S.B. 28 County Classification Modifications: transcript

Senate Government Operations and Political Subdivisions Committee, Jan 23, 2026

1. Committee chair (presiding)1:14:22

   Thank you, Mr. Chair. We're gonna call, um, Senate Bill 28 County classification modifications. Senator Winterton, when you're ready.

2. Sen. Ronald M. Winterton1:14:45

   Thank you. Uh, this was a committee bill that came out of the interim political subdivisions. It was a committee bill and, uh, in the Senate we combined both government ops and political subdivisions together. And so the attempt on this is that for years, we've always just kept raising the numbers for classifications of a county, or we make exemptions for 'em. Uh, this bill is an attempt to kind of stop that. And, and we've thought outside of the box, and it's an attempt that we're looking not only at population, but on the revenue side of each county. And it proposes that we will do this every five years. So we'll do it after the census and use their datas. And if we don't, then we come back and we'll use the state Population Commission's data. And what it does is the counties don't need to work, worry about this because it puts, puts it on the state tax commission and the Lieutenant Governor's backs as to where these are. And it's proposed that when the population is, uh, two, 200% greater than the average population of the county's, uh, current classification. And you have to understand that each county has a classification. So there might be four that are in the third class. There might be, you know, five that's in the fourth class, but we're taking the average of that classification. So they have to meet that threshold of 200%. And then we also look at the revenue in that classification. Once they hit the hit those benchmarks, the Lieutenant Governor's office will be notified to let the county know that you're gonna be bumped up to the next classification or down to the next one. That will solve the carve outs that we keep doing to make somebody applicable for incentives that we give from Goo and several others. You know, we have rural incentives and Utah County isn't really rural, but they have a lot of aspects or entities in the county that are rural in aspects. And so we carve them out and say this, but this will stop all of the carve outs that we're doing so that they know ahead of time that they will be changing classification. It's not wondering, well, please leave us there. They have five years that they will be able to, to look at this and breathe the other four years in between. So that's the end of my presentation. I'm hoping to Questions. Thank you.

3. Committee chair (presiding)1:17:27

   Uh, looking for questions, clarifying questions from the committee.

4. Unknown speaker1:17:33speaker not certain

   I, uh, I have a, a couple. Okay. Um, because we have tied, and I've done it so many, not just economic development stuff, but so much else. How does this ripple through the code every time a county changes classification?

5. Sen. Ronald M. Winterton1:17:52

   Well, you know, back in, uh, I think it was 2017, they were commissioning a study to see how, how does this affect them on, on the codes It never got done. And so once we get this, I think that we can ask for that study to now tell us, but it's not going to, we don't know. That's the, the answer. We don't know.

6. Unknown speaker1:18:17speaker not certain

   Do we, do we need to find that out before we tell 'em we're gonna change their classification? My phone, that's my biggest question,

7. Unknown speaker1:18:23speaker not certain

   Friend there. Somebody here, I'm looking for uac. She was in here earlier.

8. Sen. Ronald M. Winterton1:18:29

   But, uh, UACs members, they're the ones that help mod or come up with what this would do. But that's a question we did not answer.

9. Unknown speaker1:18:38speaker not certain

   Okay. So, Okay. That, that was my main question. Okay. Okay. So thank you and thank you for the honest answer.

10. Committee chair (presiding)1:18:45

    Um, we're gonna look to, uh, the audience or online for, uh, we're gonna turn it over to public comment. Do we have anybody, do we have anybody online? Oh, yes, we have one. Come on up please. Sorry. Come. Wow, you bow missed your chance. Yeah, go, go ahead.

11. Marilyn Momeny, resident1:19:05

    State your name. You can fill out, you can fill out in a minute. I haven't read through this bill. I'm just sitting here in the audience. I'm here for another one. But this sounds a little to me, like the, um, Pelosi comment. We need to pass the bill in order to figure out what's in it. I I'm wondering if perhaps a little more research could be done before we have unintended consequences, particularly to some of the small rural counties who struggle with different things coming down from the state. Just my passing comment on listening to everything, but I'm sure Senator Winterton Hass done a great job on everything.

12. Committee chair (presiding)1:19:44

    Thank you. Um, I'm gonna close public comment. We're gonna bring it back to the committee for any, any further discussion or action.

13. Unknown speaker1:19:57speaker not certain

    I could make a motion. Yes, you could. And, and taking what you said you'd like to have an answer to that.

14. Sen. Ronald M. Winterton1:20:03

    And yet, I'm thinking in the back of my mind, in my 18 years, can I cannot think of one change in classifications of counties bumping them from one or the other. We haven't done it. We have not, we keep raising the level on the bar to the point where your question is very valid. What is the domino effect when we start doing that? Now we're probably talking about maybe three, four counties that this could affect in the next 10 years. But when you look at the, the now, the threshold for to go to first class county, even though we're growing very fast in two counties, they're not gonna be there. But they have to be aware that once we hit this threshold, now they've gotta start planning on not coming to the state for incentives. Because the one thing is, uh, this formula, the revenue side of it will tell us they can afford their own incentives. We don't need to keep helping them out. But for the rural parts of the state, it says a, a huge thing that we still need to help them. So that, that's what I think about why the need. We just, we don't push anybody into another classification because we just move the numbers. Again. We're, we're trying to stop that so that your question can be answered. They know what the councils are nces are gonna be once they go up. So going forward, they'd plan on that.

15. Sen. Ronald M. Winterton1:21:28

    So, um, with that I would make a motion that we favor favorably recommend, um, Senate Bill 28 to the senate floor That that motion is, uh, is appropriate.

16. Committee chair (presiding)1:21:44

    Uh, discussion to the motion ERs. Oh, Senator Vickers.

17. Sen. Evan J. Vickers1:21:48

    Thank you. Staff just told me Go, go ahead. Thank you, Mr I was just gonna, and I guess this be part of the discussion, I did wanna clarify that Ting Brooks ran a bill that actually changed Washington, ended up changing Washington County from a class two to press three. So there has been at least one change recently. So just wanted to give that information out.

18. Unknown speaker1:22:10speaker not certain

    Thank you, Senator. Right. That was last year because they needed an incentive and they wouldn't have qualified for it.

19. Unknown speaker1:22:18speaker not certain

    Um, so a prerogative of the chair. I am, uh, 'cause we're open to discussion around the motion. Um, I am going to, I'm, I'm gonna be a no at this point, basically because, um, not around the economic part of the incentives of the classifications, but I do believe that there are a number of other things that we have tied to county classifications that are not part of economic development or tax incentives. I'd like to see us discover that. Okay. Before we moved. So, um, do you, do you want to conti? I'm gonna, I'm gonna look to you with that, I'm gonna look to you.

20. Sen. Scott D. Sandall1:22:56

    How about if I make the motion that we hold the bill in The committee give motion so we have a motion Okay. To hold the motion. Okay. I will take that as a substitute motion to hold the bill. Do we have discussion around the substitute motion? He made the original motion. I will make the substitute motion. Thank you. You're correct. Or he just, we can't do that rescinds his, but I'll make the substitute motion to hold the bill.

21. Committee chair (presiding)1:23:21

    I'm fine with that. Okay. I'm gonna place that motion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any, any opposed? I'll rule that motion passes. We will hold the bill and let's look to see if we can get that answer.

22. Unknown speaker1:23:35speaker not certain

    I will. Yeah. We have plenty of time. Thank You. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks.

23. Unknown speaker1:23:56speaker not certain

    Senator Baldry, is she in here? Um, I think she's next door. Can you get Johnson over here? Yes, I'm here. Oh,