H.B. 563 Radon Amendments: transcript

House Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Environment Committee, Mar 2, 2026

1. Chair Albrecht (presiding)0:53

   So we'll move to item two, HB 5 63. Ray Don Amendments by Representative Shallenberger. Time is yours, sir.

2. Rep. David Shallenberger1:03

   Thank you, chair. Um, I'm here with Jake Andrew today. He's gonna do the majority of the speaking. Uh, this is a, a, a radon bill talking to the radon industry. There's some background in this industry where, uh, the sales guys typically shows up at the house and says, this is a very dangerous substance, and, uh, Jake will be able to speak to this. Mr. Ander will be able to speak to this more, but they then also have the solution. So, uh, this bill is sort of looking at this saying, we wanna add some guidelines and some structure to this so that when they do show up to your house, they actually are certified. They've done the whatever regulations might be required by the state or the federal government to show that they're actually, uh, trying to do what they say they're doing and not just a slick sales guy. So, I'd like to turn the time over to, uh, Jake and let him speak to it.

3. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org1:59

   Go Ahead. Thank you members of the committee. Um, first and foremost, uh, part of this presentation is just to bring you up to speed on what radon is and why it's an issue in the state. And then to talk about what this bill does. I'll just take one minute or so to do that. So, radon is a gas that is an off gas of uranium, and uranium is prevalent here in the state of Utah. And as it rises and comes through the Earth's crust, oftentimes it just goes out and seeps out into, uh, the air and the environment. And as long as you maintain, uh, less than four picocuries per liter, it is, uh, rather benign in in the environment. But in Utah, because of the, um, high level of radon gas and uranium that is here, we get it trapped in our basements. Um, if you don't have a walkout basement or you have an unfinished basement, those are usually the most highly, uh, toxic areas. So radon gas is a radioactive gas that accounts for being the number one leading cause of non-smoking lung cancer. So, in Utah, uh, working with a Huntsman Cancer Institute and the, uh, heart and Lung Association, Utah has anywhere from three to 400 deaths each year from non-smoking lung cancer. Uh, it's easy to, the scientists now have several decades of information that they've been collecting this, and when you factor out all other potential causes, that is their finding. So you can't, just like with smoking tobacco, you can't definitively say this led to that, you can't get to a hundred percent conclusive, but you can get to 99.999% conclusive. So, uh, the Huntsman Cancer Institute, the Department of Environmental Quality, have all, uh, recommended that this is something that each uan because of our high level of uranium in the state, each UAN should get tested. So this is how it works. Radon seeps in, it gets trapped underneath the, the, the, uh, concrete slab of your basement and follows the path of least resistance and gets, uh, into your basement. It's heavier than normal ambient air, so it actually settles lower in your home. When you have people that then go down into your basements and into low traffic areas, they can breathe in this gas, it is radioactive because it's heavier than normal air. It settles in the bottom sections of your lung and begins to fester. And that's how it is causing so much cancer and damage in the state of Utah. Utah is a subset of, of the United States. The United States average averages about 1.3 curies per meter or per liter, Utah's 4.4 pico curies per liter, um, which is three and a half times the national average. I have had, uh, staff, uh, with the permission of the chair hand out these forms for you to look at. Uh, first and foremost, down in the bottom right hand corner, uh, you'll see that there's a QR code. Through that QR code, you can order a free test to have your home tested. If you would like, I am here today representing, uh, a new nonprofit organization, Utah radon.org, uh, with 5 0 1 C3 pending status. I need to make sure that that's clear. Uh, and what we are doing is we are working really hard to establish a good public awareness of this potential risk and, uh, problem in our homes. Uh, you guys will remember the earthquake that happened in Magna, uh, several years back. Magna was an area that was testing below average, but after that earthquake, it's now testing more than twice as high as it was before. So this, these, these areas can shift over time and the problem can shift over time. So what do you do about it? What this bill does is it says, we are plugging into existing licensure through Doppel. We're not saying this has to be a brand new license, because what you do is you drill a hole in your concrete in the basement, and you have to vent out into the atmosphere, right? So up through your roof or out to a sidewall, and then out, uh, that four inch tube, you end up, uh, excavating about a one, one foot by one foot by one foot square, uh, area, creating a vacuum underneath your, um, your slab. And then you put a fan at the top of that tube, and it sucks the air. And so the radon, when it hits the concrete, follows the path of least resistance. And that negative pressure pulls it and vents it out, thereby making it harmless in your home. A typical home, uh, let's say it's a 4,500 square foot home, two stories. So