H.B. 549 Energy Efficiency Rebate Amendments: transcript

Uh, thank you. I'll be speaking to sub one, and there should be an amendment also that was recently published. Perfect. Um, this is a pretty straightforward, simple bill. Uh, the Office of Energy Development has been tasked by the governor and by the state to sort of help develop an energy plan, a state energy policy moving forward that accounts for all sources, all resources, uh, needs, future developments, everything. And this is just adding in one little section into that that asks them to also, uh, look at if a large scale energy supplier or utility supplier, which would basically mean Rocky Mountain Power for Electric, or Enbridge used to be Quest Star, uh, Enbridge, uh, the gas they offer currently either the Watt Smart Program, uh, rebate program or the Thermalize rebate program. You can go get a re uh, if you do certain things in your house, insulation a Nest thermostat or different things like that, you can get a rebate that helps cover the cost for some of that. Um, and they provide these rebates all over the state. This is just asking them to report and provide information for, uh, the, a number of different areas. So it would be their residential markets, commercial markets, industrial irrigation, or any other customer class that they're serving with these rebate programs. As well as the amount, the rebates, the energy saved, how this program rolls out. So, um, it's asking them to provide that information every year, uh, on the program. And then the state will review it in the Office of Energy Development. And that is it. Pretty simple, straightforward Bill based on transparency and i'd, that's my presentation. I'd love any questions or comments you may have.

Yes. Thank you so much. Shallenberger, um, representative, um, can you explain a little bit about your sub? What,

Oh, yeah. So it started out, um, mostly I'd like to thank Representative Jack who is a heavyweight in this industry. He's been around, he knows a lot about, um, energy, and so he helped me craft this and narrow it down to get to a good spot. So, uh, we put, put some, a couple tweaks in, pulled some stuff out, and that's it.

Okay. So basically, um, this, the committee will, or the organization will come back by November to give a full report. Um, and that includes residential, commercial, industrial, and irrigation customers, correct? Correct. Okay. All right. This is, this sounds great. Thank you so much. Thank You.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am wondering on this with the rebates, um, do, does the government pay for these rebates, any of them? Or is it all just like, uh, the companies are paying for the rebates? How, how are the rebates actually happening? Because it's been around for probably 20 years.

Learn something new every day. Yeah. Thank you. Okay.

Um, what benefit do these reports have to, for the state to have a record of these rebates? What, how, what benefit would we gain from having that information?

So the office of the first is transparency, just to see how the rate payers, the users', um, money is being spent in these areas. But, so there's transparency, but also with the Office of Energy Development, they've been tasked to help plan the future of Utah and the energy use. And so, uh, this helps. It's a piece of that puzzle as they look at where the power's coming from, how is it generated, where's it gonna be used in what markets and what segments, whether residential or commercial or data centers, or irrigation or across, excuse me, or across the board. This is one of the pieces of the puzzle of how the energy is used.

Thank you. That's helpful. All right.

Yes, thank you. Chair. Uh, clay Monroe, uh, with Rocky Mountain Power slash Pacific Corp. Uh, I'm the managing director for our customer solutions there. So I, uh, run the division that does all of these programs across multiple states. And, uh, we've had the, the opportunity to work with Representative Shallenberger, uh, on this bill. Um, we're happy to, in, to continue to provide, uh, enhanced reporting. Uh, we currently provide robust reporting to the P to PSC, the Public Service Commission. Uh, and we're very happy to continue to provide enhanced reporting work and consult with OED, the Office of Energy Development, uh, to help Utah define and work towards its energy future. And so we just wanted to state that, uh, we were very happy, uh, to work on this bill and be as transparent as possible with all of the data and all of the customer funds that we are given stewardship over.

Hopefully it doesn't take a full 30 seconds, but I just am wondering what you hope to see come out of these reports. So you're going to be doing these studies, it takes $500,000, that's a lot of money to do with studies. What are you actually hoping to see? What sort of policies going forward are you hoping to further because of these reports?

