S.B. 271 High School Activities Governance: transcript

Senate Education Committee, Feb 18, 2026

1. Committee chair29:29

   Today is SP 2 71 high school activities governance. Is Senator Grover here? Oh, there he is. Okay, go ahead.

2. Sen. Keith Grover29:38

   Come, come up and You got me. Okay. Thank you. Thank you committee and those online for listening to this, this bill, and taking the time. I've got a friend here with me. He'll introduce himself once I get done with my presentation, and then we'll go from there. So, uh, this bill has a lot to do and everything to do with the Utah High School Athletic Association a little bit, but a lot of it has to do with our changing sports environment and the change environment of, of, of inner, of high school sports in general. As we see, um, in the college level, the NIL the last five to 10 years has taken over and things become more competitive. It trickles down to the high school level where obviously you have parents and their students and athletes that are wanting to be in the best schools and be in the best areas, have the best coaches, things like that. Nothing wrong with that, but we're starting to see some problems kind of trickle up from those scenarios more that are a little more magnified than when I used to be an administrator. I used to a school administrator for 20 years and worked with association. And, uh, just the, the intensity level is much higher now. I mean, you've got kids that are tracking into, if you talk football or even basketball, they're trying to get into certain organizations, certain schools, because then they're gonna be two years or a year away from some serious money. And we're talking into the millions of dollars for some of these athletes. And again, nothing wrong with that, but we're starting to see some problems come with, uh, due process and fairness in the process. So this bill is seeking to be proactive and to look for solutions. It's not attacking the association. It's not saying, Hey, you need to do this better. Things like that. Some of those things are already in the press. We see lawsuits. We think those are things already out there. So this bill is attempting to thread the needle. You're starting to see aggressive legislation, like for example, in the house, we receive legislation that says we prohibit, any schools will participate in association of whether that bill advances this session or not. I'm not sure you'll see another bill in the house that's attempting to kind of work its symptoms. This bill is attempting to thread the needle and increase and, and facilitate and, um, invite di dialogue and invite solutions. And again, if you look at the bill, the main PO focus is to put this, the association under the auspice of the State Board of Education. And why would we do that for accountability and enforcement? I'm not trying to, this bill is not attempted to get into the mechanics of the association. It's not attempted to get into to how they're organized. Who takes, you know, the, at the playoff games, who takes the, the faires at the, at the stadiums, things like that. Nothing like that. It's attempting, it's actually asking for accountability of the association for the things that they do. And the state board gets to determine how they do that. Uh, again, the state board has not asked me to run this bill. The association's not asking me to run this bill. It's coming from this, this groundswell that's coming from constituents of mine. I hear comments here and there. We're starting to see legislation, and we're starting to see a little bit of this kind of across the country. You know, North Carolina, Florida, I'm just here in Oklahoma. It's this environment that we're kind of in to try to get this right. So it's not trying to be overly prescriptive, and it is inviting a lot of dialogue. And I don't think anyone's actually too happy with the bill, but no one's too frustrated that either kind of is trying to work that little margin there to, to make sure that parents and students are satisfied with the process that they go through. And then we kind of go from there. Um, I'm gonna go ahead and invite Mark to say a few comments. I've got a lot of different notes, but I think how we come out in the questions too, of, of what we're trying to do.

3. Nathan Crane, Attorney, Spencer Fane33:12

   Yes. Thank, thank you Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nathan Crane. I'm an attorney. I've been practicing law for, I'm sorry, 22 years. Uh, I'm an attorney at Spencer Fa. I'm here today given my experience with the association in representing student athletes and coaches before the association. I've represented, uh, basketball coaches, basketball players, football players, lacrosse, and drill team members, uh, in a variety of different situations, including transfer and eligibility hearings, and in, uh, defending my clients against allegations that have been made, brought against them, uh, by the association. Um, what what I offer is, um, firsthand experience in working through these hearings. And what we have is just a fundamental lack of due process and a fair hearing process. What we have when the association brings allegations, they're brought by counsel for the all for the association. The association then provides a letter to the individual that's been accused, and then you set a hearing. And the hearing is run by a panel of three to five individuals chosen from the association's, executive directors, and their board of trustees. It is chosen by counsel and by the association who those panel members would be at the hearing. Counsel for the association represents the association in bringing the allegations. They also represent the panel members. So what that means is if this were a court of law, the prosecutor who is bringing the charges also goes in the back room with the judges, selects the judge, and then advises the judge on, um, the procedures and how to go about the process. And we just are lacking a fundamental due process. There are things the association does, right, but when it comes to defending yourself and defending individuals made, uh, that have, that had allegations against them, there is no right to discovery. There is no right to, um, be a part of who the panel members are. There is, uh, they don't even swear in witnesses at hearings. Um, there is no rules provided for discovery, and there are no rules on how those hearings are conducted. The rules of evidence do not apply even loosely like you would have in some administrative hearings. Uh, and so I'm here to address and can talk to the process and my experiences in representing clients before the association. And so, in closing, um, I think the rules would have more impetus offender, a state agency like the State Board of Education. I think we'd have a little more, uh, uh, attention to those issues. The state board could put them under their umbrella and be accountable to them as a board is accountable to the voters and to parents. And if you don't have enforcement of some of your policies, especially as we're seeing in in athletics today, then you just don't have rules. It's hard to make sure everyone's taken care of. So that's what the spill is attempting to do.

