H.B. 529 Secretary of State Amendments: transcript

It it is hard for me to dissect them because everything really does fit together with them. Is it possible to put that slide deck back up please? Thank you. Okay. Could go back to the beginning. Okay. Could we go forward two slides? Thank you. Uh, one more. Let's go one more. Why now? There we go. Why now? And you'll look over on the bottom left, you'll see that it's actually no Mark is in there. We don't have an incumbent running for at least the governor's not, I, like I said, I'm not aware of, of what the other officer is planning to do on that one. That's why now, and I don't believe we need an interim study. I believe that right now is the time to go back to a secretary of State this bill. It makes it to that transition that one of one of you asked about the transition or made a comment about the transition and whether that would be a little shaky or difficult. I don't believe it would be. And we specify that in the code of a transition time. And, and I think whoever, or while Lieutenant Governor would actually be the one, the current lieutenant governor would be the one that would be doing that transition. I have ultimate confidence that they would do a great job. And the reality is we're picking up the elections office and the other duties that are statutorily over to the Lieutenant Governor and just moving them to the Secretary of State. We will have the same employees. There might be a couple switches in there, but we'll have the same staff. So I think it would be a pretty seamless transition and just with a different person or perhaps the same person, uh, to be the Secretary of State to oversee the staff. So I see that. Um, so are there, I would ask if there's any questions about why now? I think I might have covered that well enough. Um, when is question time? I guess somebody could ask that. Could you move forward on the next slide please. Then that transition of power would be in January 29 and then the four year term. So I wanna clarify. There was someone that mentioned about a six year term that was the original. I had a six year term on the original here. Um, the only question here is that, um, some people felt six years was too long and so we went with a two year to offset it. And I think that's one of the best things about this. But that's actually in the constitution, but obviously it's in the bill too. Again, that's one of the best things that it's mid-cycle. Uh, I also want to address the partisanship of this as well. It's not about, when I say it's not about parties, guess the one that made the comment's not in here, but it's not about one party. And I believe the vetting process that happens in the partisan elections is actually a good process. And so I would think that there's more people engaged generally in that as well. So I think that's, we just need to say the same on that as far as what the other constitutional officers is doing as well. Can we go to the next slide please? And the next one and one more and another. We may have covered all of this. Uh, you can see the custodian, uh, they'll be the custodian of the records and the seal, the great seal. Uh, there'll be over lobbyists, regulations, uh, notaries, uh, local government, uh, liaisons. And, and one thing too that I, I haven't mentioned in speaking with a former lieutenant governor, they were actually put over water and transportation and, um, all, all of the local, uh, liaison for all the local governments. And it was a very positive experience that Lieutenant Governor had mentioned to me about that experience there and being ready to step right into the governorship and then actually did step right into the governorship. So I, I do agree that having these other, I would call 'em specialty jobs, uh, of an elections moved over to a tech secretary of state really does enhance that lieutenant governor position to be ready to step in at any point in time. I think I've covered that well. Could we go to the next slide please? Again, successor, they will be first in line, the lieutenant governor, they're the chief advisor. These are all things that are currently in the statute and will be staying in the statute for them. Uh, chief advisor and policy budget and personnel advisor to the governor, personal governor, I should say. Personnel and personal. Uh, they are the main interface with the House and the Senate and they actually can chair, uh, member on the cabinet. And, and, and I thought that's interesting. As I spoke about the last, that lieutenant governor that I was referring to and being over water and transportation, uh, those things, they are actually, they can be a appointed by the governor, but it actually is approved by the Senate. So if you go into code, the Senate actually is advising consent on that. I thought that's really interesting. And then we can, as a legislature, we can give any other duties. There will be some duties that we may wanna shift over to a lieutenant governor in the future and we'll make those decisions in the future. The next slide please. And there you go. You see the Secretary of State is gonna be sixth in line. It used to be second in line, so now it's down there in sixth in line. And the reason is because we went with the statutory, uh, having the ag ahead of it. And no, one more slide. I think, ah, that is it on the slides. I am open for any questions on this particular bill?

