Bills / H.B. 512 / Transcript

H.B. 512 Land Surveyors Licensing Amendments: transcript

Everything said about this bill in committee and on the floor, speaker by speaker. Each time links to that moment in the official video. Back to the bill: summary and every vote →

Transcribed from the Legislature's recordings by software, with speakers identified from the video; it can contain errors. Check the recording before quoting anyone.

House Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Environment Committee, Feb 19, 2026

Committee chair35:21
A i Next we'll go to, uh, I don't see representative gracious. Oh, she's Right there. Oh, there she is. He was hiding behind the chair. Come on up the front row. Sorry. HP recommend five 12 Land Surveyors licensing amendments. Go ahead. Go ahead, representative.
Rep. Stephanie Gricius35:44
Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee. And I've got Trent Williams with the surveyors here with me to help answer questions. Um, but really the bill does two things. First, it brings in the 2022 plane coordinate system. The ones that we're currently using are either from 1927 or 1983 according to statute. Now practice has already updated. This is one of those where, because we are the government and we are always slow, we are a few years behind the curve. Um, so it just updates that while still allowing for those older lines to be used on historical maps. So you're not gonna see any shift in property lines. Nothing will change. We are just recognizing what is already best practice. Um, it also, there was a conversation we started last year about pathways to licensure. And the surveyors have done an amazing job at going through, um, and identifying what they believe some alternatives would be. You'll see those starting down online at 3 27. But it's a list all the way from an associate to a high school diploma with certain levels of experience. All of those still include a competency test. Um, and that was some work that we asked them to do last year and they've done great. So if Representative Koford wanted to become a surveyor, she could choose any of these pathways. Take that test and go knock it out. And if you don't, do you have anything that you wanted to add? Uh, no. I just wanted to just make sure that
Committee chair37:04
State your name and, oh, yes.
Trent Williams, Utah Council of Land Surveyors37:05
Trent Williams with the Utah Council of Land Surveyors. Just want to re reiterate what Representative said here is, is our mapping bill does not change anything as far as property lines or legal descriptions, is really the underlying, um, functions that our, either our serving equipment does or our online mapping equipment does. It's, it's all just that background information there. Um, and bringing us up to date, and then we rep we with, uh, the serving bill. We would take Representative Koford. Uh, serving is historically a very male dominated society, so we do need some women in there. So opening these alternate paths in would be wonderful. That concludes our presentation.
Committee chair37:44
Uh, do you want to speak to the amendment number one?
Rep. Stephanie Gricius37:47
Oh, yes. Sorry, I forgot about that. I have it circled and starred on my paper, but it's also 8:00 AM um, no amendment one. So with our international reciprocity statutes, we actually have 'em at one year. Um, and I didn't catch that when we did the original draft, so it's just bringing it into compliance with whatever the rest of our code is already set to. Thank you. I'll bring it back to committee for questions.
Committee chair38:10
Representative Chew.
Rep. Scott H. Chew38:13
Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I'm always interested when we have something that deals with surveying, and I'm just curious to, uh, um, if, if I see a legal description that says W2, W four, S two, uh, R 23 ET five s, what would that be?
Trent Williams, Utah Council of Land Surveyors38:32
Same question. Yes, I like it. Uh, so, uh, real quick history lesson here is, uh, Thomas Jefferson, when he was Secretary of State, created a system that puts the entire country into a one mile square called sections. So S 24 s, whatever is section 24. And then TT is for township and R is for range. So the southeast corner of Temple Square is the beginning of all survey mapping for the state of Utah. All legal descriptions and property is tied to that southeast corner mathematically through legal descriptions. So when you see, uh, that series of code there, so section 24 is part of the grid system. Township is a north, south grid ranges East West. So anything TS five North is north, five townships north of Temple Square, T five South is south. So it's a, it's a way to kind of slowly localize us into an area where a legal description would begin and where you guys own your property.
Rep. Scott H. Chew39:25
So, uh, the, what's the name of that corner down there on, uh, the southeast corner?
Trent Williams, Utah Council of Land Surveyors39:30
So it's the Basin Meridian is what we call that Salt Lake base.
Rep. Scott H. Chew39:33
Me. It's Salt Lake Basin Meridian? Yes. Okay.
Committee chair39:35speaker not certain
Thank you. Nice test Representative. Chew.
Rep. Scott H. Chew39:40
So when I'm out in the mountains hunting and I come up onto, uh, one of these little section corners, I guess you call 'em mm-hmm. Take a picture and send it to me. You'll give me the same description. Yes. Only a different range township.
Trent Williams, Utah Council of Land Surveyors39:57speaker not certain
Correct. Mr. Chair.
Unknown speaker39:59speaker not certain
Your onyx doesn't usually include this level of detail. Well, I know Representative Chew, run a bill yesterday, uh, about, uh, water in the Senate Natural Resource Committee, and he discussed the Salt Lake Meridian. So he's testing you.
Rep. Scott H. Chew40:15speaker not certain
I like it. I appreciate it. So
Committee chair40:18speaker not certain
Go ahead. Thank
Rep. Scott H. Chew40:19