you're looking at, uh, a footprint of roughly 1500 square feet in the basement, and one fan can service, uh, approximately 1800 to 2000 square feet. It costs anywhere from, uh, 1200 to 1500 to properly ventilate your home. Um, so what we recommend is that you order a test kit, you put it in, it will give you instructions, you put it in your home, and there are various test kits. The most common one is a charcoal test kit. You just simply put it out for 48 hours, and then you send it in. And the, the te most of the testing is, some of it is done here locally, but a lot of it is done in Texas. And then they send back what your readings are. It takes, uh, about 10 days or so for the test results to come back. And then that tells you, uh, what, what the problem is. Approximately 80 to 85% of the tests are being done, uh, by homeowners themselves with these charcoal tests. But you can, uh, purchase other, uh, and electronic tests that give you, uh, an ongoing testing of, of radon in your home. If you have high levels of, of radon, which is anywhere from two to four people, curies, uh, the EPA recommends that you seriously consider mitigation. If you're under two, they, they don't recommend it unless you have chronic issues, uh, as the homeowner. But they say anything over four people. Curies per uh, leader is a problem, and every home should, uh, try to get the mitigated. Utah has approximately 48% of our homes that have higher than average PICO Q levels based upon the information. These radon kit test kits, when we send them out, they collect the data in aggregate so that it's not individuals, but we do collect, uh, aggregate information area by area county by county. You'll notice on the right hand side of that form I handed you are, uh, what we call the high, uh, risk areas, uh, the counties, Wasatch County Box Elder Cash, Illa Weber, the cities, Heber, City, Highland, Farmington, Pleasant Grove, Logan, uh, and, uh, cities Overall, Beaver Farr, West Millville, Wellsville, and Huntsville. That's based upon information that we have been collecting, like I said, for decades. So what the bill does, the bill, uh, at doesn't require new licensure. It does require EPA certification. Those EPA certifications are overseen by, um, I'm gonna have to look this up here, the, excuse me, just one second. And I'll tell you, it's a national association that the EPA says that we should follow. Their recommendations is the National Rate on Safety Board and the Indoor Environments Association. Through those websites, you will be able to not only, uh, see what the recommendations are, but you can actually register your certification, take an online class. That class takes about two hours. I did it. I, I was, uh, radon certified before I even joined the legislature. I used to do mitigation, which is why I'm involved with this. And it really, it's online. It takes about two hours. You get that certification, then, then the public can be confident enough to know that whoever is doing the mitigation in their home is actually certified qualified and is doing it properly. Uh, the association I work for finds that less approximately 10% of the, um, homes that they now mitigate are coming in to do repairs on previously mitigated homes because they were done inappropriately and they still have pico carry levels that are too high. So what the bill does is it directs the Department of Occupational Professional Licensing to set up rec requirements similar to we're, we're framing this similar to the natural gas. Whenever anyone touches Natural gas inside a home, they have to have certain licensure and, and certifications. We're, we're structuring this exactly after that, and we're directing the dopel to require anyone who's going to do radon mitigation services to simply get certified so that we know that they know what they're doing, so that the public doesn't think that they have a safe home, when in reality it wasn't done right. And I'll tell you, one of the number one things we're seeing is, yes, they put in the pipe, they excavated out properly, and they even put the fan in, but they never connect the fan to an electrical source. So that's, it's just simple. But, um, we're not needing new licensure. General contractors, plumbers, electricians, HVAC, already have the authority through Doppel to do these services because they're licensed. And so they know how to do the, the technical aspect of putting plumbing in. But if they don't know exactly what the requirements are, what the levels are and everything like that, if they don't do it correctly, it ends up being a big problem. So, uh, we have had c the reason we're running this bill is we've had certain circumstances, um, and some of your colleagues I know, um, Representative Peterson, Tom Peterson has run into this up in Weber County, um, of people who come in and, and this is what Representative Schoenberger was referring, they come in and they will, uh, mitigate the home, but they won't do it correctly, and they're not quite certified, so they don't, they don't do it right. And so people think that they're safe when they're not. And so this is a public safety bill. We're simply directing Doppel to have anyone who is going to do radon c radon abatement to be certified. And, um, that is in essence what the, the bill does. It just sets up a rule. Uh, we di a direct doppel to set up a rule to make sure that li that certification is included as part of this mitigation. With that, um, I'll turn back over to Representative Schulberg And that'll conclude our presentation.