So Iran, I haven't caught my breath yet. Maryanne Christensen, executive Director of Utah Legislative Watch. I'm here to speak in favor of the statute part of this, uh, solution that we are finding. And I just wanna thank the sponsor for how well she's done at actually defining what the Secretary of State is going to do once she's installed or he's installed. So, um, thank you very much for an affirmative vote on this. It's an important second part. Thank you.

Alright. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is s Stewart. Um, I, I I believe that the creation of a Secretary of State role won't in fact deliver the independent, uh, oversight of elections that we're perhaps intending. Part of the reason for that is that we need different representation in order to secure Independence. If you have various officers of government who are elected using the exact same methods, they will tend to be very closely ideologically aligned. And the founding fathers understood this, and this is why they actually used separate election methods with different representational methods, uh, to, to ensure that there were actually checks and balances on different offices, thereby guaranteeing that there was a check. Uh, another thing that I will point to is Article two, section one in the United States Constitution. The, uh, president of the Senate received lists of, of, uh, those who were voted for in presidential elections. And the total ballot counts for each. Um, there was never a role under the original founding ethic and design of the United States where there was an an officer of government who is responsible for administering elections from the top down in a Secretary of State type position, or like we currently have at Lieutenant Governor's office, which actually has rulemaking power that can actually alter the outcomes of elections. And so the, the role was that they would just have the, the, the ballots signed and certified and delivered, and then that individual and government would be the record keeper. So I would urge a return to precinct level credentialing, precinct level counting of the votes, just like we do in the caucus system in the Republican party. That's the proper way to do it. So I would urge opposition to this on those grounds.

Uh, Seth, so you're urging opposition to this bill. What do you see the role of the lieutenant governor as? Do you mean currently Under, under what you're proposing going back to precinct level voting?

Yeah, so, so I would, I would, I would an analogize the role of the Lieutenant Governor under my proposal to what is in the United States Constitution for the President of the Senate. Essentially, all of the ballots have already been counted. They're signed, sealed, and certified and delivered to the Lieutenant governor or who, whomever. Right. And then they simply announced the winner. There's no rulemaking, there's no policymaking effect. The, the president of the Senate had no role in actually dictating to the states how those ballots were to be cast or what the rules and regulations around that were. The states were independent under the constitutional design to, to make those rules and regulations themselves. And in a similar manner, the various precincts and, and however the voting is administered locally was supposed to be done according to the local rulemaking. So, so when I show up to caucus, this is something every Utah should have experience with. We, we need to experience this. When I show up to caucus night, we, we credential, we, we know each other. And so it's really easy to verify each other's identity. Right. And then we self-assemble into volunteer poll workers and volunteer poll watchers. And those are the people who count the votes. That's how the election is administered. And then those results are signed, certified, and sealed and delivered to the record keepers.

May I ask a follow-up question, Mr. Chair?

You. Um, so last major election, the Republican party used a, a poll for presidential preference. Um, people were storing votes in Tupperwares. There were more votes of people. And so this is, this is the system you want to use for all of our voting. You know what, the more, uh, the less centralized control we have over the elections, the more secure ultimately they'll be because the harder they will be to game if you have, if you have oversight from the people themselves. And that is truly independent. Whereas if, if you have centralized tabulation, et cetera, according to the Constitution, we should not be having presidential preference polls at all. It's supposed to be an indirect election. That's, that's the constitutional mandate. It's not supposed to be done by a popular vote.

Bring it up here again. Uh, it's Amendment one. Yes. It was just catching a word change where says, Uh, I'll move amendment one. Okay. And I was just informed that that amendment one just, uh, changes the word Lieutenant Governor to Secretary of State. Secretary of State. It was a word. Correction. Okay. So that's the motion that we move Amendment one.

Uh, move that we pass out favorably. HB 5 29 as amended.

