S.B. 197 Transportation Funding and Governance Amendments: transcript

Thank you very much, uh, Mr. Chair and Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be before you. Again, I make a habit of this. I just love the transportation committees, both House and Senate. Um, back in from 2015 to 2017, there was a study of, uh, how to improve transit within the, the state of Utah. Do you want, do you wanna pull that mic a little closer? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. There was A study of how to improve transit in the state of Utah. We made some recommendations that not only helped the, a large public transit district, meaning UTA, but some of the smaller ones in, uh, uh, in, uh, other counties like Cash, Wasatch, Summit, Washington, uh, UN, counties like that. One of the re big results of that was as we decided to do a novel experiment, which was not done in any other, uh, state or transit district within the United States. That was to go through and, and change from what we had, a large board with a director appointed by the board to, uh, an executive director and three transit, uh, trustees, board of trustees. Uh, we put that in place in a bill that, uh, representative, then Representative Schultz and myself ran in 2017. It, uh, triggered shortly thereafter, and we've been operating with that ever since. In the last year, uh, myself and the good chair of, of, uh, this committee have been talking to a number of stakeholders, looking to see, has that, uh, form, form of governance been working as effectively as we, uh, had anticipated and hoped. Uh, the results came back. And even a study from, uh, a group in Denver looking to change their, uh, transit district governance came back and said, it's a little bit cumbersome. To be clear, we've had three really good, uh, trustees who put their heart and soul into this, but it's been a little bit clunky sometimes to figure out who of those four you go through and, and, and talk to. So, based on that, and in discussion with a number of, of stakeholders, uh, the Senate Bill 1 97 goes through and, uh, and changes the form of governance for UTA. And I think this is very important. The key point is, is that over the last few years, we put in over a billion dollars of new money into UTA. Um, there is, uh, hundreds of millions of more dollar, more state dollars going into UTA. In order to enhance that, we really have to have a critical backbone with the front runner, uh, going up, up and down, um, between, it's gotta go from Box Elder clear down to Payson, um, and that is the plan. And we've gotta have the funding for that. It's gotta be reliable, timely, and frequent. And then we need to have the other feeder systems going in park and rides, uh, tracks, buses that get people where they need to go, and to the, uh, the stations that are so critical that people up and down the, the Wasatch front. So this bill goes through and, and changes the form of governance to an executive director appointed by the governor, seven commissioners appointed by the speaker, the president, and the, and the governor. Um, it goes through and reallocates duties of, uh, of the not real. Yeah. It clarifies the duties of what the executive director, uh, will do. And it will also go through and change it from a three member board of trustees to a seven member transit commission as indicated, appointed by those three people with recommendations of advice and consent and things of the, uh, usual nature. The, I think this is going to put us in a much better shape as we move forward with transit along the Wasatch front, and I think it's gonna get us ready and people talk about the Olympics. We need to have this ready and up and, and more frequent for the Olympics, but more important for the quality of life in Utah. If you take a look at it, we have one major, you know, backbone in Utah for, uh, transit or for transportation running north and south. That's I 15. We want to have front runner as the transit backbone. And I think this enables us to get there and to have, uh, great utilization of our resources. That is, um, it, it, there's a lot of clarification duties and, and reportings and things like that. Procedures in the bill. The first substitute Bill does one other additional thing, and I'm sorry that Representative Roberts is not here because this bill incorporates his house Bill 5 85, that provides a new source of revenue to transit and incorporates it into this, uh, bill. So it's not just governing governance, it's now funding and governance. Ah, just right on queue. So the Good representatives house, bill 5 86 goes through and, uh, takes a portion 0.05% of the future growth of state sales tax and puts it into transit for ongoing funding. This is huge. As you may know, we have a lot of, uh, uh, we've had people going back to DC to see or cure additional funding for, from the federal government for, um, front runner. Uh, and we're, we're asking for quite a bit of funding there, but this bill goes through and gives us the actual funding that we need for expansion and operations with that 0.05. It goes through and, and starts out a little bit small. It's about, you know, $16 million and by the Olympics it'll be up to around 75 million. But that's a lot of new money that go, that's going in. So, Mr. Chair, the difference between the two bills is my grateful adoption of, of Representative Roberts bill into, into this one. And, uh, with that, that concludes my presentation.

Yes. Thank you, Juab. Just one question you just mentioned, uh, Senator, that, uh, $75 million in, I can't, was it 2034? What year Did you say that? About? About, yeah.

2034 is about somewhere between 73 and 75 million based on projections. Does does that mean that year or does that mean total Now and that No, that, that, that's projection when we capture the new growth, that means how much more money we'll be going into transit In. But in 2020, in 2034, it would be 74 $500. Correct. Yeah, about

That. Okay. Thank you.

Good afternoon committee members for the record. My name is Jay Fox. I'm the Executive Director of the Utah Transit Authority. Uh, just briefly, a, as our state continues to grow, uh, UTA is supportive of transportation infrastructure, growing along with it. At its heart, transit is about people, uh, transit is about moving their lives, their job opportunities, and the economic growth of their communities. And last year, UTA moved more than 40 million people. That's over 13 times the population of our entire state. UTA wants to express our gratitude to Senator Harper, Representative Christofferson, Representative Roberts, and to the entire Utah legislature for its recognition of transit's vital role in our state's future. Put simply funding transit is an investment in our state's critical infrastructure. That investment in transit is generational. And for Utah, it's even more than that. We are on the path, and forgive the pun, uh, to set the global gold standard for public transport when the world comes back to Utah for the 2034 Winter Olympic and Paralympic games. So, thank you on behalf of your constituents, those 40 million rides on UT's system for the planned and important commitment to transit. Thank you for investing in our community's vitality and growth. And thank you, uh, for being part of, of being an important part of UT's mission. We move you. Thank you,

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Carlos Eros, executive Director of the Utah Department of Transportation. I wanna speak in support from the Governor's office, from the Department of Transportation for this bill. We've worked closely with Senator Harper, Representative Christofferson, and while we believe currently today, UTA is a outstanding agency, we believe this next evolution for UTA will actually, uh, help it achieve even greater higher status. So we're excited to be able to work with our partners at the Utah Transit Authority to help create the Utah that we all deserve and all expect. So, thank you very much.

