mean anything. It's hard to, to measure. And so the first part of this bill is trying to separate the academic from the attendance and create a little bit of a carrot for, uh, students. And so the first version, by the way, I'm speaking to the, to substitute number two, the original version had language that I didn't necessarily like was dealing with, uh, uh, character in civic traits and was kind of put out there. But what we're really getting at is, um, if you look at lines 42 through 46, we're talking about those, I'm sorry, substitute two. Substitute two. Okay. Thank you. Yes. And if I'm going too fast, lemme know. Um, so what this does is it's asking USBE, um, to make a framework citizenship policy that, uh, goes around like durable work-ready skills. 'cause part of the goal of education is to make sure people are ready to go to work. That's a, that's a why we educate people. And so this, uh, says what we're talking about, uh, citizenship, it's a, it's, sorry, it's attendance, meeting deadlines. So turning your work in on time class participation and engagement, teacher communication. So can you advocate for yourself? Are you participating in class? Um, and those are the traits for citizenship. Now, this has no impact on your academic grade. This is just a citizenship grade. But the USBE will create a framework, and LEA may adopt this. So if your, uh, LEA does not want to participate, they don't have to participate in this. The benefit to having a a, a consistent framework is it allows it to mean something as students move forward. So in talking to, uh, higher ed, we talked about this idea of you, you give somebody a scholarship because you think that they've earned this money, this is someone else's money, taxpayers, private donors, someone else like that. And you're saying, I believe this kid is a good investment because they've shown based off of their GPA, that they're ready to go. Well, GPAs are hyper inflated these days. And I'll say that as a teacher, GPAs don't mean what they used to mean. Um, and then we find out that a lot of these kids are showing up to school, like high achieving kids. Like you talked to a lot of the parents who send their kids to BYU, for example, and they just, they crash out. And these are like high achieving kids because they haven't had to turn in work on time and they haven't had to show up. And all of those things impact their ability. And so now, in some cases, you're wast not wasting money, but your, your money is, is not being used. So, so this framework would allow, uh, a university to potentially use citizenship as a framework for scholarships. If they wanna offer, they could do GPA and citizenship. They can do g they can do two separate scholarships. It also creates a framework to create a scholarship fund, tax exempt scholarship fund. So private entities can donate to it. You know, one of the concerns we had before is it looked like we were paying kids to go to school. We don't wanna do that on tax payer dollars, although we do pay them to get good grades. And the concept is the same, but it creates a, a scholarship fund where Representative Eliason could say, this is a great idea. Or Zion's Bank could say, this is a great idea and we want to make sure that we've got a, a work ready workforce and we think that this is worth putting money towards. And so they can donate money to the scholarship. There's nothing from the state cost, and they would be able to use this, uh, citizenship framework, uh, to be able to, to do that. So there's a little bit of a carrot for kids. If they want a little bit more money, there's some things that they can do. So that's part number one. Uh, part number two, uh, is this idea of being able to test out. Like if you're competent and I know what I'm doing in school, why do I have to go to school? Why do I have to go to class? I know everything, yada, yada, yada. Well, let's give you a test out option where you can take a test similar to a KLE test and say, I am competent and I can pass this test. And if you pass the test, you're good to go. Uh, and there's no, um, you get credit for the class. Um, if you need the class because you don't pass the test or you choose not to pass the test, then a teacher, and here's where we have a little bit of change here. A teacher can have up to 10% attendance. Now that's if your kid really knows everything, and it's a all academic base except for that piece, 90% in most places is an A at worst and an A at best, um, depending on whether some schools have just gone to A, B, C, D and no pluses or minuses, but in the worst case scenario, you're looking at an A. So if your kid is smart and they're intelligent and they know everything and they don't need to be there, they can get an A minus. And if they show up half of the classes, they'll still get an A. So it would allow that, uh, for teachers to be able to do 10% LEAs could go up to 20%. They would have to make that determination. We're thinking like acquire classes and PE classes and things like that, that require more participation. And they could make that, that that choice. On line 21, we did make sure that we added may permit valid excused absences. So we talked about rodeo and mountain biking and all of those things. Those would not be calculated in your grade. If you're an active kid and you're participating in all of those things, if you're sick and your parent excuses you, that's not gonna factor into your, into your 10% attendance grade either. So there's that piece and, um, there might be some more questions, but I'll wait to see the questioning comment and see if that comes up. The last piece was given to me, uh, this kinda came from USBE where there's great concern over student attendance. So students that, um, meet several criteria, we want to make sure that they're okay. So if you, uh, go to ENS 1 37, if a student is absent for more than 10, 10 consecutive days, and the parent has failed to notify the school, and they have not filed for homeschool and they have not provided notice of unen enrollment, and they have failed to respond to repeated communication, um, then we have some concerns about that student. And so this will allow for, uh, ask for a welfare check. Now, the original version they asked for, and there's some debate on this, that, uh, the law, the, the check Uintah law enforcement or DCFS as the first visit, there is some concern that that does will raise hackles. Uh, it creates a, uh, an environment that is, um, not checking on the welfare of kid, but then parents become worried about whether their kids are going to be taken away from them or whether law enforcement is gonna see illicit drugs going on. We just wanna make sure the kid's okay and that they're in the class. And so in, uh, conversation with, uh, some local LEAs that I work with in No, well, their, their policy right now actually is that the, the LEA will send a designee to go visit with the the school. And so, um, we, in this version of the bill, the one changed from the, from substitute one is that, um, instead of doing LEA and law enforcement is the first option, uh, we're going to go to the school and they will be the first ones to visit to make sure that the child is, is well and if there's any concerns that they can address. And that's kind of, uh, I think standard practice anyway. And then they can refer to law enforcement or DCFS after that. So that was a lot. That's the bill. I am open to any questions.