Thank you. And thank you for the motion. I appreciate that. They are definitely once a companion to the Constitutional amendment. If I could just, uh, address what the person said. I, I'd like to just follow up on what, uh, Seth Stewart had mentioned. If even if we had gone back to all the precincts counting the votes, there still needs to be somebody who's going to be the record keeper, as he said, which would be a Secretary of State and there would definitely be our county clerks who would be tallying that. And then the official results would end up to the, to the Secretary of State. Uh, someone has to oversee those. And then as far as rulemaking power, I know there's been some discussion about that in, in our legislature in our house and the legislature has oversight over rulemaking power and I would really appreciate that we're a part-time legislature and that we have those full-time experts every day doing those jobs that set those rules and that we are able to go in with, uh, an amazing committee that go in and have oversight over over those rules. And so I think that's addressed in just in our statute. So I appreciate that. Thank you for your support on this.

Yeah. And Ashley, Good morning. I'm so excited to be here in front of you. Thank you for giving me some time to send over and listen to hear the separation of powers, the bill that I have for Lieutenant Governor and a Secretary of State. I appreciate the time. Some of you have given me to chat with me beforehand and hear what I'm trying to do with this bill. First of all, I just wanted to let you know this bill is not about any person. It's not about a party, politics or personality. It is about structure in 1974. Lemme go to the next slide, please. We'll go to that one. Thank you. In, in 1974, uh, we had a constitution amendment and it was to bring a lieutenant governor. And that failed about 555,000 people voted in it in the last Constitution amendment we had 1.49, and then there was about, it was just right about, um, another a thousand in there. So I just wanted to tell you that what we had back then, compared to what we have now as far as the electorate is incredibly higher. Could you go back two slides, please? Now one more forward. There we go. The other, the only other states that have a lieutenant governor, but don't have a Secretary of state, as you can see, are Alaska, Hawaii, and then our very own state, uh, ours is indirectly elected on a joint ticket, as you know, with our governor only Utah and Alaska do that. I wanted to share with you that it's my belief that an independently elected directly accountable to the people, secretary of State would enhance the, the view of elections and the, the, uh, administration. And let's go to the next slide and I'll clarify why and we can go to the next slide. Thank you. I'll just go on with myself. The reason that that is, is because you have that Independence and we have other constitutional officers, the auditor, the Attorney General, and the, uh, treasurer, thank you. I had a friend back here, say it for me. And a treasurer. And they all have a specialized position, as would the Secretary of State as it used to have. And so it's my contention that if we go back to a Secretary of State and keep a lieutenant governor, where the Lieutenant Governor is still the succession plan, Lieutenant Governor is also the ambassador for the governor and for all of the, the agenda items that the governor is trying to do. And I feel that that is actually a better way in use of our Lieutenant governor. I don't know if anybody's noticed, but the last couple years, our Lieutenant Governor's been slammed in the media and has had the taint of elections follow our lieutenant governor. I don't think that's a good thing for a lieutenant governor in 1974. One of the reasons that they wanted to have a lieutenant governor was because, and, and the title of 19, in 1975, the title of it, where they gave the title of Lieutenant governor also to the Secretary of State and combined that by statute, the reason they did that is they wanted more prestige and dignity for the position. And I think the, the controversy surrounding elections do not enhance that for the lieutenant governor position. So I think we should move forward and, and go on to a lieutenant governor. And, and so you're asking why now? Well, now is the perfect time because our good governor has said that he's not running again. And so it's an open seat. Those that are running will understand and know what the positions are and what they're running for. And we'll also have people be able to get ready to run for a lieutenant or for Secretary of State. And again, the difference in why it's more transparent and why it's it's a better process is because we're reestablishing a separation of powers. We're reestablishing the fact that the people will independently and directly elect a secretary of state. Imagine you're at the Super Bowl and you have the top ref, and they put that ref in the game as the backup quarterback. Well, that backup quarterback is also on a share joint ticket with the starting quarterback. So there's your inherent conflict of interest that we created by structure. I'm go next slide please. As you can see, uh, the way this will work is there'll be on the ballot in November, and the first election would be in 2028, which would be for a two year term. And the beauty of having that in 2028 is because it's an open seat also because you'll have everyone who clearly really wants to run for a Secretary of State, a specialized position. We'll have that opportunity to run and we'll know who's really wanted to run for governor, who's really wanting to run for Secretary of State. And the voters can vet those candidates for those positions. Then it'll start the position in January 29. And in 2030 the Secretary of State will run again for four year term and therefore state on the four year terms. Next slide please. And, uh, the Secretary of State. Basically we're taking the by statute duties for Lieutenant Governor. We're picking them up and we're moving them over to the Secretary of State back where they used to be. And next slide, please. Uh, you can see what that says. That's, uh, what they need to, to qualify the next slide, please. So I just wanted to say that, um, you know, Senator Mcha, you have on one of your bills, you know how to fix a conflict of interest and other people have had in their bills how to fix a conflict of interest. We've had three years now of