H.B. 514 Utah Energy Council Amendments: transcript

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair and committee members. Uh, thank you for accommodating the, uh, schedule today. Looks like you've had a, a full agenda, which is great. Um, I'm here to speak to House Bill five 14 Energy Council Amendments. Um, the Energy Council was, uh, created last session. There were, it was an interesting dynamic where there were two bills, uh, good, uh, Representative Albrecht and I both ran bills that, uh, because it was, we're in the same section code, uh, uh, created the energy council. This was, uh, um, at, uh, Senator, or, sorry, representative Albrecht's, uh, idea. And it's been a great thing that's now launched. The Energy Council is up and running. Um, we've had a number of meetings. We're starting to work on some important issue. They're starting to work on some important issues. Um, in the Energy Council, it's tasked with leading out on, um, energy state energy strategy, and dev and, and, uh, state energy priorities, trying to figure out how to, uh, move us forward, uh, in cooperation with the Office of Energy Development. Um, and, uh, the bill before us makes a couple of adjustments to the Energy Council, and I'm happy to, I'll walk you through those. And, and then it makes a structural, uh, proposal, which I think is gonna be, I believe is going to be, uh, really, uh, impactful in terms of our state's energy policy. So the first thing that it does is it increases the Energy Council membership from five to seven members. And it, uh, provides, uh, right now in, in the current version, it provides for one of those members, uh, to be the executive director of the Governor's Office of Economic Opportunity or a designee. And then it, it authorizes the, um, co-chairs of the committee, uh, of the, sorry, of the Energy Council to appoint another member who has experience in, uh, public utilities bonding or public finance or other relevant legal matters. And so it leaves that to the discretion of the Energy Council, uh, co-chairs. It also makes an adjustment, um, to the way, uh, that the Energy Council is being chaired right now. Right now, the chair is, um, the, uh, uh, director of Office of Energy Development. And it creates a co-chair situation that will start in the summer. Um, I'll just note to the committee members, there is some, uh, discussion going on about that. But that's, that's the current proposal before us. Um, and so that'll expand, uh, the Energy Council to, uh, seven members. Um, a second thing that the Energy Council Amendments does is it designates the, uh, energy Council as the State Energy Financing Institution, which is a specific, uh, function for federal grants or some federal financing tools, specifically related to energy. So this capacity, um, will allow us to work with the federal government on, uh, initiatives that would allow us to qualify for either grant or financing, uh, that are specifically related to those federal, uh, those federal programs. Um, there's not anything addition to that that we are doing except for making that designation. Um, the last item, which is, uh, which is really the, uh, significant portion of the, uh, new text in Energy Council amendments. It seeks to give the energy Council, um, authorization to, uh, issue, uh, uh, to issue, uh, bonds or other forms of, uh, uh, debt on behalf of, uh, context and explain what's actually happening here. Um, in, in the past, um, multiple times, uh, our state has, uh, essentially supported energy infrastructure development. So, um, just because it's an easy one to ex uh, to appoint to, there are others out there, but I'm, I'm going to, I'm gonna use it as an example. 40 years ago, we created Intermountain Power Agency, a political subdivision in the state of Utah. Um, that entity, uh, issued debt to build, um, recently its gener, its issued debt to build, um, uh, two natural gas fired power generation units. The most recent issue for the gas units was about $1.8 billion. It's a substantial investment, um, that was issued under state issuing authority, um, for the purpose of building energy infrastructure. Um, in this particular case, uh, that, uh, political subdivision retains ownership of those assets. Um, but it doesn't operate the day-to-day, uh, affairs. It's operated, it's operated through an operating agent. What we're proposing to do here is instead of having a, uh, political subdivision that is, um, just represents a portion of the state's interests, um, engaged in energy development for a portion of the state's residents, what we're proposing to do is authorize the energy council in an appropriate way. And by the way, when I say an appropriate way, we're working with the legislative fiscal analyst, we're working with the treasurer. We're working with the governor's office to make sure that this all happens, uh, in the right way. Um, and that we don't, uh, that we specifically do not commit the full faith and credit of the state of Utah that we're working in, um, uh, capacity where these would be, um, limited to the revenues that would, um, be generated from, uh, the, uh, from the operation of these assets. The, the, the repayment obligations would be limited to the, to the, uh, revenue that would be generated from them. But what we're trying to do is, in an appropriate way to get out in front of some very significant statewide interests as it relates to energy development. And if I can speak to that just briefly, and then I'll, uh, go to the committee for questions. Um, on the statewide interests, right now, what we're doing is we're working very hard in the state of Utah to clear regulatory, uh, issues that might slow down or, uh, stall energy development, uh, in Utah. Um, but one of the biggest challenges to getting energy infrastructure on the ground is actually financing and capital. And one of the, one of the reasons why that's a big challenge is because historically energy infrastructure, uh, has changed. It started out where, um, energy was, uh, electricity, speaking specifically to electricity. It was a local product, and it was, we, we talk about it as a public, um, uh, public utility. But, uh, it, unless they're a municipality providing service or a co-op providing service, uh, they're not actually public utilities anymore. They are private enterprises that are, uh, operating in, um, uh, very large regional markets. So in the united, in, in the context of the state of Utah, it's not a Utah electricity market. It is a western states energy market, which includes California, Oregon, Washington, uh, Nevada, Idaho, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, uh, Wyoming, Montana are all one energy market. And so the challenge is as we look ahead 25, 50, 75, a hundred years, um, we have to recognize that electricity is going to be, um, uh, it's gonna be a regional, uh, product. Not a local, not a, not a local one. And we need to be thinking about energy more along the lines of its roll, uh, uh, something like roads, sewer, water, right? This is critical infrastructure for our community, and we need to have a statewide approach and a statewide plan to make sure we have plentiful, affordable, reliable energy for generations to come. Um, I think this is a tool that will assist in executing that strategy, and it's the reason why I've, uh, sponsored House Bill five 14. Thank you. That concludes my presentation.

