S.B. 240 Higher Education Institutional Governance: transcript

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Committee members, um, many of you might be aware, uh, may be on committees that, uh, we did an audit performance audit of Utah State University. There was one audit performed on the presidential spending at Utah State University, and they were able to, um, dig deep enough that they felt like they needed to go back. This was the comprehensive audit that they did at Utah State University. What we have here in the, in SB two 40, uh, this bill addresses, um, some of the things that they able to find at Utah State University that we needed to put into code, uh, the first, uh, area, it refines and strengthens the roles and responsibilities of our boards of trustees. Uh, this includes preparing the institutional strategic plan, evaluating the institution's president, collaborating with the institution's president on budgetary policy and more presidential spending oversight. The Board of Higher Education would provide independent staff for each institution's board of trustees. The second area, each institution's board of trustees would be the institution's internal Audit Committee. Uh, the third is clarifies the role of institutions, general counsel, specifically the administrative offices and general counsel are at will employees serving at the pleasure of the institution's president. If that Mr. Uh, uh, chair, I'd like to have Commissioner Jeff Landward. Uh, just, uh, talk a little bit about the bill and, uh, about the audit and some of the things that we've, we've done to, uh, uh, I think to remedy some of the issues that we found at Utah State.

Thank you, chair. Jeff Landward, commissioner of Higher Education. I appreciate, uh, the collaboration that the sponsor has provided the system of higher education as we've reviewed the findings of this, uh, I think, critical audit of Utah State. Uh, we we're grateful for the insight that the audit provided, but interestingly, this was an audit of a specific institution, yet it bore some findings that I think exposed weaknesses and, and the need for clarification in the law when it comes to governance. And so I'm here today to speak on the, uh, the, the portions of the law that deal specifically with governance. And in the, in the audit, you'll see that, uh, many of the findings, uh, find that the, the, uh, problems stem from, from issues around lack of oversight and, and failure and leadership. And what I gleaned from that audit as I read it, was that the audit specifically is finding that the boards of trustees have an oversight role. And that, uh, they need to meet that oversight role to ensure that we have no further findings like we had in this audit. I found that the problem with those findings are that there is a lack of clarity around the fact that the Board of Trustees does have that oversight role. Now, it's clear that the Board of Higher Education has that oversight role that's spelled out specifically in law. But, uh, the board of trustees, uh, having that role, I felt like needed to be clarified to ensure that the boards of trustees, in fairness, understand the scope and responsibilities that they have as trustees to work on behalf of. And with, uh, in, in alignment with the Board of Higher Education and exercising the responsibility to control, oversee, and regulate the system of higher education. Trustees would do it at an institutional level. The board would continue to do it at a system level. Uh, these changes help clarify that, and also provide more support and, and guidance to boards of trustees, all of whom are volunteers, taking on a significant, but a very important responsibility to ensure that they're adequately supported, that they're adequately guided and given the resources that they need to execute that responsibility, uh, effectively and successfully for the benefit of our institutions and the benefit of the state, the students, and the system of higher education. So we appreciate the work that Sponsor has done to help us provide that clarity, uh, as well as the other clarity around the scope of the responsibilities of Presidents versus the trustees and the Board of Higher Education.

Uh, and Mr. Chair, if I may, um, I appreciate also there's been a lot of work done with Representative sny and Representative Corinne Peterson also helped in the bill, also Commissioner Landward and the higher ed board of, of Higher education, uh, chair, um, Amanda Cummington and also P President Mortenson has also, uh, been very, very helpful in, in working on this bill to, again, to, um, try and remedy some of the issues that we found at Utah State. So with that, I'll happy to answer any questions, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Senator. Um, just a quick question on the, uh, fiscal note on this bill. It looks like that the salary on this particular role is, uh, and, and fully benefited salary is about 300,000. What, uh, what, what exactly is it? Because it sounded almost like an auditor that they were hiring, but it, it's, it's something more or less than that. I, I'll let, I'll let the commissioner answer that.

