S.B. 52 Substitute Teaching Requirements Amendments: transcript

Thank you Mr. Chair. Our first of many visits this year. It's good to be before such good friends. Um, Senate Bill 52 is really about, uh, letting the, letting a school principal use his or her judgment about who fits best inside of a classroom. So, current law requires that a long-term substitute be a licensed teacher if one applies. Um, and that's even if, um, maybe the other options for that position are a teacher who retired two years ago from the same school and whose license has expired, but the principal recruited and is willing to come back. Or, uh, the paraprofessional who's pursuing a degree and is so, is really familiar with the school's culture and with the kids already in the classroom. But instead, the statute requires that the principal hire, um, a licensed educator, even if that licensed educator applied for a job and was previously rejected at that, at that school for valid reasons. So, again, Senate Bill 52 is just about, uh, respecting the principal's judgment. And so what we do is just delete three lines from code that says that the teacher's position has to be filled by a license, by a licensed teacher if one is available. And instead allow school principals to make that decision based on who they think would fit best inside the classroom. I believe this, uh, this bill is, uh, is supported by all the public education stakeholders. Does that conclude your presentation? Yes. Very nice.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I had brought this question up, uh, um, to the good senator on this, uh, previously, but I don't know if we had a chance to really finish the discussion. I'm just curious about the, um, issue of, uh, PAC licensed educator versus unlicensed. Um, I understand there may be some, uh, consideration of these individuals would not fall under the, the same scrutiny as a licensed educator when it comes to, um, the state board's sort of requirements. Is, is there anything you can tell me about that? Is this a change or is this already the way it is?

No, this, uh, Mr. Chair, this does not represent a change to that. We, we don't touch PAC at all. However, PAC is about licensure. Right. And, and they are empowered to revoke licensure or to suspend licensure for misbehavior. So, um, the same rule would apply whether, um, so no, it would make no impact on the changes to, uh, on what PEC could or could not do. But it does allow a long-term sub to be to, I should, let me phrase it this way. It doesn't require the license teacher to get in front, right? So if we're just empowering principals to make a decision, and I think PAC is an ancillary issue.

Okay. Just, um, and I know we have a long agenda, but I just wanna make sure I understand. Oh, go ahead. Is that all right? Um, so currently a substitute. If they are, um, if there is some sort of concern or violation of, let's say, code of conduct or something along those lines where there might be a complaint sent to PAC if they were a licensed educator, how would it work under the substitute category? Either here, or maybe you know, how it works currently

or how this would maybe be affected by that? Yeah, Again, Mr. Chair, this does not change anything about pac. PAC would still have the ability to call in any licensed educator to, uh, to deal with anything that had to do with their licensure. And they would not be able to do that with anybody who wasn't licensed. 'cause there's no license to revoke. So this would, this would potentially put people that aren't subject to UPAC in front of students. People Who aren't subject to UPAC are constantly in front of students. Sure. This would remove the automatic legal preference that a principal had to give

to an educator with a license. Got It. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I move that we pass out favorably SB 52. Uh, we have a motion to recommend favorably, uh, SB 52 substitute teaching requirements amendments.