Yeah. So, um, any of the assets that would be financed under the structure would be operated by a third party operator. So it could be Rocky Mountain Power, it could be DT Power, it could be another experienced operator. We have a number of, uh, um, uh, organizations that are trying to figure out how to get commercial scale nuclear, uh, up and running. Um, that'll be expertise that, um, uh, will, will, would be able to, uh, take, would, would be able to, uh, operate these kinds of assets. I'll also note that it might be a transmission asset, not just a generation power generation asset. Um, but the idea is that those with expertise, uh, in that space, um, uh, and that are frankly connected to the customer base, what we're trying to do is frankly arbitrage or lower the cost of the CapEx so that we can benefit Utah residents in the long run. That's really the goal. That's really the policy objective behind this.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I appreciate the vision of, uh, HB five 14. Um, you know, we, we had, uh, four generating coal generating plants built in the early 1980s. Were started construction in the late seventies. We had, uh, hunter and Huntington and Bonanza, which is Daggett. And then we had IPP. And the only thing we've built of substantial natures since then has been the gas units at IPP that IPA has built. Then that generation all goes to California because of their green energy policy eventually to be converted to hydrogen. But on the horizon, we've got nuclear, we got geothermal, and then we're going to have to have transmission lines to move it around the state. So the vision behind, uh, this whole thing with the energy council and, and, uh, the bonding, uh, the planning, um, I know there's people in the audience that'll speak to it, but it makes sense to me, uh, as we're moving this direction because, you know, we've, we've grown a lot since the 1980s in this state, uh, 45 years. And, uh, we haven't really built any new generation. We got some small geothermal plant, maybe a 500 megawatt that's supposed to come online and, and maybe we're gonna get some nuclear now. We just had one delivered that's going to Emery County and we'll be tested, but that's just a small five megawatt one. But maybe, you know, maybe as, as things prove and so forth, we'll, we'll get more nuclear. I'm hopeful that we will. So, I, I, I guess I really don't have a question, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to provide that history and, and the need for this bill, and I appreciate the sponsor and his vision. Thank you.

Yes, thank you so much. Thank you for this bill. And I know we have our Sister cities are, are in partnership with IPP and that wouldn't change that. Correct. It's just create just more of an oversight on how we use power coming out of IPP. Is that, is that the general

Yeah, very good question. So this, um, doesn't have anything to do with, um, that particular agency. I used it as an example because it's there to benefit the 23 municipalities. But, but I, this is a perfect ex perfect question. Instead of, um, having the energy council or having a, uh, governmental entity that's essentially working for, uh, the interests of those 23 entities, what we're trying to do is actually create a, a state version that allows us to work, work on statewide interests, right? And that doesn't prohibit or, uh, block those 23 municipalities participating in the Intermountain Power Agency interlocal from continuing to, uh, participate in that capacity.

So this is just to my understanding, this is just creating some more partnerships and transparency and, and people at the table.

Well, what it does is it takes the existing Energy Council and gives it access to a tool that's used very commonly in lots of other places. So, uh, bonding, um, that this financing tool, um, it gives the energy council the ability to, in conjunction with the appropriate authorizations in state government, for example, the Treasurer's Office, et cetera. Um, it gives them access to that tool in the same way, for example, that the 23 municipalities already have access at IPA. Awesome.

Okay. Thank you so much for that clarification. I appreciate it. Thank

You. Very good question. Thank you for your question.

Hi, Emmy. Hi. I'm Emmy Lasky, the director of the Office of Energy Development, and I want to thank the sponsor of this bill for his efforts to provide a structure and tools for us to plan for our energy future. Um, as Representative Albrecht pointed out, when we, when we plan and we plan for the future and do it in a smart way that benefits our state, it's good for everybody. And so we view this as an effort that will help get us there. And I look forward to continuing to work with him as this bill makes it through the process. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, Tom Carter, Rocky Mountain Power serving five states, um, happy to be here with you this afternoon. Uh, just want to, uh, first say that we are, uh, we support the work of the Energy Council and we really appreciate the work that it's done since it was spun up last year. We also, uh, wanna lend our support to the, um, the expanded duties that are being called for in this bill. There's a lot of really great vision that we're seeing here. We do wanna express a, a small concern, and that is this, uh, we, uh, this idea of, and, and, uh, the, the chairman, the, sorry, the sponsor brought this up in his presentation. Um, having dual, having dual chairs of a committee can often lead to having less of a vision. And, um, 'cause you never know who your true master is. And so, as I, as I believe he mentioned, that's something that's being debated this time. We would encourage having a strong chair to work with these great members of this committee can provide the direction necessary. And if that's something that's continued to be debated and discussed, we think that that's something that would be beneficial for all of us. Uh, but we also, again, we wanna express support for the bill and the great work that's being done by the sponsor to continue to work to find a pathway forward on, on development projects.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, uh, members of the committee. My name is Jeff Hartley. I represent a nuclear nuclear development company called High-Tech Solutions. Uh, I'd just like to, um, thank the sponsor for bringing this bill forward and this, these new financial tools forward. Uh, as Representative Albrecht alluded to, nuclear power is incredibly expensive. Um, it takes financing of a project to a whole new level. The, and whatever tools are available to help drive down cost, um, are welcome. Um, and I think that, that the safeguards are in place to make sure that the project is can stand on its own and is financially solid so that you don't have rogue projects that might fail. But I, I, I think that the ability to save 1%, uh, interest on a, on a billion dollar project, that's $10 million if you can save 2%, it's, it's meaningful to the companies that, that are looking to bring these projects in. And my final comment would be that, um, having worked a lot in the natural resources extractive industries, the, the true beneficiaries of, of this might be, um, the carbon based, um, carbon based projects that during, let me, I'll be careful how I say this. During hostile federal administrations have a real hard time getting funding for projects. There were times during the, um, Obama and Biden administrations when you couldn't finance a good project, even if it made sense on paper, if it was, if it was sourced on carbon molecules, the, the private equity funds and the SPACs and the traditional energy funds, which aren't banks, but traditionally energy backers didn't want to touch those projects because, um, it because they either had a social objective on a corporate level or because it was viewed as too, uh, too hostile of a federal administration, and they didn't know what the rules would be going forward. This will help tremendously with those projects that have struggled for funding in the past. So, uh, again, appreciate this, bill. Thanks.

Wonderful. Thank you, uh, chairs and representatives. Good afternoon, starting into our evening. Um, I will try to keep this short and brief, and thank you for the time and the ability to be online today. Uh, was having some car troubles with the snow, so such a fun time to experience our winter again. Um, my name is Carmen Valdez. I am a senior policy associate for the Healthy Environment Alliance of Utah. And we are in favor of HB five 14. We've appreciated all the work. Our legislature, governor's, office and Office of Energy Development have put into developing Utah's strategy for our energy future. Over the last year, we have had a few concerns with the energy, Utah Energy Council's lack of transparency, and with such a small council making large decisions. And as a staff member of a small team, we know how much work it takes for a few people to work through large projects. And a small council means our council members must be experts on several issues in order to make the best decisions for Utah's energy needs. By expanding the council, we see this as a way to streamline processes and ensure that a more thoughtful approach to energy product projects are conducted. While we support the bill. Overall, we would recommend amending the bill to expand the council a little bit further, to include experts that can support permitting processes such as public health experts and environmental health experts. Further expanding the council could help strengthen the council's decisions and strategies, especially when dealing with permits and grants. Having those individuals at the seat at the table would ensure that those concerns are addressed ahead of time and streamlining decisions. We'd also recommend as part of transparency efforts to further expand the council to include impacted community members or to ensure they're in attendance at council meetings. We have seen another state's inclusion of consumer advocates and low income representatives, and that's been successful. We know this can be difficult to coordinate at times, but once again, we feel that this could streamline the process and allow communities to feel involved in energy projects near their homes. We thank you in the Energy Council for all the work you continue to put into building our energy future. And we hope to work at the bill sponsor for an amendment. We thank you for your time today, representatives.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would make a motion that we pass out HB five 14 Utah Energy Council Amendments with a favorable recommendation.