Yeah. Yeah. We, I mean, what we're using as a model you'll see with, for example, with corporate boards, uh, it, it's a board professional. This is a person likely to have legal training, but they're not serving as an attorney to their board. They're really serving as, as an, a consultant and a guide to help boards, not only with procedure and, and understanding the scope of their responsibility, but gathering information, helping them interpret information, being a liaison between the institution and the board, and also a liaison between the board and the board of Higher Education. So this person has to have a high level of expertise in those areas to be able to manage those relationships, understand governance, and be able to help award execute on that, that governance. Perfect.

That, I think that answers my Question. Okay. I just, we can wait, I can elaborate more on what we found, but, Well, I think my initial read on this was, it was someone more in a, in Yeah. In a compliance type role. Yeah. And I thought that salary range seemed a bit higher.

These are multi-billion dollar institutions, and so we, we wanted to make sure and give the resources we needed to the trustees. And we found at Utah State University, having the presidential staff, staff, the trustees there was problematic at times on what kind of information was being provided to the trustees. So this, this, this will be a, a great move to help all our trustees, uh, throughout all the institutions. Perfect.

Yeah, I, I, no, I actually, I very much appreciate the question. And role distinctiveness and role discipline, I think is becoming more and more critical as we start to try and operate a system of higher education more efficiently. One thing I will point out is in, in the board of Higher Education's list of, of statutory duties, one of those is to ensure that institutions are staying within and meeting their specific role as de as designated by law and also by the Board of Higher Education. And that also a part of the president's performance would be measuring, uh, their ability to keep their institution within that mission and role. Because this, uh, legislation extends those responsibilities, the boards of trustees. I think that that would be covered by incorporating, by reference that list that the Board of Higher Education already has.

Uh, so I move to pass out with a favorable recommendation, HB two 40, higher education Institutional Governance substitute one.