Thank you. Um, my questions relate to the welfare check policy. So you're saying that there's a policy that already exists. How many days do they wait? Currently? This is an LEA specific policy. Uh, so LEAs will, will do checks and, and I think your elementary schools oftentimes will check, uh, after three or four days, because that's a lot of learning for an elementary school kid. High school's not so much. Uh, and so they Just call the family. Yeah, I mean, when you're absent, there's, most schools have an automatic notification that goes out and email and a text or an email and a phone call will go out. And so the parents are notified if the child is absent already. Um, but this welfare check again is only if like all of these things stack up. So it's gotta be all of those and not just 10 days. So if you were like in a high school and you were absent nine days and all but one class and you Uintah one class, you would not be on this list.

Yeah. Um, I was wondering, I know you said there's no impact on grades, but then you said could be in the future there, so there, so can you just clarify that there, There are some conflicting, I, I'd like to think that they coexist. Um, but there is a little bit of a conflict with what I said. So, um, if, if this were to pass, I suppose a teacher could include up to 10%, um, as part of the active grade. Uh, and that's true. Um, one thing I didn't say about that is one of the arguments I'll make as a classroom teacher is a significant amount of learning comes from the conversations that you have with one another. And, uh, uh, I presented this earlier today, and like if I'm learning online, I don't have other people that I can talk to or ask for help and get reteaching, which reinforces my teaching, or I help teach someone which reinforces my teaching or say, gosh, that's kind of weird. I don't, you know. And so there is a significant amount of learning that takes place that is non measured, but it is an absolute part of the educational experience that kids just miss out on when they're not there. So, Okay, I can appreciate that. Um, I think some of the issues that you're talking about as far as kids not learning how to turn in their homework on time and making up stuff, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we Uintah proficiency, grace baiting or grading. And I can't say that I love the way that that has gone. And I, I feel like it has created a lot of issues, but I will say that it feels very much like if we're just rewarding kids for showing up and sitting in a seat and finding scholarships to pay kids who, you know, no matter their effort if they were just sitting there, um, can get access to pay for college, that feels very indirect contrast to a society that believes in meritocracy. And, um, you know, are, are we just wanting to create cogs in a wheel or, or are we a society that values, you know, innovators and entrepreneurs and, and people who, you know, know how to manage their time? I, I think if, if we're talking about, um, teaching kids work ethics so that they show up, there's, there's a difference between an hourly employee and a salary and employee. And if you're salaried, do you have a job to do and you can work it however you need to to make sure it gets done. And I feel like that is what I am interested in teaching my kids. And so when I think about, you know, if, if you're competent and you can take that test and, and test out of a class, um, that's very different, I think from going to school to learn. And maybe it takes a teacher 3, 4, 5 days to teach a concept to everyone in the classes, because I would also love to level our classes so they're all on the same level. Sure. But if a kid can grasp it in the first day or the second day and then, you know, pass a test in, in, you know, with an a i, I think that that's just showing that they know how to manage their time and, and they might just be, you know, able to excel in a certain topic more than others. And so I don't see the point of wanting to punish them for, you know, not wanting to just go sit in a seat and twiddle their thumbs. And so that's just an issue that I've, I've seen, you know, there's a wide variety of kids and I can appreciate wanting them in school, but if they're getting their work done, especially if it was on time and getting their, their tests done, I am, I have a hard time kind of disincentivizing from kids from learning those durable skill skills as far as time management and resource management. So anyway, that's kind of my thoughts right now. Okay.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Kanosh, is it okay if I respond to a few of those?

Um, I, I agree with a lot of those points, right? There's a lot of kids that show up. Um, I think they tend to be, and, and this is anecdotal from my experience, they tend to be the exception. Um, and those kids know when they need to show up and when they don't need to show up. Um, I would say like just showing up and sitting in a seat, uh, it's hard to get a good grade if you're just showing up and sitting in a seat. Like, I don't think those things correlate. And, and so, um, I don't think you'd be scholarship eligible in any of those situations just because you showed up and didn't do anything, right. Like, you've gotta be able to, to, to, to, to do the work as well too. Um, with the 10% piece, um, again, like you go to half, half of the term and you'll still get an a. So like, I, I don't think it's overly punitive in any way. Um, uh, there's other things I was gonna say, but I can't remember. I I will say this.

