S.B. 214 Home-based Childcare Solutions: transcript

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know we were upstairs trying to get all the bills, so I appreciate, um, the chair and, and the committee members' Time. Um, this, this bill is, is, it's a, it's a very simple bill as part of our, um, solutions to a very complex issue, which is our, our childcare, um, situations in, in our state. And there's not gonna be a, a, like a one silver per blood solution to this situation. And what's exciting, Mr. Chairman committee members, is that you're gonna see probably four bills, very focused, um, in a bipartisan way to try to find this, this, some of those solutions. This bill is focusing on home base. This is childcare at home where moms are taking, uh, care of their own children and they're, uh, looking for extra income and decide to be, to open the doors of their loving homes to other children. And this becomes a business model, which we love here in the state of Utah. So what we're trying to do here is creating a grant process to push more and get more accessibility. That's what the bill does. It, um, creates a grant process, and this is through a private public partnership with our philanthropic group, which you'll hear in a second from. And we're expecting to see hundreds of home-based providers, uh, be supported so they can open doors, like I said, in a loving way. We are focusing on childcare deserts, which is more mostly rural Utah. And we're also being very careful that when the grants are being distributed, that, um, they will take into consideration the ones that are already there in some areas where there may be accessibility, and there is may not be a childcare desert in some areas, but we're focusing where childcare deserts are. And with that, Mr. Um, chair, if it's okay, I will love to pass the time to my Cobra Center. Thank you.

Hi, I am Emily Bell McCormick with the Policy Project, and so grateful for Senator Escamilla, the incredible work she's done on this. Um, we spent, uh, the last few months looking at how we could really find solutions that honored the way that Utah likes to work, which is, we have a unique culture here where we have, we love to have a parent in the home raising their kids, but we also recognize that there is a big need for childcare in rural places. And so this was a, an exciting way to kind of solve for that. Our floor sponsor, res representative, er said, um, you know, she had this great quote. She said, families in rural Utah do not have a lack of willingness to work. They elect choices. Childcare is limited, distances are long, and parents are too often faced with an all or nothing change. And so as we looked at these, um, different, we, we actually got to visit some of these at home childcare facilities. There was one in Cedar City where, um, a mom said, this is such a cool way for me to lean in. I get to raise my kids at home while I get to take help, take care of other neighbors children so that they can work and provide for their families. So this, this bill really is a culmination of so many hours of conversations with families and stakeholders across the state of Utah. It's super cool. It's very innovative. We actually think other states will pro likely jump on board because it's a really unique way to meet match like the urban with the rural and care for it. It's very pro-family, pro economy. And like Senator Vickers said, we'll be, uh, doing a public private partnership on this, um, where donors will be, uh, matching some of the state dollars, which is really exciting. So we encourage your support of this bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair. That concludes our presentation. We're open for questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just, I mean, I just have a couple of questions. So when, when my kids were little and, uh, and my wife went back to work, they, they Uintah home-based childcare people that we knew, uh, mom who had room in her home and was raising her kids. Just exactly what you've described here. So it's been a few years, but I had this experience. Um, so I am curious about the grant piece of it. So, um, I'm not aware that any of the homes where we had our children cared for, had grants. And I'm not sure, um, what the grants are targeting or I, I can imagine, you know, buying toys or food or something, but I would've thought that was kind of what we were paying for when we paid for the childcare. And I'm wondering, you know, what's the, what's the buy-in Maybe if you're, if you're setting up one of these?

Let me, let me start. That's a great question, um, representative, and I'll start by saying it's from a business model, and I spent 14 years as a vice president for Science Bank helping small businesses. It's, it is one of those businesses where the margin is very small. It is, it's expensive to take care of children because it's very exhausting as you can imagine. We will probably, many of us have been parents here and recognize that part. So the grant, which is a, a, an amount $5,000 amount, but I'll let her explain more, is really focusing on a incentivizing actually more people to open their homes into this process. And, you know, for whatever situation they may need for some training on how to run a business. Many people wanna open a business, they just don't know, and they may want to take a class on, you know, some of our institutions, uh, or they wanna, you know, change some things at home to make some space for the kiddos, some toys. And those things do add up. And, um, I, but I I will say it is just to let them get, you know, excited and incentivize it is really an incentive. I mean, I think that's the correct word to use to get more of those spots available through, um, the village, right, the home base, the neighbor, the, uh, someone at church that we know. So it is, it is an incentive and, but it's mostly to pay some of the stuff and registration to an association. Maybe they wanna put, be part of an association and get, you know, their training. Um, they want to like, you know, if they will have to take a CPR class. So that's what we think is gonna be utilized for. But I'll let Emily add,

Yeah, we've been working with DWS on what this might look like. And just like any other startup business, there are expenses to having a business. And so in some cities and towns, it will be like, okay, your, your, um, your fence needs to be six F feet high. So we talked to some providers that were like, that would help so much just helping us pay for this part of our yard that isn't fenced in. Or getting certain things like you mentioned, even things like cribs, car seats, strollers, some of those basic things that you really need to be able to provide good care to small children. That's where we imagine most of this will go. But we do have, um, and I'm happy to share with you a list of, of things that, that grant could be applied for too.

Okay, thanks. So I see on the handout the number 5,000, which I heard Senator Escamilla say. So we're, we're saying like a 5,000 kind of seed money. That's that's the buy-in on these grants? Yeah, correct. Up up to 5,000. They'd have to meet like certain Um-huh. Itemized what, how they're gonna use the funds. They have to show how that's gonna be spent. That's right. Okay. So then we're looking at a thousand times that times 5,000. That's the mm-hmm. That's the RFA, That's the RFA. Okay.

Well, the RFA is for two point, um, 2.3, 2.3 million. That's what the fiscal note is. Mm. And the match will come from the, from the private sector. Oh, The other part. Okay. So It's 2.3 million, which is already, we have Senator Stevenson behind me already. Great. Listen, he knows in the funding process.

Thank you. Thank you, Senator. Thank

You. Thank you. I have a a a couple of questions. So today, uh, people can provide childcare on their home in an, on an unlicensed basis. Can you, this appears to require licenses to, to do this. Could you talk about Sure. About

That? So let me, that's a, that's a great question, Mr. Chair. So right now it's unregistered. So the, the thing we are adding in this bill is you have to register now for up to 10 children. So we are adding two kiddos in the policy, just to be clear. So right now, you're correct, you can take care with no registration whatsoever. And you don't even have to say you are taking care of kids, even though you are and having a business transaction relationship with the parents or the, the, you know, the guardians. This bill says, everyone now has to register if you're taking care of kiddos between four and 10, it used to be eight, now we're adding two more children on the registration base if you're gonna, uh, and that will include a criminal background checks and fingerprints because, um, unfortunately right now we have individuals that we know should not be taking care of kids, and we cannot ask them and shut them down. So that's a concern. So just fingerprinting and criminal background check and a CPR class, um, that's what is, will be added to registration. If you wanna license, we're not changing anything on whoever gets licensed that stays the same. We're not touching that. We're just saying everyone now that we're adding two kiddos to the ratio piece, which was, you know, it went through a lot of work to get us there. We're trying to work with, you know, um, more access and less restrictions. But there has to be some safety measures. This only adds a registration if you're gonna be licensed, that stays the same. We're not touching license.

Thank you, you for that explanation. So if someone is taking care of, uh, providing childcare in their home today, they will need to register. Correct? Just register with the Department of Health and Human Services and do have a criminal background checked on. And, and what's the penalty if they're not paying attention to the legislature? We, we think that

Everyone is. Good question. And we actually have, but some people have not actually. No, that's for sure. They, I'm sure there's not thousands of people right now listening. And we have HHS if you want a technical answer, but I, I will give it a shot here. So what happens is there is an interaction. I mean, a lot of people are not gonna know. It's gonna take a minute to get everyone to get educated on this. HHS will usually through complaints or questions, and then they have a list of people that were listed before. We used to at least have them register before we're trying to say, Hey, this is important. Um, we've actually had, unfortunately even children, um, died, um, because they're, you know, certain things are not being met. So the goal is that HHS will continue their process now registering, educating, they do go out there, there is a community of providers, and then they will interact with them through complaints and educate them. I mean, they're gonna give them some grace periods for them to know that they have to register. But let's say they've been notified and they don't register, they won't be able to take care of, of kiddos for, for two years. There's a penalty for them not to be able to do that. Now, if they commit a crime, then obviously law enforcement gets involved at that point. It's a totally separate process, not an administrative process.