Yes, I would. Um, even though I had been an, a power engineer for nearly 20 years, by the time the Energy Policy Act was passed in 2005, it hadn't really dawned on me how much we were dependent here in Utah on every other state in the Western interconnection. Uh, I was watching California and their bad policies shutting down generators, and I knew that was gonna lead to ba blackouts and price spikes, but I was naive to think that it wouldn't affect us. And in the 20 years since then, it's been, it's been obvious and painful to watch how much bad policies from California, Colorado, and New Mexico and Arizona have cost, how much it's cost the residents of Utah, and how much it has hurt our reliability. And so I think it's very important, this bill and this concept in the Energy Council that we're looking to support supply so that the supply and demand are imbalance and we're not subjected or we, we insulate ourselves from bad policy from the costs and the reliability, the adverse effects of bad policy and neighboring states by us supplying adequate, reliable, and affordable electricity to the entire Western region. That is the only solution that we have. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yeah, thanks Mr. Chair. I just want to explain to those, uh, online and in, in the audience and maybe to our committee, what Representative Jack just said. Some of you may be wondering, well, how did those other states policies affect the price of electricity in Utah? And the, the fact is, is that we're all part of the Western, uh, electric coordinating Council. The states that the, the good sponsor mentioned in his presentation and what the good sponsor from Dixie said as far as, um, the Canadian border to the Arizona border, to the Pacific Ocean, to the boundaries of Eastern Colorado. We're all in this Western region. And whatever actions some of those power suppliers take, or those state policy makers take by shutting down coal plants and shutting down gas plants, and even California shutting down a nuclear plant affects the market rates, which we buy are Rocky Mountain buys it, uh, Desiree buys it. And so those rates have gone up because of idiotic decisions that those places made. I just wanted to clarify that representative. Thanks for the fine way you did that too.

I, I appreciate the discussion and, uh, I recognize the time. Uh, but I would like to make just a couple of concluding remarks. Um, first one is, I, I wanna express great appreciation to, uh, Representative Albrecht for his vision. This, uh, con, this energy council, and this way that we're ex, the way that we're trying to pull together our strategic vision for our state and, and leadership on energy issues wouldn't have happened without, uh, your efforts last session to bring this con bring this, uh, idea to fruition and actually get it launched. And I, I acknowledge and appreciate that. I think it, I think it is a tremendously impactful policy for our state in general, because there may not be any more impactful thing than the cost of power. You know, when we get down to it, we can, there's a lot of important issues out there, but if, if power prices double or triple or quadruple, it's gonna hurt. And so this is an important issue for us. The second one is, um, the neighboring states that are shutting down, uh, their traditional, uh, hydrocarbon fuel sources, they're looking to Utah to provide generation for them. And they'll be using Utah resources to supply their generation needs. And if we don't do this the right way, we're gonna end up down the road in a generation, and we're gonna find that all of the resources that we need to take care of our residents are locked up by our neighbors who are using our resources to take care of their residents. We need to be very careful about that. The way this is setting up is, some of you may remember I was on the natural gas and power trade floor in 2000, I think it was early two thousands, 2003, when Pacific Gas and Electric in Southern California, Edison went bankrupt. And the reason why they went bankrupt was because there were limitations in the amount of generation that was available in the marketplace for them. And the demand for power went straight, went sky high because of a very hot summer. And that very hot summer forced the marginal cost of power to unsustainable levels and at bankrupt the, the at the public utilities that were providing service to the customers. And ultimately what that did is it resulted in the rolling back blackouts that the good chair talked about. Um, if we wanna make sure we don't sus that we don't expose our residents to, um, these kinds of volatile, highly volatile market conditions, the only way we can do it is through supply. And we need to make sure that in the long run, we have the ability to provide supply to our Utah residents, power generations, to our Utah residents, just like we provide roads and we provide water and we provide infrastructure, um, as a public service. Um, power needs to be one of those things that we have the ability to make sure we can provide in the long run at an affordable, reliable way. And I appreciate the opportunity to be, be with the committee today. Thank you.

Um, I, I thank the maker of the bill for his wonderful presentation. He is, he stated it better than I could. And, and the, and Chair Albrecht for his comments, I'll just, I'll just sum by saying we're talking about electricity and reliable and affordable electricity. Because not only is it important to, uh, charge up our cell phones and light the lights, but it also pumps the water. It moves the sewer to the wastewater treatment plant. It powers the cell phone towers, it powers the television stations. It powers everything in our lives down to and including the gasoline pumps at the Maverick. And well, every other gasoline station and the pump jacks in, uh, the unit basin, all of that runs off of electricity. So we're not only talking about fixing our electric supply, we're fixing all of our critical infrastructure and it all runs. And think about your banking. It all runs on electricity. So with that, I conclude my remarks. Mr. Vice Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Motion to adjourn.

I didn't ask to make the motion. It was just put on me, so I was made the bad guy on this. Um, uh, but, but I would say, you know, I, I think our, our process has been working pretty well for these, and, and, and so within our system, we've been able to do it. And what, I don't think there's time to fix it at this point, but, you know, if you wanted to do the voluntary contributions into the fund that's already existing, where that $20 million is being held, you know, then you could continue to draw down using the voluntary contributions in that way. Uh, but it was the automation of money out of the tiff rather than going through the regular process. That was the part that was concerning that, that in my mind, you are gonna be working on. Um, you know, and, but I'm also kind of a, a stickler when it comes to bringing bills back to committee. Uh, this isn't, you're not the first, first one who, uh, I may be in favor of a bill or against a bill, but if it comes back to the committee in the same format, I'm gonna honor the previous committee one. And so that's just kind of what I've always done, so, thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So this bill, um, because of the Olympics committee is a five one C3, uh, charitable committee. Uh, they can't take, uh, tax revenue. Um, what this bill does is basically say any vendor that they, uh, work with to sell tickets and hospitality packages cannot take tax revenue, uh, from the state either. Um, there's a mechanism where, uh, the committee will, uh, create, uh, an opportunity to pay cities and, and, and the state back for public services rendered during the, the Olympics and leading up to the nalytics, but it won't be through tax, uh, sales tax revenue. So that is the extent of the bill.

Thank you. Yeah, this has got a $58 million fiscal impact to it. Yeah. A foregone revenue, not anything current. So you're indicating that in other me means the state and the, and the subdivisions be, uh, Held harmless, correct?