4. Committee chair36:15

   So does that conclude your presentation? It does. Thank you, chair. Okay.

5. Committee chair36:19

   Uh, let's come back to the committee for clarifying questions. Uh, go ahead, Heidi.

6. Sen. Heidi Balderree36:28

   Thank you. Uh, the question, uh, a question if I may, Mr. Chair. Go ahead. Uh, the question is, uh, how does the USBE feel about this bill? Are they amenable to taking over those duties Comments? It, it, it looks like they're here, so it would you like to come and We can, yeah. Or I can answer that too. I don't know if you're Okay. Go, go

7. Committee chair36:56

   ahead. Yeah. We'll, we'll let you come up.

8. Sen. Keith Grover36:59

   Yeah. Again, the state board is aware of the bill. We've not, I've not met with them personally. I've not constant consulted with them. I would imagine that the, just the things I've heard is that, uh, just logistically it's an additional responsibility regardless of this association situation or any other thing. Um, we do have fiscal note on the bill that will support, uh, the state board in their efforts to do this. So, as far as exactly where they're at, they'll, they'll let you know. They may be in favor, they may not. Again, as I mentioned, the opening testimony that this is right. Threading that middle ground, we're not, everyone's gonna be happy and not everyone's gonna be excited.

9. Committee chair37:32

   Well, so Heidi, we'll let them come up during the public comment part portion. Do you have other questions for the bill sponsor?

10. Sen. Heidi Balderree37:42

    That was it. Thank you.

11. Committee chair37:44

    Okay. Uh, let's see. Someone had their light on. Did you, Senator Rebe or, okay. Okay. Seeing no other comments from the committee, I'm gonna, uh, allow members of the audience who, who would like to speak to this bill. Okay. It looks like we got a crowd. So let's, uh, let's come up two at a time. Uh, state your name for the record and sign in and tell us who you represent.

12. Matt Hymas, Chair, Utah State Board of Education38:17

    Chair. My name is Matt Hymes, uh, chair of the USBE. I represent the State Board of Education. Today. I wanna thank Senator Grover, um, for his, uh, response to what he feels is, is necessary. And also his, uh, I don't know if, I don't know if it's a trust in the USBE, but, uh, we're gonna call it that we'll take a win where we can. Um, the USBE, we try not to take votes of, of opposition too much. We try to, um, uh, see what comes through the process. On this one though, it was, uh, a, a vote of, uh, to not support this bill that came from the State Board of Education. Uh, there are many reasons why. I don't know if I have time. You will hear many reasons, um, given through the public comment and including some of my colleagues that represent of course, themselves. But as a board, we have voted to, we have taken a, an official vote not to support this bill. Thank you.

13. Committee chair39:14

    Thank you. Go ahead.

14. Cole Kelley, resident39:23

    Uh, Cole Kelly, and, uh, I am a member of the Utah State Board of Education. Um, I, uh, chair Hymes, uh, Phil fulfilled the role of speaking on behalf of the, the State Board of Education. So I'm gonna simply speak as an individual. Um, my comments reflect to just, um, my own professional experience. Um, but, uh, I've, I've been a coach in the, uh, in the high school system. Um, I coached at Warm High School for 10 years. I coached at American Fork High School for another 15 years. So I've been in the, in the, uh, coaching ranks, um, for over 25 years. Um, also had the privilege of raising athletes and, uh, have had young, young kids that have been very successful, um, at the Division one college level as well. Um, and, and I, I, I recognize and I appreciate Senator Grover's attempt, um, you know, to bring balance into, in, into the athletics, into the Utah School Activities Association. Um, you know, I, I, uh, I recognize that there are, there are issues that we need to try to address, but, um, I, I, I would, I would encourage Senator Grover, I think before we put a bill forward, I think it's important to talk with important stakeholders like the Utah High School Activities Association, as well as the Utah State Board of Education. And, uh, we've had very little communication on this bill. Very, very little opportunity to have input. Um, and, uh, and I think it's important if, if we're gonna be, um, decision makers in this realm that, uh, that we be included in that process, in that discussion. Um, but, uh, I, uh, individually and just personally, just want to, uh, encourage Senator Grover to reach out to some of those stakeholders and, and allow us to have some feedback. But, uh, uh, at, at, at the present moment, I would speak out against this, this bill as it stands.