Thank you. And, and then, uh, in the, uh, Senator Stevenson has occasionally told me that he doesn't have all this money in the wall in his wallet that I think he does. Um, is this, is This a scalable, uh, request

Or, you know, everything is scalable and it's, everything is possible till the last minute of the session. And I'll tell you, um, Senator Stevenson knows how passionate we feel about this and if he feels it every day. So, but we recognize there's a fiscal nod on times where our, you know, we are being very, um, diligent and careful on our, our funding. Of course.

Chair and members of the committee thank you for this opportunity to speak. My name is Lisa Campbell. I have a daughter who is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I know firsthand what it means to learn that someone I trusted with my child caused her harm. And I live with this heartache every day. The impact of my daughter's childhood trauma will span her lifetime and affects every aspect of her life. Currently, when parents drop their children off at an unlicensed home daycare, they have no way to know whether the provider has a criminal history, whether anyone there knows CPR or whether abuse will ever be reported. Senate Bill two 14 asks for the minimum registration, background checks, CPR training and mandatory reporting. These are not burdens. They're the baseline. Children in home-based care deserve the same basic protections as children everywhere else. I urge your support of this bill.

Thank you, chairman. My name is Katie Rickard. I'm with the Utah Association for the Education of Young Children. So in included safety measures with the ability to monitor and enforce background checks on record, as well as basic safety training is a huge step in the protection of young children in the area. The these care, in the care these providers provide, and at the same time increases the risk of harm for more children by allowing the increase from si from eight to 10 children. We know that more the more children that are allowed to be cared for by one individual, the less overall supervision for all of the kids involved and increase of risk for serious harm. It also increases issues related to liability and home insurance. Since carriers are less likely to ensure homes where high numbers of kids to adults, um, Inc. Um, are present. Um, it also inc, uh, includes, uh, more distractions for the providers, um, and harms the overall safety of children. We need to warn that increased ratios also comes with an increased risk that you may, um, also comes with the increased risk of further harm because of these racial increases. So, thank you. We're speaking against this bill.

Thank you. Uh, good morning, uh, committee. My name is Tiu Tonga and I am an ordinary citizen representing my family. Um, I do not think that it is the proper rule of government to, um, fund, uh, childcare reading the billows. Although I, um, my self-help with childcare, um, in my own life and with my family and with others, I don't think that, um, it's good government or good practice to not only, uh, initiate something like this, but perpetually, which just sound sounds like what, uh, this bill is doing. Um, so I would ask the council to discuss what the proper role of the government is and the proper role of the citizen distinguishing the difference between the general welfare and the private welfare, which, um, tends to bleed a lot, uh, in government. So thank you.

Hello, my name is Amy Winder Newton. I'm the director of the Utah Office of Families. Um, while this is not in the governor's budget and I can't officially support it, I do wanna say I applaud the sponsors of this bill because they've threaded a needle that I think has been needed for a long time. And that is figuring out how we can get all these families who do wanna have a stay-at-home parent to be able to make a little bit of income so that they can afford to stay at home. That is something we know from survey data. We've got a high number of families in Utah who wanna have a stay at home parent. Um, but it's expensive to give up that income. And so, um, this bill does that. It helps, um, encourage that and, and allow that. And it also takes care of the background check issue, which we so desperately need. So for that, I, I applaud the sponsors and wanted to share my thoughts. Thank you.

Certainly. Thank you. My name is Kristi DeGraff. I am a family childcare provider in Southern Utah. Um, before I, uh, was a childcare provider, I actually worked for DCFS and my, I had my two young children in childcare. Even working in that field, I, I didn't think to assume anything other than there was, um, some level of, um, oversight with, with those women that I had trusted with my children. And, um, that there was some, um, level of checking in and making sure that those programs, um, were actually meeting the needs of children. Um, I, I do want to speak to, um, a couple of aspects of this, uh, bill it, first of all, the grants. And I know, um, the representative from St. George had some questions about that. I can tell you I have been a provider for nearly 20 years, and I have been spending years and years to build a program with quality materials. Children are extremely hard on materials, um, and we have had to invest so much into our program over the years. And, um, these startup grants are incredibly valuable in helping create high quality spaces for children and helping make this, um, a sustainable, uh, effort for women who are, um, engaging in this. I will tell you, um, my, my husband was in public service and didn't make a ton of money. And this was really an essential part of income. It was much more than, uh, just helping to pay for piano lessons. In fact, I, I supported our fa I have supported our family, um, more substantially than he has, and it is a very important, um, business and and investment in it is, um, uh, really essential. I would also say that childcare is a public good, much like public education is a good, um, and, but I do have concerns about raising the number of children to 10. That is two more than you can have as a licensed caregiver. It's also, um, a lot more than any of the other states, um, surrounding us have of available at this point. Thank you.

Hello. Um, good morning. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to comment. My name is Kaylyn Stanley from North Ogden, and I am representing Mormon Women for Ethical Government, or MWE for short. MWE is a grassroots organization dedicated to building a more peaceful, just and ethical world through advocacy and empowerment. We believe the family is the foundational setting where the seeds of ethics, culture, civics service, and patterns of connection are sowed. We also recognize the importance of quality childcare that supports many Utah families, including my own and our, we are grateful to Senator Escamilla for a bill that supports childcare in Utah by increasing the supply of childcare options across the state. We appreciate that this bill addresses gaps in childcare through a grant program that will help providers start or expand care in their homes and prioritize expansion in areas with few childcare options and support during non-traditional hours as P two 14 will increase the supply of childcare options at a time when available licensed care. And that's my kid over there falls for far short for family needs. We support this bill and ask the committee to vote. Yes.

So, sorry about that. It wasn't able to click in. It's actually Sydney Kin. Um, I am the, I am the chair of the childcare center at Southern Utah University. Um, we have seen firsthand down here how families have struggled finding childcare. Um, I, um, down here with, um, the average childcare being about 600 do $600 a week. And the typical employment here with being, mainly being teachers, starting at about $37,000. Um, this is really, um, a necessity to have this opportunity, um, for those that are to have one parent, um, in the home and to have this startup opportunity. Um, I was thinking about today if I decided that I wanted to be a childcare provider, um, being the chair of the childcare center licensure is vital in my opinion. And, but coming up with the funds to do that, and also to add, like was mentioned, fencing around my home, or two or three cribs, um, et cetera, would, would be counterproductive, uh, on my finances. Um, having this 5,000 up to $5,000 and yet having it governed so that we can choose where we are going to use that, utilize that money, um, so that it's not misused, um, would, would be all the, make all the difference to me along with supporting our communities and helping our neighbors that have no other choice but to go to work, um, with both. So, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak. Uh, my name is Collette Cox and I'm here today representing the Rural Utah Chamber Coalition. And we represent chambers across the state, uh, 35 to be exact, in all 24 rural counties. And I'm here today, um, representing our group to support SB 214 as written. Uh, we urge you to look at this, um, bill as, um, a foundational, uh, support in rural Utah for building economic development. Without childcare, our parents can't go to work and without workers, our businesses fail. In rural Utah, uh, this is not a social support, it is a business grant. This business grant supports expansion in numbers so the business can be more profitable. And the $5,000 provides critical, um, materials and, um, basic upgrades to homes that are needed for childcare. Um, in rural Utah, along with water power and housing, childcare is right up there at the top of the list as either a Helper hindrance to economic development. And, um, so again, I would ask you from the rural standpoint to consider SB 214 as written as it is a critical foundation to economic development in rural Utah. Thank you.

Hi. Hi.