Um, uh, I I do have a couple of que just one clarifying question. So Representative Welton, you've got all this language about what happens if a student is absent and, and, uh, um, we just heard a bill and just passed, just recommended favorably from this committee, SB 58, uh, Senator Fillmore's bill that says in a much less prescriptive way that the LEA should craft a policy, um, once to deal with chronic absenteeism and it specify some things there. This would be a, this would take away their ability in that bill to craft a policy because it's very prescriptive about what we want them to do. Uh, what, what do we, what do we want to do here? Yeah.

Thank, thank you Mr. Chair. Um, actually the LEA can do whatever they want. It's just to participate in that, that scholarship. Then there's gotta be some consistent data that they can look at. So if Anis, so Yours would only apply in the event of the desire for them to use the citizenship grade as part of the scholarship, correct? Correct. Yeah. So if they decide this is not good for our kids, they don't have to do it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we hold HB 5 0 2

I would, I appreciate what the good sponsor is trying to do. I have a lot of respect for him and all of his work, but I have serious concerns with the language in the bill and what it empowers LEAs to do. Um, it seems very invasive and, uh, I think that there are, are, it would merit more conversation to try to find the right balance to really get at, hey, if a child isn't coming, um, to school, what are the issues? And I know that a lot of districts are already delving into this and they're already doing, um, some, some sort of this. And my concern is that this puts a requirement on all LEAs. And so anyway, I just, that's my motion. We'll see where the committee

I, I appreciate it. And understand the, uh, the motion to hold. I, I, I guess my one hesitancy is this bill was brought to this committee in interim on a reason to have a robust conversation. And I have tried on numerous occasions to have some of those conversations, particularly with those who had attendance bills. Um, there was a lot of talking around, but not two. And so that would be a little bit of a frustration, uh, on my side. But I also understand that there are a lot of parts to this and there is a lot of discussion. And so I'm, I'm the will of the committee.

Just voting. Okay. All right, thank you. Alright.

Waive. Alright.

Is that what the vote was? Sorry, I was trying to log on.

Okay. Alright. I didn't get a, a call to vote, but I was a No.

Okay, thank you. I move to favorably recommend HB 5 0 2 sub two sub. Need to move the sub need. Okay, We move the Sub. Okay. I move to adopt substitute two of HB 5 0 2.

Uh, I'll waive. All right, sub.

your light is on. I move Favorably. Recommend HB 5 0 2, substitute two.

I'll waive since it's almost seven o'clock.

Okay, so with that, I don't know what that means. I guess I, I, we vote next time I can't. Or is it dead? Or is it, I can't place the motion because we don't have a quorum.

It's it's just held by the committee. It's just still in the committee as position, basically. Yes. It's not been held. It's just in the committee's possession. There's no action taken on it. Okay.

Motion to aurn. Mr. Chair.

All good. Shoulda just had someone, what's that?

Perfect. Uh, I will be brief since we've already presented this bill. Uh, the only real change that we've had to, this one's the same bill we presented on Wednesday. Um, I'm speaking to substitute three, which strikes out the 10 day attendance piece. That seems to be where, uh, most, uh, committee members had heartache other than just attendance is a difficult thing for the audience and those who are here. I'll just rehash it real quick. So, so the public knows what we're talking about. So attendance is an issue. Uh, this is an attempt to, to address attendance issues. So it allows USBE to create a citizenship framework that's based off of attendance and turning work in and things like that. Uh, an LEA can opt into it if they want to or they cannot opt into it. That's totally up to them. Uh, if they opt into it, there is a separate scholarship fund that's created for private donations. It's not funded by the state. The second piece of this, uh, that now remains is, uh, it allows a test out option. So if a kid knows what they, the material they can test out of class, they don't have to be in class. Um, if they don't test out, uh, because they choose not to or they don't pass a test out option, then uh, they go to school. And a teacher can have up to 10% of their grade B on attendance. Um, you can miss half of your days and still get an A under that scenario. So it's not, uh, super heavy, but it does put a little bit of recognition on the idea that there is a significant amount of learning that takes place just by being present. So that is the bill.

Sure. Thank you. My name is Heidi Alder. I'm general counsel and government liaison for Weber School District, and I also work with a number of school districts around the state as a consultant and an attorney. And I just wanna thank Representative Welton for this bill. Attendance has been a major priority for this legislature for the last several years, and I think this bill is a perfect balance between all of the various concerns. Students need to be in school to learn, and I think all educators would attest to that. Also, if parents decide to excuse their students from school, this bill allows for that. So it doesn't take away any parent's rights to excuse their student for a valid excuse. I think this is a, a really strong message that lets parents know and students know, and educators know. We value students' attendance in school. And I would urge the committee to support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe it's the third sub. Yes, I move to adopt the third sub.