Yeah, it's a, um, we're, we have two very, very large projects. We're working on a lot of projects, but we're working on two very large ones. Um, I 15 reconstruction going north, $3 billion double tracking, front runner, uh, strategically double tracking, front runner, $3.2 billion. Currently, the state has invested, uh, between TTIF and direct appropriations from this, this body here at the legislature, $845 million towards that. Um, we are in, uh, we've put our application in with the Federal Transit Administration. Some, there's some weird, weird terms they don't wanna hear that there's some, uh, interesting terminology. We are requesting permission to enter into engineering phase. Now, we've been doing a lot of engineering on this project for years. Um, but we've put in our application, and what this means is this is the point at which the federal government will tell us how much money they will participate in on this project. And so on a large project like this, if, you know, if you do the math and how much money, I said we had 845, um, we're requesting about 74% of the pro, 74% of the total project costs be funded by the federal government. Now, that is a very, very high percentage. Um, we've been working at hard, Senator Harper alluded to folks going back to Washington. Um, I think I've made three trips in the last two months. Um, building relationships and helping folks understand how important this project is to the state of Utah. And we will find out in the next couple months where we, uh, how much money the federal government will invest. Um, we will then proceed into, um, over the next rest of the calendar year and around the November timeframe, we expect to, um, hopefully, um, apply for a full funding grant agreement with the government. And that's the, basically the final contract that we will have with being able to move forward. We already have a contractor on board, and we've been working with that contracting team to get to the price and identify all the risks. So the project's been underway for a long time. We're really at an exciting point right now. And, um, that's why the, the piece that, um, in this substitute for the additional TTF money, that is really important, not only for us to be able to look towards how we fund this existing project we're working on, but also as we look forward to the extensions that we want to do on Front Runner. This is just the first step in building this backbone for the state of Utah. And then looks

Um, so you, uh, both projects you mentioned those two big ones, the double track and the I 15 expansion, both of 'em about 3.2 billion. What do we get mile wise for those? I I know it's gonna be different. Sorry. Oh, boy. But, um, I don't know if anyone behind me has that number. Um, I, I had the graphic in my pocket this morning and I took it out and put it into my briefcase. So that's what I was looking for. Does anybody there know the, uh, mileage? No, I'd be making it up right now. So, uh, think about, could You tell me if that roughly, think About OG Ogden? Oh, no, no, no. So the double tracking of Front Runner, again, it's strategic, it's not fully double tracking. We're gonna start on the north up in Ogden, and we're going down to Provo. I 15 is gonna go from about sixth North going up to Farmington. Okay. Okay. That helps. And then, um, how, how, uh, I know the double tracking's important as we talk about Olympics. Yeah. How, how much will it be you? Is this We, how Much do we need this? That's my question,

Thank you. Um, great question. So I, I failed to identify really why we're doing this, the why behind this. So currently the current system, we can run UTA can run at best, 30 minute peak hour service, 60 minute off peak service. And we need that time period in the off peak to get the trains back on sequence. You know, every little bit they get outta sequence. We, the trains can't pass at those sections where we have double tracking right now, this will get us to 15 minute peak hour service, 30 minute off peak service. So if you think about, if you're gonna choose to take transit, do you'll look at a schedule and try to stress on getting there When the train is there at 15 minute service, you're not gonna have to think about a schedule. You're gonna show up and you're gonna be really close to whenever a train comes by. Yes, we really need this. When you think about I 15, really, the, the, the project we have going through Davis County, you know, we've almost built out as much as you can build an I 15 front runner will continue to meet that future travel demand that we will continue to see in Utah with our growth. That's really our future is being able to have that great transit system.

Can I ask you another question? Go ahead. First I'd say this, I know that I used to be the chair of the, of the Cache Valley Transit District, and I know that increasing, increasing usage is all about frequency. The frequency. Yeah. So, so this will, this will, and I would anticipate this is more than double 'cause more people will do it 'cause it's so much more accessible. Uh, my last question is, um, 40, 40 million rides, I think is what we heard. Um, how many unique people is that? Do we know? Boy,

40 million's a a huge number, but I just wonder if it's the same 10 people or what, you know who, who No, you wouldn't get the 10 people had up to 40 million. No, I can get that. I, we've done that in the past. The last time I did it was in one or last time we did, I should say was about two years ago. So I can bring, I can get that for you. Uh, it's, it is a significant number. I mean, you know, we have, we have a lot of people that are using our system. Uh, so it's certainly not just a small group. Could Could you give just a, a ballpark? I, I, I rather not guess. I really wouldn't. I, because I, 'cause we're, you know, I, I, I'm, I'm gonna tell you that it's, you know, uh, it, it's a sig. We have 2 million people here on the Wasatch front, and the use by our population here is, is pretty significant. So,

Yeah. Could you, before we have the vote, could you find the number for me and text it to Me? Or I can, I, I can get a back of the envelope for you.

If I could follow up representative.

Yeah. It's about right now it's about a lane. It's about a lane of traffic. I mean, and actually UD actually has a graphic on it. So at the peak, that's what we're taking off the road. Yeah. And so double tracking, Double virtually Another lane, Maybe another lane. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. And, and, and to your point about frequency driving, uh, ridership, you know, going to 15 minute frequency is, uh, you know, vastly improves. It's a game changer. Yeah. Yeah, I would.

And we're, we're already getting, I mean, we're, we're over 80%, uh, in the peak on, um, capacity. On capacity. Capacity. Yeah.

If you could find that number for me. Yeah, I'd, I'd really appreciate That. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Chairman, I have been given the numbers. Oh, please do, Carlos. Okay. Thank you. So the I 15 jobs, 16 miles long, the amount of miles of double tracking would be 30.

