S.B. 218 Constable Modifications: transcript

Okay. So constables are a position in Utah that are actually established by the Utah Constitution. And while their duties have probably significantly changed since the Constitution was established, they still play a pretty relevant part in our, uh, legal ecosystem. Um, however, how they are appointed is, is kind of a, a relic from those early days. And, and they're appointed by counties and they're appointed by cities of a certain size. Uh, the problem that's arising is that a lot of these counties and cities don't really have oversight over them. Uh, there's, there's been question about whether Department of Public Safety actually has oversight. And so as, as these questions have arisen, more and more counties and cities are less, less and less inclined to appoint constables because they don't really have oversight. About 15, maybe 20 years ago, maybe, maybe longer, we gave constables also statewide authority. So they, they could be appointed in Twila County, for example, but be serving civil process in St. George. And if they do something weird in St. George and they've, a complaint is lodged, nobody knows where that complaint goes to. Maybe it goes back to Tula County who says, what, what am I supposed to do with this? And so, more and more counties have decided to not renew, uh, constable licenses or appointments, thereby, uh, contracting that, that market more and more and more over, over the course of time recently, Salt Lake County made that same decision, and Salt Lake County appoints about a third, a third of the remaining constables in the state of Utah. So rather than contract that further, we decided, let's, let's figure out a path where we can actually house constables, house their licensure, and provide a little bit of oversight and provide a cleaner path for people that want to provide these civil services and, and other constable services for, for cities and counties, uh, and, and really define what that does. So that's what this bill does. It does not eliminate constables. It does not expand their powers. It does not create new bureaucracies for counties. Instead, it ensures that when constables, uh, exercise their, their authority, they meet uniform statewide standards and are accountable to the public. Um, let's see. Oh, actually there's a substitute as well, the Sub. I just, I just noticed that.

Yeah, the substitute adds some licensure requirement related to experience. And so, um, I have some parties still talking to me. This, some of this may be up for debate still, but, but right now, I think it's important that we adopt the sub so we can put some of these licensure requirements in there.

Yeah. I'll make the motion that we delete title and body of Senate bill two 18 and replace it with first substitute Senate bill of two 18.

Okay. So this moves constables from counties with, that previously had minimal oversight, if any, from Department of Public Safety. And not, not that any agencies were doing anything wrong, it's just nobody, nobody really knew who or how oversight was appropriate or anything like that. So we're, we've worked with the agencies, we're gonna move it under Doppel. Doppel is willing to accept this set up, the licensing, licensing procedures and, and the complaint procedures. And that's, that's essentially what this bill does.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Mitchell Park. I'm the legal counsel for the Salt Lake County Council, and I'm here in that capacity to represent the council's support of this legislation and to thank Senator Colmore for his, um, his excellent work and leadership in this space. Over the last few years, I've gotten to know the constables quite well, um, and have, have coordinated with them. And as Salt Lake County is one of the few remaining jurisdictions that still appoints constables, and our council recognizes the need for these individuals to continue providing a service to the legal community, to those who access our courts, and at the same time recognize that, um, our legislative body is probably not the appropriate entity to continue appointing and supervising law enforcement, um, officials who have statewide jurisdiction. And so, um, our council is highly supportive of this legislation. We thank Senator Cole Moore for his work, and, um, the council definitely pledges it. Its continued work in transitioning, uh, existing constables to a new model should this legislation be approved. Thank you.

You Mr. Chair Committee. Be Mason Commissioner for the Utah Department of Public Safety. We have, uh, worked closely with Senator Colmore early on with this and think this does make good adjustments that keeps the accountability in place. Um, DPS really doesn't have any oversight in here, and so that's been a, a concern amongst the law enforcement community of where that falls. And so I think this really clarifies a lot of those things and keeps a valuable service in place that needs to be there. Um, also as a side note, uh, LALC, um, they could not make it, but ask that we show the support for from the LLC as well. Thank you.