15. Committee chair41:24

    Thank you. Thank you. Make sure you sign in.

16. Rob Cuff, Executive Director, Utah High School Activities Association41:33

    Thank you. Rob Cuff from Utah High School Activities Association, executive Director, thank you for the opportunity to speak today. Since 1927, the Utah High School Activities Association has led the development of education based interscholastic, athletic, and fine arts activities that help students succeed in their lives. The U-H-S-A-A is governed by a 15 member board of trustees, made up of six elected local school board members, three superintendents and three principals, representing school districts in areas throughout Utah, a charter school representative, a private school representative, and a State Board of Education representative. The U-H-S-A-A reaches 160 member schools and nearly 114,000 participants in high school activity programs. The organization sanctions 138 state championships in 25 sports, and the activities of music, speech and debate, theater and eSports throughout six different classifications. The U-H-S-A-A, also in partnership with Special Olympics, Utah, conduct student recognition and student opportunities in unified sports in basketball, soccer, swimming, and track and field. The U-H-S-A-A is its member schools. While the staff facilitates and performs many administrative functions, it is the member schools acting directly and through the board of trustees that determine the directions and policies of the association. Proposed amendments to the Constitution and bylaws may be submitted by any governing board of a member school, or any member of the board of trustees. The U-H-S-A-A along with all 50 states, is a member of the National Federation of State High School Associations, or NFHS, which writes playing rules for sports. At the high school level, members of our association have the opportunity to serve on those rules committees. The NFHS also conducts national meetings, sanctions interstate events, offers online publications and services for high school coaches and referees, and serves as a national source for interscholastic coach and referee training. The Utah High School Activities Association currently has a working relationship with USBE. The U-H-S-A-A provides a verbal report accompanied by a written report annually to the state board, including the association's annual budget, a schedule of events scheduled or facilitated by the U-H-S-A-A procedures for the realignment of member schools, any amendments or changes to the association's constitution or bylaws, and any other information requested by the state board. The U-H-S-A-A has enjoyed a great relationship with USBE and providing opportunities for thousands of students to participate in extracurricular activities. Again, in closing, the Utah High School Activities Association was formed by local school districts to prepare postseason competitions and govern eligibility of participating students. Its Board of trustees is comprised of local elected school board members, superintendents, principals, a charter school representative, a private school representative, and a State Board of Education representative. Thank you.

17. Luke Rasmussen, Superintendent, Ogden City School District45:06

    Thank you. And I'm Luke Rasmus, and I'm the superintendent for City School District, as well as the chair of the board of trustees for the High School Activities Association. And I just wanna reiterate what Rob said. I mean, thi this, this organization is comprised, and it starts with the schools, and it starts with coaches and athletic directors and principals and superintendents and, and executive committee members and board of trustee members who all have the best interest of doing what's best for kids. And that's where this starts. And we all try to make those decisions. And it's very complex from the smallest one, a school in the corner of Utah to the biggest six A schools with 3000 students trying to look at compe competitive equity, and what we can do best for schools, and what we can do best for competition. And it's a very, very complex process when you try to govern that many schools and that many sports. And we try to do the best we can to get things right, and we try to listen to people and listen to stakeholders. Transfers are complex. It is hard. And, and just like you guys, you guys are all trying to do the best you can for the state of Utah collectively. Not everybody likes the decisions you make, but you're trying to do the best that you possibly can with what you have and the information that you have. And that's what we're trying to do. And I think the biggest thing is, is we're open. We're ready for communication. We want to talk, we wanna sit down. We have not been talked to about this bill. We haven't been consulted with. Nobody's came and sat down and, and the problems. And I think if you dig into this, you'll find that it's coming from a very small minority of people for a very specific reason. And this is not the consensus across the state or what the public or what our schools want or need. And so, I just would say, please let, let's, let's have communication. Let's talk about this. We have plenty of time, um, in the summer and different, different times when, when people can come sit down and understand some of the complexities so that we don't get to this point where legislation has just kind of dropped at our lap. And we haven't had a time to even talk or consult or work through some of these issues. And that's, that's what I would say. So thank you.