Um, I do. I, I really appreciate, um, all the work that's gone into this, um, and just in response to the audit. And it feels like it's been a, a good thorough process that is needed and, and will be beneficial. So thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you members. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Appreciate that. And I do have a first sub that I'd like to move whenever that is appropriate.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And that's what I'll be speaking to. What, what this bill does. Higher education, institutional governance. Uh, this is basically the answer to the audit that went on, uh, concerning Utah State University and other higher education institutional governance, other, other institutions. So, um, this bill addresses governance for the higher education, including the role of institutions, boards of trustees. Uh, I may add that we've been working very closely, uh, with President Brad Mortenson, and also, of course, commissioner Jeff Landward and the Yi Board and others, as we, uh, put this, uh, bill together. And as many of you know, the audit came out. And again, this is, this is just in response to that audit and their recommendations. This refines and strengthens the roles and responsibilities of institutional boards of trustees. This includes preparing the institution's strategic plan, conducting annual evaluations of the institution's president, collaborative efforts with the institutional president on budgetary policy and greater oversight for presidential spending. The bill also directs the Utah Board of Higher Education, the board, to provide independent staff for each institution's board of trustees. It establishes each institution's board of trustees as the institutionals Internal Audit Committee clarifies the role of institutions, general counsel, and specifies that administrative officers and general counsel are at will employees and serve at the pleasure of the institution's president. The institutional board, this is basically talking about the institutional boards of trustees, the roles and duties. It defines and clarifies the role of boards of trustees for institutions of higher education. Some of the provisions are new. Some better define existing requirements and some add duties, not currently in statute, but happening in practice. The duties for the board of trustees would include among others, the strategic plan to prepare, approve, and monitor str strategic plan. In consultation with stakeholders in the institution's region, the plan would align with state attainment goals, the institution's mission, and the board's strategic plan. Among other things, the institutional president participate in the presidential searches, establish metrics for and conduct an annual evaluation of the president's performance. Consult with the president on the organization and structure of the institution and the organization and governance of personnel, including faculty. It establishes policies for presidential spending, including spending thresholds at which presidents must notify the board of trustees. It reviews and approves the institutional programs, awards and, and credentials in line with statute and board guidelines. This could also, this could include approving, changing, and terminating programs. To meet workforce needs, budgetary policies and institutional budget, it requires the board of trustees to assist the institution's president in creating a budgetary policy. Currently, the president's duty and other budgetary processes, it directs boards of trustees to approve the institutionals annual budget, tuition and fees. It approves the institutionals tuition and fees recommendations to the board. Uh, internal audits oversee internal audits of the institution. The board of trustees would serve as the internal audit committee or create a subcommittee for that purpose. The staffing, it directs the board to provide staff to independently advise and support each institution's board of trustees. And this also talks about the Board of Trustees membership for technical colleges. The current law requires technical colleges, the board of trustees, to include representation from local school boards in the institutional service region. Technical colleges with more than four school districts in the region would be required to create a rotation schedule for local school board representation. Existing law allows president to appoint or employ various administrative offices. This bill would clarify that administrative officers, cabinet members, and general counsel are at will employees and serve in the roles at the pleasure of the president. Direct the board to make rules defining the scope of duties and responsibilities for institutional attorneys. Prohibit institutional attorneys from serving in a role outside of this scope of authority, or a non-legal administrative role, or other administrative office prohibits institutional presence from retaining outside legal counsel to prosecute or defend litigation that is currently in code. That's where we added with a substitute. Um, this just clarifies, uh, that, um, the first, I guess the first phone call they should make is the Attorney General's office. So, budget recommendations. The current law requires the board to provide the legislature with budget recommendations. This bill would require those budget recommendations to include employee compensation for its institution, demonstrating that the institution is meeting the board's, teaching and instructional workload metrics, employee compensation data for each institution, including the amount of institution spends on staffing and other compensation metrics. Finally, the bill would allow institutions to use legislative appropriations for compensation for merit or market based increases. Like I said, Mr. Chair, uh, this is just an answer to the, to the audit that was just, uh, released. What was in last week? Was it last Friday? I believe it was. And, um, again, this has been a, a, a bill that we've been actually working on for a few, few weeks. Again, with Jeff, uh, commissioner Landward, the Yushi board's input. Again, president Brad Mortenson. Uh, we, we call out to President Mortenson has done an amazing job at Utah State University and also with, uh, working with the Board of Trustees. And Tessa Tessa White, who is the chair of that, uh, of that, uh, uh, trustees. So, uh, that should conclude my presentation, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I'm looking at the audit that you're referencing. Is that the audit that was, uh, conducted with, um, Utah Systems of Higher Education Governance, or was it the Utah State University audit? This was the Utah State University audit that was released on Friday. Thank you. Um, I, I like a lot that's in this bill, but I think when we think about an audit to Utah State University and then changing all of our guidelines across all institutions, it feels a little heavy handed. Um, I recognize that we have some things to learn about what happened with Utah State University, but I also think that, um, I think a lot of school, this schools are doing a great job. I think that some of the stuff that we're asking Utah State to firm up is, um, maybe a little bit of overreach towards our other, um, technical colleges. And, uh, like I said, I like some of the stuff in this bill, but other parts I, I'm a little, um, hesitant to support. So, um, I might not be passing this out of committee, but I'd love to ask you some more questions about some of these other things and support it on the floor, Mr. Chair, if I could.

Yeah, no, and I, I appreciate that. Um, like I mentioned, uh, these are all recommendations from the ushi board and also from the, the, uh, chair, uh, Jeff Landward, well, not the chair, but the commissioner, and, and I agree with you that obviously the audit in Utah state and uncover some very concerning. Uh, but we, we didn't include everything that we found in Utah State in this bill. This was, um, a lot of it was already taken care of. A lot of it is already in code, and a lot of it was, uh, personnels that these personnel that decided not to follow code, and we didn't increase code, code for things like procurement and others that were not followed Utah State. This was a, a compromise bill between, like I said, the Yui board, the Yui Commissioner, and obviously with input from, uh, president, um, Mortenson. Uh, but, but this, like I said, is, is a bill that I, I think the, the commissioner felt we needed help in other institutions. And I, I don't think it's heavy handed. I don't think it's far reaching. I think these are changes that we needed system wide, and that's why I followed what the commissioner, um, recommended.