Correct. Yeah. They'll contract with the Olympic committee for their services, and the Olympic committee will, will reimburse them directly.

Okay. Thank you. Yep.

This is how he keeps me silent. Yeah, I know. Keep your light on On so that I don't get called on. Uh, and then he calls on me when I don't bug To do the boat. Turns your light on, leaves it on wants, It's great. Um,

uh, and, and I don't know if you know this, how did we handle it in 2002? I think We handed it in a very, uh, a very similar fashion. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is this how other Olympic venues hand, like I don't, I don't think so.

It's different for every Olympic Yeah. Uh, committee. But, uh, in Utah we've promised that it won't be on taxpayers. And so that's what we're trying to do as well. Um, I know that there's a lot of influx with, uh, international and, and, you know, national visitors. And so we're creating a way for, uh, you know, cities to be held harmless, uh, and the state to be held harmless, but it won't be through sales tax dollars.

Where does the reimbursement money back to the state and the locals? Where does that money come from? It comes directly from the Olympic committee. Okay. And then, and they're getting that through sponsorships and through

No, they'll, they'll get it through a, a, an, uh, commensurate fee on the sales of the ticket, but it just won't, it won't.

Okay. It'll skip the process of going to the tax commission and then coming back to the, to the cities. Okay. It'll be directly from the Olympic committee.

Okay. And is it at the same, do they remit the same percentage back to the state as the state would otherwise collect?

That's the plan. Okay. Yeah.

Is there anything in here that kinda requires that it at least be equal to what we would've received had, would, had it gone to the state?

There's nothing in this bill that would, that would require the same amount, but we have, um, uh, assurances that it will be the same amount.

Okay. If we, like in, I'm, I'm not gonna hold up this bill, but do you think there would be opposition to a bill in the future that says the, the contract shall at least exceed the, you know, the sum sales tax that otherwise would've been received through the remittance of those taxes?

I don't think there'd be any opposition to that, but I mean, that's for a future legislature to decide, right?

Yeah. I mean, I'm just not, I'm, I certainly understand the structural issue with the nonprofit collecting taxes. Yeah, totally get that. I just wanna make sure that, you know, if we were to be collecting on a sales tax, um, I'm forgetting the exact state portion, but say it's 4.5%. Yeah. You know, do we, I just wanna make sure that we're not coming out behind despite, you know, spending billions of dollars trying to get ready, ready for it. And, and so it's not that I, and, but I don't necessarily want us to come out ahead either, you know? Yeah. In that sense, I just wanna make sure that we're protecting the state fully. And so, and, and the reason why I'm asking these questions is just to kind of put 'em on the record and make sure that concern is known generally to the, to the Olympic groups.

But I think, I think that that concern is very known there. I think that, um, you know, obviously they have to make their plans, but the idea is to, uh, increase the, the price of the ticket, uh, with that fee commensurate to the, the sales tax rate.

Yeah. And, and that, that sounds great. I just wanna make sure that the contract on the backend doesn't, that it's equal to at least Correct. You know, on the backend. So, yeah.

And we'll, we'll work through that later.

Yeah. Great points. Thanks. Thanks, Senator.

That's correct. So the vendor that they, what this bill does is say the vendor that they contract with cannot collect sales tax either.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Make a motion that we favorably recommend, uh, first substitute HP 5 37.

It's a great bill. I think it's moving us in the right direction, what we promise the, the community and the state when we start moving in the direction of the Olympics. Thank you.

I appreciate that motion, and I'll waive summation. Okay.

Appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thanks for letting me go. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Nice to be in front of the committee today. Uh, h or Make that decision after the committee. Okay. I'm just kidding. Um, Senate Bill three 16 deals with, um, public attorney's fees for individuals who, uh, for public employees who have been charged with a criminal offense and, um, the timing by which they're able to recover those fees. Um, and so I've invited Lindsay Jarvis, an attorney's, worked extensively in this space to explain a little bit about the issue and what we're proposing.

My, my name is Lindsay Jarvis. I'm a criminal defense attorney in South Jordan. As a former prosecutor, we end up getting a lot of cases where the, the charges involve, or the cases involve public employees. So whether that be public officials or firemen or police officers, when those individuals are charged with crimes, oftentimes they come our way. And so what we're seeing is somewhat of a loophole in what the legislation is current. And so that's what we were hoping to address. And so back, back in 1975, uh, what had happened is the chairman and director of the Utah State Liquor Control Commission, uh, was indicted on several different counts. And so, uh, as that, uh, prosecution went on, what the legislators realized was that at any point in time, they could be charged criminally for something that was politically motivated, that didn't have much basis to it. And so what the legislature did is created the reimbursement statute, which is what we're talking about. And what that says is that if a public official, um, whether that be, um, some sort of, uh, senator legislator, uh, police officer, fireman, anything to do with public employment, they wanted to do something to protect them, which would be to pay their attorney's fees and also any court costs associated with a successful defense, um, of that particular charge. And so what has happened is typically if an officer is acquitted, um, or if their, their case is quashed at a preliminary hearing, then the entity would reimburse the officer, um, for those fees. And so what we've seen lately is the one exception to this is that if a prosecutor files a motion to dismiss, um, then that basically is the one exception to this charge. And so if the officer, um, goes through the process of either being indicted or is filed by information, um, no matter when that dismissal occurs, then that will be, um, uh, uh, essentially a exception to this rule. And so the most recent case that we had with this is the police officer who was actually involved in an accident while on duty, um, four-wheeler came down on top of him, he was charged and then subsequently terminated. Um, his trial took seven years. It took seven years to get to trial, partly because of COVID, but also just because of the nature of the case. And that the prosecutor filed a motion to dismiss after jury, after the jury had been selected. And imp paneled, which is important because that means that if the case is dismissed, it's dismissed with prejudice, which is essentially an acquittal. Um, when that case was dismissed, the officer sought to be reimbursed. And at that point in time, the court said that because the statute currently allows for the exception, um, of a prosecutor dismissing the case, uh, he was not entitled to then recover his fees. And in that case, because of the medical injuries that he sustained, he was required to get an expert, a couple of experts.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that we circle house Bill five 14. Motion is to circle house Bill five 14, you'd like to speak to it. I would, uh, we're waiting on a substitute, uh, that, uh, we've been talking about with, uh, mentioned in the committee. Um, but anyway, we're, um, working on getting that substitute out so that we can, uh, have everybody have a chance to look at it and also, uh, speak to the, uh, the bill that we want to hear.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that we adopt the first substitute to house Bill five 14.