I'll waive. Alright, back to the, uh, maker

Thank you. I, Mr. Chair, I'm so pleased to follow that last presentation because, uh, you know, in his sum, Senator Musselman talked about how this is how good legislation happens. Somebody calls their, uh, representative or senator with a question. It's like, look, this is something that happened to me and it's because the law is written this way. Uh, and isn't that something that we can fix? So, um, that was the result here. Um, I've got some additional story that I'll tell after I explain the bill. So I got a call from a school employee who had applied for a position as a substitute teacher. You know, she'd been substituting in that class already. Um, when the classroom teacher, you know, uh, what what was originally thought to be a short, short-term absent was gonna be a long-term absence. And so they needed a, a more, uh, you know, a long-term sub, uh, in inside the classroom. Uh, so, you know, she applied and interviewed for that job. And her, she works at the school anyway. So then the principal comes to her and says, you are the best, the best candidate. Like, I wish I could hire you. The law tells me I can, if it's a long-term sub, and uh, uh, a licensed educator rep applies, I have to hire that licensed educator. So even though I want to hire you, you are the best person for this job. The law forbids me from hiring you. And so that's when she called me. So I ran this by the local people at my own school districts. I presented this before the State Superintendent's association. I don't wanna speak for them. Um, you know, uh, I imagine that they'll be considering this bill on Friday and, uh, we'll, we'll take a position. Um, but, uh, at that meeting, superintendents had a what, uh, I would classify as a positive response saying, yes, this provides flexibility for us. It's a good bill. And that really is the point, um, you know, in, uh, public education appropriations today. And, uh, Senator Mr. Chair, I'm not you sure you were in the room at that time, but I know that Senator Balderree was, and, and you know, this is when we were hearing from Morningside Elementary, and the principal isn't just, just bragging about the quality of the paraprofessionals that, that teach it at her school and the academic results that they're getting, and how these are the people who know the school's culture, who know what we're trying to do. And the law forbids that principle from hiring one of those paraprofessionals as a long-term substitute, even though that is the person who knows the culture has already worked with and knows the kids. Um, and instead must hire a, uh, a licensed educator who is, does not currently have a job, right. Who may have been passed over, uh, for a job at that very school. Um, so that, that's the point of this bill to provide, uh, principles with the flexibility they need to hire and place in long-term substitute positions, the person that they think, uh, would be the best fit for that job and achieve the best results for students.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, could the LEA give that substitute an la specific LEA specific license and therefore become a licensed teacher?

Mr. Chair, the answer to that question is in if that person met those qualifications, yes, but not tomorrow.

Okay. So, um, in theory, I love this. I love that scenario you just described. Um, I work at schools like that. Uh, I work at East Side Schools where lots of parents are leaving six figure jobs to stay with their kids and be in their schools and, um, even, you know, five figure jobs. But I also work in schools where we have kids that are not being, um, met with the same robust paraeducators, and they also are not met with the same types of people in their classrooms. And when I see legislation like this, it helps people that have a lot, but sometimes hurts people that don't have a lot. So I, I do appreciate the flexibility it provides, but when I think about some of the classes like Granger Elementary School, um, they had a turnstile of substitutes coming in, going and they had parents that were trying to help out and they had, you know, substitutes that were there and they struggled to get a licensed teacher. And if you said, we don't, we no longer need to work on getting a licensed teacher, then that would put those kids in a precarious situation. So after 25 years of being in schools and seeing non-licensed teachers in classrooms trying to fill the gaps, I can say that it works some of the time, but most of the time it doesn't work. So, um, I like parts of this bill, but I find it concerning that we might be opening the door for kids that really need a licensed teacher not to have a licensed teacher. So, uh, the guardrails are here to protect our kids so that they have a licensed teacher and they'll have someone qualified to do the job. And now the guardrails are completely off. So, um, struggling with this bill, but I'm gonna have to say no. Thank you.

Uh, I would just like to say as I've worked as a teacher in public and private schools, and I would ask, I guess the committee members to consider whether they've seen, uh, someone who is not a good teacher who was licensed, because it happens in both places with or without the license. And, uh, some of the best teachers I worked with were not licensed. So I will just leave that comment out there. 'cause I think that's kind of a universal experience that we've seen. It, it, it seems to me, just to comment, I, it, it seems to me that this is the ultimate form of local control, right. And it, it really is up to, I guess, the principal to make that determination. So if we have principals that are putting people in those positions that probably shouldn't be in those positions, I would think that would we, we would wanna look at that. Right? And that would be probably the school district that would be responsible for that. Right. Ultimately, that's a local control issue, I think.

No. I'll like, I'll, I'll have a, some, Okay. May I have a follow up? Sure.

I, I just realize that my school districts would like this. So I'll be voting yes, but I just wanna caution people that thi this could open the door for kids to not have a licensed teacher. And that's my concern. And, uh, to your point, there are licensed teachers that maybe aren't as dynamic as licensed teachers, but we try to put guardrails around these events. And I think this is a guardrail that when I look out in the audience, I see people that, um, have their own cars and they drove here. I don't see people that struggle with buses and food stamps and, you know, I, I don't know, I'm making a generalization here, but, um, this is the people that we're trying to protect. And so, um, they, they can't get here and they can't advocate for themselves. And I've actually worked in those schools and that's my caution, that this might negatively impact the people that actually need the best teachers in their classrooms. So I'll be voting yes because my schools want it and I should vote with what my schools want. Thank you very much. Okay.