Is this for Carlos representative? Yes, go ahead. There we go. Thank you. So what, uh, does this do for first and Last Mile? How do we, how do we deal with that issue? Is that treated anywhere in this? Because if we're increasing capacity point to point, but you can't get there and you can't get from the termination point to where you need to go. What? Help me understand that. Yeah, Mr. Chairman, please do.

So, um, the Front Runner project is that backbone. I think if you go back to the underlying bill that Senator Harper and, uh, representative Christopher Center running, talking about the evo, the next evolution of UTA, that's where you look at that organization being able to help address that first and last mile. I can tell you, you know, we've been working with UTA and we in Utah County, we're about to, I think March Jay, um, we're gonna roll, roll out a ride service type of program through the VIA program. And we're both gonna be partners in that to help provide that first last mile connection. And that's an area we're gonna have to continue to work on.

Okay. And then, you know, I hate to bring it up, but you probably can, can know where I'm going with this, that, you know, we're, we're gonna hit it 1.2 trillion in interest at the federal level this year, and within three years, projected to be $2 trillion in interest and Social Security Trust fund going to zero in five years. And, you know, all of that. And, and no single snowflake ever would admit that it caused the avalanche. How do we, how do we reconcile that, Mr. Chairman, please? That,

that's a, um, that's a difficult question for a simple engineer to try to answer representative. I will tell you that my philosophy is they've got money in a program, and if they're gonna give that money to somebody, I want to make sure it comes to you, Utah.

Yeah. Yeah. And everybody else in America does the same thing, and then we'll be at 50 trillion is the dilemma. Right? Yep. Okay. All right. No, I Appreciate it. Thank you.

Perfect. Thank you Mr. Chair. Members of the committee. Cameron Dill, executive Director of the Utah League of Cities and Towns. We had two core principles as we evaluated both SB 1 97 and House Bill 5 86 that are now being merged in front of you today. Core principle number one was, uh, robust local involvement in whatever the future of the Utah Transit Authority was going to look like. And principle number two was to improve the amount of state funding that's going into transit in general. Uh, the, the bill that you have in front of you accomplishes both of those objectives. Uh, Senator Harper and Representative Christofferson and others on this committee, and Representative Roberts and others. We've worked for years around, uh, transportation and transit funding and really that partnership between state government, local government, and others. And, and Mr. Chair, I'm actually gonna address a couple of the questions that came up a moment ago. 'cause I think it's important context of what this bill can mean. So there was a question and you referenced, uh, Representative Peterson, your, your experience in Cash Valley. Uh, the Transit Transportation Investment Fund, the TF is not just about UTA, uh, the, the TTIF is an opportunity for state partnership with transit districts and transit agencies from Cache Valley up north to Tran down south, the High Mountain and Park City Transit on the Wasatch back, um, to even the shuttle service that exists in the UN basin. And last year, the, the Transit Transportation Investment Fund had 38 proposals come before them, but only five were fully or partially funded. What this bill would do is it provides that opportunity for some additional funding, uh, that partnership between state and local governments to say, can we get more transit backbone build out, whether that's front runner in the UTA area or additional bus service in Castle Valley Transit or somewhere else. Likewise, the question arose about first mile and last mile, and it's local governments are up to that task of building that out. And whether it's downtown Ogden or it's, uh, centers in West Jordan or anywhere in between, we're seeing local governments that are proactively planning what are called stationary plans that help bring that connectivity of, and that first, last mile connection to make it easier for people to ride. But at the end of the day, really what drives ridership is the increased frequency, and that frequency means increased funding. So from a local government perspective, our two priorities here were the Loa robust local involvement in the state funding. I've mentioned the state funding piece that this bill achieves. The other thing on the local, on the robust local involvement is that, uh, Senator Harper accepted several of our amendments to ensure that this new age of UTA from the commission to executive Director, um, all the way through, is connecting and collaborating with local government leaders, with mayors, with councils, with counties, with cogs, and with NPOs, so that we're all working together to expand the service and expand that network. So thank you for the opportunity to present.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, Andrew Gruber. I'm executive director of the Wasatch Front Regional Council. I will echo the thanks for Senator Harper, Representative Christofferson, Representative Roberts for working on transportation issues, uh, so diligently over all of the years. Um, we're strongly supportive of this bill as well. Uh, in part because of the general recognition it gives to the importance of transit as part of our overall transportation system. As we continue to grow, and particularly in the UTA area where we have a limited room to grow, we cannot absorb all of our future travel demand with people driving alone. If you wanna be able to drive, you should be able to do so safely and can conveniently, but the more people that can be off the road, not driving means less traffic congestion for you. And that's where transit comes in, being able to provide options for people, choices for people if they want, if it is the best choice for them to take transit benefits. The entirety of our transportation system, you know, that Utah is nationally recognized. We were the first state in the nation to have a unified transportation plan, which comprehensively identifies all of the multimodal needs for investment in transportation. And so this bill recognizes the importance of transit as part of that system, and then also, as noted, provides additional funding in the future in what I think is a very reasonable way. It's only if and as the economy grows that a portion, a modest portion of that growth would be reinvested back into our infrastructure. I think it's a virtuous cycle, if you will. The economy grows, we reinvest in infrastructure, the things that help us to have mobility and access and a thriving economy. Um, the last thing I'll say is I wanna express appreciation for the three trustees at, at UTA. They've done a great job at gotten UTA to the point that it's at now, and I think the structure will be very productive as we go forward with the new, uh, structure as with, uh, J Fox as the executive director. Thank you very much.

Yeah, thank you, Andrew. Um, could you just comment briefly on the Rio Grande plan and if, does that fit into this? Is that just a pipe dream or would it be helpful? And what do you think about that?