people trying to make these changes. So I created in the constitution portion of it that it says it's over elections, the Secretary of State's over elections, and then also by statute. And that if there's a conflict as a candidate, then it will go. And this part's in the statute, it will go to the Lieutenant Governor again, um, just for that particular race. And then if the Lieutenant Governor's also conflicted in that same election, then the Board of Canvasers will appoint a state official who's not conflicted to oversee. So you can see and read that next slide please. And these are more duties that we currently have with Lieutenant Governor. We'll transfer over. Thank you. Uh, some people have suggested what would Lieutenant Governor do, who you can see there's a lot. Uh, when I spoke with one of the past governors who was a lieutenant every before, but the as lieutenant governor, they were over water and over transportation. Also did the liaison portion and these other duties that were there. Um, next please. Thank you. You can see there's pages of it. And the next slide please. And the constitution does say form of the duties as may be provided by statute. And so this does keep it open. Our state is growing. We might have a need to give another, another duty by statute. So it keeps that open. Next slide. Thank you. So one of the best things about the lieutenant governor back in 1980 when the voters did adopt it by 56%, is the fact that we had that shared joint ticket. So it also was the succession plan. So our lieutenant governor will become the governor in the event of a vacancy, uh, putting the Secretary of State back in, puts it in the sixth position instead of the first position where it used to be. And we don't want that. I guess the second position, uh, we don't want that because we wanted to have a shared ticket with the same party. And if what happened before is if you have a Secretary of state and a different party, then you end up with an administration that's all in flux, you know, um, should there be a vacancy? So we've put that in there in the sixth position behind the Attorney General. Next slide, please. Thank you. In nine, oh, that doesn't line up the same way it did on my screen. In 1980, there were about 760,000 voters and in, in, boy, you really can't see the next one. Um, there was one point, boy, now it's not showing me 2 million. We're about two. Yeah. Keep, keep trying that one for me. Thank you. It's about, we'll just say that there's a lot more Now, as you can imagine, uh, we've had an increase of one point about 1.3 million voters. Uh, so it's 2.7 times larger electorate. So Utah continues to grow and you know where it's headed. That's what we're expecting to have as we get into the 24. So we currently have, now we adopted in 1980, we're running a 2040 election system with a 1980 governance design. I think that's a really important aspect to consider. Next, please. Thank you. So it does show here what I just explained to you. And I want you, I want you just to, to take a, a just think about that football game again. And this is the perception. Next slide, please. This is the perception that might be out there that some people feel that we have the backup quarterback in the game who's also one of the refs. And creating that separation of powers and reestablishing it, I think is key to Utah, to having a separation and to having that structure that we used to have where we had the, the, it would be the four other constitutional officers. So we have those and we have the governor and lieutenant governor. I think that really strengthens Utah. So I was on a podcast one time talking and as soon as I was done, there was this gentleman that got on and he said, you're just trying to hurt the office of the governor. And I said, no, it's quite the opposite actually. It's really quite the opposite. I'm trying to enhance the office of the governor, giving them a full time lieutenant governor to really help them with their agenda and to get their policies out and enacted. And if you go back a couple slides, so we don't need to go back a couple slides, but as the members, if they wanted to look later, they could see that. So I thought about that and later on I thought, wait a second. If he thinks it's hurting the lieutenant or the governor's office by taking the elections portions and having a Secretary of State and not having Lieutenant Governor over it, then therefore he must think it helps to be in the governor's office. And that's a problem. That's where we have the problem. So, uh, I just wanna reiterate as I, as I conclude, this is not about any person. Uh, it is not about any past or any future. It is about future. It is about the past, but it is about establishing the future where we have that inherent conflict of interest that's currently in our structure. We'll be gone. And I think the voters would appreciate that. With that, I'm open for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, I, I think that was a mischaracterization of, of the controversy, creed. You mentioned controversy in the media. I mean, there was no controversy in the media. It was controversy coming from a very specific, uh, part of the electorate. I know the, the folks that I represent actually feel very, uh, strongly that our elections here in Utah are safe and secure. And I think they actually feel that way because we have a lieutenant governor who has stood up to some of the, uh, disturbing influences coming from the outside that has been able to resist some of the politics of this. So, um, I don't really have a question here 'cause I think this is a really bad idea and is gonna move us in the wrong direction. And, uh, it definitely won't be supporting it moving forward. But, uh, I, I do think, you know, making a mischaracterization mischaracterization out of how this has been portrayed in the media does not help the case here. And, uh, I think that is actually creating the sort of, um, disillusions that we're seeing with the system. So just to, to put that out there. I I, I don't see a conflict here. I think a lot of folks feel very well represented, uh, with how things are going. Right now, we have not seen instances of elections, uh, getting steered in the wrong direction. We've certainly had candidates on the ballot who have tried to push things in the wrong direction, but, um, I don't think that's come from Lieutenant Governor's office. So I don't have a question. I just wanted to make sure that was on the record.