Hi, I am Carolyn Sch speaking for myself today. But having worked in, um, Utah schools for about 23 years, I'm really excited to see this kind of innovation and thank senator for thinking of this. The guardrail, in my opinion, is the, um, responsible person is who's the school head. The school head at each school is responsible to make sure that there are capable, amazing, safe people with all of our students. And when we have, sometimes the rules encourage leaders to feel like their hands are tied. When they can't keep that person in the room that they want because of the rules, then they wash their hands and go, I can't do anything about it. And I hate it when school leaders feel helpless. So this helps empower them so they don't ever feel helpless. It also helps them so that they never feel like they're not accountable, that they better make sure the right person's in that room. And I work with Title one kids, um, about 20 to 500 of our kids are in Title one schools. And it's especially important for them that the head of school can be held accountable to have the best people in those classrooms. And I think this helps with that immensely. So, thank you Senator.

Thank you. Uh, good afternoon. Michael Anderson. I'm the Associate superintendent for Jordan School District. And, uh, we just appreciate the flexibility that this bill provides for our principals. As has already been stated, this is a great example of local control. Even though we as a district will continue to prioritize the licensed uh, subs, it still gives us the flexibility when needed to, to pivot, uh, as we need to. And I also appreciate that it maintains, uh, safety and because background checks are still required. But ultimately this bill just, um, allows our school leaders, um, to focus on what they need to, allows 'em the flexibility and the trust that we, that we give them. So thank you.

Um, my name is Ella Franson. I am a current student at West High. I've had long-term subs and I am begging you to please vote no on this bill. While I understand all of the concerns about principles not being allowed to put someone in the position, who could most aptly do it say that's a paraprofessional? I think a better bill would then be to say they have to be licensed or have already worked in the position for the entirety of the 20 days or have already worked at the school. But I've seen long-term subs that are unlicensed and I've seen or not that are unlicensed. I've seen subs that are unlicensed, not long-term ones, but knowing how important a long-term sub is, especially when you're in the higher echelons of classes, when you're in AP and IB classes, when the school comes down to it and they are only, they can't find a sub if they're able to just put someone in random who has no education experience, it's just gonna be detrimental to students. And I really think that the requiring of having a license will help schools know and like, I dunno the state to prioritize that. I just, I really do not see having unlicensed educators 20 days of school that's over a month, having over a month with a teacher who didn't pass the license or exams or go to school for teaching. It's so detrimental. And I would fully support the bill if it allowed for people who are unlicensed but have been at the school for years. That makes a ton of sense. And I get that there are definitely Paradise educators at my school who could do that. But if we allow for some principals who are stretched so thin to just pick someone kind of random or someone who doesn't have the qualifications, I really think we need to have our principals and our school districts and the state strive to get more licensed educators. I'm aware there's a sub shortage in the seventh grade I did an oratory exam for my debate about the sub shortage is in Utah and specifically the reasons for it and why we have it. And I think if anything, if we don't pass this bill and we, we can push to have more licensed educators in Utah, there's an educator shortage in Utah. There's a sub shortage in Utah. And the answer is to not allow the, the answer is not to just allow people that are unlicensed. I really strongly do not support this bill. And I really think it will be detrimental to students. I think having a long-term sub to begin with is hard. And having someone who doesn't have the license to teach makes it so, so much worse. And at the high school level, it's detrimental 'cause you're not learning. And at the elementary school level it's devastating because child like early childhood intervention and education is so important. And I really think this bill could do a lot of damage. Like the, while the principals, again, they're not intending to do damage by picking someone that doesn't have a license, but they can. And when principals and school districts are already stretched so incredibly thin, they're not gonna be able to like, they might just be like, oh, it's fine. Like, I know I shouldn't, but it's fine. But we don't even wanna give them the option 'cause we know they're stretching. We know they will. So please vote now. Thank you.