I appreciate the sponsor's willingness to work with the committee on the changes in this sub. Um, I think there might still be a need. There's, there's some additions to this sub bringing some of the language up from what we wanted removed. That I like just reviewing. I'm not sure I support that, but if the sponsor will commit to work with me on making sure that that language is not in there when we pass the final bill, I would support, um, moving this forward. But there's, in my quick review, because obviously we heard about this yesterday, we're in committee today. Um, and I, I haven't seen the sub what, in my quick review, it looks like some of the parts that we wanted removed are being moved to be still included in the bill. So, um, anyway, I just, I'm looking for a commitment from the sponsor that he'll continue to work with, with those who have concerns on the committee to make sure that the bill lands in a good place.

Um, I, I'm happy to continue to work and, um, trying to make a quick scan. I think, I think it's there, but if it's not, if we, if we have missed something, then I'm happy to work on that.

I'll waive. Alright.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we favorably recommend and appreciate the sponsor's willingness to continue to work. I think there's just a couple of tweaks that will fix the concerns and appreciate his time and energy in looking at this.

Waive. Alright.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee. This is, uh, not where I thought I'd be going and probably not what you thought you'd be hearing today, uh, in your committee, but, uh, this is an issue I've been working on for probably two years. Um, it's an issue that I brought before the Education Interim Committee presented kind of this idea, uh, early on, uh, in, in the set, in the, in the process to bring as many people together to talk about the issue. And it's been out there for a long, long, long time. Um, we've had a few people that have come to the, the table in the last couple of days that have, uh, some concerns, but this is an issue that we've been working on for a long time. So, uh, one of the things in education committee we've been looking on is like this level of chronic absenteeism. We used to be under 10% and now we're at like 30% chronic absenteeism. Like, it's really changed a lot since we got rid of truancy courts and things like that. I think online delivery also impacted that, COVID impacted that. Uh, but it's been very difficult for our teachers. It's been very difficult for educational outcomes. The data is very clear that those who are not in class perform significantly lower, uh, than their peers. So this bill, uh, having talked to a lot of different people, really tried to like, uh, thread some needles here because I know there's a lot of interested, uh, folks. Um, I kind of joke if I ask a hundred people what education or attendance policy should look like, I get 150 different answers. So I understand that it's a hot topic and, and a lot of people have different viewpoints. So there's two pieces to this. The first piece is, uh, in education world, there's some people who say an academic grade should be an academic grade and attendance and everything else should be completely separate. And there's a strong belief that those things should be separate. The problem is, is that the citizenship grade, uh, which has been around since as long as I can remember, I'm old and it was on my report cards as a kid on my citizenship grade. Um, but it doesn't have a lot of teeth and a lot of meaning anymore in our business world. In our colleges, we're actually seeing a lot of people are concerned that, that kids think deadlines are flexible. They show up whenever they want to work. All of these things that are really difficult to do. Um, and those impact the learning. So going on the presumption that an academic grade should be separate. We've got our academic grade separate, but we're trying to make the CI citizenship grade mean something. So what this bill does is it, it creates, it asks USBA to create a framework, uh, around a citizenship grade on what a citizenship grade should look like. And we're trying to get to the core of those things. And so if you look in there, uh, it's attendance meeting deadlines, class participation, uh, teacher communication. So we really tried to narrow it down to those things that help students be successful and to help them out. One of the hopes is by creating a framework. Uh, one of the other pieces of this bill is it creates a tax deductible scholarship fund. So if a private entity wanted to donate to it, and they said, Hey, we think that this is worthwhile, they can donate some money into it, there's a possible scholarship that could be available. Um, some of our higher ed institutions said we would like to have something that's, uh, better than A-A-A-A-G, more than just a GPA and a, um, an essay that you can write whatever you want, right? And so they want something that they can, can look at over time. So it creates those two separate things. You've got an academic grade, you've got a citizenship grade, uh, in the academic grade, uh, no LEA has to opt into this. This is completely optional. So if an LEA does not want to do this, they don't have to do this. The other piece is, uh, creating a test out option. So there are some people, like my kid knows everything, they don't need to be in class. And if they do that, it's great. We're gonna give them a test out option so they can take the class or they can take this test, they can opt out, they can get credit, they can move on to college, they can move on to work, they can move on to more advanced classes. They've got some options available to them. Uh, if the kid, if the student chooses not to opt out, um, or they don't pass the test, meaning that they need some instruction, then they would become, uh, uh, there would be up to 10% that the teacher could require as attendance on their grade. There's a little bit of pushback on that. They say, if I know what I know, then why do I have to be in class? Um, my argument has been is that a huge portion of the learning happens in the conversations that happen between students about what they're learning as they teach these reteach as they learn, as they talk about, uh, the history, the math, the science, all of those things. Those are very real part of their learning and they're missing out on that. So I'd argue that, that that's, uh, very important. Now, we can do like little, uh, we could probably measure that with assignments, but it would be a mis miserable class. And so I think this is the better way to do it in the test out option. It does, uh, grant, uh, uh, excuse options so you can excuse your student and have a not count towards that 10% of your grade for whatever your parent excuses are that your LEA allows. It would also allow school excused absences. So if you're very active and you're doing a lot of different things, this is not going to impact your grade negatively. If you happen to miss all of your classes and you're a good student, you know all the material and you can prove that you know it, the worst grade you'd get is 90%, which is an A or an A minus, depending on which scale you're at. Uh, nobody's gonna miss all of their, their classes. So the, the impact on a grade is very, very minimal. In fact, I would argue that it helps more students than it hurts. Uh, there is sub four that I'd like to speak to. Now. I sat down with, uh, um, some, some individuals, um, Natalie Klein and Monica Wilber specifically, and wanted to understand they had some pushback and some concerns, and I think they brought up some really good points that we tried to address. So on line 43, we changed the term to say develop state specific definitions. This is to make sure that we're not pulling in some curriculum from out of state. That is something that we don't want it to be. And so this is state specific. It's not a curriculum that exists anywhere else in code. Uh, we deleted some items, some lines that said, uh, lines with existing civic and character education. That's, no, we're not trying to major character education in this way, uh, since we, we, uh, deleted those lines. Um, we also put in a line on line 60 that says the LAA can opt in, but we are also creating an option so a parent can opt out. So if a parent really feels like this goes too far, they can opt out, we'll notify them yearly that there is an opt out option. So they always know and they can opt out their student if they don't want to participate. Now, if there is scholarship money that happens to come from private donations, then they would be ineligible for that. Uh, but they would have the ability to opt out. So that is the bill in a nutshell.

