Bills / S.B. 136 / Transcript

S.B. 136 Enforcement Activities Amendments: transcript

Everything said about this bill in committee and on the floor, speaker by speaker. Each time links to that moment in the official video. Back to the bill: summary and every vote →

Transcribed from the Legislature's recordings by software, with speakers identified from the video; it can contain errors. Check the recording before quoting anyone.

Senate Judiciary, Law Enforcement, and Criminal Justice Committee, Jan 22, 2026

Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:44:52
So, Senator Blouin, if you're ready, um, please come forward to present your bill. I just wanna tell you, you can take as much time as you want in your presentation, but, um, but we are working against the clock, so the longer your presentation, the less time we'll have for public comment.
Sen. Nate Blouin2:45:11
It won't be long. Do you want me to move out when I'm done?
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:45:16
Yeah, that would be great. You can go back to the DS too, if you'd like. Oh, can I ask the security once the, um, judge Connors and all of his friends has left? I, i, if you, if you'll go, do we have an overflow room? If you'll just go in there and ask, who is hoping to testify? And the people that raise their hand, will you bring them in and fill these chairs? Alright. Thank you. Senator Blouin,
Sen. Nate Blouin2:45:45
Is that on? Oh, it, it's on. Yes. Okay. Thank you, chair. Thank you for allowing this bill to, to get a hearing. I appreciate that. Um, s uh, oh, before I get started, I would like to move second substitute. Okay.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:45:56
Uh, s can you briefly tell us what the differences
Sen. Nate Blouin2:45:58
Are? Basically just added some references to, uh, SB 57 from two years ago.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:46:05
Okay. Oh, yeah. We need to have a committee member make that, that motion. Would you like to do that? Uh, Senator Escamilla? Yep.
Sen. Luz Escamilla2:46:12
Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. I make a motion that we sub substitute body and title sb sorry. 1 36. One 32nd, 1 36 with second substitute. 1 36. Alright,
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:46:25
We have a motion before us discussion to that motion. Seeing none. All in favor? Oh, uh, Senator Mikel. Yeah,
Sen. Michael K. McKell2:46:34
I, I just want an explanation of what it, what it actually does. I know you referenced to Bill, but what, what are we actually doing in the substitute?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:46:39
Yeah. So SB 57 was the state sovereignty amendments that we passed a couple of years ago that, uh, basically told the legislature that we could, uh, make a, a, a motion to, uh, move forward with a directive that, uh, counteracted the federal government. Uh, and so this bill kind of touches on some of those similar aspects and, uh, it, it seemed like a, a good idea to, to reference back to, uh, something that we'd already passed.
Sen. Michael K. McKell2:47:09speaker not certain
Just a quick question. How did you vote on that bill? I voted
Sen. Nate Blouin2:47:12
No on that bill.
Sen. Michael K. McKell2:47:13speaker not certain
Interesting. Okay. But thank you. Okay.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:47:16
All in favor of the motion to sub say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. No. Okay. Let's do a roll call vote. Um, who needs the microphone on? Okay. Senator Vickers. Brammer Comore. He's online. I don't know if he's, yeah. Okay. Um, ES escamia. Aye. Fillmore? No. Mikel, no. Musselman pitcher. Oh, she's absent. And, uh, oh, sorry. Senator Baldry and Chair Weiler. Aye. Two to five. Uh, the motion fails two to five. So we have the original bill before us.
Sen. Nate Blouin2:48:07
Fair enough. We'll work off of that. Uh, so SB 1 36 is a bill that reaffirms Utah's position as a, as a place that welcomes people who are seeking a better life. Uh, those might be people like me, uh, who came to Utah because of our outdoor access, uh, our education opportunities, our economy, uh, or, or they might be people escaping violence or, or persecution, uh, across the globe. Regardless, uh, I believe they are valuable members of our community. Um, they deserve to be able to worship, uh, to seek care and, and to exist in public without the fear of being treated in, in the very ways that they were trying to, uh, escape. In 2019, uh, Utah reaffirmed the Utah Compact on immigration. Uh, this bill aims to codify protections that uphold that compact, including leaving immigration enforcement to the federal government, uh, respecting the rule of law by requiring judicial warrants, empowering strong families and a free society, uh, that protects war shippers and, uh, an economy that promotes the dignity of work for all residents in our state. Uh, we believe in local control here in Utah and state sovereignty. I was hoping to move forward with, uh, references to SB 57. I don't think that changes the, uh, the, the content of the bill all that much. Um, but this bill creates guidelines for, uh, state employees and, and facilities, uh, and requests that federal agents operating in our communities follow them to, uh, avoid creating confrontations like the one that recently happened in Minneapolis that ended with the murder of Renee Goode. Uh, what we are seeing from ICE goes above and beyond the apprehension of dangerous criminals. And it, it should concern all of us that, uh, this weaponized agency with a budget that is larger, uh, than most of the world's militaries, has granted itself the authority to enter into our homes without a valid judicial warrant. Uh, so SB 1 36 creates common sense guidelines on the use of face coverings, uh, by law enforcement officers. It, it creates, uh, some exemptions as well. Um, and, and hopefully to avoid intimidating and escaping accountability, um, it creates guidelines to prevent the state from aiding in potentially unconstitutional actions. Uh, if there were ever a, a time to assert our authority as a state, uh, it feels to me like that time is now.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:50:38
Thank you. Does that conclude your presentation? It does. Alright. Thank you. Um, discussion to the bill. Is there any committee discussion to the bill? Senator Escamilla.
Sen. Luz Escamilla2:50:48
Um, thank you Mr. Chair. And, and thank you Senator. Um, I know this has been a critical issue discuss in our caucus. Just to make sure, if you don't mind just delineating in terms of your bill, the scope on where you're putting this safe, uh, places. Yes. So I think that's the core of your, the real core of the bill and reflects certainly the values of our state. So if you don't mind just in line in what lines you're making reference to those safe locations.
Sen. Nate Blouin2:51:18
Let's see. I actually don't have the original version of the bill in front of me, so I can, I can touch on what they are. Okay. Please just
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:51:25speaker not certain
Line numbers. Do you have an, do you want my intern to grab, uh, to get you an original version of the bill?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:51:28
Sure. Oh, we have one. Um, bo would you come forward? This is Bo everyone. He's from BYU and he's my intern. He drew the short straw this year. There you go. Okay. So sensitive location means a public library healthcare facility. Oh, sorry. And this is, uh, starting on line 1 77. Uh, a public library healthcare facility operated by a governmental entity courthouse, uh, location operated by a governmental entity that provides physical or mental health services, shelter care services, or legal care services, uh, does not include correctional or detention facilities operated by a governmental entity or a holding or detention facility in a courthouse operated by a governmental entity.
Sen. Luz Escamilla2:52:34
Thank you. And Mr. Chair just, um, is, to me, why this is so critical is not only is that piece, but also places of worship, which I know for this state, it holds pretty, um, close and dear to our hearts and the core values of the state of Utah. And that is people should be free to worship without having to be concerned about their safety. So, thank you, Mr. Chair.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:52:56
Thank you. We're gonna go next to Senator Brammer.