18. Committee chair46:56

    Thank you.

19. Carol B. Lear, resident47:05

    Yeah. Oh, these chairs don't move really readily. Um, my name is Carol Lear, and I am a, currently a state Board of education member. Um, I'm not speaking for the state board. Matt did that very well. I'm speaking for myself. I've had extensive experience with UHSA in a variety of ways. In some ways this may be the dueling attorney approach because, um, most recently, well, currently I am the state board liaison with the Utah High School Activities Association. And I think, um, Rob C under sells the situation when he says, we can, we report annually to the state board. There is a, a message from me to the state board almost every month about issues that the High School Activities Association has and that it would like in, in, uh, information from the state board on those issues. I've also, before I had this job, I represented, uh, high school athletes also before the, uh, U-H-S-A-A and I, my experience was very different than Mr. Crane's. Um, my experience is that it was an administrative procedure. Certainly there's not, um, a lot of weighty rules of evidence. Um, but I, I did find that there were many times when I, um, was concerned that it was second or third hand information, that that was not, uh, accepted. I found the panels very fair. I was able a couple of times to channel, to challenge panel members who I didn't think would be, um, objective in their decisions. I was not always happy with the outcomes. I probably represented 25 to 30 athletes for different fam and their families for different reasons, some of which were transfers. Um, and like I said, I wasn't always happy, but I felt like the experience was fair. I think this is a tight organization. I've rarely worked with a bureaucracy, and I've seen many in my day, uh, that is so open to, uh, discussing rule changes, procedural changes, uh, fairness in their, out in their overall organization. So I strongly, um, support the U-H-S-A-A as it is. Um, and I don't think putting it under the State Board of Education, which has really is supposed to have an academic focus for students, uh, would be a strong move. And I think we, uh, the board should focus more on academics and not be distracted with a huge responsibility like the U-H-S-A-A. Thanks for letting me speak today.

20. Todd Quarnberg, Utah Association of Secondary School Principals49:44

    Hi, uh, I'm Todd Kornberg, and I represent the Utah Association of Secondary School pr, uh, principles for the State of Utah. And I wanna thank you for allowing me to speak today. I'm having a deja vu experience today, because I don't remember the year, but I was sitting in this exact chair. Howard Stevenson was the Senate rep over the education committee, and myself, Scott Bushman from Murray High School, and Jed Christian from Alpine School District, sitting on both sides of me. There was a proposal for the legislature to take over the Utah High School Activities Association. The three of us spoke out against the bill because we didn't want to put another layer of administration that would certainly affect the students in our buildings. Generations of educators and administrators have been involved in shaping the Utah High School Activities Association. When the legislature elected officials inserts itself into the Activities Association, it feels like it becomes even more difficult. For example, I have been on the Utah High School, uh, activities Association Executive Committee, and also on the 15 member Board of Trustees. In 2017, it was legislated who sits on the board of trustees. There are 15 board members, as Rob mentioned on the board. There are only three public administrators on the board of trustees. My voice represented all five a and six A schools in the state, which was about 45 schools. Another public administrator represented four A and three a. And conversely, another public, uh, administrator that, uh, represented one A and two A schools. The rest of the board of directors is made up of superintendents. And Luke, I'm not talking about you, who, who ha many have been out of schools for a very long period of time, and elected board members from different districts who make high stakes decisions about moratoriums eligibility, transfers, financial direction, and sanctioning sports. Uneducated decisions can cost districts a large amount of money to create practice and game spaces, higher coaches and staff security for emerging sports. My voice for 45, 45 large high schools who seemed overwhelming. I believe charter and private administrators do have a place on the board of trustees, but they represent a very small number of schools, and many don't have a full complement of athletics. Private and small schools may have a speech and debate team, but very few of them carry the full complement of activities and athletics. But they have equal voice on the board of trustees. You have rural superintendents who don't face the same challenges. Urban districts ha uh, face and in turn, urban schools don't understand the challenges of transportation and difficulty traveling hundreds of miles for a region game. When I was on the board of trustees, I was constantly being asked in the meeting, in a small whisper from a board member, from another district, how is this going to affect the schools? She had little knowledge or understanding of the issues that face high school athletics. This is just one example where state involvement has limited the school voice decision making process. Please let us keep our small inadequate voice. We currently, that we currently have, whether you agree with me or not, it is athletics in many cases that keep students academically engaged and working towards a diploma. There are four pillars, in my opinion, that make a strong comprehensive high school. And I've been in this business 36 years, so I speak very confidently. Um, we need these four pillars to meet the needs and inclusion of all students. My four pillars are academics, athletics, CTE programs, and performing in fi, fine arts. They are all valuable. And I personally take pride in supporting all four of the pillars. I implore UMEA, the Utah Music Educator Association, to begin preparing for changes in their organization with layers of oversight. I implore all of you to allow us to keep our small voice because we are in the trenches and understand the importance of all of these pillars in education. Thank you.

