S.B. 192 Legislative Activities Amendments: transcript

Thank you. And I actually asked John Cannon to come up here in C case. There's some technical questions. Um, this is Bill we worked on last year, and this is basically a reification of how the legislative management committee works and operates. And last year we were gonna deal with some office space issues at the Capitol. And this bill, even though we were very upfront about that, we informed folks of some of the changes to office space. This, this bill got caught up in a lot of contention and we, we held onto the bill. Um, there's this bill has nothing to do with office space and none of that language is in this bill this year. But, um, this, this bill's just simply here to help clarify legislative management committee. Uh, the House and the Senate have had two different policies dealing with, with issues like work workplace harassment. And this, this bill creates policies to govern branch wide, both House and the Senate to create some consistency. Um, another note, another change that that was not just a reification legislative procurement. We did have some committees that were attempting to do some procurement outside of, um, executive approaches or outside of, outside of the standard process. And we, we just make sure we narrow that back in. But with that, I, I'm just gonna open up four questions. This is mostly, mostly a codification of what, what is happening right now. And, and again, I'm gonna phone a friend on any of the technical questions.

Thank you Mr. Chair. Make a motion that we pass out. Wait, is there a substitute? No, no. Pass out. S sp 1 92.

Thank you. Can, can you please just tell us your opinion of the office space issues? We'd like to include that on The record.

Representative Matthews I'll waive summation has been waived.

Thank you. And, and we saw most of this bill last session. This is the legislative management committee, and it's kind of a reification, it's kind of clean up all at the same time. Um, last year we, we, we held this bill at the end. We, we dealt with some office space issues, and that's why we held it at the end. But this clarifies that LMC oversees workplace harassment discrimination policy. The reason we do that is because the House and the Senate could have different policies. We want consistency, modifies quorum requirements to be consistent with legis other legislative committees. It modifies LMC meeting requirements to eliminate unnecessary meetings. It clarifies that the oversight of branch wide internal administrative matters is that the LMC duty and eliminates certain administrative duties and, and legislative leadership. It eliminates LMC committee oversight. Previously subcommittee met in the fall approved legislative budgets. That approval process is moved to the EAC appropriately. Um, the subcommittee also received performance measures from legislative staff. Uh, one of the things that it also does is it eliminates, uh, legislative procurement and makes sure that, that that is actually happening through LMC rather rather than individual committees. Um, this is very, very similar to what we did last year. But with that, I'm open for questions. I do have an amendment online, and if we get into some technical questions, I'll probably phone a friend. I know, I dunno if John Cannon's here, but he's done, they've done a lot of work to make sure that we, we, we get this bill right this session. So with that, I'll conclude.

I mean, right, right now, this committee's supposed to meet quarterly, and this just simply says it needs to meet, um, no later than 60 days af after the session. Um, in the past, I've been told, I I, it wasn't until this last year I was on legislative management, but there are times we are meeting when we, we don't necessarily need to meet. And there was a, a requirement to meet quarterly and, and that's kinda what the amendment deals with.

Motion to adopt amendment number one in Senator ml's. Name, Uh, that's appropriate. The motion to, uh, then adopt amendment number one. And Senator ml's name And discussion of that motion.

To favor recommend Senate bill 1 92 As amended Motion before us is to favorably recommend Senate bill 1 92 with the, with the amended.

Thank you. And I, I have to apologize to Senator Harper. He was getting, getting excited. I was off the floor and this came, came up before legislative management activities. It just, just as with our LMC committee, um, first thing we do is we we're trying to standardize, um, workplace harassment policies. The House and the Senate had different policies and this would bring some uniformity. This also dictates how we deal with procurement. There was a time when, um, there was, there were actually some committees that were doing some procurement independent of, of legislative leaderships. We, we, we resolve that. But this is a reification and cleanup of that, that committee that we've worked on, we worked on this last session and ultimately we didn't get this done last session right outta time. But with that, that's the bill before you and I'm open for questions.

Thank you. And, uh, to be kind to Senator Harper, I'm gonna waive summation and move this bill be read for third time.