Sen. Brady Brammer2:53:00
Yeah. You've got a lot about, um, facial coverings and military gear, things like that. Um, would you be opposed to including the same provisions for any protesters?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:53:14
No, protesters are not agents of our government that, uh, have qualified immunity or things of that nature. So
Sen. Brady Brammer2:53:21
Your view is that protestors should be able to wear facial coverings, body armor, and everything that way. But an ICE agent should not
Sen. Nate Blouin2:53:29
This Mr. Chair, this does not prevent, uh, tactical use of those sorts of coverings of, of body armor. Um, it, it just, uh, makes certain regulations around it. But if there's a necessity for law enforcement to be wearing those sorts of things, then they still have that, uh, authority.
Sen. Brady Brammer2:53:49
And do you have an understanding as to why ICE is wearing facial coverings typically?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:53:53
Uh, frankly, I do not. Uh, to me it seems quite inappropriate.
Sen. Brady Brammer2:53:57
Have you heard about the doxing issues with ICE agents?
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:54:01
I mean, I, Um, I, I'm gonna just tell the audience that if there's any more outbursts, I will instruct the security to move you to the overflow room. We do not tolerate that. If you wanna make a public comment, you can do so, but this is not a circus gallery. Okay. I'm looking at you. Thank you.
Sen. Nate Blouin2:54:23
Yeah, I, I wouldn't condone doxing of ICE agents. I think we see folks filming to try and be able to hold, uh, government agents that are out there operating, um, accountable for the decisions they make. And, uh, if there's no way to, to be able to do that, that is, that's a great concern.
Sen. Brady Brammer2:54:41
How is that not doxing?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:54:44
Uh, I think doxing would refer to like public, uh, announcements. And again, I I will say I don't condone publicly announcing agents names, but I think to be able to communicate back to law enforcement, to send a video in to your local police force to, to the, to the federal agency, that that is totally appropriate.
Sen. Brady Brammer2:55:02
And I have one other question. Yeah, please. Um, uh, now civil rights movement involved, the federal government coming in and enforcing integration, um, would you also be opposed to coordinating with the federal government to enforce civil rights laws?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:55:22
So again, this, this bill doesn't prevent coordination. It creates specific guidelines. And, uh, I think under those circumstances, you would, you would probably not see that sort of conflict between, uh, what they were trying to enforce and what this is trying to prevent.
Sen. Brady Brammer2:55:37
Okay. And this only applies to ice. It doesn't apply to protestors outside of churches demanding that people not support ice.
Sen. Nate Blouin2:55:44
It only applies to ice, Not protestors, ice and yes, ice. And, and I think several other kind of federal law enforcement agencies are included in this bill. Okay.
Sen. Brady Brammer2:55:53
So, religious locations are protected from ice, but not from protestors, Uh, Under your bill,
Sen. Nate Blouin2:56:01
Uh, under this bill that I, I think that is true under larger protections of the law. I suspect there are other protections that churches would, uh, would, would have to protect against sort that sort of, um, attack or that sort of concern. You're, you're expressing. Okay.
Sen. Todd Weiler2:56:19
Thank you. Um, Senator Brammer, I, sorry. Senator Blouin. I am, it's my understanding as a lawyer, um, et cetera, that the supremacy clause in the United States Constitution, um, basically means that a federal law that's in conflict with a state law would be trumped by the federal law. Is your understanding of the s supreme supremacy clause any different than mine?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:56:43
Uh, it aligns with that, which is my, was my intention with including SB 57, which I saw in a similar way. But it is a law that we have here in Utah that seemed appropriate to tie to this.
Sen. Todd Weiler2:56:55
And I Juab, I'll just remind you, I, I raised supremacy clause issues with Senate, Senate 57 as well. But, but do you believe that there's any component of state law that allows us to dictate via state law, um, you know, policies or facial coverings or clothing or anything for federal agents?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:57:18
I think there are pieces of this that would likely get contested. We see bills passed frequently where that is the case. Uh, many of the provisions in this bill, uh, are actually not suggestions, but they are, uh, creating basically a withdrawal of the state from certain situations. It is not saying you can't do this, it is saying you need to present a valid judicial warrant, uh, if you are going to operate in certain spaces. It is saying the state is not the, the state or local law enforcement will not be engaged in certain operations in sensitive places as defined in the bill. Um, but it's, it's not generally saying you are not allowed to do this as the federal government, because we, I think, share that understanding.
Sen. Todd Weiler2:57:58
Thank you. And, um, I'll agree with you to the extent that I, I really don't want federal agents in my church or people being arrested for going to church. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave that aside for a moment. But let's talk about public libraries. They're open to the public, right? Who, who's gonna be standing at the door of a public library denying entrance to, or asking people if they happen to work for ice?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:58:19
So, so the way the bill is written here is it would not prevent, uh, access to public libraries. It would, it would prevent access to non-public places in public libraries.
Sen. Todd Weiler2:58:30
Like, like the manager's office or, yeah,
Sen. Nate Blouin2:58:33
Ma behind, behind the behind locked doors. Okay. Offices, those sorts of things.
Sen. Todd Weiler2:58:38
So the idea would be if there's an ice raid that the library employees could scuttle the, uh, the targets into their office and lock the door. That that's the idea behind the bill.
Sen. Nate Blouin2:58:49
I, I think that is, that is not the idea necessarily. That is a way that it could be used.
Sen. Todd Weiler2:58:53
Okay. And to follow up on Senator Brammer line of questioning, are you aware of protesters visiting the homes or targeting the families of ICE agents in the past year?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:59:03
It, it would not surprise me to hear that again. And
Sen. Todd Weiler2:59:05
You're okay with that? No. Would you want your wife targeted for your job here in the state Senate?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:59:10
My wife has had her car tires slash
Sen. Todd Weiler2:59:12
because of work I've done. But is That something that you think is okay?
Sen. Nate Blouin2:59:16
No, and I, I am not encouraging violence against. Okay. I, I'm trying to prevent situations where we see escalations that lead to that sort of violence.
Sen. Todd Weiler2:59:24
Thank you. And I'm sorry to hear about your wife's tires. I really sincerely am
Sen. Nate Blouin2:59:28
Actually during my campaign, the first time around, before I was even elected. Wow.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:59:32
Senator Baldry.
Sen. Heidi Balderree2:59:34
I just want to remind, um, those that may not be aware that local police officers don't need a warrant when they encounter someone breaking the law in a public space. And the same hold true, the same holds true for our ice officers. They have a, it's codified under federal law and they have a constitutional duty to perform.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)2:59:52
Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, Senator Escamilla? Yes.
Sen. Luz Escamilla2:59:56
I'm sorry. So, I, I think I'm, I'm concerned that we may be using terminology here interchangeably that is not, um, describing the correct situation. So one thing is for you, for a, any peace officer that's licensed in our state to perform a duty in a public space to keep safety or keep, you know, I mean peace, I guess, versus picking up someone or arresting someone without a warrant. So, slightly different. I think what we're seeing, and again, it seems like we have, we live in part worlds and people are seeing different things. But what I'm hearing from the sponsor, and I'm reading the bill, is that it is providing safe spaces within certain locations. He delineates what those locations are, and it includes religious, uh, you know, entities. So I, I'm not saying that this is gonna stop, uh, our troopers if they have to keep the peace from exercising their duties versus arresting someone with a warrant and picking them up and putting them inside a ban. So, just, I wanna make sure we're clear that there is a definition here of what those actions look like versus just like, oh, we don't want our good highway patrol officers are keeping us safe here doing their job. 'cause that is slightly different from the description of an ice agent without a warrant picking up someone in the middle of the street or in a church, just, or a child, you know, coming outta somewhere. So, I, I think he's being very direct on what those areas are. Uh, and we can specific, and I, I'm, he's not putting the entire state. I wish it would be everywhere that we will have a warrant before arresting people and picking them up. But he's saying, look, in these areas that we hold dearly, um, as safe and sacred, we will follow this process. Now, we may all disagree on that, and that's okay, but I wanna make sure we're not saying our peace officers cannot exercise their duty to keep us safe because of this piece of legislation. 'cause that's not the case. Unless, unless to the sponsor, unless there's something else in the bill that you have not covered. Thank you, Mr. Chair,
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:02:12
Would you like to respond?