Right. Thank you. Yeah. I'm Seth Stewart. I live in American Fork and I'm representing myself. Um, I, I have significant concerns with this bill because the, the constables aren't really an outdated, uh, instrument of law enforcement. They, they actually enjoy, uh, appointment or election through local people, through their municipal or county governments. Uh, and, and they're, they've historically been an instrument for, uh, enforcing orders of a court, for example. And if we make that a state licensed or state managed role, I understand that there are efficiency gains to be had through doing that. Uh, but it does interfere with some crucial checks and balances. I, I think, uh, anybody who is really aware of the issues of, of centralized control over police authority, uh, understands that there could be some, some issues with that, and it effectively erases that more localized role of law enforcement. Um, there's this principle of popular sovereignty on which all the United States are based, that the federal government is a creation of the states. The states are not creatures of the federal government. And the same applies to our municipal and county governments relative to the state government. Uh, the, the municipal municipalities and counties are not creatures of the state. The state exists pursuant to and courtesy of the, the municipalities and county governments. And in order to preserve local autonomy and sovereignty, in order to really have any, any meaningful barrier there, there needs to be an insulation between the powers of, of the state government and the local powers. If you're going to have a municipal government enforce laws, if you're going to have county regulations, et cetera, there needs to be localized enforcement, not generalized statewide enforcement. And that. Thank

I will make the motion that we favorably recommend first substitute Senate bill two 18.

If I can say, Yeah. Chair, come back to you. I've, I've worked with a lot of the stakeholders as you, as you've heard counties, uh, talked with UAC and their general counsel, um, worked with the constables, worked with, uh, uh, DPS and Dopel and I, I believe we we're pretty close to a consensus bill, if not there. And so we may work on modifying a little bit some of the licensure stuff, but, but the intent and purpose of this bill has, has consensus, so

Well, I guess we were in summation.

Either way. I'll just tell 'em, I'll just real quick, I was just gonna make a comment to the motion, but public comment said that You can explain your vote.

I'll wait and do that. Do you want me to do it now?

I'm voting. Aye but, uh, you know, article, uh, I'm trying to remember if it's Title 10, chapter one. Uh, go look at section. I'm not sure 3 0 3 or wherever the definitions are on that section. Cities, counties are all defined as subdivisions of the state. That is the title and a unfortunately, the last public comment started off with a false premise. Um, I'd go even further and say that the Utah Constitution, uh, article 11, 10 or 11, article 11, I think is right. Uh, also makes it clear that the powers of the cities, the counties, the states, every, everything is a delegation of power from the state. And so this may, you know, I'm not sure, I'm still trying to decide on the policy, but I wanted to make sure from a public comment standpoint that we at least got the law right before, um, you know, we got too far off. So I'm voting Aye. And there you go.

I can do this quick. So, constables have been a thing in Utah since, since the foundation of Utah. They're actually in the Constitution, but you know, there, there's purposes and s have changed over time. Uh, historically they've been appointed by counties and cities that meet a certain size, but about 20 years ago, we gave them statewide jurisdiction. And so that became problematic for some of these counties and cities who are appointing constables, where they were serving all over the state. And they didn't really have supervisory oversight. They didn't know what they were doing. The, the, the county councils, I should say, not the constables. And so it's possible that you could get a complaint from St. George and Salt Lake County and you're like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. And it's always been by appointment. So it's kind of a political process, but you have to meet certain criteria to be a constable. Anyway, Salt Lake County was proposing to do away with all of their appointed constables, which is about a third of the remaining constables in Utah. Um, and, and talking to, and, and that would've really constricted the market for the use of these constables without many other counties or cities willing to appoint new constables. And in fact, other cities and counties contemplating getting rid of them as well. So the thought was, we've gotta find a place to house constables. And so I talked to the Department of Public Service, um, and, and talking with them and talking about all this, we ended up talking to Doppel. Doppel is going to house constables. They've, this bill moves Constable licensure over to Doppel. It establishes the criteria to become a constable. It provides reg regulation and oversight for constables. It provides for deputy constables and apprentice constables. So you can work your way up. Uh, constables can still contract with counties or cities to do whatever work they might need there, but then they can do all their other civil process under their licensure that they'll have with Doppel. And that is essentially the bill.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I honestly don't know too much about constables and, and how important they are to different jurisdictions. Who, can you talk about which stakeholders you've worked with on this and where they stand?