Uh, I will, I'll speak clearly that the utility doesn't have an agenda or PO or, or desired policies and association with this reporting. We are here to do, uh, what our lawmakers think is best for our customers.

Thank you Chair and members of the committee. My name is Kevin Emerson. I work with Utah Clean Energy. We're a, a local nonpartisan non-profit organization that works to support energy efficiency and other clean energy resources. Uh, we appreciate the sponsors, uh, amendments, uh, to the bill. We would've liked to see some of the language from the first original bill, but that's for another day. Um, I wanted to share a couple of points because I think this, uh, this committee has important work to do. Um, uh, and with respect to this bill, energy efficiency or demand side resources are a very important part of Utah's energy, uh, on, sorry, an important part of Utah's any of the above energy strategy, energy efficiency, and demand side resources are also one of the most cost competitive ways that utilities can meet. Power demand in this, in the state of Utah that also supports, supports local jobs across the state in energy efficient construction and manufacturing, and all sorts of other, uh, sub-sectors. Uh, we'd like to just note that we think the current process for utilities reporting about these really impactful programs is working really well under the Utah, Utah Public Service Commission kind of regulatory process. And we think having additional transparency at the state, uh, through OE Office of Energy Development is, is a good thing. And as an organization that really supports this work, we're happy to work with this committee and the representative on making sure this process works well going forward.

Yeah, uh, sorry. Glenn Anderson. I'm pro professional engineer with about 30, uh, years in the energy efficiency industry. Um, I'm representing myself as a consultant and also representing a lot of my customers who are looking for, you know, energy solutions in the state. Um, basically we have big energy challenges and opportunities in the state confronting us. Um, the, the audit report that the legislature had done on the OED back in 2023 highlighted a lot of the challenges and opportunities that are out there, and the need for the OED to get a handle and create an energy plan for us. So all of that is great. And, you know, the intent to this is great. Now, the biggest thing that I see is we need sort of all hands on deck. We have people, we have customers that are moving outta state or choosing not to come in-state because we can't deliver them energy at the moment. The OED it does, I do not believe has the staff to take on reviewing these reports. I think there's higher priorities at the moment. We have a system that works, the Public Service Commission, you know, they review the DSM programs, everything is reported to them that is working already. I see this as a bit of a distraction where I think we need the OED focusing on our state energy plan and moving us forward.

Thank you. Uh, my name is Jake Deman. Um, I am also representing myself, although, um, I am active in the energy community here in Utah and currently work for, um, an implementer who designs and works through these rebate programs throughout the country. Um, I want to echo the statements that have been made before. Agree with transparency and, and the need for proper reporting, um, and am in full support of these programs and the economic benefit that they bring directly to participants as well as to the industry at large. Um, I do want to note, um, that many of these items are reported to the Public Service Commission and would like to understand a little bit better what additional information will be gathered through this reporting and what information is not currently available through these publicly reported metrics.

Okay. Can you see and hear me? Yep, you're on. All right. Thank you very much. Chairman Jack and committee members. I wish I could be there with you in person, but I appreciate the opportunity to, to testify online. Um, I also wanna thank Representative Shallenberger. Um, and note that substitute one resolves the, my initial concerns that I had with this bill. Um, I wanna note that, um, with these utility, uh, programs, they are paid for in rates. That means rate payers are paying for this not Rocky Mountain Power, not Enbridge Gas, Utah, and they must pass a cost benefit test. So it must be demonstrated that the, the long-term benefits exceed the cost paid for by rate payers. I simply wanna ensure that we continue to have our Public Service Commission oversight of these programs to maintain those rate payer benefits. And, um, like I said at the beginning, I think substitute one addressed my concerns and, um, I thank the good representative for his work.

something we want to do, Representative Dominguez, I move that we adopt sub one.

No, I waive. All right.

No, I'll waive. Thank you. Okay.

I do have a follow up question. Um, I know that a lot of our utilities report to the public commission, um, public Service Commission. Would this include municipalities and our small or our independent users utilities?

Okay. The small Thank you. Yeah, that was my question. They're, They're not subject to the public service commission in the same way that the investor owned utility is

I just wanted to clarify that. So thank you so much for that. And I have no other questions.