Sen. Nate Blouin3:02:14
No, I think she made a couple great points there.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:02:16
Thank you. I don't disagree. Senator Mikel.
Sen. Michael K. McKell3:02:19
Thank, thank you, chair. W I'm just gonna comment. Um, I, I'm struggling with this bill. Ultimately, I'm not gonna support it, but I, and I know we're not to the voting phase, but I wanna state why I'm not gonna support it and what, what, what's concerned me the most in the back? We have a lot of law enforcement officials, and we actually have my mike, my Utah County sheriff is here, Mike Smith. And two years ago, um, and, and this issue, I, I wish it wasn't political, but it is political. Two years ago, we had a problem in Utah County, and I had a, I had a phone call with, with Sheriff Smith, and he said the Biden administration is dropping off immigrants in Utah County. And it, it wasn't we're dropping off immigrants at the shelter. It's not, we're dropping off immigrants at the hospital. And, and I don't know the status of the immigrants, and, and I don't know that the sheriff knew at the time, but they were dropping them off in the community and that, and that was the federal government. And we were concerned and we were concerned enough that we ran legislation and that, and, and it was, it was Mike Kennedy, former Senator Kennedy, currently Congressman Kennedy. And he ran a bill that said, you need to collaborate federal government. You need to work together. And, and my biggest problem with this bill, and, and I know there's some exceptions, some limitations, but this is a bill that says, don't work together. And that's the message that I read when I read this bill. And that is exactly opposite the policy that we adopted two years ago. And that's my biggest concern. I I, I don't know why we would message that. We don't want our law enforcement officials working together. We, we live in a divided nation and, and it's not okay. And, and we need our law enforcement community, both federal and state working together. And, and I'm sorry, I, I may be ranting a little bit, but this message sends the exact opposite message, the message that we had a problem with two years ago. And this language today is inconsistent with that. And that's why I can't support it. Thank you, chair. Can I respond to that?
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:04:17
Yes. And then we'll go to Senator Baldry again. Yeah.
Sen. Nate Blouin3:04:20
I, to be clear, this does not prevent coordination. It, it limits it to a very specific set of, of locations, uh, where we may run into potential liabilities by forcing our, uh, local law enforcement agencies, our officers, into those places in particular, uh, I frankly, I, if I'd have wrote this bill with every bell and whistle, I wanted to, it would've gone a lot further than it did. Uh, but, but it did not because I was hopeful that it would get a hearing and could have this conversation. But I appreciate the concerns.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:04:50
Thank you. Senator Baldy.
Sen. Heidi Balderree3:04:52
I just wanted to clarify, um, one of the comments that Senator Escamilla made, and that is regarding the no warrant. To be clear, the no warrant only appli applies to our police officers and ICE agents when they encounter, not just when they encounter someone, anyone, when they encounter someone breaking the law. This is not about rounding up anyone, just for fun, just for kicks. This is about doing it. When we see someone breaking the law, that is literally their job. That's it.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:05:23
Thank you. Thank you. Can I respond to that? Yes, please.
Sen. Nate Blouin3:05:26
There Is a new memo that apparently is going around from internal at advice that essentially authorizes them to enter into private homes without judicial warrants. That should scare all of us.
Sen. Heidi Balderree3:05:35speaker not certain
Do you have a copy of that? Uh, not I,
Sen. Nate Blouin3:05:37
I have a headline that I've read through more deeply, but I'm sure we can find
Sen. Heidi Balderree3:05:42speaker not certain
A more, it sounds like a rumor innuendo to me, but I
Sen. Nate Blouin3:05:44
Like it's not, it is. It is. Uh, well, I
Sen. Heidi Balderree3:05:46speaker not certain
Like to, I'm just asking if you had a copy
Sen. Nate Blouin3:05:48
CP reporting on it here, so, okay.
Sen. Heidi Balderree3:05:50speaker not certain
Because they've never been wrong before, but, okay. I just asked if you had a copy. So, okay.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:05:55
We're gonna go ahead and open up a public hearing. And for those of you that were here an hour ago, you kind of don't, don't, don't stand up yet. Um, first of all, all all of those in favor of the bill, will you raise your hand if you'd like to testify? Alright. We have a significant amount. Put your hands down and then, um, well, I'll go online in a minute. All of those against the bill who'd like to testify, please raise your hand. Okay. We have a significant amount there. So we're scheduled to end at five. Um, I'm gonna tell the committee members, I'm probably gonna extend that till five 15. If you have to leave, you have to leave. Um, so Senator, um, blue, and I know you offered, I'm gonna take you up. You can vacate, if you can vacate. Um, so the seat on to my right is in favor of the bill. The seat to my left is against the bill. Um, I'd like to keep both seats, um, filled. So you're sitting in the favor. In favor. Okay. And, uh, please sign in when the other person's talking. All right. We'll start with against the bill. Go ahead. No, we're starting with you, ma'am.
Melanie Monestere, Utah Republican Party3:06:57
Oh, oh, great. Thank you. Um, thank you Committee. Um, you know this bill. I'm Melanie Monastery, by the way. I'm the Vice chair of the Utah Republican Party. You're in the opposed to the bill chair. I am opposed. Sorry. Okay, go ahead. Yes. Um, so yes, You are. Okay. Um, speaking, uh, about this bill, um, you know, we, we've already heard the concern about federal preemption. Um, I think we would have serious problems, uh, legally, uh, with this, because, uh, immigration law is a federal matter. Um, but, you know, the great concern that I have is for the safety of our, um, ice agents and our law enforcement, um, by, uh, not allowing them to wear masks ironically, um, when so many who are, uh, trying to attack and injure them are wearing masks. Um, that, um, we have had many problems with federal agents being doxed, um, with their, um, having to leave their homes, uh, agents being attacked, um, their families being threatened and attacked. Um, that this is just a really inappropriate and unsafe provision, uh, for our law enforcement. And, um, you know, it's, it's very concerning to see, um, that, you know, the, the promotion of this idea of, um, non-cooperation, um, in a situation where we we're looking at Minnesota where, um, those, the problems there are being caused directly by, uh, local and state law enforcement, not cooperating, uh, with, uh, federal agents to help protect them from attacks.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:08:28
Thank you very much for your testimony and for your service in the community. Next. Thank you.
Krista Cook, resident3:08:32
Hi there. My name is Krista Cook.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:08:34
Sorry. Lemme turn that off. Oh, that's okay. Okay. You'll get one. I'm doing one minute. 'cause there's so many of you. Go ahead. Thank you.