Senator Vickers Baldy Aye. Lein Aye. Brammer Bus Colmore. Ms. Camilla Aye. Fillmore Aye. Grover Harper Kinins Ipson Johnson. Juab McKay Mikel Aye. Milner Musselman The, uh, Owens pitcher, Milner Aye. Plum Rebe Sandal Stevenson Stratton Vickers Weiler Wilson Winterton, president Adams Aye.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro Tim. Motion to substitute with first substitute house bill 1 92. I'm sorry. With Senate substitute House 1 92.

Yes. So this does four things. First of all, it makes, uh, the president and speaker as vice chairs of the Capital Preservation Board. If the governor is absent from the meeting, either the president or the speaker will chair the board. And if the governor and one of the vice chairs is absent, the remaining vice chair will chair. If a designee attends a capital Preservation Board meeting on the governor's, president's, or speaker's behalf, the designee can cannot chair. That's what the substitute does.

Uh, just, uh, appreciate adopting the substitute.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro Tim. So, uh, what this, uh, substitute does is it updates and clarifies the policy and concerning the general legislative branch administration, including policies concerning procurement, workplace discrimination, the intern program, legislative records, and others, uh, some of the key points is it clarifies that, uh, the LMC oversees workplace harassment and the discrimination policy. It modifies the LMC Quorum requirements to be consistent with other legislative committees. It also modifies the LMC meeting requirements to eliminate any unnecessary meetings. Uh, they do that by meeting quarterly. It clarifies the oversight of branch wide internal administrative manners, uh, and it also, uh, eliminates the LMC subcommittee on oversight. Previously, the subcommittee met in the fall to approve legislative budgets that, uh, now has been moved to the Executive Appropriations Committee. The subcommittee has also received performance majors from legislative staff offices. Those performance majors now go to the full legislative management committee. It also provides that LMC policy governs the general council's representation of legislative clients and for improved readability. It moved it into its own section. The legislative general council's responsibility to correct technical errors and legislation and the Utah Code, and it slightly narrows the General Council's authority, but is almost identical. It also eliminates the obsolete publishing requirements of the legislature. Um, when I was a page in the Idaho legislature, we had bill books and all that kind of exciting stuff that had to be maintained on our desks. Obviously now we are all computerized. It, uh, repeals a provision governing legislators attendance at meetings. These provisions are now in legislative rule. It updates the definition of legislative procurement and it in, uh, to include the House Senator, a staff office of the legislature. It eliminates reporting requirements. And then it clarifies the State Capital Preservation Board's responsibilities when promulgating certain rules to regulate activities on Capitol Hill. So that would be, uh, for example, time, manner, and place, uh, that becomes, uh, part of the Capitol Preservations Board's responsibility. Um, this bill also provides that, uh, the Capital Preservation Board, uh, promulgates. A rule does not restrict LMC from adopting a similar policy on behalf of the legislature. It directs the executive director of the Capital Preservation Board to notify and consult with the Speaker and president. When a person appeals a denial of a requested activity in the legislative area and it provides that a bill summary created by legislative staff members is not part of the legislation. And with that, uh, Mr. Speaker Pro tem, that's what this bill does.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Pro Tem. I motion to circle

Yes, I would. Um, as I was looking through this, I feel like I probably need more looking through this because it looks like that in this bill, what we're doing is we're transferring power from the capital Preservation boards over to the Legislative Management Committee line, uh, 1051 to 1054. It talks about a transfer of powers there and whose decision can supersede the others. It also talks in there about not having to meet as often, which I think decreases potentially transparency and accountability. So I feel like we need to look at this and make sure this is really the direction we want to go. And I'm hoping that my colleagues will vote to circle this bill so that we can all take a little bit closer look at it and make sure this is a direction we really wanna head.

I'd resist that motion. This, the, the lines that, uh, the good representative's talking about. Uh, by meeting less, it actually is trying to solve a problem that we have by having to have the LMC meet in order to solve different issues that are going on and, and allows the Capital Preservation Board to be able to act on those issues.

Thank you Mr. Speaker ProAm. I would sec second the motion to circle. Um, I have concerns about some lines in the bill as well. 10 18 to 10 21. I asked the drafting attorney to clarify and she said that she would need some time to, to look into it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, could I reserve the right to make a motion?