Thank you. And, and there you made it about personalities. And that's not what I'm trying to do. Our lieutenant governor, she could run this current lieutenant governor, I should say, um, could run for this position. It would actually be there for the current lieutenant governor to run should she choose to do so. And it's not about her. It's not about a negative. And it is the controversy of elections, no matter if it's just in the state of Utah, their controversy elections are, are actually worldwide.

Mikel. Yeah, I'm gonna echo some of the words of my Senate colleague. I actually think the Lieutenant governor has done a damn good job and faced a lot of hostility. That was unfair. You use the football analogy of a backup quarterback, and this bill asks, asks the quarterback to be the referee. I think the conflict is exactly the same. I think this grows government. This clearly is a new constitutional officer with a new set of staff. I don't think there's, I don't think this policy is conservative in any way. And, and lemme tell you one of my concerns. I've been getting text messages asking and demanding for transparency. I, I don't see anything in this policy that changes the election process. It doesn't change transparency, I don't think, I think this bill fails in two regards. I think it, it doesn't fix a conflict of interest and it certainly doesn't enhance transparency. And third, this, this policy grows, grows government, and, and in the football analogy, we, we are now, we are now creating a new quarterback that will also be the referee. And, and that doesn't, I just don't see how this solves, solves if those are the real concerns that we want to fix. Conflicts of interest. I, I think this fails. If we want to enhance transparency, I think this policy also fails. And for that, I, I'm not, I, you know, I, I've been pretty, pretty open about it, but I'm not gonna support this policy.

Um, can you clarify what the Lieutenant Governor's new duties would be?