Um, thank you for hearing me today. I just wanted to let you know about a

I'm Leslie York. I'm a licensed provider in West Jordan, Utah. I've been licensed for 20 years, and my concern arose today listening about allowing stay at home moms to make more money. They currently can make the same as I can as a licensed provider for 20 years. So I don't think increasing the number is going to help them make more money. My concern is that while we do need to support families in rural Utah, you're also affecting all the other cities. And currently every city in Salt Lake proper has openings either in a home or a center. And, um, these are trained licensed providers that have a career and you're replacing them with unseasoned providers that don't have training. You are also, um, you know, 90% of a child's brain development occurs before the age of five. And you're replacing providers who have training and education with pro stay at home moms, which is going to also affect kindergarten, social, emotional, and academic preparation. So my concern is you are, you're just replacing a trained and committed early childhood development person who has a career with someone who is a stay at home parent wanting to earn money. So I advise, although I really feel that a unlicensed provider needs the background checks and all the other safety issues, you're undermining the career people that have done this as a career. And so I think we should look at, since they're currently making the same, why not leave the ratios the same? Thank you.

Okay, perfect. I am Daisy Dage. Um, I live in rural Utah. Um, I have been in the childcare field for 20 years. I started as an unlicensed provider and then I continued as a licensed provider, as an in-home based. Um, I now own three centers and still have an in-home childcare all in rural, rural Utah, Beaver, Milford, and Cedar City. Um, my concern, um, is increasing the amount of children allowed to an unlicensed childcare as a licensed childcare provider. As an in-home basis, we are allowed to have eight children per one adult. Um, a maximum of 16 with two adults that is pushing it. Eight children per one adult is a very large ratio. Um, and with my programs, most of them are considered high quality through the state of Utah. And I have seen the differences in my programs having a lower ratio for children, um, per adults. Um, and the last lady that was just talking, I believe her name was Leslie. I agree with some of her concerns that, um, as professionals that have been in the field for many years, um, pushing to where unlicensed providers will be able to care for more children than licensed providers is very unprofessional. And it shows that you are kind of trying to push us licensed providers out of the picture and trying to only put unlicensed providers above the licensed providers that have made this a career choice and have been doing what, um, you know, child childcare and what families and children need in the state of Utah. And, um, I just really wish that you would reconsider, um, allowing those unlicensed providers to be able to allow them to have more children in their care than us licensed providers.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Corey Holdaway. I'm representing the Utah Private Childcare Association. We just, uh, uh, would echo our, uh, echo concerns that have been, uh, articulated with regard to increasing the numbers. That said, we also want to thank the Senator for, uh, amending the bill, uh, to, uh, clarify where the, uh, childcare deserts are located and how that grant will be administered, uh, to those areas, uh, limited to those areas where there is, uh, severe need. So, uh, to that end, uh, uh, again, we would just thank Senator for, uh, for making that accommodation.

Oh, Almost. There we Go. Which, which mic are you using here? Uh, this one was closest. All I'll, I'll switch to the other one on the next one. So, um, sorry. So one more question, Senator, if, if I may. So I found the $5,000 in the bill that I had skimmed over. So I'm embarrassed that I asked about it, but now I have another question. And this is maybe a math question 'cause it may, or it's a reading comprehension question. I was asking my attorney friend next to me on line three 16 where we're talking about the number of children, which I looked it up because that was the crux of all the comments we heard from folks, uh, calling in. And my reading is, it says fewer than 10. Is is, is that, is that what it says? Mr.

Chair, can I, Yes, please. Thank you so much for the time and thank you for letting me clarify it. I, I know this is, this is complicated and complex. So currently we have up to eight of not related children. This will move up to 10 and it moves everyone to, to kiddos. Now, the, this is a very, um, heavily negotiated number and, um, I think the, the chamber where I'm sitting right now presenting to feels strongly to provide more, more latitude to have more kiddos. Um, I, we spent a lot of time with the Good Department of Health and Human Services in their childcare office, licensure office, and NCSL doing research. It is hard, I mean, what that I, what I will say about this, because it does move to up to 10 senator representative, and, but everyone moves, so the license will move as well. Two more. Um, but the, here's the goal, it's educated parental choice. If I'm a parent and I'm walking into a place and I'm, and I'm asking how many kids are being taken care of in this, um, you know, home base provider setting, um, I think the parent can make a choice on the sizing versus not knowing that there's no criminal background check happening. I always call like, being blindsided. And, and let me be clear because I, I also heard comments about where does the government belong. This is not for family and friends. If a grandmother wants to take care, I wanna take care of my grand babies, uh, or my mom taking care of my, this is not about family and related, this is when you're having a business transaction. So you're in a business, um, contractual agreement. Um, so the, the goal here is that it is harder for you to know if someone had had a criminal background check, um, or CPR training than it is to know, you know, the setting and the situation. I am confident, and many of the providers have discussed this themselves as professionals, which they are, that it is really hard to take care of children. The ratios will stay the same in terms of infants per adult and ages because there's a racial component also of best practices related to age. But we, we are adding not infants, but we are adding, um, the two extras and it it's in, in, in the whole system. So it's not only for the registered ones only, it's also for the license. And I'm confident that I think every provider will, you know, based on how those interactions happen, will make a, a good choice. And, and in the size of where they are and their abilities, they can always bring other adults that will have to have criminal background checks done to be support systems into the, the setting. This was, again, very heavily, um, negotiated between the house and the Senate on the numbers. Um, if you know me, you probably will know where I will rather see, you know, less kiddos. But, and after checking with NCSL, there was a comment made about our neighboring states. We are in a, if you just look at the spectrum of states and ratios of kiddos, every state looks different because they have different requirements and criteria. We are in that middle side. It is not, I mean, you know, there are states that have zero, you don't take care of any kids without a license. And there are other states that, um, have up to 16 kids. So, you know, the spectrum is, I mean, it's broad and I think this was a very delicately done negotiated to get us to a point where we will have safe, um, adults. So hopefully not child molesters taking care of our children and we can take action on it.

Thank you. I, I apologize Mr. Chair. I asked the question wrong. So we have been talking about 10 kids. Yes. The whole time. The whole time. I am reading the line that says fewer than 10 kids. Three 16. Yeah. So, So that means in my simple engineering brain, since kids come in whole Yeah, it has to be nine.

So it's four to 10. Oh, we have HHS here.

Well, it says fewer than 10. Yeah,

No, let me have an answer. The, the licensed people because then I I will be Okay.

I, I, I just, yeah, No, it's, it's a good, I I just didn't want you to pass this bill and think you had 10, but I read nine.

I The name is Shannon Toman Black. I'm the director for the division of licensing and background checks, the Department of Health and Human Services. Uh, thank you for allowing me to speak to this. So there's a bit of a nuance here. It is. There you are allowed to care for nine plus a certain number of your own children, and that's where you get the 10. And that was the same as it was when it was the eight. Eight and then the six. So when it's saying it, this is, um, less than 10 of

Non your children. Non non your children. Thank you. That's a good way to put it. But

It's less than 10 of client children rather than personal children. Correct. Okay.

I just was trying to get clarity there. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, so I, I live in a rural area. Well, it's rural right now 'cause we have two stoplights, but I understand we're getting a third so that I don't know if we're still qualified. So then we'll be an urban area at that point. Um, I, I do have a couple of questions. Uh, right now who's required to sign up or who's, who's required to register if they're going to do daycare?

So, um, can we have HHS again? I'm gonna have them technically answering your question. And I am so sorry I missed your question.

Oh, no problem. Uh, who, who currently is required to register if they're doing a daycare in their home?

Um, so we have residential certified providers, and so they are required to have a certificate, um, which is, it's kind of in between if you are unregulated and you are licensed, and it allows them to, um, access federal funds. So for, for instance, a child subsidy and to be able to accept that. And this, um, for this bill, this actually puts them up on the same level of being able to take that, um, nine kids and including, um, additional of their own children. So, so how many kids can they do without registering? Or is there no requirement to register if, if a family decides that, hey, we've got a neighbor here that, uh, they could, they're, they're good with four kids. Um, it is four, you can care for four without being registered, certified, licensed, any of those things. Um, you can always choose to be it. This is not a you, you're either in this bucket or you're in that bucket. We always invite anyone who would prefer to be registered or, or certified or licensed and access some of those tools that come along with that. But right now, yes, it is four.