21. Committee chair54:57

    Thank you. Please keep your comments relevant to the bill that we're talking about. And, uh, we, we do have a limited time, but, uh, i, I, I want to hear all people's voices too. Is there anyone else that's gonna testify? Okay, go ahead.

22. Nicole Wigton, resident, Draper55:16

    Good morning, chair and members of the committee. My name is Nicole Wigton from Draper. I'm a parent and I have three kids who have gone through Utah high school sports, two graduates, and one current athlete. And I'm here to ask you to vote no on SB 2 71. This bill will cost more than $800,000 per year to replace something that already works. The fiscal note shows SB 2 71 will cost $864,200 ongoing to create a new office of intergalactic activities inside USBE, even though we already have A-U-H-S-A-A, a member funded association that governs, governs high school sports today at virtually no cost to taxpayers at the same time, this bill asks for nearly a million dollars for a new office. The legislature has asked the State Board of Education to cut 5% of its budget cuts that would impact mental health services, dual immersion and support for students with disabilities. How does it make sense to create a nearly $1 million duplicate agency when these core student supports are on the chopping block? I will admit U-H-S-A-A is not perfect. My husband and I were recently talking to one of the, uh, SSA's employees about what they could do better. And enforcement was top of the list. They simply don't have a budget to do all the enforcement. They like. That raises an obvious question. Why not use a fraction of this fiscal note to fund an enforcement armed of U-H-S-A-A rather than replacing a working self-funded system with an expensive state bureaucracy for families like mine? This is not an abstract debate. I've watched my own children and many of their friends and teammates live through the fallout of transfers, transfers and instability. Teammates live mid-season for better opportunities. Team chemistry collapses and community investment disappears. When roster turns over every year. Kids absorb the lesson that when things get hard, you don't work through adversity. You just leave. High school sports ought to be about teaching commitment, loyalty and community showing up for your school, your classmates in your neighborhood. SB 2 71 moves us towards a system where kids are treated like free agents and adults can shop them around from program to program. That is not the educational mission we signed up for as parents. There is also the question of why this is happening. Now. In the last couple of years, U-H-S-A-A has taken high profile en enforcement actions, including sanctions against a private, a private school for basketball, recruiting violations and admitted lack of institutional control with probation fines and coach suspensions. And shortly after, we now see a cluster of bills HB 360, HB 2 93, and now SB 2 71, all changing and undermining the role of U-H-S-A-A as a parent. I can't ignore the suspiciousness of this, of the timing of this. If the true goal were to help our kids and to improve how U-H-S-A-A operates, we would be looking at narrow targeted fixes to real problems, clearer due process, better communication bender, better funded enforcement. But instead, SB 2 71 is a sweeping governance overhaul that moves control from member schools to a new state office with a significant ongoing price take for taxpayers and potential for lack of transparency. That's where government overreach comes in. And for decades, Utah has had an activities association governed, governed by the schools themselves. SB 2 71 pulls the authority up into state government creating a new bureaucracy to do what educators and local boards are already doing together. It invites more politics into every eligibility dispute and every rule change. And it does add cost. As a parent, I want less politics in my kids' sports, not more. I want leaders focused on classroom fundings, keeping counselors in school and supporting teachers, not building a new office to micromanage games and rosters for Salt Lake in, in the communities. So I leave you with three simple questions. If we're cutting education budgets by 5%, why are we spending nearly or asking to spend nearly 1 million a year to duplicate an office that's already working? If enforcement is the concern, why not invest in improving UHSA instead of building a new bureaucracy over the top of it? And if this is truly about kids, why does it look so much like a government takeover, arriving right after a high profile sanction for fiscal responsibility for the integrity, integrity of high school amateur sports? Let me say that again. Amateur sports. Okay. And for the wellbeing of our kids in the communities across Utah, I respectfully ask you to vote no on SB 2 71.

23. Committee chair1:00:00

    Thank you. Thank you. Go Ahead.