They would be everything that we currently don't have in statute right now. Can you go back to those slides? And there's two pages plus anything that this, whatever, basically whatever the lieutenant, the governor delegates, that's basically really what it is. They also have roles on different, uh, they can be the head of a department, like I said, a former governor was the head of, of over water and transportation, uh, is two main things there. And then it talks about the chairperson of any board, um, and, and coordinate any, any government or interdepartment policies, programs. You know what it says right there? It's the liaison between the governor and basically all other government. And, uh, and I even threw in there from my visit with one of the good members of this group, um, just as of representing the governor when the governor can't, with foreign dignities, that s been thrown into this bill. Uh, the personal advisor. The chairperson member. I mean, you can see right there what it is. And they serve on all boards and commissions if the governor can't be there. And next page please. And the key point there is, and that's a constitution, and I just highlighted that number one, that any more duties that we can, that we do decide that we wanna put the Lieutenant governor over. And, um, I would just like to say too, that the separation of powers is the key here. When you have a joint ticket, you don't have that separation of powers. And, uh, I appreciate the comments that are positive about our Lieutenant Governor, but again, you're making it personal about a person. I can tell you that some of you would vote for this if there was a different person in there that you didn't like. Some of you, maybe not all of you, some of you would, um, based on some comments that have been made to me.

Gail Zeki with Utah Eagle Forum. Uh, I lived in Arizona before I moved here and in Arizona, we didn't have a lieutenant governor, we had a Secretary of State. And I thought that was ridiculous. I thought we should have both. And it, it turned out I was right. And you know why I was right? Because while I lived there, the Secretary of State was a Democrat and the governor was a Republican and they impeached the, the Republican and put in the Democrat. That was an interesting experience. But when I moved here and saw that there was a Lieutenant governor, I thought that was great. But why wasn't there a Secretary of state? So I'm not saying this because who, who is or isn't there now as the Lieutenant governor, I've thought this for the 35 years I've lived here, and I've been good friends with most of the, uh, lieutenant governors that, that we've had. But I still think we need a Secretary of State and that the Secretary of State should be independently elected and be an independent JO position. Please vote. Yes. Thank you.

of Utah Legislative Watch. And I am speaking in favor of the bill as well. I think it's an important change to the Constitution because it allows the people of the state of Utah to elect the person who many of them say is the most important elected office in the state. They say to me, if you, if you can't trust your elections, if if you can't vote for the person who is over those elections, then um, and, and it goes south, then we really, we really have no power over our elections. We've lost our republic. So, um, I hope that you'll, the, the sponsor did a great job of mentioning other things that work well. She worked in the conflict of interest bits so that the Secretary of State will not oversee their own election. Um, but the Lieutenant Governor is not actually elected. I don't, I think it's rare when anyone in the state of Utah says, I think I'll vote for the Lieutenant Governor. No, they vote for the governor and whoever we get for Lieutenant Governor is just like thrown in the mix. So please vote for the bill so that the, the people have the power of the vote over their elections. Officer, Thank you.

I'm speaking on behalf of United Women's Forum in favor of this bill. I love it because it does re bring us back to the constitutional very important principle of separation of powers. So it separates those powers out. It, I do believe that it does definitely increases transparency and it relieves a conflict of interest, um, between someone running for, you know, someone in charge of their own election, which is really puts that person, no matter who it is, it puts 'em in a very precarious position. Um, this is not a partisan issue. That's one thing I really like about it. This isn't a partisan issue, it's not a partisan bill and it's not personal. I actually think that this really supports the Lieutenant Governor, regardless of who they are, they're able to support the governor and be there for them and help do things that they, they can do their other duties. Thanks so much.

Okay. Aaron Davidson, Utah County Clerk, but I'm speaking for myself. Um, there is a conflict of interest and I think that we're trying to address those conflicts of interest in other bills, but it's more the accountability. Um, I believe that the, the person running the elections needs to be directly accountable to the electorate and that discussion and that dialogue needs to be individual to the elections. So for minority parties, this, uh, secretary of State gives them the ability to affect the dialogue that happens during the election about elections only. Not everything that the governor does. And this, the vote here today is simply to give the voters the ability to decide if they want the accountability held at the Lieutenant Governor's office or the Secretary of State. So yes, vote here in this committee and then in the Senate floor is strictly saying, I think the voters should have a voice as to who should have that accountability. So your vote vote today is not saying I supported Secretary of State. It's just saying I support the people wanting to have that, uh, voice of accountability. Thank