I would. Um, there is a, an, uh, as we were working through this, the policy has stayed the same throughout the versions of the bill. Um, but, uh, as we were working through, uh, this, uh, bonding authority for the Energy Council, we worked with, uh, the LFA. We worked with the Treasurer's Office. We worked with the governor's office, um, and we worked with, uh, outside legal bond counsel, and we worked with the, um, uh, financial advisor to the State of Utah to figure out the right structure. And we've been advised that we need to use a, uh, special district. Uh, this is a special districts exist at the co at the founding of our state in 1896. They're part of the Constitution special districts for things like mosquito districts, um, uh, water conservancy districts, uh, et cetera. So we're, we've been advised to use a special district to create this, uh, process.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that we move Amendment one.

I would, um, amendment one makes it very clear that nothing we're doing in the Energy Council would interfere with a, um, municipality who operates, uh, electric service as part of their, uh, public service to their residents. Uh, a co-op, um, for example, uh, we have a number of, uh, uh, co-ops that, uh, provide electricity, electricity service in their service area, or a public utility, uh, like Rocky Mountain Power. There's, there's nothing in the, the, we wanted to make it very clear that there's nothing in what the, uh, uh, energy Council is doing that would replace or displace or any way, uh, cause them to be a provider of, uh, electricity. Everybody's on the same page. We just wanna make that abundantly clear for some of those, um, municipal, uh, co-op and, uh, private entities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Uh, last year we created the Utah Energy Council. Uh, the Energy Council has, uh, started functioning. I'll just, uh, remind the members that the Energy Council is, uh, not a, not a regulatory body. The Office of Energy Development does that, that's housed in the governor's office. The Energy Council is tasked with leading out on statewide energy policy and trying to help make sure that we have a reliable, affordable dispatchable energy for, uh, decades to come. Uh, the Energy Council started meeting, uh, we're, uh, it, it has started, uh, taking up some initial issues. And as, as the Energy Council has met, one of the things that the Energy Council and, uh, those that are helping support it, it felt like needed to happen, was that there would be an expansion of that Energy Council from five members to seven members. And so, uh, this bill, uh, expands the Energy Council membership from five members to seven members. I'll just, I'll just, uh, note for the body, uh, that the, uh, energy Council membership are, uh, one member appointed by the speaker, one member appointed by the, uh, president of the Senate. Um, the off the, uh, office of Energy Development, uh, director, uh, and then two, uh, governor appointees. Uh, this provision allows for two additional appointees, uh, to be added to the Energy Council. Uh, they would be appointed by the, uh, tho those original five members. Um, it also authorizes, um, the speaker and the president to add a co-chair to the Energy Council. So many of you're familiar with our interim and our appropriations processes where we operate in a co-chair structure. The Energy Council would, um, would, would be able to, would operate going forward, under House Bill five 14 as substitute amended with a co-chair structure. And, uh, the appointments, as I've just articulated. Uh, so that's the first provision. The second provision is we are working towards, uh, trying to figure out how to address long-term, uh, energy generation infrastructure in the state of Utah. The first, uh, issue that we've been working through for a number of years and having a great success on is addressing regulatory, uh, obstacles. And the Governor's Office and the Office of Energy Development have been, uh, really, uh, working really hard at trying to streamline the permitting and, and the permitting and other processes around, uh, energy development across our state. And, and if you're following energy, you know that there's a lot happening in that space. Uh, the second part is, uh, energy projects, uh, uh, have, uh, sometimes they are, uh, can be large in scale, and there's, uh, need to help provide support through financing. What we're doing here is, uh, creating a mechanism where we can, uh, help support financing without committing, uh, the, the state creating an obligation for, uh, the residents, uh, uh, the state's bond rating or credit rating. What we're doing is we're per, we're creating a way to help facilitate those financing mechanisms. So you can think about, uh, one example might be nuclear. There's been a lot of discussions about nuclear power. Um, if, if there as nuclear power continues to, uh, move forward, and we start thinking about how we're going to, uh, uh, build that infrastructure, this is a tool that would be an option that we'd be able to use to help support that, uh, critical energy development. I'll just make one last point. Um, this isn't a new structure or a new feature. We've used these, uh, we've used this, uh, in other contexts in the past. Um, many of, uh, many of you are familiar with, uh, um, uh, Intermountain Power Agency and the 23 municipalities that created an interlocal to be able to help provide power to those communities. Um, in this particular case, what we're doing is we're creating a, if you will, of a version, uh, uh, an op an opportunity to look at statewide interests. So this is something that we can think about all the residents of the state, all the municipalities, all of our counties, if they chose to, and there was a, and, and there was an opportunity. We're, we're trying to make sure that we're thinking, um, uh, statewide in our scope. And so, uh, uh, Mr. Speaker, that, that's a summary of what we're doing here. I think this is gonna be an, uh, important policy as we look at energy generation, infrastructure, energy generation infrastructure, um, over the coming decades. And, uh, this will help us, uh, achieve our goal of reliable dispatchable and, uh, um, affordable power in the state of Utah. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a question? Representative Walter, will you yield?

I will, yes. Representative Whyte.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, with the substitute that was just adopted, could you speak to what this would mean to local governments with the creation of the new Energy District? Kind of the scope of that for local governments, please?

Yes. So let me just clarify. Last year, uh, uh, separate from the creation of the Energy Council, there were energy zones that were created. And so those are, those are preexisting. This, uh, special district, as I mentioned, it's a special district, like a water conservancy district or a mosquito abatement district is a good example. But, but this would allow for, uh, the creation of an, the, uh, construction of, um, ener energy generation, infrastructure, energy, transmission infrastructure. It wouldn't have an impact on, uh, a consumer, uh, for example, serving a resident to a city. That would still be, if it was a municipality, that would still be a municipality if it were a private entity, um, like is common in the state of Utah, Rocky Mountain Power, that that would remain. None of that changes. This just allows for, um, energy generation, uh, construction. I'll also make one other note that, um, this was, this was very interesting and, uh, I, I wasn't aware of this, but, um, article, article 11, section nine of the Utah Constitution says, the legislature may not grant the right to construct and operate street, railroad telegraph, telephone, or electric light plant. Very interesting description within a city or town, without the consent of the local authorities who have controlled the street or highway proposed to be occupied for such purposes. So, uh, act constitution for any kind of development in the space requires coordination with local authorities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just rise in support of this bill and to thank the sponsor for working with the utilities over the course of today to make sure that this, uh, this, this bill clarifies that we're not dealing, uh, with anybody's, uh, distribution district or with their, uh, service territory. I know that there is a special service electrical district in Southern Utah County. This, this wouldn't affect, that, it wouldn't affect the co-ops or the Munis or Rocky Mountain Power simply gives, uh, large, gives financing opportunities for large generation and transmission so that we can deal with the whole supply and, uh, and, and transmission of electricity in the Western United States so that we can keep electricity reliable and affordable in Utah. And the only way we do that is if we meet this demand of electricity in the West. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm looking at lines 180 6 and 180 7. Is this a question? So will the, will the sponsor yield? Thank

I will

thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am looking at lines 180 6 and 180 7, and wondering what the process is for acquiring water rights and all of the things listed there, air rights and other real and personal property rights. Is this imminent domain? What, what is the process?