Um, so what, you mentioned that a couple of these pieces are already in code, and we're just bringing them over, but when I see it in red, it, it always means new code to me. So I'm concerned with outside legal counsel. I guess that's previous code. And then also, I'm a little concerned with, uh, lines 1 48 that talks about each, uh, from no more than four of the local school boards for the school districts. I, I don't see that in the audit, but like I said, maybe we can have a conversation more in depth about some of these things, because I didn't recognize this was a response to that audit. And when I look at that audit, some of these things don't match up for me, but maybe you can explain them better to me later.

As, as I mentioned, the bill is, is in response to the audit, but it also, uh, is in, you know, other things that the comm, again, the commissioner and the Yohi board asked to put in the bill. So, uh, I I, I, I'd be happy to get you more information on why they put that in, but those were, those were things that the yushi board asked for.

Okay. Yeah. I'll, and they were, you're right. They weren't in the audit, but Thank you. I'll talk to the yushi board and, um, maybe we can have a better understanding. Thank you.

That's a great question. Uh, I'm sure as the, the commissioner is, is, is I'm sure gonna be much very much involved. What happened a few years ago when we, when we went from a, a yui board that was basically 18 people, we went down to nine and a more manageable, uh, board. A lot of the responsibilities that we had in the Yushi board, Uintah, our board of trustees. And so this was something that a lot of board of trustees were not aware of. I know there's a lot of board of trustees that are asking for clarification on what they're supposed to be doing, but I don't think there's any question that this, the, um, uh, the commissioner will definitely be involved with preparing the strategic plans and then, and, um, as they go forward, obviously, to make sure that it fits in with the statewide plan. Yeah, I, I, I noticed the commissioner's here, so maybe he could address that too. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I, at Some point, and Usually I feel his presence, and I just didn't at this time, but come on up, commissioner.

Uh, Jeff Lambert, commissioner of, uh, Utah System of Higher Education, uh, thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate the sponsor of the bill. As he mentioned, uh, reached out to our office to get feedback on draft legislation as that was coming forward. And, uh, I think the, the proper way to frame this is, as it was mentioned earlier, that, that we view this res this as a response from the legislature to the audit. And the audit, in fact, directed the legislature to make some of these changes, or in the absence of the legislature taking action, then the Board of Higher Education to take action on these findings. And we've, uh, already expressed in our audit response, uh, a willingness to address all of those findings that were specific to the system itself, and were prepared to do that. And so it was good for us to be able to work with the sponsor on the language to ensure that it aligned with what we felt like was the right approach, uh, on, on some of those responses. Uh, I, I, I will say that in terms of what, what we were seeking and, and why I think is important, uh, for me to speak to those portions, primarily what I see in this audit is this is an audit whose findings suggest that in many cases, at one of our universities, uh, we had a lack of oversight on what was happening with spending operational decisions, personnel decisions, and other things like that. And that the findings concluded that, uh, that oversight responsibility was primarily the board of trustees. And in some cases, the Board of Higher Education, uh, in, in my view, uh, current statutory language does not clearly articulate that that is the responsibility of the Board of trustees. And yet we have a legislative audit suggesting that not only was it their responsibility, but they failed to meet that responsibility. Now, I don't disagree that, um, boards of trustees should have an oversight role, and in fact, in most cases, boards of trustees have been operating in that way. But without clarity in the law about, well, what is this role and where does it come from? I think we're putting boards of trustees in a very difficult position to still not understand the scope of their role, and then how it aligns with the Board of Higher Education, who clearly has statutory responsibility to oversee and regulate the system of higher education, which is all the institutions. So in, in working with the sponsor on the bill, we wanted to make sure we took particular interest in clearly defining what is the legislature's expectation for boards of trustees. And that if it was going to be oversight as the, as the audit suggested, then let's make that clear and let's also define what the, the scope of that oversight is. Now, what I didn't wanna see happen was have legislative responsibility for the Board of Higher Education to have oversight over the system and the institutions, and then also have boards of trustees have now, uh, legislative responsibility for oversight, and have those two responsibilities conflict with each other. The way I view it is, uh, this is an opportunity to, to, to clearly state the Board of Higher Education has a statewide system level responsibility to oversee the system, but that, that is an impossible thing to do for 16 institutions, that the level necessary to meet the expectations of this audit. So it makes sense with each institution having their own boards of trustees, that the board is operating under the same scope of authority as the Board of Higher Education. All the things listed in terms of what the expectations are for overseeing the system, operating in concert with the Board of Higher Education, and executing their responsibilities to oversee the system. So the best way to think about it is the board of trustees is acting as an extension of the Board of Higher Education, all operating under the same legal framework of this is, this is the scope of your responsibility to oversee and regulate that way. They're not, uh, misaligned, they're not in conflict, they're working together. But in order to do that, we wanna make sure that they're also properly resourced. And so we asked the sponsor to include, uh, resourcing for boards of trustees because these are volunteers with a significant responsibility that are now being enhanced, and they need more support to ensure that they, uh, understand how to execute their duties, uh, have guidance about what the scope of those duties are, if they need correction, about, if they're exceeding their scope, to make sure that they have all of that available to them. And so those are the primary areas that we feel like, uh, since we're working on this, let's, uh, ask the sponsor to help clarify that. Uh, otherwise, the way I view this bill is this is a response to the audit. Our audit responses are, are stated already, and, and we appreciated the opportunity to provide the feedback.