Alright, thank you. My name's Seth Stewart. I'm representing myself. Um, checks and balances require more than a separation of powers. It also requires diversification of incentives. I think that removing election oversight from the Lieutenant Governor's office is a great idea and efforts to hold public officials accountable for their influence over elections should be encouraged, not silenced or dismissed. The question is, how should that power be transferred? Line 2153 in the bill vests, the Chief election officer with oversight and general supervisory authority over all elections and functions relating to elections in the state, that is an extremely broad grant of power. The solution is to restore local oversight. This is the most transparent system. The caucus system in Utah is or was a model for local oversight and administration of elections. You can take the original presidential electoral college system. What administrative authority the was granted to the president of the Senate over how national delegates voted or how the states chose those delegates? Absolutely none. The only role of the president of the Senate was to open up the ballots that had already been signed, sealed, and transmitted to the Senate in the presence of the other national Congressmen members. So I would submit we need to take this back to 17 9 89 and add further checks and balances. We need more public and open debate on this subject. Okay. Thank

There we go. Hopefully, um, thought I just turned it on. Um, let Me, okay. Yeah, there we go. Okay. Um, yeah, I have a couple of concerns. Um, one I in the setting where we've had bills that have, Ellen,

Represent? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm, I'm Dr. Ellen Brady and I'm speaking on behalf of myself, um, um, live in Salt Lake County. Um, in the context we're in where there've been a lot of changes to the judiciary and claims made that this had nothing to do with controversial bills or such ever. I find the, you know, the assertion that this has nothing to do with current controversies to be, um, less than credible. But beyond that, I think the issue, there's several issues. One is, is that obviously creates another office that's a significant expense. But the other, the other bigger concern I have is that it is designed to be a partisan office. And I fear that segregating out elections as a, as an independent partisan debated issue, um, in our elections, um, is only going to serve to increase the angst and ojeda around elections that, um, I think as Senator Boone expressed within Utah, are some of the most secure and best in the nation. And I just don't want that controversy to be elevated into yet another partisan election debate.

Thank you. I'll make a motion to table this. It doesn't seem like there's sup support to get it out of the committee.

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunities to sum, I I just wanna say that I do think Utah needs to have a directly elected, independently elected Secretary of State. Um, I actually would just like to let the people know, I've said this in other meetings that I submitted these bills on May 7th before 2:00 AM which means May 7th of last year, which means prior to any of those, some of these big things that have come out. So I've been working on this for over a year. I have collaborated with many people and, uh, we've put in, I've made adjustments and we've put it all in there. Um, I, I agree with one of the people that spoke. Um, I do think it's time to send this to the voters. I think some people here that I've sta shared constituency with that if you actually poll those areas, uh, at least in my conversations and understandings with them, is that they're strongly in favor of the Secretary of State. Uh, i, I reject that people say that this is about, uh, any certain elected officials or not, because I actually like our current lieutenant governor. So just like to close with that and thank you very much.

And if you need to move on, that's fine. Thank you. I respect your decision,

Yeah, I, I'm concerned. I think this is, this has become a partisan issue. I mean, we are talking about, uh, an elected official here who there was, there were threats to impeach this person recently. So I think this follows along with, uh, what we've heard there in, in recent months. Uh, if this weren't a partisan issue, uh, I think this could be a, a non-partisan position, but this adds another partisan person to the ballot, uh, that I think we don't need partisanship injected into our elections. And I think that is what this will do, uh, more than we've seen to date. Uh, I think there are a lot of comments to the effect that this is, uh, this is unnecessary because we haven't seen actual issues. We've seen a lot of speculation and a lot of, frankly, conspiratorial thinking around elections in Utah despite having very safe, secure elections. We've seen audits that showed, you know, no illegal voters voting in our elections. Uh, none of those instances happening. Well, maybe one of those instances happening literally. Um, so I, I, I don't think, think this is addressing an actual problem. And I'm, I'm very, um, frustrated that these, these conversations continue to go on.