4. Chair Albrecht (presiding)12:43

   Okay. To any questions. Thank you. We'll bring it back.

5. Rep. Doug Owens12:45

   Committee Representative Owens. Thank You, Mr. Chair, and thank Nice see you, Senator. Um, I just, uh, I, you said something quickly, I wanna make sure I understood it. There's already an EPA certification that these remediators have to have, or how did you say something about that?

6. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org13:01

   No, there is a standard that the EPA says if you're going to mitigate, these are the standards that you need to get the home to in order for it to be deemed safe. But it doesn't relate to approving a contractor to Do the work. That's exactly right. Okay. There isn't any, there isn't any national or state requirement on this. Um, I will say that working with, uh, Eleanor, uh, Vernal at the Department of Environmental Quality, she's the one that is receiving the complaints that come in, uh, which she receives dozens every single month. And so, uh, we're kind of doing this to try to help educate the public and get them so that people who are doing the installations of these are doing so appropriately and the public is actually safe. I thank you Further questions from the committee, uh, chairship.

7. Unknown speaker13:52speaker not certain

   Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, has there been a lot of reporting of badly installed systems?

8. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org14:01

   Not a lot. Some, um, it's anecdotal at best. Meaning I, um, I've talked to, there are about six major, uh, radon abatement entities. There really only two, but there are like five or six others, uh, that do this. And so anecdotally they've said, oh, we've had to do these repairs, but is there any sort of official statistical report? Nothing that I'm aware of yet. Um, and so it is anecdotal, uh, but we also know that the level of the number of homes that have actually been abated is relatively little. So what we're trying to do is just making sure that when people find out that they have a problem and they do get it mitigated, they real, they are actually getting it mitigated by someone who knows what they're doing.

9. Unknown speaker14:44speaker not certain

   Uh, another question, Mr. Chair. Sure. Uh, so are there, uh, you know, we have a lot of salespeople out there for pest control and solar and stuff like that. Are you, are there people out there going around wanting to test for this, uh, uh, kind of salespeople that, uh, you mentioned early on something about a salesman comes in and and wants to test. And so tell me, tell me what's going on right now as it relates to radon?

10. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org15:12

    Well, right now, I think a lot of that has gone away, but there have been problems in the past, for instance, and I'm, I'm aware, not 100%, but I'm, I'm arm's length aware of what happened up in Weber County. Uh, there were a lot of veterans that were being, uh, targeted 5, 6, 7 years ago to come in and test their home. It's not six seven, but they, they came in and they tested their home. And truth is a lot of the work that, uh, I know representative Tom Peterson, when he was doing inspecting and doing contracting up there, he ran into a lot of problems up there. So I'm not aware of current sales practices that are, that are happening that are untoward, but we do know it has happened in the past. And I think it's, it's shaken a lot of people's, uh, confidence in, uh, whether or not this is an issue or they need to do anything about it.

11. Unknown speaker16:01speaker not certain

    So, yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I got a couple of questions. Um, I, I noticed on your handout, cash is high, uh, Beaver in my district's highest overall city. Um, I've got a son that lives in cash, actually, Paradise, he tested and his home was quite high. So he did have someone come in and, and mitigate. Uh, and like you said, they drilled a couple holes in his basement floor and invented it outside. Um, what was the price you said they,

12. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org16:38

    It's, it varies company by company, but it's usually for about 1500 square feet. It's, it's roughly, um, 1200 to $1,500 for the full mitigation.