24. Kim Monkres, Principal, Crimson Cliffs High School1:00:04

    Uh, thank you for this opportunity today. I'm Kim Mons. I'm principal of Crimson Cliffs High School in Washington, Utah. And my perspective on this issue is shaped by 25 years of service within the U-H-S-A-A framework. I've served as a student athlete, a coach, a parent, an athletic director, an associate director at U-H-S-A-A, and currently as a principal serving on the executive committee. It's common misconception that the UHSA a's a distant governing body, in reality, the 160 member schools are the U-H-S-A-A. We have a voice. Every policy eligibility requirement and competition standard is driven by the collective voice of these schools. Combining the U-H-S-A-A with the USBE would not only silence that voice, but would be a disservice to our coaches, our student athletes, to parents, and to our community. Our current structure works because it's specialized and accessible. We have direct representation. Our ec, our, um, adec, our athletic directors, um, board are examples of this. Our board of trustees, when we have concerns or questions we don't face, uh uh, we don't have a faceless bureaucracy, we know exactly who to call at the office and how we can get help. We know the staff, we know they will listen to us, and they, we know that they will help us with our concerns. We know our executive committee members, we know our BOT members, and they hear our concerns. As a principal, I rely on USBE for academic excellence and U-H-S-A-A for Athletic and Activity Excellence. These are two distinct monumental missions. Merging them would create an entity too large to be effective, ultimately resulting in slower response times and less oversight for our programs. We have a proven partnership with USBE. As you heard earlier, we have an immediate seat at the table. If a school has an eligibility question, sports specific question, we know right where to go. The workload is distinct for both of these organizations and should be separate. Having been a former associate director, I know the 24 7, uh, demands that that job requires. I received calls at all hours of the day and night, and many issues are time sensitive, all in the name of student athletes and what's best for student athletes. That quick response time is so essential. Deep institutional knowledge with our BOT and man managing 160 diverse schools. As Luke mentioned, from the smallest one A to the largest six A. They have the experience to help us through these, uh, these changes. As Senator Grover brought up, I love the word proactive. I love that he is thinking ahead and thinking of being proactive. But legislation is not the way, that is not proactive. Collaborating with the U-H-S-A-A, the Board of trustees, the BOT, the State School Board Association to change any landscape and create an alternate way to hold hearings, if that is what one of his, um, issues is. We don't need more rules. Maybe we need to refine rules, but that needs to come with the collaboration with the entities involved. The weight of governing eligibility, sports specific rules and state tournaments is enormous, requires a singular focus. The UHSA is built for this specific purpose. Please do not break a system that is delivering for our students. For these reasons, I strongly urge you to vote against Senate Bill 2 71, and I respectfully ask that you allow the U-H-S-A-A Board of trustees to continue its mission of leading our schools and collaborating. Collaborating with the school board.

25. Ryan Bishop, Principal, Wasatch High School1:03:59

    Good morning. I'm Ryan Bishop, the principal at Wasatch High School in Heber City. It has been mentioned that State Bill 2 71 is to invite solutions and dialogue. That's an absolute fair ask to continue to strengthen the communication and reporting of the U-H-S-A-A and its member schools. However, from a member school perspective, like been said today, the request would be to allow the UHSA office and the already established board of trustees to remain the entity responsible for governing edu governing education based activities and policies in the state of Utah while continuing to improve transparency and collaboration. The State Board of Education has been mentioned many times this morning will be inundated with u the U-H-S-A-A under its pre purview. This bill would be contrary to the very thing it is trying to solve. Please allow the U-H-S-A-A to continue to be the entity governing education-based activities in the state of Utah. And vote no to state Bill 2 71. Thank you.

26. Committee chair1:05:11

    Does anyone wanna speak in favor of this bill?

27. Ryan Judd, Athletic Director, Waterford School1:05:16

    Okay, Uh, if I could, my name's Ryan Judd. I'm the Athletic director at the Waterford School in Sandy. Um, I'd like to take just a quick moment to express my voice and hopefully the voice of many other numerous, uh, small, private and independent schools who have had a place at the table at the U-H-S-A-A over the, over the last, uh, several decades. Um, we appreciate the opportunity, even though we stand outside of the direction of the Utah State Board of Education, we are grateful that we have had a place and a voice at the U-H-S-A-A and we would have concerns that our voice is, is being, and our voice in place is able to, uh, have us still have a place at the table, uh, under the new direction, under the story, uh, the State Board of Education. So we want to lend our support, uh, to the U-H-S-A-A and, and make sure our voice is heard as well. So, thank you.

