S.B. 249 Public Employee Negotiation Amendments: transcript

Senate Revenue and Taxation Committee, Feb 11, 2026

1. Committee chair53:00

   We'll move on to the next item, Senate Bill 2 49, uh, public Employee Negotiation Amendments. Senator Hinkins, welcome to Rev Tax.

2. Sen. David P. Hinkins53:17

   Thank you Mr. Chairman. And I appreciate the opportunity to present, uh, Senate Bill 2 49. Uh, I have with me, uh, Mr. Brad Asay, if you'd like to go ahead and

3. Brad Asay, President, AFT Utah53:38

   Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I'm Brad Acey. I'm the President of a FT Utah and the Executive Director of Acme Local 10 0 4. Uh, we've been working on, and me specifically, we've been working on this bill for a decade now, since 2016. It was drafted from research and language found in legislation from states across the union. It also mirrors the law and established policies and procedures in the US National Labor Relations Act and Board in our Utah State Constitution. Article 16, section two. It states, the legislature shall provide by law for a board of labor, conciliation and arbitration, which shall fairly represent the interest of both capital and labor. The board shall perform duties and receive compensation as prescribed by law. So with that in the Constitution, uh, HB two, uh, SB 2 49 establishes the Labor Relations Board. Uh, the purpose of the board is to manage work related issues between the public sector employees and employers. The bill establishes management rights of public employers and makes sure that those are clarified. It creates protections for public employees regarding self-organization. The bill directs the LRB to investigate unfair labor practice complaints. Currently, labor disputes in the public sector often end up coming up here to the legislature. The NLR, the LRV Labor Relations Board would have authority to handle these issues, saving time, effort, and taxpayers money if it was handled at that board level. Uh, the bill sets requirements for labor organizations towards employees. That's important to note here, because if there is a labor organization that is not treating employees justly fairly, which we've heard in arguments throughout the last couple of years, those employees and that group can take that complaint to the Labor Relations Board, it can be investigated there. And it does hold, uh, labor organizations and leaders accountable for how they treat employees and treat their members. So that's important to note. It sets, um, it defines procedures for representation, recognition, and elections. So this fills it all out and, and puts it out there on exactly what that would look like, how representation would be chosen. And, uh, that would be decided by the board. It defines procedures for employees to file petitions. It establishes procedures for hearings, arbitration, and mediation. In labor disputes. This bill defines what shall be contained in a collective bargaining agreement. And it also allows employees to decide which organization they wish to represent them in. Collective bargaining established the process for gaining that representation. So for us and all the work on this over the last decade, this bill is a solution to many of the concerns, arguments, and issues that have arisen in the past few years. In our general legislative and interim sessions. Again, for what we've, uh, went through last couple years, uh, this bill and the research that I've done does answer all those questions, those concerns on all sides, uh, in these public employee and union labor disputes and some of the issues that we've had. And, uh, this concludes my presentation, but we are open for questions. I, I would just like, I would just like to say, you know, uh, this is a state's rights bill in my opinion, that, uh, rather than using the national Labor, uh, board is in Denver. And, uh, the cost that it is to the employees, employers, and the state of Utah, that it's a time that we have it here in Utah, that we can do it here in Salt Lake City or, uh, a location that's close to, to our state and be able to settle things Utah way instead of a national way. And I think that's very important to, to our employers and employees here in the state of Utah. So with that, uh, we're, we're open to questions.

4. Committee chair58:01

   Okay. Thank you very much. I'll bring it to the committee for questions or clarifying questions on the bill. Seeing none, we'll take you to the public for public comment. Okay. Please come forward, make sure you sign in.

5. Sean Crossland, AFT Utah College Council58:18

   Uh, Sean Crossland, uh, a FT Utah College Council, local 47 38. Uh, I have been a, a public employee in higher education for the last 15 years. Uh, and, uh, Mr. Chair, to your point, this is the first time I've, uh, actually been able to be a, a fan of a piece of legislation up here. Uh, I'm excited to say that, uh, I feel like this is really good policy. Um, I, uh, as I was thinking about, you know, uh, how to, how to frame, uh, what I think is most important in this piece of legislation, uh, I would say that it resonates deeply with, uh, the beehive state, right? Our motto is industry. Uh, and this is a pro industry, uh, piece of legislation. Um, as a, as a public employee, uh, I can tell you I have experienced the fear of retaliation, uh, for, uh, standing up for what I believe to be, uh, the right thing to do in my place of work. Uh, and I have felt a lack of the opportunity to, uh, have those concerns be addressed in a meaningful and substantive way. So, uh, with that, I will just say, this is great legislation and, uh, hopefully it moves forward for more debate.

6. Unknown speaker59:36speaker not certain

   Do you mind if I ask you some hypothetical specifics?

7. Sean Crossland, AFT Utah College Council59:40

   Absolutely. Um, I mean, I mind, no, I'm just kidding.

8. Unknown speaker59:42speaker not certain

   Yeah. Is there, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to dig in a little bit to you. You felt like, uh, maybe you can use the example as maybe another employee may have felt this way. But is there a, uh, you know, help me understand where, you know, something happened, you, you weren't happy and you didn't feel like you had, uh, the ability to redress the concerns that you came across.