13. Unknown speaker16:48speaker not certain

    Yeah, I think his home's a little bigger than that. I think he paid around $2,500, but That, that might have been depending on the, the, the, the footprint of his home. Yeah. That, that would make sense. We had unusual reports of Cancer and Beaver. Um, I don't know if we've had reports.

14. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org17:09

    Uh, I wish I had someone from Huntsman Cancer Institute because they would be able to address that a little bit more, uh, informed than I, the only thing I know, and what you're seeing here is testing levels, not cancer levels, because the, the representative, Mr. Chair, for that's the whole point of this bill, right? Like this is completely 100% preventable if you know about it. And you take the, the affirmative steps and the appropriate steps to mitigate it properly. So, I don't know.

15. Unknown speaker17:42speaker not certain

    That is one of the questions I had as we've been discussing this though, is the correlation versus causation question, which you're bringing up, which you're, you're saying these are the highest cities or the highest counties around here. Do we also see significantly higher lung cancer rates in those same areas compared to other areas around the state?

16. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org18:02

    Uh, and this bill is not addressing that. This is just saying the people that are out there doing the remediation, that, that they do an EPA test and it comes in line with Doppel or that Doppel make a rule that says they have to do the EPA test so that they at least know what they're talking about. They know what they're doing if they're gonna be doing the work.

17. Unknown speaker18:21speaker not certain

    But those are questions that I've had, like, is this a correlation or a causation thing? And are, do the cancer rates match these high areas that, that are on this list?

18. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org18:32

    I do know that information exists. I don't have it in front of me. I can get a though.

19. Unknown speaker18:37speaker not certain

    Yeah. This is not the first time I've heard a radon bill. We heard it in natural Resources interim committee a couple years ago and had some witnesses that had never smoked that got cancer and so forth. But you know, what really surprises me on your data sheet is, um, you take the area in the state where we mined Uranium, Maine, Garfield Kane, San Juan, uh, southeast portion of the state, uh, they're not even listed. I don't get that. Part of that's because there aren't a ton of homes in those areas.

20. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org19:14

    So these tests reflect where we've actually ins installed tests in homes. So I would, I would venture to say, um, Mr. Chair, that they are high, but because they're out, you know, in the wilderness area of southern Utah, most of those areas are not gonna have residences where we have positive tests that show the levels.

21. Chair Albrecht (presiding)19:35

    Representative Watkins,

22. Rep. Christine F. Watkins19:37

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will say that. 'cause I'm like you. I'm, I'm like, why isn't my area more represented? But I, I will tell you, we've had a number of people over the years that I've lived there, uh, who have died from ca lung cancer, and they were nowhere near anybody that smoked or anything. And by the time they realized they had it, they literally had weeks Yep. Uh, before we lost them. So I know it's a, it is a problem. And, um, that was interesting about the earthquake and kind of disrupting that. So, um, but I'm, I'm glad that we're going to make it so people really know what they're doing. So, thank you.

23. Chair Albrecht (presiding)20:17

    Seeing no other questions from the committee, I'll open it up to public comment. Is there anyone in the room that would like to comment? Come on up. Mr. Andre, if you could move your, get both seats filled. Come on up. There you go. Go ahead. State your name and who you represent.