I was speaking to the changes in the fourth substitute.

You're looking for? Um, if, if the body, I think it's, I think it's good policy. I think there's some, some good concerns that were brought up. Um, I don't know that it's necessary, but I think it's good policy.

You have Yeah, I'd like question. I'd go ahead and make the motion to substitute with an, then I've got a couple of questions after that, if that's okay. So I'd make a motion that we delete entitled and body third substitute has bill 5 0 2 and replace it with four substitute 5 0 2.

And to follow up, just a couple of questions. Um, you mentioned that, you know, the LEA doesn't have to do this. It's, it's optional. How many have you talked to that are you think, how, how, I guess, how much popularity is it gonna get? How many districts do you think will imp implement it?

That's a good question, and I don't have that answer. I did not take a poll of, of LEAs.

I guess the follow up question I saw on the third substitute, there was a fiscal note. Uh, I assume the fiscal note pretty much carry over to the four substitute. And if that's the case, is it funded?

This has been funded, yeah. On the house side, this has been funded. Okay. Thank you.

This is for the test out option. That's what the fiscal note is for. Okay, thanks. Yep.

Thank you. My name's Tamara Watson. I'm the Director of Communications for the Utah Association of Public Charter Schools. We would like to thank our good friend, the sponsor for his work on this bill. He truly has come to the table and worked with us and discussed our concerns. And so as an association, we want to voice our support and ask you to pass this bill. The thing that, that we think that it accomplishes is consider if we as representatives, lobbyists, personnel opted to not show up 30% of the time up here in the 45 days, what kind of things could we accomplish? And so what message are we sending to students when we say, Hey, you can, uh, fault 30% of the time. There's something about community, something about society that we learn as we bring people together and we network. So, uh, we hope that you will send the message to our students that it is important to show up and be part of your community. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Casey Hill. I represent, um, a consortium of education associations in the state, Davis Granite, Provo Nebo, and Carbon. Um, and just wanted to point out that one of the challenges that our teachers face is, is chronic absenteeism. Um, so this bill that, uh, Representative Welton is working on, we, we strongly support, and we just use this as an opportunity to point out that teachers are graded upon their student's performance, which is fair to a certain extent, but you cannot teach an empty chair. And, um, and so it's important that we set up incentives and ways that, uh, students who, uh, choose not to attend, who believe that they can, uh, not attend and still be able to succeed in, in a traditional education setting, that they're, that that's available to them. But at the same time, um, that teachers are given the best opportunity to teach their students so that not only can those students learn, but that when it comes right down to it, when schools and teachers are being, you know, judged based upon the performance of those kids, um, really the only way that that judgment can be fair is to make sure that we are doing all that we can to get those kids in the classroom.

Yeah. Thank you Mr. Chair. I would make a motion we favorably recommend for substitute house Bill 5 0 2

Thank you. I've really tried to work hard to, uh, find a path that supports teachers and parents try to use the scalpel and not a sledgehammer on this. And, uh, provide protections for those with concerns to make sure that we weren't going beyond the scope. And so, um, this will support our educators, it'll support educational outcomes. And I would, uh, thank you for your consideration.