9. Sean Crossland, AFT Utah College Council1:00:04

   Sure. Uh, so, uh, Or hypothetically, another employee, Hypothetically, um, uh, I work at Utah Valley University. Mm-hmm. Um, and I will say, uh, uh, as you may imagine, uh, the last, uh, eight months have been incredibly challenging, uh, to be a professional educator, uh, at Utah Valley University. Um, I cannot count for you the number of times that I have heard a colleague and or myself, uh, say that, uh, I am fearful for how I will be retaliated against for, uh, making public comments or, uh, addressing things that I feel urgently need to be addressed. So, uh, is it in an educational environment or is it like you're outside of your environment and, you know, outside the institution and your personal ability to speak? Or like social media or something like that? Is that All of the above? I would say, um, and, uh, you know, to, to the extent that, uh, my wife is also a public employee. She works for the Salt Lake County Health Department, uh, which is also a challenging time to be a public health employee. Uh, and so yes, in an educational setting and also in a public setting, uh, but specifically in an educational setting, um, our, our capacity to address the things that we see directly as, um, you know, as faculty, as members who work directly with our students, um, is severely limited, uh, and continues to be severely limited. And I believe a labor relations board, uh, would, uh, absolutely expand our capacity to, to do the work that matters, right. As a public employee, uh, we choose careers, uh, based on our belief that we have something to contribute to our communities and to society. Uh, and, um, that doesn't always get reciprocated in our, uh, places of employment.

10. Unknown legislator1:02:08speaker not certain

    Yeah, I hear you. Greater sympathy. I could not have.

11. Committee chair1:02:12

    Thank you. Thank you. Next up. Thank You.

12. Kory Holdaway, Utah Public Employees Association1:02:25

    Thank you, Senator. My name is Corey Holdaway. I am representing the Utah Public Employees Association. Uh, UPAA board has not taken a, uh, formal position on this bill as of yet. Uh, however, that said, creating a state labor relations board for public employee issues may be a benefit, uh, for state employees and grievances that may come forward. Um, we just want to thank Senator Hinkins for his years of support of, uh, state employees and, uh, um, uh, look, look forward to, uh, the disposition of this bill.

13. Committee chair1:02:58

    Thank you. Next step.

14. Karson Eilers, Utah League of Cities and Towns1:03:05

    Uh, thank you Mr. Chair again. Carson EERs with the Utah of Cities and Towns. Our policy committee has not taken a position on this bill yet, or even contemplated it yet. Um, that said, we've heard some, some initial concerns about the impacts of, um, more public unions and what that fiscal implication looks like, particularly in a year where there's a lot of conversations about limitations on property tax increases and on local government budgets in general. So, um, we would suggest that if this body feels, uh, intends to move forward with this proposal, um, that there be some kind of interim study or some more extensive study to look at the broad sweeping, uh, fiscal implications on local government employers. Um, so again, not a, not an official position, but that's our, our suggestion. Thank you.

15. Committee chair1:03:48

    Thank you. Does anybody else Oh, please come forward.

16. Britt Miller, Teamsters Local 2221:04:00

    My name is Britt Millard. I'm the President of Teamsters Local 2 22. Uh, I have feet in both worlds, the public and the private union and employee environment. Uh, this deliberative body has done a lot of, uh, wonderful policy for Utahans over the years. But one of the issues we have not yet addressed directly is the labor relationship between employees and employers. And without a structure to help us navigate any disagreements that we can't resolve on our own, we're left to our own devices. Uh, previous speaker had mentioned that the concern would be increase in public unions. What a labor relation board does is it gives the employees an opportunity to settle issues with either their employer or their union. I mentioned that I come out of both private and public, uh, unions because on the public or the private side, we operate under similar constraints and rules, uh, that the, uh, labor Relations Board being presented here today provide, putting this into place helps us navigate that. It's not some massive win for unions that's gonna open the door. It's not the dessert at the end of the meal. This is the vegetables that we need to keep the system moving healthy. We have, um, seen in recent years concerns that were expressed about how unions represent their people. And the structure that's being offered today requires unions to be responsive to their members. And I think that's very important because I have 4,500 members and I try to be responsive to their needs 'cause I represent them. And I think, um, at the end of the day, what this allows is resolution to the ever conflict driven reality between those who hire and those who work. And it does it in a reasonable and systemic method that is, uh, brought up in the, the Utah environment. And it's run by, uh, local folks. And so the teamsters are very comfortable with this. And, uh, we believe that these are the things that we need to do. Uh, everybody's work a little bit better. Thank you. Thank You very much.

17. Committee chair1:06:30

    Okay. Is that anybody else for public comment? Okay. I'm gonna close public comment now and bring it back to the, oh, sorry. I do have one person online. I'm gonna reopen public law. Uh, I want a person online. What's the name? Sydney Oshe. Sydney Oshe. Please turn your camera. Thank you very much. Go ahead, Sydney. Yes.