Oh, I'm a, I, no, I'm good.

Yes, yes, yes. I, I do.

I would move that, uh, the committee favorably advance 5 49 with a or sub one as amended.

Uh, yeah, Mr. Chair. Thank you. I I I think I'm gonna be supporting this, but I, uh, could, could I ask a question, Mr.

before it gets away from us. Okay. Um, Can you explain the fiscal note on this?

Yeah, the, the original bill was, uh, we reversed it. It was saying OED was gonna do the study and that's why it came out at $500,000. And that was supposed to be backwards. That Rocky Mountain Power and Enbridge are reporting to OED, not OED, doing a study going the other direction. So the new fiscal note is 90% lower. So there's, there's a new fiscal note on sub one, is that correct? Yeah, It's 50,000 instead of 500,000. So 50,000 not 500. And, uh, OED has already said they can handle that internally with their current staff.

Okay, thank you. Okay. Thank Mr. Chair. Thank you.

I'll waive. Thank you.

Ever, I would like to make a motion. We put it on consent.

Do it.

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure that this is gonna be a good one for consent because as I read it, I had a lot of questions with it and it kind of has a lot to it. So I, I don't know if it's a super great one in my mind for it, but,

Thank you, uh, committee. This, this comes from an interesting time. You, you may be familiar with, uh, on the Rocky Mount Power side, they serve roughly 80% of our state providing electric power and formerly Quest Star. Now Enbridge, uh, provides gas for even more than that. Uh, so they also provide energy efficiency programs, and it's going on 20 years. And so this is the type of program where if you get a new air conditioner, a new furnace, a new nest thermostats, a new insulation, uh, different things like that, uh, you can qual pay to get a rebate and it helps, uh, offset the cost of that measure. Uh, on the other side, we have the Office of Energy Development. We've been working in collaborating with the Office of Energy Development. They've been tasked with creating a state energy plan, a state energy policy to look forward and ask, where about looking at the supply and demand? Where are we getting our energy? Where are we gonna meet our energy demands? And energy efficiency is one piece of that puzzle. And so this has been, uh, created to help address that. It's just asking the large scale public utilities. So Rocky Mount Power and Enbridge to provide an annual report to the Office of Energy Development. And outline like what measures they're providing or how many measures did they actually install or were installed, did they pay a rebate for? And, uh, the estimated energy savings that would be attributed to those measures. Um, so fairly simple and it would apply to residential customers, the different segments across the state, residential, commercial, industrial irrigation, or, uh, any other segment of that program that may, uh, be in there. And so that is, it's a pretty simple bill, helps address transparency and help, helps, uh, the Office of Energy Development plan for the future energy needs and, uh, demands across the state of Utah. And it would go into effect that later this year, they would be reporting for the previous year for 2025. So that is my presentation. Would welcome any questions or comments?

There we go. Senator Riebe. I, I just Wanna compliment you on this bill because we searched everywhere to find somebody saying anything about this bill and it's silent. So congratulations. You ran an energy bill that nobody's talking about. So it's a wonder, oh wait, maybe not. Have I spoke to soon?

Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, Tom Carter with Rocky Mountain Power, and, uh, I always have something to say that's one of my deficiencies. I think, um, uh, as, uh, the sponsor mentioned, Rocky Mountain Power has a number of energy efficiency and Ray Bay programs, including Watts Smart and Cool Keeper. And as you mentioned, these can go to residential or commercial industrial irrigation, a number of different customers. Um, and these programs provide both energy, uh, and financial savings for our customers. One of the things that I like to say, and I think many of you have heard me say this before, is that we don't run our business. We provide information to the people that do, and the people that do are the Public Service Commission. And so we do at this time, currently provide reports on these programs to the Public Service Commission so they can understand and ensure that these programs are done in a way that are prudent financially for the utility and for our customers. Um, and, but we look forward to providing these reports, enhanced reporting to the Office of Energy Development, uh, because this is a different type of perfor report and a different perspective because they need to, we need to ensure that these programs are aligning with the state energy, uh, policy. And so we appreciate the work that we've been able to do with the sponsor, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Josh Croft, Utah Clean Energy. I wanna thank, um, Representative Shallenberger for his work on the bill. And I think the fact that there are fewer questions showed that there was good discussion and good outreach to stakeholders. Um, we're supportive of this and we think that energy efficiency and demand side management programs are a very important part of meeting our state's energy needs cheaply and affordably. Thanks. Thank you very much.