Appreciate the, the presentation and you know, I learned a few things today, so thanks. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Prote. I'd like to reserve the right to make a motion

Um, colleagues, this is a bill that I've been working on for, for quite some time. As you know, we have a major attendance problem in our schools and trying to t tackle that is very difficult. If you've been in education committee or heard me talk about this, I often say if I ask a hundred people what the attendance policy should look like, I get at least 150 different answers. Meaning that it's a difficult subject that not everyone can agree on. And so I've spent a lot of time trying to work on this. This is a bill that we brought, uh, at interim and that we've worked on it several times and, and made a lot of changes to it. What this bill does is two simple things. Number one, there's a lot of arguments that say that an academic grade should be an academic grade, it should not be, uh, attendance and nothing like that should ever impact an academic grade. And so what a lot of people have done is you have your academic grade and then you have your citizenship grade. And those are two separate issues. And so an effort to stay true to that and to making a citizenship grade mean something. And when we say citizenship grade, this is what we had when we were in elementary school. My report caught. I had, I was excellent, satisfactory whatever, uh, on citizenship grade, and that was what my mom cared about more than anything else. But we've kind of moved away from that where it doesn't mean as much as it used to. So this does two things on the citizenship grade separate. It separates academics from citizenship. And on the citizenship grade, it will allow USB. It asks USBE to make a model, uh, citizenship policy that's centered around attendance, uh, meeting deadlines, excuse me, meeting deadlines, engagement and communication. So those skills that help you be workforce ready. We have a lot of people saying, our students are going into the workforce and they're not ready. They don't know how to show up. They don't know how to meet deadlines. And so USBU will create a model policy, site policy LEAs have the option to opt into this or not. They don't have to opt into it if they don't want to. They can do their own thing. They don't have to be part of this if they opt into it. There's two things that might happen. Number one is there is a, a tax deductible scholarship fund that's created that private, uh, sector can donate into. They say, Hey, you know what? We're really concerned about attendance and we want to put some money behind this. And so, uh, if your LEA participates in that, there's a tax deductible fund that you could, that that could be used on this. Uh, the tax deductible fund in the bill is set to go away. If nobody donates to it, it won't stay in per perpetuity. And so we have a dissolution to that. The other thing it does, um, oh, the other thing is, uh, a lot of our higher education institutions said, you know, when we're giving people scholarship money from our donors, we want to know that they're going to take the money and use it really well. And so we would be interested in having something that is consistent and measurable that we can look at over a space of years that we can factor into our, our GPA and and things like that. And so they've expressed some interest into that. There's nothing that says that they have to do it, but it's a, a tool that's a available to them. So that's the first piece is to, uh, to create a framework there that could be used. The next piece is kinda going back to what an academic grade is. What you should know is it creates a test out option. So in core classes, it has the ability for you to test out of class. If you know the material you can test out and you get credit like a KLE test like you would in college. This is great for kids who are advanced and know what they need to do. Hey, if they can't test out, what the other piece of the grade, uh, of the bill does is it says you are now subject to attendance, but being part of your grade. And it'll allow teachers to have up to 10% attendance on their grade. There are some people who, who really struggle with us. We have a whole bunch of high achievers in this, in this building that can, uh, never go to class and they get high scores. Uh, my argument is that, uh, attendance is absolutely crucial to your crucial to your learning. There is so much learning that takes place when a teacher teaches something and then you are relearning. You're reteaching your neighbors, you're discussing the topics that we're taught. There is a crucial amount of learning that's going in that you don't get if you're not there at 10%. This gives our teachers some flexibility in the classroom. Uh, but if you're a kid that knows everything and you're doing everything right and you miss a hundred percent of the days, the worst grade you would get is an A minus. And actually, for most people, it's still an a, uh, a lot of people are gotten rid of the A minuses. If you go to half of your classes, you would get an A. So this has very little impact on an academic grade, but it does have some incentive to be in class. Uh, that's essentially what the bill does.

Um, if I may speak to my motion now,

Yeah. This is a simple clarification. So if you notice there's a fiscal note on there. When this amendment passes, I anticipate there will be no fiscal note on this at all. This changes a shall to a may, and it would allow LEAs to create their own test out options. And we changed the words assessment from standards. Uh, apparently, uh, the USBA folks say if I say assessment for a test out option, that means it has to be the same level of the RISE test, which is not what we currently require in any of these in, in these classes in most situations. And so, uh, that would allow LEAs to do it versus USBE. And it also changes it to be standard. So it's, it's, uh, lowers the, the cost of creating a test out option.

It does. Thank you. Representative MacPherson.

Thank Thank you. Mr. Speaker ProAm, just have a, a number of questions. If, uh, the speaker would be willing to yield, Will the representative yield to a series of questions?

Yes, sir. Uh, Representative Lisonbee yield.

Thank you. Um, so there's a lot of good things in this bill. Um, there are a couple of things that I've still had concerns with, and I'm looking specifically at the attendance based grading. I know you'd mentioned that 10%, but it also looks like that LEAs can adopt up to 20% of the student's final grade, um, as well as including policies that may permit LEAs to ignore, uh, excused absences as well. Can you talk me through that portion?