Well, you ask questions about front runner, which isn't directly addressed by this bill, and now you're going slightly even further afield with that question. Um, the, the Rio Grande plan is something that, um, is, is being considered by, uh, a very, uh, active and organized set of, uh, constituents. And we applaud their engagement and their perseverance that is not now part of the official transportation plans. There is an analysis that's happening, uh, led by Salt Lake City. It's called the, we Connect West East Connect, that's looking at a whole variety of options to improve connectivity within Salt Lake City and downtown. And the Rio Grande plan is also something that, that we're evaluating at a general level in the broad transportation plans. So it's not yet in the transportation plans. Uh, that's something that could be explored as we go. Uh, further, this bill does not would only, so TTF funding only goes for projects that have gone through the planning process and are in phase one, uh, of the plan. So we only invest money in projects that have been through that thorough process.

Thank You, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, I'm curious if we pass this and go down this road, how much of future growth will we have already, uh, committed to future legislatures? Are you talking about the funding in this bill? Correct. So if, if we're committing future growth, It's 0.05% of the FU state sales tax future growth, And, and, and then we've done that on future growth for other things.

Yeah. I'm just, I'm just curious. Transportation. There's, uh, some other programs. I don't know what the percentage is. Okay. Yeah, I'd just be curious to know, you know, with this, how much future growth have we already, you know, committed to future legislatures that, you know, essentially we would tie the hands of future legislatures on future growth? I just would, would like to know what that looks like.

Go ahead, please. It's just that I understand that. But if we have projects that, forgive the analogy, if it, if we're already pregnant in certain transit projects, it would be hard to redirect that going forward. And I just think it would be responsible to know how much we might be, uh, committing going forward to, to, uh, to look at that. But I, I appreciate the, the insight on that.

So, on that question, so what it is is 5% of future growth or 0.05. So it's 5%, uh, based on estimates of growth. So in 2028, it'd be 16 million, 20, 29, 20 5 million, 20, 30, 30 3 million. It keeps moving up based on projected revenues in 2035, it'd be like 82 million. So that's kind of, that's kind of the pattern just based on estimates.

Okay. Thanks. Um, I am grateful to be here today. I'm Mary Catherine Perry. I'm the Executive Vice President of Public Policy and Government Affairs for the Utah Chamber. And want to take just a second to represent the, the business communities, um, appreciation for your work on this. Um, today the Chamber offers its support of SB 1 97, as well as HB 5 86. We're grateful for Senator Harper, Representative Christofferson, Representative Roberts, and all of your work on both of these major and very significant transportation bills. Um, first we also want to sincerely thank the current UTA board who we have engaged with as a chamber in a very significant way over the years. Um, governing a system of this size and complexity requires significant time, expertise, and commitment, and we're so grateful for the work that they've done on behalf of Utah. We also want to thank UDOT as well as WFRC, um, for their coordination and long-term planning as well. Thank you to the legislative leaders who've continued to prioritize transportation funding. That partnership is essential as Utah grows from the business community's perspective, transportation has and always has been foundational to our economic success. Employers rely on strong transit and infrastructure systems to connect their workers to jobs, to move goods efficiently and support continued expansion through the Utah Chambers, Utah Rising Initiative. Um, we have consistently emphasized the importance of coordinated long-term infrastructure planning. Transportation investment is central to that vision. We appreciate the leadership reflected in these bills, and we support the efforts that strengthen governance and provide reliable forward-looking transportation funding for our state's future. Thank you.

Did you want me to respond Real quick on The, Oh, you have the answer to Representative Peterson's question.

Have, I have, this is very back envelope Representative Peterson, so, and it is not an official number, so I'm sorry. I'm gonna gonna CYA my on real quickly. Uh, we are doing, by the way, a utilization study right now. So, uh, hopefully by the end of the year we'll have, um, a little bit more around this. Remember, we, we, even though we're ticketed, uh, a lot of those tickets are not identified directly to Apes individual person. Also, we have plenty of people during the year that might touch our system once or twice, uh, for particular events for their visitors out of town. Uh, but based on, uh, just a total number of 40.5 million, the population of the Wasatch front, you're looking at somewhere probably between 750,000 to a million, uh, unique users. All right. Thanks.

Uh, norm Blesson, I represent the Amalgamated Transit Union, local 3 82. We represent the workers at UTA, the bus drivers, the mechanics, the parts guys, all those guys. And we've had some things with this bill. We wanna know where it says that they're gonna do more with the day to day. What does that mean? Right now, we're not getting any day to day. We don't, they don't talk to us. There's hundreds of thousands of dollars that have been paid out that shouldn't have been because they wouldn't work with us. So that's what we're wanting. What do we do? Who is this gonna help that, or is it not? I mean, that's the bottom line for us. You know, I think a lot of this other that everybody said is great. You know, the more money that's great for everybody. We can help get more money from our international 'cause they lobby at DC also. But if nobody works with us, you know, I don't know. Nobody will even talk to us. Does that conclude your remarks?

Yes. Um, motion to adopt sub one for SB 1 97.

Um, I'll defer to the sponsor.

Thank you. It's what, what I explained earlier with the addition of, of the good chair's, uh, bill into mind.

Yes. I move that on line 8 67. We strike the word board and replace it with the word Commission. Okay. 8 8 76. 8 76. Sorry. Okay, the motion is on line 8 76 to strike the word board and replace it with commission.

I can, do you want me to, I move that we favorably recommend, uh, first sub SB 1 97 As amended. Okay.