Yeah. So, um, constables primarily at this point serve civil process. So they work with private attorneys and, and law groups and stuff like that. But they still do contract with cities or counties to do bailiff work and other, maybe other warrant work and stuff like that. So I've talked to, I've, I've worked with uac, Salt Lake County, um, I've worked with the constables, I worked with Doppel, worked with Department of Public Safety, and nobody has spoken against this bill. And in fact, they've all had input. And I believe, I believe it's a consensus Bill.

I, I guess that's why I'm kind of bringing up 'cause I haven't heard anything about anyone lobbying against this bill, which kind of seems like you're doing pretty substantive change to, to how it works here in Utah. But I'm surprised we haven't had anyone come out against this. So, uh, good, good work on not getting these guys to work against your bill, but thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I had a question from a constituent, just wondering who handles, uh, conflicts of interest? Would that be Doppel in this case?

Um, well, Doppel will have regulatory oversight as, as for conflict of interest. I'm not, I, I guess I don't know what the fact scenario would be, but yeah, Doppel would have re regulatory oversight of this side.

Perfect. Thank you, Senator.

Thank you. So Senator, I ran a bill a few years ago, uh, in support of constables that gave them a little more, uh, ability to protect themselves, uh, in some of the sensitive stuff that they had to do, that that constables can find themselves in some very difficult situations, uh, especially if they're making a call, uh, where there's, uh, some domestic violence involved and stuff like that. And, uh, so I have a real soft heart for constables, but I guess my question is, can you explain to us a little bit what the difference is between a constable unlike typical law enforcement and, uh, who would have jurisdiction on a particular call, whether it's civil or otherwise?

So constables are usually doing work by contract. Mm-hmm. And so they may be out serving civil process, they may be out executing writ of, uh, restitution or writ of execution, meaning they're taking property or enforcing court orders. And so usually that's gonna be done civilly. And so it, it's civil attorneys or civil parties that are gonna hire constables typically to go out and do this. Um, and they can find themselves in Harry situations for sure. And to be a constable, even under this bill, you have to have gone through at least, uh, I may say this wrong, but like half of post post training or police academy. And so they're, but oftentimes the constables are former police officers or something like that. So they have, they have training. Ideally though, when a civil matter rises to the level of criminal, um, historically that, that's been a little bit of a gray area where constables, because they have that law enforcement training and background and their licensure contemplates that a little bit, they can take some action, but ideally they call local law enforcement when it escalates to like, uh, one of those hairy situations. Yeah.

Great. Thank you. So, uh, I, uh, I don't have any doubts that Doppel could handle this, but I, I guess my question, my other question would be, has, does Doppel have any, uh, track record or experience in this particular area or similar areas?

Um, probably not as up to date, but I, I would say this, nobody else that was doing oversight did DDPS didn't have any oversight over this. The counties alleg are alleging they didn't really have any oversight or the cities post didn't have any oversight. So, no. So we're going from no oversight to some oversight. And in addition to constables moving over here, uh, uh, private investigators and bail bonds are also gonna be licensed under, that's not in this bill, but that was another bill that, that they're moving to Doppel As well. So it just makes sense to have that. All right there. Okay.