24. Tabitha Benney20:41

    Good morning. Representative Gricius and the committee members. Um, my name is Tabitha Benny. Um, I am from Salt Lake City, Utah. Uh, my daughter, Adela was born and raised here in, in Utah as well. Um, and while I'm testifying today as a private citizen who opposed this bill without amendments, I've worked for about 20 years as a researcher studying policies on indoor air quality and human exposure. I'd be happy to answer those questions that you asked of the sponsors. I, I know the answers to those quite well. Uh, while I feel it's important for a radon bill to be developed here in Utah, where at least one in three homes have been found to have the elevated radon, um, this bill in its current form would only serve to protect the radon companies, allow them to take advantage of my fellow Utahans, and intentionally prevents meaningful action around radon in the future. I know this is not what you all intend for a radon bill to represent. First, this bill allows radon companies with unqualified staff to install mitigation systems in our homes with very little oversight. This matters because radon systems need to be placed properly in the home, or the customer will continue to be exposed to this dangerous carcinogenic. I've seen many examples of this issue with my own eyes. We wouldn't want a handyman to come in and mitigate our home for asbestos or for lead, but this is exactly what this bill will allow, is for less oversight, not more. Um, it also will make the problem worse and prevent utahns for taking action when these type of behavior does occur. Second, this bill does not require nationally recognized rules for radon or for testing of certification of radon professionals. While they mention this in their presentation that's not currently in the bill, an amendment would be required to, uh, uh, to have the national certification standards, uh, be made part of this bill. This will allow radon companies otherwise to use subpar standards and fear tactics to scare Utah, Utah into very expensive mitigation system, much higher than the number they just reported to you in the introduction of this bill. These mitigation systems are often something many Utah utahns can't afford, or when they do, it takes away their entire savings in order to afford these in their homes when they're not even needed in many occasions. For example, the EPA standard suggests a radon level of four picocuries per liter of error higher. And this is the cutoff for radon mitigation. However, the companies like the one that introduces Bill, currently sends customers a free radon charcoal test kit, like the one in the QR code that they presented in their flyer to you and asks them to do their own testing in their home without being an expert, and then sends them misleading results that suggest their home is unsafe at much lower levels using references to foreign standards that don't even apply here in the United States. Can you wrap it up, ma'am, please? Yes. However, radon mitigation system should be applied at the proper levels based on the EPA standard, A standard that's based on uranium miners, many from Utah themselves. These are well-established standards. And finally, a bill on radon testing and certification should be developed using the appropriate agencies for our state. Placing the regulation of radon under Doppel will not assure this carcinogen is regulated properly. And the radon companies know this. The proper place for radon regulation is in the division of air quality in the Department of Environmental Quality. The radon companies know this, and their goal is to push through this bill without proper regulatory placement to prevent any regulations or further oversight of the industry. Because of this, I'm asking you all today to stand up for Utahns and their families. Radon is a serious issue. It kills more people every gear than drunk drivers, drownings and fires Combined. Who's finished, ma'am? Yet? All deaths from radon are preventable. There are good examples of how to do this effectively by either adding the four requested amendments for provided to the sponsor by the American Lung Cancer Association, or requesting a whole. So this bill can be properly developed. Thank you for your time.

25. Chair Albrecht (presiding)24:26

    Thank you. Is Adelaide gonna comment? Adelaide, glad to have you here. Are you gonna comment today? He's Gonna comment, Pull the microphone right down in front of your mouth and state your name and

26. Adelaide Benney Mathews24:49

    Hello, chairman and members of the committee. My name is Adelaide Benny Matthews. I was born and raised here in Salt Lake City, Utah, and I am here as a private citizen to oppose the raid on Bill being heard by the committee today. My mom has worked on radon issues in Utah for many years. Now, while I am not an expert, I have learned a lot because my mom often makes me come with her to teach other people, um, about radon and how dangerous it can be. Although I think it is important to pass a radon, but like this one, I think it's wrong to let one radon company decide all of these laws all by theirselves that isn't how laws should work. I am worried that this one rich company will make these laws that help them to take advantage of Utahans like me, especially since they have not worked with important partners like the American Lung Associ Association or the other radon partners in Utah. I also know that there are many smart people at the University of Utah who want to work to develop a law that reflects what has worked in other states. But when they ask the sponsors of this bill to consider that they ignored them, I really hope you stop this bill and make sure you put something into place that does more to protect Utahans from radon and less to make one rich company richer. Thank you.

27. Chair Albrecht (presiding)26:34

    Thank you, Adelaide. That was very brave of you. Appreciate you coming to our committee with your mom. I think we might have a question for your mom. Representative Arthur Representative Chew.

28. Rep. Scott H. Chew26:47

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have a a question for, uh, the mother, but I do for, uh, Adelaide, if she wouldn't mind answering. Uh, I'm just curious, what grade are you in and have you ever been up to the capitol before? I'm in third grade and I have not been up to the Well, I appreciate you coming here. It takes a lot of, uh, nerve to, to sit up in front of a bunch of us old cusses up here, but, uh, certainly, uh, you've done a good job and, uh, your mom's work is really important. Thanks for coming up here with her

29. Chair Albrecht (presiding)27:15

    Representative Arthur. Question for the witness.