28. Todd Dawson, Principal, Lone Peak High School1:06:06

    Thank you. Um, I'm Todd Dawson. I'm Principal at Lone Peak High School. I'm also, uh, the Region three chair and serve on the executive committee currently at the Utah High School Activities Association. Also a longtime Utah resident and high school teacher and coach, um, and a parent of athletes. Um, 27 sports seasons in the Dawson Home. 15 for me as a, as a coach. Um, I wanna speak just briefly, uh, to a couple of points that were made as the bill was presented. I think, uh, some valid, uh, conversation, uh, should follow and could follow as a result of, uh, what's been brought before you today. Um, but, but that, as has been mentioned by, uh, chair Luke Rasmussen, uh, we're open to conversation and to dialogue. And we believe that, uh, having that dialogue first and foremost, would be, uh, appropriate prior to, uh, passing legislation. I do wanna speak, uh, just briefly about my experience as a panel member. I heard that spoken, uh, here at this table earlier. Um, I have served as a panel member multiple times, uh, for hearings, both initial hearings as well as appeal hearings. Um, at no time was I instructed on how to rule, or, uh, was, uh, ever hampered by, uh, my own judgment according to, uh, the matter at hand, in one case, uh, in an appeal where some of the facts and testimony seemed a little unclear to me. Um, panel members and I elected to interview every head coach of that specific sport in that specific region, which, uh, took a lot of time, but it was due diligence, uh, necessary to arrive at a, a great, uh, conclusion. Now, while I can't speak to every hearing or every experience that people have had there, um, I do believe that in those settings that we're, uh, acting in good faith and trying to make decisions that are in the interest of the students, uh, in question, as well as the programs and schools that, uh, the association, um, oversees and represents. Um, I am not, uh, in favor of the bill as it's currently written and would ask that you, uh, vote against it at this time. Thank you. Thank You.

29. Committee chair1:08:30

    Uh, one person online. Michelle Barber. Michelle Barber. Hello. Can you hear me now? I can hear you. I need to see you. Can you turn on your camera? Alright, there we go. Go ahead.

30. Michelle Barber, School Board Member, Utah High School Activities Association Board of Trustees1:08:51

    Good morning. I apologize for not being able to be there in person, but I just wanted to echo what a lot of people said. My name's Michelle Barber. I am a school board member, and I sit on the U-H-S-A-A Board of Trustees. And I'm really, uh, thankful for the chance to have this collaboration. I think, uh, Senator Grover said this is, uh, threading the needle. And I think that has been done quite well because a lot of the people who need to work together are all here at the table willing to collaborate and make some needed changes. Um, myself included as a stakeholder from the board of trustees. And I would encourage you to vote no on this and allow us to make the needed changes, um, going forward. So thank you for this opportunity.

31. Committee chair1:09:33

    Thank you. Anybody else wanna speak to this bill? If not, uh, we're gonna come back to the Committee for Action and, uh, discussion. Senator Riebe.

32. Sen. Kathleen A. Riebe1:10:02

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I've played sports my whole life. I love playing high school sports, and, uh, my kids also enjoy high school sports. Uh, over the summer we were listening to, uh, NPR, and we discovered that the NFL almost spends less money on high school sports and clubs. I mean, the NFL spends less money than high schools and clubs. So when we think about what we're all playing sports for, it's competition, but it's also fun, right? We're all supposed to be having fun enjoying it, and that seems to have gotten lost sometimes. So, um, I, I've spoken to, um, Senator Grover about this bill a lot. I think it does address some issues, but I think that we, I heard that everybody's willing to work towards some of these issues. So, um, I think that we can do a lot more with transfers. I think we can do a lot more with academic versus sports. I think we can do a lot more with eligibility. And, um, when I think about like, some of the rules we have, like, you know, the 2.0 rule for kids to play it. Yeah, that's a great idea, but sometimes kids just aren't good at good students, and this is the only thing that brings 'em to school. So I do think there's some leeway and, and there's some conversations to have, but, uh, I think there's a lot more that needs to happen to this bill. We are getting close to the end of session, and I don't really know if we'd be able to hammer all this out. So I, I would make a motion that we could hold this bill and maybe we can hammer out some of these conversations until the next meeting, if we're having another Senate education meeting, and then, um, take it from there. But right now, I just don't think this bill is ready. But I do appreciate these conversations, and I think that everyone here can appreciate this bill for starting these conversations. So my motion would be to hold the bill.

33. Committee chair1:11:46

    Any discussion to that motion? Senator Hankins?

34. Sen. David P. Hinkins1:11:53

    Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would, uh, I, I think I could support that. The only bill I've seen less support for is my Senate bill 2 49 that went down three to one. And so I'd hate to see this get voted down at this time. And so I, I I support that. Uh, motion.

35. Committee chair1:12:13

    I, any, any other comments?