Krista Cook, resident3:08:39
Oh, hi. I'm Krista Cook. Um, I live in your district. Thank you. Um, Senator Weiler. Um, but I'm actually neighbors with, um, Senator Es Camelia, which is a topic of a different meeting. Lucky, lucky boundary wise. Um, yes, I'm very lucky. So I live in Rose Park Base, uh, Rose Park. And I, um, my husband and I manage Rose Park Baseball, which is a community rec league. I'm also a medical provider. Um, and I'm here to speak on behalf of my community members that right now are afraid to go out or even attend school. And that's not the Utah that we know and love. Um, I'm privileged because of the color of my skin and the lack of accent. Um, but I think all our welcome here. And I'm, I think that when you didn't want to hear comment from a constituent that wasn't wearing, that didn't have their screen on, because transparency matters and visibility matters, and decorum tends to go a little better when we reveal who we are. I think ICE will behave more appropriately when there's that transparency. And I think this is a great bill and I ask you to support it.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:09:47
Thank you. Thank you. And I just wanna remind everyone I'm following the legislative rules, but your point's well taken. Please.
Holly Crowley, resident3:09:54
Um, my name is Holly Crowley. I am from Stansbury Park, Utah. And I just wanted to make a point that law enforcement, it means, means a whole lot to me. And you guys touched on it, and I really appreciate the questions that you raised. In my opinion, local law enforcement, it should be informed and assist federal investigations in their area as they have a unique understanding of the local community. Better than any federal, uh, agency would. Collaborations between law enforcement agencies is crucial for public and officer safety. The bill creates a dangerous situation for everyone involved. I hope that, um, that we can get some logical reasoning here when, when we're putting, when we're separating law enforcement, local law enforcement from our federal law enforcement, our sheriffs should know when federal law enforcement's coming into their town because they know their community best, and they can make it safer, not only for the federal officers, but for the community citizen that they are there to, I keep thinking of Utah County, when the Feds went in and unfortunately killed a man. These things could all be avoided when you have a good sheriff and you have good law enforcement locally who knows their citizenry and can take care of them and work with the feds in order to make it safe. And I just wanna add, if by chance,
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:11:15
Your time's up. So real quick, wrap it up.
Holly Crowley, resident3:11:17
Just, if they would just let people come to the jails or to the courthouses where these men or women have been charged with their crime and get picked up there. They wouldn't have to go into the communities to get them.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:11:28
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Ella Frandsen, resident3:11:30
Hello, my name is Ella Franon. I am representing myself today, but I actually work at a Salt Lake County Recreation Center, which it's kind of up for debate on whether or not it'd be counted as a sensitive place due to some of the services that we offer. But I want, just wanna say, last year we were actually robbed, um, by a former employee who was wearing a face covering. So I'm well aware of working late at night alone, um, just with regulars at the gym. And we haven't been robbed before. And I just wanna say, I know my community has been targeted by four by ice. I I have neighbors that have been deported. I, um, have a childhood friend whose mother's supported, and he, she's now in Mexico, and so he just doesn't have a mom really anymore. And I just wanna say, I really do not support ice agents wearing masks. I understand the point about protestors. I do think there's a difference, but I also know I'm here saying my full name and going against this bill, and I mean, going in support of the bill. Sorry. But just please do not allow ICE agents to pick up people wearing masks. It's not safe. And our law enforcement should at least show to the public that they are law enforcement and they should show their face as we all, a lot of us do in this positions. Thank you. Thank you very
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:12:38
Much.
Kristin Richey, Eagle Forum3:12:40
Hello, my name's Kristen Richie. I represent Eagle Forum today, and I'm opposed to this bill. I believe it undermines the rule of law and public safety. We have all been watching Minnesota's situation unfold. Minnesota sanctuary politicians have released 470 criminal illegal aliens from their jails back onto the streets, endangering the lives of citizens. This list of criminals arrested in the last three days in Minnesota includes those convicted of child molestation, rape, assault, murder, terrorist threats, and domestic violence. The pictures and crimes of these individuals are posted daily for public review. These politicians, along with compensated protestors, continue to prioritize criminal illegal immigrants over law abiding citizens. This is truly disgraceful. I also found a list of illegal immigrants recently arrested by ICE in Utah, uh, including for aggravated assault, kidnapping, and, and other crimes. We all need to do what we can to support and defend the ICE operations going on in our state. They're courageously enforcing the rule of law authorized by federal authority. Failing to do so, makes our state more dangerous for every citizen.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:14:07
Thank you. Thank You. Next.
Paul Gibbs, resident3:14:10
Hi, my name is Paul Gibbs. I am a citizen of West Valley City, a proud, um, constituent of my favorite Senator, Senator Escamilla. And I want to begin by stating that I love my West Valley community because of the diversity, because we are the melting pot that America is supposed to be. But that wonderful community that in the past has been an ideal place that I'm proud to have my children come up, has a cloud of fear on it now because of the operations of ice. My children are afraid going to school every day, that their, that their friends are going to be taken. Other children are the other children are, are terrified of that. Um, now I, I want to address the point that's been made. Senator Weiler, I commend you for enforcing those Senate rules. On, on, not on showing your face, but I, it I think it's important to point out that we are taking a risk by coming here and showing our faces and names. Some of you have seen me before up here. I've been here many times over the last 10 years. I have received harassment threats against myself, uh, death threats against my, at the time, 1-year-old son. I will get harassment today because there are TV cameras here. I will very likely get threats for being here. I'm showing you my face because I have the courage of my convictions. And when I am doing what I believe is my constitutional duty as a citizen to stand up for what's right, I'm going to do it proudly. And that's all I'm asking is for a consistent set of rules for both citizens and law enforcement officers. I want to thank you all for being here and just ask you to truly consider this space, not just on political allegiances, but on what's right and wrong. Whether you want our churches to be places of fear, want children to be afraid to go to church, because I can tell you that if they, if my children see someone who arrested their church, they will never be comfortable going again. And as a lifelong religious person, that is one of the saddest thoughts I can imagine. Thank you. I i
Sen. Todd Weiler3:16:38
I give you a little extra time, but I just wanna ask you one question. And this is, are you aware that there's not a single country in this world that doesn't deport illegal immigrants?
Paul Gibbs, resident3:16:48
Yes, I am of course aware of that.
Sen. Todd Weiler3:16:50
Okay, but you don't think, you think that that United States should not deport them?
Paul Gibbs, resident3:16:54
I don't. Senator Weiler, I I have to state that I'm very disappointed. That's be far below your usual level. No, I'm of reason. It's an honest question. 'cause there is nothing in my statement that could be reasonably for seen. Okay. As not supporting illegal. Im not supporting deporting illegal immigrants. Okay. I have have opposed creating climate of fear where this is done by masked people coming into places. I am opposing the way it's done. I think that's been very clear for my statements.
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:17:29
Okay. And, and thank you for the clarification. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next.
Tracy Glover, Kane County Sheriff, Utah Sheriffs Association3:17:35
Hello, Mr. Chair. Thanks for having me. And, uh, committee members. Uh, my name is Tracy Glover. I'm the Cain County Sheriff. I'm the president of the Utah Sheriff's Association, who I represent here today, and also the, uh, law enforcement legislative committee. And, uh, we're here to urge you to oppose this bill. Uh, we agree with much of what Senator Mikel said. It sends the wrong message, uh, as, as federal and state law enforcement partners, um, in Utah, we have a, a, a long and rich history with being skeptical of federal overreach, as does this legislative body. And we've taken action against that from time to time. And what we found through those processes is we are better when we do coordinate and cooperate and parsing out differences on a granular, granular level like this bill does, is a step in the wrong direction in our opinion. Um, the truth is, is we are at odds with federal policy on many levels. Uh, sheriffs are fighting against some, some, uh, regulation from the US Forest Service right now. But at the same time, we're not, we're not trying to, uh, to not coordinate or co cooperate with them. We find that the better relationships we have, the more input we have and the way they act within our communities, and that's beneficial. So with that, we would urge you to, uh, law enforcement, community, uh, chief sheriffs, the LELC and the Utah Sheriffs would, would urge you to oppose this bill. Thank
Committee chair (Sen. Todd Weiler)3:19:00
You. Thank you very much. Next.