Yeah. So the, the 20% is, uh, giving LEAs the option. And by the way, they don't like doing this. They've kind of moved to like, like, um, attendance should be separate from your grade, but this would be specifically, uh, for classes like pe choir, band dance. Like if you're not there, then, then you're not learning pe, band choir, things like that. So this would just give them the option. They don't have to do it. Um, but it does give an option to go a little bit more on, on some specific classes as far as the, uh, um, oh, so the, the other piece, uh, so excuse absences are not calculated into it. And that's, I'm, I'm glad that you brought that up because what that means is if you're gone on vacation to Hawaii, if you're sick, if you're things like that, that will not calculate towards the 10% of your grade, that is exempted. And so it will not impact you negatively. And so we're trying to make sure that that, uh, parents who want to take their kids on vacation or any of those things are not, uh, negatively impact in this.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Rotem, just to clarify that on line 1 57, it says that it may permit that an LEAs policy may per may permit valid excused absences, but that seems to indicate that they may also not permit valid excused absences. It appears that might be true.

Oh, wait, sorry, what line is that again?

Line 1 57 Premier valid excused absences defined, I guess Mr. Speaker prom. My question would be, should that read, they shall require valid excused absences to be excluded.

Oh, sorry. If, if I may, Mr. Speaker, uh, it goes on, may permit valid excuse absences is defined to be excluded, that means valid absences will be excluded.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker rot. Tam, I'm, I'm under the impression that the word may and the word shall are very, very different in our code. And that may is an optional and shall is required. Can I get some clarification again on this particular section? The way I'm reading it, this is, is that a LEA may permit valid excused absences to be excluded from this policy, but that's optional under the word may.

It is as it's written. And I think that was an intent for every district to be able to define what a valid excused absence was.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Otam. I, I think I would still have, I know there's a lot of good parts of this, and I know the good sponsors worked long and hard on this. Um, I, I, I still have some concerns over the, the particular language on this bill. Um, and, uh, I think that we should try to make some adjustments to it before passing the floor.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro Tem. I'm so happy to see this bill. I'll go back quite a a few years, but when I was teaching, uh, many parents who came to parent teacher conferences were as interested in their student citizenship grade as they were in their academic grade. And they felt like their students, if they did their homework, if they were attended, those were things that counted if they were respectful, that that meant they were, uh, going to be good citizens. And it it tied in with what they thought education should be about. And so I'd often say they're more interested in that. Um, someone who's been a superintendent of two different districts that you see up here in the capitol sometime after this hearing said, uh, I wanna show you my report card when I was young. And it had a whole list of things. It was a citizenship mark. And he said, see, I was in this column. My parents said, you better come up to the next column next time. So when we had, um, three superintendents a year ago from, I think it was Weber County and to the Education Committee, and they said on any given day, 20% of the students were absent. Now you cannot learn if you're not in school. So I think this is a good start to giving some incentive, but also giving parents the right to take their kids out of school for reasons that they can determine for themselves. But I'm really pleased to see us move forward. I'd like to see us move forward in this, in this area. Thank you

Thank you. Mr. Speaker ProAm, would the sponsor yield to a question sponsor yield?

I will. Thank you. Sponsor will yield.

I'm, I'm just curious if you could walk me through this. So it appears that if a student were to test out of a class and be able to transfer or go, go to a college rather than to a high school, um, is, is that a scholarship or did they do concurrent enrollment? How, what, what's the impact on the college, I guess?

Uh, thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm, there's actually no impact on college. This doesn't move a student to college. It just says if you're enrolled in English 10 and you can test out of English 10, you get credit without having to sit in the seat for a year. The student can then take whatever other classes they want to fill that space. They can do work release, they can do whatever they want to. They just get credit for that class 'cause they proved competency.

Another question, please.

Sponsor yield. Just clarifying if, uh, so a student who qualifies for concurrent enrollment and they do decide to go to college, if they've tested out and they've completed all of their high school, then does the college have a expense there or is that expense covered somehow? Uh, I, I'm not sure I understand the question, Mr. Speaker. I we're talking like core classes, concurrent enrollment classes actually are in their own category. And so these would be your, your core math, science, English, uh, not your concurrent enrollment Math, science, English classes.