Yeah, I would. I want to thank all the stakeholders and everyone who's come together. I know that there has been a lot of conversation about the best way to move forward, and I know that, um, there have been a lot of people who have spent time in figuring out how they can best address the concerns of the public, how to, um, improve transit in Utah. And I hope to the, uh, worker over here who shared, I hope that this new governance structure will actually serve to benefit you because I think it's going to streamline and, and help things across the board. Um, and as far as the substitute, I am thrilled with it. Um, we have some very forward thinking people in the past who created our transportation investment fund, and this builds on that and will certainly help us in the future, um, to build the transit that we most definitely need. Um, so I appreciate you including that in your bill. I think it'll be an important piece in our future generations will thank us for doing it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is it okay for me to ask a question? Sure. Okay. Um, I am wondering what the difference between a transit district and a transit commission are, and does either or both of those have taxing authority

Transit Transit district, large public transit district is UTAA small public transit district. It'd be cas, sun Transit High Valley, uh, transit Park City. Those are the transit districts. Those are the operating systems. Transit Commission would beat commission is the seven member who would be replacing the three member board of trustees patterned after the UDOT Transit or Transportation Commission. So we've modeled what, what is successful in UDOT and moving it over to UTA. Okay. And no, they do not have taxing authority. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I also want to echo Representative Fay's comments regarding the involvement of the employees. And, and hopefully the sponsor can address that in his summation as well. I, I do think that sometimes we create leadership structures or oversight structures that don't connect all the way to the people who have the great ideas for efficiency. And so maybe in your summation, if you, if you wouldn't mind just addressing that, um, how this, how you envision this involving the people on the front lines and their brilliance and their great ideas for being part of the organization as well. So that's my only comment. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. Um, I, I think the project is, is great. I, I, I wish we had a magic wand to, to make it happen. Um, Representative Defay comments particularly struck me that, um, I, I, I hope that future generations would thank and be thrilled and pleased with this. But I, I remain very concerned that we're doing this project on the checkbook of future generations. And, you know, we had a, a federalism commission meeting in November that we listened to three hours of federal budget experts telling us that we're three to five years away from, you know, some kind of dollar implosion federal finance reset because it's, you know, G-A-O-C-B-O, all of them tell us it's unsustainable. And so, I, I, I think I may be a no vote. I hope I'm the only no vote, but that is the basis of my no vote. I'm, I'm concerned that we continue to write checks on our children's future that we don't have the ability to, to pay for. And, and, and we all just think if there's federal money, we're gonna get ours and everyone thinking the same thing. And we continue to have the deficits grow exponentially, the interest grow exponentially. And so I think I, I appreciate the work. I think it's wonderful. I wish we had a pot of money to actually pay for it. So, uh, that's, uh, uh, I think it would be great if the money was there. So thank you.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much for bringing this. I know Murray's a big hub when it comes to UTA and I just wanna be able to get to Utah County, so for work. So thank you so much for bringing this forward, and I know it took a lot of work. And again, I hope the union has some play in here and we can figure that out as well. Thank you.

Thank you. I truly appreciate the good questions from this committee. And the, uh, wonderful remarks of the different stakeholders have actually spoken with some of the union folks and stewards. Uh, they've expressed, uh, some of their concerns that they did here and other things I have shared that with, uh, with the, uh, UTA administration. I believe this bill will go through and be more responsive now. And, uh, you know, you've got some great employees that are out there. I'm hoping that we can hire a whole bunch more because that is a good organization for for transit. As to represen or Representative Ivory's comments, this bill in and of itself is fiscally restrained and responsible. This is changing the governance, and I think it will relieve a couple million dollars of administrative overhead that we have right now in UTA and be able to invest that into employees and expansion of service. The only funding increase in this is the increase in the sales tax, which is controlled by us, which means that we can direct, you know, as, as legislature through this whole process where that money is spent. So regardless of, of, you know, what the federal government does, even if we don't get the, the money that's asked for, for, uh, from the federal, uh, transit Authority Federal Highway, we'll still be able to operate and expand the system here and improve service. So I think it's, uh, fiscally constrained within itself. Beyond that, I think it's the right thing to do going forward. We have to make sure that we are prepared for, uh, the growth in the state. We need to have alternate transit and, uh, alternate transportation modes to roads, because if we keep building at the rate we are right now, it will cover up most of the valley. We need to go through and have narrower, fast running, uh, transit. And I think this will go through and do it, and will also enable us to have better, uh, transit via buses, tracks, and other modality. With that, I'd urge your support of this bill.

Ahead. Thank you very much. Transportation funding and governance amendments is the result of a, uh, interim study, well, not an interim study. A, a project that, uh, Representative Christofferson and I did starting back in June where we met with stakeholders, evaluated the administration and the management of of UTA. We, again, took a look at what's happening in other, uh, transit districts. We looked at studies from, uh, Denver and other stakeholders that looked at the current governance of of UTA. As you know, uh, Representative Christofferson and I and Speaker Schultz have sponsored champion legislation in the past to support the success of transit. State level investments in transit are at an all time high, and you'll see additional resources being requested. Again, this legislative session over the last, uh, four years, Utah has invested more than $1 billion of new money into transit. And I wanna make clear that, that we cannot build enough roads to handle all the transportation needs in the state of Utah. Transit has to be reliable, it has to be timely, and it has to be responsive to the needs of all areas within the, uh, uh, UTA transit, uh, service area. In 2018, when we trained over to the board of trustees, UTA has secured its position as a distinguished example of National transit, uh, industry. The, uh, the, uh, challenge, the, uh, achievements that have been made includes hiring a very knowledgeable and capable executive director, refining internal policies, navigating the challenges of COVID while rebuilding RI ridership much better than almost every other transit district in, in the country. Opening new bus BRT lines and working to improve public trust. This bill goes through and repeals the existing structure of large public transit district, which is UTA and creates a, the, a new organization that consists of an executive director appointed by the governor and seven transit commissioners patterned after what We have the same organization and format that we have with udot that works so well, an executive director, seven transit commissioners. Those transit commissioners are appointed by the governor, the speaker and the president, uh, based on recommendations and in consultation with the stakeholders within the transit district. Um, it repeals the local advisory council, and I want to thank the local advisory council. They have done a wonderful, wonderful job. But I believe, and in talking with other stakeholders, this will position UTA to move forward and better respond to the growth within the, the communities of the Wasatch Front. We can throw in there the Olympics, but the Olympics, uh, you know, is a, you know, short, short shot time period. This is for positioning UTA to be more nimble and to be more responsive to its stakeholders, to its employees, and to the different communities who go through and fund. And, and basically that's what this bill does, is just change it to this nor new organization.