No, the an the answer, uh, is not imminent domain. Um, this is a very good question. I, I was gonna address a portion of it in my sum, but I appreciate the question. In order to build power generation, you have to have a place to build it. You have to have, uh, water, and you have to have, uh, air meaning, uh, make sure that we're not, uh, emitting above the attainment levels. So those things have to be in place. Um, uh, we're not, we're definitely not doing this through eminent domain, but what's happening right now, Mr. Speaker in the state of Utah across the state, is, um, we have on the west coast, some of our good neighbors, uh, are shutting down power generation, all kinds of different power generation. And some of our neighbors, uh, to the East Colorado has just announced that they're shutting down three coal plants. They're shutting down power generation. All of our 11 western states are interconnected. And so what they're doing, um, interestingly, is they are seeking to, uh, meet their power demand needs using Utah resources. So for example, when, uh, we build, uh, solar or geothermal or natural gas in the state of Utah, most of that power is, uh, being, uh, exported to our neighboring states. Interestingly, they're seeking to control our water, our, uh, air shed, um, are, um, uh, the, frankly, the land and the other resources that allow us to do that. All we're trying to do is recognize that, um, uh, we, we need to make, we need to be careful about how some of those decisions are made. We're not trying to use eminent domain to take anything. We're just trying to recognize that, uh, we need to be careful about how the energy infrastructure is built out over the next generation. I'm talking about the next 25 or 30 years, so that we don't find one day that our neighbors own all of the generation assets in our state, and we won't have the ability to generate affordable power for our own residents.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank You, Mr. Speaker. May I ask a follow up? Thank you. Um, all on line 2 67, all property and assets of the district are exempt from taxation as provided in section, blah, blah, blah. Um, they don't have to pay taxes, property taxes or, or anything.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, this is also a very good clarifying question. So, um, all state assets, uh, wherever they are in the state, are exempt from, uh, property tax. I'll note that we do have a privilege tax, which is essentially the replacement for a property tax, uh, when the, uh, state or another, uh, entity that is not taxable is operating in an area, there, there is an option and a provision for the implementation of a privilege tax.

Okay. And the last question, where does the privilege tax go?

So, yes, Mr. Speaker, I, I appreciate also that question. Um, the privilege tax, uh, has all, I'm gonna use the example of the two existing, uh, power, sorry, the existing power generation unit in, uh, Millard County. The privilege tax, uh, does go to the county members in that case. This is the best example that I can demonstrate for how this would, would work. We're really trying to, uh, as I mentioned earlier, um, create a, uh, model something, uh, model this after something that's been around for a long time that will benefit all of our residents, not not just a portion of the residents in that are participating in one particular interlocal.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not to belabor the point, but, uh, colleagues, uh, the good, uh, representative speaker from Hoopa Hooper Hooper, uh, appointed me to the Energy Council last year. I represent the House of Representatives. This bill, uh, run by the good representative from Dixie will certainly help our energy council in numerous ways and will help the future of energy in the great state of Utah. Uh, it's a good bill, and I encourage your support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, I think the final point that I'd like to leave with, uh, the body this, this evening, and appreciate the good questions and the good debate that we've had. I think the final point that I'd like to leave with the body is that, um, when electricity very first started and we started creating energy infrastructure in our state, uh, uh, a hundred years ago, it was all very local. And as that energy infrastructure grew and the demand for energy in infrastructure grew, we started to see, um, uh, a lot more collaboration and cooperation by, uh, communities to try and figure out how to supply that growing power demand. Um, there came a point in the nineties and early two thousands when, uh, a lot of the energy generation, the energy supply became privatized and, uh, uh, it was mostly still within the state. Um, it was regulated closely within the state. And then, and then we found ourselves in a situation where much of the energy generation, uh, across the country, um, became multi-state private entities. And, and what's happening is there's, uh, different interests. There's different, uh, competing dynamics at play. And what we've found is that our once local, uh, energy markets that were a public service, they were, we call it a, we can see, we refer to them as a public utility, but those services, um, uh, are now spanning multiple states. They're highly interconnected. And there is a complicated set of market conditions that are now, uh, going to determine, uh, the, the price, the cost, the availability of power in our, uh, great state and will have a tremendous impact on our residents. You can't do anything, uh, without power. We can't run our, um, uh, uh, floor, uh, proceedings today. We can't, uh, uh, run our schools, our, uh, businesses, we can't, uh, get help when we're not feeling well at the hospital. Uh, there's nothing in our economy that, uh, doesn't, uh, depend on, uh, this, uh, energy. And, and we're just starting to think a little bit differently that, you know, we build, uh, water infrastructure, uh, uh, we build water infrastructure. That's a, that's a, a public good. We were building, um, roads and, and, uh, interconnecting all our cities. That's critical infrastructure. Um, power generation and transmission is critical infrastructure for our state. And if we wanna make sure that, uh, we are, um, uh, guar that, that we are providing reliable, affordable, dispatchable energy to our residents, uh, generation from now, we need to be thoughtful and strategic about how we do that. This is a tool, this is one tool that will allow us, uh, to move forward in that regard. And I appreciate the body's Support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that we adopt the first substitute to house Bill five 14.

I would. Um, there is a, an, uh, as we were working through this, the policy has stayed the same throughout the versions of the bill. Um, but, uh, as we were working through, uh, this, uh, bonding authority for the Energy Council, we worked with, uh, the LFA. We worked with the Treasurer's Office. We worked with the governor's office, um, and we worked with, uh, outside legal bond counsel, and we worked with the, um, uh, financial advisor to the State of Utah to figure out the right structure. And we've been advised that we need to use a, uh, special district. Uh, this is a special districts exist at the co at the founding of our state in 1896. They're part of the Constitution special districts for things like mosquito districts, um, uh, water conservancy districts, uh, et cetera. So we're, we've been advised to use a special district to create this, uh, process.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that we move Amendment one.