Mr. Mr. Chair, just to clarify, four to eight on, on registered, sorry. Yeah, please do. That needs to be Clarified. Yes. To clarify, we, if you, right now between four and eight, you are not required to register.

No. But there are some requirements. Um, one of them is this background check, but that there was a loop, um, unfortunately a piece that was missed that required them to get a background check but didn't require them to do anything with it, and did not allow the state to have any authority to enforce that background check. So that is, if you're talking about that piece, that's four to eight. Um, the state also allows just anyone up to four that's, you know, you might be taking care of your neighbor's child to do that without having to do anything. Anything.

Okay. So, so if someone has five kids, does this bill now require them to do anything different?

No. Five kids of their own or five kids Completely not related to

Them. Five kids not related.

Yeah. So yes, they would just have to register and have a criminal background checked on and a CPR training. Okay. Um, And just to be clear, this is five unrelated children through a business transaction, right? They're contracting for a service. So not a grandmother, you know, or a aunt or whatever. I'm talking about a business, right? I'm childcare provider. Uh, five non-related kids before, plus their own children. Um, they will have to register, get a criminal background check and, and have a CPR training. Yeah.

Okay. So I, I hear a lot of discussion about rural, but in rural we probably do things different because we know, we know, like I I know probably if they've lived in my county for more than 10 years, I probably know 70% of everybody there. Um, so it's probably not the same. I I just, I'm, I'm struggling with a couple things. One, why are we putting a government oversight? I mean, if I, I know all of my neighbors and, and many of them are, you know, they'll, they'll bring kids in and, and say, Hey, I'll watch your kids in the morning. You guys watch my kids at night or in the afternoons. So I, I don't, I don't see this as a problem in a rural area. And I, I, granted I don't understand the urban so well, but, uh, um, the, the other thing is I think, uh, with, with the number of bills that we have passed that incentivize employers to offer daycare, that seems to me, so that's taking out of the same pot that this bill would be taking out of. Because if employers are offering daycare, then it's reducing the amount of money going in and then your, your bill would probably increase the amount of money coming out. And I think, I think the long-term solution is probably more towards incentivizing employers to offer daycare rather than, rather than to create more, more regulation. I'm, I'm open to discussion on that Mr. Chair.

Re really quick 'cause I wanna be respectful of your time. And the representative is talking about of a real, um, conversation. And that's why we want to give parental choice and options. Some people like home base, they may not like childcare facility of 200 kids, other parents may feel more compelled representative. We are number five in the nation when it comes to childcare deserts. And we did a very comprehensive study. I co-chair the Women in the economy subcommittee for multiple years here in the state legislature. And two years ago we actually, uh, unveil a whole, um, study. And our rural Utah areas are hurting on childcare. So our I appreciate that you're so supportive of the businesses. 'cause some of those are my bills and we are coming with multiple solutions because we, we haven't been able to, um, like get it right yet. I think we're moving in the right direction. This bill only says if you wanna be home based and if parents can actually choose to be more in a family based setting, that they will know at least, and, and maybe in rural Utah may not be. And some communities that are small, my husband was the mayor of a town of 15,000 people. They knew everyone, right? Um, that you will say that's, I know my neighbors, I know who they are. I don't worry. There'd be a child molester taking care of kids in some urban areas that's very different. So that you are walking in into a business transactional relationship where you have some assurances that at a minimum, someone that is taking care of infants and toddlers that cannot verbally say I'm being abused, are we are checking that they're not, um, that they should not be taking care of kids and we can take care of that. And that they have CPR training. That's at a basic piece. If you're not doing this as a business, this really should not be having an impact on you. This is really when you are saying, you know, I wanna be a business owner and start at home and do this professionally. So I, I wanna differentiate between, you know, my sister-in-law or my next door neighbor helping each other babysitting. This is childcare. This is a comprehensive service of eight hours every day for working situations. And we're only saying we will incentivize where they are bigger needs. And that's what the purpose of the bill is. Um, but it is adding two slots. I mean, that is a reality.

call on Representative Owens. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to make a motion to favorably recommend to the full house HSB two 14.

I would like to offer a substitute motion and exclude, uh, the counties of the class four through six.

Yes. A substitute

Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I applaud the idea of, of doing this, but, um, I do have concerns with the grants. I don't believe that that is the proper role of government. We are not a business to provide money for businesses to begin. So I will be a no on this. Bill.

Mr. Chair? Can I offer an idea to the good representative? Yes. Um, and if we can, and I'm more than happy to work with him, um, to get any language that he feels comfortable for the floor. I will also be, um, share with the, the good committee that leadership has been involved in these negotiations very specifically in your chamber related to, um, the importance of helping. So I I can go back to leadership and work. Um, any language if you know, with a good representative, uh, I mean, I'm more than happy to do that representative, but I will say, let me go back to the consensus at the, at the above my pay grade, um, scenario with, uh, presiding officers on this, if that's okay.

Concludes my, yeah, that my summation. Thank you for allowing

Waive. Waive.

Uh, I'll work on that. Mr. Chair. Thank you, committee. I appreciate your Time. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and I appreciate your time. First Timing committee. So, um, Senate Bill two 14, I think, um, many of you guys are familiar with a portion of this bill. We, we already passed last year in, in the Senate, and it's now enhanced and I think stronger and better. And it's a labor of love of working with many stakeholders. And I just, you guys have heard me in this committee come and talk about childcare many, many years. Um, Senator Millner was also co-chair and worked with us in the Women in the Economy Committee for many years as well. This is a top priority for Utahans, and we're just trying to bring solutions. So as we, um, worked since last year, addressing some closing the gap related to on unregulated home based care, um, this is where we ended Madam Chair and the bill is simple. So we'll start with our presentation. And then I do have two co presenters, so I'll go very fast. 'cause we, we do have the Department of Health and Human Services that will provide us some just, um, evidence-based work that we've done and, and why this safety piece is, is important and critical. Okay. So, um, in terms of our, the presentation, as we know, Utahans live in a childcare desert that's, uh, we're number five in the country, meaning there's not enough licensed childcare options. We did that through a study. Uh, women in the Economy subcommittee actually funded through the legislation legislature that study. And, and especially in rural areas, counties like Daggett, Paiute Ridge, and Wayne have actually no licensed childcare providers at all. So the question is, how do we increase access without compromising safety, and at the same time, helping families make choices. And this bill accomplishes all of those, I think, and it creates a good balance mechanism. So what we do is we are establishing a $2.3 million grant, uh, fund to support the launch of approximately what we estimate about a th a thousand new home-based childcare providers. This will be individual grants that will receive $5,000 each, and they will be also, and I'll let the private sector come and talk more about how they are part of this solution with some matching into this. Um, to this grants we are having in the policy an increase on the max number of children for the on, on, um, the now new re registered group of, of home-based centers. We're moving them from eight to 10. And this is where HHS will explain a little bit of how we got to this point, which I know, um, a lot of people have some concerns. And we wanna address those concerns. And that registration piece on now what we were gonna be calling the registered home-based providers we're saying, which is four to 10 kiddos, we are now ensuring criminal background checks, uh, fingerprinting and CPR training, as well as mandated abuse reporting. So that's what the bill does. Madam um, chair, we're just trying to provide, um, more opportunity access and let families make choices within their own communities. If that's okay, I would like HHS to just provide a feedback on how we went through this framework. Yes, Thank you.