18. Sydney O'Shay, AFT Utah USU chapter1:06:52

    Thank you for giving me the opportunities to comment. My name is Sydney osha. I am the president of US, U'S chapter of the Utah College Council with the American Federation of Teachers Union. And I am just speaking today in favor of this bill. Um, I urge you all to support its disposition out of committee. Um, I echo the comments of previous speakers. Um, uh, this bill, in my opinion, would have no bearing on the growth of unions. A bill like HB 2 67 from last year would have more, would be one that would shape, um, whether unions would grow or not. But this one just provides a structure for existing unions, um, to operate. So I, I would say that that is not a concern that, um, I would weigh today. Um, I also would echo the comments of Sean, uh, as I am a, a professor at Utah State University, though I'm speaking to as a union rep today. Um, and I have experiences, similar concerns as to what Sean has experienced and so have my members. Um, and so what this bill allows is a structure for us to handle disputes in a way that meets best practices and procedures that are acceptable to both employers and public employees. Um, so this really is a win-win for everyone. Um, so I guess that's where I'll end today. I just urge you to support this bill. Thank you.

19. Committee chair1:08:13

    Thank you. Okay. Uh, that concludes public comment. Thank you very much for, uh, your participation. Um, we'll now bring it back to the Committee for action on the bill. Senator Escamilla.

20. Sen. Luz Escamilla1:08:27

    Uh, thank you Mr. Chair. I, if it's okay, I wanna make a motion that we recommend SB 2 49 public employee negotiation amendments to the floor.

21. Committee chair1:08:37

    Okay. Would you like to speak to that?

22. Sen. Luz Escamilla1:08:39

    Yes. Thank you. I, I appreciate the good senator bringing a process to this conversation. I think we've, we've already, as a body, have gone through trauma after what happened with, um, how difficult it is sometimes to handle, even if there are disagreements, sometimes we need a mechanism to have, um, you know, uh, workers and the ability to have these communications in place. I think this is a, a really proactive approach to get us there. And I think it's a great idea. So excited to support this bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

23. Committee chair1:09:13

    Thank you. Uh, any discussion to that motion? Okay. Seeing none, I'll take it to Senator Hinkins for summation.

24. Sen. David P. Hinkins1:09:19

    Well, well, thank you. And I would just like to thank the, our rules, uh, chairman, uh, Senator Fillmore, for allowing this to come to a committee hearing. We're making progress, whether we're, you know, we appreciate the committee for the indulgence of listening to our plea to, uh, help our, uh, union employees, state union employees that, uh, they, they won't have to the fear of retaliation from, uh, employee, you know, uh, the representatives of the state or whoever may their supervisors are, or their coworkers. And, you know, we have the right to speak. We should have the right to work and, and pick the choices. I mean, this is a choice whether you wanna be union or not union. It's, it's opens the door for a brotherhood of union workers and sisters. And so I just think that, uh, you know, we felt that we was beat up a little bit last year, and we just think that this would kind of, may, may put a stop to that where we'd have to, hopefully this is middle ground that we can agree upon, especially having, uh, the state labor, uh, commission in charge of this, uh, you know, labor board. And then it'll be the people would be appointed by our governor and, and con and confirmed by the Senator Ipson. So we know people that's there, that's in the interest of the state. And, you know, the budget pretty much dictates what the wages are in this anyway. And so it's not really an issue of wages, but, uh, a safe workplace. And, uh, we do have people that work in hazardous areas, uh, snowplow drivers and different things that are actually, uh, school teachers that are being now threatened. You know, it's, uh, life threatening instances that they have in their classrooms and stuff. And I think that it's just fair that we, uh, allow them to have the representation that they would like. And so with that, I thank the committee for considering our this bill.

25. Committee chair1:11:01

    Thank you. Thank you.

26. Committee chair1:11:04

    Um, I'll just ask, I, I don't don't know where it's going, but I thought, uh, you know, the one question you may want to look at, depending on where the bill goes, Is, uh, looking at the impact on local governments and just trying to figure out the best way to, you know, plan around that. So, hey, I'll, uh, I'm gonna place the motion, uh, Michelle, I'm gonna do a roll call, vote for you if you'll do roll call.

27. Committee clerk1:11:27

    Go ahead. Yep.

28. Committee clerk1:11:30

    McKay, No. Escamia. Aye. Fillmore? No. Harper? No. Okay. So the bill fails.

29. Committee chair1:11:46

    Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. So for now, the bill fails. Uh, if you want to make amendments work with the committee, there's still opportunity.

30. Sen. David P. Hinkins1:11:53

    Well, I appreciate it.

31. Committee chair1:11:54

    Uh, I guess we'll see you next year, if not sooner. So there's still plenty of time. Hey, we got till midnight on March 6th. You got plenty of time. Okay. We'll work on it. Thank you very much. So thank you for being up here. Okay. Uh, will, did I see Senator Sandall walk in? I did not see Senator Sandall. So I'm gonna move on to, um, let's see. I do see Representative Bolinder. Do I see? Oh, representative McPherson's here. Sorry. Okay. So I'm gonna move on to number four is