Hello, I'm Jennifer Partridge and I'm the Vice president of the Utah School Boards Association. And today I'm speaking on behalf of the association, um, as the joint legislative committee, which also includes our, uh, superintendent's association and our business administrators. Uh, we voted in favor of this bill. We support this bill. Um, and we appreciate the flexibility allows for situations like Senator Fillmore, um, presented earlier. Um, we also discussed in, in our meeting that as boards and as districts we set policy. And so every LEA can have the opportunity to discuss this and decide what parameters they would like to put in place to do our best, to have qualified, highly qualified individuals in our classrooms, just like has been expressed by other people today. We all want the best for our students. We want them to have the best opportunities for learning and for growth. Um, we appreciate the flexibility when we need it, but we are going to strive to have wonderful educators, um, to help our students, um, no matter what the situation is. So thank you.

Hi, um, my name is Kaylan Gren. I'm a teacher in Davis School District and I'm speaking in favor of this particularly because of how close to home it hits me this year. Um, I had a really traumatic and unexpected end to my pregnancy in November. Mm. And without the miracle that I already have a job share who was ready and willing to step in on the days I wasn't there, my school would've been left in a scramble to find someone who was not already in a classroom with two hours notice. We had two hours notice to when I would not be able to come back to school 'cause I was going to be living in a hospital for the foreseeable future. And when I had to have somebody in my classroom ready to teach my class. And it's not that I would ever say that a teacher, and I guess I can't speak for every district I know in my district in Davis, it is the teacher's responsibility to find my long-term sub. And I'm a hundred percent on board for that. Nobody should take care of my kids unless I know who they are and I know their qualifications, they're my priority. So putting in effect somebody doesn't have to have an active teaching license allows me to find somebody who's retired but not kept their license up. It allows me for a lot of flexibility that I don't have currently. And we could have picked up teachers who worked here last year, but retired, but their license lapsed. It allows us a lot of flexibility for situations when we don't have control over what's happening and we need somebody to be here with our kids. Thank you. Okay.

Mr. Chair, I make a motion to favorably recommend Senate Bill 52.

So, um, I want you to picture a situation in a school where, you know, uh, a teacher announces, I, you know, I'm, uh, had an unfortunate circumstance like Ms. Grin had, or even if it's planned, you know, I'm gonna have a baby, I'm gonna need six to eight weeks off or something like that, right? So, you know, these circumstances happen and nobody ever likes them when they happen, right? I've been a principal when this has happened. Um, so what is a principle going to do in that circumstance? He's gonna post a job, talk to a lot of people, probably look around his school. Do I have any, anybody currently on staff that would be great at this job? Maybe he'll go talk. I think you would be great. Would, if you're interested, would you please apply? Uh, like Ms. Gren suggested, maybe he goes, talks to one of his neighbors who he knows, you know, just retired, uh, two or three years ago. Hey, we need somebody for, uh, you know, a a few months. You think you'd be willing to come and set this in? That's what the principal's gonna do. Uh, and he'll accept applications from others, go through a set of interviews, ask questions, work as hard as he or she can to determine who's gonna be the right fit. What is the legislature gonna do in that circumstance? Well, we're gonna do nothing, nothing. If it happens during the session, we'll be up here debating all kinds of bills. We'll, uh, if it's not up here, we'll be, you know, working in our real jobs or doing podcasts, we will be totally ignorant about what is going on inside that school and who the applicants are. And yet, current law says, principle, you cannot hire who you think would be best at this job. You have to hire who we think would be best at this job. And that just seems outrageous to me. That is not our role. We should empower principals to be able to make this decision and empower principals to choose the person that they think would be best, who would best serve their students.

Mr. President, I make a motion to encircle Senate Bill 52.

Thank you, Mr. President. Over, uh, over the summer, I received an email from a constituent of mine, uh, who had worked at a, as a paraprofessional in a local school for, uh, quite some time. And one of the teachers, uh, at that school was, um, going on long-term leave, uh, just long-term medical leave. She'd be out for several, several weeks or several months. They needed a long-term substitute. Her principal came to her and asked her to apply. She did. At the end of that process, the principal said, you are the best candidate. I would like to hire you. But the law forbids me from doing so because a licensed educator has applied for this position. And in fact, Mr. President, um, 53 E 6 9 0 1 currently says that a teacher's position may not be filled by a non-licensed substitute teacher, uh, unless a non-licensed, uh, unless a licensed educator is not available. And I think that's putting too, uh, big of handcuffs on our school principals. You know, if you think about what this process is like, it's never, uh, a fun thing as a principal, and I've dealt with this in my education career. When somebody has a medical issue, they need emergency surgery or, um, uh, you know, a a pregnancy goes awry and, uh, you know, someone is required to be on bedrest. You know, you're often scrambling to find someone. And, and often what you'll find is that there's a person at the school who knows the kids, who knows the culture, who knows the class, um, knows the system who, uh, is perfectly capable of filling in, uh, for that period of time, uh, that, that a principal would want to hire. But our law is currently forbidding that. And so this just returns that power to the school principal to be able to hire the person that he or she thinks is the best qualified for the job.