Correct. One executive director and a and they have a transportation commission. This would be a transit commission meets monthly, has a set slate of duties that they, that they deal with. All the other day-to-day opera operations are housed within the executive director, and he runs the day-to-day, they set the policy and approve the budget.

Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just, um, I noticed here it said something like, uh, no elected officials can be on this. And I was just wondering the why that is, Since we patterned this after the, uh, UDOT Trans or Udot Transportation Commission, that's a rule that they have. And in talking with stakeholders, this appears to be a point of disagreement.

Okay. I've got some other people who do the appointments or that feel like that would be a good thing. Other people feel like we should be allowing everybody. There is a, if you put somebody on that's an elected official, they've got some background, they've got some experience, but they also have a constituency. And does that create a conflict? Yes or no? If you have people who are, um, you know, in the private sector with the different expertise levels that are called down on the bill, is that better? And so that's, I there was a call and discussion, actually lots of calls and discussions over the last couple weeks on how it would be, and we just kind of fell a little bit towards, no, let's not put that in. But as I've talked to elected officials as late as yesterday, they're still open to discussion on that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I'm looking at, uh, lines 3 71 and it says, two members appointed by the speaker, two members appointed by the Senate and, and then three members appointed by the governor. Are these gonna have, um, geographical connections to who's appointed? Um, sometimes when we change the makeup of a board, we, um, have a tendency to forget counties of the first class and representatives of counties are the first class. And, um, I know it seems like it's not political, but it kind of feels a little political that we are losing representation on some of these commissions and boards. So as the largest county and the only county of a first class, um, we do have a lot of transportation here. And I was wondering if there's any designation to make sure that Salt Lake County would have a person in this commission,

If you look going down on starting line 3 77 Davis Weber and the Box Elder County area will make nominations. Salt Lake County will make a nomination or make nominations in Utah County. So you do have those geographic areas represented. And also, if you take a look at line 3 72 and 3 74, the, the, the President Senate and the speakers shall in consultation with public transit stakeholders, that needs to be stakeholders on 3 72 within the public transit district. So they have to go and work with all the stakeholders to get names. So the intent is not to go through and pack it from one county, but to have representation throughout the transit district.

Thank you. So when you say that we get to nominate someone that's just in the pool of people, they might consider out of that geographical location, so it's not Correct. Okay. So you are so, so they can submit one or they could submit more. That's up to them. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I like the layout. Uh, it does give the locals more, say as far as, uh, nominating a person to be considered for those. And again, legislatively they could look at that list. The governor can look at that list. But if, and I can't see it right off, but this is in, uh, with consent of the Senate, correct?

Correct. Okay. Alright. Okay.

Mr. Chairman, I'm unmuted, I think. Okay, go ahead, Senator Ipson. Uh, I will, I like this. Uh, it, the format for udot has served us well. I think this will serve this well. I I'd be in favor of it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, my name is Kate Bradshaw. I am the Mayor of Bountiful, and I am president of the Utah League of Cities and Towns. And I wanted to let you know that the Utah League of Cities and Towns has not yet taken a formal position on this bill. Our legislative policy committees meets on Mondays in this bill numbered after our meeting this week. So we will be discussing it next week. However, we have already had some robust discussions with Senator Harper. Um, he has long been, uh, interested and invested in, in transit throughout his, his time up here at the state Capitol. And we very much appreciate that and appreciate the time he has afforded us to have the discussions that we've had and the discussions we anticipate we will continue to have with him, um, throughout the remainder of the session about this important bill and policy change. Transit is incredibly important to, uh, our cities up and down the Wasatch front, uh, in my region of the, of the state in Bountiful, uh, we've been working on a bus rapid transit line in, uh, south Davis County, uh, that has taken many years and many conversations to move forward, uh, with our neighboring cities and with our residents, uh, changes to how people move about their cities, how businesses move employees back and forth, um, and how those routes and things impact, uh, our local economies is really important. And so one of the things I would want to draw your attention to in which you have already noted in some of your discussion, is that the proposal would change, uh, the commission's composition. And we believe that the changes would elevate state representation and reduce local representation. And we have some concerns there that we have raised with, with Senator Harper and feel like we're having, uh, very good dialogue. So I want to assure you that he, he has met with us and we continue to have that dialogue and look forward to having more. But it is critically important to us in local government, um, that we have robust local involvement in the governance of UTA since it is intended to serve our local communities and needs to be connected, deeply connected, in our opinion, to local government. And with that, I'd love to, to turn, uh, the next opportunity to speak to this bill, to my, uh, fellow, uh, board member at the League of Cities and Towns, Troy Walker, um, mayor of Draper City and past president of the League of Cities and Towns.

Thank you for having us. And, um, it's, it's actually really refreshing to have someone like Senator Harper who, who puts his head down on this, on these issues and has done almost my entire time as elected official. I'm a bit of a relic. I was appointed to the UTA board by Becky Lockhart. So I served on UTA 0.1 and I lived through all that. Um, and then we Uintah this new form of governance in 2018, and things got a lot better for UTA. Um, our trustees that were appointed in the form of government changed there, made a big difference. And they've done mighty good work for us as locals. They've been invested in, in care about what happens in our communities. 55% of utas funding comes from local option sales tax implemented by the counties, um, as a local effect elected official, I have advocated and I, um, now I'm gonna be on the record for it for those tax increases because I believe, um, that transit is our future. We certainly cannot serve the needs of our growing community going forward without really good transit. Um, and we're at the point, the choke point. I live at the point of the mountain, so I can tell you there's no more room to make that freeway wider. Um, one of the great complaints is a local official about when any development happens is traffic. We're all traffic, we all drive. Um, but an opportunity to get you off the road in a reliable, efficient, quick, uh, well planned out transit system is the future. And so as we look forward, I, I think this yet new change in UT's governance is just putting us in an even better position to serve the needs of our community going forward. Um, it's visionary. I think it, and I know there's some people don't like transit and they think it's too expensive and build more roads and all those things, but this is something that can make it, that will make the difference for our community, for our children and grandchildren as we go forward. Um, I applaud, uh, Senator Harper looking to make it more efficient. I also applaud the fact that the state is getting more involved and has been, but as the state becomes more involved in transit as the whole, in addition to the road system, we all benefit. And this opportunity with this change of governance puts us in that good position. And so I'm excited for it, and I think it's visionary and we're looking forward in a way that makes a difference for us.