You could, I I'd like to ask you one more question, if that's okay with the sponsor, right?

Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

But, but I, here's the part that kind of hit me was the whole idea of strategy, right? And moving forward. And that's where, that's where I, I think that has to, in my mind, has to be some joint thing, because they also have to align with their role and mission, right? Yeah. And, and so part of that strategy has to be built by ushi as well, I would think. And, and I, I was a little bit concerned in looking at that, that, that maybe in, in saying that's the role of the trustees. We, we forget that, that that has to be in concert with the overall system. Agreed. Does that make sense?

No, I, that's the way I view it. And, you know, to the extent that that's not clear in the language, that I think that's an opportunity to refine that if that's necessary. And, you know, we've been getting feedback from some trustees and other institutional stakeholders saying, well, what, what exactly is happening? Are you taking authority away from trustees, or are you increasing authority? My position is, what we're trying to do is say, this is your authority. You are to oversee your institution in concert with, in alignment with the Board of Higher Education, who has the ultimate responsibility to oversee the system. Uh, when it comes to your question about strategy, this is critical because what we're trying to do is recognize that the legislature has long viewed this system to be operating or should be operating as a system. Yet we had an audit in 2024 that found that we really weren't, in order for us to start executing as a system and having strategies as a system, we need all of the leadership aligned in what we're trying to accomplish, what the missions and roles are, and if we're executing on those missions and roles. So here's an opportunity to set up an infrastructure of oversight and governance that allows the whole system to work as a single system aligned in what we're trying to accomplish. Now, we're trying to accomplish, we cannot do that if we're all operating on different viewpoints of what the system should be and what it shouldn't be. It has to be a partnership with all 16 institutions and the governing board. This structure creates a governance structure that makes sure that all of those, uh, boards of trustees and the board of higher education are aligned, and that we can, that we can, uh, be unified in our vision of what we're trying to accomplish as a system. So I think it's critical that we have that.

Thank you. I, I think, I, I think item C here actually does say that, uh, in consultation with stakeholders in the institutions region, prepare, approve, and monitor progress on a strategic plan for the institution that aligns with. And item four, there actually says board goals and metrics. So yeah, We asked for that too. And, and so I, I, I guess that does kind of clarify that relationship. I just wanted to make sure that we weren't just assigning strategic planning to the trustees without consideration of the system as a whole. So, thank you.

Thank you. May I ask a question of the witness? Sure. Thank you. Um, part of my concern is that when you look at the makeup of a board of trustees, or most of them are appointed by the governor, and, um, when you think about the definition of a trustee, it's supposed to be creating a community, um, strengthening alumni community identification with university traditions. So if you think about what a trustee has been in the past, and then you think about what you're projecting on and into the future, you're now creating a, a, like, as you mentioned, kind of a power struggle. And the, the governor gets to a board, uh, appoint many of these trustees across the whole entire state. Now I'm a member of the Super Minority Party, and, uh, I believe the governor has done a great job, and I believe our Utah, well, just certain things I should say. But you know, like this is a lot of power that we're now giving to our governor to appoint another rule, uh, governing body over all of our universities. So I kind of struggle with us trying to change the roles of our trustees from being a communications, relationships, non-paid position, to now a governing authority of a, uh, super majority that is moving into every corner of our state. So, um, I, I appreciate the audit for Utah State University, and I appreciate some of their abilities to firm up what's going on in our institutions with spending money. And then if we're gonna go back to the audit a few years prior to that, this isn't the same instance. So, uh, I'm confused on what audit we're actually referring to with some of these changes. But also when we think about trustees, I, I have a lot of concern about changing the role of what a trustee does right now. So, um, is that a fair description of what our trustees do?