you, Mr. Chair. You know, uh, it's interesting. In, in my area, uh, a lot of those brass caps, whether they're section corners or quarter corners or whatever they're called, um, they'll also have the date that they were surveyed. And in my area, they, they vary somewhere between 1916 and 1949. And yet in this part of the state, uh, I assume they're probably, uh, quite a bit prior to that. Yes. Yeah, we saw as early as 1890. Anyway, it's an interesting thing. I always like when I ride by one to, to see it, but I gotta tell you, my grandpa drug a chain, when they chained our, when they, uh, rain, when they surveyed our part of the country, and if you're ever out riding with him and you rode across one, he'd say, let's go find the one that's, you know, over such and such. And we'd just go riding, whether it was in the timber or what. And when we would get there, get close to it, he'd say, it's gotta be right here. And we would be within 50 feet of it. Just his, his sense after dragging that chain for three years, why, uh, he knew where he was at for sure. Anyway, just an interesting thing kinda brings back some memories and I appreciate the good sponsor bringing it here.
Unknown speaker41:25speaker not certain
Thank you. Has, has the whole state been mapped out then?
Trent Williams, Utah Council of Land Surveyors41:29
Yes, the whole state's been mapped out. Certainly there's still efforts of, uh, memorializing those. We still have some, what we would call original stones from a year that those 1890 ones. And so county surveyors in the state of Utah are charged with overseeing that. Um, and, and then us as private surveyors help do that as we retrace those. So the whole state's been mapped and it's continuing to be remapped and checked and protected.
Committee chair41:53
Representative Chu's story reminded me of a story, and we've got time this morning. I don't see representative, representative ER's.
Unknown speaker42:03speaker not certain
Uh oh. There he is. Uh, his, uh, I guess it would've been your uncle Dalton Oak. Dalton Erland great Uncle. Okay, great uncle. Uh, it was a rainy, snowy day on the Parker Mountain, and I was with my brother, and we pulled up to, uh, this little jeep that Dalton Erland was driving, and he was pulling a chain. And my brother said, Dalton, why are you pulling that chain? And he said, it's a whole lot better than pushing it.
Trent Williams, Utah Council of Land Surveyors42:40speaker not certain
Uh, chair. Could, can I maybe clarify something for, for those that don't know, you guys are talking about chain, which is a unit of measurement that ancient surveyors use. That's the way the country was laid out. These one mile squares, it's chain is 66 feet. Um, so the entire country, all these squares, these miles were laid out with chains and over. And, um, which is a pretty impressive feat that they hit these within two or three feet of their intended location. Um, and the history that we represent as surveyors to protect the public boundaries, the public interests with our licensure, and then to, uh, retrace these, these ancient measurements is quite a privilege that we hold Very sacred.
Committee chair43:16
Thank you. Now, does that conclude your presentation? Oh, we got more questions. Excuse me. Representative Owens. Sorry.
Rep. Doug Owens43:23
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanna say that ever since I met the good representative from the basin, that I had a deep seated sense that he was my moral superior, and he's the guy who taught me to drink, not to drink downstream from where the herds in the water. And, uh, and I, I've just had it reconfirmed how, how much he is my moral superior here today. I appreciate his comments and questions. Thank you.
Committee chair43:52
We'll get back on track here. Now, seeing no further questions from the committee, is there anybody in the public that would like to comment? Seeing none? No. Online I'll close public comment and bring it back to Committee for action.
Committee chair44:12
Representative Shipp?
Rep. Rex P. Shipp44:14
Yeah. Thank you Mr. Chair. So I'd like to move no amendment. I'd like to make a motion to move Amendment one
Committee chair44:24
Motion's in order. Would you like to speak to it?
Rep. Stephanie Gricius44:27
I'll waive To the sponsor. Thanks. It's just to bring consistency with other sections.
Committee chair44:32
Okay. I'll, uh, place that motion that we pass out. Uh, amendment one to House Bill five 12 Land Surveyors licensing amendments. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Do you wanna carry on? Did you have a question
Rep. Rex P. Shipp44:51speaker not certain
After this motion? Say again? After, after, after we've moved the bill? Yes.
Committee chair44:57
Okay. Go ahead, Representative Shipp.
Rep. Rex P. Shipp45:00
Yeah, uh, I move that we pass that with a Fable recommendation HB five 12 as amended. That motion's in order. Would you like to speak to it?
Rep. Scott H. Chew45:11speaker not certain
I wave not been that Story. There's been plenty of speaking to it. I'd have a story, but I, I'll I'll wave this time To, to the sponsor.
Committee chair45:22
Thank you. And we'd happily take yourself and Representative Chew as well under these new, these new guidelines. Appreciate the, uh, the discussion and the story time this morning. Thank you. Further, uh, discussion to the motion. Seeing none, I'll, I'll place that motion, uh, that we pass out.
Committee chair45:40
Uh, HB five 12 as amended Land Surveyors licensing amendments by Representative Grisha. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Now go ahead.
Rep. Jill Koford45:52
I was going to ask if it would be appropriate to place this on the consent calendar and to make that motion
Committee chair45:59
It's appropriate. Does it help at this stage in the game? Probably, probably that motion's in order, So I wanna comment on the motion. Okay, Go ahead.
Rep. Scott H. Chew46:09speaker not certain
So, so, uh, I think that you probably got a good, uh, bill to, to put on the consent calendar, but I, I, I kind of, uh, would maybe be disappointed. I think we wouldn't be able to share some of our stories on the floor, but, uh, but I do feel like this probably needs to move forward. And so, uh, for that reason why, uh, I'll contemplate being okay with that, uh, motion.
Committee chair46:38
So your motion's in order. Further discussion. Seeing none, uh, that we place, uh, this bill on the consent agenda, uh, sponsor. Would you like to speak to that?
Rep. Stephanie Gricius46:49
I'm, I'm happy to put an email together of all of Representative Chew stories to share with the entire floor at the appropriate time. That'd be a long email. That's why it's an email, not a meeting
Committee chair47:02
Motion. All in favor of putting this bill on the consent agenda. Say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Congratulations. Thank you.
Rep. Stephanie Gricius47:09speaker not certain
Thank you, committee. Alright,