Adam, resident3:19:04
My name is Adam, and I'm a disabled, uh, citizen. And I'm just for myself, but I know for a fact that our history as Americans as we know it today, anyone who is here right now, even as a white American, at one point, our own ancestors came over here and took land from Native Americans. And basically we are telling people that they're supposed to be illegal and, you know, no human being should be illegal. And at the same time, I can see from what I've noticed, what ice agents do, and not being able to identify an ice agent just like it as a disabled person, I, I can see a lot of people, uh, and, and a lot of people who are even, how do I put it? Basically, a lot of people who are, uh, no matter what color of skin we have, no matter where we come from, there's a lot of people that are disabled that get very mistreated, especially when ICE has done what they do. And I do not support ice what so bad ever.
Unknown speaker3:20:17speaker not certain
So that's why I support this bill. And people should feel safe, especially in places this country considers as their staples like, you know, church or religion or whatever it is, even if someone's not religious, it's just, I'm, I'm not gonna support, I I'm not gonna support ice at all. I don't believe that what's going on is right. Even someone like Renee Good, who is a white American was shot and ice is just going out and about. They're not just finding people who may have quote unquote overstayed their welcome.
Committee chair3:20:55
I need you to wrap it up, but you can finish that thought.
Unknown speaker3:20:59speaker not certain
That's basically it.
Committee chair3:21:01
Okay. Thank you for being with us today. Alright, next sir,
Stephen Done, resident3:21:05
My name is Steven Do. I am a resident of Lindon, Utah. Um, I find myself really conflicted over this bill. Um, I oppose it in its current form, but I think the ideas behind it are, are valid. How we enforce immigration law matters. My family, my, my great-grandmother, she was, uh, she was a native of Mexico and she was also an American citizen. And she chose not to teach her child Spanish because my, my grandpa didn't learn Spanish as a child because she was afraid he was going to get deported because at that time, similar immigration enforcement was being done. That was broad and indiscriminate. And there were being, there were at that time, citizens who were being deported mistakenly. It created fear in the community. She was ashamed her entire life of her skin color and her accent. So how we enforce immigration law matters. Thank you.
Committee chair3:22:16
Thank you. Thanks for being here today. Next,
TJ Young, resident3:22:19
My name is TJ Young and I'm a resident of Salt Lake City. For the past 365 days, I have run a community led virtual ice watch in the Salt Lake Valley, the entire, uh, an entire year of hearing the fears of targeted immigrant families and validating what is a real threat from what is a false or fake report. Every single day I talk to multiple families. Dozens have been illegally profiled and stopped by masked men who will not identify themselves, some of whom have, have smashed their car windows to remove them from their cars, some of whom have impersonated local police, which is legal, but immoral, and some who have lied about being attacked or endangered by the families. They're detaining at least two instances, instances of which have been disproven by security cams or dash cams. We have even had an incident where ICE kidnapped a legal resident to force them to give a family member up in exchange. Constitutional and human rights are being violated here in Utah by ice C-R-O-C-B-P and HSI every single day. They're randomly targeting working families, headed to their jobs at six to eight in the morning. They're not identifying themselves. This doesn't make anyone safer, including legitimate local and federal law enforcement. All Utah residents should be able to validate when their rights are being violated by federal overreach or by an unknown lawless attacker. Our overwhelmingly peaceful, lawful, beloved immigrant friends, family and communities deserve better. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Andrew Frederick, resident3:23:45
Thank you. My name is Andrew Frederick. I'm speaking for myself. I live in House District 38. The spill undermines our public safety and law enforcement. It increases risk for Utah families and protects criminals from accountability. This bill can easily turn public places like courthouses and libraries into safe havens for those evading ice spill isn't compassionate to law abiding utahns, but will enable law breakers. We've seen public disapproval where Utah Utahns Express feeling less safe due to such proposals. It also signals non-cooperation with federal law enforcement, which could attract federal scrutiny and boling criminals. We heard last session from local city and education leaders about the strains they were already experiencing. Instead, we need to put Utah first by protecting our people. Let's cooperate with law enforcement officers that enforcing legitimate decades old laws. Let's strengthen our ability to stop criminals that are targeting these same officers who are working to keep us safe. Please fill out against SB 1 36 and protect Utah.
Committee chair3:24:47
Thank you. Thank you for your time.
En Canada, resident3:24:51
Hi, uh, ed in Canada. Pronouns, they, them District nine, Matthew 35, 36 for I was hungry and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you invited me in. I needed clothes and you clothed me. I was sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to visit me. The stranger is the undocumented, the stranger is the immigrant. Are you inviting them in? Are you doing the christly thing? It seems much of this legislature is blaspheming against Jesus, not living in a Christ-like way. I assume the majority of this committee is Christian. So I ask, why do you let our government betray Christ? Why do not ensure that constitutional rights of our community is protected? And the progressive example of Jesus, Jesus set is followed. What evil infects your hearts. Let the bill go to the floor so we can see the rot. Jesus so often struck out.
Committee chair3:25:55
Thank you. I'm just want to say I'm pretty sure that heaven has a immigration policy, but that's just my belief. Um, next,
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:26:04
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff, um, I would ask you that you oppose this bill and I thank you for the time, Mr. Chair. Uh, I wanted to speak a little bit about, uh, an urban perspective on this. We have worked hard and I echo the words of, um, sheriff Glover. We've worked hard to cooperate with our federal partners on this to be able to do things in Utah the way that we want things done in Utah. Uh, and largely I think that's why, um, you're not seeing the things being done in states like Minnesota happening in Utah is because of that cooperation. Um, I've made it clear, um, in our approach in Utah County is that we target crime, and I make no excuses for that. We target crime. If you're committing crime in Utah County, we target you and we will come get you. We will find you. And the last thing that we need is some medieval, um, free zone or King's X area where we can hide from the law. I've heard of drug free zones, um, but a zone where a criminal can hide from us, um, makes no sense to me as we're targeting these criminals. Um, that is, that is what we do and we'll continue to do. Um, and on the face coverings, I just wanted a few points. I appreciate the things that have been said. Um, it targets law enforcement and I would ask you to remember, we live in a very cold area. I have deputies that work counties that will put on a gator to cover their face. I don't support face coverings in the manner that we're talking, but I do understand why they're doing it. And there is a real danger. And I also have, as an administrator, a duty to keep my officers safe, and it gets to the point where their families are in jeopardy. Then we'll do what we need to keep them safe and keep their families from being targeted. And that is why ICE is wearing those masks. Thank you. Thank you.
Committee chair3:27:48
Oh, I'm sorry. Question Sheriff. Uh, Senator Brammer.
Sen. Brady Brammer3:27:51
Uh, sheriff Smith, can you tell us, uh, can you expound a little bit on the, uh, the type of criminals that you've seen, uh, detained by ICE in Utah County and how they came to? Can you tell us a little bit about how that, how that happens?
