H.B. 216 Child Support Calculation Amendments: transcript

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee. Um, I do have a flyer that my intern has. Do you mind if she passes that out, please? All right. Well, um, earlier this year, I had a constituent reach out and, um, she, uh, had recently been divorced and, uh, explained to me that, uh, as they were going through, uh, the decision of child support, um, you know, she was on a, a fairly limited income, um, her husband, uh, qualified for Social Security Disability insurance, and, um, was that made up the majority of his income. And, uh, under Utah Code, I didn't realize this at the time, but we exclude Social Security Disability insurance from being, uh, imputed his income, uh, when calculating child support. And so, in essence, uh, in this situation, her husband showed that he had zero income, she had a modest income, but she now showed that she had to pay child support even though the income that he was receiving from the Social Security disability insurance was significantly more than she was making. Uh, and so we, uh, started to look into this to see why, why this is fair, you know, why would you exclude this? And what I found is that, um, in, in Utah's law, we exclude both social security, uh, in, uh, so supplemental Social Security Income, SSI and Social Security Disability income from Gross Income, one, calculating child support. But we're actually the only state that excludes the Social Security disability insurance, uh, from a parent income, from, from calculating child support. And, uh, as, as Utah is an outlier. Part of the reason is, is that the Social Security disability insurance is compared to SSI, which is really need space, it's meant to just cover the basic necessities. Um, it's, it's based on those that have low income. Uh, alternatively, uh, SSDI is an insurance program that when you work, you pay into it. And if you become disabled, then it is meant to replace your wages. Um, and so those payments are typically higher than what you would see from SSI. Um, and so in, in looking at this and seeing that Utah is an outlier, um, I'm proposing today HB two 16, which as you can see, is a very simple bill. It just excludes the, um, or includes the SSDI when calculating social security, or, excuse me, child support, um, uh, calculations. Now, I, I think it's important to note that, uh, this bill does still preserve judicial discretion in making those child support decisions. So the court doesn't have to include this, but it is on the list of items that they can include when calculating child support. So, with that Madam Speaker, I think this is fair, um, when calculating that to make sure the court has all of the information when making that determination. And I'd be happy to answer any questions from the committee. Thank you. Back to the committee for discussion or clarifying questions.

Thank you. Charles Edwin Ship. I represent myself and my wife. I just wanna say this is really common sense and we commend you, Jordan, for taking the emphasis on this. Amen.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I'd like to do, there's no subs or amendments need to be adopted, is that correct?

Um, I'd like to move that we favorably recommend HB two 16 with a favorable recommendation.

Speak to that? Yeah, I will. Just briefly. Yeah, it, it does seem like it's common sense. Um, you know, you, you think, um, you know, there is a responsibility in child support to, um, make sure that the financial needs, um, of children and, um, uh, the other parent are, are met. Um, this seems like common sense. I don't know why it hasn't been done before. And, uh, I commend the sponsor for, for his work here. So yeah, I support it.

Thank you Mr. Chair. Members of the committee. This is a really simple bill. Um, currently there, um, there are two different types of, uh, very similarly named, uh, income replacement, uh, uh, benefits that come from the government. Supplemental Security income SSII and then Social Security Disability Insurance. SSDI, uh, SSI is a need space program that provides monthly payments to those that are 65 and older, blind or disabled, who have limited income and resources. Whereas SSDI is an insurance program that, uh, everyone's granted that as you pay into social security and you become disabled, then payments come to try to supplement what your income was when you become disabled. Well, for whatever reason, uh, in our code when Imputing child support, we have excluded generally SSDI. Um, and, uh, I had a constituent come to me who, uh, recently was, uh, divorced and, uh, Uintah go, uh, determine child support. And though her husband was receiving close to $6,000 a month, and she made less than that, um, when they Uintah impute the income because of the way the statute read, he showed zero income. She showed some income, and so she ended up owing child support. Um, so we started looking into this and found from the best of of our knowledge, Utah is the only state that excludes SSDI from imputing Income for child Support. And so what you see in, uh, this very simple bill house, bill two 16 is just removing that section so the court can consider Social security disability insurance when imputing income, it still is permissive. So the court, uh, could choose, uh, to not, uh, impute that income. Um, but it does allow the court now to consider that when impeding income. And that is the bill. Thank you very much.

Thank you. I recommend that we pass out with the favorable recommendation house Bill two 16 to the full body of the Senate.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Um, colleagues, um, when calculating child support, there are a number of different, um, uh, measures that the court can use to impute income to one or the other spouses. One of the, uh, areas that is currently excluded is, um, social Security disability insurance. Now, social security disability insurance is a program, it's an insurance program for individuals who have worked and paid social security taxes and then have a severe long-term disability. It is meant to replace their long-term wages. Um, and those typic are a lot. Hi. Those payments are typically a lot higher than what you see for supplemental security income. SSI, which is also excluded. So recently I had a, uh, a constituent reach out that, um, was making a, you know, small kind of meager minimum wage like salary. And, um, her ex-husband had, uh, received receives this Social security disability, uh, insurance. And because it's not imputed in any way, though, he was receiving a much higher amount of money each month, she owed him child support. It didn't make sense, wasn't equitable. So we started to look to see, well, how do other states treat this type of income? And we found that Utah was the only state that excludes SSDI in child support calculations. And so this bill, HB two 16 is a very simple bill. It simply switches that back, allows for the court to consider that when imputing income, again, it, it is at the court's discretion. So if there's other extenuating circumstances though, could those could be brought to the court. The court can take that into consideration. But currently under the, under the current code, they can't even consider that type of income when imputing income. And so, uh, with this, uh, it's, uh, received unanimous support. I haven't heard anyone that's, uh, opposed to this bill. I know there is a another bill that talks about how to impute income when you have an incarcerated individual and they're trying to, to determine, uh, income as well. And I think they're adding this and that bill as well. So that would be a separate bill that we'll hear, hear later. Um, but, uh, just wanted to to bring up that clarification. With that Mr. Speaker, happy to answer any questions.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Pro Tem. Will the sponsor yield

Pro tem. So I just kind of wanna know what that amount would actually look like for like that social security disability insurance thing?

That's a good question and I don't know exactly how it's calculated. I can tell you what I've heard generally is, um, it, it depends on how much money you made before. So it's a percentage of the money that you made before. Um, I know in, in most kind of private areas it looks at about 60% of the income that you were making before in, in furthering that. But if you also have kids, then they add additional amounts of, um, of that insurance that comes to you. So I know in my, uh, constituents case, um, her ex-husband was getting about $6,000 a month in, uh, social Security disability insurance.

Thank You Mr. Speaker Protime. That's crazy.

Yes, thank you Mr. Speaker pro tem. I rise in support of this bill. A lot of times we find, um, I have constituents as well who, whose family, um, are in need. And this said, a parent is receiving social security is abled or is fine, but, um, that then adds up to thousands of dollars, which even at a percentage to the court's discretion would be, would be greatly appreciated. So thank you to the good sponsor for bringing the bail.

I'll waive summation open on house Bill two 16. Child support calculation.