30. Rep. Jake Arthur27:19

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. This microphone doesn't wanna come any closer. Uh, appreciate it. I, I'm curious, as I, as I look at the bill, I, I'm, I'm drawing a different conclusion than, than what you presented in your comments. This bill seems to just say that a person who is licensed to install, repair, maintain, clean, or replace a rate on mitigation system, um, will need to receive training and certification. Um, do you mind clarifying?

31. Tabitha Benney27:48

    Yes. It doesn't specify what type of certification. So that part has been left out. It doesn't specify that, uh, the IAE standard or the EPA standard would be required, although they discussed that in the introduction of the bill. The bill does not state that specifically without that, the standards can be the WHO or other, um, you know, non-American, uh, standards, which is what some of these radon companies do. They use standards from other countries or, um, that are not part of the, the United States standards. And they use those to scare Utahans into getting systems at much lower levels, um, when that is not required. Um, and these are very conservative standards. They've been around for quite some time. They're well-established.

32. Rep. John Arthur28:28

    Right. And it seems to me, if I may follow up, Mr. Chair, that that would be developed through doppel after this statute has passed, that they would then go into the process of developing the, the trainings and the certification standards. Currently, are there any, um, certification requirements for somebody who's installing a radon mitigation system?

33. Tabitha Benney28:50

    Um, there are, there are basic standards like getting your license as a construction license.

34. Rep. John Arthur28:54

    Mm-hmm. Um, but this is the same thing as getting an x-ray, right?

35. Tabitha Benney28:58

    Right. We wouldn't use a handyman to get an x-ray. Right. There are much bigger requirements that, um, are necessary for somebody doing that. And currently, they don't actually have to be, the certified person doesn't actually have to be in the home doing the work. Um, they only need to be involved in that process. That can sometimes be done by just a zoom call on someone's phone. But I can, uh, assure you, I've seen many cases, um, and talked to many Utahans who have had this sort of situation where the installation system wasn't put in properly. Often they don't test after the person has had the installation system. And then when somebody else goes back and does another test, they find out that the system is actually not mitigating their home to the proper levels. So it's important that people understand how to do this. We've talked to Doppel about this already. They claim themselves that they're not really the only place where this should be placed. That, uh, the Utah Department of Air Quality in conjunction with Doppel should be their proper authorities. And they, uh, time should be, you know, spent amending this bill, or a stop or hold should be put on this bill. So it can be developed, uh, with all the appropriate agency partners together to develop the bill fully and not, um, not just solely on the, um,

36. Rep. John Arthur30:05speaker not certain

    the construction side. Okay.

37. Chair Albrecht (presiding)30:06

    Thank you. Thank you representative. Thanks both of you for your comments, Adelaide, I hope we see you again in the future. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we got two chairs to fill. Whoever wants to comment.

38. Taz Biesinger, Utah Home Builders Association30:23

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. Taaz Beon with Utah Home Builders Association. I've been doing this for 34 years, and, you know, I wish I would've figured out a long time ago if I'd have just brought up a cute darling granddaughter. Uh, I maybe I would've have prevailed more often than I, than I do. It Would've helped you. I Have, I understand that, that's what I'm saying. I'm, I'm obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I would've figured that out a long time ago. She was wonderful, and I'm glad that she was speaking against the bill. The Home Builders Association also speaks against this bill as indicated by the previous witness that we see nothing more than turf creation and Turf protection certification was required years ago in the state of Utah. It was administered by doppel, but in some sweeping legislation that was sponsored by the now speaker of the house in 2017 and 18, uh, along with almost all other subcontractors, the specialty license requirements were, have effectively been eliminated. And this was one of them that was, since that time, we have not seen the problems that have been mentioned. We believe they are as indicated anecdotal, and there may be a, a, a place or two where, uh, maybe somebody made a mistake, but it's just really not rocket science. This is a, a, a graph of how it's supposed to be done. It's in the building code and it appendix af uh, it's, it's done. Uh, our survey of new builders finds that about more than half of them are already putting these systems in at new construction, because obviously it's a little cheaper to do it when you do it during the construction side rather than mitigation. Uh, but it's really not as rocket science as, as the Mr. Andre referred to you, drill a hole in the ground, put gravel in there if there's not already gravel in there, and you, and you ventilate the pipe to the top. He describes a, an active system that requires a fan, but it doesn't necessarily need a fan. It could be a passive system. Just have, uh, the drafting na naturally draft the air out of the home and, and into the atmosphere. So, uh, we, we oppose this bill. We don't see it as necessary. Uh, and it just, uh, uh, conflicts with what the, the speaker did about seven or eight years ago, and we, we hope you'll hold the bill. Thank you.