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:28:08
Yeah. So, um, I actually ran some numbers on this and, uh, last year in 2025, um, there were actually five that that came into Utah County Jail that were just on an ice hold, right? Um, five in a year. The rest were all individuals who had committed crime in Utah County. They'd been arrested by, by my deputies or by local law enforcement for committing crimes in Utah County. Um, so that's how they're being, uh, that's how we're encountering them. The, the deputies that I have that, uh, are working closely with ice, they're only working. Um, nothing's really changed for us. We're targeting crime. And when that crime intersects with illegal immigrants addressing that problem as well, some of the problems that I've seen in our jail specifically is we've put people in jail for serious crimes like, like trafficking narcotics through our county and into the state. And local judges have released them out of jail before we've had time to do anything about it. And they're in the wind, we'll never see 'em again. Um, we're cooperating with ice. We're at least able to get holds put on these people so that we can make sure we identify them and, and they pay the consequences for the crimes they're committing in our community.
Sen. Brady Brammer3:29:29
About how many have you seen deported out in your county?
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:29:33
How many deported? Yes. Um,
Sen. Brady Brammer3:29:35
Or turned over to ICE and maybe deported. I don't know what, where you have numbers on that or
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:29:39
If you do. Well, I can, I can tell you roughly, um, it really hasn't changed a lot. If you wanna talk between, I mean, ICE has been around for decades. Um, let's get real, this, this is a partisan issue because they've, they've never been, they've been all right before now, but now all of a sudden they're, they're horrible. Right? So in, in 2024 under the Biden administration, um, we had, of all the inmates that came through our jail, um, about 10% of those were illegal immigrants. And that stayed about the same this year. Um, of those, we had about 20%. So the, the rough numbers about 1400, 1400. So about 20% of those ice came, put a hold on and started a, a process of deporting them. That's 2024 and 2025. Under the new administration that I've, I've tracked that, that's risen from, um, 20% to 40% are being deported and the rest are just like always being released back into the community.
Sen. Brady Brammer3:30:44
And that's after being detained for committing a crime that one of your officers arrested them for based on probable cause.
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:30:51
It's not infractions, it's at least a misdemeanor or, or a felony.
Committee chair3:30:54
Yes. Okay. Thank you. Before We go to Senator Pitcher, sheriff, I have a question. Um, do you, in your opinion, is Utah a sanctuary state?
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:31:03
No, it is not. Why do you say that? Because we cooperate with our federal partners. Um, we, and again, targeting crime, we, we target the crime that happens in our communities. Um, I think if, uh, I think if you, I think there's unintended consequences of what's being asked here today. I think when we take the step into being, uh, non-cooperative with our federal partners, that's when we do see the things that are happening in other states when they're taking these, drying, these ridiculous lines in the sand saying, you know what? It's okay if if you're an illegal immigrant to commit crime in our community, we'll protect you. And we're not saying that in Utah, your law enforcement is not saying that in Utah.
Committee chair3:31:44
I turned off my own mic. Thank you, Senator Pitcher.
Sen. Stephanie Pitcher3:31:48
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sheriff, I wanna address some of the data that you just raised. Um, of the individuals that were arrested, do you have information about the disposition of those cases,
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:31:57
Of their deportation status? Not the
Sen. Stephanie Pitcher3:31:59
Deportation, but the criminal proceedings?
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:32:01
The, well, no, I don't, I haven't tracked the each individual crime, no.
Sen. Stephanie Pitcher3:32:06
Okay. So they're arrested on an allegation, but you don't have information specifically about whether there's a conviction. Correct. Right. And do you know, um, of those, does, is it possible that ICE can come in and initiate immigration proceedings before the underlying criminal allegations are
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:32:22
Resolved? And they can? We've, we've, our, personally, I would like to see somebody pay the consequences for the crime that they've committed and go through. And that's the way we've always done it. Um, to have them go through our, our justice system process. And then at the end of that ICE can place a detainer on them if, you know, whatever, if they're gonna be jailed or if they're going to be released, they can do it at that time. Uh, I can't sit here and tell you that happens every time, depending on what the crimes are. Sometimes they, they'll place a detainer prior.
Sen. Stephanie Pitcher3:32:53
Okay. So to be clear, somebody could be accused of, of a crime, not have had their day in court or not have gone, received the due process that any other individual receives in the system before immigration proceedings are initiated. Yeah,
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:33:05
It's possible. I I had one just recently that to your point, um, that came in on a crime. Um, to, to our surprise, ICE did put, put a detainer on them. But, uh, looking at it, and to your point, you're right, but looking at their criminal history, and here's where the rest of the story comes in, they had previous convictions for the same thing. So that placed them on that list to, to start the process.
Sen. Stephanie Pitcher3:33:32
Yeah. Understood. Thank you.
Committee chair3:33:36
Thank you. I guess, uh, one more question. Senator Escamilla. Sorry, sheriff, one more question. Sheriff. Sorry. We're you, you don't get off that easy. There's a new sheriff in town and it's me just, just kidding, Kidding. We're all in trouble.
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:33:51
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just sheriff a, a question and I, um, was listening and I, I walked towards the end of your presentation and going back to just data points. 'cause data is, is important. And just to be clear, the data points in your numbers that you were describing, comparison 2024 to 2025, which is change in administration, only reflect individuals that are encountering with a law enforcement agency because the other deportations are happening through different process. Just to be clear, you're not keeping track on those
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:34:25
Well, no, I am that through my jail. I have, I had five.
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:34:29
Okay. But I mean, anyone if they're in your jail is because there has been, uh,
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:34:33
The data I gave you was all my jail. So in my jail I had five in a year that fits that
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:34:38
Category. Okay. Okay. So, but not the individuals that may have been in an a, um, ice hearing being then deported at that point so everybody else that may have a civil case, that is not gonna end up in your jail. 'cause for them to end up in your jail, there has to be a violation that a presume crime committed in order to be incarcerated in your jail. To be
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:34:59
Clear, no. They could be put in on a detainer, on a nice hold.
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:35:03
Oh. Brought up to your jail as well, because you guys have a contract like that, but you are not counting everybody else. That is not in your jail at all. You're not giving track
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:35:12
On those. I'm giving numbers
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:35:12
From my jail. Just your jail. Just to be clear, those numbers comparison, 24 to 25 is for your jail and what you are obviously, you know. Yep.
Mike Smith, Utah County Sheriff3:35:21
Oversized. I'm speaking to Utah County.
Committee chair3:35:22
Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, ma'am. Thank you for your patience. Yes, it's fine. Attorney. Very popular. Yes he is.
Kaitlin Hannig, resident3:35:29
Okay. My name's Kaitlyn Hanock. I have lived in Utah my entire life. Um, and I'm gonna talk about the face masks today, that facet of the bill. So Senator Brammer earlier you made a comment that I felt like was a false equivalence where you said, oh, why can protestors wear masks but ice agents shouldn't be able to? And I have a very clear answer. And that's the power disparity. So why would we hold a, like, private citizens gathering to the same standard that we hold ice agents who are agents of our government walking around with, uh, lethal force. Um, and then we had another concern that was the anti-D doxing. And so we have how many? Five, six, um, law enforcement officers in this room right now. I just sat next to Sheriff Smith, that with his full chest, came here and spoke about the things that he believes in. Why are we not concerned about doxing them? Why is it just ice officials that we feel like are, uh, oh, we're gonna dox them? There are so many people that are doing their jobs and they do not need to wear masks. Senator Cullimore, I'm sorry. Uh, sheriff Smith said that he was concerned about people hiding from the law. And that's exactly what we are worried about too. We are in agreement. Thank
Committee chair3:36:47
You. Thank you. Thanks for being here.