Here, I'll move that Senate Bill 52, be read a third time.

Thank you, Mr. President. Um, I'd like to explain my vote. I voted for this in committee hearing because, um, my fellow teacher constituents, the, I'm sorry, the big groups that Vote for Education said that they supported this bill. But there was a young lady in the committee that was very compelling, and she was saying that as a high school student, she has received lots of really bad, um, people who are just filling in. And she says, as the classes got harder, it was harder and harder to find people to fit that role. And I, I understand the point of this bill. I really do. And I've seen it work in some schools, but I've also seen it not work in a lot of schools. And when I think about a substitute and who I would want watching my child and working with my child and helping my student with their curriculum, I think a licensed teacher is the best way to go. This is very definitive. You, you, you no longer have any guardrails. You can just pick anyone you want. And I know that we have principals that are doing their very best to try to find the very best people to work in those schools, but it's not happening. And our principals are dealing with so many things all day long that they find the path of least resistance, or they, they just try to, to do it because they just need to take something off their plate. And, you know, hard things are what schools are all about. And so, I, I don't believe this is responsible for our schools to find somebody that is not qualified, not licensed to watch a class. And I, I I, if there was more leeway here that said there was some more guardrails around it that said you would actually take these kind of steps, or you do something different to make sure that you did your very best to find a licensed teacher, I would support this. But if you think of your rural communities and you think of your low income students, these are the ones that are gonna be impacted the most because they won't be working harder to find that licensed teacher. They won't be going the extra mile to find the person that's best qualified to teach this curriculum. So I was a yes in committee because my, um, education friends asked me to, but I said, I listen to the students that actually are impacted by this the most. They are the ones that do not want this. So I'm a no.

not even a preference, Mr. President, but a requirement that the, that the, the principal set aside his or her judgment and instead replace it with, uh, a requirement that they choose a less desired, uh, person for that position. Just because that person holds a teaching license and not in every case does that make the best candidate this recognizes that and returns that power to the principles. It does not change the minimum standards for substitutes which remain the same. The only change is that we would stop forcing principles to choose a substitute that they do not want.

Thank you, Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield? Senator Fillmore, will you yield?

Yes, go ahead, Senator Kwan.

Thank you. I'm wondering about those, uh, minimum standards. Um, I'm wondering if the sponsor is able to let us know some of those, uh, what those are.

Uh, Mr. President, this bill is not changing that section of code, and so I don't have those references right in front of me, but because it doesn't change that section of code, it doesn't change any of what those minimum standards are.

Thank you Mr. President. Follow up question. Please. Go ahead. Um, Mr. President, I'm wondering, um, I, I think I heard the sponsor talk about the need, uh, uh, for substitute teachers and how this will, um, increase the pool by which our, uh, principals, uh, can select substitute teachers. And I wonder if the, uh, sponsor could expand on that again.