I would, um, amendment one makes it very clear that nothing we're doing in the Energy Council would interfere with a, um, municipality who operates, uh, electric service as part of their, uh, public service to their residents. Uh, a co-op, um, for example, uh, we have a number of, uh, uh, co-ops that, uh, provide electricity, electricity service in their service area, or a public utility, uh, like Rocky Mountain Power. There's, there's nothing in the, the, we wanted to make it very clear that there's nothing in what the, uh, uh, energy Council is doing that would replace or displace or any way, uh, cause them to be a provider of, uh, electricity. Everybody's on the same page. We just wanna make that abundantly clear for some of those, um, municipal, uh, co-op and, uh, private entities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Uh, last year we created the Utah Energy Council. Uh, the Energy Council has, uh, started functioning. I'll just, uh, remind the members that the Energy Council is, uh, not a, not a regulatory body. The Office of Energy Development does that, that's housed in the governor's office. The Energy Council is tasked with leading out on statewide energy policy and trying to help make sure that we have a reliable, affordable dispatchable energy for, uh, decades to come. Uh, the Energy Council started meeting, uh, we're, uh, it, it has started, uh, taking up some initial issues. And as, as the Energy Council has met, one of the things that the Energy Council and, uh, those that are helping support it, it felt like needed to happen, was that there would be an expansion of that Energy Council from five members to seven members. And so, uh, this bill, uh, expands the Energy Council membership from five members to seven members. I'll just, I'll just, uh, note for the body, uh, that the, uh, energy Council membership are, uh, one member appointed by the speaker, one member appointed by the, uh, president of the Senate. Um, the off the, uh, office of Energy Development, uh, director, uh, and then two, uh, governor appointees. Uh, this provision allows for two additional appointees, uh, to be added to the Energy Council. Uh, they would be appointed by the, uh, tho those original five members. Um, it also authorizes, um, the speaker and the president to add a co-chair to the Energy Council. So many of you're familiar with our interim and our appropriations processes where we operate in a co-chair structure. The Energy Council would, um, would, would be able to, would operate going forward, under House Bill five 14 as substitute amended with a co-chair structure. And, uh, the appointments, as I've just articulated. Uh, so that's the first provision. The second provision is we are working towards, uh, trying to figure out how to address long-term, uh, energy generation infrastructure in the state of Utah. The first, uh, issue that we've been working through for a number of years and having a great success on is addressing regulatory, uh, obstacles. And the Governor's Office and the Office of Energy Development have been, uh, really, uh, working really hard at trying to streamline the permitting and, and the permitting and other processes around, uh, energy development across our state. And, and if you're following energy, you know that there's a lot happening in that space. Uh, the second part is, uh, energy projects, uh, uh, have, uh, sometimes they are, uh, can be large in scale, and there's, uh, need to help provide support through financing. What we're doing here is, uh, creating a mechanism where we can, uh, help support financing without committing, uh, the, the state creating an obligation for, uh, the residents, uh, uh, the state's bond rating or credit rating. What we're doing is we're per, we're creating a way to help facilitate those financing mechanisms. So you can think about, uh, one example might be nuclear. There's been a lot of discussions about nuclear power. Um, if, if there as nuclear power continues to, uh, move forward, and we start thinking about how we're going to, uh, uh, build that infrastructure, this is a tool that would be an option that we'd be able to use to help support that, uh, critical energy development. I'll just make one last point. Um, this isn't a new structure or a new feature. We've used these, uh, we've used this, uh, in other contexts in the past. Um, many of, uh, many of you are familiar with, uh, um, uh, Intermountain Power Agency and the 23 municipalities that created an interlocal to be able to help provide power to those communities. Um, in this particular case, what we're doing is we're creating a, if you will, of a version, uh, uh, an op an opportunity to look at statewide interests. So this is something that we can think about all the residents of the state, all the municipalities, all of our counties, if they chose to, and there was a, and, and there was an opportunity. We're, we're trying to make sure that we're thinking, um, uh, statewide in our scope. And so, uh, uh, Mr. Speaker, that, that's a summary of what we're doing here. I think this is gonna be an, uh, important policy as we look at energy generation, infrastructure, energy generation infrastructure, um, over the coming decades. And, uh, this will help us, uh, achieve our goal of reliable dispatchable and, uh, um, affordable power in the state of Utah. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the sponsor yield to a question? Representative Walter, will you yield?

I will, yes. Representative Whyte.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, with the substitute that was just adopted, could you speak to what this would mean to local governments with the creation of the new Energy District? Kind of the scope of that for local governments, please?

Yes. So let me just clarify. Last year, uh, uh, separate from the creation of the Energy Council, there were energy zones that were created. And so those are, those are preexisting. This, uh, special district, as I mentioned, it's a special district, like a water conservancy district or a mosquito abatement district is a good example. But, but this would allow for, uh, the creation of an, the, uh, construction of, um, ener energy generation, infrastructure, energy, transmission infrastructure. It wouldn't have an impact on, uh, a consumer, uh, for example, serving a resident to a city. That would still be, if it was a municipality, that would still be a municipality if it were a private entity, um, like is common in the state of Utah, Rocky Mountain Power, that that would remain. None of that changes. This just allows for, um, energy generation, uh, construction. I'll also make one other note that, um, this was, this was very interesting and, uh, I, I wasn't aware of this, but, um, article, article 11, section nine of the Utah Constitution says, the legislature may not grant the right to construct and operate street, railroad telegraph, telephone, or electric light plant. Very interesting description within a city or town, without the consent of the local authorities who have controlled the street or highway proposed to be occupied for such purposes. So, uh, act constitution for any kind of development in the space requires coordination with local authorities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just rise in support of this bill and to thank the sponsor for working with the utilities over the course of today to make sure that this, uh, this, this bill clarifies that we're not dealing, uh, with anybody's, uh, distribution district or with their, uh, service territory. I know that there is a special service electrical district in Southern Utah County. This, this wouldn't affect, that, it wouldn't affect the co-ops or the Munis or Rocky Mountain Power simply gives, uh, large, gives financing opportunities for large generation and transmission so that we can deal with the whole supply and, uh, and, and transmission of electricity in the Western United States so that we can keep electricity reliable and affordable in Utah. And the only way we do that is if we meet this demand of electricity in the West. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm looking at lines 180 6 and 180 7. Is this a question? So will the, will the sponsor yield? Thank

Yes, sir. To a series of Questions? Yes, Mr. Speaker? I will

thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am looking at lines 180 6 and 180 7, and wondering what the process is for acquiring water rights and all of the things listed there, air rights and other real and personal property rights. Is this imminent domain? What, what is the process?