Ready. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair Committee. Be Mason Commissioner for the Utah Department of Public Safety. Just to clarify a couple of those things. They do still maintain their post certification as a special function officer. So the senator refers to half a post. And the way that works is when they're acting under the authority of a jurisdiction, they still have law enforcement authority to take those actions. So that doesn't change under this bill. Um, and that does still give post the authority to take action if there's misconduct or those types of things that occur. So DOPPEL will handle the, the training requirements and the regulatory authority and post will still oversee the licensure as a special function officer. So we do think it's a good blend. We, we are very supportive of going this route to maintain this as a, as a practice that is needed, but still giving them the oversight and the training they need to, to properly carry out their duties.

Uh, I have a quick question for you. Yes. So, uh, I think this is a follow up to what I was inquiring about earlier, but, uh, in, if a situation calls for it, they're, they, they can take a certain level of authority, but at some point they're probably gonna need to make sure they're, they have law enforcement onsite with them.

Yes, correct. So, so their SFO gives them, so the difference between a, a law enforcement officer, we call it LEO and an SFO, is as a law enforcement o officer, I have authority 24 7 on duty or off duty. I can take law enforcement action, a special function officer, an SFO, which a constable is, they have authority during their working hours when acting in that role. And so when they encounter something, they will have, they will still have that as FO to fall back on and take some law enforcement action. And speaking to the original question, they, it doesn't give them jurisdiction. So you're, you're correct. They would need to call, say they're operating in Sandy City, they could take whatever action they needed to, to, to stop the situation or, or bring it into compliance, and then they would need to get Sandy involved because it would be their jurisdiction for a criminal offense or, or action.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the bill I, I did a few years ago, uh, reclassify, constables as peace officers. So they are a peace officer. Yeah. Just like a lot of our other law enforcement agents. Okay.

Hi. Good afternoon committee. Thank you for the time. I'm Mitchell Park, the legal counsel for the Salt Lake County Council. I wanted to, um, just testify briefly that the council is highly supportive of this bill. We appreciate Senator Cole Moore's excellent work in this area. Having brought together many diverse stakeholders, we recognize the need for, um, continued constable services to make our legal system function effectively in our state. And we're just appreciative of this effort to help bring some consistency and state oversight to an area where we think it would most be appropriate. We handled. And, um, thank the committee for its time.

To move that we adopt or pass out Senate bill two 18 second substitute.

Yeah, I appreciate the motion. Um, I'll just say, Constable serve an important part of the, the legal process and legal, um, ecosystem still. And so it's important that we find a place where they can still get licensed, get housed, and many cities and counties for, for potentially good reason and liability reasons where constricting that and, and not wanting to maintain the oversight there. And so this, this creates a path that allows for the continued survival of constables.

I'll, I'll just say thank you for bringing this bill. Uh, I think it's a good bill and, uh, our, our constables are very important to our society, so I appreciate that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've done quite a, quite a few things with special function officers this year and I get it's an important part of the solution across the board, um, all sorts of areas. So thank you for the creativity and that's all. Thank you.

Question. Adjourn.

Go. Thank you President. So the, this bill was brought to me by Salt Lake County. Um, many of you may or may not interact with constables, but that's been a position in Utah for many, many decades. I, I think actually since the inception of our state, the evolution of constables has changed though obviously, and largely now they, they serve a lot of civil process. Um, and, but, but we've retained the way that they become constables through appointment of county or city officials. However, 15, 20 years ago, something like that, we changed that They have statewide jurisdiction, which posed a problem to cities and counties that are appointing constables and don't really have much oversight or anything like that when they're doing civil process in other parts of the state. Further, the counties don't feel like they really have much oversight at all anyways and, and weren't sure what they're even doing with these positions. And more and more cities and counties have been reluctant to appoint constables that's contracted the market significantly. And so Salt Lake County was looking to do away with all of their constables, which is about a third of the remaining constables in the state of Utah. So they were asked to hold off on that with the promise that we would run a bill and move the constable position to a different agency in the state. So I've worked with various agencies in the State Department of Public Safety. Uh, Doppel was decided that we would house constables under Doppel. So this bill does that. It establishes the licensing procedure, establishes what the oversight would be. It establishes how you become a constable and establishes their jurisdiction. I will note that there will be some little technical changes in a, in another substitute that I'll do, but it's not substantive in nature. And with that, I'm open to any questions.