I wanna make sure that Perfect. Um, my name is Frederick Jenny. I'm here in a personal capacity, just a resident in Salt Lake City. I want to thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak. I also want to thank the bill sponsor for bringing this bill forward. Uh, I'm a transit advocate. I really wanted to come here to show support of s sp 1 97, because I really like the idea of, essentially from what I saw, a volunteer committee made up of Utahans and one executive director who is, has a vision and can create a well, uh, a very good and efficient transit, uh, agency. This also ensures that the people's voice can be heard on a more consistent basis. So I want to ask that the committee move the, um, this bill to the Senate floor so that we can make the Utah Transit Authority even better. Thank you. Thank You.

Okay. Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Carlos Eros, executive director of the Utah Department of Transportation, I wanna speak, um, in favor of this bill as well as the governor's office is speaking in favor of this bill as well. Um, I'm a road guy, at least I started as a road guy and now I'm becoming a transit guy and a trails guy. And I can tell you that with the way Utah's growing and the way we're gonna continue to grow, we cannot keep up with the needs out there for transportation with just roads. We need transit. We need world class transit. And we're so excited that we've been able to partner with UTA over the last, you know, seven, eight years. Um, and we've been partnering for over 30 years in, uh, in all the projects, but in a much more, I would say, proactive way. And we've become true advocates of transit. I wanna acknowledge the hard work and the dedication that the trustees have served, provided to the state of Utah. Um, they're amazing people and they took an agency that was in bad need of having to build up some trust. And they've, they've developed an agency that is trusted and respected around the country. And so I wanna say thank you for their service, if this, you know, as this bill moves forward, but we speak in strong support of this bill.

Guer. Thank you Mr. Chair, members of the committee. I'm Andrew Gruber. I'm executive director of the Wasatch Front Regional Council. I will add my voice to the chorus for the importance of transit for Utah's future. Um, it's actually a notable thing to have the director of a State Department of Transportation expressing how critical transit investment is in Utah's future. Uh, it doesn't work this way everywhere around the country, that there's so much collaboration between the different modes of transportation. But in Utah, we have a unified transportation plan that recognizes we need to provide choices to people in how they get around. And having the right structure in place for transit for UTA is essential to moving that forward for our economy, our mobility, and our air quality. Um, I also want to acknowledge trustees Christensen, uh, Arsen and, and Holbrook for their work, and thank them for it. And note that I think UTA is in good hands with, uh, Jay Fox as the executive director. We look forward to collaborating with them. And thank you to Senator Harper for his great work as well.

Okay, I'll move that We pass out Senate bill 1 97 with a favorable recommendation Discussion to that motion.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, and I would've made the motion too, but since you're, you're here, but, uh, just to, to say that, um, I appreciate the work that you, you've done on this and, uh, uh, to encourage you to continue to work with the Yeah. Yeah. Utah leagues of cities, cities and towns, and, um, that's what I, I support the motion.

Senator Rebe. Thank You, Mr. Chair. Um, I wanna thank the people that have worked with UTA. You definitely have made it a, um, more robust service. Uh, I would, I'm really interested in seeing what the league says I am. Um, I find it odd that we're going from a smaller board to a bigger board because that's not what we've been doing lately. So I, I'm just curious if that's gonna bring a betterment. Uh, whenever we talk about boards, we're always trying to shrink 'em instead of grow them. Uh, but I can understand why we're growing this one because we wanna make it more, uh, across. We wanna impact, we wanna create a, a bigger impact across the state and bring transit further. So, um, just really curious what the league says. So I hope that that conversation continues. So just a, a lot of questions here, but, um, I have faith in the sponsor that he will have good, good conversations, so thank you.

If, if you take a look at the, at the similar boards we had 15 years ago, we Uintah nine on the local advisory council, along with the three member board. Three member board is being replaced by a single individual. And then the nine member advisory, uh, committee is being replaced by seven member commission. So we are shrink, shrinking things down. The commission, I believe, has a set slate of tasks that they have to do, but the day-to-day operation is with a single individual.

uh, transit. Uh, we've had, uh, changes in governance. The last big one was in 2017, uh, we created a new form of governance that is not existing in any other transit district in the country. Um, that has worked well in some ways, not as well as what we had anticipated. So what we've done here is after, uh, nearly a, uh, a year long in, um, investigation and research we're, we're presenting here the opportunity to go through and, um, improve transit in the state of Utah in our large, large public transit district. What we're doing with this is retiring the, uh, three member trustees and replacing that with a full-time executive director and seven members of a transit commission pattern. After our very effective organization of the Utah Department of Transportation, uh, we've had the, the hiring of very knowledgeable and capable executive director. We go through and in this bill clarify, uh, the duties of the executive director. We go through and we clarify the duties of the new transit commissioners to where they're responsible to, uh, work with stakeholders, uh, with the people that appoint them. They're focused on maximizing this as a region wide service area, not focusing on this one area or this area, but going through and maximizing the investment that we have within the state of Utah. Uh, the state has put in over a billion dollars. The locals have put in several billions of dollars into this, and we're partnering up in order to maximize this. Mr. President, I do have an amendment that I'd like to, uh, pose at this time.

Yes. After, uh, sitting down with the, uh, the association governments, the League of Cities and Towns and other stakeholders, they wanted a little bit more clarification of what the duties of the transit commissioners are, uh, how they interact with the local entities, with their appointing personnel and with, uh, the different reports that they're required to do. And that that's what the, uh, amendment does.