Well, you wanna make, I wanna reserve the right to make a motion. Go ahead. Will the sponsor yield? Will the sponsor yield Sponsor yield?

I'm trying to understand, and I did look at this earlier and then as it's so busy, we, I had didn't have time to reach out. So I apologize that this is happening on the floor on lines 10 52 through 10 78. The intention there, I think you stated, but, but please clarify for me, is to allow the Capital Preservation Board to handle decisions regarding free speech events. Could you clarify that for me please?

So time, manner in place is, uh, the way that you regulate, um, different communication activities on a particular site. So we're talking about the capital here. Obviously you have a lot of different groups who utilize the capital grounds. And so time, manner in place is, is the legal way that you can actually direct people to what times they can use the capital, how they use the capital, um, and, and then allows them to, to regulate that activity so that it's, as long as it's consistent with the capital grounds that they can do that.

Thank you. I I probably didn't ask my question clearly enough. And so I'm gonna re-ask the question a little differently. Representative Peterson, will you yield to another question? Sponsor yield. Thank you. So this language is giving new authority to the Capital Preservation Board to make decisions and determinations on free speech events. I understand the time, manner, place, the, the Supreme Court, the, the case law surrounding that. What I'm asking is this gives authority to the Capital Preservation Board to make those determinations, yes or no?

Uh, that's my understanding, yes.

Okay. And this, this is my concern and I apologize that this is happening on the floor, but I recently reached out to the Capital Preservation Board to reserve some time for a prayer caucus. And I was told that my request was denied because of separation of church and state. That is a direct quote. I nearly dropped the phone. Um, very concerning that we are now basically giving over to the capital preservation board power to make those determinations. And I would just caution, I would like to have some more conversations about this. So I would support the motion to circle. At this point, I don't necessarily want to amend, 'cause I know this was carefully negotiated, but I also have serious concerns about this language. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm. I, I just, uh, I also have concerns. I I look at the section, uh, beginning on, uh, line 3 72 where it says that the Office of Legislative research and General Counsel under the direction of general counsel shall review, examine and correct any technical errors. I I, I just worry that, uh, we might be getting into space. That's, I, I, I, I think it's a good idea to circle and and to look at this. Thank you.

Well, I think that it's pretty clear that there are things that people Have questions about in this bill, and I think it's only prudent that we only pass something that we know what it is. And, and I don't think that the Capital Preservation board and the legislative committee or management committee, whatever they're called, I don't think that's something that we're all super familiar with. And so this is like a, a kind of feels like a blind bill until we are able to discuss it a little bit more. And I, I just think that's the right thing to do. So I urge my colleagues to please vote to circle.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to amend.

Um, I would like to insert on line after line 10 88 the additional language there, a section i, a subsection I that would read upon denial of an application, the board shall notify the applicant that they can appeal. And this is more than 10 words, which is why I wanted to circle. But at

Will you restate? So are you on line? 10 88. 10 88. And go ahead. We'll let, uh, staff will fi fix the grammatical and the proper, The board shall notify if they deny an application is the idea, and staff can work that out in 15 words, then let's go. But the point is that at the very least, if they're going to deny an application for a free speech event, they should be notified that they have the right to appeal.

So on 10 88, the board sh or upon denial of an application, the board shall notify the applicant of the right to appeal the decision.

Yes. I, I think I did. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

No. So the, we, the amendment we have is upon denial of an application, the board shall notify the applicant of the right to appeal.

My motion. Thank you, Representative

Yeah, I think that's a friendly amendment. I think that's a good addition. Makes the bill a little better. So, uh, I'd be supportive of that.

I'll wa I'll place the motion to amend.

Yeah, this is, uh, really is a cleanup bill. This section hasn't been touched for a long time. It's, uh, how, uh, legislative management committee works, uh, in, in our behalf and also in behalf of how the Capital Preservation Board works. And so I'd urge your support of the bill.