A motion is that we read first substitute Senate Bill two 18 for a third time.

Yeah, some of these are just technical changes. Some of them, uh, further explain what it would take for a constable to get a license. Uh, as we, as I previously mentioned on this bill, we're moving the license licensure of constables from counties and cities to Doppel. And so as they oversee this new license, um, it, it just beefs up or I guess makes it more explicit what some of those requirements will be like moving the age to 21, requiring certain number of hours requiring that they have post certification. And then it creates a, a deputy constable license licensure as well as a, as an apprentice. And so this, this sub further defines those.

Uh, yeah, if I may, president to the bill. This, the, the need for this bill was brought to me by Salt Lake County. They had decided that they were no longer interested in licensing constables. Um, they, they were one of the jurisdictions that was still licensing constables. Most have got away from that. And so if they were no longer gonna license constables, that would take away the license of about a third of the constables in the state. And, and it also signaled to other cities and counties that they were possibly gonna restrict constables. Constables still serve a pretty vital role in civil process. And so the thought was, where can we put, where can we house constables that they can still be licensed, have appropriate oversight? And so in discussing with Salt Lake County, um, we brought in the Department of Public Safety. We brought in Department of Professional Licensing and had conversations and it was decided that DOPPEL could best house these, uh, house these licenses. And Senator Weiler ran a bill earlier this year that also moved private investigators and bail bonds licensing to Doppel. So it just kind of fit that all of these would go together. So they're doing, so that's basically what we're doing. Moving constables from under cities and counties to Doppel. They would basically be serving the same function, but now that the, now they would have oversight from, from Doppel and a, a cleaner process to actually become licensed as oppo as opposed to like a, an appointment, which is more like a political process. Um, and that's, that's largely what we're doing. We're defining how they can deputize constables and how they can have apprentice constables and that work under that license. And they'll continue to serve state statewide civil process. This still allows them to contract with the city or accounts CO or, uh, city or county for constable type duties at Justice Courts or otherwise. And with that, I'm open to any questions.

With a sponsor yield. Senator Cullimore, will you yield? Yes, go ahead, Seth.

Senator Cullimore, Listen to your presentation. Um, so we're taking them where they've been contracted with cities or counties and we're gonna put 'em, make 'em a statewide license so that they could go anywhere. Is that the way I understand it, Senator Cullimore

That that's true, but about 20 years ago, maybe more, um, statute allowed for them to work statewide anyways. And so that's part of the concern of counties is they're giving, they're the ones issuing the license. But if they, you know, if, if, uh, you, Uintah County decided to appoint a constable, that constable could do work in Cash County or in Washington County or wherever. And so that's part of the concern of counties is we, we issue the license, but then they could work anywhere where we, where we don't have jurisdiction. So it was, it was really at Salt Lake County's request to say, put this, since they have statewide jurisdiction already, we should house them where the license would have, uh, statewide oversight.

I don't see any further discussion, but again, I don't see a fiscal note either, so yeah, I probably have to do on that. See if you can catch that fiscal note.

Senator Plumb. Thank you Mr. President. Um, I do have an amendment. I would like to move on this bill. I can do a little explaining and what that is

what the requirements will be to get that license. It provides oversight, uh, and enforcement of that licensure within Dopel. It also allows constables to continue doing what they're doing, but they can also contract with counties or cities for constable type services.

For a motion Move that we pass second substitute Senate bill two 18.

of the president. Madame Reading Clerk Second substitute Senate bill two 18 Constable Modifications by Senator Cullimore. This bill was heard in Business and Labor with a vote of 12 0 4. The house sponsor is Representative Teuscher.