Yes. Thank you Mr. Speaker Peram. I rise in strong support of this bill. Um, I think we have heard over and over, um, over the last four or five years how much of an issue chronic absenteeism is in our schools. And, um, as I've talked to teachers to try to understand what the problem is, I think the pendulum has just swung so far the other way where, where attendance at school has really become optional. And, uh, I applaud the good sponsor and really trying to tackle this issue and find the right balance, um, especially in a world where it, it's not just parents or the legislature that's kind of moved to, to make this more optional, but, but really even within the administrators of the school that have moved to this competency based education and, and moving all grades based on competency. Now I understand the idea at its face that makes a lot of sense. If you've mastered the material, then your grade should reflect that you've mastered the material. The the problem is that school and the, the grades that we receive are not just based on whether or not you understand the material it is trying to prepare these kids to be successful in life and being successful in life means more than you know, the material. And I think you've all seen that in jobs that, that we've worked in the, we have to teach people to show up on time to get assignments done, to, um, be able to work well with each other. And if they're not in the class and soaking in that knowledge, they don't get those opportunities. Um, we've given lots of options for choice in this state. And if there are kids where, where being in a classroom where they have other, um, activities that interfere with them being able to attend school or in the way, then there are options for them to still get the same type of opportunities without having to take up a seat. But if you have committed to being in a public school and and registered for a class, then I think it's fair to say an expectation of that class is that you're going to be there for a certain period of time and that your grade is going to have some basis for that period of time that you're in. And so I think this moves us in the right direction. I don't think we've gone too far, but it balances out that pendulum to ensure that our kids are learning what they need to learn. And I'll just say, I, I've heard from many teachers that say they'll show up to a certain class and they'll have 30, 40, 50% of their kids not in class that day, um, because we've just allowed for excused absences. Uh, they later come in and, and say, well, I, I need the assignment. We allow them to give the assignment. It's putting extra burdens on our teachers. It's not teaching the kids fundamental skills that they're going to need to be successful in life. And I think because of that, we really need this step with, with this bill. So thank you

I appreciate the vote of the wisdom of the youth in in the bo in the room. Um, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to address a few things. We talked a lot about pendulums shifting and one of the things that's happened over the times is we have a tendency to move the pendulum too far. And I think this is one of those cases where we have moved way too far on attendance and I've worked really, really hard to not swing the pendulum back too far in the other direction. I think this is a finely crafted piece of legislation that really, uh, threads the needle really well on, uh, competency and preparing students for, for the work. Excuse me, for the workforce. When we talk about education, there's a lot of reasons why we educate. And one of the reasons that I love is the, is we educate people for the love of learning and to be lifelong learners, uh, and not to be cogs in the will. Um, but also there is a very real portion of learning where we are teaching students and preparing them to be workforce ready. And one of the ways we do that is making sure that they know the jobs. Every job has hoops. This job has hoops. Every job has hoops and there are jobs. I do find it offensive to think that, uh, sitting in a seat is, is, is, is doing nothing. And you're, you're anchored to a seat and there's nothing else you can do. We have very clear carve outs in this bill that don't penalize you. If you take your child to the symphony, it's very clear in the bill that this does not hurt your ability to do that. So, um, this creates accountability, uh, for behaviors. One of the things we're trying to address, uh, we've worked on on behaviors, we worked on vaping and all sorts of things in schools to try to create some accountability. This is a very minimal step to help our students be education and workforce ready. And I would urge your support on this bill.

Thank you. Um, purpose of this bill and, and you'll see that it's a forced substitute. There's been a lot of work with stakeholders is to create a citizenship framework based on attendance, deadlines, class engagement, communication. This is a program that's optional. LEAs may participate. There's also parents can opt out. This also creates a tax exempt scholarship fund, uh, creates a tax, a test out option for core classes. And it allows teachers to include up to 10% of attendance as part of the grade if a student doesn't test out. With that, I'm open for questions.

I waive summation to move. This bill passed. Thank you.

Senator Vickers. Baldy Aye. Lewin Aye. Brammer. Bus Cullimore. Escamia. Aye. Fillmore Aye. Roper Harper. Kins. Ipson Aye. Johnson Juab McKay. Mackel. Aye. Milner Musselman Owens Pitcher Pitcher. Plum Bie Sandal Stevenson. Okay. Stratton pickers. Aye. Byler Wilson. Aye. Winterton Kins Juab. President Adams No.

Thank you President. Uh, this bill addresses forestry, fire, and fire related issues.

It's, it's apparent to me I didn't do a very good job explaining this bill. And, and I I think we've got a great bill before us. I, I think we've, we've talked about it just as, as we've visited offline, um, years ago we dealt with truancy and we made it a lot easier for kids not to go to school. I think ultimately that that was a mistake. And I think this bill is a step in the right direction to enhance inten attendance. And I think it's important that we do that. And I think we've created, we've, we've hit the right balance. I, this was a bill that went through the committee unanimously nobody spoke against it and I, I probably didn't do a very good job explaining it. I think we've got a good bill before us with provisions that safe safeguard this. So it's, it's never abused, but I, I think it's a principle and a policy getting, getting kids in the seat, having them there I think is, is helpful and it's been a problem. With that, I'd urge support.

I do. Motion to UNC fifth substitute house Bill four 50. We have a motion to Uncer fifth. Substitute to house Bill four 50 to add privacy amendments.

Yeah, this, this talks about, this is a data privacy bill

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to Concur.

Are actually amendments that, that I requested after meeting with a couple members of higher ground and they brought out some, some good points. This creates a Parent Optout option. It also specifies that we're looking at state specific and not national curriculum options. And so I appreciate their discussion with me. I think this, this makes the bill even better than it was before and I would make the motion to or recommend that we concur with the Senate amendments.