39. Chair Albrecht (presiding)32:42speaker not certain

    Thank you. Uh, I might have a question for you, Representative Owens. Yeah.

40. Rep. Doug Owens32:46

    Thank you, Mr. Bessinger. Thank Mr. Chair. Thank you. Uh, has, for your comments. So the turf creation is just because you builders can do it without the certification now, and and this would have That's correct. Required this correct. So that you're not seeing one particular company that would be eligible or something beyond that.

41. Taz Biesinger, Utah Home Builders Association33:05

    Do you, John, just needing the certification? Well, We, we believe that this radon mitigation folks want to require everybody to get certifications would require additional regulation in the industry. And we just really don't see a need for that. Uh, the, the problems being mitigated being resolved without this certification. We haven't found any, any issue since the elimination of the certification. And what year was that eliminated? 17 and 18. I, I don't remem I mean, there was a series of bills that went through that. The, the now speaker. I think he was probably like the majority whip at the time, maybe, maybe the majority leader. He, he wanted to eliminate a lot of the requirements to get into the business. At the time we were very, very short on, on manpower in the industry. Manpower meaning men and women, but just labor force and, and, and, and skilled people in the industry. And so he eliminated a lot of those requirements. That was his initiative. That was not ours. Uh, uh, and at, at this point, again, seven or eight years, uh, later, we, we haven't seen any negative, uh, uh, ramifications from it.

42. Rep. Doug Owens34:12

    And one little one other follow up. If we were to have a certification requirement, do you think that construction trades licensing, uh, board, or let's see, who is it? Who, who gets the authority? Doppel Dopel. Is that the right entity, or would you want Environment?

43. Taz Biesinger, Utah Home Builders Association34:28

    I would believe that's the right entity. They're, they're, that's the entity that licenses all other construction contractors.

44. Rep. Doug Owens34:35speaker not certain

    Okay. Thank you. Thank you, representative.

45. Chair Albrecht (presiding)34:37

    Thanks for your testimony. Thank you. Anyone else in the room? Seeing none. We're gonna go online to Mr. Nick Torres there. Go ahead, Mr. Torres. Nate State your name and who you're with.