Well, statutorily it is, uh, in practice, I think it's mixed. And, uh, I've heard feedback from trustees over the, the last few years, and their greatest frustration is, what is our role? We don't know. Uh, you know, and we've tried to help with that. The, the board has broad delegation authority. When I say the board, I mean, the Board of Higher Education already statutorily is directed to delegate to boards of trustees duties and responsibilities that help them, uh, with the operation of the institution as well as presidents. And, and we've issued policies and we've, we've, we've done training to try and help trustees understand where's the demarcation between what a president is doing, what a trustee is doing, what the Board of Higher Education is doing. Uh, but, but there is still ongoing, uh, lack of clarity in this area. So what you've read is exactly the problem, because statutorily, that's primarily what what trustees are asked to do. But we've been asking them to do much more than that now. It, you know, to your point, uh, they are volunteers, and this is a significant responsibility. It's the same with the Board of Higher Education, yet they've been given the responsibility for the entire system. Uh, they have a professional staff in our office that helps them with that. So what we are seeing is, look, if we're going to put this responsibility on trustees, we also need to start thinking about how we're staffing them and how we're supporting them to make sure that they can in fact, meet this obligation. And if it doesn't work, then I guess we need to rethink this. But what I do know is to have the Board of higher Education with the entire responsibility of oversight and regulation of a system, it, it's not set up to do that well, because we're just simply not resourced in the system is too big, but we already have a structure in place that could do this if it's done the right way. So what I see as an opportunity for the legislature to just decide, is this what you want trustees to do? Because they're largely doing that, but without clarity in the law.

My struggle up here too, in this capital building making laws, is that we make too many laws regarding education. And as we start creating more laws for higher education, it is eroding the autonomy of our institutions. And so, if we think about eroding the autonomy of our institutions, we are thinking about why, why would I spend more money to go to University of Utah if I can go to SUU? And they're under the same umbrella with the exact same missions and trustees and appointed board members. So, as someone who likes smaller government and a lack of oversight and heavy hand in this, I, I really struggle with a lot that's in this bill. I do believe that that audit has some merit and that there is some reigning in of how we spend money. But this seems to go too far for me. And I, I, I wanna see the autonomy of our universities maintained. I, I don't think that having a single system in far reaches of the corner named by different names with different pay scales, is where we need to go. So I, I really appreciate the integrity that all of our institutions have. I appreciate how they are microcosms of the place that they are located it, and they really are dedicated to the needs of those communities with hands out to the higher institution to maintain accreditation and, um, auto and, um, reciprocity. But, uh, I struggle with a lot in this bill. So thank you for those answers.

That's exactly right, Mr. Chair. I mean, we're, we, we, I, I know we all want smaller government, but we want efficient government. And obviously there was definitely some needs when we changed the Yui board and, and we didn't provide the trustee boards with the, with the amount of, uh, force well, uh, put guard rails on what the responsibilities are. And I think this bill is long overdue. And we, we, we've been talking about this bill during the spring and summer. Um, we knew the audit was coming. We had a little bit of ideas, but, uh, in talking to many of the board trustees and what we're expecting of them, I think this is a great bill and will definitely help the overall system.

And, um, yeah, the, the governor does get to choose the trustees and we get to con confirm them. And I don't know if the, if the good senator from Salt Lake, if, if she did not, you know, if she voted no on these Senate confirmations for all these board trustees, then uh, that's fine. That's her prerogative of being in the Senate. Well,

Do you Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, I, I, uh, I'd like a, uh, a motion that we, fay recommend first substitute Senate Bill two 40, the full body of the Senate.