36. Sen. David P. Hinkins1:12:17

    I, I guess I have, I, I have a few comments, and that is that, having said on the Administrative Rules committee, um, I, I have some, uh, feelings, you know, with hearing, uh, about some of the stuff going on at the Athletics Association. I have some feelings that I actually support what, uh, what Senator Grover's trying to do. And, uh, you know, maybe, maybe the bill isn't where it needs to be, but I, I certainly don't want to, uh, vote the bill down. Uh, I, but, but I do think, you know, I, I've gotten texts from a few people, um, that actually would be here to testify, they said, but, uh, they're afraid of reprisals. So I, I don't, I don't know why that would be, oh gosh. But I would say, I would say that, uh, you know, that the, uh, high school athletic association on a think, uh, strongly about, uh, some of the issues in this bill and I, I think they really, uh, should look internally and, uh, and, and maybe, uh, look at their own practices. I, uh, you know, someone, someone brought up the point that there, there's a lot of, uh, that they wonder why there's so many bills. I I think these bills are coming from somebody that wa from people that were involved in those conversations. And so, uh, I, I think the fact that there are a lot of 'em may be that there are things that might need to be addressed. And so I hope, I hope we can do that. Uh, I'm going to support, uh, the notion to hold this bill, and maybe we could, uh, work through some of that. But I'm going to come back to, uh, Senator Grover, uh, for discussion.

37. Sen. Keith Grover1:14:16

    Sure. Thank you. I, I do appreciate the, uh, the motion. I understand what you're trying to do there, and I'm not gonna speak against that motion. I will just say that the, the association does do a lot of good things. They do a lot of great things, and the treatment of students, their families and schools in a fair and transparent way, when adjudicating decisions in the appeals process does need to be improved. That's all there is to it. Putting the Office of Education and position of contract with the association puts public servants and the office upstream and in charge. Such models have been implemented in North Carolina and other states. I think we're gonna see other things happen across the states. And this is something that's we're on the front edge of. And I think we will have more conversation, dialogue. It's been mentioned that we've been here before we're, we have been here before, but like some of the issues we've seen in legislature, this one's now not going to be going away. There's, there's, there's a little bit of a groundswell, and it's, I think all of us are hearing it as Senator Vickers representatives to some degree. And we're looking for solutions. That's what this bill is trying to do, and we'll attempt to do over the interim, if we don't get it through committee or however we proceed, the changes in this bill likely keep the association doing what's always done well and won't be interrupted. And the assumption being made right now is that all duties have moved over to the state office education bill. It doesn't do that. It creates a process where the state office and the school board can agree through memorandum of understanding the duties of the association, and the idea that the public process can be made available to members of the public and administrative in a way that is fair to all people involved. And so that's kind of the crux of the bill. Um, you're hearing opposition and from all of the right people take notes on their comments, frankly, um, we're looking for a dialogue, but we're hearing some of these comments have been made over the years and changes have not. So I'm glad all of these comments are now on the record, and we'll see how people step up to the plate, because all is not well, all is just not well. And like my dad always said, growing up on the farm, hit pigeons. Flutter. That's my

38. Committee chair1:16:20

    Thank you. Uh, we're gonna come back to, uh, maker the motion.

39. Unknown speaker1:16:25speaker not certain

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, yes, please reach out and let's make some betterments. Um, you know, for me, I, I am in the academic world of school and, uh, I, I, I love sports, but I think that we have the, uh, the tail wagging the dog. Sometimes we have people that are trying to game the system sometimes, and that's causing, um, a detriment to our ability to move forward with good policy. And, uh, you know, we have these outliers that sometimes dictate how we deal with the whole, and that's not how it should be. But I think we really can do a betterment. So thank you for this conversation. I appreciate all the work you've done. Let's keep the work continuing. Thank you.

40. Committee chair1:17:05

    Thank you. Um, so the motion is to hold the bill, which means it'll still be in possession of this committee. Uh, we, that means we could bring it back on a future, uh, agenda. So if you have, uh, if, if you wanna work with a bill sponsor, uh, that would be great to have that discussion. And so the motion is to hold the bill, uh, all in favor of that motion, say, aye.

41. Committee chair1:17:33

    Any opposed? I need Senator Mike's No. Okay. Senator Mikel is, no. Yeah. And, and, uh, are you a yes, sir?

42. Unknown speaker1:17:44speaker not certain

    Yes, I'm, I'm a yes, but four to one. Four to one.

43. Committee chair1:17:48

    Thank you. Thank you, committee. Thank you for the dialogue. Okay. So I noticed representative wins here.