46. Nick Torres, American Lung Association34:52

    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Um, I am Nick Torres here representing the American Lung Association. Um, we're here, um, uh, with kind of some similar feedback as, as previous speakers. Um, ultimately we support, um, the idea behind the bill. We do support certification. Um, however, I think there's a lot of work, uh, yet to be done on the bill. Um, uh, for many of the reasons that you, you've heard, um, we would, uh, strongly encourage, um, adherence to national standards be included as, um, as a requirement. Um, you know, there, I guess there's maybe a difference of opinion on whether that comes out during rulemaking. We would like to see some more, um, specificity in, in statute, um, certainly, uh, lining up with the American National Standards Institute on CS industry standards. Um, uh, for example, environment, uh, indoor Environments Association, uh, just nationally recognized trade group standards for certification. I think, um, it would be our number one, um, um, request for inclusion, um, in the bill just to, uh, inspire confidence in consumers, um, as they're having these systems installed. Um, it's incredibly important. Um, we'd also strongly recommend that the certification licensure requirement extends not only to, uh, mitigation installation, but also testing and measurement. Um, so the intent here is not to infringe on a homeowner's right to do a DIY test, for example, but rather ensuring that if they're paying someone to come in and, and do measurement that, uh, that the homeowner then would have the confidence that the measurements are done correctly and the results are accurate. Um, a third area I think needs some, some work, um, is the exemption. Um, as you heard, the bill does exempt, um, folks who are working under supervision by someone who's, who's certified. Um, I just feel like this, this exemption is potentially, um, uh, an exploitable loophole here. Um, we'd like to see some guardrails put up if not having that exemption removed entirely. Um, and, and finally, um, as you've heard, also alluded, um, finding a role for DEQ. Uh, I'd say the radon program, uh, DEQ has a wealth of expertise. Uh, and it, I think it makes a lot of sense to find a role for them in this process. Incorporate them into the certification, or if not in some sort of oversight as you heard. Also. Um, they do receive, uh, those complaints when a system is not installed correctly. When a homeowner has questions about, um, the, um, the maybe marketing, uh, tactics, um, aggressive tactics. Um, a lot of those complaints do get filtered through the radon program. And so having them involved in some way makes a lot of sense, um, for, for the, the certification as well. So, uh, for those reasons, I think there's a lot of work to be done yet on the bill. Uh, as I mentioned, we are very supportive being that radon is the number one cause of lung cancer, um, among non-smokers. Um, this is something that we find, uh, very important and encourage that the sponsor has raised up this issue. Um, unfortunately, I think still needs a lot of work and, and stakeholdering and would encourage, um, the bill to not move forward so that we can spend a little more time, um, working that out. Appreciate your time. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

47. Chair Albrecht (presiding)38:25

    Thank you. Thanks for getting online, Mr. Torres. Uh, will nobody else, no others online. Uh, we'll close public comment and bring it back to the committee. Representative Koford.

48. Rep. Jordan D. Teuscher38:40

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I'd like to make a motion that we hold the bill

49. Chair Albrecht (presiding)38:44

    That motion's in order. Would you like to speak to it?

50. Rep. Jill Koford38:48

    Yes. Um, I, I'm inclined to think that in seven or eight years that we haven't regulated this, that perhaps this is a solution looking for a problem. And I just think we need to spend a little more time on it.

51. Chair Albrecht (presiding)39:02

    Thank you. Discussion to the motion? Seeing none, I'll bring it back to the sponsor.

52. Rep. David Shallenberger39:10

    Um, uh, appreciate Representative Koford, uh, motion. We've heard a lot of testimony today. Both, I mean, all of it coming from within the industry and everyone wanting to work towards a solution. Um, so, uh, I don't know if, uh, Jake agrees, but I think, uh, it warrants further discussion and bringing, making sure everybody's there on the table and what those standards would look like and how it would be implemented. So If I may, sure.

53. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org39:38

    With your permission and answer, um, we did work with, uh, the stakeholders and they did send in, uh, an email to me suggesting the, the recommendations that they made, not knowing that that was exactly what was discussed in the rulemaking authority with Doppel, because Doppel does not

54. Chair Albrecht (presiding)39:56

    Have, it's not your bill, Mr. Andre.

55. Jacob Anderegg, Utahradon.org39:59

    Okay. I'm, I'm sorry. I'm, I'm not trying to push, I'm just trying to answer some of the questions that were put Out there. Okay.

56. Chair Albrecht (presiding)40:05

    We have a motion on the floor. Is there further discussion? Seeing none, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll bring it back to the maker. I'll Waive Has been waived. I'll place the motion, uh, that we hold HB 5 63 Raydon amendments by Representative Shallenberger. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Representative Kohler or say representative? I vote No. Also, Owens is a no. And I'm an aye representative. Representative Kohler online is an aye. Passes eight to 1, 2, 2, 2. Excuse me. Thank you. Thank you everybody. We'll, now move to, uh, HCR five house concurrent resolution on state management of federal public lands. Representative Eliason, are you in the room? I saw him out there in the hall. Any Senator Vickers in the room? Hang on folks. We'll take a minute of rest. Motion to saunter. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Or sauntering? Motion to cease Sory. All in favor say aye. Okay. Any opposed? Good. Welcome, Senator Sandall, glad to have you here. We are going to hear Senate Bill 2 51,