Yeah. Just Good afternoon committee. Um, my name is Shannon Toman Black. I am the director for the division of Licensing and background checks at the Department of Health and Human Services. And thank you for this opportunity to speak to this bill. We, at the time, as we began looking at, um, how we could help support home-based providers, recognizing that there is a childcare crisis in Utah, and that we are all interested in supporting working parents while also maintaining health and safety of children and transparency. We began to look at how this is handled across the United States. What is kind of the mid range of allowing children in a home with one, possibly one care provider. Um, and what we found is that if we upped that to, uh, two additional children as this, uh, proposed bill does, it still falls in line with what not only across the United States has done, but also by our sister states in this region, which we understand we often have a lot more in common with than maybe New York and some of those East coast cities. So we realize that this is a balance and we deeply understand the concerns there, and which is why we have worked with the sponsor to provide some minimal health and safety and close some of those gaps, which I'm happy to talk to if there are any questions on that piece. Um, but we do feel like this is a good balance of supporting small business owners while ensuring a little bit of additional baseline health and safety for Utah's children.

You. Yeah. I'm Emily Bell McCormick with the Policy Project, and I just have to say this is such an incredible bill, such a cool way to approach this because we've been looking at how do we support families in Utah and how do we also at the same time increase supply for childcare? So over the last three weeks, our team has visited seven different counties, severe Washington, Salt Lake Weaver, cash Davis, and Iron Counties. And in this, um, in these visits we visited with families and with childcare providers that are in homes. And this bill was, uh, crafted specifically to meet the needs of a lot of utahns, especially looking at rural and their desire to have their children cared for in a neighborhood kind of setting where it feels familiar, it's, you know, as someone that they may know someone on their street. And we visited a home care provider, uh, uh, in Cedar City. And she talked about how she needed to have an income. They, she needed to participate so that they could afford their home and kind of those basic things. And so they found this, creating an at home based childcare was a really impactful way for her to both support her family, be able to be in the home and be a mom, and also to serve her community. And then a woman who lives in, uh, Wayne County, it's one of the four counties that has no childcare whatsoever, uh, said that she feels extremely lucky that she gets to work with her father who owns Blackburn Propane because he allows her to bring her younger two kids into work with her. There's nowhere for those kids to go when the older two kids get outta school. They join, they join her at work, and during the summer she said she just brings all four kids, uh, to, to this company. And those were the kind of stories we heard all over the state and that we continue to hear. And so childcare really is an example of, of a market failure. Like there's this huge need for it, but the market hasn't been able to catch up with it. So this is a way to kind of incentivize this bill is a way to incentivize the private market to meet the demand without government taking on the role of providing childcare. Um, we think that this is a much more kind of Utah way to approach this issue and, uh, just have to reinstate. This is an incredibly cool Bill. Thank you. Thank you. That concludes our presentation. We're open for questions, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks, Senator. Um, a couple questions. One, uh, I was just looking at the fiscal note and I see the two and a half million one time. Um, how, and you've mentioned rural a couple of times, which always perks my ears up. How, how do you balance this and make sure that the, these new daycare businesses are spread throughout different zip codes in Utah? Absolutely.

Thank you for that question. Um, Senator, you're right on. So we are having, um, the department of work for services in the Office of Childcare will be managing the grants. This is where the private sector don't pass the time to them. We'll be bringing a match amounts of money into this. So they already raised those funds. This is where it's so good. And the goal, the goal is to incentivize new businesses to open, but there's a reporting mechanism that will require the department to make sure that it's targeting those rural areas, those zip codes where we know they're bigger childcare deserts. So we're coming in knowing that there's bigger deserts in different parts of the state, rural being the one that's leading, and that's where you're gonna see an emphasis on pouring those funds in that area. And it will create some technical assistance for them and for them to prep themselves, get ready and they can operate. And it will be about a $5,000 grant. I don't know if you wanna add anything into that.

Yeah, just like Senator Vickers said, um, it's gonna be really cool, we've actually kind of started working through what the application form would look like and if, um, someone is creating one of these home-based cares within a rural community, or if they're creating a home-based care that takes kind of off hours. So if they're taking kids overnight or on the weekends, times when, like somebody might be working in a hospital, uh, they would get an extra incentive to provide care in that area. So they would have access to a little bit more funding for that grant. And as Senator Vickers said, we are just as a, we're a nonprofit and we're doing a private raise that will further incentivize people in rural areas because those were the places that we heard the most about the need. You're never going to, or not likely going to have large childcare facilities going open in Daggett County. It just, from what we see, it's not happening. And so really this is a solution for such a rural state like Utah. 'cause we can hit those, like really hard to reach areas

And on top of that then, um, I, I can see where this will be a big impact. Um, and then the follow up though is just 15,000 a year. And, um, how will you sustain, is it through the non-profit that you would sustain once these are going?

That's a good question. So it's 5,000 per, um, and then there'll be some variation based on if they're meeting, you know, off hours nights. So there'll be some additions, but average more averaging 5,000 the funds are, is, you know, the amount of grants are a lot. So you're, we're probably thinking two years. It will take to draw the entire amount. And then that sustainability, I think the policy project and the other partners in the philanthropic community, they, if this, you know, this is testing something new, I mean, I don't know if any other place, if it works, it will continue to invest. And the good thing is our partners with HHS as they will be the ones, you know, making sure that the safety pieces are being in place. And then DWS on the high quality portion, this is a combo you want, right? It is making sure we're keeping kids safe access for parents, giving the technical support through the private entity and, and nonprofit. So the goal is that there will be more, but the reality is just to get them started. I mean, you know, so the commitment is a one time commitment for the legislature, but I'm confident because this is a number one issue in the state of Utah between one or three, that childcare, we will have more support if this works to replicate more of this, Say thank you.

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Dr. Sarah Stone, and I represent, uh, the Utah Association for the Education Young Children Care for Kids Program. Uh, I also run a licensed childcare in Utah, and I hold a PhD in child development. And I wanna begin by saying that SB two 14 contains many provisions that will generally, uh, and genuinely strengthen and support home-based providers and the childcare deserts that we have. And so I thank Senator Escamilla and the policy project and the Department of Health and Human Services for, um, moving these things forward. However, um, there are serious concerns here about the provision that increases, uh, the number of children allowed in unlicensed care, which is going from eight to 10. And so, as a little bit of history for many years, uh, Utah's unlicensed cap was four children. In 2022, it increased to six, and in 2024 it increased to eight. And now we're in considering moving it to 10. And so in just three years, the legislature has doubled the number of children and, and trying to do more, um, in a single unlicensed provider without oversight or inspections or training. And so it, it, um, calling this a just plus two, um, to the number of children that are in unlicensed care is really a misnomer. It, it's, uh, oversimplifying and minimizing the impact that what we've seen over the past few years. Um, so the research is clear that lower child to adult ratios and smaller group sizes are, uh, provide safer high quality care with fewer injuries, lower illness rates, more responsive and developmentally supportive interactions. And so increasing this group size, um, makes supervision harder. So they're talking about championing the safety component, which is it, which is this registration, uh, part of the build, but they're also then building in, I made you have 30 seconds. They are also building in, um, a lack of safety by increasing this ratio. And I've also heard the free market market argument that, uh, you know, if we keep deregulating this, this will lead to a more affordability. But, um, we can't apply this to children. Children are not a commodity. Um, so I respectfully urge you to amend it, to maintain or reduce the current cap of eight un unrelated children in unlicensed care.