I just think, uh, that this is a great, great step forward, especially as we want to maximize the investment as the state looks for partnering more, uh, as we prepare for the Olympics. And with that, I'm open for questions.

Yeah, Mr. President, I just, uh, make a comment. I would love to hear the sponsor's, uh, response during summation perhaps, or if he chooses to take this as a question to yield to. That's fine. My read of this bill is that it makes pretty substantive policy and governance changes, uh, to the way things have always been. And I guess I'm very curious that I haven't heard anything about it. Um, why isn't UTA reaching out to say this we do like or we don't like? Or why isn't the Department of Transportation engaging with Senator Vickers on this issue? And, and maybe it's because it's just so non-controversial that everybody is already on board and they all testified in support of it in committee, but I'm just curious as to the, the sponsor's take on that side of it.

question. Thank You. That's a great question. I've asked myself the same thing. Uh, we put this bill out. We anticipated a lot of, uh, public questions and comments. The response we got back was, we've made a change. It's not working as well as we wanted. We support this change. I mean, you haven't really seen anything in the press. Uh, all the, uh, local officials are saying yes, it's time for a change as well as a lot of, uh, uh, a lot of other stakeholders. So yeah, I don't have the answer. I just know that they seem comfortable with the way we're heading.

I have a, I guess a statement. Pardon me about the, I have a statement about the bill. Okay, Go ahead. So I I, it's weird that you haven't heard any opposition because my entire county, the second largest in the state is opposed to this bill. And, uh, they're concerned that it diminishes the role of local governments both in the county and city level. And the bill would change it, uh, from, it changes the executive director, uh, to be an appointed position that would report directly to the, to the governor, which removes local oversight and that circum complaint with the bill. So I just wanted that on the record. Thank you.

Thank you. And I appreciate the good, uh, Senator from, uh, Utah County. Um, that's why we made the, uh, the amendments today in conjunction with the League of Cities and Towns. There's still some discu discomfort about how people are appointed that, but, uh, overall, that is the only thing that I see as, as, and that, uh, those comments have come with the last, you know, they're fairly recent. That's why I sat down with the stakeholders the last couple days to come up with something that, uh, may involve the locals more. So with that, Mr. President, I would move that Senate Bill 1 97 as amended. Be read for a third time.

Thank you Mr. President. Motion to circle.

Senator Harper. Thank you. Motion to circle. We are waiting for a substitute

Thank you Mr. President. Uh, this bill, uh, prohibits the mo, the Division

Thank you. This is the, uh, reorganization and the improvement that is needed going forward with the, uh, uh, UTA administration goes through and, uh, uh, gives thanks to, uh, the three trustees who have served for, uh, nine years. But it puts, it puts, uh, UUTA under the structure that UDOT has with executive director and then seven transit commissioners. They have specific qualifications and duties for both the, uh, commissioners and for the director. I've worked hard on this to make sure along with Representative Christofferson, that this is the right move going forward to maximize the investment that, that we have in, uh, transit and the additional investments going on as we prepare for transit and for the Olympics. With that, I'm open for questions.

Thank you. I'd move that Senate Bill 1 97 pass.

Thank you. Motion to encircle Senate bill 2 37. We have a motion encircle Senate Bill 2 37 Driver's License Division and Motor Vehicle Division consolidation amendments.

Thank you. This goes through and,

Mme. Reed and Clerk first substitute Senate Bill 1 97 Transportation Funding and Governance Amendments by Senator Harper. This bill was heard in transportation with the vote of 11 1 0. The house sponsor is Representative Christofferson.

Thank you Madam Speaker Pro Tem. Um, I'd like to mo move that we adopt amendment number two.

Yeah. It, it just moves two dates to a later date so that it, uh, removes the fiscal impact.

Oh, I, I move that we adopt for motion Place.

Thank you. Um, so this deals with, uh, governance of, uh, UTA, uh, which is a large transportation, uh, infrastructure transportation district. And, uh, we've had for several years now, uh, uh, a body of, uh, three commissioners. And, uh, another body of, uh, I think it was nine, uh, trustee, uh, nine advisory counselors, uh, comprised of, uh, local representatives. And they didn't have a lot of authority, uh, in that advisory council. And the problem with the, uh, that we've been looking at with the commission is if there was a concern, nobody knew who to go to for answers whether to go to the, uh, director or one of the three commissioners. And as we got thinking about that, and they've, they've done a great job. All of 'em have done a great job and we appreciate what they've done. They've, uh, taken us, uh, you know, where we were, where they were. Uh, they didn't have too much involvement with state oversight to, uh, and they've transitioned where udot is now working with them. Uh, and, but we've gotten to a point where we feel like, uh, another model would be more effective. And, uh, we've looked at the transportation, uh, from the Department of Transportation for the model. And so what we wanna do here is still have a director for UTA and, and then have seven member, um, uh, seven, seven member commission with, uh, two members, uh, appointed by the Senate, two by the house, and then one each from, uh, local MPOs in, in, in each of the, uh, areas. And so, uh, we, a lot of the bill is going through the responsibilities of the director and, um, and the board. And so, so the, uh, the board will be, uh, part-time. They will get expenses paid, but it'll be a part-time, uh, board. And, uh, they'll have, um, local representation and then they'll work with the director. Um, part of the part of the bill is to say, you know, we want some fiscal responsibility and accountability too. So we want some planning to, uh, look at what the future li uh, what the future looks like. And so they'll be responsible for that. Some strategic strategic planning. Um, I guess the other, uh, big part of this is, uh, uh, funding, uh, measure. And that is to, uh, uh, have 5% of the, uh, new growth go to the transit to pay for some of the things like, uh, double tracking and other transportation needs. And, uh, that will be put into the Transit Transportation Investment Fund. So I think that covers it. If there there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer 'em.

Uh, I just think this will help us to, uh, to answer some of the needs we have in the future and, and keep UTA strong. Thank you.