Maryanne Christensen, Utah Legislative Watch3:36:49
Mary Ann Christensen, executive director of Utah Eagle for of Utah Legislative Watch. And I am here to oppose the bill. There are just three things that I might be able to add to things that people have already said. And number one, we had four years of an open border, and now we have a really, really big problem with illegals in the United States of America. And we have an administration who wants to deal with that. And ICE agents have the authority to do the things that they're doing. Secondly, um, if, if our, I'm gonna Cut It off police, and if our, our united, our highway patrolmen were being treated like ice agents, probably the authorities over them would make some adjustments to make sure that they're safe also. And the last thing that I wanted to address was a lot of people have said, well, they're only on a detainer. A detainer is part of a judicial process for, for processing them and getting them back to their home countries. So thank you for voting. No,
Committee chair3:37:54
Thank you. And sir, I'm gonna have you be the last in person and then we're gonna go online. Sorry, everyone, we're just, you know, I've already gone over time, but um, go ahead sir. So
Jonathan Hymas, resident3:38:04
I record ice. Um, that's what my group does. We record them to provide transparency to the people of
Committee chair3:38:13
Utah. Oh. Can you tell us your name, sir?
Jonathan Hymas, resident3:38:15
My name is Jonathan Jaus. Um, any other information you need? No, just that. Okay. So when you, so growing up, I would wear a mask in the winter and police would see us and they would see us as hoodlums. And they would have us remove our masks because if we were to do anything that would harm them, they would want to know who harmed them. We have officers in this building who are not wearing masks because they are proud of their job, they're proud of what they do, and they actively try to integrate with their communities and communicate with their people that they serve. So that is not why, that is why they don't get doxed as much as ice. That is why they often don't need to wear face masks is because they build a good reputation. So hoodlums and bank robbers wear masks, and we see ice agents walk into their job wearing ski masks that look like bank robbers. So if I see someone who looks like a bank robber, my assumption is to assume they are a bank robber. Now, me in Utah, an open carry state that allows me to defend myself and protect myself, I have split second actions to defend myself from people who may cause me harm. And there are instant incidences where HSI has not been on the front of their vests when they've interacted with
Committee chair3:39:38
Us. I need you to wrap it up.
Jonathan Hymas, resident3:39:39
They have not had clear, clear clarification that they are ice agents. When they harass me and my people, they come up with masks and they shine lights in us and they harass us. None of you have talked about the citizen safety, but only the ice agent safety and your citizens will take safety into their own matters if you cannot do that for them. Thank you.
Committee chair3:40:02
Alright, thank you. Um, sir, I Juab just stay there. I just announced that we're gonna go online for the last four, but stay there in case we have some issues. I might, I might give you in a minute. So, uh, Sam, Stu, Seth, Seth Stewart, can you turn on your camera and tell us, um, your name and what county you live in or what state you live in, if it's outside of Utah?
Seth Stewart, resident3:40:26
Yeah, so I'm Seth Stewart, American Fork Can here in Utah County. Um, so I don't know how much we've noticed this, but this bill takes the federal agency default practice of masking and it metastasize it, it to our local law enforcement. And here's how it would do this. It not only incentivizes, it also mandates that every law enforcement agency create a facial covering policy. And that mandate provokes a fear-based defensive response to self immunize against the threatened liability in this bill. And such policies could force officers to mask in situations where masking is neither necessary nor helpful, and requiring agencies to restrict their mask policies to the specific clearly defiant and limited circumstances. That's an illusion because an agency can create an unlimited number of limited circumstances and our legal code grows in exactly this way. And a result of this is escalation, not accountability. So masked, unidentified officers become indistinguishable from criminals, provocateurs, or foreign operatives, which erodes trust and collapses the critical distinction between local and federal law enforcement. I also urge caution if a substitute or amendment is considered that eliminates restrictions on law enforcement operations in sensitive locations because overcompensating for that effect categorically blowing away protections for sacred and sensitive places invites increased targeting of those locations. So the pattern of installation, we don't have to participate
Committee chair3:41:43
In it. Thank you, Seth. Thank you. Um, we'll next go to Jesse West. Jesse, please turn on your camera and tell us where, um, county where you live.
Jesse West, Salt Lake County Libertarian Party3:41:52
Yes, uh, Jesse West with the Salt Lake County Libertarian Party, and we support this bill because it holds law enforcement accountable. Uh, again, Jesse West with the Salt Lake County Libertarian Party.
Committee chair3:42:05
Thank you, sir. Melanie Mortenson. Melanie, can you turn on your camera and tell us what county you live in?
Melanie Mortensen, resident3:42:12
I mean, it's Davis, if you don't know, My name is Melanie Mortenson. Can you hear me okay? Yes. Perfect. My name is Melanie Mortenson. I live in Davis County and I oppose this bill. One of my greatest concerns as a Utah citizen is that this bill prohibits state and local law enforcement from assisting ICE in operations, near sensitive locations like churches, hospitals, libraries, and courthouses. This creates barriers that could allow criminals, criminal, non-citizens to evade deportation, putting Utah citizens and communities at greater risk from community individuals who have committed serious crimes. These criminals need to be held accountable, not protected by our community spaces. Our community leaders have noted that this weakens overall law enforcement efforts and makes neighborhoods less safe. It makes me feel less safe. We have cities and schools that need greater support, not a lessening thereof. Please oppose this bill. Thank you.
Committee chair3:43:03
Thank you. Jamie Booze, if I'm saying that right. Um, you are, Jamie, can you turn your camera? Tell, tell us what what county you live in.
Jaime Booz, resident3:43:13
My camera is, is on. Can you see me Okay?
Committee chair3:43:16
Um, if you could talk a little bit louder, that would be ideal.
Jaime Booz, resident3:43:20
Uh, my name is Jamie Booze. I'm a resident of Salt Lake City. I'm a medical provider working for the University of Utah. And just speaking on behalf of myself, one of my biggest concerns is eliminating barriers to access for everyone who needs medical care. If ICE is or might be present in our facilities at any time, patients are likely to avoid seeking care out of fear. This means avoiding emergency care. It means avoiding treating communicable diseases. It means avoiding mental health services. It means avoiding care after being the victim of a crime. This affects everyone, children, families, people with disabilities, and our elders. And this affects our ability as clinicians to provide adequate care to our communities. Healthcare is a human right. Hospitals should be safe havens to protect our healthcare spaces and preserve access for all U Utahans I support Senate Bill 1 36. Thank you.
Committee chair3:44:08
Thank you. Madeline, or Madeline, can you turn on your camera and tell us what county you live in? Madeline?
Magdeleine Bradford, resident3:44:22
Hi, my name is Madeline Bradford. I live in Utah County. Um, and I am in favor of this bill, especially as it holds our sensitive places, sacred. As a deeply religious person and a member of the predominant religion here, um, I want everybody to be able to worship in our temples without fear. I want all of my friends who attend different language wards, such as, I apologize, I'm the front runner, but, uh, those who go to Spanish speaking awards or Portuguese speaking awards should be able to worship without fear deportation. Thank you.
Committee chair3:44:54
Thank you. All right, sir, since you made the trip up here, I'll give you one minute and you'll be our last. Um, uh, I know I'm a, I'm, I'm, I'm rewarding someone that didn't listen to me, but you'll be our last one.