Hello, my name is Abby Ivory. I am currently the economic development director for Eagle Mountain City. I am also the former economic development coordinator for our six regional council, which also, um, covered Wayne County. And I have to apologize, um, Senator Escamilla, but I have to correct you. There are two licensed state licensed daycare facilities in Wayne County because we used GO eeo, um, rural, uh, county grant funds to do the very program that you want to do. And it was very successful. So I'm supporting this program. Uh, we created one home license facility and one commercial license facility, um, which is able to, um, uh, have 51 children in it. So this is one in Hanksville, which is on one side of, uh, Wayne County. And then, uh, 38 in the other side in Loa. And so this was a very successful program in Wayne County. We actually went up to 20,000. So that's one, one change I would make to it. Instead of only 5,000, we did 20,000. It was a reimbursable grant, so post performance, um, 50 50 grants. So they spent 40,000, they turned in receipts and got that money back. I got $20,000 back. We worked with, uh, the care about childcare, uh, group out of, uh, five County Association of Government down in, out of south. They came and worked with them, um, helping them out, showing what they could do, how to get the right amount of mix of children in the area, um, in their area. And it was a very successful program. So it, it can definitely work for rural areas. And so I really appreciate this coming out, but I would make those changes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Corey Holdaway. I am representing the Utah Public or Utah Private Childcare Association. Um, and, uh, I just first of all want to thank, uh, Senator Escamilla for her work on childcare, uh, services across through the years. Um, we as, uh, uh, center-based childcare providers struggle. We struggle because just to, to make the numbers work. Um, and we see this bill as, as having some good things in it. Uh, in that it, uh, is promoting, uh, increased public safety, uh, for the, the children as far as background checks and the like. However, the, uh, what Dr. Stone shared with you in terms of, uh, uh, the numbers going up for unlicensed providers is a concern. What happens often is, uh, is, uh, a, a childcare, uh, service is offered. And then, uh, when it is in the community, uh, it, uh, the, the, the homebased providers are pulling these, uh, children away from the centers and, and thus creating these deserts that are, are created. Um, it happened, uh, with, uh, the, uh, full day k, uh, program that, uh, was instituted and, and that, uh, had a dramatic effect on, uh, on centers being able to provide services. As an example, um, centers are required to provide, uh, one adult for infants for every child, every four children. Um, I mean, uh, the, the ratios are, are much more challenging for centers than they are, uh, in this bill. So, um, the good things in the bill we like, uh, as far as background checks, but we would just encourage the, uh, the committee to, uh, revisit the number, uh, the increased number of, of children being provided.

Thank you. My name is Kristi DeGraff. I am a family childcare provider in Southern Utah. And, um, also the president of the Professional Family Childcare Association. Um, but before I was a family childcare provider, I was actually a social worker for six years for the, for DCFS, and I had my first two children while working for them. So I had been in the situation of being a parent, trying to figure out and pay for childcare. Um, I also sadly have seen many children who have been victims of child abuse and neglect. And having worked in this field now for 20 years, I understand how, um, how challenging the work is and how important it is to have caregivers who are well vetted and trained. Um, I've also seen a lot of situations where parents are doing the best they can, but they do need good supports around, um, them to help ensure that they're making these good decisions. And so we absolutely, I absolutely support the, um, increase in, um, the tightening of, of those requirements for unlicensed providers. I think that is very needed. I did have, have doubled the number of unlicensed spots in the last unlicensed spots in the last four years, as Sarah outlined with going from four to eight. And, um, costs have only increased for parents because childcare is a very tricky system. And, um, as, as we continue to make these small tweaks things happen that really disrupt the system and, um, make it really challenging for the providers, the experienced providers in there to continue to provide that care. And so, I I would also ask that we reconceive reconsider, um, increasing the unlicensed spots. I think it needlessly, um, potentially puts more children at risk. Um, but we do like the, um, the, the better checks for children or, or for, for those caregivers and, and the startup grants, as long as the language is very clear. And we, we've been talking with the bill sponsor about that and, and again, Senator Escamilla and the policy project, we do want to thank you for your work on this. Um, it's, it's a tricky field to be in, and so we would, I would just ask that we, um, keep, uh, keep the amendments where they are. Oh, one more thing to note though, a quick Google search. And so this is not verified, but in looking at the numbers that you can care for, um, in Nevada online it says six Arizona, it says four Colorado, um, for a single provider is, is six to eight. And so I think increasing it is not necessarily, um, what other states are doing at this point to solve this problem. Thank you.

Thank you, chairman. My name is Katie Rickard. I'm the Executive director of the Utah Association for the Education of Young Children. And my comments align with the last few, um, people's testimonies as well. So I'll just be brief. Great. Um, I'm gonna share a fact sheet with you. I'll pass it out as soon as I'm done. But just in line with that, we are in favor of the, um, the bill for the safety measures it's doing and how that's gonna, um, give greater, um, responsibility to those caring for children in a home-based setting. And we support that, and we also support the grant opportunity to expand the care. Um, we do, however, need to ask for an amendment for the, um, for line one 10, where increases the number to 10. Also, um, this action of increasing the, the, the, um, spots, um, does several things, um, towards, um, hurting the safety of children, the caregivers, the families, and the business. Um, for example, um, it helps, uh, increase insurance costs and losses. Um, there's burnout for the burnout and turnover for providers that affects their development of children and their care. And, um, uh, so my fact sheet will share more evidence of that as well as, um, there is actually no evidence that increasing ratios increases supply. So, thank you.

Um, so I, as a parent, um, I've struggled to find affordable childcare options, especially since the closure of the Salt Lake County Childcare Program. Um, it's unaffordable. Uh, when you couple that with how much everything else has gone up in price, it's been really hard to obtain that American dream that we all like to talk about so much. Um, now that being said, especially since some counties and the state don't have like brick and mortar childcare facilities, I do think I have come to see in-home childcare in a different light. And I do think it's imperative that we invest in it. Um, and while this bill isn't perfect, it does shore up some of the concerns that my wife and I ha have had when we've looked at these things for options. Uh, providing grants to get the program, get programs off the ground, um, is a great idea. Uh, partnering it with additional training and certification, that, that definitely helps me as a parent feel more comfortable in trusting my child to somebody in one of that runs one of these programs. Registering. It definitely helps with that trust factor. It also will help with visibility. I could tell you that trying to find a quality in home program right now, it's the wild West out there. There's not a good place to find that information. You have to rely on word of mouth. If you know somebody who knows somebody or you get lucky. Um, and, you know, we, we need to be able to trust that our kids aren't just gonna be running around unsupervised, that they're not learning anything, or that they won't just be plopped in front of a TV all day. Um, and, you know, we, I, I'm all for reducing, you know, childcare deserts. And if this, uh, if this bill helps them to not only start up but remain affordable, I could, I could see that having a positive, positive impact. Um, I do have a little bit of concern about the, the child to caregiver ratio. I would be more, I would be supportive of amending that either to the same as it is now, or even lower, closer to the licensed facilities. We've, I can say on a personal note that, you know, I've had a child who, um, experienced an uns unsafe situation, uh, in childcare. And it's, that is something that does concern me. But, uh, you know, I do, I do think that as a community, we need to invest more in not just childcare, but quality childcare and obviously different areas need different solutions. So I, I support SB two 14, um, with hope, the hope that maybe we can amend the ratio.

Hello, committee members. Thank you for having me here today. My name's Elizabeth Garby. I'm Vice President of Public Policy for United Way of Salt Lake. Um, while we do share concerns around the ratio, um, increase, I will say that this is an essential bill to pass. We see this as an informed parent parental choice bill, because without having the, um, the minimal safety things in there, um, parents don't know. As, as we heard from the last, um, person that testified, they're not really sure, um, how to assess this. So this really is about informed parental choice on where to, to, um, send their children. And then I think with the addition of this grant program, that really does help address some of, uh, the issues in, in opening up additional, um, home-based child facilities for our state. Thank you. Thank You.

Appreciate that. Senator Irwins. Um, hello, my name is Collette Cox, and I am a southern Utah rural resident and a leader with the Rural Utah Chamber Coalition. The rural Utah Chamber Coalition represents 35 chambers across the state of Utah, and our 35 chambers represent thousands and thousands of rural businesses. I also happen to be a former home-based childcare business owner, so I know the subject very well. Um, I now work to support childcare businesses in the rural parts of our state. I'm here to support the childcare capacity expansion grant program to help establish and expand home-based childcare businesses. In Utah's 24 rural counties, we see childcare deserts all across the state. This impacts families and their ability to provide for themselves, but it also greatly impacts rural businesses. Our rural businesses are desperate for a consistent workforce, and this is across the board in all industries, but particularly in service-based industries, including tourism and then manufacturing, healthcare, and our tech sector. We support SB two 14 and, um, support the increased numbers, um, as outlined in the bill, the increased safety measures that, um, will help protect children and their families. But mostly, um, this bill gives families options for available high quality childcare, which is the cornerstone of a thriving rural economies. And this expansion proposal will greatly help our rural economies thrive. So we, um, encourage you to pass it as written. Thank you.