That's an order we'd like to speak to it. Yes. So this does four things. First of all, it makes, uh, the president and speaker as vice chairs of the Capital Preservation Board. If the governor is absent from the meeting, either the president or the speaker will chair the board. And if the governor and one of the vice chairs is absent, the remaining vice chair will chair. If a designee attends a capital Preservation Board meeting on the governor's, president's, or speaker's behalf, the designee can cannot chair. That's what the substitute does.

Uh, just, uh, appreciate adopting the substitute.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Pro Tim. So, uh, what this, uh, substitute does is it updates and clarifies the policy and concerning the general legislative branch administration, including policies concerning procurement, workplace discrimination, the intern program, legislative records, and others, uh, some of the key points is it clarifies that, uh, the LMC oversees workplace harassment and the discrimination policy. It modifies the LMC Quorum requirements to be consistent with other legislative committees. It also modifies the LMC meeting requirements to eliminate any unnecessary meetings. Uh, they do that by meeting quarterly. It clarifies the oversight of branch wide internal administrative manners, uh, and it also, uh, eliminates the LMC subcommittee on oversight. Previously, the subcommittee met in the fall to approve legislative budgets that, uh, now has been moved to the Executive Appropriations Committee. The subcommittee has also received performance majors from legislative staff offices. Those performance majors now go to the full legislative management committee. It also provides that LMC policy governs the general council's representation of legislative clients and for improved readability. It moved it into its own section. The legislative general council's responsibility to correct technical errors and legislation and the Utah Code, and it slightly narrows the General Council's authority, but is almost identical. It also eliminates the obsolete publishing requirements of the legislature. Um, when I was a page in the Idaho legislature, we had bill books and all that kind of exciting stuff that had to be maintained on our desks. Obviously now we are all computerized. It, uh, repeals a provision governing legislators attendance at meetings. These provisions are now in legislative rule. It updates the definition of legislative procurement and it in, uh, to include the House Senator, a staff office of the legislature. It eliminates reporting requirements. And then it clarifies the State Capital Preservation Board's responsibilities when promulgating certain rules to regulate activities on Capitol Hill. So that would be, uh, for example, time, manner, and place, uh, that becomes, uh, part of the Capitol Preservations Board's responsibility. Um, this bill also provides that, uh, the Capital Preservation Board, uh, promulgates. A rule does not restrict LMC from adopting a similar policy on behalf of the legislature. It directs the executive director of the Capital Preservation Board to notify and consult with the Speaker and president. When a person appeals a denial of a requested activity in the legislative area and it provides that a bill summary created by legislative staff members is not part of the legislation. And with that, uh, Mr. Speaker Pro tem, that's what this bill does.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Pro Tem. I motion to circle Motion is to circle, we'd like to speak to it. Yes, I would. Um, as I was looking through this, I feel like I probably need more looking through this because it looks like that in this bill, what we're doing is we're transferring power from the capital Preservation boards over to the Legislative Management Committee line, uh, 1051 to 1054. It talks about a transfer of powers there and whose decision can supersede the others. It also talks in there about not having to meet as often, which I think decreases potentially transparency and accountability. So I feel like we need to look at this and make sure this is really the direction we want to go. And I'm hoping that my colleagues will vote to circle this bill so that we can all take a little bit closer look at it and make sure this is a direction we really wanna head.

I'd resist that motion. This, the, the lines that, uh, the good representative's talking about. Uh, by meeting less, it actually is trying to solve a problem that we have by having to have the LMC meet in order to solve different issues that are going on and, and allows the Capital Preservation Board to be able to act on those issues.

Thank you Mr. Speaker ProAm. I would sec second the motion to circle. Um, I have concerns about some lines in the bill as well. 10 18 to 10 21. I asked the drafting attorney to clarify and she said that she would need some time to, to look into it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, could I reserve the right to make a motion?

Well, you wanna make, I wanna reserve the right to make a motion.

I'm trying to understand, and I did look at this earlier and then as it's so busy, we, I had didn't have time to reach out. So I apologize that this is happening on the floor on lines 10 52 through 10 78. The intention there, I think you stated, but, but please clarify for me, is to allow the Capital Preservation Board to handle decisions regarding free speech events. Could you clarify that for me please?