Some. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, I, again, I appreciate Commissioner Landward, the Yui board, and all, all those who have helped, uh, uh, kind of mold this bill into, to what I think will be at making sure that it's a more efficient system. Uh, and again, I, I appreciate the support of the committee. I, I think it's good. Bill. Thank you.

You Mr. President Pro temp. I'd like to, I've got an amendment online. I'd like to amend the bill. Amendment one.

Yeah. This amendment, um, we've gotten some input from Yui and the ags office. So we just changed a little bit of the, the, uh, terminology. Uh, we e emphasized that institutional attorneys, cabinet members and other administrators serve the institution, not the president of the institution. And it prohibits institution presidents from hiring or retaining outside counsel to handle litigation without written consent from the ags office. That's what the amendment does.

May. Thank you Mr. President Prote. What this bill is, this is, this is an answer to the audit that was done recently that concluded about Utah State University. The first audit was about the presidential spending the next audit. Dove a little bit deeper into some of the policies and this bill is what, uh, came about that it's been a, uh, uh, a lot of different, uh, entities have talked about or put their inputs as far as the UI Board Commissioner Landward, uh, also the Attorney General's office. Uh, basically what this does, it refines uh, it, it addresses governance for institutions for higher education. Three areas. The role of each institution's board of trustees helps clarify the board of trustees responsibility, the role of institutional presidents and the role of institutional attorneys. It refines and strengthens the role and responsibility of board of trustees to provide needed clarity on their role. The Utah Board of Higher Education would also provide an independent staff for each institution's board of trustees. And this will ensure board of trustees are being advised by staff from outside of the institution. Certainly the board is required to have an institution audit subcommittee. This bill designates the board as the internal audit committee. The board of trustees could then choose to delegate that authority to an audit subcommittee. Each board of trustees must create a spending threshold at which the president must notify the board about the president's expenditures. Requires the president to consult with the board of trustees on things like tuition and fee increases. The institutional organization's structure and the institutionals budget and finance prohibits presence from hiring outside legal counsel to handle litigation. Clarifies administrative officers and general counselors are at will employees serving at the pleasure of the institutionals president prohibits institutional attorneys from serving in an administrative role at the institution, directs the Board of higher education to make rules defining the scope and responsibility of institutional attorneys and providing presence with guidance on creating lines of accountability for the institutional attorneys. Again, Mr. President Pro temp, this is, uh, the bill in response to the audit. Uh, it was done on Utah State University. Of course, this input that we've received from the commissioner of higher ed, also the UI board, plus number of trustees, the President of Utah State and other presidents, um, and also the Attorney General's office. Uh, with that I'd be happy to open up any questions.

Thank you Mr. President Prote. A motion that Senate Bill two 41st substitute as amended. Be read a third time And the question is, shall first substitute Senate bill two 40 as amended?

Do you want a rules committee? Rules Rules Committee.

A motion, Mr. President, that, uh, Senate bill two 41st sub pass.

Senator Vickers Baldry Bwin B Brammer Bus Comore Escamilla Fillmore Grover Harper Hankins Ipson Johnson k Juab McKay Mikel Milner Musselman Owens Cher Plum. Sandal Aye. Stevenson Stratton Bickers. Hello and no Stratton Bickers Weiler Aye. Wilson Aye. Winterton President Adams Aye. First

You Mr. Speaker ProAm. The last several years we've had significant discussions in higher education and many of those discussions have focused around Utah State. Fortunately, with a new president and a new administration, we are good hands, but as that president was coming in an audit prior to his arrival was being conducted, and that audit is, and its results here, have now been presented towards the legislature and allow us a better roadmap to not only make Utah State successful as a result of our efforts, but all institutions of higher education. This bill simply codifies many of the recommendations of the audit. It clarifies the role of the president and the various trustees. It talks about a variety of other policy corrections that need to be made so that our flagship institutions and are even greater than flagship institutions like Utah State, uh, can be successful moving forward and allowed to be, to achieve all that we expect them to achieve. So with that, Mr. Speaker Prote, I might yield to any questions.