Senate Business and Labor Committee, Feb 27, 2026

House floor, Feb 23, 2026

Meeting Clerk13:08
for its consideration matter. Meeting Clerk House Bill five 12 Land Surveyors licensing amendments by representative Gracious. This bill was heard in Natural Resources, agriculture and Environment with the vote of 8 0 6. Representative gracious.
Speaker Pro Tem (presiding)13:22
Representative gracious.
Rep. Stephanie Gricius13:24
Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro Tem. This updates, um, the system that we use, it's already currently being used, but our code still represents back from between 20 and 60 years ago, depending on which section that you look at it. Um, I did promise a couple of the, uh, natural resourcefully inclined representatives, um, that I would share some of their stories, but they did not get those to me, so you'll have to send an email. Um, it also just clarifies some things in licensing that we'd asked them to do this most recent year and they've done a great job.
Speaker Pro Tem (presiding)14:02
Thank you. Rep Sam Grisha voting is open on HB five 12 Land surveyors licensing amendments in all present, having voted Representative Teuscher, Representative Burton voting will be closed house bill five 12, having received 66 yay votes and zero nay votes passes, the house will be transmitted to the Senate for further consideration. Madam Meeting Clerk

Senate floor, Mar 4, 2026

President Adams (presiding)23:06
shall House Bill five 12 pass. Roll call vote.
Unknown speaker23:08
Senator Vickers Baldy Lein Brammer Bus Colmore Escamia Fillmore Grover Harper Kinins Ipsen Johnson. Quan McKay. I can read Mikel Milner. Musselman Owens pitcher Plum Bie Sandal Stevenson Stratton
Sen. Evan J. Vickers23:56
Bickers Aye.
Unknown speaker23:58
Weiler Wilson Winterton.
Sen. J. Stuart Adams24:04
President Adams Aye.
President Adams (presiding)24:06
House Bill five 12. Having received 26 yay votes. Zero nay votes. Three being absent passes his body will be signed by the president. Returned to the house for the signature of the speaker.
President Adams (presiding)24:17
First substitute. And this is the last bill and consent today.
President Adams (presiding)24:28
Senator Stratton.
Sen. Chris H. Wilson24:32
Senator Wilson. Motion To circle sponsors off the floor.
President Adams (presiding)24:35
Motion to circle. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Roll. That motion passes. The bill is circled.
Unknown speaker24:44speaker not certain
It's hard for me. Let's move to the third. Yes. Circle. Sure They wouldn't find it.
President Adams (presiding)25:04
Okay, Let's move to the third reading calendar.