So time, manner in place is, uh, the way that you regulate, um, different communication activities on a particular site. So we're talking about the capital here. Obviously you have a lot of different groups who utilize the capital grounds. And so time, manner in place is, is the legal way that you can actually direct people to what times they can use the capital, how they use the capital, um, and, and then allows them to, to regulate that activity so that it's, as long as it's consistent with the capital grounds that they can do that.

Thank you. I I probably didn't ask my question clearly enough. And so I'm gonna re-ask the question a little differently. Representative Peterson, will you yield to another question? Sponsor yield. Thank you. So this language is giving new authority to the Capital Preservation Board to make decisions and determinations on free speech events. I understand the time, manner, place, the, the Supreme Court, the, the case law surrounding that. What I'm asking is this gives authority to the Capital Preservation Board to make those determinations, yes or no?

Uh, that's my understanding, yes.

Okay. And this, this is my concern and I apologize that this is happening on the floor, but I recently reached out to the Capital Preservation Board to reserve some time for a prayer caucus. And I was told that my request was denied because of separation of church and state. That is a direct quote. I nearly dropped the phone. Um, very concerning that we are now basically giving over to the capital preservation board power to make those determinations. And I would just caution, I would like to have some more conversations about this. So I would support the motion to circle. At this point, I don't necessarily want to amend, 'cause I know this was carefully negotiated, but I also have serious concerns about this language. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker ProAm. I, I just, uh, I also have concerns. I I look at the section, uh, beginning on, uh, line 3 72 where it says that the Office of Legislative research and General Counsel under the direction of general counsel shall review, examine and correct any technical errors. I I, I just worry that, uh, we might be getting into space. That's, I, I, I, I think it's a good idea to circle and and to look at this. Thank you.

for summation on the motion to circle Well, I think that it's pretty clear that there are things that people Have questions about in this bill, and I think it's only prudent that we only pass something that we know what it is. And, and I don't think that the Capital Preservation board and the legislative committee or management committee, whatever they're called, I don't think that's something that we're all super familiar with. And so this is like a, a kind of feels like a blind bill until we are able to discuss it a little bit more. And I, I just think that's the right thing to do. So I urge my colleagues to please vote to circle.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Motion to amend.

Um, I would like to insert on line after line 10 88 the additional language there, a section i, a subsection I that would read upon denial of an application, the board shall notify the applicant that they can appeal. And this is more than 10 words, which is why I wanted to circle. But at The represent, this will be good news. You got 15 words. Okay, well if that works, then let's do it. Will you restate? So are you on line? 10 88. 10 88. And go ahead. We'll let, uh, staff will fi fix the grammatical and the proper, The board shall notify if they deny an application is the idea, and staff can work that out in 15 words, then let's go. But the point is that at the very least, if they're going to deny an application for a free speech event, they should be notified that they have the right to appeal.

So on 10 88, the board sh or upon denial of an application, the board shall notify the applicant of the right to appeal the decision.

Yes. I, I think I did. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um, that 16 words representative

No. So the, we, the amendment we have is upon denial of an application, the board shall notify the applicant of the right to appeal.

My motion. Thank you, Representative

Yeah, I think that's a friendly amendment. I think that's a good addition. Makes the bill a little better. So, uh, I'd be supportive of that.

Representative Peterson for summation. Yeah, this is, uh, really is a cleanup bill. This section hasn't been touched for a long time. It's, uh, how, uh, legislative management committee works, uh, in, in our behalf and also in behalf of how the Capital Preservation Board works. And so I'd urge your support of the bill.

Senator Macl. Thank You. I move to Concur. Explain the changes. Yeah, There was just some technical changes in the end, end of the language that the House added. Working with our, our staff. The, the bill's, just the legislative management committee bill and it codifies what, what we do there. So that's what it does and I'd urge support.

Senator Vickers Baldy Lewin Rammer Bus Aye. Bill Lamore. Escamia Aye. Fillmore Grover. Aye. Harper Kins. Aye. Ipson Johnson. Aye. Quan McKay Mikel Aye. Milner Ipson Milner Musselman Owens Pitcher Pitcher Plum Rebi Sandal Stevenson Stratton Vickers Weiler Wilson Winterton.