Madam Meeting Clerk House Bill 5 29 Secretary of State Amendments by Representative Shepherd. This bill was hurting government operations with the vote of 7 1 4

Thank you Mr. Speaker. 1974 we had a constitution amendment to have a secretary to take from a secretary of state to have a lieutenant governor. One of the arguments against this from the body was that we'll be creating a conflict of interest within the Lieutenant Governor by putting the duties of elections underneath someone who shares a ticket with the governor. That position is insulated from accountability and direct election from the people a shared joint ticket. You're electing two people on one ticket. Inherent problem that we have in our structure is that it's like putting the referee in the middle of the game and having them be the starting quarterback. And with the team manager being on the joint ticket, no other elected official and our government does, has, doesn't have a direct accountability for the duties that they do. This bill and the companion with it, the constitution amendment is not about any current or elected individuals who have served, but I believe it's a time to do the other part that was positive, what they tried to do, which was to dignify and create the prestige for the position of Lieutenant Governor. We have that. But since we have social media, mail-in ballots, signature verifications, drop boxes, late ballots coming in, redistricting all the things that have happened and increase the job, we need to have someone that we interview and vet for that position itself and for those duties. It's those reasons that back on May 7th, one of my first bills that I put in was for the constitution amendment is companion bill. That this bill is the companion bill in 1974. They failed it. The people failed this vote with over 60%. In 1975, just a few months later, the legislator created the position of Lieutenant Governor and put an ex officio of the Secretary of State in there. So they had both titles. In 1980, they did a constitution amendment and that constitution amendment. When in the arguments they said, we already have this in stature, so let's put it in the Constitution. There were 760,000 voters in 1980. In 2024 when we did amendment C, there's 14,000, there's 1,409,949 voters. So I want you to take that. We just, we just increased our voters, our our judges because our population has increased and it will only keep increasing to put someone in Mr. Speaker that can be directly elected by the people in a specialization like we have our treasurer, our attorney general, and our auditor. This position will be the sixth pillar to balance out our executive and we'll have someone that can campaign on it and we can find out what our lieutenant governor, what they will do if they step in. I don't like that our Lieutenant governor has had to have all the negativity and, and surrounding confusion and, and many of the things, I can't think of the word right now, that's been put onto Lieutenant Governor and that's our fault. It's our predecessors, when they put this in the constitution, asked the voters to vote for it in the way they did. We should never set up an elected official to have to have this type of an insulated position where they're insulated from the direct accountability and responsible, responsible and direct election, but they're not insulated from everything that surrounds it and surrounds elections nowadays. So I ask you to vote for this bill and Mr. Speaker, I'm open for any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this bill. I appreciate all the work that the good sponsor has put into it. I know it's been a ton of work. Utah is one of the few states left that doesn't have a Secretary of State. And I think that it would be good for us to separate the, the office of Sep, uh, secretary of State from the combined Lieutenant Governor, governor Ticket. And I urge everyone to vote in favor of this bill.

Thank you. Uh, thank you for setting up my sum. I appreciate that. We have 40 states in the United States that have a Secretary of State and 34 of them are elected directly by the people. Six of them are only elected by or they're appointed in various manners. Utah's number one in so many things. And I would love to see Utah not be one of three that only has lieutenant Governor. Let's go back and let's put the trust back in the people. Let's give this to them and put it on the ballot for them to make that decision. I can tell you that in all the conversations I've had, and I've had many over this last year, and we also have resolutions that have been adopted by, at least by the Republican party, that they say we should go back to a Secretary of State to provide that trust for the voters. I'm not saying that we have inherent problems every single time we have an election, but we shouldn't saddle our lieutenant governor with that responsibility. We should put it back to what we used to have as a Secretary of State. And with that, I ask for your support and vote. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

for its consideration matter. Marine clerk