No, the an the answer, uh, is not imminent domain. Um, this is a very good question. I, I was gonna address a portion of it in my sum, but I appreciate the question. In order to build power generation, you have to have a place to build it. You have to have, uh, water, and you have to have, uh, air meaning, uh, make sure that we're not, uh, emitting above the attainment levels. So those things have to be in place. Um, uh, we're not, we're definitely not doing this through eminent domain, but what's happening right now, Mr. Speaker in the state of Utah across the state, is, um, we have on the west coast, some of our good neighbors, uh, are shutting down power generation, all kinds of different power generation. And some of our neighbors, uh, to the East Colorado has just announced that they're shutting down three coal plants. They're shutting down power generation. All of our 11 western states are interconnected. And so what they're doing, um, interestingly, is they are seeking to, uh, meet their power demand needs using Utah resources. So for example, when, uh, we build, uh, solar or geothermal or natural gas in the state of Utah, most of that power is, uh, being, uh, exported to our neighboring states. Interestingly, they're seeking to control our water, our, uh, air shed, um, are, um, uh, the, frankly, the land and the other resources that allow us to do that. All we're trying to do is recognize that, um, uh, we, we need to make, we need to be careful about how some of those decisions are made. We're not trying to use eminent domain to take anything. We're just trying to recognize that, uh, we need to be careful about how the energy infrastructure is built out over the next generation. I'm talking about the next 25 or 30 years, so that we don't find one day that our neighbors own all of the generation assets in our state, and we won't have the ability to generate affordable power for our own residents.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank You, Mr. Speaker. May I ask a follow up? Thank you. Um, all on line 2 67, all property and assets of the district are exempt from taxation as provided in section, blah, blah, blah. Um, they don't have to pay taxes, property taxes or, or anything.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, this is also a very good clarifying question. So, um, all state assets, uh, wherever they are in the state, are exempt from, uh, property tax. I'll note that we do have a privilege tax, which is essentially the replacement for a property tax, uh, when the, uh, state or another, uh, entity that is not taxable is operating in an area, there, there is an option and a provision for the implementation of a privilege tax.

Okay. And the last question, where does the privilege tax go?

So, yes, Mr. Speaker, I, I appreciate also that question. Um, the privilege tax, uh, has all, I'm gonna use the example of the two existing, uh, power, sorry, the existing power generation unit in, uh, Millard County. The privilege tax, uh, does go to the county members in that case. This is the best example that I can demonstrate for how this would, would work. We're really trying to, uh, as I mentioned earlier, um, create a, uh, model something, uh, model this after something that's been around for a long time that will benefit all of our residents, not not just a portion of the residents in that are participating in one particular interlocal.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not to belabor the point, but, uh, colleagues, uh, the good, uh, representative speaker from Hoopa Hooper Hooper, uh, appointed me to the Energy Council last year. I represent the House of Representatives. This bill, uh, run by the good representative from Dixie will certainly help our energy council in numerous ways and will help the future of energy in the great state of Utah. Uh, it's a good bill, and I encourage your support. Thank you. Thank

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, I think the final point that I'd like to leave with, uh, the body this, this evening, and appreciate the good questions and the good debate that we've had. I think the final point that I'd like to leave with the body is that, um, when electricity very first started and we started creating energy infrastructure in our state, uh, uh, a hundred years ago, it was all very local. And as that energy infrastructure grew and the demand for energy in infrastructure grew, we started to see, um, uh, a lot more collaboration and cooperation by, uh, communities to try and figure out how to supply that growing power demand. Um, there came a point in the nineties and early two thousands when, uh, a lot of the energy generation, the energy supply became privatized and, uh, uh, it was mostly still within the state. Um, it was regulated closely within the state. And then, and then we found ourselves in a situation where much of the energy generation, uh, across the country, um, became multi-state private entities. And, and what's happening is there's, uh, different interests. There's different, uh, competing dynamics at play. And what we've found is that our once local, uh, energy markets that were a public service, they were, we call it a, we can see, we refer to them as a public utility, but those services, um, uh, are now spanning multiple states. They're highly interconnected. And there is a complicated set of market conditions that are now, uh, going to determine, uh, the, the price, the cost, the availability of power in our, uh, great state and will have a tremendous impact on our residents. You can't do anything, uh, without power. We can't run our, um, uh, uh, floor, uh, proceedings today. We can't, uh, uh, run our schools, our, uh, businesses, we can't, uh, get help when we're not feeling well at the hospital. Uh, there's nothing in our economy that, uh, doesn't, uh, depend on, uh, this, uh, energy. And, and we're just starting to think a little bit differently that, you know, we build, uh, water infrastructure, uh, uh, we build water infrastructure. That's a, that's a, a public good. We were building, um, roads and, and, uh, interconnecting all our cities. That's critical infrastructure. Um, power generation and transmission is critical infrastructure for our state. And if we wanna make sure that, uh, we are, um, uh, guar that, that we are providing reliable, affordable, dispatchable energy to our residents, uh, generation from now, we need to be thoughtful and strategic about how we do that. This is a tool, this is one tool that will allow us, uh, to move forward in that regard. And I appreciate the body's Support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

and substitute it with second substitute of House Bill five 14. The difference in this, what this bill does is, uh, we've been asked by the finance, uh, commissioner and the treasurer to limit this to, uh, only one project, um, that the Energy Council might be involved in. Uh, and it, this sets up some FA financing structure, um, that it, depending on what we decide to do, uh, with IPP, um, this would allow us to be able to sell bonds. Um, but they want to make sure that this, this authority is limited to the IPP project. With that, I'd like to, I'm open to questions on the substitute. If not, I'd like to move the substitute.

Oh. So the purpose of their the purpose of this bill is cut several components to it. Uh, the first component of this bill is expanding the energy council. There have been five members, we wanna expand it by two, bringing in people with expertise in economic development, public utilities, um, uh, bonding, legal matters, et cetera. So just really being able to maybe pull more expertise onto it. It changes leadership of the council from a single chair to co-chairs. Um, and one of which is designated by the speaker. And the president together does not have to be a legislator, but, um, they designate a co-chair and then it establishes this infrastructure Service district, uh, Representative Walter has worked really closely, um, with the Treasurer's Office, um, with the State Finance Review Commission, et cetera, to build a really tight structure here that they're comfortable with that would allow us, depending on what we might decide to do as a state, to be able to sell revenue bonds, to be able to acquire, uh, to take action around the I-P-P-I-P-A project. And with that, I'm open to questions.

Thank you and thank you colleagues. This is a bill that's been worked on for a few years and it, and we, we haven't had a debate on the Senate floor before. I I agree with this policy. I think it's important. Um, I worry about polygraphs, especially when we're dealing with victims of sexual assault. So what this bill does is it puts limitations on the use

Senator Vickers Baldy Aye. Lein Bramer Bus, Palmore Escamilla. Bill Moore Rover. Aye. Harper. Senator Harper. Aye. Kins Aye. Ibsen Aye. Johnson Juab McKay. Aye. Mikel Aye. Milner Aye. Musman Owens. Senator Owens Pitcher Lum Rebe. Sandal Aye. Stevenson Aye. Stratton Bickers Miler Wilson Winterton. Senator Winterton, Senator Bus President Adams Aye.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that we concur with the Senate amendments.

Yes. Uh, we work to do, uh, one very important thing that, uh, we work very closely with, uh, uh, the, uh, co-ops, the, uh, munis and, uh, frankly, Rocky Mountain Power. The Treasurer's Office made a couple of adjustments. Uh, one was we accommodated the treasurer's, uh, office request to, uh, address, uh, the approval of the bonds that would be issued under the five 14. And then we narrowed the scope of the Special District two only area around the Intermountain Power Project, uh, at, at the, at those members' request.