I, I would make a motion that we favorably recommend first substitute house bill 5 49

Thank you, uh, Mr. Chair. And you can call me out of order, but I need to know if this is our last, uh, committee meeting for this session. Okay. Then before we adjourn, I wanna say something. Okay. But, uh, thank you for this.

I do. Mr. Chair, this is perhaps the longest meeting we've had all session and I'm here for it. This has been a very, um, wonderful and pleasant, um, and actually joyful committee and I wanted to thank you. Uh, yeah, we've had a lot of fun with, uh, Senator Rebe here cracking jokes all the time. I wanted to thank you Mr. Chair, for your work. Uh, as as chair, it's just been a great committee.

To Adjourn. Gotta get, have her do her favor. Motions.

First substitute House Bill 5 49, energy Efficiency Rebate amendments by Representative Shallenberger. This bill was heard in public Utilities and Energy with a vote of 9 0 3.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I would like to yield the remainder of my time to Representative Shallenberger.

Thank you. I'd, uh, I'd like to, I'd help to create this bill is working with, uh, representative from St. George and the Office of Energy Development on this bill. So I can speak to this bill and give some of the background on it. Uh, this comes as the state, uh, office of Energy Development is tasked with creating the state energy plan as they look at all the different types of energy and how much and where we need it and where it's going, uh, into our future. And this is looking at one little niche, one piece of that puzzle, which are energy efficiency rebates typically coming from the large utilities in the state, which is, uh, that you may have heard 'em as the Watt Smart or the Thermalize program. Uh, you put in like a Nest thermostat or insulation or a new air conditioner and you can get some money to help cover the cost of those. So is what this does is, uh, addresses them to provide a report, an annual report to the State Office of Energy Development. Uh, that tells how many of these items they're installing, how many they've done for the last year, how much end of the energy they will attribute to that measure, and, uh, sort of where the money's going in these programs, uh, so that the Office of Energy Development can account for these programs. These mu these programs are paid as sort of a surcharge and the energy bill from the rate payers. And it goes into a bucket that these programs are then funded out of. Uh, that is it and would welcome any questions about this program.

Thank you Mr. Speaker with the sponsor yield Representative Monson, will you yield?

Yes. Yes. Representative Albrecht.

Thank you. So this just only applies to Rocky Mountain Power and Enbridge Gas, correct?

Yes. Thank you.

Yeah. Is, is there a sub on this? No. I'll, I'll waive

OED is tasked with creating a state energy policy plan. Uh, large, large scale public utility companies need to report annually to OED on their energy efficiency programs. But this current, and this currently does not apply to small towns, uh, municipalities or co-ops. So large public utility companies currently charge a small fee for their energy efficient efficiency programs. And this bill is just an effort to bring some transparency to the table to ensure that the energy rebate program aligns with the state's energy policy.

Okay. Under suspension of the rules, I move that we pass. First substitute house Bill 5 49.

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Senator Macl, do you have a motion? Yes. Thank you Mr. President, we're gonna add three. These are three fiscal note bills. I'm, I'm told these are, are kind of the final wave of fiscal note bills from the house. So, Mr. President, I move that the following bills be lifted from rules and the third reading calendar and placed at the bottom of the second reading calendar in the following order. House bill 3 31, substitute two house bill 4 0 1 and house bill 71 substitute four. That is my motion.

Well I'm gonna substitute it. Okay, Mr. Uh, president, I would like to move to, um, delete entitle embody four substitutes house bill 68. Replace it with the sixth substitute house bill 68. That changes the effective date. Okay, so that motion's in order looking for the motion to,