Hey. Sorry about that glitch. Um, my name's Lori Nickerson. I live in Cedar City. I'm a mom and a grandma and have had many associations and roles with childcare and education in our community. And I just wanna speak out in support of this. Our families are just being crunched. As a grandmother, I can see that our average cost in of homes is $400,000 in Cedar City. And our average wages are very low, and the cost for childcare is over $2,000 a month, which makes it just impossible for young families to be able to afford a home, to be able to start having kids. It really makes it economically so difficult. And if there were more home care providers, it would be easier to find places people felt comfortable with, and it would give quite a few moms a chance to stay home, own their own home childcare business. And I just wanna urge you to think about the little places, the rural places. We don't have a lot of resources. We don't have a lot of options, and yet we all wanna be able to have a community where people can thrive, have families make a decent living. So I, I urge you to support Bill two 14. I think it's just one way, one small way to show support for families. We always say Utah's about families, but do we ever put our money where our mouth is? This is a chance to make a little difference. That could mean so much to young families. And I thank you for your consideration.

I I, I think the idea behind this is that it is really important, okay? And I, I'm looking that at this from a conservative perspective, right? And, you know, when I look at, I, I, I look at the difficulties, okay? So you have low provider wages relative to workload. I mean, that's, that's one of the major problems. I think high regulatory compliance costs, insurance and liability exposure, parent affordability, constraints. So I, I see those are real difficulties, right? And, you know, I, I mean, the previous thing that we talked about where we're trying to provide, you know, high level jobs into rural areas, that's going to help a lot, right? And, and, you know, but, but I like, I like the notion of going to private providers be, but I, I do believe that we have to have, you know, you and I sit on the child welfare committee, right? And so we do have to have those basic, you know, oversight things, right? And, you know, I, but then again, we, we look at the high regulatory compliance cost, right? How, how do we balance those two? So those are things that I, I guess, are on my mind. And, you know, I guess, I guess one thing too is that I don't under, you know, one of the things that, uh, about one time funding and these grants is yeah, that in the short run that might provide more slots. But if we're not taking care of some of these barriers, I don't, I don't see how it's sustainable. And so those are, those are some questions you might be able to answer for me and what, what your thinking is along those lines ahead.

Mr. Sir. Thank you. So, I, I, I mean, I wanna be very, uh, clear here because I think the concerns that were being raised, there's multiple pieces to this bill. One is the grant. And that grant, again, is just to incentivize more, um, some more home base, um, you know, high quality providers. And it will be targeting specific areas with, you know, the notion that we can close gaps. The one of the speakers, Abby, from one of the rural areas, a report came two years ago. So those changes that she's talking about now are real. And that's why she was saying the 40,000, you know, 20,000 versus 5,000. That's for centers. We're talking about home base. So I wanna make sure we are not there is, we have different groups and categories. What the bill does on the, on the license, uh, you know, grants are for the home base ones. So this is not tackling large, you know, centers. Those are different and they're treated differently. But, uh, on, on one piece, the other part is, I wanna make sure we are all clear, that right now we're all sitting here. There's approximately between 1500 to 3000 on unlicensed, on registered providers taking care of up to eight kiddos. This is a number eight to 10. They're not registered anywhere. There's no criminal background checks done, there's nothing. And we have no authority to even intervene if something happens. The sense of urgency. And the Senate has passed this bill twice in terms of that safety piece. We get stuck in the house. So this bill is a compromise. Bill. You guys know me. This has been a lot of the work. And HHS has been very instrumental in helping us navigate a very, I mean, we hear the concerns, but one thing is for parents. And I think, um, United Way did it really good in explaining, walking in with completely blindsided that you don't know if you're, if someone's taking care of children anywhere in the state, in any facility schools, there is a criminal back background checked on. Most parents probably assume that's what's happening when they're going to these places. We have nothing. So please know that we are measuring, like you said, is a ba the delicate balance. The grants alone, I think are very unique and it's really to incentivize. And I, and like I said, philanthropic organizations wanna help more, but they don't see where or how. And I think this will create that mechanism that you will see more continuation of that support. But what people were raising concerns in their ballot, I've been in discussions with them for months, is me trying to balance how do we get the bill through the house and hearing their concerns about some of the stuff that Senator Johnson just discussed. The Senate has been passing this bill for the last couple of years in this with a num with a, you know, um, criminal background check fingerprinting and CPR training. Where we're getting stuck is on the number. And this has been the compromise. I mean, I, we're working on this, this is, this has been a lot of work in getting us there. And, and you see a bipartisan effort. This is, we've been working with both, um, offices of presiding officers to try to get us to a place right now. I mean, that's why the sense of urgency and people saying, yeah, we support the urgency piece. They don't feel so happy about the numbers. We still think that it outweighs criminal background check and fingerprinting of adults taking care of infants and children that are maybe not verbal. And the ratio, having that be a decision of the parents. 'cause the parents will know, right? If I walk to a location and it looks too small, I mean, like you're, that's not, you're not blind into that situation. You may not know that this have not had any criminal background checks done. Right? I mean, how many people actually think that there is that this, we've asked parents and they're like, what do you mean they're not, there's no criminal checks done. They're not. So that is our concern. We were trying to balance all of this, and I'm being very respectful. The, the organizations are correct on saying, you know, we, we are keeping ourselves with within the evidence-based component. But there will be, again, fingerprinting, criminal background checks registered and CPR training for basic emergency response. Those basic pieces will be now on every home base, um, registered place between four and 10 kiddos after that then become licensed. That, that, I'm not touching that part of, of, of the group. So I just wanna clarify that part. 'cause I think that's important. Can I,

Yeah. Well, well, I mean, what, what I'm, what I'm trying to say is, you know, when you look at, when, when you look at these things, okay, so you, you just talked about a number of things that increase regulatory compliance costs. And I can see you saying, well, we want these grants so that we can, you know, if, if you can show that we are, that, that we're dealing with these issues that conservatives care about, right? Then, then I think I, I think it sells better in the house, right? Because I, you know, if, if we can show that we're lowering the compliance costs, but yet increasing the safety, that's a big deal, right? And so we, we wanna make this profitable for people. It has to be a win-win while still retaining that. You know? And so if we could show in yeah. In like, in bigger centers, maybe that cost is a lot more, right? Maybe, maybe by doing this. So you, you have to show that this money being invested is gonna have a high return on investment. Right? Which means we're gonna have better be better. He, you know, and, and you know, I mean, partnerships with some of these new providers and everything else could be part of that too, right? But, but you know, I, I mean, when I, when I was working and, uh, you know, my kids were young. I, I actually preferred taking them to someone's home. But, but you do want mm-hmm. Assurances, right? So right. The basics. Those are just the things that I'm worried about. Yeah. And I think that's why, that's why when you go over to the house, people say, wait a minute, we don't want government involvement there. So if we can show that we can actually maybe get some of that out of the way, but yet make sure our kids are safe, that might be a, a big selling point.

Yes. Thank you. Um, Mr. Chair, you ready for a motion?

uh, maybe a little conversation, Senator, uh, something tells me that, um, the current numbers and even the centers are in existence because of some of your previous work, I would imagine. Um, but would you address the doubling of numbers, um, in the short time that, that's a concern? And that's one. And then the other is the competition with those who are licensed. Uh, I think you're trying to get pe more people licensed, right?