Representative Shipp. I move to circle.

I'll

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Um, colleagues, you may or may not know that the Office of a Constable is actually one of the oldest law enforcement roles in the English speaking, um, legal tradition. It dates back over 1000 years. Um, in fact, when it, it started, you know, you think Constable, it comes from the Latin meaning come stub eye, uh, which means count of the stable. So originally these constables were in charge of the Royal Cavalry, and over the years, their, um, their roles continued to shift over and over. Um, in the 12th century, they were local officials responsible for ensuring compliance. Uh, in the 13th century, they formalized the watch and ward system, um, and were responsible for something that I thought was really interesting, the right, the raising of the hue and cry when a crime occurred. So the Huon cry, uh, interestingly was they would go around whenever they determined that, uh, a crime had had happened and, and go throughout the village and shout and ring bells and let everyone know that a crime occurred and then everyone was supposed to drop whatever they were doing and follow the constable and go and figure out who committed this crime. Um, as, uh, as the future came really in the 15 hundreds and 17 hundreds, you had more organizing of, of actual police forces, um, in, in Great Britain. Um, they didn't really have professional police forces until the 19th centuries, but you, you started to see constables and night watchmen and sheriffs that carried out most of the law enforcement duties. Um, in the United States, constables have always, um, fulfilled a really important role, and that continues to shift every day, even to today. Um, within Utah, the role of a constable has changed quite a bit, um, from when we became a state back in 1896 to today. However, it still remains a very important role in our legal e ecosystem. Um, in particular, constables are typically charged with serving legal processes and assisting courts. They can serve as bailiffs or court security. Um, but a lot of what they do is go and serve papers, um, either summons on people or maybe debt collections and, and other types of, um, uh, uh, important documents that need to be served. Um, under our current law, constables are appointed by counties and by certain cities. Now, about 15 to 20 years ago, the legislature made a change that granted constables statewide authority. And before they were just, uh, certified to do any actions within whatever county or city that they were, um, certified in. Um, however that change, though it's been great and allowed constables to do a lot more things within our state, uh, it has caused a few issues. Um, one of the issues is that that appointment process is, is very cumbersome between, from city to city and is is different depending on where you go. Uh, many cities and counties lack any sort of oversight or they're unsure of who has any oversight over these constables. If one county, uh, registers a constable and they're doing work in a different county, if there's a complaint about that constable, who do they bring it to? And who hears that type of a complaint? Um, because constables have the statewide authority, uh, there, there really is no clear method for how someone might raise these types of complaints. Um, recently, Salt Lake City, uh, who appoints approximately one third of the remaining constables in the state chose just not to renew their constables, which has also put a, a, a little bit of a weight on the system because so many constables were being registered out of the Salt Lake City system. So what Senate Bill two 18 does is it's, it creates a clear and uniform statewide licensure and oversight process for registering constables. It moves the oversight to the Department of Occupational and Professional Licensing, um, so that you would receive that licensing there rather than getting it through the, the county or certain cities. What it doesn't do is it doesn't eliminate constables, it doesn't expand their power or their scope of responsibility, nor does it create any sort of new bureaucracies for counties and cities to have to deal with. Really what this bill does is modernizes our oversight of our constitutional, um, constables and moves them into a uniform statewide licensure program under Doppel. And with that Mr. Speak, I'm happy to answer any questions about the bill.

Thank you Mr. Speaker with the sponsor, yield

So do these constables, if they're statewide officers, do they have to, uh, be some sort of paralegal or, uh, police training like, uh, the academy or whatever?

Thank, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, no, there is no formal police training for, for any of these constables. Um, but it, it, it ranges from, uh, the cities and the counties for what type of requirements they have for that licensure. Um, what this bill would do is, is formalize that process and allow for doppel to come up with the uniform requirements for the statewide constables across the state.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.