Senator Fillmore. Yeah, Mr. President. I appreciate that. And I'm gonna answer that question by relating a hypothetical that is not really that hypothetical. So a principal gets news that one of his teachers, uh, has to go in for emergency surgery and will be out for three months. Uh, it's near the end of the school year. So pickings are slim. Um, you know, uh, the best licensed teachers in the state have already been hired. Uh, here, uh, you know, that school has hired some of them, but they also turned down some teachers, you know what I mean? Like, people applied. It's like you're not gonna be the right fit for the school culture that we're trying to create. So, you know, we give principals very broad discretion, uh, in in whom they choose to, to fill their classrooms. Uh, and so when this happens, I would, uh, a school principal would probably go to a paraprofessional who's been helping in that class. Um, and, you know, this person is, uh, in, in, in school, working to get his teaching license, doesn't have it yet, may also go and call, Hey, you know, we had a second grade teacher who retired two years ago and whose teaching licenses expired, but she might be a great fit in this class. I'm gonna give her a call and see if she might apply. They'll probably post the job on the district website and maybe they'll get, uh, you know, some, uh, people from different districts. And in addition to that, they get a licensed teacher who applies that this, that the principal previously specifically rejected. No, because you're not the right fit for the culture that we create in this school. Um, that is what a principal will do in a situation like this. And I contrast that with what the legislature will do in that situation. We will be totally unaware of it. We will not know that this has occurred. We will be in this room debating a bill like this. And yet here in the code, we are telling the school principal, you cannot hire who you think is the best person to teach that class for three months. You have to hire the person that we think is best for those three months, even though we've never met any of the candidates, we're just looking at the pieces of paper that they hold. And in that way, by, by freeing the teacher's hands, we open up a greater pool of people to be able to fill that classroom and trusting the principal to make that judgment.

Thank Thank you, Mr. President. Uh, yesterday I had a concern, not a concern, but maybe, um, a, a worry that maybe we were lowering the standards for our, uh, um, our substitute teachers. And that is a concern because we need to make sure that our, uh, kids are safe and, uh, certainly don't have any, uh, concerns about the, uh, uh, substitute teachers that the principals are going to choose. And I think that this probably is going to be a very good, uh, policy in order to allow more of our, uh, uh, teachers to find substitute teachers, teachers and principals to find substitute.

Um, you know, I admit I am not an expert on education issues and I haven't sat on public ed either appropriation or, or only I think on the education one one year. But so I, time I, I kind of become skeptical about any kind of a, a legislation that comes forward in public ed. So I reach out to the people I trust and as many of us do that live off the Wasatch Front, we have pretty good relationship with our rural superintendents and others, uh, educators, uh, principals, school board members. And on this particular bill, I, i, we, I reached out and, and they're pretty supportive. In fact, they support, especially the idea that the good senator just and the sponsor just to kind of the org, the, the scenario he went through where it gives back to local control, let people know on the, on the ground floor what's going on and who's best. So, you know, I just rise in support of the bill. Thanks.

Um, I just had a question about the language. Um, so it's currently, um, says that a substitute teacher means a licensed or all licensed individual who's employed by a school district. Um, and I was wondering if that is going to be a problem for like the contracted, uh, substitutes like Alpine and multiple school districts use ESS for their substitutes. So Senator, the language need to be amended or does that conflict at all?

Uh, Mr. President, uh, what she's referencing is current law that's not changed by this. Um, I had to imagine that if that did create a problem, we probably would've heard about it before now. And I have not heard that it's been creating a problem as I've been running this bill. Thank You. Does that answer your question?

Oh, yeah. I just wanted you to be aware in case it is a problem with the language. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that.

I we've had some good debate. I appreciate it. I'll waive further summation and move that Senate Bill 52 pass.

Senate Bill 52. Substitute teaching requirements amendments by Senator Fillmore. This bill was heard in education with the vote. Ten one four. The house sponsor is representative Tracy Millard.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. This bill makes, uh, one simple change that will give more flexibility to our principals when hiring a long-term substitute. Currently in code, a non-licensed, um, individual can fill a long-term sub position only if a licensed educator is not available. And this bill removes that provision. There are times when we have a qualified paraprofessional that's been in the class already knows the kids, knows what's being taught and could step into a substitute position for a couple of weeks. But the principal's not allowed to do that right now under the current code. 'cause they would have to take a licensed educator that's available, even if it's someone that may have been, uh, turned down for a job previously. So that is the bill and I ask for your support.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Um, the last couple, last few years I've been substitute teaching, uh, probably three or four dozen times just for, uh, just for the experience and just so I can make sure I'm still aware of what's going on in the classroom. And my license expired, what, some 30 years ago? Probably when I left, uh, when I left. Um, my, my career as a, as a high school counselor. But I appreciate, uh, what the good sponsor's doing here because, uh, even though I'm, I'm not licensed any longer, I think I'm pretty qualified to be a, to be a substitute teacher. And so I appreciate that she's, uh, making this possible for everyone. Thank you.

Thank you. Our, our education groups all support this bill. It just gives flexibility and local control to our principals to make the best decision for hiring a long-term sub.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Personal privilege.