Yeah. So, uh, and I'm gonna bring HHS to get us through the numbers, if that's okay. Okay. So, because I think there's some technical stuff here, but let me start on, on competition. So I think there's, we need to also recognize that there is parental choice. Yeah. And I think that the good senator mentioned some people feel more comfortable in a home base scenario, and maybe that's a fit for your family. Other people like the big centers and, and you know, it, all of it in, in the market is competition. But I think going back to the basics, and here is where the experts from the Department of Health and Human Services, and they'll talk about licensure and how you have, we have to differentiate them based on ratios, based on some safety pieces. Where we are saying there is right now a group of home-based providers between four and eight that right now has nothing. We don't even know who they are. And we are seeing increases. And you've seen some of those stories in the media of incidents that have been very, very devastating to the point of fatalities in some cases, because we have no way of even knowing who they are. So this is the, the delicate balance. But I'll say in terms of our, our grade partners in the centers, and I'm running another bill that actually is putting a center in place in one of our facilities with the help of the good, uh, Senate president that we, there's spaces for all of 'em, um, Mr. Chair, uh, pro temp. I think that's important to recognize and that every parent should choose what I'm giving, I think parents with this bill is some, um, peace of mind that on this home base register ones, which are gonna be, we estimate probably increased to 5,000 of them. And those individuals are gonna choose how many people they want in their home. It's up to them. They don't have to have 10 kids. We're just saying up to 10 that they will know, at least those parents that I can drop my, my infant or my toddler. And at least it will not be with someone that shouldn't be taking care of kids based on a criminal background check. 'cause right now we have none of that. So if, and if I can have HHS respond, 'cause I think that's important, those ratios, how we have the history of Utah moving those numbers. Yes.

Please enlighten us on that.

I will do my best. Again, Shannon Toman, black Director for the division of licensing and background checks, department of Health and Human Services, um, you are correct that there was initially, uh, for and under were on, um, were allowed to operate without being registered and without any o um, statutory oversight, which makes sense, right? You have people that are babysitting in neighborhoods and things like this. And we certainly don't wanna stand in the way of that. Uh, I think, uh, during COVID there began to be a concern because there was a lack of childcare, um, for many reasons and is a policy decision. Um, our policy makers came together and expanded those, um, to six and uh, or to eight. And then now we're talking about to 10. But what I do want to clarify is that for this small, um, this area of providers, these registered providers, there is a control in place that is actually a tighter, um, ratio than we have in our centers where they are not allowed to care for, uh, more than two children under three, which really takes care of that lot of concern because we want to know, and in best practice is that if you gotta carry kids out and you're a single provider, you only have two arms. And so that allows for, I gotta grab those kids and go, if there's an emergency, it really takes into account that piece. Um, and if as the senator was speaking through, one of the concerns is that when this bill was initially passed, that expanded us to the eight. There was really good intent in putting, putting in these background check requirements. However, it missed the piece that actually allowed us to enforce the results of those background checks. So we have providers who may or may not be getting background checks, and I can tell you that of the ones that have registered, there are 427 that should be associated, that should be getting background checks. Only 202 have actually followed through and gotten those background checks. Out of that 202, there are five that if we had had the authority would not have been allowed to have direct access to children. But because we have no enforcement authority, those providers are allowed to operate and to take children. And we have absolutely no way to ensure that parents know that This is in a voluntary basis. So just think about, I mean, perspective. Yeah.

Yeah, I, I, I'm gonna vote to put this outta committee 'cause I know Senator Escamilla and the way she works with others and stuff, but, but I, I, I do have concerns, right? But, but I, I also think that you know how to get to a, a compromise and, and I'm not saying compromise safety, I'm not saying compromise other things, right? But I know you know how to work towards these solutions and I've always appreciated the things that you've done. So I, you know, I, I'm, I'm comfortable passing this out. I would just like to, you know, have some of these discussions because I also think if you can get the policy right, you're, you're not gonna be ba bogged down in the house the same way.

before we go to Senator Kwan, uh, just from my view here now as the chair, um, I, I know this has passed out, Senator, but not at these numbers then. And that's the, you know, that's, that's probably my biggest concern too. And, uh, so I, I know you as well, and, um, probably sit in the same place there as Senator Johnson as, um, hearing these concerns and the stakeholders, and I know that they have access to you. So let go to Senator Kwan.

Thank, thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we favorably pass out SB two 14 to the full body of the Senate.

Wave summation, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Wait, wait, wait.

Pro Tem. Um, this bill is one of the, um, package of bills that we've been working during the summer. In a bipartisan effort to try to address our childcare, uh, situation in the state, we, you're gonna see multiple bills coming from the house and the Senate. Um, Senator Baldry and myself have been in involved from the senate side and some of the conversations and finding solutions. What this bill does is, um, just create a mechanism to increase the number of home base, um, childcare, uh, availability. And it has a grant attached to this with philanthropic money matching the funds. So it's a great private public partnership. Um, the goal is to create up to 6,000 new home-based childcare slots available, uh, targeting in areas where there's big childcare deserts, mostly in rural areas. So to our rural, um, colleagues, this is a place where we wanna bring more, um, availability for those families. It does, uh, move the number of kiddos that could be in this home-based category up to 10 children that are not related to the individual in the household. And it, you know, it just makes sure that there is enough transparency and information to the parents about safety and that is what the bill does. If we do have an amendment, Mr. Uh, present prote, and if I can just speak, is an amendment under my name. And what we do here is we wanted to make sure we were working with the current home base, um, already licensed childcare, uh, facilitators and providers. And, you know, there's, for us what we're trying to target is a desert. So childcare desert. So we just are saying that we want rural areas to be our priority when it comes to the, the grants and that we will have, um, the Department of Workforce Services which oversees these grants will be the ones managing these grants. Uh, making sure that they're looking to the proximity of other already, uh, facilities in place. And with that, that's the amendment that I hope to move. Mr. President Pro Temp.

That completes my presentation, Mr. President Pro. Happy to answer any questions.

Thank you Mr. President Pro Tem. As a co-sponsor of this bill, I want to lend my support for years. We've talked about the, the childcare crisis in Utah, the childcare desert. We talk about the lack of available slots and the rising costs for families, but we must be honest with ourselves. It does no good to talk about expanding daycare options if we don't concurrently work on creating more providers. You can build a playground but isn't a park without someone to watch it. Uh, watch the gates. You can fund a classroom but isn't a school without a teacher in the same way. We cannot solve our childcare shortage simply by waiting or wishing for more capacity. We must empower the entrepreneurs and the caregivers who are that capacity and the power of this grant program addresses the root of the supply problem. By establishing these home-based childcare, uh, grants, we are providing the seed capital necessary for Utahans to turn their homes into safe, high quality environments for our children. And these grants are targeted investments. They help prospective providers cover the upfront cost of safety equipment, CPR training and background checks. This isn't just a Go Government program, it's a small business incubator for the most essential service in our economy. And as we deliberate on it, let's remember why we're here. Um, the strength of a nation derives from the integrity of the home. And when we take care of our children and support our families, we aren't just performing a service, we're securing our future. Uh, I wanna acknowledge, um, my gratitude to, um, to Senator Escamilla for her tireless work and leadership on this bill and her commitment to finding pragmatic bipartisan solutions for Utah's families. And it's evident in every line of, of this legislation, it's been a privilege to work alongside her to ensure that childcare is not just a buzzword, but a reality for every working parent in our state. So let's stop talking about the gap and start funding the bridge. Thank you.

Um, thank you Mr. President Prote and I just wanna, again, thank the efforts and you'll see those bills coming and, and Senator Valerie has some of them. So happy to continue this conversation and hope for your support. Thank, thank you. Call the question.

of home-based childcare at homes. We wanna provide parents with more choices. What we're gonna do here is provide a, um, increasing access to childcare by having grants for home-based providers. So they can get, um, their business in place open and running. And, um, this is at the same time, we're gonna make sure that all the individuals that are gonna be taking care of kiddos just get their, um, criminal background checks. That's just basic, um, um, minimum criteria. So we know that these individuals can do that. And, um, we're moving the unlicensed home-based providers from eight to 10 kids. So again, more kids, uh, places like homes. If parents wanna do that, which is important, um, that stability is an opportunity to just increase more availability in a more affordable way for parents so they can be, uh, providing for their families and also have their kids in a safe place. And we're specifically targeting rural Utah, where we have more childcare deserts. Mr. President Pro Tempa, I'm open for any questions.