Jackson Green, Declare Emergency3:45:07
Okay. Thanks Senator Todd Whaler. Um, so I, I don't support this bill. I think it lacks teeth. I think we need to abolish the police abolish ice. Really? And so this, it just doesn't go far enough. Nate, I I appreciate what you've done by all means. But ICE is terrorizing our communities. They're, they're absolute terrorists, so to say, oh, just don't let 'em kidnap people in masks. Oh. Just don't let 'em kidnap people in their places of worship in the libraries at their schools. That's just not enough to me. Um, I, I hate to draw on Nazi Germany because Germany has moved way past that. We are basically on par with that though. And that's kind of the example that everybody knows. It's basically Nazi Germany right now. And so little bills like this that are reformative are not nearly enough. We need to abolish the institution and start over. And I understand that some people don't like immigration, illegal immigrants, but the way that ICE operates, they don't just target illegal immigrants, they target mostly people that are here legally. Thank you for your time.
Committee chair3:46:13
Oh. Can you tell us your name and be sure to sign in?
Jackson Green, Declare Emergency3:46:16
Yeah, I've signed, I've signed in right here. Okay. Uh, Jackson Green. Thank you.
Committee chair3:46:21
Thank you Mr. Green. Alright. We're gonna close the public hearing. Bring it back to the committee for further action. Um, so who wants to go first? Nobody. All right. Senator Escamilla, uh,
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:46:42
We ready for a motion, Mr. Chair?
Committee chair3:46:44
Um, well, let's go to Senator Brammer first. I don't think he was gonna make a motion. I was gonna make a motion. Oh, you were. Okay. Which, well, let me go back to Senator. Go ahead. Escamilla. Then if you wanna make a substitute motion, that would be appropriate. Senator Escamilla. Thank
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:46:57
You, Mr. Chair. Make a motion that we pass favorably SP 1 36.
Committee chair3:47:01
Okay. We have a motion before discussion of that motion.
Sen. Brady Brammer3:47:03
Senator Brammer? Yeah. Substitute motion to table. Okay.
Committee chair3:47:07
We have a substitute motion to table. Um, the, um, the effect of that would be the bill would be held in the committee and then it would, um, take I think a three-fourths vote, two-thirds vote to UNT it. And that has to be done at the next meeting. So, okay. We have a substitute motion to table that is an order, um, par you know, from a Mason's rules standpoint or parliamentary procedure discussion to the substitute motion. And go back to The Yes, please. Thank
Sen. Luz Escamilla3:47:36
You. As, as a sponsor of the original motion, you know, I, I recognize this is, this our unprecedented times and, um, hearing from law enforcement is important. I think that the, what we're trying to do here is bring some level of protection for communities to feel safe on very, very sacred places. If anything, churches should be protected. And if it's not gonna be in this piece of legislation, I encourage, uh, all of my colleagues to find a way of protecting, um, churches and religious places for individuals to be able to worship freely, which is something we deeply care in the state. Um, I think this bill can have some changes. I know the sponsors willing to work on those changes, but it's important that we send the right message to all communities, um, that this state will follow, um, you know, the law when it comes to those engagements and, and, you know, hope that we can vote against the substitute motion.
Committee chair3:48:35
Alright. Senator Blouin, would you like to either res Well, I'll give you an opportunity to respond to the public comments and or comment on the competing motions. It's a confusing one. What's that? You can do both. That's
Sen. Nate Blouin3:48:49
A, that's a confusing one. Uh, I, I'm, I it's your turn. Can you just consider this summation? Is that Yes, sure. Is that okay? Okay. Uh, well, appreciate the conversation. I, I to the comment made, uh, by the last person up here. I, I'll just say I agree with much of what was said. My note right here said this should be stronger. Uh, there have been loud calls going across the country with large public support at this point to abolish. ISIS is an agency, uh, that is not that old. We did find before this, it is an agency that I think we could, uh, push the responsibilities to other places of our federal government. Of course, we cannot do that at the state level. Um, but I, I, I think, uh, getting rid of this agency abolishing ice is, uh, something that I support, but we can't accomplish that here in, in Utah. So, um, you know, this is a, again, an issue of religious freedom, of protecting our places of worship, uh, against an agency that really has grown too large, too unaccountable. The, the funding, uh, the, the issues of due process that are being skipped here, I think are, uh, too much to overlook. And I, frankly, I think there were, were several mis misconceptions or misunderstandings about the bill, uh, and especially from some of the law enforcement folks in the room, that this does not, again, this is not strong enough for me either, but I, I was hopeful to give it a hearing and, uh, and that we did. So, uh, there were pieces there that I would like to see go further. But this bill does as written, uh, still allow for cooperation. It still allows for, uh, state and local law enforcement agents to work with, uh, federal law enforcement in, uh, many circumstances that are outlined on line 66 and, and down from there a bit. Um, but, uh, I think we do, we have a responsibility to act where we can, uh, within the purview of the legislature. I feel that SB 1 36 really does precisely that. Uh, it ensures that we, that we don't use state resources, that we don't use state personnel or funding, uh, to amplify federal enforcement actions that are creating fear. They're raising constitutional concerns that are undermining community trust. I've been in many different locations lately, uh, where folks have raised this concern of federal law enforcement running roughshod in our communities, uh, in all sorts of circumstances. So this protects sensitive and public spaces. It, um, ties cooperation to due process and valid judicial authority. Um, it, it, it doesn't stop federal law enforcement, but it does limit our state's role in it, which I think is, uh, something that we have generally tried to, um, say that we agree with here in Utah. So for, for the integrity, the integrity of our, our neighborhoods for accountability, um, for respect for the, the dignity of the folks in this state, I would urge for the support of the bill. So, I guess opposition to the substitute motion if I am in the right place in my head here.
Committee chair3:51:46
Thank you. Uh, Senator Brammer, would you like to sum?
Sen. Brady Brammer3:51:48
Yeah, just real quick. I, you know, when, when the last witness was, was talking about wanting to go further and he, he mentioned he wanted to abolish the police, I saw the bill sponsor nodding his head vigorously in support of Apol, um, abolishing the police. And, and, you know, that was, uh, I'm not willing to go down the path of anything that takes us that way. I think that this goes in the wrong direction. Uh, we need more cooperation. Uh, you know, this is just, you know, it's a statement, bill, and you've had your chance to make your statement, and I think it's time to vote. Thanks.
Sen. Nate Blouin3:52:23
Can I respond to that comment? Because
Committee chair3:52:25
Yes, you may respond.
Sen. Nate Blouin3:52:26
I, I was, I was specifically shaking, nodding my head at the piece about abolishing ice, which I think is, uh, uh, different than, I didn't hear a piece about abolishing the police in there. Maybe he said that, um, I was nodding an agreement with the, the piece I just mentioned there.
Committee chair3:52:40
Alright, so I just, uh, so we're clear. I announced previously if the motion to table is successful, it would take a two thirds vote at the next meeting of the judiciary standing committee to UNT it. However, the motion to table itself only requires a simple majority. Um, so with that, um, I'd do, I'd like a roll call vote. Senator Vickers. Baldry Aye. Brammer Aye. Comore? Yes. Escamia? No. Fillmore Aye. Mikel Aye. Musman. Aye. Pitcher. Chair Ball. Uh, chair. Weiler.
Sen. Todd Weiler3:53:26
I'm gonna take the chair's prerogative to explain my vote. I'm a hard no on the bill, but I'm also a no on the motion to table because I'd rather just vote it down so I'm a no.
Committee chair3:53:35
But, so the, the, the motion passes to table six to three with Weiler Escamia and pitch voting, uh, in the negative. So, thank you Senator Blouin. We will take one final motion. Motion to adjourn. All in favor say aye. Aye. We are adjourned.